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Day 2 blog: Officer in Costco shooting: ‘He was a deadly threat with that weapon’

Costco camera failed 2 days before fatal police shooting


Steve Marcus

Metro Police Officer William Mosher testifies about shooting Erik Scott during a coroner’s inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.

Updated Thursday, Sept. 23, 2010 | 5:29 p.m.

Erik Scott Coroner's Inquest - Day 2

Metro Police Officer William Mosher testifies about shooting Erik Scott during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010. Launch slideshow »

Erik Scott Coroner's Inquest - Day 1

Bill Scott, Erik Scott's father, listens to testimony during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Wednesday, September 22, 2010. Launch slideshow »

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  • Shai Lierley on the phone with dispatchers
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  • Unidentified caller from within Costco talking to dispatchers
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  • Metro Police radio traffic during the July 10 officer-involved shooting that left Erik Scott dead
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5:22 p.m.

Justice of the Peace Tony Abbatangelo has recessed the coroner's inquest for the day. The inquest will resume at 8 a.m. Friday.

5:19 p.m.

Metro Officer William Mosher, one of the officers involved in the shooting of Erik Scott, testified this afternoon at the coroner's inquest.

Prior to the shooting, Mosher said he had been told over the police radio that Scott was a Green Beret, had been acting erratically, was throwing merchandise around, appeared to be high on narcotics, had a gun and would not leave the store.

Mosher said the fact that Scott was a Green Beret concerned him as he was driving toward the store because he knew Scott would be trained to use small arms and tactics. He said he was also worried because it was a Saturday afternoon and 1,000 people could be at the store.

Mosher said he came to the door of Costco with his gun drawn because of what he had been told about Scott.

Mosher said Scott was pointed out to him by a Costco employee. He said Scott's only words to him were that he had a gun.

Mosher said he saw Scott had bloodshot eyes. He told Scott to show his hands and to put his weapon down twice, but Scott wouldn't comply, he said.

Scott responded by pulling out his gun, Mosher said. Mosher saw the gun being raised in his direction.

"He was a deadly threat with that weapon in his hand," Mosher said.

Mosher said at that point, fearing for his own safety, fearing for the safety of the other officers and fearing for the safety of the crowd, "I fired my weapon at center body mass."

He said he shot twice, then stopped. He said Scott didn't fall immediately. Then he heard the other two officers also shoot.

Mosher, 38, has been with the department since June 2005. Other officers involved in the shooting are Joshua Stark, 28, with the department since September 2008, and Thomas Mendiola, 23, with the department since March 2009.

4:17 p.m.

Peter Calos, a Metro homicide detective who was conducting the investigation into the police shooting of Erik Scott, was continuing to show video at the Summerlin Costco this afternoon.

Calos demonstrated that a camera that shows the front doors of Costco, where the fatal shooting occurred, was active until it crashed about 2:14 p.m. on July 8, two days before the shooting.

"This is when the internal drive system fails," Calos said.

The camera didn't record any events from that time until the system was rebooted about 5:30 p.m. on July 10, after the shooting took place, he said.

3:58 p.m.

Video was being shown this afternoon from Summerlin Costco surveillance video cameras recorded the afternoon of July 10, the date Erik Scott was shot by Metro Police.

Peter Calos, a Metro homicide detective who was conducting the investigation into the shooting, was explaining the video, which showed the parking lot around the time of the shooting.

He said the video showed the first patrol car pull into Costco. But he said the angle of the camera doesn't show the doors of the building, which is where the fatal shooting took place.

3:34 p.m.

Brian Wyche, a forensic multimedia analyst for Metro Police, is testifying about efforts to recover the video from the hard drive at Costco.

Wyche said he was called at 5:17 p.m. July 10, the day of the fatal shooting. A Costco employee took him to the video surveillance room, where he looked at the recording system.

He said he met with Shai Lierley, a Costco loss prevention supervisor who testified earlier today, who told him the system appeared to have an error. He couldn't find video files recorded for that day.

Wyche said he tried to go into the hard drive the "back way" to see if he could find the files in a folder.

"I couldn't see any of those files because I couldn't get into that folder. It said 'unknown error,'" Wyche said.

He tried to reboot the system. From about 2:15 p.m. July 8 to roughly 5:15 p.m. July 10, there were no files recorded. Police were called to Costco at 12:47 p.m. July 10.

Wyche said if he would have found the files, he would have downloaded them to a portable flash drive for detectives.

