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Metro Police Officer William Mosher testifies about shooting Erik Scott during a coroner’s inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.
By Cara McCoy 
, Dave Toplikar (contact)
Thursday, Sept. 23, 2010 | 8:36 p.m.
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- Shai Lierley on the phone with dispatchers
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- Unidentified caller from within Costco talking to dispatchers
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- Metro Police radio traffic during the July 10 officer-involved shooting that left Erik Scott dead
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William Mosher was one of the first Metro Police officers who responded to the Summerlin Costco on July 10 after an employee called 911 to report that a man with a concealed weapon was destroying merchandise in the store and acting erratically.
As customers were exiting the warehouse shopping club, Mosher, with his gun drawn, watched the entryway.
The employee who had called 911, 33-year-old Shai Lierley, was walking behind the man, later identified 38-year-old Erik Scott.
Seeing the officer, Lierley flagged Mosher down, pointed at Scott and said, “That’s him,” Mosher testified.
Mosher, describing what happened next, said he waved several citizens out of the way. Holding his gun to his chest, he told Scott to turn around; as he did so, Mosher saw the gun in Scott’s waistband.
Mosher said he yelled several commands.
He saw that Scott’s eyes looked bloodshot.
He noticed that Scott appeared to be “out of it.”
He heard Scott say, “I have a gun.”
When he saw that gun “come up,” the five-year Metro veteran fired two rounds. Two other officers also fired, ultimately hitting Scott with seven bullets. Five went into his back.
Mosher’s testimony came as part of the second day of a coroner’s inquest into the death of Scott, a West Point and Duke University graduate who was working as a medical salesman.
Prior to the shooting, Mosher said, he had been told over the police radio that Scott had said he was a Green Beret, had been acting erratically, was throwing merchandise around, appeared to be high on narcotics, had a gun and would not leave the store.
Mosher said the fact that Scott was a Green Beret concerned him as he was driving toward the store because he knew Scott would be trained to use small arms.
He said he was further concerned because if Scott was lying about being a Green Beret, it could mean mental issues were a factor in his reported behavior.
Mosher also said he was worried because it was a busy Saturday afternoon and 1,000 people could be at the store.
Several witnesses testified on Wednesday that they believed Scott was addicted to narcotic painkillers and said he was suffering from depression.
During proceedings Thursday, two recordings of 911 calls were played for the jury. One of those calls was made by Lierley, a Costco loss prevention supervisor.
Lierley was on the witness stand while the call was played and explained to the jury what had led him to call police.
Shai Lierley, a Costco loss prevention supervisor, demonstrates how Erik Scott brought his gun on an officer as he testifies during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.
He said Scott was acting “erratically” in an aisle, pacing back and forth, mumbling to himself.
Lierley said he began watching Scott for a few minutes as he was putting steel bottles into a neoprene bag, tearing them from their cardboard containers.
He said he eventually noticed Scott had a firearm in his waistband, so he and another employee approached Scott and told him Costco had a policy against firearms in the store and he would have to take the gun outside.
“I’m a Green Beret. You need to read the (expletive) Constitution,’” Lierley said Scott told them. “He was angry. He snapped up real quick.”
Lierley also said Scott said he had a constitutional right to carry the gun.
However, Lierley said that Scott did not threaten anyone inside the store; didn’t act violently; and didn’t remove the gun from his waistband. Scott did touch the weapon several times as he walked around the store, Lierley said.
Lierley also testified he was aware that the video recording system at the store wasn’t working. He had contacted Vegas Valley Locking Systems, the local company that provides technical support for the surveillance system, the Wednesday before the shooting. A repair appointment had been scheduled for the following Monday.
Much of the testimony Thursday afternoon honed in on the technicalities surrounding the faulty hard drive that the cameras were supposed to be recording onto.
A Metro forensic multimedia analyst, Brian Wyche, testified that he went to Costco the day of the shooting and was unable to recover any data from the hard drive.
Brian Wyche, a forensic multimedia analyst for Metro Police, testifies during a coroner's inquest for Erik Scott at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010. Scott was shot and killed by Metro Police Officers at the Summerlin Costco store on July 10. Wyche said he couldn't find video files from interior cameras recorded for that day on the Costco surveillance system.
Jason Swords, of Vegas Valley Locking Systems, said the device was brought to his office July 12 so he could further attempt to recover data but said he was unsuccessful.
Metro sent the device, by way of the Los Angeles Secret Service, to Seagate Recovery Systems in Santa Clara, Calif.
David Teigen, who works for the company, testified that on the one-terabyte drive, 600 gigabytes of data were recovered. Much of the data was corrupted, he said. Peter Calos, a Metro homicide detective who was conducting the investigation into the shooting, played some of the video that was recovered for the jury.
