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Sam Morris / Las Vegas Sun
Metro Capt. Patrick Neville briefs members of the media after a shooting at a Costco store in Summerlin that left one man dead Saturday.
By Kyle B. Hansen (contact) 
Published Saturday, July 10, 2010 | 1:55 p.m.
Updated Saturday, July 10, 2010 | 7:12 p.m.
Shooting location
A man walked into a busy Costco store in Summerlin armed with two guns Saturday afternoon, eventually pulling out a weapon and prompting Metro Police to fatally shoot the gunman.
Police Capt. Patrick Neville said Costco security personnel called police at 12:47 p.m. after the man began destroying merchandise in the store. After the call, store security noticed the man had a gun and began to evacuate the business, Neville said.
The store is at 801 S. Pavilion Center Drive, which is near the Charleston Boulevard and Las Vegas Beltway interchange. The business was mostly evacuated when officers arrived.
Police approached the man just outside Costco's front doors near a display of tires.
Neville said an officer tapped the man on the shoulder. The man turned around and the officer saw a gun in the man's waistband, police said.
The officer ordered the man to the ground, but the gunman refused, police said. Neville said the gunman then pulled out the gun in his waistband, prompting three officers to fire multiple shots.
The man was taken to University Medical Center, where he later died.
At the hospital, medical personnel discovered a second gun on the man. Both were semi-automatic handguns.
Neville estimated about 20 people were in the vicinity when the shooting occurred. No one else was injured during the incident.
The man was described as white, about 6-foot-1-inch tall and 190 pounds. He was in his 30s or 40s, police said. His name will be released by the Clark County Coroner's Office.
Neville credited Costco security officials with possibly helping to avoid a more serious incident from taking place.
"Through Costco taking some proactive measures here, that probably stemmed a lot of problems," he said.
Costco was closed Saturday while officers continued their investigation. Authorities interviewed several witnesses to the shooting.
The officers who fired will be placed on paid administrative leave during an investigation, which is standard procedure in officer-involved shootings.
"one person was shot", the rest we need to make up....
So lets get it straight,, the officers were startled by movement of the gunman,, and proceeded to shoot and kill the man.. What a startling story this is...So exactly how many officers were on the firing line to this persons execution...Anyways how safe were the others in the store...
@ asleep...wait for the details...good job Metro!!!
Lets just wait until the final report comes out.
asleep who are an idiot. People like you need to just get the hell out of our town. Great job metro. A lot of innocent people at a busy store. The man had a gun and was not listeneing to police commands. Any movement towards an officer with a deadly weapon is going to be justified. Once again, great job metro, thank you for all you do.
I was there as well. We walked in to the store got to the meat section and a herd of people came towards us they said they were told to evacuated due to a bomb scare. We then turned and started walking out. My dad who LOVES COSTCO help him self to a few samples of boston cream pie on the way out. When we got to the door, two Metro Officers were stack at the door with there glocks locked and loaded we walked towards our car which was to the right when coming out of the store. We just made it off the side walk when we heard 6 or 7 of the same sounding rounds go off. People started running and screaming meanwhile my dad RET. MARINE COL and my Fiancee currently a LCPL in the Marines were yelling for people to get down behind cars. Then my dad goes running to help people with children get out of the way having me worried out of my mind!
Needless to say it was a crazy day at Costco and I cant believe this happened in SUMMERLIN of all places!
Still wondering why he got shot and if someone actually saw him with a gun as well as Why didn't Costco shut down from letting people in the door when THEY KNEW SOMETHING WAS UP
Andy Taylor....RIP.
Ohhh and GOOD JOB METRO for protecting all the innocent people at COSTCO. This situation could have been a lot worse with all the innocent adults and children around. Thank you for your fast response!
I hate to break the news to the folks at Costco, but there is no law against carrying a gun in Las Vegas. In fact, many Nevadans have concealed weapon permits, and Costco has no signs that prohibit weapons.
If Metro can cover up an assault, as they did with that waste of flesh, Jim Gibbons, they can cover up anything.
You could be next. Think about it.
It was Bush's fault.
I carry a concealed firearm legally everywhere permitted including Costco. I hope I would not be executed by the local PD for legally carrying a legally purchased firearm because some citizen was frightened by the sight of a pistol.
"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
This is in the first sentence of the second amendment. It was not an afterthought. It was number 2 on the short list to maintain your freedom.
Sounds like there may have been a unhappy Costco member. Maybe he wasn't happy with the free food samples today. Both the victim and Costco lose on this. Now, Costco won't get his membership renewel and he's dead.
My mother happend to be there shopping that day and she told me what she saw happend. People were yelled at to exit the store saying some one had a gun no one knew who turns out even the man with the gun and the woman he was with left, not to long later he was shouted at by cops who drew there weapons on him all the wile the woman he was with was shouting "He's with the military he's with the military!" he reached back and then he was shot four times in the chest, He was then handcuffed and left bleed out on the hot pavemnt as the paramedics didnt evin make a move to treat him.
I agree the man shouldnt have reached back seeing as how that can look threating but four shots to the chest seems like a big over kill, and then for the medics to not even treat him seems really wrong to me. No he wasnt some crazy gunman he was there shoping he had no intention to kill or even pull out his weapon last I checked its not ilegal for a military man to care around a fire arm, Costco has security they should have asked the man for identification not call the cops and make a giant situation wich ended a mans life a man who risks his life for this country.
first cop told him to "put the gun down", second cop told him to "put up your hands", third cop shot him for not obeying the command.
cops shooting in a crowded parking lot, sounds like a good call....
sounds like it was justified to me
Does anyone know how to read? This fellow apparently was destroying merchandise in the store. and was armed. when he was approached by the officers he refused to follow their orders.
There is some degree of responsibility required when you carry a weapon even if its legal. You have to behave yourself or the threat level to other people increases if your armed.
A lot of people just carry as a form of intimidation. There is a point where your actions are questionable. From what I am reading it sounds to me that this fellow wanted to be shot and got what he wanted.
Is that what happens when you excercise your Second Amendment rights?
Thanks for the info Megla. Seems once again cold blooded murder by Metro. Will there be an inquiry, don't bet on it.
JSin
Costco will have all of this on tape. Let's see what it shows. But as quick as Metro is to shoot who knows?
Janmara1 "A lot of people just carry as a form of intimidation."
Police do. Sometimes they wear black bad guy masks like the old IRA terrorist used to. It's so tacticool.
I don't see any civilian open carry outside of gun stores.
You will never see my firearm.
The good news is Obama is going to get PTSD help for our military veterans, maybe this will enable METRO to figure out WTF is wrong with their own?
For the Vegas newbee's...Welcome! There is nowhere in this town you can go to be safe. It's a violent city and you never know who your next door renter is. I'll now be waiting for a comment from a casino worker or clubber to say "then leave".
A society obsessed with guns. And some clowns wrote that bearing arms was good.... It was great at THAT time..
Reading the comments from people who state they were ACTUALLY THERE this story sounds like big BS and trying to excuse police error and trying to justify it. Why are the comments from patrons who were there so different from the news story? There was no mention of "confrontation" and/or "Damaging goods." In fact as scary as the situation was those who were there all post that there was "confusion." The news is hours behind peoples comments that were witness yet has an entirely different story/claim. I am more than happy and relieved everyone else is ok, however, I am confused at the story vs. the witness claims.
Even the lame "story" released by METRO is "subject". The question is if the "officer" was close enough to tap the "armed" man on the shoulder then why did he not simply take control and disarm the man.
Because the cop was busy pulling his weapon in a crowd of shoppers including children...good move, freaking coward!
Agree with "peaches" if he was that close and noticed the gun in his WAISTBAND why not grab/tackle? Why not even go for the knees or arms? Should have reviewed their "story" a bit closer before releasing it. There seems to be a lot of gaps and nonsensical information on this "story" (I put that in quotes because thats what it sounds like). it also states "AFTER the call, the gun was noticed" so why bring in metro/ 20+ police officers team for 1 crazy customer damaging products?
Metro should have let the guy start shooting people first. That's the only thing you idiots want to see. Then you can cry "Why didn't they do anything?" You people disgust me.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was in all caps.
"obsessed with guns"
You are a moron! Go ahead and take guns away from law abiding citizens, everything will be ok! just like it worked in DC and Chicago....
oh wait the two highest crime rates in the country!!! do your research before you criticize firearms! certain people should not own firearms! if you take them away from law abiding people the criminals will still and always have them!
when somebody breaks into your house go ahead and call the police! they will get there just in time to get out the mop and clean up the mess that criminal just made of you!
Dont blame guns, they dont cause violence!
The man was "destroying" merchandise in the store, that's why METRO was called, when he was ordered to cooperate, he failed, he made a move for his gun and was shot.
I feel bad if he was ex military, but his actions brought about his demise.
Just because you can carry a gun doesn't mean you can act like an idiot.
This doesn't have a single thing to do with the 2d Amendment. It is irrelevant whether he had a CCW permit or not. It is irrelevant what weapon he was in possession of. It could have been a kitchen knife or an air gun.
If the officers feel their life is threatened they are authorized to use deadly force. If I see you have a weapon and are reaching for it, my life or the lives of others are threatened and my job is to stop the threat. Guess what the law and their training says about that?
"The officer ordered the man to the ground, but the gunman refused, police said. Neville said the gunman then pulled out the gun in his waistband, prompting three officers to fire multiple shots."
Had he followed the officers orders, as required by law, he would be alive. Raise your hands, make no attempt to reach for anything, drop slowly to your knees and roll over onto your side and then your stomach keeping your hands above your head. Instantly and without hesitation.
Those of you who think the officer had time or obligation to conduct a survey, ask yourself 20 questions, question the mans motives and hesitate long enough to wonder what if, have never had that responsibility, that training OR been facing a potential homicidal maniac armed at point blank range.
If you had, you wouldn't be acting like know nothing knee jerk monday morning peanut gallery nit wits.
Therein lies the problem, METRO's midgets always feel threatened.
Unbelievable how people jump to conclusions on either side of this issue when all they have to go on is a preliminary news report. You folks are pathetically reactionary, accusatory, defensive, assumptive and angry. Trial by Internet!
Oh, and Brian_D, I'd suggest you leave town if you don't like it, but I'm neither a "casino worker" nor a "clubber." Just a native and four-decade resident. Stay somewhere you hate ... Sounds reasonable.
@charliemmch. If your going to post in CAPS at least make sense and spell right.
Why would Costco call the police if the guy was "destroying merchandise" they have security they could have easly escorted the man out. Then later they say they noticed a gun in his wasteband, wouldnt they inform the police officers who walked up to the man and "taped him on the shoulder".
Some of you think this guy was running around with a gun in his hand, he was SHOPING with someone who seems to be his wife. He left the store whem the employs told everyone to leave and was confronted outside.
I dont hate cops, I belive they do more good then bad when it comes down to it but I don't think this was handled as it could have been. Sure I might panic myself not knowing what to do if i was in the police officers shoes, but these men are TRAINED for situations like this.
The man didn't have his weapon drawn, would it have been so hard for them to ask for identification first instead up increasing everyones panic by drawling there guns first?
Like I said I don't hate the police but I do think there the only ones to blame for this innocents mans death.
The last time I was up at the Clark County Shooting Park I stop at the Costco near Decatur @ 215 on my way home. At that store they had signs "NO FIREARMS" I turn around and took off my one concealed carry handgun and left it in my car. If something would have happen to me or my friend who was with me "BAD OR NOT SO BAD" I would have called the NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION "I AM A MEMBER" To help me sue Costco into the next century. Gunfree zones always hurt the innocent' And stupid corporate lawyers don't care about you neather.
Hello, I am the sister in law of the young man who was shot at Costco. The immediate family is in shock right now about their beloved family member being killed today and I am trying to help prepare for the future. If you are a witness who observed what happened will you please email me at CostcoFamily@hotmail.com. I would sincerely appreciate knowing who you are. Thank you, A Deeply Sad Family Member
@RPJ...I feel sorry for you. You've had to see the demise of your once great city. Again, I'm sorry.
FWIW: If I was a witness, I would NEVER email info to an anonymous, unverifiable e-mail address. Who knows WHO they are or WHAT their motivations are in seeking this information? Further, who knows what TYPE of information you are going to get in return? I'd guess that most of the e-mail will be from the vociferous arguers in this forum trying to argue one side or the other without having been within a hundred miles of the event.
If "CostcoFamily" is really a member of the deceased's family, then the immediate family would be better served by you getting on the phone with an attorney.
And I'm not being facetious.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was in all caps and contained name calling.
Brian_D, please. Your feigned empathy is misdirected. I neither need it nor want it. Las Vegas has survived much worse.
What happened is known as "postal", only today it is known as "METRO".
Hey Mr. Sun just how many cops are on administrative paid leave? In Oakland they just convicted a hero.
Why do the police so often use deadly force? What about all their training and all their non-lethal weaponry?
Brian_D states: "@charliemmch. If your going to post in CAPS at least make sense and spell right."
You're. The proper spelling is "you're."
Suicide by cop...
Here's the bottom line: If you are going to legally carry a gun, as this state allows, that's fine. If you're going to carry a gun, have a cop approach you and you comply only to show them your CW, that's fine. If you're going to carry two guns, cause a scene by destroying merchandise, allow the cops to come, NOT comply with them, and then attempt to grab your gun, you are (and rightfully so) going to get shot. The End.
RPJ is right about one thing. If you saw anything at COSTCO you need to seek an attorney or at least reach out to any number of entities outside of Nevada.
Protect yourself and serve this community!
Well, whatever the "facts" turn out to be, this'll
be another classic chapter in the Stephen King novel we're living.
What character are YOU playing???
RPJ...man, I always liked your posts until today. Read my post once more, you even quoted it. "If your going to post in CAPS..." I did not post in CAPS but I did make the mistake of not using "you're" in the proper way. My bad.
I like that we have cops that aren't willing to f&*% around with a man with a gun. If you have a gun, legally or not, you better do what our cops tell you to do... exactly. If you have a gun on you and it's visible you are asking for attention and trouble, well this guy got both.
I remember the last time this happened some said that the killing of innocent people would stop when it was a white person.... Well I think we have one on isle 7.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was in all caps and contained a personal attack.
My girlfriend was at Costco shopping. She heard a loud noise and saw a man WITH HIS GUN DRAWN moving in the direction of the food court. She has been well trained in the safe use of hand guns and called me immediately upon leaving the store describing the hand gun as a semiautomatic pistol. Brandishing a hand gun is against the law whether or not you have a concealed weapons permit. Failure to comply with police instructions while carrying a hand gun places the police in a DEADLY FORCE SITUATION. While I feel sorry for the family of the man who was killed, the police acted to protect the innocent shoppers who do not buy Costco memberships to have their and their family's lives put at risk. If you were a police officer instructing someone with a loaded gun (and if you are properly trained you always assume every gun is loaded) to comply with your instructions and they failed to do so, drawing their gun in the process (an act of aggression) what would you do, wait until they shot you or someone else? Come on people, would you rather have had the police justify the shooting by having innocent adults and children or police officers shot first?
I do not know Mr. pragmatist...ask Yant!
Brian_D, I don't post here to gain a fan club. If I post at all, I try to be informed and balanced. That you do not agree with me today is your choice. I'm simply not interested in entertaining lazy attacks on Las Vegas.
Comment removed by moderator. Post contained advertisement.
Daaaaang, what is wrong with people? you can't get that mad at tires at costco can ya?, the order is simple ,,, put the gun down, end of story .Why force an officer to kill you, cuz they don't shoot to wound anymore. Totally senseless.
RPJ, I still apologize that you've lived here 40 years. No wonder you don't get it.