He explained the steps he had gone through with another detective.

"At that point I was done," Wyche said.

3:14 p.m.

Metro Police forensic multimedia analyst Brian Wyche has taken the stand.

Wyche follows a five-minute recess called by Justice of the Peace Tony Abbatangelo.

The break followed testimony from three witnesses this afternoon about the corrupt hard drive at the Summerlin Costco that was thought to have contained a video recording showing three Metro Police officers shooting and killing Erik Scott.

According to the testimony, some files from July 10 have been recovered. The digital files recorder had been reported to be faulty a few days earlier.

It wasn't clear this afternoon what files were recovered.

2:50 p.m.

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Jody Okawaki, a special agent with the U.S. Secret Service, testifies during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.

Afternoon testimony has centered on the corrupt hard drive at Costco that is thought to contain the digital video recording that might show Metro officers shooting Erik Scott.

Jody Okawaki, a special agent with the U.S. Secret Service who is a computer forensic examiner, was the next witness at the coroner's inquest into the July 10 shooting death.

Okawki said she found some files from July 10, but the hard drive didn't contain files on July 9.

She said they took the hard drive Seagate Recovery Service to help recover the data.

David Teigen, of Seagate, said in earlier testimony they were able to get about 600 gigabytes of data from the hard drive.

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Jason Swords, of Vegas Valley Locking Systems, testifies during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.

Jason Swords, of Vegas Valley Locking Systems, said his company received a call from Shai Lierley, a Costco employee, on July 8 that the digital video recorder Vegas Valley had installed at Costco was locking up.

Swords said the drive was brought to him July 12 so he could try to recover the data, but he was unsuccessful at recovering any data.

"There was a physical problem with the hard drive. I could hear it clicking," he said.

Swords said after he couldn't recover the data, he returned the DVR over to Lierley.

2:17 p.m.

Audio problems were plaguing the overflow courtroom for a second time today.

Voices from another courtroom were overriding the audio from the courtroom where the coroner's inquest proceedings were taking place.

The public and some members of the media are in the overflow courtroom. There are only 40 seats in the inquest room and those are mostly being reserved for interested parties, such as Scott's immediate family members, although several members of the media also are in the courtroom.

"This is supposed to be a public hearing. We deserve better," a member of the public watching the proceedings told a court service technician.

The technician said someone had taken a wireless microphone from the courtroom and was using it in an adjoining courtroom. The problem was resolved within a few minutes.

1:50 p.m.

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David Teigen, of Seagate Recovery Services, testifies during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.

Justice of the Peace Tony Abbatangelo has reconvened this afternoon's session of the coroner's inquest into the Metro Police shooting of Erik Scott July 10 at the Summerlin Costco.

Abbatangelo was reading questions into the record that he had discarded that were submitted to witnesses by interested parties in the case, which includes Scott's family and their attorney, Ross Goodman.

The judge was also explaining why he didn't allow each question. Most of his reasons are that they were irrelevant or they had been asked and answered in an earlier question.

Abbatangelo said Friday's session will begin at 8 a.m. and last all day (Wednesday began at 10 a.m., today began at 9 a.m.). He said that based on the pace of the proceedings the inquest will also continue on Saturday, but that it will not meet on Sunday or Monday.

The first witness for the afternoon session is David Teigen, who is employed by Seagate Recovery Service in Santa Clara, Calif., which does recovery work on hard drives.

Teigen was explaining the data he was asked to recover from the Summerlin Costco. The hard drive contains surveillance video that might show the events leading up to Scott being shot by three Metro Police officers.

Officials have said the video was corrupted.

12:38 p.m.

The coroner's inquest in the shooting death of Erik Scott by Metro Police broke for lunch at about 12:30 p.m.

Jurors were told to return in one hour to resume proceedings. The judge and attorneys will reconvene 10 minutes early so the judge can read questions into the official record from interested parties that weren't asked during the proceedings.

More than 300 questions have been submitted by interested parties, which includes the Scott family and their lawyer, Ross Goodman.

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The transcript of a 911 tape is displayed during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.

12:28 p.m.

Questioning of Shai Lierley, a Summerlin Costco employee who called a 911 dispatcher about Erik Scott, was continuing into the noon hour.

Lierley was being asked more details about his account of the events that led to the police confrontation with Scott, and Scott being shot twice in the front and five times in the back and buttocks.