The video played shows that a camera zeroed in on the front doors of Costco, where the fatal shooting occurred, was active until it crashed about 2:14 p.m. on July 8, two days before the shooting.
David Teigen, of Seagate Recovery Services, testifies during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.
“This is when the internal drive system fails,” Calos said as the screen went dark.
The camera didn’t record any events from that time until the system was rebooted about 5:30 p.m. on July 10, after the shooting took place, he said.
Wyche testified that he had restarted the machine that day when he was attempting to recover the files.
What was shown was video of the parking lot at about the time of the shooting.
Calos said the video showed the first patrol car pull into Costco. But he said the angle of the camera doesn’t show the doors of the building, which is where the fatal shooting took place.
People are seen running away from the store and into the parking lot at a time that would be in accordance with when shots were fired; however, no footage of the actual shooting, outside the front doors, or from inside the store the day of the shooting exists, Calos said.
He explained how after homicide detectives responded to the scene and began investigating the officer-involved shooting, a number of items were recovered outside the store: Several shell casings, a cell phone, and a 9mm Kimber semiautomatic handgun.
The handgun was still in its holster.
Mosher testified that he didn’t know that the gun was in its holster at the time he fired. He said he owns the same type of holster, and the gun could be “easily fired” while in its holster.
He also testified that he didn’t recall ordering Scott to “drop his gun.” But those commands are distinctly heard on the 911 tape that was played for the jury.
The tape was again played for Mosher, who said it was his voice on the tape. He was the only officer issuing commands, he said.
The following is heard in the 911 call: “Put your hands where I can see them now. Drop it! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!”
“He refused to comply with those commands, to show his hands, or to get on the ground,” Mosher testified.
Scott responded by pulling out his gun, Mosher said. Mosher saw the gun being raised in his direction.
"He was a deadly threat with that weapon in his hand," Mosher said.
Mosher said at that point, fearing for his own safety, fearing for the safety of the other officers and fearing for the safety of the crowd, "I fired my weapon at center body mass."
After Mosher’s two shots hit Scott, Scott took a few steps back and the other officers fired.
“He staggered back several more feet, turned around, then fell on his face,” Mosher testified.
He also told the jury about a 2006 shooting during which he fatally shot a man who was a suspect in a home invasion.
Mosher said he and his partner responded to a call about a robbery in progress. After giving chase to the suspect on foot, the man was able to get in his car. Mosher said his backup partner, also on foot at that point, wound up on the ground. Mosher said he believed the man, who had already rammed into a patrol car, was going to run over and kill his backup officer.
As the man was reaching under the front seat of the car, possibly to retrieve a weapon, Mosher shot and killed him, he said.
A coroner’s jury found him to be justified in that instance.
Steven Novotny was the first person to testify Thursday morning. He said Scott pulled a gun on his dog on March 9 this year. Novotny said the dog had bitten Scott.
“Mr. Scott said, ‘You’re lucky I didn’t shoot you and your (expletive) dog,’” Novotny testified.
Novotny said Scott was pointing his gun at Novotny when the incident occurred. He said he then went to confront Scott about what happened and that he wasn’t fearful about the confrontation “because I was also carrying.” At that time, Novotny was unable to find him, he said.
Scott complained to animal control, which quarantined the dog for several days. Novotny filed a report with police about Scott threatening him with a gun.
Steven Novotny testifies during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010. Novotny said Erik Scott pointed a gun at him and his dog after his dog got loose and bit Scott.
Novotny said he later ran into Scott in a parking lot and offered to pay for Scott’s hospital bill from the dog bite, but Scott left.
A coroner’s inquest is a fact-finding procedure designed to determine the facts surrounding police officer-involved deaths. Jurors determine whether the shooting was justifiable, excusable or criminal and do not have to be unanimous in reaching their verdict.
Scott’s family has been openly critical of the inquest process. Following Thursday’s proceedings, their attorney, Ross Goodman, spoke with reporters about Mosher’s testimony.
“What you heard today was the best that the state has to offer. They cherry picked their witnesses,” Goodman said. “And officer Mosher said a .45-caliber gun was in the holster on the ground.”
Bill Scott, right, father of Erik Scott, talks with attorney Ross Goodman as a recording of a 911 tape between Costco employee Shai Lierley and Metro Police dispatch is played during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.
“So how could he have pulled his gun out and pointed it at anybody? In fact, what you heard today is that Erik Scott was leisurely walking out. He wasn’t posing a threat to anybody; he didn’t make any aggressive movements.”
