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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Steve Sisolak
Reader poll
Sun archives
- Fire union goal: Silence Sisolak (3-19-2010)
- Las Vegas firefighters burn up more sick time than other city employees (3-14-2010)
- Clark County firefighters profit from sick leave policy (3-7-2010)
- Commissioner offers pared Metro budget as example for others (2-25-2010)
- Horrible county budget outlook worsens, tough decisions loom (1-20-2010)
- Town hall on budget shows which side is which (1-14-2010)
- Clark County priorities panel meeting in Las Vegas (12-16-2009)
- ‘Longevity pay’ costs millions in county (12-10-2009)
- Firefighters feeling budget backlash (5-28-2009)
- County, fire union break ice with heated words (5-7-2009)
- Firefighters have perks to give back, if they wanted to (4-29-2009)
- Shortfall looms large as fire union holds out (4-23-2009)
- It pays EMTs to do I's and cross T's (4-22-2009)
- No concessions yet from firefighters (4-12-2009)
With boots in hand, Clark County firefighters will finish this week their annual ritual of soliciting donations for the Muscular Dystrophy Association at valley supermarkets and malls.
But one Clark County commissioner, who has become an outspoken critic of the department in recent months, is questioning the practice of allowing firefighters to do the charity work while on the clock.
Commissioner Steve Sisolak said he was stunned to learn recently that the donations are collected on the taxpayers’ dime. “I’ve talked to a lot of people, and everyone I know thinks they do this on their own free time, out of the spirit of giving and philanthropy,” Sisolak said.
County firefighters are on duty, typically with a firetruck parked nearby and ready to go, as they solicit donations.
The practice of allowing firefighters to participate in the “boot drive” on work time has been questioned off and on over the years. But Sisolak raises the issue at an uncomfortable time for the department. Firefighters have faced backlash over their pay and benefits, and their refusal last year to give what county officials deemed true wage concessions. The union is currently negotiating a new contract with the county.
Sisolak said firefighters’ participation raises questions about how they spend their time on duty. He noted that the Fire Department is preparing to ask for an increase in safety inspection fees charged to developers and trade shows. The department says current fees don’t cover inspection costs. Every firefighter can also do basic “familiarity inspections,” which Sisolak confirmed the department is behind on.
“And yet they are taking time to do the boot drive. How do they have this extra time?” Sisolak said. “And if this (the boot drive) is OK, what if police officers now want to say, ‘Hey, can we take a day while we’re on patrol to collect money?’ ”
Sisolak also wondered why Clark County singles out MDA over many other worthy causes.
“How did we pick this one and everyone else gets excluded?” he said. “I guess I just have a lot of questions.”
The answer stems more from tradition than any value judgment regarding MDA’s work to improve research and treatment of muscular dystrophy, ALS and related diseases. The MDA is also named the “charity of choice” by the International Association of Firefighters.
Scott Allison, county fire department spokesman and a member of MDA’s executive board, said the ties between Southern Nevada firefighters and the organization stretch back decades. Four local firefighters established the first boot drive in the country in 1961. (Ironically, two of them later died of neuromuscular disease.)
Indeed, Sisolak and the other six commissioners recently signed a proclamation supporting the Muscular Dystrophy Association and the boot drive. (Sisolak said he supports the effort, but he does not support it being done by on-duty firefighters.)
Commissioner Chris Giunchigliani defended the decades-long practice, saying firefighters’ participation isn’t a concern to her.
Chris Giunchigliani
“In 56 years no one has abused it, there has never been a problem. Why would we create a problem?” Giunchigliani said. “I think at some point we have to recognize the true spirit of what they are doing — it is a public service.”
Allison said about 460 valley families have children with neuromuscular diseases. Last year, six local teenagers died from muscular dystrophy.
Having worked with the association for more than 20 years, Allison called the boot drive a “labor of love” and something rookie firefighters look forward to. “They love being out there, and the people enjoy us being there.”
He added that all department firefighters take part during the three-day event.
Asked if the boot drive would get as much support if firefighters weren’t being paid, Allison said, “I do think our guys would go out. I think the dedication is there because they see where the money goes, they know a lot of the kids who are in wheelchairs.”
Firefighters from all of Southern Nevada’s fire departments participate in the boot drive, but policies differ on whether they do so while on duty.
Boulder City, Henderson and Las Vegas allow firefighters to collect donations during work hours, but a city of Las Vegas spokesman said off-duty firefighters also participate.
In North Las Vegas, the kinds of questions being asked by Sisolak prompted the department to change its policy this year. The city’s firefighters now only participate during off-duty hours, North Las Vegas Capt. Cedric Williams said.
“We just wanted to make sure the focus isn’t lost and put on whether the money was raised on-duty or off-duty,” Williams said. “We thought the cause was more than worth it, and we do it on our own time.”
Williams hasn’t noticed any decline in participation by firefighters under the new policy.
Firefighters have been an important part of MDA’s fundraising efforts. The Web site of International Association of Firefighters Local 1908, the Clark County firefighters union, says firefighters have raised more than $450 million for MDA over more than five decades.