The vast majority of people who post have no concemption of police work or security. I support the fact that you go on ride alongs with the police, it was a giany eye opener and anyone can go. Oh I take that back if your not a criminal with a record.....I guess that may leave a lot of you out! Its to bad this is not a section to post actual worthwhile comments instead of the stupidty that runs rampid on here. Anywhere in the world pointing a gun a cop can have an impact on your health and life. Use common sense people and you will not only be safe but you will make those around you safe.
CostcoFamily - I know exactly what happened... your boy was acting a fool and got killed, deal with it.
Apparently a shift change a METRO is responsible for the last few post.
peaches - why would a Metro Officer go on a ride along? Also, learn English before you post.
{SBC}15 min. of fame and life gose on nobody realy cares its all about me!!!
Brian_D: You "apologize" that I've lived here 40 years? In English, please.
I hope peaches just likes getting people riled up and isn't really this dumb, the only thing I'm sad about is that the cops didn't pump more bullets into him, and that our tax dollars didn't have to be wasted on an ambulance for this guy who obviously wanted his life ended but was too scared to just do it himself.
Sounds like suicide by cop....Hope there was a clear video.....So tired of the metro bashing.
Did any one get hurt or trampled trying to exit Costco after the man killed was seen walking through the store with his gun drawn? A busy shopping day, a store full of people, and someone brandishes a gun and destroys merchandise resulting in panic. Why do people like Peaches use episodes like this to attack the police when the actions of one man could have (and may have for all I know) resulted in men, women and children being trampled/injured/killed as they tried to exit the store and get away from a man with a gun? Don't innocent bystanders have rights too Peaches? Peaches seems to have a real thing for Metro. Perhaps he or she is intimately familiar with the workings of our criminal justice system. Spent any time behind bars Peaches?
"Is that what happens when you excercise your Second Amendment rights?"
That's exactly what happens. You carry a gun around and sooner or later one of two things is going to happen: either you're going to shoot someone or you're going to get shot.
I don't get all the "metro-haters"? Metro is the only thing keeping the thin fabric of "society" intact in Las Vegas. Many of you talk about them like they're thugs. I'm glad they're on our side. In my opinion, Las Vegas is one of the nastiest cities in the country. Thank God most tourists stay under the Freemont canopy or only travel the strip between Wynn and Mandalay. Venture north of the Strat, around the world famous Sierra Vista Dr. or anywhere in N. Las Vegas and it's a war zone.
If a person goes into a store, starts destroying merchandise, and ALSO has a gun in his waistband, then that spells trouble! He should have just put his hands on his head, and he wouldn't be in the morgue right now. Who cares if he is military? He is in civilian jurisdiction - a food store. Someone above said that Costco has a sign posted outside that says "NO FIREARMS". Does that mean they don't sell them? NO! It means DO NOT BRING FIREARMS IN THE STORE! Since the deceased man did not comply with store policy, and furthermore, he did not comply with officers when he was told to drop the gun, he pretty much was in a situation where prayers were needed to God, to ask for forgiveness of past sins, because he was NOT going to be alive very much longer. Metro acted the best way they knew how to defuse the situation. He could have gone mad and started shooting wildly in all directions, killing many. It's better that he died, instead of multiple innocent bystanders.
No matter what happened 6-7 shots at one person from trained policeman, no reason for it.
Has Metro ever had a bad shooting? None that I can remember.
DennyVega, I don't know if your contradicting yourself or what, you sound really dumb but if 3 or more officers shoot at once your going to have more than a few rounds in the subject.
im not a cop but an avid shooter, they say that under true stress your skills reduce to about 33% this just isnt for cops its for humans. For some its far better but the cops are not in a war where they are confronted with scenarios that may raise that. I'd imagine they qualify about 4 times a year, it ur tax dollars if u want better training then give them more money. i dont care how many shots they fired, bead guy gone, good guys (cops, kids, shoppers) safe. good job cops.
yes for all the grammer teacher bad guys gone!
Looks like just another murder by the biggest and baddest gang in Las Vegas, Metro...
Well we will never hear the bad guys side of the story will we.
Seems a 9mm hollow point to the thigh would have put him down. Hell both thighs.
shoot him in the thigh great idea, lol!!!!! guess what happens when u shoot a deer in the heart it runs for a 25 yards drops and dies. Guess what happens when u shoot a guy with a gun in the thighs, he falls and starts shooting people. Great ideas, how about a fire hose too!!!
I'm happy to see the Sun staff polices this board as I am happy to know Costco has fast acting security personnel in the stores. I haven't lived here long and had no idea so many folks are licensed to carry concealed weapons and apparently do. Perhaps we're fortunate there are not more sad incidents like this.
Im done posting, thanks for the laughs and silly comments. To 80% of you I really thank you for the job security that you all provide me along with the other 20% based upon your mindsets, you all are wonderful. If you could thank your kids too, I'm sure my kids will appreciate them for them same that I do you.
Luvthadirt, I based the 6-7 rounds on the catb3 post who was present at the scene.
Since your so knowledgable, maybe you can answer, has Metro ever had a bad shoot?
Sounds like the cops did their job.
Good Job METRO, idiots who don't know the procedures when told to halt or stop.... Just like the ones with Stupid comments.... Go Shop at SAMS Club!
@smartone618, typing, as you likely are from behind your gated community, you obviously have not lived in a real city. I have and I can report to you that Vegas is pretty tame. The cops are a bit more trigger happy here, but there is almost always a reason for it. There are times when it is not warranted and it is unfortunate they are not held accountable, but that is for another discussion.
And lane6007, "F" WalMart and Sam's Club. Shop local.
Can I see a show of hands of those who think the police are legally obligated to protect you? I open carry for the protection of me and my family. I'm sorry if some of you don't agree that our rights should be protected/exercised. remember, when seconds count, help is only minutes away. But on that note...if one carries, one must be responsible
Catb3 - Was the Boston Cream Pie good??
Thank you Metro for protecting the members of our community who were at Costco today. According to a family member who was at the store and saw this man just moments before his death, you did the right thing!
Some of these comments are retarded. For those of you who have a gun and reach for it, whether or not you point it at a Police Officer, or even have a permit for it, it is a threat to that Police Officer's life. Especially if you are ordered to do something by an officer and you fail to comply, your just looking to get shot. Barring any other bizzare circumstance in the situation, if a cop, I would have shot the S.O.B. too. Good Job Metro and such a shame that this had to happen!
Why don't all you bleeding hearts out there be a police office put your life on the line and just maybe you will not have to face a crazy man with a gun, if you have a gun and they tell you to get down you get down you don't pull out, what would any of you do if it was your family next to that crazy man and he killed one of them take him into to your home so OH!!!!!! I used to work at that store and it is always packed and I have friends there that seen what went down, I moved out of Vegas because people had come into my house and there was a home invasion two blocks away, so maybe we should take theses people just open our doors say hi come in and rob and kill and rape our children. What is wrong with you people who thinks this is ok to act like a mad man put people lives in danger, the police did their job if they didn't maybe there would have been a larger body count, so thank you las vegas police for doing your job and only killing the bad guy.
It's so simple people-when Metro tells you to do something, do EXACTLY what they say... end of story.
Remember Darling was drunk and caused the cop to crash....
just taking out the garbage.
One more reason to shop at Sam's Club...
Terrible situation for everyone involved. If the story is correct, it was all caused by an irresponsible gun owner. I agree with the person above that said that if you decide to carry a concealed weapon, you have a responsibility to act more carefully/responsibly than the average person. It sounds like this guy didn't do that, and paid the ultimate price. Sad that the cops were forced to do what they had to do.
Bracing myself for all of the cop haters out there, that think the 2nd amendment allows you to act like a jackass, instigate, and carry a weapon without any consequences. Based on the info in the article, the guy deserved what he got in my opinion. Still a very unfortunate situation for him and everyone else.
RIP to the deceased, but I really wish these folks who want to openly carry firearms would just stop. All they're doing is making responsible gun owners look bad.
He just needed to leave the business. It is the right of the business to refuse service.
Would it have been a problem for this guy to get a CCW and just carry his weapon that way?
The way I see it, there are two different stories here based on the responses. The first is a green beret is shopping at costco with his girlfriend or wife while also carring a gun possibly concealed (I've never seen the sign about no weapons)hears the order to vacuate the store because of a possible bomb scare or person with a gun. He leaves the store along with everyone else and at the door a cop is yelling at him to drop the weapon. He reaches for the weapon to drop it and the cop opens fire on him along with other cops and kills him. Another gun appears to be found later like in the movies planted by the cops to ad to the validity of the kill. The second is that this green beret is acting strange in the store damaging merchandise and pointing a gun. He hears the waring to evacuate the store and tries to leave hiding amid the customers and is spotted by metro and reached for his gun when confronted. The most amazing thing about this story is that this is the first time all year that metro hit someone that they were shooting at.
It was amazing Metro Officers made it safely to CostCo without getting into an traffic accident.
@ stage : how does carrying openly make "responsible" gun owners look bad ? Does open carry make me irresponsible? He did leave the business and promptly got himself shot, apparently his fault. ccw or oc, he would have still had the weapons.
@DennyVega
"Since your so knowledgable, maybe you can answer, has Metro ever had a bad shoot?"
Again, what does this mean? What ever internet translator you're using isn't spitting out the right thing on the English side, that or you're just illiterate.
Comment removed by moderator. Language.
@ xx
Exercising your rights by open carrying is not something that is accepted or understood by most of the citizens out there. You know that.
Instead, what you do is scare and intimidate those very same citizens. That is how you make responsible gun owners look bad.
He did not leave the store immediately upon being asked. Like many open carry folks, he took it upon himself to attempt to perform on-the-spot education when it was he himself who needed to be educated.
He was welcome to enjoy and exercise his rights, but the business had the right to refuse him service and ask him to leave the premises.
Thanks for keeping us safe, Metro! And for saving taxpayer dollars. Oscar needs it for his next project.
WOW! Glad I did my Costco shopping Friday night!!!
I am a friend of the girlfriend of the man that was shot. Although I was not there. The information that I was told was that they entered Costco looking for camping supplies. They man wasn't destroying any merchandise. An associate saw the mans weapon and told him that fire arms were not allowed in the store. The man responded to the associate that he was with the military and that he had his concealed weapons permit. The associate then walked away. Another customer had walked up to them stating the store was being evacuated. Shocked, the man and his girlfriend looked at each other and the man said "you don't think that their evacuating the store because of me?" His girlfriend responded "I don't think so" He then said to her, "lets go, I'm going to put my fire arm in the car." They proceeded to walk out to the car and the man was told to put his hands up. He did. The man and his girlfriend were screaming to the police officers that "he was with the military and had a permit for the fire arms." They also were screaming "don't shoot!" The man then went to lift his shirt up, NOT remove his gun, and he was shot three times from different officers and killed. I was not there however, this is what was I was told. They cuffed him and never tried to help the man after he was shot.
It's a touchy situation. The gentleman made a fatal mistake if in fact he moved his arms at all after they told him to put his hands up. It is to my understanding that this man had no intentions of dying in Costco that day,or suicide by cop, nor did he ever threaten anyone or destroy any property in Costco. They were simply walking out with the rest of the crowd wondering what was going on.
Shooting a man two more times after being down after the first shot is disturbing to me. Opening fire like that in a parking lot where others could have been killed is also disturbing. I respect the police and realize they risk their lives each and everyday.The man and his girlfriend were screaming "don't shoot!"Did the associate who spoke to the man report to the police when he called 911 that the gentleman stated he was with the military and had a concealed weapons license? If not, shame on him. A man serves our country,comes home safe and then is killed bymetro. Why the hell would this guy walk out of the store if he was in there to shoot to kill? Or for that fact create a hostage situation? Like I say to all my friends, "If you get pulled over in this town, never reach for your glovebox to take out your information. Keep your hands on the wheel or out the window when the officer approaches your car. You might get shot." My heart goes out to the family.
I don't live in Nevada so I am not familiar with the open carry provisions of your state (my state does not allow this). My question is; if two people in a public place are open carry armed and meet each other and one for whatever reason reaches down and grasps the butt of his weapon and the other draws, fires, and kills them and claims self defense (immediate fear of death) will he be tried in Nevada?
The fact that he was ex military is so irrelevant that it's retarded that it's even mentioned. If you have a concealed weapon keep it concealed or have attention drawn to you. Don't scream at the cops that you have a permit, just follow their orders and you wont be shot... simple.
Thank you j1979.
I seriously doubt all of the "eyewitness" reports that are being posted in here, let alone ones claiming to know the deceased. If you were telling the truth and want justice so bad, why aren't you on TV tonight testifying your stories in front of the world like most people instead of anonymously posting on the internet?
As for shooting the suspect who posed a threat to other people in the vicinity, it's honestly a no-win situation for the Officers. What if they had not have opened fire, and then the suspect managed to discharge a few rounds into the crowd injuring, if not killing innocent bystanders? You'd all still scream at the cops for NOT doing enough to stop the suspect before he killed those people. Instead Metro optioned on the side of safety and opened fire in order to neutralize the perceived threat against those peoples' safety. Damned if they do, and damned if they don't...
Furthermore when you exercise Open Carry, you still need to be responsible. Tucking a weapon into your waistband like some thug isn't wise. Aside from making you look more dangerous, you need to fully holster your firearm in order to prevent it's safe transport and to prevent an accidental discharge.
Not all of the facts have been officially released yet. So there is no way to condone nor condemn Metro's actions. Certainly however if what they are saying is true and the man refused to obey the officers' orders, let alone displayed a firearm and disobeyed their orders, then yes, they acted appropriately.
How sad.
Thanks for the heads up j1979.
to to mental midgets bringing up the 2nd Amendment and open carry laws in NV, etc. the last time I checked the NV criminal statutes it was against the law do destroy private property.
Vegas is now less another unstable wack job with a gun, GREAT job Metro!
"Not following orders" and shooting and killing someone for that - unless the officer/citizen/whoever absolutely, truly feared for their lives or the lives of others - is committing a capital crime. The situation has to be far, far beyond someone disagreeing with the cops in question. Imminent danger of life or property is required for use of lethal force.
Folks... the military does not issue weapons for serviceman to carry around in public. Being a member of the armed forces does not give you anymore rights to carry a weapon than the average citizen.
@j1979
Thanks for sharing what appears to be a more plausible version of the incident.
Perhaps a cellphone video from a witness and/or a security recording will help reveal what specifically took place.
The story indicated the establishment was busy with an estimated 20 eyewitnesses in the vicinity of the shooting -- yet NOT ONE eyewitness version of this incident was included?
Why weren't the fresh details directly provided to the press by the homicidal officers' involved immediately following the incident?
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Interesting info from j1979...
I have absolutely no qualms with Metro's mission.
And it is a tough one.
ALL due respect should go out to our Men in Blue.
That said, one could have the opinion that where there's smoke, there's FIRE.
I think it's fair to ask...
Is it something to do with their TRAINING?
Are they lacking proper response/engagement techniques?
The copper walks up and taps the guy on the shoulder... WHAT HAPPENS NEXT???
In this case, and often enough in other cases, it's another dead guy.
I think it's fair to ask the question "is Metro properly trained and adequately equipped to deal with "WHAT HAPPENS NEXT."
Of course, we're second-guessing.
Facts aren't necessarily all in evidence.
I hope we hear "the rest of the story" in it's unvarnished TRUTH.
stevem retorts;
"just taking out the garbage."
Typical non-thinking, uninformed, NutJob, knee-JERK,
reactionary commentary from the stevem's.
Justified.
Manslaughter.
What happens when Costco's tapes do notmatch Metro's story? A= The story will change or B-the tapes are lost or did not tape the incident. Either way Metro gets away with it.