Goodman said that Mosher didn’t remember what he instructed Scott to do until he was reminded by the prosecutor with the audio of Lierley, who was telling a 911 dispatcher what was happening.
“In fact, he instructed Erik Scott to drop the gun,” Goodman said. “So Erik Scott apparently took out the holster with the gun in it and it fell on the ground.
“Mosher’s going to remember whatever he wants to remember. The fact of the matter was that Erik Scott was surrounded by three officers. He turned around. He was compliant, according to officer Mosher. He was told to drop the gun and he did exactly that.”
Mosher, 38, has been with the department since June 2005. Other officers involved in the shooting are Joshua Stark, 28, with the department since September 2008, and Thomas Mendiola, 23, with the department since March 2009.
Proceedings are set to resume at 8 a.m. Friday.
Sun Archives
- Family critical of process as inquest into police shooting set to start (9-16-2010)
- Attorney for family in police shooting calls inquest process ‘a farce’ (9-16-2010)
- Attorney in Erik Scott case sends letter to judge over evidence (9-16-2010)
- Erik Scott’s family asks to view evidence before inquest (9-9-2010)
- Inquest into police shooting to be broadcast on cable TV (9-7-2010)
- Inquest set for Sept. 22 in police Costco shooting (8-12-2010)
- Metro mails Costco customers to find witnesses in police shooting (8-18-2010)
- Candlelight vigil held in memory of man killed by Metro Police (8-11-2010)
- Planning for a situation like recent Costco shooting not easy for police (7-19-2010)
- Man killed by police in Costco shooting honored at memorial (7-17-2010)
- Metro IDs officers in fatal shooting at Summerlin Costco (7-12-2010)
- Officers fatally shoot armed man at Summerlin Costco (7-10-10)
Wow, the guy let the officer know he had a gun and then without pointing it he was shot!? Only the best and the brightest can be on the force. And the most fit.
The resemblance of Officer Mosher to Curly of the 3 Stooges is uncanny. Couldn't the Sun find a better photo?
Officer Mosher "CAUGHT LYING" and judge ends inquest quickly, more lies tomorrow morning. Mosher stated several times that he did not order Erik Scott to drop the gun and that Erik Scott could not of been following an order from him to drop the gun. A juror asked Mosher why the 911 tape revealed that he did state drop the gun. He stated that he did not "remember" this very important detail! He also did not know that the gun was HOLSTERED, and Erik Scott was merely following orders. Erik Scott followed Nevada Law (CCW requirement in Nevada) by telling Officer Mosher that he had a gun, and when ordered to drop the gun Erik was shot dead while complying. Mosher committed murder by shooting Erik Scott!
This entire situation is a tragedy for all parties concerned! I hope that a full and proper investigation is carried out, without bias on anyone's part, and that a best possible decision is reached as to what occurred.
It seems to me that an unbiased agency should be doing the investigation and holding the inquest so as to alleviate any suspicions of impropriety or bias.
Officer Mosher is a spitting image for Curly of the Three Stooges, and about as bright.
Look at the pictures of Lierley, Wyche, Tiegen and Novotny they all look the same not seriouly telling the truth. You can tell on their faces. How much do Lierley received from costco to testify to free costco from liability. Why using their own forensic to recover the video? Tiegen is one too, how much did you received? And the last Novotny- how come you didn't call the police when he pointed gun on you? Liar!!! And Mosher you are addicted to killing! Once a killer ia always a killer. GO to prison and check it yourself and ask those killers. You are protected by your badge Aren't you.
As I was sitting in the Inquest today, listening to the testimony, I found somethings that I have some questions about.
1. Novotny. He testified that after his lab/pitbull/chow/rott mix dog which weighed about 70 bs, bit Scott, and he found Scott with a weapon pointed at his dog, he went upstairs to his condo and got his 9mm and went back out to look for Scott. He didn't put that in his report to Metro. After he found out that Scott had been killed he contacted Metro to remind them about the previous incident with the dog.
2. Costco Video. Lierly testifed that he discovered the video was not working around 215PM on Thursday July 8. Lierly called Swords from Vegas Valley Locking Systems to inform him of the problem and they tried to fix the system. Both testifed that as part of that effort, they tried to reboot the system and it didn't work. Later Mr Wyche, a civilian computer forensics expert employed by Metro testifed that he was called to Costco around 445PM, Sat July 10. He arrived around 515 and went to the video room. He tried to recover images, but was not successful. He then rebooted the system and it WORKED. Det. Calos who was one of the homicide investigators showed the last recorded video from July 8, and the first video available from July 10 displaying the crime scene. You could clearly see the area where Scott was shot. The video showed the shell casings, a cell phone, and a HOLSTERED 45. Why did the video not working after rebooting on July 8 and did work after rebooting on July 10? Why was the video left running if it was not working during that period?