In Southern Nevada, fire departments valleywide raised $204,389 in 2009; $186,421 in 2008 and $209,110 in 2007.
Despite the obvious benefit of the annual event, Sisolak isn’t the first to question the boot drive.
In 2000, then-Fire Chief Earl Greene questioned the fairness of using taxpayer-funded employees to support one charity over another. His argument was rebuffed by then-Commissioner Erin Kenny, who got fellow commissioners to support a resolution expressing their appreciation for the boot drive.
The issue arose again six years ago, when a Las Vegas Review-Journal columnist questioned the practice. After a review, then-County Manager Thom Reilly modified county policy, allowing firefighters to work the boot drive for only four hours while on duty. He also noted that county employees support other charities, including the United Way.
All valley fire departments will participate in the boot drive Friday and Saturday.
i never give them a dime. they make 3 times what i make.
i'm a "rich" conservative...where's my charity?
Firefighters are the biggest welfare addicts in the country. Bleeding the tax payer!!! so we can be "Safe!" Privatize the ambulance service, then fire all of the welfare fighters and hire young cheap ones!!!!!
Let the firefighters donate from their huge salaries, they are the one's living large while the rest of us eat cake! Fire them all and set up volunteer fire depts. like back east!
firemen destroy the community!!!
these blood suckers need to be put in their place...
fire them all...
start over from scratch...
on taxpayers terms...
these greedy little pigs must be brought down...
if reagan can fire the air traffic controllers...
we sure as hell can fire these leeches!!!
hey wanna be politicians...
want to win an election...
adopt the bring down the greedy pig firemen platform...
promise to fire them all...
and start over on taxpayers terms...
you win!!!
With all the bad press and deteriorating public opinion of firefighters in recent months (as witnessed on these pages), I'm astonished that they would accept taxpayer money for doing "charitable" work. I guess they really don't get it.
Asked if the boot drive would get as much support if firefighters weren't being paid, Allison said, "I do think our guys would go out. I think the dedication is there because they see where the money goes, they know a lot of the kids who are in wheelchairs."
THEN, JUST DO IT!
They may be on-duty while helping a charity but at least they're out helping the community on their down time as oppose to sitting around the Firehouse waiting for a call and "twiddling" their thumbs. They have a fire truck near by at the ready so it's not as if they would need to drive back to the station, get their equipment then leave again.
A call might come in that's near to the streets that they're on.
Sisolak should be strung up. He is trying to increase his political popularity by continuing to run with the "firefighters are bad" mantra. Now he has a problem with firefighters using their high-visibility to collect money for a disease stricken group? Seriously? And some of you agree with him? They are giving back to the community!!! They help people!! Its for charity!! What would you have them do while on-duty when there is no fire? Just sit there and clean the rig again? I'm a cop who requests the fire department several times a day and they are NEVER late and ALWAYS professional and the BEST at what they do. All of you should be shooting your arrows at Sisolak because when the "fit hits the shan" he won't be there to help you like FD will.
The problem some of us have is charitable work is defined as "Generous in giving money or other help to the needy.".
Profiting by putting money in your own pockets to help the needy is somewhat disingenuous and hardly "generous". Perhaps if they gave some or all of what they're being paid toward their cause they would appear in a better light.
The paper conveniently failed to mention how many Firefighters donate 1 week of thier personal time to assist kids at camp every year!
Of course it probably wasnt investigated, because that would be journalism and fair and balanced reporting!
In Southern Nevada, fire departments valleywide raised in 2009; $186,421 in 2008 and $209,110 in 2007.
Joe, what's the number for 2009? Tell your editor he needs another red pen. Great piece anyway.
This article failed to mention how many of these firefighters house payments are made from the money from the boot drive. That is fact, check it out Las Vegas Sun.
The nature of the job is that they sometimes get paid to do nothing. The "boot drive" issue needs to be separated from the fact that they're overpaid. If they're going to be sitting around the firehouse they may as well be out collecting. It's not as though they're being personally enriched by collecting donations.
How many firefighers donate 1 week of their paid vacation time? What is the percentage of firefighters that donate 1 week paid vacation per year? How much paid vacation do firefighters get per year?
Do you know there are real people who have jobs that get -0- paid vacation time. Just lucky to get a paycheck and if they take time off from work, they get docked pay. So it must be nice to even have a job that gives you paid vacation time.
ComeOnMan,
You make me laugh FF's are taxpayers too. Lower salaries means less taxes for welfare. You must be on it if you feel its being bled by people who have jobs. Go after people that really do bleed the system in this economy. Why not go after all those homeowners that walked away from their McMansions when they knew they couldn't afford them. Maybe you are one? I don't want to pay for your bad investment choices.
I'm sure anyone that has a job has never wasted time on the clock. Taken a longer break than they should, or been on a personal phone call for hours? Surfing the internet or checking Face Book! Oh, that never happens on the clock. Oh my, they are doing charity work on the clock! It is so terrible! Take it up with your County Commissioner that is out golfing in the name of the taxpayer.