An interesting tid bit on shootings in Minnesota which is much larger than Nevada.
"According to BCA data, 11 people in Minnesota last year were killed by law enforcement officers, and 10 were wounded. In 2008, four were killed and five wounded, and five were killed and nine wounded in 2007."
Minnesota's population: 5,266,214
Nevada's population: 2,643,085
None of these shootings even resemble a shooting in Nevada.
Odds that the store tapes will "malfunction" for some unexplainable reason?
I'm betting the bag men have already taken care of it.
To tslennon: Perhaps you ,should check your facts. Just like the general public Metro officers have different backgrounds. One recent graduate from the academy has both undergraduate and graduate degrees. How about you?
To j1979: As I said above, my girlfriend witnessed the deceased moving through Costco with his gun drawn and will happily testify to that fact. She holds mutliple degrees, is a corporate executive and is well trained in the use of firearms.
Too many of you folks are angry, petty, vindicative, authority hating little people who seem to substitute fact for fiction and are awfully quick to judge Metro without all the facts or you seem to ignore the facts available.
Why would someone move through Costco with a drawn gun endangering the lives of everyone there? Was it stupidity or insanity?
Who's to say girlfriend didn't see a cop waving a gun in the store rather than the deceased? Even if she did see the deceased "with his gun drawn" in the store, the shooting took place outside the store, no? Did girlfriend witness the actual shooting?
And college degrees, like badges (which sucks for you, most likely) do not make people more credible. By the tone of your "authority hating little people" remark, I'd say you're the one who is not credible.
You do not have the right to carry your firearm onto someone else's private property, regardless of how many permits you have. If it is Costco's policy not to allow firearms and the person carrying was informed of that fact then he has no excuse for not leaving immediately.
Second amendment rights or no, if you carry a gun around you are asking for trouble. Guns exist for a reason and it's not their deterrent value. Carry a gun and sooner or later somebody is going to get shot. It's that simple. No sympathy here.
Good job Metro,...as for the other "experts" on here go look in the closet for your CB radios and start using them again,...your filling up blog space with incoherent babbling
Today we are learning the dead man was not destroying merchandise, nor causing a disruption in the store. We now know he did not draw his gun in the store or have it in his hand. We know he was a Westpoint graduate and an retired officer.
Metro has spun it self a nice yarn but in the end it is manslaughter.
I believe it is to early to judge. It is just sad. Sad that a man died. Sad that someone will live with fact that, even if justified, they took a human life. It is just sad! My sympathies to all.
There will be an investigation..
The facts will come out..
No matter what the facts reveal the results will be..
Police shooting JUSTIFIED..
However..The family may receive a large settlement from Metro as has been done many times before after a civil case is filed..The beat goes on.
For the "good job metro" crowd.
The bottom line is that you will, as taxpayers, be paying for this and Yant's "good work" to the tune of millions in the civil settlements.
So "good job" metro we love to pay millions due to your justified actions.
Strong words from "peaches" on this shooting. How accruate? We will know, soon.
opps, did I write "justified?", maybe "excusable"? But hey in any other State it is called manslaughter.
pgctg141...
As okra explained to pragmatist; you ain't all that.
Opinions.
Just because yours is different does not make it right, or any more credible.
Again, because of your tone, it'll be assumed to be LESS credible.
Hermit,
Thanks for sharing, I've been wondering when someone would do a comparison to another metro.
This line of your statement is what makes me wonder if these Metro Officers are responding/reacting appropriately to the situations;
"None of these shootings even resemble a shooting in Nevada."
BINGO!!!!!!!
THAT is the conundrum...
NOWHERE do so many people get offed by the police
under such curious circumstances.
NO ONE would question Metro on good shootings if
they weren't so... well, UNUSUAL.
2 words we hear a lot, and may apply here;
Furtive movements.
A wise man once warned: We must remember that the police are recruited from the criminal class.
The 2nd gun found at the hospital is strange.
You would think he was searched while waiting medical attention. Either they put others at risk by not searching him or the 2nd gun is just a story to help justify the shooting.
It doesn't seem clear if he had open carry or concealed carry but plenty of posters are making judgments one way or another. Also the story does not say if he had a concealed carry permit, blue card(s), number of rounds, number of magazines, etc.
If he was asked to leave because company policy does not permit the carry of weapons then he should have.
IMO the security guards actions helped lead to the death of one shopper. If you have a dispute of a customer over having a carry weapon in the store than tell the police that. By saying we have a out of control man in the store will get a different response. Then with the fake bomb scare. It have been a different person taking there gun out because of the bomb scare and out of control rush of people for the door.
The second gun indeed is very, very strange. Opens more questions of how the police handled this situation. How could the police miss a second gun? Tapping a suspected crazed gun man on shoulder is equally interesting?
Again, hands up assume the position and let the police do there job. Who really needs to carry around 2 semi auto pistols in a Costco? You are just looking for trouble. Sorry you are dead. Maybe the next gun toting person will listen. not.
Yes these are good observations. People should keep an open mind about this until the evidence comes forward. Just because people wear a badge does not make them good or evil. People are individuals and there are just as many criminals with badges as there are on the streets. Other things to think about. If he had a gun drawn with people around they would have shot him instantly not tap him on the shoulder. Now if they wanted to lure him into drawing his weapon (or make it look like he was going for a gun) there is a tactic they use. You bombard him with questions and then shoot him when he moves. It goes like this: What are you doing here sir? Can I see some ID? Drop the weapon! Then fire on him. They way this works is the person begins to reach for id, as he is answering the first question, he is told to drop the weapon and this creates confusion as to what to do next,normally they keep going for the ID or start moving their hand towards the officer to say stop either way they can open fire on them. There is a growing trend by civil servants to teach Americans not to carry guns. This may be justified or it may be murder. Wait and see.
Petef those are what I call self protecting words. You want to justify what happened to make yourself feel safe.. ...that it could not happen to you (because you are not stupid enough to carry a gun etc.). Instead you should be asking questions.
One cop yells; "hands up", the second yells "get on the ground" and the third yells "put the gun (from its holster) down".....you are screwed! bagged and tagged!
Metro kills a white CCW dittohead veteran in Summerlin and the teaparty/bags are in a tizzy. When it was the black man in the hood with the furtive movement, the TBs dittoheads were cheering Metro on. Just check the archives of this paper. What goes around comes around.
Good job Metro, one less listener to the Alan Stock Republican talk radio show.
...mred, I am sure I speak for most...you are a disgusting person...
tortious - there is a law against destroying property in a store. And once the police are called if you have a gun, put it down, raise your arms and wait. I'm glad Metro did the right thing.
the police helicopter was there before the man even got outside and there were already no less than 7 units on property... you don't get that kind of attention from doing nothing.
Please keep in mind that there is no confirmation that anyone posting here is telling the truth about being related to the deceased man or being an eyewitness. Also, eyewitness testimony is well known as the most unreliable form of evidence in court as people are unreliable. So anyone jumping to conclusions about what occurred based on what so called 'eyewitness' posters here wrote are being, at best, foolish.
Finally, the introduction of firearms into public spaces just raises the level of fear, anger, and stupidity to new heights. Anyone carrying weapons is exhibiting a kind of paranoia that makes them not worth knowing.
j1979 - you don't reach to raise your shirt when the police are pointing a gun at you. A military man should have known that. Keep your arms in the air and you won't get shot. The police don't know this guy military or not. They don't know the girlfriend. They only know the guy is reaching toward his gun.
Is it so easy for armchair quarterbacks to say what they think the police should do. If this guy had pulled out his gun and shot innocent bystanders you'd be all over Metro for NOT shooting him.
What is all this talk about a collge degree, I know a lot of college educated people who don't have enough common sense too fill a shot glass. If as I have read the police were close enogh too tap him on the shoulder, why not taze him, or use the choke hold from behind they are so known for or maybe just stick a gun in his back and tell him to drop his weapon.
Let's just hope the Costco tape tells us the real story. I'm betting Metro handled it wrong.
Gun rights? I got that. But TWO guns? If that's true then I don't get it. How many "legally" carrying gun owners have two guns when going out in a crowded public venue? Doesn't make sense. Can't blame the police if these facts are correct... it's their duty to discern what his intentions were... for the protection of the public. He should have known that carrying meant a higher level of cooperation if confronted by police... if his intentions were innocent, that is.
TV station is reporting this guy was a West Point graduate and a former real estate person, a person trained to kill in large scale. I am glad Obama has increased the funding for PTSD nut cases.
Purgatory, when the "UNARMED" black guy got a bullet in the face for the phony "furtive" movement, you supported his killing and backed Metro, now you are attacking our fine men and women that hold the thin blue line.
When you have a Costco clerk say the guy was trashing the store and brandishing two automatic guns (which have a higher rate of fire than the revolver type) there to pick-up his pain medication for his back, you have a certifiable nut case.(a trained West Point professional person trained to kill large numbers of people in War.)
Good job Metro -
(gee the cops are only supposed to kill unarmed black people around MLK and Bonanza - not the West Pointers with CCWs in Summerlin)
There were video tapes at Costco and there were many eyewitnesses. Maybe, just maybe, when the inquest is done, we might get the truth on this one. Wait and see.
So did one cop say "drop the firearm" while another said "keep your hands up"?
It sounds like he was pulling his firearm to drop to the ground when he was shot, but there aren't enough available facts at this point to be sure.
Was he "brandishing", definition: to wave or flourish, his firearm? If so then I'm on the LEO side on this one.
In general, the more law abiding citizens in this city with open or concealed carry the safer it will be.
I can't even begin to respond to some of the obviously uneducated comments on this story. There just aren't enough hours in the day.
I agree Bluv some people think you should die for carrying a gun in public when in fact it makes a safer society. We need to wait and see and view all sides with skepticism. Don't just believe what you read. Ask questions using logic and reason. People are making comments to try to justify that such a thing would not happen to them. Maybe they are right, but maybe just maybe they are not.
Please mred, metro does not need your embellishments. Metro is quite capable of spinning their story without your "brandishing two weapons" when it has be disclosed he never brandished one weapon and the second weapon was not even found until after he was dead. And it has been determined this man never "trashed" let alone disrupted anyone or anything at Costco. And the whole pain medication argument is laughable, for now.
Good job metro, we can not wait to pay the man's family taxpayer money for the settlement...that is if there is any money left after the Zant's muder settlement.
mred, first I heard this guy was brandishing two firearms. Were did you get this info?
DennyVega-Don't' be so stupid as to take mred seriously.
It's amazing how many people on here are siding with the "white" suspect. If this was a black guy or a hispanic...none of the posts would be defending him. This guy walked into a Costco with two semi-automatic weapons and began destroying merchandise. His intent was probably a lot more than that. We could have been looking at a situation where he just started shooting people in the store...something we've seen before. I don't want to hear about the "right to bear arms". If you do what he did, and you reach for your gun when an officer orders you to the ground...what do you expect.
This was a bad guy with bad intentions. None of the witnesses are defending him. It is amaizing how many of you are, though. Again, if he was black or brown, you would all be saying negative things about him (e.g., he was an illegal, he was from the "hood", etc). And by the way...I am white.
The TV, and the TV is always right. I'm not done yet - just one more twist of the sardonic knife.
He was buying SURVIVALIST GEAR at Costco, and maybe he was listening to the RUSH REPLAY or GLEN BECK PODCAST on his IPOD and didn't hear the order to drop his weapons.
Costco, why would you want to release tapes that might make you subject to a lawsuit...best destroy them. (Maybe it will be like the Gibbon's parking garage tapes...those tapes just seem to always come-up showing nothing.)
Who carries 2 firearms to Costco? (as per the article above)
If he indeed had a CCW permit and was carrying a CONCELAED weapon....how did anyone even know he was armed?
Thousands of Clark County residents carry handguns everyday without incident so the chances that this escalated without any provocation seem slim.
Believe it or not folks...the police do not relish the thought of shooting people. Taking another human beings life is not treated lightly even in Nevada. Until you are in those cops shoes, at that moment...shut the hell up.
Mred...not only are you disgusting, you are wrong and most likely too stupid to even know it...dunno why I need to defend the fact you are a horrible stupid person, but here is what I wrote about the poor young man's 'furtive movement'...mred, stay home on election day please...again, you disgust me...
Hey Janice, mostly I would agree with your wait until the truth comes out mantra...but Janice, the young man at the morgue cannot wait for it...we are rapidly becoming a police state, where what used to be considered bad behavior has become a criminal offense...mostly from some politician's arbitrary law...most 'criminals' are captured and prosecuted arbitrarily...too many 'arbitraries' for me, Janice...our prisons are full of young men who have enough problems and don't deserve to have 'felon' attached to them for the remainder of their lives...like me Janice, you should be more fearful of the police and the supposed criminal justice system than of a young man who uses or sells marijuana...much more fearful...
to peaches who claims will be will "paying" for this..please list all of the civil law suits in the past 15 years that Metro has lost as a result of justified shootings.
from the sounds of a lot of the people here it would have been better if he had shot and killed some people first at Costco and then Metro would have been justified to fire on him...freaking idiots
"Thousands of Clark County residents carry handguns everyday without incident so the chances that this escalated without any provocation seem slim." - elken
Indeed thousands go un-"tapped" by "provoking orders" from law enforcement representatives without incident.
Yet, such "taps" can be played, I mean, parlayed into hundreds of thousands for surviving homicide family members.
Ref: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug...
FWIW: A second firearm is commonly known as a B.U.G. (Back-Up Gun) - while exercising second amendment right's should never be contingent upon some card's permission.
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Did they announce "clean-up on isle 3"?
Wow mred, you have just shown the world what a complete a-hole you are and basically lost any and all credibility (if anyone actually gave you any in the first place). You posted the words "Good job Metro" because it was for your cause. After all the ranting and raving you have done. You did this because you believe the person who was shot was on the other side of the political table from you. Your a loser and you need to just go away. And please don't hesitate to call the police when you have an issue at your house or in your life. They really don't care that you are the a-hole that you are, they will come and help you anyway.
Cant fault Metro. Remember Amir Crump?
Most often, I ignore mental deviates like (mr)red.
Well you maybe able to keep me off your Right Wing Radio Talk Show, but I guess I can point out the hypocrisy of the dittoheads and BeckBrains here.
It is as plain as the nose on your Klan hooded face. Unarmed Black guy shot in face on Bonanza, the dittoheads cheer hooray.
White military guy armed with CCW weapons shot in Summerlin, and the same gaggle of nickle and dime store flag wavers and tin-pot patriots cry foul.
Your problem is you think a right wing radio station that calls itself a "news station" provides news ---but it provides nut bar Republican propaganda that you lap-up.
Also, military veterans have higher rates of: suicide, criminal behavior, domestic violence, substance abuse issues and financial problems. The idea that the military builds character is silly. Obama is right, we need more funding for PTSD cases.
The guy with mental problem was at Costco.
On that one mred you are right, PTSD is serious and since metro has a policy of hiring low level combat experienced ex-military types they should get some help from the feds?
"Honey I need to go to Costco today and pick a few things up". OK honey, lets go and don't forget your 9MM Semi-Automatic Handgun sweetheart. Oh, thanks honey, I almost forgot!!
If you need a semi-automatic weapon to go shopping at a Costco in Summerlin then you must need a Grenade Launcher to go shopping at a Sams Club near the Cannery!!
If you carry 2 guns in public, for any reason, and begin destroying merchandise, there is going to be a bad ending.
Dear Metro Police: I am behind all police 100%, but please, invest a few thousand dollars in Tasers. I will guarantee you guys, you wont have as many deadly shootings by cops, thank you
To Alberto reference tasers u need to google el paso police officer angel barcena. Metro already has tasers assigned to everyone in patrol, but if u read about that officer, would u choose to use a taser on someone with a gun?