3. Shooting. Lierly testifed that he pointed out Scott to Mosher. He testified that he saw Mosher touch Scott's right elbow, and that Scott reacted to the touch. He said the he never saw Kollberg in the area of the shooting. After Scott was facing Mosher, Lierly testified that Scott raised his left hand in a surrender position, and was tugging on a 9mm pistol on his right hip. As it came free and he started to raise it, Mosher fired. The first shot hit Scott in the chest and he grabbed his chest and dropped the gun. Mosher testifed that Scott never raised his hands. Mosher said that Scott drew a weapon and Mosher fired as it was being raised. He later testifed that he knew that type of HOLSTER. The 911 record shows Mosher telling Scott, in rapid succession to "Put his hands up. Drop it. Get on the ground, get on the ground." Mosher also testifed that his commands WERE NOT in reaction to what Scott was doing, and that no other officers were issuing commands. Mosher admitted that it was his voice issuing those commands. Both Mosher and Lierly testifed that they were within 6-8 feet of each other.
4. Inside Costco. Lierly testifed that Scott was informed by a manager that the store policy was not to allow weapons inside the store. According to Lierly, Scott quicly stood up, told the manager the was green beret and had a constitutional right to carry the gun. The manager never told Scott to leave the store. In fact, Lierly followed Scott as the went to the front of the store to get a shopping cart and return to the sporting good aisle. According to Lierly, he opened 3 or 4 packages of water bottles and tool the tags off several lunch bags. That was the extent of the "damaging merchandise." Aside from the comments to the manager, Lierly didn't feel that he posed a threat or danger to anybody in the store. He also testifed that Scott never drew a weapon in the store.
Officer Mosher looks hungry...
Once again, in the most simplistic terms
Scott told no guns allowed
Scott verbally abuses employee
Scott belligerent
Scott tears open merchandise
Scott drugged up beyond reason
Scott walks out of store
Officer confronts Scott with "hands up" statement
Scott ignores command, says "I have gun"
Scott reaches for gun (not directed to do so)
Scott pulls gun out, starts to raise gun
Officer shoots.
There is a reason why there were hands up and drop it statements. One followed the other. Hands up was not obeyed. Drop it was not obeyed. He grabbed his gun with his hand in a manner to fire (or what would be perceived to fire)..whether or not his intention was to fire is not relevant. The move he made in grabbing his gun forced the officers to yell "drop it"...which he did not do. He should have NEVER reached for his gun. THAT got him called.
Not called...killed
Tom D. See my post right above yours. Can you answer my questions. I was in the courtroom all day. Did you hear any of the testimony?
"Put your hands where I can see them now. Drop it! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!"
It's impossible to put your hands up, drop it, and get on the ground at the same time...
No one is that talented.
I think this was a really bad day for Officer Mosher.
(that Curly Howard bit had me HOWLING.)
In an actual trial, this would have been an amazing
opportunity for a defense attorney.
Novotny's testimony is irrelevant to the issue at hand
The video is corrupted. Are you suggesting there is some type of JFK conspiracy with Metro, Costco, video lab, DA all lying and covering up. Please. If that's your angle, we are on different planets. Mine is Earth.
Lierly did NOT say Scott was "surrendering"..you are lying. After his elbow was grabbed, he spun around jerking his right arm as his left arm was raised by the motion of his spin. Lierly was also clearly intimidated and probably afraid to escalate the situation as Scott had already acted angrily by announcing "I'm a green beret, go read the fcuking constitution"...I would do the same. Not escalate the situation. Call police and let them handle it. Why make apologies for a guy acting like an @sshole?
I watched the entire day
Bk
Again. The first command is hands up. It is ignored. Scott grabs for gun. Told to drop it, get on the ground. He fails to heed all 3 commands with the first ignore being the worst. That got him killed.
Ignoring the first command and reaching for his gun got him killed...my error
@cashew
The man was instructed to put his hands up. Your argument that he took the gun out to diffuse the situation is assinine. Anyone should know first and foremost you HEED an officers command. You do not take a gun out when not instructed to in the face of a policeman. No CCW class instructs you when you are commanded by an officer to put your hands up to disregard that command and pull the gun from your holster.
If Novotny testimony is irrelevant why was he called to testify by the DA? They seemed to think it was important.
As I listened to the testimony in the courtroom by Lierly, he testified that Mosher grabbed his elbow, that Scott pushed his elbow back and forward to remove the contact. He later turned to face Mosher, and that is when he raised his left arm to shoulder level, with the arm bent 90 degrees at the elbow, palm facing Mosher. Last time I looked, that is usually accepted at indicating that he was giving up. Mosher in his testimony said that he never touched Scott.