Lierley, whose job is to spot shoplifters, said he thought Scott was trying to stuff items into a neoprene lunch bag to conceal them so he wouldn't have to pay for them.

Scott said another employee, Vince Lopez, approached Scott and asked him if he needed help, but Scott told him he was trying to get items, such as a steel bottle and a cold pack, to fit into the bag.

Scott was drawing attention to himself by pacing back and forth, tearing packaging off the bottles and tossing the bags around, Lierley said. However, Scott did nothing illegal, he said.

Lierley said Scott was approached by employees again when he noticed that Scott had a firearm in his waistband.

Scott's reaction to being told about a no-firearms policy at Costco -- jumping up, saying he was a Green Beret and cursing -- led employees to walk away and make a 911 call, Lierley said.

11:44 a.m.

The 911 dispatch tape of the July 10 shooting death of Erik Scott at the Summerlin Costco was played to jurors today during the coroner's inquest into whether officers where justified in shooting him.

The 911 tape contained the voice of Shai Lierley, a Costco loss prevention supervisor, who was describing to the dispatcher what Scott was doing in the store.

Lierley had testified before the 911 tape was played about the incidents leading up to the shooting.

After Lierley and another manager saw the gun and told Scott he couldn't have a firearm in the store, Scott became agitated, Lierley testified.

"'I'm a Green Beret. You need to read the (expletive) Constitution,'" Lierley said Scott told them. "He was angry. He snapped up real quick."

Lierley, a floor walker whose job was to spot shoplifters, explained to the dispatcher that Scott had a firearm and refused to leave when asked. Lierley told the dispatcher that Scott had told him he had a right to carry it.

Scott told his girlfriend they were trying to take his firearm from him. His girlfriend then told him the store was being evacuated, so the two of them started to leave together, Lierley said.

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Shai Lierley, a Costco loss prevention supervisor, demonstrates how Erik Scott brought his gun on an officer as he testifies during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.

Eventually, Scott began walking separately from his girlfriend and from time to time touched his firearm, Lierley said. Lierley said before police arrived he also noticed that Scott stumbled once as he walked.

Lierley said he followed Scott outside the door and pointed him out to an officer standing at the exit. There also were two other officers outside.

The officer came up behind Scott and touched him on the elbow, Lierley said. That led Scott to pull away, turn and face the officer and lift up his left hand.

Scott's right hand went back to his waistband and he began tugging at his gun, Lierley said.

Lierley said he distinctly remembered the officer continuing to yell, "Sir, drop the firearm." Jurors heard the following in the 911 call: "Put your hands where I can see them now. Drop it! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!"

Scott eventually pulled the gun out and when he lifted the barrel and began to point it at the officer, the officer shot him, Lierley said.

Scott was hit in the chest and immediately dropped his firearm, Lierley said. Scott then fell to the ground, Lierley said.

"Then I just heard a couple of more shots," Lierley said. He said he saw Scott move on the ground and heard more shots. "It was one after another. ... It was real quick, less than a second."

The officer then handcuffed Scott, Lierley said.

Chief Deputy District Attorney Christopher Laurent asked Lierley if Scott was pulling the gun out to hand it to the officer, but Lierley said he wasn't.

During the incident, Scott didn't say anything to the police officer, Lierley said.

As the audio recording of the dispatch call was made, shots can be heard, but it was difficult to distinguish how many shots were fired.

The medical examiner who did the autopsy on Scott said there were two shots that hit Scott from the front and five that hit him on his back and buttocks from the rear.

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The transcript of a 911 tape is displayed during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.

11:01 a.m.

Shai Lierley, a Costco loss prevention supervisor, said Scott was acting "erratically" in an aisle, pacing back and forth, mumbling to himself.

Lierley said he began watching Scott for a few minutes as he was putting steel bottles into a neoprene bag, tearing them from their cardboard containers.

He said he eventually noticed Scott had a firearm in his waistband, so he and another employee approached Scott and told him Costco had a policy against firearms in the store and he would have to leave.

Lierley said Scott jumped up and told him he was a Green Beret and had the constitutional right to carry it.

Lierley then called a 911 dispatcher. The 911 audio recording, with a transcript, was being played to jurors.

10:43 a.m.

The next witness in the coroner's inquest into the death of Erik Scott is Shai Lierley, a loss prevention supervisor at Costco.

Lierley testified that he spotted Scott in an aisle in Costco and he was acting strangely, leading him to keep watch on him.