Alberto, every metro officer has a taser. You don't take a taser to a gun fight or you will lose.
Mred, just keep making a shooting into a partisan issue and keep making yourself look just as stupid as those you criticize. When the facts come out, this shooting will more than likely be justified, just as the shooting of the "student" who was selling marijuana as his side gig.
rofl denver21...
Claimed witness accounts:
I saw the whole thing go down from start to finish and the cops were trigger happy the guy never had a chance. when this guy exited costco he was looking around for who the cops were yelling at and when he realized he had 4 guns pointed at him he freaked out and was attempting to throw his gun on the ground, the gun was in a holster and one of the cops shot and he dropped the gun and then the other cops decided to finish him off even tho he allready had dropped the gun. There were people all around this guy when they opened fired I think the guy was no danger to anybody he had no idea what was going on like everyone else the cops never game him a chance. These police had every chance to tackle him down because he had no idea what was going on his gun was in a holster and was in his pants attached to his belt but they shoot and ask questions later I personally think these cops need to be held accountable for his death. I seems like you not only need to watch out for the bad guys but the police as well. I bet my life savings he had a concealed weapons permit and he got killed because of it.
I was there, and I never saw this guy do anything with his gun (outsidewhere he was shot). When the policeman yelled, "drop it," he had to reach for the gun to get it so he could drop it. The police started shooting immediately after "drop it" was yelled. As for the statement that he endangered people inside the store, I have not heard--yet--that he actually brandished or waved his gun around inside the store. I believe people just saw that he had a gun in his waist or holster. Fortunately, the cameras atCostco should eliminate some of the confusion in eyewitness reports.
Here is a post from a first hand witness that I just read about. I believe this person that wrote this over people that are just sitting on their computers and going along with the cops and with other ignorant people.
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"I couldn't agree with you more....My wife and I were 7 or 8 feet away from the shooting as were the police. We were to the suspects immediate right. We heard and saw the 3 police officers shouting to the man in question to 'get on your knees' several times. At that point the man appeared somewhat stunned by the commotion and shouting of the police. His Right arm went up in a defenseless position and it appeared his left arm appeared to be going up but there was NO gun in his hand. He was taserd and shot at the same time. At no time did the man in question ever raise his voice, shout an obscenity or become confrontational with the police. We saw the disabled man stooping to his right facing us with what appeared to be a bullet wound in his upper chest with blood coming from the wound and immediately his eyes became glossy as he began to convulse. At this point he was no threat to anyone, both hands were in full view of us and there was no gun. As he was down, the police continued to shout 'put the gun down' several times...but there was no gun in his hand as we had full vantage point view. The injured man was having agonal respirations, he was down when the second volly of bullets rang out. There was no doubt in question that following the second barrage of bullets the man was dead. His girlfriend was to the back side of us and began to scream.....why did you kill him, he is a military man with a license to carry a concealed weapon. You didn't need to kill him....you didn't need to kill him.
An officer then came up to the injured man who in my opinion was a 'dead' man', was cuffed with his hands behind his back and no attempt by the officer to determine if the man was alive or dead. No apparent life saving aid was given to the 'downed' man. The man was totally lifeless when the Paramedics arrived on scene. I was absolutely surprised to see that no attempt at aggressive ACLS was engaged. They simply just picked up the body like a 'sack of potatoes' and hurled him onto the gurney and into the ambulance This was a crime scene.... the crime scene was violated. One of the paramedics who attended to an injured elderly lady said the man was dead. There was a dead man in front of Costco. What nobody is talking about is that there were many many spectators, many like ourselves within just a few feet of the victim when the shots rang out. It seems to me that the greater danger was posed not by the victim but by the police who fired many shots in the vicinity of the innocent public. I agree with you, I hope the media and your friends family can get their hands of Costco's Camera's which will indeed tell the rest of the story. Also it must be confirmed whether the second gun supposedly found by the victims side was indeed also registered to him as a licensed conceal and carry.
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This whole incident was a monumental tragedy; a tragedy for the family and friend and also a tragedy for the involved officers who were pushed into a needless confrontation that reached hysterical proportions due to the overreaction of certain employees and bystanders. This was a needless death.
In summary it is our opinion that the victim did not pose an immediate threat to the public.....and in the final analysis was a case of excessive force"
I was at Costco and saw the shooting. The police officers were outside the exits with guns drawn. A helicopter was overhead. I don't know what the dead man was doing inside the store. An enormous crowd was coming out of the store because they were evacuating. I was standing about 20 feet from one officer who had his gun out and drawn. Suddenly, he yelled, "Drop it," and immediately started shooting. Three times. Then two other officers started shooting. I believe each of the other officers shot once. I think there were about five shots. It's a miracle no one else got hit. This was in the middle of a crowd. Was the shooing justified? I don't know. I didn't see the dead man do anything. But I certainly would not feel comfortable wearing a firearm around Metro.
Wow! Me and my wife were in the parking lot and getting ready to walk inside. One cop car at the front door with its lights on. Another customer walks out and says not to go in, someone has a gun in there. We turn around and walk back to our car. We start telling people not to go in. Parking lot was packed. Lots of people start walking out the front door to the parking lot. I drive around the parking lot, being nosy. A police helicopter is hovering above. 2 more cop cars pull into the lot and start to park. I hear 2 gunshots and then less than a second later, another 7-8 shots ring out. I get the hell out of the parking lot. Then here comes tons of cop cars up Charlston to the Costco. Can't wait to see the news and what happened. I hope no cops and no civilians were injured. Hopefully they killed the idiot with the gun.
me and my mom were at costco today. unbelieveable day. I will not forget today. I glad that me and my mom are alive today. AND everyone else at costco. me and my mom saw the cpos kill the guy right in front of us. we were sitting because we thought we were going to go back in. I thought it was practice fire drill. the cops shot the guy right in front of us. we were so scared. the gun man died at the scene. I can't believe it!!! i would like to know what the gun man had in his head. was he planning to hurt people or what. I'm glad everyone at coscto is ok. Thank you GOD WE ARE ALL ALIVE!
I sure w
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me and my mom were at costco today. unbelieveable day. I will not forget today. I glad that me and my mom are alive today. AND everyone else at costco. me and my mom saw the cpos kill the guy right in front of us. we were sitting because we thought we were going to go back in. I thought it was practice fire drill. the cops shot the guy right in front of us. we were so scared. the gun man died at the scene. I can't believe it!!! i would like to know what the gun man had in his head. was he planning to hurt people or what. I'm glad everyone at coscto is ok. Thank you GOD WE ARE ALL ALIVE!
I sure w
No.. I only saw the officer tap him, demand his hands on his head, step back, weapon drawn. Then I saw the guy do something with his right arm.. looked like his elbow was coming up and out.. almost like someone taking his hands out of his pocket or something..from his hip area. It all happened so quick.. that's when I heard the shots. People screamed and ran. Then I saw at least two other officers, weapons drawn, but I didn't actually see the shots themselves. A few seconds later I saw the guy on the ground, and other guy to the side of him on the ground. That's when I moved back, farther into the store.. then they closed the doors.
No.. I only saw the officer tap him, demand his hands on his head, step back, weapon drawn. Then I saw the guy do something with his right arm.. looked like his elbow was coming up and out.. almost like someone taking his hands out of his pocket or something..from his hip area. It all happened so quick.. that's when I heard the shots. People screamed and ran. Then I saw at least two other officers, weapons drawn, but I didn't actually see the shots themselves. A few seconds later I saw the guy on the ground, and other guy to the side of him on the ground. That's when I moved back, farther into the store.. then they closed the doors.
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We were in the back of the store and notified by an employee to evacuate the building. It seemed they were trying to get evryone out of the building as quietly, calmly, and quickly as possible. Shots rang out when we were about 50' from the building. We got to the car and out of the area as quickly as possible.
The biggest problem seemed to be customers not exiting the area as quicly as possible. Many were congregating at the entrance. Hanging around to see what was going on. Personally I thought if Costco was going to ask customers to leave on a Saturday that it was not a drill and we needed to get out of the way so whatever the problem was could be delt with.
It was chaotic and people were leaving as fast as they could. I'm sure all these comments haven't been reported. I know my wife, daughter and I got away as fast as we could. My vantage point was exiting the store directly behind the individual. As I approached the exit I saw an officer with a gun drawn but pointed toward the ground (it was then I knew something serious was happening). Just before the individual and I exited, a man in a black shirt (probably a Costco employee) jutted his arm out in front of me and pointed to the individual in question (the man in front of me). The officer asked, "Is that him?" and the person kept pointing at him. The officer immediately raised his weapon and began yelling at the top of his voice at the man to "put your hands up" and "get down on the ground". He yelled it several times. Contrary to others posted comments, the man knew he was being addressed and turned to face the officer. The rest of us were faced outward out of the building, but he turned and faced him. The officer continued yelling at him to get his hands up and get on the ground. He did not comply. I saw the man's hands move as if to get something from under his shirt (he was wearing a button down shirt that was not tucked in). I immediately moved to get away, moving to the left of him and the officers along with my wife and daughter. I did not hear him say anything, but the officer continued to yell his commands.
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Then, shots ... first two, a short pause then several more (4-5, I guess). Then they stopped, and I turned to see the man standing for a moment, I then turned away again as an older women in front of me was not moving as fast as I was due to having a walker. I looked back again to see the man face-down on the ground. My family and I ran to get into the parking lot. All of the above happened in a matter of 5-7 seconds. In retrospect, not knowing the man's intentions and not actually knowing he had a gun, the officers, I believe, acted in the public's best interest. I witnessed the man face the officers (acknowledging they were addressing him) ignore their commands and make a move to his belt area ( I saw him lift the bottom of his shirt). There were many people still behind in the doorway. If his intentions were to have a firefight, the officers acted first and saved everyone. It was so loud and chaotic in a confined area. I, for one, appreciate their actions.
My husband and I were there with our two daughters. We were walking out from the covered area when the guns started to go off, we ran and hid behind a truck. It was a very scary situation to be in. We should have turned around when we saw the chopper in the sky circling Costco as well as the people telling us to leave.
My mother and I were pulling in the north side of the building and we saw two cop cars, and one got out and had a huge rifle and we heard him from inside of our car screaming at people to get down and we were about 20 yards away from the entrance and people were laying on the ground and running for cover than we herd about 7-8 gunshots.
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Just got home from Costco - watched this unfold from about 30 ft. We were told very quietly (by another customer, not Metro or store employees) to exit the building. We walked past an armed Metro officer on the way out the door who had his gun out and seemed to be checking everyone leaving. We were told nothing. I asked a couple of Costco employees if they knew what happened. They did not and seemed unconcerned. We stood by the front to see if we were going to go back in and retrieve our cart. We heard Metro yell a command and shots (5?) rang out. We ran. We saw, what appeared to be, one male deceased on the ground. Another Costco employee told us, as we were driving away, that there had been someone shooting inside the store by the pharmacy. Apparently the pharmacy girl was locked inside and called police. Don't know any more. Awful event for everyone. Prayers to everyone.
There were about 50 customers still in the store headed toward the exit when the shooting occurred. I was one of them with my son and mother-in-law in a motorized wheelchair. Imagine the panic and chaos of people running back in from the gunshots and trying to figure out how to get your family out of the way of a shooter or a rushing crowd. They brought down the exit door and we were in by the food court there for about 20 minutes before they led us out the north emergency exit. Nobody told us if it was one shooter or more, if we were safe in the store or stuck in there with another crazy.
Those who knew the victim -
He was a great friend of mine and I hope that you will be willing to help clear his name. What the news is doing is sickening to me. The truth will come out and if we are lucky maybe some justice. These cops need to go to prison for killing an innocent man.
I know the "suspect" who was shot. He is an upstanding professional who had a concealed weapons license. He is NOT crazy and he DID NOT point the gun at anyone. This is an example of how news can be absolutely paint an incorrect picture of the scene. I am just so sad that I lost a friend and upstanding citizen who served his country because officers were TOO GOD DAMN TRIGGER happy. Metro police should be held accountable for this!!! RIP...
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Who cares what really happened. The "coroner's jury" will find this "justifiable."
I cant past judgement on events I did not witnessed, (hopefully a video from the event will shed some light on this incident, but nowhere did i read that the suspect pointed any gun on anybody, this gives police officers sufficient time to disable a human being by way of the taser gun, instead of discharging several shots to the chest, I'm just saying.... the NYPD is involved in more severed threatening situations, and they successfully avoid deadly force, maybe metro police should take a look at how other police departments handle these type of situations
There was a simple way to avoid this whole stupid situation...don't carry weapons into a store or when in public. This guy would be alive right now if not for his obvious paranoia.
Metro is a second rate police department in a now large City. the population expanded but the police department is not modern, or well trained. Want a end to all this get rid of the people who run it and start over.
@alberto3k "The officer ordered the man to the ground, but the gunman refused, police said. Neville said the gunman then pulled out the gun in his waistband, prompting three officers to fire multiple shots."
Guns beat tasers everytime. Pull out a gun and you can expect to be shot. The guy shouldn't have pulled out his gun for any reason. He shouldn't have reached toward it. He should have stood still and waited for the police to relieve him of the weapon that he shouldn't have brought into the store anyway.
@Harley I'm sure your friend was a good friend and I'm sure his family is devastated, but posting a lot of hearsay doesn't change the fact that your friend made several mistakes.
Harley...you are such a liar. I know who you are and you were NOT at Costco yesterday. You just made up everything you said. Shame on you.
On the other hand....if we pass a law like Arizona?
Metro would need more ammo.
It is ignorant to start spouting off gun toting laws. This is a clear cut case of someone who wanted to commit suicide.
juansanchez,
Can you describe how Metro is a second rate department? In what are they not properly trained? Sounds to me like Metro protected the citizens at Costco by not giving the man a chance to kill or shoot anyone. Sounds like great police work.
Manslaughter is NOT great police work.
I shop at this Costco on a regular basis with my family.
Thank you, Metro, for keeping us safe. I am glad that the only one injured was the individual who was carrying guns and refusing to follow directions from the police!
For additional information:
http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp...
Did you know employer's routinely use facebook data as well as financial information such as credit scores to profile and screen potential employees?
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You're allowed to carry a gun in public places, with a permit, but why the need in a Costco? This would have all been avoided if the gun wasn't seen.
What purpose or need was there for a gun in a store? Senseless death.
I don't blame Metro. They reacted without the luxury of dialogue. That's their job and no doubt did what they felt they had to.
He had 2 guns, he was destroying merchandise. He was not "just another customer". When he went for the gun, the cops responded properly. Does ANYONE remember the Albertson's shooting on West Sahara a few years back. Several employees and customers were KILLED by a gunman. Metro responded properly to avoid a repeat of that incident. Why 2 guns? Most CCW holders (I am not one) know the meaning of CONCEALED. Concealed means "out of sight". His actions got him where he is today. Can't blame Mrtro for doing their job. Meanwhile, The Bakersfield Police this weekend shot a 15 year old gang banger in a stolen car to death after a pursuit and attempt to run the officers down. His family is crying foul too. The rest of us just feel a little safer.
Not a huge loss to society I'm afraid.
Good job Metro - someone pulls a gun, end of story.
Another illegal alien thug...
What type of automatic weapon would be appropriate for picking up a few items at Walgreens??
"Honey have you seen my Heckler & Koch MP5 sub-machine gun, I am going to pick up some milk at Von's".
peaches,
so, if officers have a gun pointed at them and they fire first to avoid being shot, that is manslaughter?
A few comments:
1. The individual that was reportedly destroying merchandise was not Erik Scott, the guy that the police killed.
2. Scott had a concealed weapons permit and was a former Army officer with weapons training who was now a successful businessman.