The point that I am trying to make about the video is why did rebooting work on Sat, and not work when it was tried 2 days earlier. The hard drives have no files written to them after 215 on Thursday, July 8 to 530 on Sat, July 10, yet there is an empty folder for July 9, with no data. The only way that file could exist is for the recorder to be on. Why was it left on if it didn't work, and Leirly knew that it didn't work. Based on the view that was shown of the video at 530 pm, it would have been a perfect view of what happened. I think that Lierly may have been more intimidated by the Costco lawyer sitting in the courtroom.
...or the prosecuting attorney.
I'm really getting a kick out of the conspiracy theorists like Tanker and the Scott family lawyer.
Why would Costco shut down the store at the busiest time of the week if Scott was just leisurely strolling along the aisles? How much money did they stand to lose by taking such an extreme measure?
Why would two low level employees risk felony purjury?
Why would on of the 50 biggest corporations in the world risk destroying its good will and stock prices by engaging in an illegal conspiracy to help Metro?
Novotny's testimony was trying to set in the idea that Erik Scott was prone to irrational acts. Why go on about it? It's not relevant in the sense of what happened in those 10 seconds he was killed, but it does set the stage that this individual had a history of pulling out his gun and pointing it. If you don't believe Novotny, that's your problem. I don't neccessarily have a problem with Erik pointing his gun at the dog if he felt threatened. If he pointed the gun at Novotny, that's a different story and totally wrong. Believe him or not. Your choice. The story may not be 100% factual, but I think the main points are pretty much true.
Lierly never said the intent of the move was "surrender". Like I said, Scott may have spun around so quickly by jerking his right arm and spinning that his left arm came up. Do it yourself. Jerking your right arm back spins your body and your left arm has a tendency to rise. Enough with the he was trying to surrender bullish*t. He wasn't surrendering anything. He was drugged up, erratic and angry.
Again. You want to believe conspiracy with the video. Be my guest. I can't confirm or comment on the complexities of a high tech surveillance system and why it was or was not working. I refuse to believe there was some massive Costco, metro, $8/hour employee, DA conspiracy. You're reaching.
LVLawDog
100% agree. The backlash to Costco would be beyond catastrophic if this came to be one giant conspiracy. Costco is going to surrender their image to protect ONE store and employees in the far reaches of Summerlin, NV.??
Risk their worldwide reputation, business, partners and everything they've worked for to illegally protect 3 police officers and other conspiracy people. Yeah, let's risk everything and get Shea Lierly to lie for us.
Laughable.
Does that include the fact that Novotny went upstairs and got his gun to go looking for Scott.
Part of the problem is that Mosher testified that he never touched Scott. If Mosher is telling the truth that destroys your theory about how the arm got up. Lierly testified that Scott moved his arm back and forth, and never turned until instructed to by Mosher. Your version doesn't seem to match the testimony I heard in the courtroom.
Again, I know what I saw and heard, and the stories don't match. Nobody can explain how something can not be working for 2 days and then suddenly start working.
As a juror tasked with ruling between homicidal justification and criminal intent, I would be seeking out evidence which suggests a point in time in which a threatening condition could no longer reasonably be "perceived" to exist to justify the continued use of lethal force. Any lethal force taken in the absence of any reasonably "perceived" threat would automatically default to criminal intent.
Based upon the testimony and evidence presented at what point would you be convinced that a "reasonable perception" of threat could no longer exist -- would it be following the fifth shot in the back torso region, seventh shot total, as law enforcement personnel at the scene believed?
: {
Comment removed by moderator. All caps.
The only TOTALLY OBVIOUS fact so far is this;
The Coroner's Inquest process is NOT RIGHT. Just watch a little bit. Think about it.
It's ALL A DOG & PONY SHOW of such a one-sided nature it is rendered completely & totally MOOT.
NO WONDER it always comes to the same conclusion. DUH!
We need a Civilian Review Board.
NOW.
It has come to this; I do not trust the police or the DA to come clean in this affair. I have come to believe that the motive for not being truthful is that the police and DA are protecting their own personal interests, and protecting the city from being sued.
I said Mosher looked like Curly Howard yesterday, in my post at 7:09......
and I'm glad others see the "light".......
in this case, he, Mosher is not as bright as a lightbulb.