He explained the events that led him to call police about Scott. Lierley was working in plain-clothes at Costco to prevent thefts.

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Steven Novotny demonstrates how Erik Scott pointed a gun at him and his dog as he testifies during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010. Novotny said the event occurred after his dog got loose and bit Scott.

10:12 a.m.

Steven Novotny said his dog, a 70- to 75-pound chow-pitbull-lab-rottweiler mix, bit Scott March 9, 2010. Scott then pulled a gun on his dog, then later pointed a gun at him, said.

Novotny said after the dog had bitten Scott, he went to confront Scott, and Scott threatened him with a gun.

"I thought I was going to get shot because of a dog bite," Novotny testified.

Novotny said that made him angry.

"When he pointed the gun at me, yes I did (get angry). But afterwards, I cooled off," Novotny said. "I was mad because he pointed a gun at me and he threatened to shoot me."

Scott apologized and said he was sorry for the incident. Novotny said he offered to pay for Scott's hospital bill from the dog bite, but Scott left.

Novotny said he wasn't fearful of confronting Scott, "because I was also carrying."

Novotny said he didn't call police about the incident because he didn't have a good description of Scott at the time.

Animal control eventually came to pick up Novotny's dog.

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Bill Scott, right, father of Erik Scott, talks with attorney Ross Goodman as a recording of a 911 tape between Costco employee Shai Lierley and Metro Police dispatch is played during a coroner's inquest at the Regional Justice Center Thursday, September 23, 2010.

9:43 a.m.

The second day of testimony has begun in the coroner's inquest into the Metro Police shooting death of Erik Scott on July 10 at the Summerlin Costco.

The first person to testify is Steven Novotny, who alleges Scott pulled a gun on his dog on March 9 this year. Novotny said the dog had bitten Scott.

"Mr. Scott said 'you're lucky I didn't shoot you and your (expletive) dog,'" Novotny testified.

Novotny said Scott was pointing his gun at Novotny when the incident occurred.

Court officials, who have restricted access to the 40-seat courtroom for interested parties and limited media, were having technical problems to start the day.

Although there was a TV feed coming into the overflow courtroom set up for media and the public, something was wrong with the audio feed.

Reporters in the overflow room covering the inquest and members of the public hoping to hear it couldn't do so for the first portion of testimony from today's first witness.

The audio was restored about 9:35 p.m., about 15 minutes into the testimony from Novotny.

The inquest is expected to last through at least the end of the day Friday and may continue onto another day.

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  1. I would be thoroughly pissed off too if a dog bit me..I might even pull my gun if I felt threatened. Would I point it at the owner? No.

    Based on what we are hearing during this inquest...Erik Scott should not have owned a gun. Neither should this witness.

    This witness should have called the police right away. He went back for his gun? This is why people get killed.

  2. How is any of this relevant to what happened the day he was confronted by officers in Summerlin?

    From a defense perspective (defense of the cops), I understand why it's being introduced.

    But none of the contemporary accounts of the shooting indicated that any time he 'threatened' anyone with a gun.

    Very disturbing. I'm 110% pro-police, but this process is a joke.

  3. TomD;
    I am not fully versed in Nevada State Law, but I don't believe being a "class jerk off" is a justification for shooting someone. I think it is irrelevant. At this point, police would NOT roll in mass with urgency to expel a "class jerk off" out of a store. Wait and see if the situation was not exaggerated which lead the inexperienced "patrolmen" (not trained SWAT) to come to the scene frightened and with their adrenaline pumping.

  4. What's the point of this testimony? Well, to show that Scott was unstable/aggressive enough to pull a gun on another human being. Luckily I'm a level headed person. I would NEVER have pulled a gun on another human being because a dog bit me. I value human life too much for that. Scott did it once in the past, he did it again in front of the cops as the witness stated yesterday. Shooting justified.

  5. Again, for today. None of this evidence establishes whether or not the officers were justified in shooting Erik Scott. This is all "after the fact" evidence which the officers would not have known at the time of the shooting.

    Because the jury is only being presented with this biased evidence without the Scott family's attorney being able to present rebutting testimony or evidence, or cross examination of the witnesses, the jury will always conclude in favor of the police, as they have been.

    Furthermore, the ONLY witnesses that should be called in this proceeding are those relevant to the day of the shooting: the involved officers, costco employees, and eyewitnesses.