3. At least one eyewitness to the incident claims that Scott never pulled a weapon or talked back to the officers, but instead raised his hands.
I would strongly suggest comments hold off on making uninformed comments until further details emerge and possible video tape collected.
There is a very strong possibility that a Metro cop may have prematurely started firing with two other officers following suit after hearing the first round.
I am a neighbor of the Father of the man killed yesterday outside of Costco in the LV area. I have met the son. Good young man. Solid citizen. I was called by the Father this afternoon so he could talk to me. His wife is not there due to her Father having died in the past two weeks. After talking with the Father of the Young Man (YM) I did some quick lookups on the internet to see the story being presented by the press.
Thanks for your information "j1979." The information I received from the Father was the same as you stated. Obviously he wasn't there and is dependent on what he is hearing from other family members and friends of the family.
I was rather amazed at the reporting by the press. There had to be many people very close to the YM at the time of the incident and there was not any apparent reliable information from any of them.
It is important that those who are actual witnesses, make their information available to the press, any attorney representing the family of the YM, and carefully write down their information as quickly as possible, because it can become distorted from hearing many different views of the happenings.
The individual whose girlfriend is an executive and has experience with firearms is giving information that is considerably different from most of what has been revealed by the girlfriend of the YM.
What is the truth? How do you eliminate those that are seeking their 15 minutes of fame? Was there a second gun really found on the YM? (BUG as someone previously stated.) I am concerned that whatever the truth is, that it be found, and that those that have really seen, from close-up what occurred, come forward.
Having met the YM a few times when he visited his parents house, I have a bias. However, what my opinion is, is not important. What the facts are is what is important. That the image of this YM or the Police Officers not be pre-judged is important. Was the YM acting in good faith? Were the Police Officers acting in good faith? It is important that the citizens of the LV area have confidence in their law enforcement agency or learn that this was not an irrational YM. If the Police were wrong then hopefully that agency will be forthright in the investigation and report the findings as they truly happened and if there is an agency problem, get it cleaned up so they are respected by the community they serve.
mhf from Colorado Springs
Peaches,
I have mailed your application for chief of police since you clearly are more knowledgeable than any lowlife beat cop that has ever walked the streets of LV. Congratulations on your upcoming cleansing of all that is evil in the police department...hope it doesn't interfere with your other employment.
raygun44... shut up! Many white americans voted for a black president. I'm so sick of people using that as an excuse. GROW UP!
"freeze", "put your hands up", "freeze", "put your hands up", well, whats you want me to do? freeze or put my hands up? any veteran police officer has dealt with untrue reporting in the newspapers and untrue eye witness reports. the truth will come out.
SummerlinCC, you are no more qualified than the rest of us to comment, and you have no business telling us to "hold off" commenting as you also hide behind an anonymous identity.
I take your assertions with the same grain of salt as everyone else's.
Regardless of the outcome, I support Metro PD and I wish them the very best.
Question:
You hear about a potential shooter in the store. You are qualified to carry a CCW, and you are carrying at the time.
What do you do?
You cover your weapon without drawing it (just like Metro does all the time) while you asses the situation.
You move outside and Metro officers surprise you, point weapons at you and demand that you "drop it" or "put your hands up."
Now what?
Move your hand, and it looks like you're drawing. Raise your shirt to show your hand and it looks like you're drawing. If you don't move your hand, there's a good chance you'll get shot. If we assume that this guy was trying to protect himself, how does he get out alive?
Michael, I may or may not be more qualified than you to comment. If you have over 10 years of experience either in or representing law enforcement, you're more qualified than I am to comment. Otherwise, the truth is that I probably am more qualified.
I'm basing my comments on publicly available eyewitness reports as posted on blogs, Twitter, etc. as well as on media reports. They appear contradictory. Those that were standing close to Scott say that he was told to drop his weapon, while some standing further away from Scott said that he was shot for reaching for his weapon.
Given Scott's background, I think it's ridiculous to think that a successful businessman and former Army officer with weapons safety training and a valid Nevada concealed weapons permit walks into a Costco with his wife, goes shopping for nutritional supplements and then decides to walk outside the store to point his gun at first responders. Sorry, it just doesn't add up.
More than likely, Scott was more surprised than anyone about the police response and several eyewitness reports indicate that he was attempting to comply with police orders when he got outside. If one cop tells a suspect to disarm and other cops shoot the same suspect for trying to disarm, there's a problem with those giving the orders, not the person trying to comply with the orders.
I'm not saying that is what happened in this case. But what I am saying is that it is highly doubtful that Scott was ever a real threat. And if the Metro PD shot someone that was never a real threat, then some serious questions need to be raised about how they handled this situation.
By the way, it's not a matter of supporting Metro PD or not. It's a matter of ensuring that Metro PD is using proper tactics and communication. I have no doubt that the cops involved in the shooting privately realize that they made a mistake and feel bad about it. But unless you address the mistake, you can't prevent it from occurring again.
If they told him to drop a holstered weapon there is no way he can get out alive. You have to pick the weapon up to drop it. Only a person with cool nerves would stop and ask questions, but also possibly get shot in the process. People are saying he is stupid for having guns because it makes them feel good so they don't have to go around thinking there might be murders with badges out there. It an emotional response. If he didn't do this or that he would be alive,see it can't happen to me..see? right? Putting your head in a hole does not help anything.
Read the different stories on the web and then watch the video at channel 8. The weapon was not drawn when they told him to drop it, when he reached for it to drop it, they shot him. Read the stories guys. He did not have a chance in at all: http://www.8newsnow.com/global/story.asp...
He was not in the store with the gun drawn. No one was in danger. Read all the stories and the interview with the police themselves. There is no evidence presented that he destroyed merchandise either. The police never mention that. Too many Californians in Nevada freaking out about guns.
Summerlincc and marvel. Well done!I agree 100%
gmac and Harley. After speaking with her again. Police from all different angles were shouting different commands such as "put your hands up," g"get on the ground," "put your weapon down"
The man did put his hands up, the man then went to put his weapon on the ground but since it was still in the holster he had to reach to obey the commands of the officers. He was shoot and killed in cold blood before he could even reach it. Since when is it illegal to carry a weapon with a permit? Military or not. The man was LEGALLY caring AND had NEVER TOOK IT OUT IN THE STORE OR OUT OF THE STORE. Metro has to take a very serious look at this situation and admit to fault. Poor commands and communication on metros part. It's disturbing.
Pragamist, I hate to say it. My my girlfriend and her boyfriend were NEVER IN OR ANYWHERE NEAR THE FOOD COURT on that fatal day. Also,it's pretty hard to describe a handgun when it was NEVER taken out of it holster. I'm sure her testimony will hold up when the tapes are released. Mean while an innocent man was MURDERED. YES,I SAID IT. MURDERED! I have high respect for metro but this is one mistake that the people of Las Vegas will not let them cover up. Let the video tapes do all the talking if the people ever get to even see them. I'm glad your girlfriend has several degrees and you think that makes her an honorable person to testify. This guy served our country and you think he is someone without merit. Pathetic!
Pragamist, I hate to say it. My my girlfriend and her boyfriend were NEVER IN OR ANYWHERE NEAR THE FOOD COURT on that fatal day. Also,it's pretty hard to describe a handgun when it was NEVER taken out of it holster. I'm sure her testimony will hold up when the tapes are released. Mean while an innocent man was MURDERED. YES,I SAID IT. MURDERED! I have high respect for metro but this is one mistake that the people of Las Vegas will not let them cover up. Let the video tapes do all the talking if the people ever get to even see them. I'm glad your girlfriend has several degrees and you think that makes her an honorable person to testify. This guy served our country and you think he is someone without merit? Pathetic! Why don't you go over seas and have someone say that about you!
Well my personal opion is this: While I respect what any police force does for the community. I think the training should be changed. If the officer can walk up to a man standing next to his wife and tap him on the shoulder, than he can also say are you carrying a gun in a normal voice. If the man answers yes I am, then he can say, where is it, then ask the man to slowly turn toward other officers and extract the gun from his waist band and then figure out if he is a viable suspect are and innocent bystander shopping with a legal right to carry a firearm. I have had one or two situations where I had to cummunicate with our police, and am not easily intimadated; however that scream at the top of your lungs, "get down on the ground now" is so archaic. If the guy is bonkers and not corherent than fine scream commands to get hands up and get down on the ground. If he is showing absolutely no signs of threat, than have a conversation with him like a hostage negotiator would. Screaming at a person with exact orders only pisses him off. Any officer that has been on the force already has experience with this an knows it is not the best recourse! Combined with the confusion of asking people to leave the store, then being screamed at, combined with the fact he may have been just getting the gun out to hand it to the police. This could have been avoided. There are levels of threat, and there are levels of recourse to handle threat. Unfortuniately when they hire officers not all of them have the fine skills of determining the level of correct response to an immediate situation so they use the cover all method of total control at high volume. Which to just about anyone is an aggressive behavour elevator for everyone involed! Again I have respect for what our officers go thru on a daily basis. But in my opinion all officers should have negotiator training, along with a course in behavioral science, and psycology. All professional levels including police, should not get caught up in the everyday rat race mentality of just wanting to get their day over with. If you are a doctor, nurse,police officer, anyone that has a high level of protection or supervision and control of the human race and people in general, you have to exericise that compassion for preserving human life, and not get caught up in the everyday pitfalls of not giving 100% effort in what you are doing.
Don't carry a holstered weapon around that everyone can see and you won't have any problems. If you're so paranoid that you need to carry a weapon into Costco, make sure it isn't visible. Not only does your visible weapon cause concern for the public and the police, there's always the possibilty that some other macho nut sees it as a challenge and takes you out. So keep it CONCEALED.
Just because you have a right to do something doesn't make it right.
Carrying a gun into Costco was a stupid thing to do. What on earth could he have needed it for?
Regardless of whether the police were justified, this was a foreseeable outcome. This guy should have known that carrying a gun around like that could quite possibly lead to just such a confrontation, whether with police or with a private individual. Did he really think that carrying a gun would make a confrontation LESS likely?
seasing, there are many people that carry weapons with them wherever they go and for some off-duty cops and military personnel (and Scott was an former Army officer) it becomes as natural wearing a shirt.
It doesn't appear that Scott was flashing his gun at Costco. Instead, it appears that a Costco employee caught a glimpse of the gun and that Scott had informed the employee that he had a concealed weapons permit.
I understand that many people don't like the thought of anyone carrying a firearm, but the bottom line is that it is a Constitutionally-protected right recently re-affirmed by the Supreme Court.
Law enforcement officers must be trained to assess and maintain positive control over a situation. Based on the publicized eyewitness accounts (now made publicly available this morning in the Las Vegas Review Journal), there were apparently several problems with the police response on this call.
Officers were calling out contradictory commands to Scott. Nobody appeared to have positive control over the scene and it doesn't appear that the responding cops knew their department's own standard operating procedures for approaching a legally armed civilian. After the shooting, the police spokesman provided the media with information that now appears to be incorrect, indicating a problem with internal communications.
I'm the strongest support of law enforcement that you can find. But you also have to acknowledge when mistakes are made so that you can prevent them in the future.
If sign was posted that firearms are not allowed -- Costco and Metro win
If no sign -- victim's family wins.
Simple as that.
It is victim's duty to know if firearms are allowed inside. This avoids any problems or confusion that might arise in a group of customers -- and frankly is the reason for the policy -- to avoid these things from happening.
After reading all the comments, the sad reality is the victim assumed the risks associated with having a concealed weapon and entering into a store with a large number of people. When he was confronted by store security, the victim had the duty to clarify his situation. If he failed to do so or was "defensive," which is possible, he put himself and others at risk. I'm not judging the man's character, only that he failed to protect himself and others around him by failing to take the initiative to clarify.
"I'm sorry are guns not allowed here? I will go outside immediately and put my gun in my vehicle. Can I then return?"
"Oh, I'm sorry, I must have missed the sign. If you will walk outside with me, I'll put my gun in the car and then return."
Acting aggressively or defensively will get you killed.
"Look, I have a ccw permit. I'm not doing anything wrong" = dead man.
What a load of hogwash. Metro, fess up.
And all you people out there saying "just don't carry a gun" need to face reality. We live in a society where you must protect yourself.
See what a small misunderstanding with Metro did for this guy? He's dead.
"We live in a society where you must protect yourself."
From what? People with guns?
Don't you see the irony here?
"If sign was posted that firearms are not allowed -- Costco and Metro win
If no sign -- victim's family wins."
True, as it pertains to a civil suit against Costco. But regardless of whether or not Costo permits weapons, Metro PD still has the legal obligation to follow the customary practices of law enforcement and act reasonably, which they didn't appear to do.
Also, it's not clear whether the victim was ever approached by store security or was just told that guns weren't permitted by a sales clerk.
im gonna ask one question...
why do metro officers carry tasers...i have a strong hunch this guy may have been a perfect candidate for a taser and not a gun.
i damn well hope metro gets some flack about this shooting. if the CWP holder was simply raising his shirt and nothing more that is NOT an immediate threat until he puts his hand on his gun after pulling up the shirt.
cops in vegas are useless. their training is crazy stupid with their shoot to kill mentality. shoot to stop is proper training, not shoot to kill.
when will metro learn the difference and get INVESTIGATED BY THE FEDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Permit or no permit, sign or no sign, if the officer is close enough to tap this man on the shoulder then he should have been able to take control of the situation.
This crap of screaming at the top of your lungs does nothing but add chaos to a already bad situation.
Sorry metro this thing stinks.
if costco had a sign or not it does not matter. its private property and all costco can do legally is ask you to leave the property, or put your gun in your vehicle.
if you refuse to comply, they can have the local PD come over and ask you to leave property, and maybe have you trespassed if the property owner requests such.
this whole argument about a sign allowing guns in the store is useless in this matter...or wait, maybe it means that metro, instead of trying to assist the store they decided to piss some guy off and claim any movement is now deemed violent and shot the poor bastard because he had a gun or 2 on his person legally....instead of simply having a nice calming chat about it and blaming the store and let the man yell at costco corporate instead.
just a thought?
unless we get to see an unedited, unaltered video from inside costco, or someones private video, we will never know what happened because metro lies out of their rear ends to no end.
i wonder what happened to those off duty metro cops last year at the hilton that caused a ruckus with some hookers?
The sign said "No Guns" what do you think would happen if he went into a federal building or any other restricted building? Its a shame of the loss of life, but the police did their jobs im sure to the best of their ability. These guys and girls are humans, regardless of details of the incident the goal is for them to be safe and keep the community. I'm glad the cops are because I know I don't want their job. Ive been in this town for 20 years, I was in the military, I went to UNLV, I have a CCW, I like to have a few beers, a family, and have a great job. In all my time here I pride myself on something I call common sense (you can find it in the dictionary) and I along with my familt and friends have never had an issue or problem with the police. A little common sense goes a long way. Keep up the good work metro.
who in their right mind carries two guns? this is not a war zone. yes it is a given right which i support, but two sends a different message in my mind. would it be any different from a guy with a rifle in the store? not really once again common sense.
"It doesn't appear Scott was flashing his gun". Sorry, but it looks like it did appear he was flashing his gun - to the clerk and to the police - 3 of them apparently. Does anyone really think the 3 police decided to pull their guns for no reason. All three were mistaken about him reaching for the gun?
I feel bad for his family but still contend he created the situation. Carrying a gun should NEVER "becomes as natural wearing a shirt." You're carrying a loaded weapon. Remember it every time you put it on. And think about the consequences.
When our founding fathers drafted the Constitution the 2nd Amendment was never intended to be used for carrying guns to Costco in case a criminal was waiting in the parking lot.
The 2nd Amendment was drafted fully recognizing the real threat of abuse from an authority like METRO.