I watched the Inquest all day yesterday online. Sadly there is conflicting testimony between the officer and the Costco employee about how Mr Scott was holding the weapon. Shai Lierley stated Scott was holding the butt of the gun which apparently never left its' holster. Yep, I know a holstered gun can be fired and there are specific actions taught as part of the training for a CCW when law enforcement is involved. I would like to know where and when Mr Scott took his training as some courses are way more thorough than others. However, the 911 recording shows a very rapid-fire succession of what I took to be conflicting commands and shots fired-not giving the deceased any time to carry them out. I've lived here way too long to have respect for the process. I expect the result to be that Mr Scott died from lead poisoning...
Here you have a young, courteous Costco employee trying to do his job. He politely tells Mr. Scott he cannot have a weapon in Costco.
He is met with...
"I'm a fcuking green beret, go read the fcuking constitution"
I think I know who the thug is. It isn't the cops, it isn't Costco employees, it isn't the DA, it isn't the witnesses
If Officer Mosher could not tell the gun was still in a holster, how could he be sure it was even a gun? Seems he "assumed" it was a weapon based on the 911 call. Erik Scott did not comply properly with the Officer's commands and probably because he was impaired by all the drugs he was taking but it also appears the Officer's commands contradicted each other and were issued in rapid sequence. It appears Officer Mosher may have overreacted to Erik's movements and once he shot the other Officers shot too.
Totally agree process is not right when the equivalent of the prosecuting attorney is also the defense attorney. The process is messed up.
BUT, the shooting will be JUSTIFIED in the terms of this inquest. The officers feared for their life.
In my opinion, the officers' and their lack of experience and common sense (cowboy behavior) caused the death. Their reaction was unprofessional and ENDANGERED everyone in that doorway, when there was NO CHANCE Scott was going kill anyone as he walked out of Costco.
Scott contributed to the situation by his severe reaction and (possibly) because his common sense was impaired by drugs. -- Bear Arms, it is your right, but with rights come responsibility.
Costco contributed by not being professional enough to simply say "I am sorry sir that is our policy and I will have to ask you to leave the store or I will call the police" -- That simple statement probably would have led to a cruiser rolling and Scott sticking around for a "very active debate on the right to bear arms". Probably a citation public disturbance or maybe just an angry former Costco member going home with his girlfriend would have been the result.
My point is a number of things took this to a place it NEVER should have went and I think the cops screwed up big time BUT, in terms of the three possible inquest findings, it is clearly "justified". Now if we had a video I STILL BELIEVE it would show a calm (yet stoned) man, telling an officer who just grabbed his arm and spun him around "I have a gun on me" and then slowly and calmly hand it to him (still in the Holster). Mosher screwed up big time. But we are not going to see that.....
Just curious, has anyone heard or read if Costco's policy on no guns in the store is posted at the entrance of its stores? If not, that is problematic, especially in the states that allow concealed weapons or open carry.
I believe in this case there was no sign. Costcos policy is no guns in store. It's not brain surgery here. Whether there is a sign or not, when Eriks gun became visible he was told Costco does not allow firearms. No need for him to get belligerent. Anyone who has a CCW permit should know there are places that do not allow firearms and if spotted they will be asked to leave.
I support the right to arm, but I find it ridiculous to carry 2 guns into Summerlin Costco on a Saturday afternoon.
<The man was instructed to put his hands up. Your argument that he took the gun out to diffuse the situation is assinine. Anyone should know first and foremost you HEED an officers command. You do not take a gun out when not instructed to in the face of a policeman. No CCW class instructs you when you are commanded by an officer to put your hands up to disregard that command and pull the gun from your holster>
Thank you, TomD, for your thoughtful and logical posts.
When a police officer tells you to put your hands up, the LAST thing you do is reach for your gun with the alleged intention of diffusing the situation. That is NOT how it works. If you want to live, you do not touch that gun or even make a simple move toward that gun. You get down, with your hands up, as instructed. The police will disarm you to diffuse the situation.
Why can't anyone understand this? Scott was playing big shot here like he was above the law and failed to save his own life by following the cop's instructions. IF he was so smart, being a Green Beret and all, he should have KNOWN BETTER not to touch the gun or the holster.
And to all of you who think there is a conspiracy starting with Metro down to the lowly clerks at Costco - you've all been watching too much TV and movies. This isn't "24" or an Oliver Stone movie. If the deceased was some gang banging drug dealer, you'd all be saying "good job, Metro" and that everyone involved did their jobs without questioning ANYTHING OR ANYONE.
It's the police use of force training that is the cause of this murder of Eric Scott. The police have been primed to kill, and then evaluate a situation, our police have said so. The argument that the police do not intend to kill someone when they get out of bed in the morning has absolutely no meaning, when one understands the training these police officers get. Police Officer William Mosher apparently, unable to think while under stress, gave commands to drop the gun, and then murdered Eric Scott when Scott was compiling with those commands. After the fact, Police Officer William Mosher that he didn't even remember that he gave those commands. Yes folks, we do have a murder. But the people responsible for these murders are those people who drafted and approved the current police use of force policies, the people who provided the training, and those in political and judicial powers who allowed these polices to stand. It is time for the Citizens to call for a change in these "Police use of force", tactics.