    Extraneous witnesses - past girlfriends, ex-wives, former neighbors, co-workers or employers, and anyone who was NOT at Costco at the time of the shooting - have nothing of legitimate value to bring to the proceeding. Maybe Scott was a real jerk last year to some witness, but did Erik Scott pull and aim a gun at officers on THAT DAY prompting them to shoot him? That is the ONLY evidence that should be allowed in these proceedings!

    No wonder the Courts are backlogged, jails are overcrowded, and Clark County has a budget crisis if the prosecution handles all of its criminal cases in the same way as it handles this inquest!

  6. I work as a Loss prevention Tech at a Store here in town, We have many cameras throughout our stores. It is my job to check the Cameras DAILY to make sure that they are in working order. Though I do not sit and view the cameras my entire shift and I spend most of my time walking the Floor, It is my duty to make sure that the systems are up and running properly. This Shai Guy stated during his questioning that it isnt his duty to check the Survalience system nor the duty of management, So my question is Who's job is it & Why even have the camera since your store doesnt rely on them..

  7. Like I stated earlier I believe The Costco Loss Prevention employee wasnt telling the whole truth, The 911 tape doesnt match his testimony given today and his survalience camera story isnt sitting well with me either. My heart goes out to the family of Erik Scott reguardless of what really went down that day , They are still suffering the loss of their family member Justified or NOT...

  8. Guess Metro never thought to taze the guy. And as for the CCTV footage to be "corrupted", I'm not sure what that means, but it will eventually emerge. Pictures never lie.

  9. lvmp, you seem to be seriously ignoring the facts. Both his military training and his NV CCW training class already taught him that when confronted by police you DO NOT under any circumstances place your hand on your weapon. It doesn't matter if one of the officers shouted "drop it". If your hand is not on your weapon you do not move it there. If it is, you move your hand away and up in clear view.

    You can "speculate" all you want that by "drop it" the officer was telling him to draw his weapon from his waistband and then drop it on the ground and would have shot him if he failed to comply. Since that is not what happened it is only speculation on your part, and not very good speculation either. Bottom line "suspect with hand on weapon = THREAT", "suspect with empty hands in air = NON-THREAT".

    You keep repeatedly throwing out straw man arguments on "so because he did xxx he deserved to die?" They are all irrelevant. The answer to your question is "Yes. Because he drew his weapon after being confronted by police he deserved to die".

    As for your previous question on tasers, here's a scenario or you. We put you in front of a man with a gun in his waitband and his hand on the gun (we'll even say not drawn, just hand-on-gun), you get a taser aimed at him and ready. At the same time you each get to try and fire on the other. Odds are that you will incapacitate him before he kills you. But odds are funny things. Repeat that same experiment 10 times with 10 different gunmen and I'll give you 1000 to 1 odds that you end up shot and killed before the 10th is done. So no, it is not reasonable to expect police to use tasers on an armed suspect unless his hands are far away from his weapon. (which was not the case this time)

  10. Actually lvmp, there have been almost no witnesses who have come forth with conflicting statements.

    Remember "I didn't see a gun" is very, very different from "I saw the whole thing and there was no gun". You and I weren't there and we can both factually state "I didn't see a gun". The only witnesses who matter are the ones who DID clearly see the entire event.

  11. Yes, lvmp that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. If you disagree so strongly, then run down and enroll in the police academy and from now on YOU can personally excercise "another course of action" whenever Metro in confronted with another armed suspect. Similar to your taser claim, I'd estimate that your attempts would get you killed within the first 10 attempts.

  12. Oh, but's so FUN to keep feeding him. He reminds me of a puppy I once saw who was so excited about the tidbits he was getting that he kept biting himself in his attempts to get to them faster.

    OK, all kidding aside I know what you're saying and I'll give it a rest. (heck, even this post should probably get removed as off-topic and somewhat of a personal attack)

  13. Actually lvmp, you're not being called a troll for asking the questions. You're being called a troll because you choose to ignore or disregard the answers when they don't fit in with what you've already decided on.

    You asked for witnesses to the shooting, and you're getting them. But you immediately disregard everything they say because you think they all have an ulterior motive.

    For those who all ask why Erik's medical history, drug use, etc are relevant...this is why. Eyewitnesses are often unreliable, so you need background information to help determine the value of their testimony. If they say they saw someone doing something that, based on their history, seems highly unlikely - then a juror might give less credence to the testimony than they would if there was a history that made the actions testified about seem more likely to have occurred.