Yes we must have the right to own and carry guns.
cambridge, it is not a violation of life or death to bring a gun into a federal building...sure, you bring a gun into the fed building you are gonna be eating tile, but thats reasonable compared to shooting someone for it unless that guy was waving that said gun around in the govt building.
this is a costco saying no guns...thats just a simply private property request. if the guy is not being a threat with his guns and someone happens to see it, the store has to ask you to remove yourself or your firearm and if you do not comply then you can call the police to assist in the removal of that person.
this state has open carry laws...you mean to tell me that if you are open carrying you are subject to being shot by one of our untrained zitfaced undereducated so called wannabe cops?
"Its a shame of the loss of life, but the police did their jobs im sure to the best of their ability."
Unfortunately, when the phrase "best of their ability" translates to officers shouting commands that are contradictory and a failure to follow proper law enforcement procedures for disarming a legally armed civilian, "best of their ability" may also equate to "manslaughter".
There is a reason why Oscar Goodman's son is representing Scott's family; he knows he is going to win.
cambridge again, carrying 2 guns or 51 rounds of ammo...no difference and no reason why its not ok to do so. this is vegas, and anything can happen.
maybe a difference between a second gun compared to extra ammo would be this...where the guns were placed on this body, angles, direction, etc...all placed on his person from tactical standpoint for the most reliable and fastest draw just in case.
peaches, i dont know how you can say metro is an authority! lol
seasing, we dont totally know what happened yet and cannot say this guy totally created the problem for sure.
remember folks, there are 3 sides to this story.
the dead guys, (spoken thru his family/wife whatever)
the cops
and of course, especially in this town with this police department, there is also the unknown truth.
lets see if metro can make cameras lie. i hope they cant, and cameras make liars out of metro...ill be glad to serve on that jury
summerlinCC, one word...
TASER!!!!
cops are humans, who do you hold accountable for bad kids - teachers, drunks on the road - bartenders, taxes - the govt, another word to look into is accountability, there seems to be non on behalf of this subject. If the road sign says one way and you drive down it and the cops find you it may result in a ticket. It may also result in death by crashing. If the sign says dogs bite and you reach in you may get bitten. Its just a sign but if it had been followed in case it would not have happend.
For everyone telling people not to comment until all the facts are out, what do you think the comment section is for? It's for discussion and you can't control it by telling others not to comment. I have my opinion, you have yours. Even it they find out the cops had a conspiracy against Costo or Mr. Scott or that they all agreed going that they wanted to shoot someone that day, I'm still going to think (and I'm allowed to) that any one who carries a loaded gun into a crowded store is an idiot. My opinion. I'm not advocating laws that you can't to it and I'm all for the second amendment but I still think you are dumb to do it. I think people who don't wear seat belts are idiots too but don't support the law that says they have to wear them.
My first reaction is that most of us don't know what really happened, so it's dangerous and naive to speculate about who is in the right/wrong here.
That said, it appears this gentleman did something more than just open carry to cause Costco to (1) call the police and (2) evacuate the store.
Also, if you're carrying a weapon and are approached by law enforcement officials who demand that you drop the gun or get on the ground, you aren't permitted to ignore their demands just because you have a carry permit. If they tell you to get down, you get down (or suffer the consequences).
Finally, if a police officer pulls his gun and determines that firing it is warranted, it's unreasonable to think that the office should shoot at a subject's knees, hands, or other non-lethal areas. If they pull the trigger, they're trained and wise to shoot to drop the subject, to avoid missing, and to avoid collateral damage to possible subjects down-range. Hitting a subject in the chest achieves all of these things and is likely the reason why the man was shot in the chest. (Asking an office to shoot the gun out of his hands or to shoot his big toe is ridiculous, dangerous, and something out of Hollywood - not reality.)
This is not a 2nd amendment issue; it's an issue of a citizen carrying a weapon who (1) caused enough of a commotion to have the police department notified and (2) failed to comply with police demands. Unfortunately for him, this is a likely outcome in that situation.
The person responsible for this goat boink is the fool that called the police. The dead man was not a threat to anybody. He had a gun. So what? I carry a gun also. I am not a threat either. The threat to society is the brainless fool or fools that call the police at the first sign of a gun. Not to mention that fact that Metro has one solution to every situation. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Sign or no sign the victims family wins an award. Guess who pays for that? You are sitting in his chair right now.
go the wrong way down the street you dont know what you may run into.
bring a gun into a store that you are legally allowed to carry and you get gunned down by the officers that make up our joke of a police department is not the same concept.
i think metro cops dont get to the range much and use the locals as targets...moving targets
"I carry a gun also. I am not a threat either."
Really? You think so? How do we know?
You are far more of a threat than an unarmed person. You can shoot me. Someone with no gun can't.
Put it to you this way: How many people have been shot by unarmed people? How many unarmed people have been shot by cops?
If I'm in a store and I see a person acting weird and notice he has a gun, I'm going to leave the store as quickly as possible and then I'm calling the police to say there is a guy acting crazy in the store with a gun. You may not agree and you may not like it but that's exactly what I will do. If you carry a gun you need to take into account that I and many others will do that. If it causes you a problem I don't even care.
JohnF, " How many unarmed people have been shot by cops?"
in vegas, that may have an answer above 0
Really a no brainer. If you're approached by the police and they notice you with a gun, even if you're licensed to carry it. Do what they tell you to do. You might not like the Police, but they still are in charge and if you want to keep you're life you do what ever the hell they say.
It's apparent that this guy probably had a death wish though or was just plain off in the head.
and to the geniuses that think someone with no gun is not a threat...
anything can be used as a weapon. even a PEN.
if someone is a mad man and going whacko, etc....they will use any means possible. in costco, there are weapons in almost every aisle.
if i was a nutcase looking to start stuff, i COULD POSSIBLY do the following (no gun)
1. throw flat screen TV's
2. break display cases, use glass
3. throw wine bottles
4. break wood over people
5. shopping carts
6. tools...
thats just off the top of my head as i havent been to costco much, but i do know they have a lot of those items laying around for me to use.
im sure there are more but you get the idea that there are many things that can be used as dangerous projectiles.
VegasGirl, there is no reason for the cops to shoot you for not obeying orders. Gun or not. until that person reaches and has at least one finger on that gun, that person is not a threat for being shot at. before that person has a chance to lift their shirt, reach around for their gun to unholster it....the cops could have deployed the taser.
instead, these cops went up to this guy, none were tactically prepared to take this guy down in a more humane manner. one should have had gun drawn, another at the ready, and another 1 or 2 that were ready to deploy taser.
until we get to see unedited video from costco, we dont truly know what happened, but if this guy did not grab his gun and point it at officers, i hope the family sues metro for every gun, salary, patrol car, dog, taser, building, uniform they got.
That's the answer. Sue. Of course. It's the American way. And who do you think pays the bill? Taxpayers, of course.
sigtwenty,
Certainly the cops have shot unarmed people, but I guarantee you they've shot many more who were armed.
The list of things you cite that could be used as weapons at Costco is impressive. The only difference is it's highly unlikely that you walked into Costco intending to use that TV to bludgeon someone. You could also use that television to ...... I don't know ....... watch a TV program!
What possible reason could you have had for bringing a gun into Costco? Can you name a use for a gun that does not include shooting it?
I'll say it again: If you walk around with a gun it is highly likely that either you're going to use it to shoot someone or someone is going to use his gun to shoot you. That's what guns are for.
basically, like i have said in the past, metro cops training sucks. they cant handle a calm person at a car accident or a traffic ticket without looking for confrontation let alone a legally armed citizen (ex military or not, it dont matter as they wouldnt know until they saw id)
metro does the following.
1. shoot first, clean it up, go back to work.
2. for smaller stuff like traffic violations, they scream, yell, taunt, etc hoping you get mad at them and then they hope to kick your ass and take you to jail, or even better shoot, clean it up, an go back to work.
bottom line, a majority of the metro cops seem to wanna use the general public as target practice or a treat us like we killed their dog or stole their spouse. im not impressed with them as a LE agency.
Newcomer, you say: "This is not a 2nd amendment issue; it's an issue of a citizen carrying a weapon who (1) caused enough of a commotion to have the police department notified and (2) failed to comply with police demands."
The problem is that a.) Scott didn't cause the commotion and b.) it appears Scott was FOLLOWING police orders when he was killed.
a.) Not a single eyewitness of several interviewed by the Las Vegas Review Journal claims to have seen Scott destroying things inside the store. In fact, some witnesses saw him walking out of the store with everyone else. The police spokesman said that Scott was "going beserk". But strangely, those shoppers interviewed that saw Scott inside the store don't corroborate that assertion.
b.) If you read the eyewitness accounts, it appears that at least one cop may have told Scott to disarm himself while other cops shot at him while he was trying to disarm himself, mistakenly thinking he was reaching for his weapon to shoot at them.
JohnF, i carry my gun everywhere i go (legally), and i have no intention on shooting it on a daily basis.
and lets say this guy was waving his guns around in costco while holding his wife hostage and as a human shield and using that cellphone booth as cover...and i was in there with a gun and was in a position right behind him to take him out as he was a threat pointing his gun at YOUR mother who happened to be the one walking by that booth on her way to getting her costco dog and diet coke you would be glad i pulled out my gun and blasted that sack of crap before he blasted your mother...in costco.
so yes, there is a point to carry ANYWHERE (legally). anything can happen anywhere at any time. you must be prepared to use it, but always be responsible and look for a way out if time premits. the average person does not constantly look over their shoulder and does not care who or what is around them. others do, and others prepare and think about all details.
you may think bringing a gun into a costco is stupid, but you may be saving lives one day too.
chances are, in vegas, you have a better chance of getting shot by metro than a thug on nellis blvd
RE "it appears that at least one cop may have told Scott to disarm himself while other cops shot at him while he was trying to disarm himself, mistakenly thinking he was reaching for his weapon to shoot at them."
proof that poor training, poor communication, and the hiring of any barely legal immature zitfarmed twirp off of the street creates these problems.
After reading the accounts by witnesses I think he was shocked when he came out and found out it was him they were after I don't believe he was causing any trouble in the store I believe if that was said it was to cover the fact that security at that store was scared to approach.It sounds like he was extremely careless about his gun being secured and noone seeing it.Because he didn't see himself as a threat,when he walked out he was probably trying to comply and the police were giving different commands he was unsure of them.I don't think this guy should have been shot 5 times.It's like one cop decides to shoot so they all follow suit so the story comes up noone was sure he was dead,then not to even attempt to help the victim cold and calious.
mk1234, more cops shoot because its a cancer, once one cop somewhere does it becomes a badge of honor and more of them want to be able to say they shot some scumbag at some point in their career.
sigtwenty, I think you hit the nail on the head with the poor training and communication.
Metro PD makes money from selling concealed weapons permits ($100 per new permit, $80 every year after--money orders or cashier's checks only, please). They should be investing some of those fees in to better training.
hell, tampa florida has just as many bad criminals too, but you dont see county sheriff or local pd shooting everyone.
in florida, if they shoot someone, they damn well deserved it or it was warranted. how many people did metro shoot at running away or in the back?
I hope the family does pursue a lawsuit because if it takes money to wake up the Sheriff and the taxpayers to say this is unacceptable these officers should be relieved of their duty then so be it.Whoever does the hiring process needs to sure they are hiring professonal people not just your average I wanted to be cop all my life type person.A officer has to be so many things on their job,but judgement call is very important and I'm serously worried about who made this kind of call to shoot 5 times,after 2 shots he was subdued.
I'm not posting this to say I'm against Metro because I've contibuted and supported them.I'm saying something went wrong and why.
Metro Police are trained and understand that one of there own will cover for them, it is very clear who will be home at the end of the day.
sig,
Thanks for looking out for my mother.
You're just making my point. I don't dispute your right to carry a gun. The second amendment is pretty explicit about that. What I'm saying is that people who carry guns are far more likely to use them than people who don't. People who carry guns are far more likely to get shot at than people who don't. Shooting and getting shot at are two very foreseeable consequences of carrying a gun even if you're not threatening anyone with your gun.
From what I've been able to ascertain, this was not a good shoot on the part of the cops. But that's beside the point I'm trying to make.
People say they carry guns for protection, but people who carry guns are far more likely to be involved in shootings than people who don't. It stands to reason. Carrying a gun to avoid gunplay is like carrying a condom to avoid sex.
There is no statute of limitations for murder. LEO's are not above the law, and it is high time that we weed out the bad ones . . . if in fact . . . there are any. Let's put this entire issue to bed, and have a special independent grand jury formed to investigate the 150 or more police killings over the past 20 years and determine if any evidence exists that would suggest that any of these killings should be prosecuted as murder, in a court of law. Let's not just put the LEO shooter on the hot seat, let's look carefully at the training and those who have authorized the tactics that the police use today. Let's also look for evidence of cover-ups, where other police officers may of suppressed evidence, or perhaps where officers have committed perjury. Let's look for evidence of a growing culture of police that cannot control their urge to follow through with their training, where they kill people as if it were the ultimate blood sport. Let's make it perfectly clear to the citizen, the public employee and the LEO, that no one is above the law. At this point, I do fear the LEO more than any gang banger thug that I have ever heard about. I say, enough!
2 shots or 22 shots it does not matter. however many shots it takes for someone to stop is what counts.
if someone is cracked out and on pcp 2 bullets are not likely going to stop that person (assuming a general center of mass type shot with a 9mm or .40 bullet). sadly, it is hard for anyone, training or not, to not shoot rapidly. while an officer is presumed to be trained better one under stress cannot ultimately determine how many shots they will make, if only 5 or 6 shots hit this guy from 3 cops, thats about 2 per cop and thats not too bad. 3 cops shooting sounds excessive but again, all 3 may have "seen" the same thing at the same time.
it really comes down to training and personell. 21 year old immature zitfarms are not ready to be cops. min age should be 25, 21 if prior military and if they have been a part of the department even prior to 21 then 21 is ok (explorers program, etc.). otherwise general off the street people should be 25+. traning is obviously lame in metro, and i think in this instance the taser would have possibly been a better choice. TACTICS, EXPERIENCE, PROPER TRANING AND COMMON SENSE, keep cops alive day after day...not shooting people just because they have a gun.
"Harley. After speaking with her again. Police from all different angles were shouting different commands such as "put your hands up," g"get on the ground," "put your weapon down"
The man did put his hands up, the man then went to put his weapon on the ground but since it was still in the holster he had to reach to obey the commands of the officers. He was shoot and killed in cold blood before he could even reach it." --j1979
Thanks (again) for the update -- indeed tragic, disturbing and illegal (manslaughter) -- condolences to those who knew the victim, which by eyewitness accounts was killed, while attempting to comply with law enforcement directives without committing a crime and/or endangering others.
Will law enforcement ever admit to committing errors in judgment resulting in homicide?
Will society ever hold law enforcement accountable for their lethal errors?
Will society penalize their hired-gun's homicidal errors or continue to be penalized by them?
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In many states Law Enforcement officers are prosecuted for such conduct. The law must apply to all equally or else its an admission by the State we live in a police state not by the consent of the governed. If you or I shot someone in the same manner we would go to prison. The law must apply to all the same in order for a society to be considered free.
john, owning a car makes me more prone to actually driving it, and insuring and registering it makes me even more prone to driving it daily.
it also leaves me prone to accidents. but being a responsible driver by not speeding at excessive speeds, looking out for pedestrians, kids, not texting or facebooking while driving puts me in a better and safer position to not get into an accident. my experiences behind the wheel for 14 years now also help me avoid accidents....by recognising patterns of others, etc.