Officer Mosher should be on trail for Murder, but instead this Inquest is a smear against a veteran who was gunned down while shopping.
Can't wait for the civil suit. Then we'll get to hear people like Mosher and Paul Blart under questioning from an attorney who actually wants to get to the truth, not just one who wants to keep bad cops on the street.
Det_Munch and TomD;
I agree with some of your points but find it strange that you have a lot of criticism for what Scott did but do not see anything wrong with the behavior of the professionals and their reaction to this incident?
Do you think it is wise for a five year veteran of the force to go running into a crowd with his gun drawn? That will get you fired at most police departments.
What are your thoughts on the actions of the officers and whether those actions contributed to this death?
I say, the police use of force tactics murdered Eric Scott. I say Police Officer William Mosher was unable to perform his duty, due to his own self induced stress as related to this incident. I say Eric Scott is blameless in regards to his murder.
Costco employees seem to support the fact Mr. Scott was irrational and armed with a firearm...and at the very least, ignored commands from the metro officer(s) and raised the firearm in the direction of the officer(s).
We have to support Metro when they're FORCED to do their jobs - I am very sure Officer Mosher's life has changed as he lives with this terrible incident.
The Scott family is reacting as to be expected - but the facts are the facts.
Another thing people should think about: It is VERY POWERFUL being allowed to determine what witnesses are presented and the order in which they are presented. Would anyone's view on this here change if the first day we had mosher telling us "didn't know the gun was still in the holster" following by the 7-8 witnesses that say "he never pointed the gun at the officers"?
Would your brain keep keying on that and use that picture to dismiss the drug use etc.?
It is interesting to consider. I like reading these posts because it gives you a sense of the arguments that will occur in the jury room.
And, in financial news, drug companies announced an unprecedented third-quarter loss of revenue from lagging sales of xanax, morphine, hydrocodone, and "legal" anabolic steroids following the July 10th death of Eric Scott. Drug company spokesman Phil Popper says he attributes the decline in sales to "practices by the LVMPD which directly impacted our bottom line".
However Popper remains hopeful that sales will be back on the upswing next quarter.
"Our company has struggled with these losses before," he said, "Soon after the Metro shooting of Anna Nicole Smith, our sales dropped tremendously. Then they rose again for years, until the tragic Metro shooting of super-star Michael Jackson." Popper didn't indicate whether his company will pursue legal action against Metro, but says his company is "engaging in discussions with the Scott family and attorney Ross Goodman".
The professionals have no idea what Eriks intent is. There is a huge crowd there. They know he was belligerent, erratic, possibly high on drugs. He is armed with 2 guns. What is proper protocol?
Let him leave?
Get in his car?
I think they did the best they could under the circumstances. Erik Scott was the catalyst for this situation. Not the police. He grabbed his gun. He was NEVER told to grab his gun. That got him killed.
If he had only left the guns home. If he had only not acted like a jerk off. If he had only complied with the first request to put up his hands. I was taught to always obey police commands...period. Once he ignored the first command or defied it, he put himself in danger. Then came other commands, commotion, bringing up gun.
I only wish he would have behaved in the store. His behavior led to the events at hand. Not Costco, not the police..
I do not support Metro when they are clearly in the wrong. For instance, traveling a hundred miles an hour down Flamingo without lights or sirens. And when the narc officers lynched Trevon Cole.
But any argued error by Metro in this case is just armchair quarterbacking. Scott's irrational and belligerant actions caused Costco to call 911, and his actions caused the cops to shoot him.
I know he was a good guy. A friend of mine was a good friend of Erik Scott. But he's a guy who thinks so highly of himself that he would tell a lowly Costco employee to essentially fcuk off.
And he was probably driving on the roads when he was higher than a kite. I'm just glad he didn't kill someone in a road accident.
It would be nice if a reporter interviewed an official in charge of CCW licensing and get his/her opinion.
Proper Protocol is to assess the situation to find out if there is danger to the public (SWAT is called in if the person is threatening people inside the store or waving a gun around). There were NO QUESTIONS on the 911 call suggesting it was this level of public threat. Since the individual is NOT threatening the safety of the public, protocol is to ISOLATE him AWAY FROM BYSTANDERS, take him into custody (cuff and disarm him) and then assess the situation.