  14. Yeah havens, and a pretty good cover up too....."Hey guys, let's go down to Costco and sabotage their DVR just in case, two days from now, we get called to respond to an armed suspect so we can shoot him and get off completely free!"

    Or are you thinking that Metro has a time machine hidden in the office that they can use to go back in time and alter the evidence?

  15. Missing video, especially from a hard drive system, just reeks of foul play.

    The inquest system must be replace by a review panel involving civilians.

    My own thought is that any officer involved in a shooting is automatically charged with some kind of manslaughter or attempted manslaughter. Let a judge and jury sort it out in a real court setting, not this dog and pony show. Granted, that would still leave the question of how hard the DA would prosecute such a case.

  16. And the phone call to the company that provides the surveillance equipment two days prior?

    Or are you claiming that Metro intimidated Costco, the surveillance company (Vegas Valley Locking Systems), AND the phone company too?

  17. Actually bltserv, if you followed the testimony I don't believe that it was Metro that removed the hard drive. I believe that it was Jody Okawaki, "a special agent with the U.S. Secret Service who is a computer forensic examiner" who removed the drive and took it to Seagate Recovery Service. And if you think that most commodity DVR's use RAID then you're living in a dream world.

  18. Actually Havens, it's funny you ask because the answer is "Yes, I do." I have 32 years of experience in the industry.

    As for your claims that it would be too important to wait for a obviously don't work int he industry. What exactly do you think Costco's options would have been? They reported it to the vendor/supplier (Vegas Valley Locking Systems) at which point they have no option but to wait for that vendor to respond.

    Try this as an experiment. Let's say that you have a GE refrigerator that's still under warranty. Call them up and tell them that your refrigerator just died and you want a replacement. When they tell you how long it will be before you get one, you go ahead and tell them that "it's important and you can't wait that long". Keep repeating that and see if you get your new refrigerator any sooner.

    The local Costco store doesn't have any more power than you do in a case like that to make things happen sooner.

  19. Actually bltserv, I didn't ever dispute your industry experience claim - that was Havens challenging my industry experience.

    I just think that your experience with high end systems has mislead you into believing that local stores like Costco use far higher end equipment than they actually do. Almost all common retail security system DVR's do NOT have any for of RAID compatibility. Go ahead and look up the specs for DMStar, Apex, Falco, Bluefin, etc. Not a single model with RAID for redundancy.

    As a matter of fact, if you go back and listen to today's testimony over again I think you will find that they covered that the unit in question used a SINGLE hard drive and therefore could not have any RAID capability.

  20. Actually bltserv, if you looked at Vegas Valley's site you would see that they use Unisight systems. The standalone system that Costco got (UNS-7000 series) does *NOT* have any RAID redundancy.

  21. Very good Havens....and where on there does it say RAID?

    It list up to 2 internal drives and support for external iSCSI.

    But the testimony today has already covered that it was "internal storage" that failed, so they were not using external iSCSI.

    We know it has to be a UNS-7000 series because the specs listed above only match the UNS-7000 series (they're way off from the UNS-9000 series and those are the only two commercial DVR systems that Unisight sells currently - though technically the UNS-9000 isn't a DVR, it's an NVR)

    The UNS-7000 series boxes do not support RAID on the internal drives, so the RAID question is pretty much put to bed.

  22. bltserv, you are correct...IF they are using a single DVR to handle all of the cameras. Not if they have multiple DVR units. I don't know the answer to that question.

  23. I'm going with bltserv on this one. I'm also in an industry that relies heavily upon drive storage. All of our systems are RAID, often with replication. The loss of a single drive wouldn't even cause a blip, the system automatically compensates and allows us to replace it with a "hot swap" in a matter of minutes.

    Even in the unlikely event that the Costco system was using a single drive with no backup procedure, data recovery would get almost all of it.

    In the even more unlikely event that it was a hardware failure on a single drive system then the system would have been fully crashed at the time of the initial failure.

    No, this stinks.

  24. Havens, because if they were using iSCSI the experts would not have testified about the "internal storage" failing - iSCSI is external storage.

    blt, I'm really torn on the single DVR/multiple DVR question. The UNS-7000 series can go up to 16 video feeds. Would Costco need more than 16 cameras? (Dunno) Would Costco have bought multiple smaller systems from VVLS, possibly even at different times, as they expanded surveillance? (Dunno) So bottom line, I'm torn on you observation about some cameras recording and others not...with a single DVR it sound be a red flag, with multiple it wouldn't and I don't have enough information to make a guess as to which way they would go or why.