COMMON SENSE, TRANING, EXPERIENCE AND USE OF TACTICS KEEP ME OUT OF CAR ACCIDENTS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!
have i been in car accidents, sure. i have been rear ended 3 times and tboned once. 2 rear endings were at a stoplight. the other rear ending would have been worse if i didnt move because instead of texting i was paying attention to not only the front of me but the sides, sidewalk, and rear. i was able to move onto the sidewalk where no peds were and only take a small whack in the rear end compared to being a direct hit at 45mph.
these cops cant even drive properly, let alone handle a gun and know when to shoot it.
proper training for anyone with firearms allows for proper use of them. the average joe does not have experience or extensive training to use their gun other than target practice. they do not have the experience of using it on another human life and probably never will. but there are classes that teach this stuff so you can be better educated, and get practice on what to do just in case.
this guy was prior military, which is making me wonder what really happened. he is to be assumed he has proper training and experience with his firearms.
but because i carry concealed, does that make me more prone to being shot at? if my gun is small and hidden so no one can tell i have one, and im not showing it does that make me more of an open target than some old lady that may not be carrying?
a persons actions, movements, awareness makes them victims in most cases. criminals profile and watch. if they see someone constantly looking around they will probably avoid that person, but the person putting 500 bucks on the counter at target to buy 25$ worth of cleaning supplies not paying attention to anything is more likely to get mugged in the parkinglot when she leaves.
Harley, in hillsborough county florida, a few corrections deputies were nailed to the wall for a few random beatings of inmates that were heavily restrained.
tampa PD just lost 2 great cops recently, and both subjects are in custody unharmed. while those cop killers should get the chair they were not subject to immediate execution, while deserving it, law still has to be followed. has florida killed cop killers, yes. but they do follow the law when doing it.
i know a cop that was a prick at a traffic stop and got canned for it because the guy knew the sheriff and he got reported. cops here are just plain out of control in many ways.
if they can do it, why cant metro start making examples of the bad ones??
heck, north las vegas is arresting their own!!! that just shows metro does NOTHING to let these cops have any accountability for their actions
sounds like a cover up to me.
Another Metro Mess.
2 guns into Costco; NutJob time.
CONCEAL & carry. not OPEN carry, if you MUST carry.
999 times out of 1000, that pistol your packin' will do you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on the good side of the ledger. I know you C&C guys don't like to hear it, but statistics & facts bear it out; you are more likely to CAUSE problems carrying than to SOLVE problems. Usually, in this city, that means someone's kid dies way too young.
Metro, Metro.
"the police did their jobs im sure to the best of their ability."
PRECICELY what we're afraid of.
I support Metro. I support ALL Law Enforcement Agencies.
Some of the best folks I know are LEO's.
I DO NOT SUPPORT ineptitude, bad judgement, or lack of training.
As citizens, we MUST ASK QUESTIONS about Metro's manner & methods and operating procedures...
Where there's smoke, there's fire. And Metro has provided tons of both.
sigtwenty you make lots of assumptions about the training and skill of the police but then just state "this guy was prior military, which is making me wonder what really happened. he is to be assumed he has proper training and experience with his firearms." We know nothing about this guy other than he carried at least one gun in to a crowded store. You don't know his motives and you don't know if he was trained. Or if he practiced what he learned. But he sure as heck didn't hit the ground the minute he knew police had guns on him. If he'd had proper training perhaps he would have.
I'm betting these families wish Metro would have been there. http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/12/new....
What hasn't been indicated is whether the gunmen were under the influence of mind-altering drugs/medications -- if a motorist was involved in an accident which resulted in death, the motorist would automatically be bio-tested -- where the gunmen involved in this homicide bio-tested?
If so, (the standard afforded to civilans involved in vehicular-homicide) what were the results; if not, why?
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seasing, first we know that Scott has proper training for a couple of reasons:
1. Every soldier must undergo weapons safety training and qualify with their weapon at least once a year. As an Army officer, Scott would not only have to qualify with a 9mm Beretta pistol, he would be in charge of supervising firearms training for others.
2. Everyone with a concealed weapons permit must not only pay Metro PD, but they must also undergo weapons training prior to receiving a permit. Here's the link to Metro PD's website describing the requirements:
http://www.lvmpd.com/permits/firearms_co...
As part of any weapons training course offered by law enforcement, trainees are always taught to obey the orders given by law enforcement until things can be sorted out. Based on eyewitness accounts, it appears that Scott was shot while trying to obey an order to disarm given by an officer.
"but because i carry concealed, does that make me more prone to being shot at? if my gun is small and hidden so no one can tell i have one, and im not showing it does that make me more of an open target than some old lady that may not be carrying?"
Yes, it does for the very simple reason that you're more likely to pull that gun out than someone who doesn't have one, and history shows that being threatened with violence is not the only reason why people with guns use them. It isn't even one of the leading reasons why.
Nobody will dispute this guy's right to walk around with a weapon just as nobody should dispute the fact that had he not been carrying a gun he would be alive today. Carry a gun around and this is one of the things that may happen to you. It's tragic and it may not have been his fault, but that's one of the consequences of walking around with a gun in public.
@JohnF
My firearm has saved my life as well as others numerous times without being fired -- society should appreciate the presents of its firearm-ready social "Scotts" not burden them with card-carrying annual fees and/or attempt to fabricate excuses they shouldn't exist.
Did you know employer's routinely use facebook data as well as financial information such as credit scores to profile and screen potential employees?
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Did you know employer's routinely use facebook data as well as financial information such as credit scores to profile and screen potential employees?
yea what a shame. a persons credit score does not indicate their work ethic
And yes, I have been confronted by local law enforcement officers while holding a loaded S&W in hand -- without incident.
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lemahj
Seriously you make a very good point. My guess is at the rate of shootings its only a matter of time before the FBI comes in and OPENS ALL cases. The shear number you can bet some cops active or retired will be prosecuted
Its a shame all of that are so passionate about how bad the cops are dont become police, what a difference you all would make! Maybe even put some time into community projects to reduce crime, after all the stats can't be that far off. Its nice to see people who bash others putting in an effort to change rather then just complain.
why would i want to be a part of such a corrupt and unprofessional and disgraceful organization such as metro? would you want that kind of job on your resume?
sigtwenty says...
"in florida, if they shoot someone, they damn well deserved it or it was warranted."
sigtwenty, that's the case here too in Nevada. If the cops shoot someone, they damn well deserved it or it was warranted.
Harley says...
"Did you know employers routinely use facebook data as well as financial information such as credit scores to profile and screen potential employees?"
Although that's irrelevant to the subject matter, and although you've posted that many times, it's legal and proper. I'm a manager, and I do it myself. You must have bad credit.
M1, bad credit does not mean bad employees. You must be a bad manager.
and in nevada, thats what the LAW says, it does not mean that metro follows it or think they are not above it.
Let us take a moment and reflect.
Just a few weeks ago the gang was briefing for a warrant. Must have gone like this; while this black guy has never been arrested or in trouble and graduated from a local high school and is attending UNLV, we have purchased small amounts of marijuana from him and thus the warrant.
Now we believe he has a woman with him, his girlfriend that is 8 months pregnant, but we have no reason to believe he is armed or that he has any weapons.
So, here is the plan. We will all wear body armor and take high caliber combat rifles to kick down the door. Just in case we will wear masks becuase that is really cool.
Yant you take lead, you have the intensity to take charge of these kind of situations.
If this guy is found in a very small room, say the bathroom, then do not for any reason take any chance he might have a sh1t, shoot him in the face with the AK15.
Or this one, maybe my favorite. In the event you are called to a confrontation between a teenager and his mother, and said teenager is holding a butter knife to her, shoot him in the face because his mothers screams to not shoot are only her desire to have you test your ability to hit him instead of her.
I predict the first will be "removed" so I give you the water downed version in the second posting.
cowards ez to bash people but harder to be a productive member of the community to change what you dont like. If thats the case you get what you get. take a look at the jails maybe we should open them up. metro does a great job as well as henderson. im proud that men and women want to do the job. there will always be the cowards that complain and yet do nothing. where i come from they are called sheep. someone is calling the police they just dont show up. i would bet my paycheck that 99% of the bashes are cunproductive people in the city with loser kids that follow in mommy and daddy footsteps. For the rest of show some thanks because they are providing everyone else with job security!
Cambidge, how many CCSD Board meetings have you been to? Me, many!
nvlawyer you are 100% wrong..Costco is private property so they can refuse the right of service to anyone for any reason.
Seems like we all believe whatever version of the story supports our preconceived beliefs on gun rights, impressions of Metro, etc...
Seems like relatively few people want facts, they just want fuel for their own fire.
Makes me wonder why the Sun even allows these silly comment boards to persist.
peaches if I had an issue with ccsd i would go to the meetings, since i dont i dont attend. not it matters but since i was not happy with the schools i pay for my kids to go to private school. I dont complain i either try to fix it or do something about it. If i was so unahppy with the city i'd either do something about it or i would move. I just hate people who complain, either do something about it or move. people love to complain yet are not willing to take action. i find comfort in knowing that all of the cases that all the cop haters complain about resulted in zero poeple getting hurt other then the suspects. great job metro.
cambbridge am am all about action!
What is everyone getting worked up about? This guy deserved to get shot. Are the cops required to wait until the obviously out of control armed guy is already shooting before they fire?
stupid is.....
I am going to
it is all about action!
private schools, you are the....reason.
The question is did my children go to Faith or Bishop it did not stop me from going to CCSD board meeting:s you moron!
You are the problem!
Peacheeze your a mess, lol. Listen thats great thatyou go to ccsd meetings Im sure they love you and thanks for the difference you make. It seems like you have a lot of issues with ccsd, metro, henderson, any others. There comes a time when you need to look at yourself and wonder...hmmm...where did i go wrong. Enjoy and feel free to let me know where to send the check, Im all for charity and your in need!
if you do not know where to send the check then, you are the problem!
The irony, the man...a successful educated man is well dead.
cambrigde, are your kids going to west point? You know a Senator? only two from Nevada~!
Comment removed by moderator. Post in all caps.
OPPS I MEANT CLERK
Have the FBI do the investigation. It would answer alot of questions.
From I guess this constitutes going "bezerk" to Metro PD-
'In a news release issued Monday, police said Scott, 39, was "acting erratically" and "damaging merchandise" while inside the store in Summerlin. He also was seen with a pistol on him, police said. Police were called to the store about the incident, which ended with Scott's death. Shots were fired by three officers, including one who was involved in a fatal shooting in 2006.
But a witness the Review-Journal interviewed Monday, a 72-year-old man who spoke on the condition that his name not be used, said Scott did not appear to be doing anything nefarious.
Scott was crouched down with a backpack in front of him in a sporting goods aisle, the witness said. Scott had taken a large package of sport drink bottles off the shelf and placed it on the floor in front of him. He had torn open the package to get at the contents and was placing the bottles in and out of the backpack.
"It was like he was trying it out," the man said. "I think possibly he was trying to see if it would fit in his backpack."'
Cops should have tazered him, not shot him. WTF?
This is the third time posting this so if it gets removed by staff again, no big surprise.
My unnamed friend works at that Costco and was on duty the day of the shooting; police "encouraged" them not to speak to the media or anyone else about the events that unfolded. Those surveillance tapes were confiscated by Metro for a selfish reason. When the tapes are made public and if they remain unaltered, the VICTIM'S family will sue and win millions from Clark County.
There was a 72 year old witness who accurately described what the "Destruction to merchandise" was but I have since noticed that account removed from that article.
if metro finds this to be a clean shoot or claims it to be clean, and there is overwhelming evidence and testimonies that say otherwise, im gonna call the feds myself on them about this crap. and ill be glad to contact the family of the victim and rally support for their cause and case against metro..
personally, i dont hate in any way law enforcement, i do not disrespect their job, i simply just hate metro pd and have no respect for our worthless police department. id be more than happy to help the victims if the victims are found to be victims of poor policework.
With multiple witnesses claiming that the man (victim) was neither violent nor pulling a gun out, its starting to look like both Costco and the police mishandled the incident. We're probably looking at some major lawsuits for both parties.
If everyone was allowed to exercise their second amendment rights and bear arms without any infringement or permit requirements it would be no big deal as everyone would be use to everyone else having one and would know what normal and abnormal reactions or movements would be. Also, people who have them, but don't say anything to police now because the would get in trouble, would say they have them because it would be no big deal. The criminals also wouldn't feel so powerful if they knew everyone else around had one.
Again, why aren't these tapes being "released" yet? I know what happened, but for the rest of you idiots that think this shooting was "justified" I want these tapes released so you will see the truth the way the rest of us see it.
j1979, yesterday it was reported that Costco experienced a "glitch" in downloading the video tape and it was taking extra time, so Metro PD claims that they have been unable to get a copy or view the videotape. Costco has not independently confirmed this.
And for today's circus act, ringmaster Gillespie will demonstrate "the application of lethal force using the pointed gun ruse."
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@SummerlinCC
Where did you hear that?
@ThisOneGuy: Tim Richardson at the Las Vegas Sun. The Sun (apparently along with every other media outlet in town) tried to find out why the video tapes haven't been produced, so they called Metro PD.
Barbara Morgan at Metro PD claims Metro contacted Costco, but Costco was "having trouble" pulling them up from their off-site location due to a "glitch".
No word on whether Metro PD merely asked Costco for the tapes or whether they attempted to compel production of the tape through a court order.
The Sun then tried to contact Costco directly, but Costco never responded. When a publicly traded company with a fully staffed PR department doesn't respond to media inquiries.
Metro PD has further indicated that even if they do receive the tapes, they won't release any tapes to the public until the coroner's inquest. No date for the inquest has been scheduled.
That's one of the reasons I was so upset about Cpt. Neville's statement published this morning. On the one hand, Metro PD says their not releasing any tapes until the inquest. On other hand, Cpt. Neville fed the press selected excerpts from the 911 tape to help justify the shooting.
pardon my spelling errors in the last post, I was typing quickly
AND FOR TODAY'S NEWS ARTICLE FROM THE REVIEW JOURNAL...Capt. Patrick Neville said an employee was talking to dispatchers and was close enough to the scene on Saturday that a recording of the conversation caught an officer clearly yelling, "Get on the ground."
Police have refused to release the recording. Investigators hope to review store surveillance video, but Neville said he didn't know whether any video of the shooting existed.
REALLY????
CONTINUE-During a heated discussion with Scott, a security worker confronting him over the opened boxes noticed Scott's gun in his waistband, Neville said.
Wow, I thought Neville said that Erik was waving his gun around the store destroying merchandise going "kinda beserk." So which one is it Neville? Was it in his waistband or in his hand like you said? Neville, you and your department who was involved in this make my stomach turn. You ruined the life of a young man, a hero to our country. This young man was someone's son, someone's brother or sister, someone's love. These people will suffer forever for your trigger happy ways.
You sicken me more and more with your lies to the public everyday. I would LOVE TO SITON THIS JURY. If i do, you will pay for the actions and pain you caused to the community and the Erik's family. You make it where people now need to be in fear of the police department. SHAME ON YOU!