It is not to draw your weapon and run into a crowd. If the situation called for that response you would have heard the 911 operator ask specific questions assessing it. They were responding to a call of a "jerk off in a store that is carrying a gun and being belligerent". A possible trespass. No where on the call did it seem like the public was in danger. Evacuating the store was a good way to isolate him from the public for the takedown.
They are VERY lucky none of the rounds hit the public. None of these three should be carrying a gun (and definitely my tax dollars should not be paying them to carry a gun). And, I do agree with you; Scott SHOULD NOT have been carrying a gun and the FACT that he was carrying two guns leaves me very uncomfortable (his right under our laws, but I don't like it).
contradicting commands and a holstered weapon. A real court would have no problem figuring this out. My guess is this one comes back as excusable.
Very true JWayne not to mention he was also shot in the BACK numerous times. Look at the picture above of Moshers blood shot eyes...
This heroic peace officer needs to spend less time in the donut shop and more time in the gym. We'll be paying for his hypertension disability soon.
Big fat liar, that's all mosher is. He took another man's life just because he could.
So Mosher was concerned that Erik might have realy been a Green Beret, because he was trained with handguns. He was also concerned Erik might not have been a Green Beret, because then he would have been a liar and mentally unstable. He didn't see that Erik took the gun out WITH THE HOLSTER, but that's not a problem, because the gun can easily be fired while still in the holster (holster with no trigger guard, huh ?).
This is what happens when people have months to come up with lies to cover themselves.
And when was it ok for a cop to be 100 lbs overweight ?
The Scott family Lawyer needs to investigate why Mr. Mosher left his job at a Massachusetts Prison. I am sure it would be usefull in a Civil Trial.
In the words of Dr. Lee, "Sumting Wong Here".
Being shot in the back in the heat of action is not bad, the suspect is surrounded by two or more cops, all aiming at the same person, after the first two shots are fired (you always shoot twice at least) the other follow, specially when the man doesn't go down, no matter where you hit, as long as it is center mass.
Mr Scott had a death wish that day, I'm sorry for his death.
At the end, looks like it's going to be Erick Scott fault, and nobody will take responsability for the shooting that left a lifeless person. Put all the mud over the death, he can't rise his voice to claim his innocence.
It's true that the officer Mosher had been in two shotting before?
I agree with you GMAG39; we need Independent Civilian Review Board (ASAP).
Costco should have stopped him from shopping in the store if he could not fill out paperwork for a membership, seemed like he was on drugs, and was bleeding. The story should have ended there with a manager intervening and asking him to leave for the safety of others.
The officer testified Scott said "I have a gun." this sounds like the truth, when does any individual announce he has a gun with guns pointed at him if he intends to use it. this is exactly what an individual does to prepare to surrender a weapon and alert the person who is arresting them he is about to surrender it. The rest of this officers testimony sounds like something he has fabricated based on past experiences. mixing truth with fiction in an attempt to hide the truth of a act of very poor judgement. As for the video camera not working , this is so reminicent of the case of the Governor Gibbons and the waitress assault incident where the video didn't exist.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was in all caps.
Officer Mosher should fire his make-up assistant. Too much rouge on them chubby cheeks, don't you think?
The bottom line in this case is that no sane would bring two guns to a Costco in Summerlin where kids and families are shopping.That is a recipe for disaster. While he was allowed to carry a gun why would you? He had some deep mental issues and its ashame noone was able to help him with that.
Comment removed by moderator. Name calling.
No wonder the video went missing...
Det_Munch wrote:
<The man was instructed to put his hands up. Your argument that he took the gun out to diffuse the situation is assinine. Anyone should know first and foremost you HEED an officers command. You do not take a gun out when not instructed to in the face of a policeman. No CCW class instructs you when you are commanded by an officer to put your hands up to disregard that command and pull the gun from your holster.
****************
Can you read, the man didn't 'pull a gun' Det_Munch, He pulled a holster that happened to have a gun in it! I know, reading and comprehension are not required by law enforcement, but they should be...
All your drivel here is just a series of BS excuses to justify murder by scumbag cop and his back-up morons...and I for one am not having any part of it.
Go salute Hitler somewhere else...and just keep rambling on my NAZI friend.
Havens, You are an idiot. You cant tell me if someone has a gun in a holster and pulls it and points you would gladly stand there and wait to see what happens? You are a moron along with the rest of you conspiracy theorist. The guy had a gun, reached for it and died. Anyone that has a concealed carry permit knows you dont do that. Get on the ground and let the Police take it from you. If you dont, you might get shot. You dont like the Metro Police then go to the Academy and be one and see what you would do when someone points a gun at you, whether holstered or not! Idiots, go live in some other country!
Hard to pull the trigger in that holster.