  25. Havens, you mean like the Secret Service agent who already testified that she was brought in to help recover the data?

  26. Havens,

    Correct, neither bltserv or I have seen the unit. But based on the name of the vendor (VVLS), what they sell (Unisight), and the specs given by both VVLS and Unisight - we can make educated guesses about what hardware model Costco is using.

    The fact that he and I are coming to the same conclusion about which model it is, despite the fact that we're on opposite sides of the original question, escalates it to a VERY educated guess.

  27. I'd take the Treasury department over the FBI for data recovery any day of the week. The perception that the FBI are the top experts in that field is mainly an artifact of TV and movies. The Treasury department has to do far more forensic data recovery in their cases than the FBI does.

  28. "Why hasn't the unit been identified and photos released so that all parties know EXACTLY what we are talking about here?"

    That's a good point Havens.

    I suspect that it's because blt and I are looking at it from the point of view of "investigators" or "expert witnesses"...but the case is being presented to a jury. A jury isn't supposed to be made up of experts who can interpret the evidence independently, it's a group of people whose job is to weigh the testimony of the experts who did evaluate the evidence.

  29. westvegas,

    If Seagate can't do a recovery, that raises even more red flags for those of us who work with drive systems.

  30. From what they described, I think the reason the files can't be recovered is that there were no files to recover.

    From the description "the DVR unit was locking up" and the fact that it didn't start recording again until after the reboot...makes me suspect that from 2:14pm on the 8th until it was rebooted on the 10th it was not recording at all.

    I don't care how good you are at recovery, you can't recover files that were never created.

    And Havens, if my comments made you think that I was saying that the FBI wasn't good at forensic data recovery, that was not my intent. What I was trying to say is that they are not THE best even if they are one of the best. The Treasury Department's forensic data recovery team is however, in my opinion, the best professional civilian team in the country. (There's a research team at RPI that's doing remarkable things - just not on a professional basis)

    If between them and the drive manufacturer they can't recover the data...then it isn't there to be recovered.

  31. It's the police use of force training that is the cause of this murder of Eric Scott. The police have been primed to kill, and then evaluate a situation, our police have said so. The argument that the police do not intend to kill someone when they get out of bed in the morning has absolutely no meaning, when one understands the training these police officers get. Police Officer William Mosher apparently, unable to think while under stress, gave commands to drop the gun, and then murdered Eric Scott when Scott was compiling with those commands. After the fact, Police Officer William Mosher that he didn't even remember that he gave those commands. Yes folks, we do have a murder. But the people responsible for these murders are those people who drafted and approved the current police use of force policies, the people who provided the training, and those in political and judicial powers who allowed these polices to stand. It is time for the Citizens to call for a change in these "Police use of force", tactics.

  32. This is not over yet. Meaning You watch towards the end they will bring the truth to light. What metro did to Eric Scott was wrong. These so called police could have shot him in the foot but no they choose to take his life.

  33. I'm glad all you morons think that a community college education and a few months in "cop school" gives a person total power and control over the entire population base. I wish I were an uneducated neanderthal like you. Because if I were, I wouldn't be so depressed at how ****ing pathetic this world and country is.

    Take a look at that fat worthless nobody cop in the photo. That guy doesn't know SH*T about the world. He's a pawn. He spends his days chasing around people who have NO bearing on the success of this world. And that's exactly what the elite want. They want stupid cops and stupid politicians. They want out citizens oppressed so they can be jerked around like slaves. Yeah people, give up your guns, your freedoms. Here, have another episode of American Idol and another Coke while we strip your rights away.

    Did I hear a comment about the FBI? LOL. The FBI is such a pathetic organization. The salaries are so low that they get the left-over college idiots who couldn't get a job elsewhere. DEA? Thugs in uniforms. Yeah man, go bust those darn pot dealers! Because gosh, selling weed is bad! I mean hey, don't worry about the people stealing millions and billions of dollars from our tax funds. Don't worry about the corporations playing market games. Don't worry about the banks wreaking havoc all over the country. No.. no... go worry about the guy selling pot on the corner.

    The cops are the real enemies. Knowingly or unknowlingly, it doesn't matter. They're all a bunch of idiots who shouldn't be in charge of cooking toast.