Thank god for the consitution, look at all the freedoms we have, "The right to bear arms" and above all of them, the one being exercised right here in all these comments, "The freedom of speech", maybe a few people who have posted these ridiculous comments deserve to be shot...as one comment said "he deserved to be shot" what kind of human are you....good thing it wasnt your brother or family member. You would think different. IMO This situation was out of control from the get go, Costco should have been aware of what they were getting themselves, and all the shoppers into ,to report"that there was a crazed man destroying merchandise in Costco with a gun", they set the stage for the police. What I dont understand is how our TRAINED officers can walk up on a situation with a report that Costco gave and not want to verify the allegations of the call. Wouldnt you think if there was a crazed man running through Costco, there would not have been a calm exit of the crowd ,which this man was one of the crowd. If they were close enough to tap him on the shoulder, and they really felt that he was a threat, why tap him on the shoulder, why didnt they just taze him and drop him, then ask questions. Why is there three cops in crowd of people shouting out commands and then firing their guns. This whole situation was a reaction to an overaggerated report from Costco. It is sad for everyone involved. Especially for Eric Scott who did not deserve this. No one deserves to be shot in a situation like this. There was not to much thought given in this. If our police officers are being trained to kill then ask questions in a situation where there was no apparent threat on anyone......the problem is much bigger than the shooting at Costco. And if anyone would like to challenge the comment on the posted signs on Costco on Charleston and 215 get off the couch and take a drive , there is no signs anywhere on that buiding stating there are no weapons on the premises....Nice try .........Finally this is man who served our country, educated himself, and worked in the medical industry with a team of people saving lifes, giving people a chance for a better quality of life, do you really think after all the work he had to do to get where he was in life, he would go into a Costco and destroy merchandise and wave his gun around....Really....You dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out.....J1979 kudos to you for your comment, its nice to see some people are paying attention to the STORIES that the police department is TRYING to put out there to protect their own, and oddly in saying that, isnt it their job to PROTECT AND SERVE, where was the protection for Eric Scott? My prayers go out to the family and friends of Eric Scott.
Thank you 1humantoanother. Thank you for making complete sense!!!!I'm glad to see that their are other people out there that know what their talking about and that Metro is completely trying to cover this up. Also, look at the ages of these officers.I believe one was 38, 28, and 23. Aside from the 38 year old these guys didn't have much experience in the police force at all. With one of them having Erick bet he officer's second kill since 2006. WTH is wrong with this picture?
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Well you know one thing is for sure those tapes were gone the day of the shooting because Metro is not that stupid,they take all evidence first thing they don't wait for a call back from someone to say "hey you know we shot a guy at your place do you guys have tapes on it yet."That is a dumb,trust me I'm sure Costco will do whatever the cops say.I'm never shopping in there again overzealous staff that does not know how to handle people.I hope the security guard and the rest of the staff are proud.Lawsuit for COSTCO also....
Neville please explain how one of your officers can be close enough to tap a (supposed man on a rampage)on the shoulder with the officer standing right next to him telling him to get on the ground and then blowing the guy away.If I were the family I would contact the feds and Harry Reid and ask for a full fledged investgation,cover up is already taking place.This is election time Harry will help.
PEOPLE be careful shopping at COSTCO you may not come home tonight.....
God I hate this town. Not because of the police, which I think did an excellent job putting this man down, but because of the rest of you idiots that live here. Every time Metro PD drops somebody I feel a little bit safer. Shoot first and ask questions later works for me. I feel safe because I know they won't be shooting at me because I respect the police and I'm not an idiot who carries my firearms everywhere I go.
Canceled my Costco membership today. Friends and family are doing the same. Told Costco supervisor that I believed they were responsible for the murder of Erik Scott. I feel sorrow for Erik, his girlfriend, family, and friends. It appears that a good mans life was taken that Saturday morning.
The officers involved did their job, the suspect should have raised his hands above his head interlocked his fingers & complied with the officers commands & he would not have been shot.
Just because you posses a CCWP does not mean when confronted by POLICE you can do as you wish. I feel sorry for the suspect but he should have known what to do when confronted by Law Enforcement. I stand behind the officers 100%.
Leem glad to hear that I did to.I would never shop in that store again,what a bunch of idiots.
jebrown if you were there which i don't think so then you would know this guy did'nt have time to do anything he walked out the door with the rest of the people and the security guard pointed him out guns were drawn and it was over in 60 seconds.what ever happened to defusing a situation.they yelled 4 different commands at the same time.he didn't even know it was him they wanted.
mk1234: you are right I was not there, but there is such a thing as common sense. Lets see how it plays out. I stand behind METRO 100%. I would have chosen to use a taser myself but I wasn't the one faced with that choice.
P.S.
Ive been in this kind of situation before , you only have a few seconds to make that call & its not easy. I worked 20 yrs. in the Security field in CA.
Rookie cops screwed up. The cops shouted three contradictory commands because no one remembered their training on how to disarm a suspect.
jebrown, try this exercise: have three guys with loaded guns face you. One guy says "Stop". The second guy says "Drop It." The third guy says "Get Down". You get killed if you don't follow all three commands at the same time. That's what happened to Scott. As it turns out, he had more weapons experience than all three cops combined. Oh and eyewitnesses say the gun was still in his waistband when Scott fell to the ground.
Metro botched it.
Not that Metro has the Costco tape in hand, they're claiming to have "technical" difficulties trying to view the videotape according to Channel 8.
It's a matter of time before the adults (ie: the feds) will be paying Metro a visit.
summerlinCC : let the FBI sort it out, I agree. but I still stand behind our POLICE.
20 yrs in state prison should be enough time to think about cold blooded murder. Always a few bad apples on city or county. wonder if these thugs would have the guts in one on one fast draw. no heros in this scene, just one dead law abiding citizen, reminds me of the barn at lexinton that started our indenpendence.
Gillespie has to go. He is responsible for this culture of arrogance and complete disregard for sanity. An officer drives 109 mph without his lights flashing kills himself and thank God no one else. What does Gillespie do? Blames an innocent man turning him into a pariah causing him to lose his long time job. Then he throws a massive funeral for the reckless driver fit for a President. Sickening.
Jetbrown, Did you not read the eye witnesses reports stating that they saw Erick Scott with his hands up in the air when they told him to? Eye witnesses state they also heard officers screaming to "drop it" Since his gun was never out of it's holster how was he suppose to "drop it" with out moving his arms? I guess the tapes will tell all if we ever see them however there is no audio on those tapes I'm sure so of course the video will show Erick moving his hand to drop his weapon, They will have to rely on witness reports as to what was being yelled to Erick. What a mess this is!
Simple, put up your hands up and do as the police say! Is that so crazy? If he was a responsible gun owner then this situation is not likely to happen. It's tragic, no one should die but he had choices. I hope the tape shows a clear story here. But common sense tells me dont go raisin hell in a public place with guns!
jbrown, I stand behind the police 99% of the time and always try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but this case smells. I've been watching this story closely and Metro PD has changed stories about this shooting in its' own public statements (pretty blatant). And eyewitness testimony contradicts many of Metro's statements not only outside the store, but inside the store before the shooting began (ie during a period of low stress).
Now, Metro confirms that they have the videotape, but they can't view it because of a "technical" error.
Hopefully, the "technical" error gets fixed and we're able to see how the rookie cops handled this situation.
I've learned that what a person believes he see's & what actually occurred are usually 2 totally different things, ask 10 people a question & you'll usually get 10 different answers. Let's see what the tapes show. What happened to all the cellphone videos, everyone always has that phone taping everything, what not this time? All the suspect needed to do is hands on head & drop to his knees, end of story he would still be alive, the officers would have disarmed him & resolved the problem.
jebrown, you are absolutely correct! But the police didn't order Scott to put his hands up and drop to his knees!!! Read the eyewitnesses accounts. It appears that one officer told him to "Stop". Another officer told him to "Get Down". And yet another officer told him to "Drop It". Put yourself in his shoes and try performing all three commands at the same time.
The problem is that he was trying to comply with the police when he was shot!
Thank you summerlincc. Who knows how many times we need to keep explaining that.
They shot this man in cold blood and I hope the officers who did the shooting get prosecuted to the full extent of the law as they should!! The police cant cover this up because there where to many eye witnesses who observed the shooting.. I have yet to see any eye witness state he had a gun in his hand or was reaching for it. If the officers where close enough to tap him on the shoulder then my thought is they came looking for a fight and found one! Just because someone is carrying a weapon does not make him a criminal. there are several less leathal ways to handle a situation like this. To protect and serve must mean something different to LVPD!!! More like to assume and shoot. The police attempt to make it justified is nothing more then a smoke screen the average idiot can see through..If anyone believes this was a justified shooting then your a bigger idiot then the police. Bottom line, the police are not above the law even if they think they are! Murder is Murder.
j1979, the problem is that Metro PD initially released misinformation in an attempt to justify putting 7 rounds into Scott. For example, you still have people out there believing that Scott was "destroying" the store and going "bezerk", even though Metro has since changed its' own story.
On top of it, you have some of media that continues to regurgitate some of the misinformation. Heck, even the community affairs editor of the LRVJ, a self-identified relative of a Metro PD officer, wrote a column based on the first of Metro PD's versions repeating "facts" that are turning out to not be facts at all. And that's a newspaper editor whose job is to check for factual errors!
I agree an innocent man is murdered by police and the media and metro paint it as justified even before the have an inquiry. What a horrible mistake. Who would know how to comply with 4 or more different commands from multiple metro officers standing with guns pointed at you! He never had a chance to get out alive. Once metro was all over that scene like flies to crap Scott was unfortunately very SOL and DOA! I only hope his death is now not allowed to be in vain and this will bring about and investigation into the corruption and lack of appropriate training of our police department.
My condolences to Scott and his family. May Scott rest in peace and may his family see vindication for this senseless killing.
well said puppyluv!
summerlinCC, I know you and I have followed this story since day one. I have because Erik was my dear friends boyfriend. I haven't wanted to release her name out of respect for her. She is going through a very terrible time and trying to comfort someone who's beloved was just murdered before her eyes is very hard. She will not look at any of these blogs or posts as she has been through enough. The police keep stating they have 12 witnesses yet look at ALL these blogs on different sites that you and I are both on. There are people saying they were there and people who said they saw everything. If it is true that people see things from a different perspective during a high intensity event such as this, who is to say the police obviously witnesses too because the were there aren't seeing the events as they thought they were? I just wish the police would stop releasing statements that try to justify their murder before the investigation is complete.
the other witnesses also have a right to be heard and reported on. The saw things VERY differently than the police and the other 12 witnesses that stand behind them. Reports claim there were 30 -50 people out there. Funny how only twelve of them claim to have seen pull his weapon out. That means the rest must of been some mentally ill psycho's on meds for back pain as they claim Erik was. Funny thing, they were never in there getting a prescription filled. As a matter of fact, they signed up for a membership to Costco the very day he was killed. The whole thing makes my head spin in disbelief!
I'll post this again. Here is an e-mail address for those wishing to contact Pam Barron chief of staff to Asst. AG for Civil Rights Tom Perez at the US DOJ's Civil Right Division: pam.barron@usdoj.gov I don't know this blog's policy on posting e-mail addresses, but I would think that posting the official, non-personal address of a public servant would be OK(?).
j1979,
All I can say is hang in there. I think Metro PD understands that they got out over their skis on this case. From what I can tell, Metro PD is now taking the proper step of holding off all statements until the investigation is complete. In the last couple of stories, the police have refused to comment. Additionally, Sheriff Gillespie's statement seems to reflect that his department will now take this approach.
I understand that some of the partial information and flat out incorrect information that was released is causing Erik's family and those that knew him, a great deal of pain. Many people will never read beyond the headlines and for the next few weeks, you can expect much of the initial misinformation to be repeated simply because that is what exists in the public domain. In every article,the media will go back to those first Metro PD statements, because that it what they have on record. I do believe that if Metro could go back to last Saturday, they probably would have not released the statements that they did.
As for the witnesses, you're absolutely correct. It's one of the reasons why the videotape is just so important. Unfortunately, you'll have to get used to people asking questions about Erik's mental state that day even though those that knew him may have known it wasn't an issue.
Most of the people supporting Metro PD are standing behind them because they know Metro has a tough job to do. But many of those people don't exactly know the law and what Metro is SUPPOSED to do in a circumstance like this.
The one thing Erik's family has going for them is that this is becoming a high-profile case. There is a stronger chance that Metro PD, the DA, etc. will handle this investigation by the book if there is a heightened degree of visibility, pressure and scrutiny and that US DOJ is looking over their shoulder.
God bless.
I hope and pray that eveyone on here contacts the department of justice to look into this because if not this will be put to rest like all the other things that have gone wrong.Remeber the Manor incident the cops flat out lied,and then refused to take statements from witnesses and told them they would be jailed if they didn't leave the scene.This has gone on long enough.
By the way what is a Leo?never heard the term before.
LEO = Law Enforcement Officer
j1979 if you followed officer manor's case you'll see a pattern.The officers were only willing to take the statements where it did not make it look like it was Manor's fault instead of saying he messed up,they covered until the other witnesses went to the press and told their story so i suggest the same here.Freedom of the press if you have info and are a witness call the newspaper if you are not being heard.Make you voice count.
A quick correction:
Please do not use the e-mail for DOJ above.
Instead, please e-mail Asst. US AG Tom Perez at:
Tom.Perez@usdoj.gov
to request that US DOJ enter this investigation. Apparently, Pam Barron was only chief of staff on temporary basis, so her e-mail box may no longer be accepting e-mails. Thanks and sorry for the inconvenience!
As the dust settles over the initial shock of Eric's death now the anger is going to set in. I have the comments on Eric here and with the review journal, and much to my suprise the tides are changing. All the sudden it appears it has become a possibility that there is more to this story then what the media has put out. There is two sides to every story, the police has managed to get theirs out, now its Eric's turn. I think this community needs to wake up and realize that it is not impossible for the police to have made a mistake, now lets see if they own up to it.By justifing the shooting for the police, will only send out the worst message ever to the community. NOT A GOOD IDEA, people are upset by this. It has escalated to the point that its not even about Eric anymore.....there is a reason for everything in this world, and I believe that Eric early departure may have been part of a bigger plan......The corruption needs to stop for all our sakes......This could have been any of us or our family memebers.
SHERIFF GILLISPIE YOUR PD IS A PR NIGHTMARE,THIS IS WHERE YOUR TROUBLE STARTS.YOU SHOULD HAVE A PR PERSON TO DO THIS OR ONLY SIMPLE FACT STATEMENTS TO THE PRESS AFTER A SHOOTING TAKES PLACE. YOU GUYS LOOK STUPID WHEN THIS HAPPENS.WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT.
Tuesday afternoon, I went to my rental property to collect my rent from O, a BLK male (I just found out he is rapist and still in a crime suit charged as Battery) who owes me rent and utilities for 2 months.
O ran out and called police on me, lied about that I illegally locked him out and my appliances and furniture was his.
Without any doubt, the two police offers instruct him to get into my property to take my stuff.
To protect my property, I told those police that without searching order they couldn't get into my house then I went to another door in my garage to get O's cloth, shoes"out, I heard the police told him that he could break into my house to get HIS STUFF, such as TV, DVD"then I heard a gigantic bang in my kitchen"I ran to my kitchen, I found that O throw a huge gardening rock into my kitchen which broken my window"I got totally pissed, the only thought on my mind was just let him took whatever he want and leave me alone, so I tried to throw out the TV which was in the living room right next to the kitchen. Unfortunately it was too heavy, then I grab the DVD and throw it out from the broke window"then I heard the two police were trying to break though my entrance doors"I ran to hide in one of the rooms' closet"I heard them kicked in"then two guns against my head"then I was arrested and put in jail without two crime charges"I finally bailed myself out on Friday"after I back from the indicial court and went back to that property, O still here, remember he said he got knocked out by me and moved his belonging in front of those police?!And better believe it, he is still live in my property! While I faces two crime charges, and might be deported for those charges.
I don't believe that police can break into my property without any court order and while I got arrested, I got malicious injuries"
I left my country, came to this country to pursuit FREEDOM and HAPPYNESS, and contribute 10 years of my best time to her, live here alone with the hope I can get my parents here to cure my loneness after I get my citizenship; I don't believe I should be treat like this, my citizenship examination is close, I'm in need of legal help"here is my email: fordailyuse@ymail.com