I bet half the people that are posting on here haven't done anything for charity. They like their money too much. I for one get to choose my charities to support.
I am working one day a week at the present time. Where is my boot?
During this past Christmas' toy drive, I asked one of the firefighters if he and his team was on the clock so to speak, and he answered, NO, we are not getting paid for this. From what I'm reading, it appears that the young man lied to me. If others dispute this claim, then please let me know and I will withdraw this comment. Chris G, needs to be shown the freaken highway as she is overwhelmingly too attached to the firefighters! She's probably a millionaire as well, or living a very "comfortable" life!
To jjj:
That number for 2009 is $204,389.
Thanks.
Over threee days they collect and everyone participates? I am willing to bet they made more then they collected!!!
I can't even look at these guys when I see them at the grocery store holding a boot. I have lost all respect for firefighters and I am sure I am not the only one.
Its okay though...stay strong and continue to be union puppets. Do as they say and THEY will continue to be happy!
As someone mentioned earlier; Lets get out and support whomever runs anti firemen or lets support the opponent of whomever their dictator union director says they have to endorse!
ITS OBAMAS FAULT. Government ran fire departments are socialism. The embodiment of all evil. Why spend money on them I WANT IT ALL
yeah,i'm gonna donate to someone who makes 5-6x what i do..okay.
I dont think the problem even lies with the Firefighters collecting the money on duty. The money they raise here does not even stay here in Las Vegas. And if it did, you wouldnt know from the support of the local MDA office. As a client, when calling to get help with one of the services, the lady never calls you back. You call and call and she is always busy. Busy doing what? Getting paid to do something else while she is on the clock too? Because it definitely is not helping the clients of the local MDA. So Firefighters, collect money for an organization that does help our actual local community.
This Chris G. is becoming a hazard to our city. She is so liberal, she is probably drooling on her blouse right now. Getting overpaid to collect money for the foolish MDA that always talks about "the cure", and never produces anything but experimental drugs that don't work?
For this we pay over 100G a year to connected GED educated layabouts? Say it ain't so, Jerry Lewis. Chris, you are in trouble, you need to wake up, or you'll be defeated next term. Good.
My guess is that if the firefighters stood behind a large sign that stated "I'm being paid (fill in the blank) per hour to collect for Jerry's Kids" the donations would go waaaay down.
First of all, the money that is donated by the generous people in the town goes directly to MDA. If you think for one second that these guys are pocketing the money and "paying their mortgages" you are wrong! Secondly, this firefighting bashing is absolutely ridiculous and un-American! Who comes when you call for help? The FIRE DEPT and POLICE DEPT! You have no right to moan and complain and then call 911!! If your complaint is that they make more money than you.... get a different job! They work very hard and deserve our Thank yous! They don't make nearly what they are worth! Stop hating and go do something valuable and charitable with your time...... Like our firefighters do!!
Wow, this article just proves to me the choices the LV Sun (and the RJ for that matter) continue to run biased articles. I see one side of a story here, seems to me that Sisolak is using the paper to push his propaganda and creating another way to make the fire departments look bad. Like the article said this practice has been going on for years and now it is being brought up again? I think this has to do more with being a election year than anything. What about the fact that these fire fighters are choosing to make a difference and helping children with a disease that has no cure? Helping and organization that receives no funding from our government? I missed that in the article. Unfortunately Sisolak's agenda will only hurt one group of people: MDA families. I myself fully support our fire department. Even though they are on duty while helping a great cause, if they are not out there filling the boot they would be back in the firehouse waiting for the next call. Find something else to talk about because this seems like a non issue to me
This effort is connected to the local Jerry Lewis Telethon, or always has been in the past. As long as they are not neglecting their regular duties, leave them alone.
The poster that claims they are taking donations for personal gain, back that accusation up, show us the proof.
The firefighters have a larger problem of figuring out how their compensation is going to fit in with our new lower revenue.
Everyone that hate FF's needs to start posting where they work and what business they own so that all FD's will avoid spending money there. After all, why should they support those that hate them? I need your name, your bosses name,and/or business name to start the list. Ok, start posting so that they don't support your livelyhood.
Sphinkter, If the Sun reported that rocks walked you would believe it.
In response to Tthlt.......the first place to start is all firefighters should cancel their subscription to the Rj and Sun. They refuse to publish a story with the correct information, I've never seen such onsided journalism in my life. Next all the haters along with the Rj and Sun should ask the elected officials a few questions. Did you or did you not sign off on paying OT vs hiring more people? Do you want fire engines and rescues shut down in your ward or district? Come on Rj or Sun reporter I dare you to ask every Council member or Commissioner these questions. The Truth might come out.....probaly wouldn't make for as good of news, huh.
Cheers to Sisolak for fighting against the Fire Department. Most of these guys make over $200k a year, they can't even raise enough money to equal one of their salaries? Lazy bums. Anybody that wants to see how these guys are raping this city, go to this site: http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/20...
I would like to tell them where they can stick that boot!
you people are DISGUSTING. firefighters risk their LIVES to save you, your homes, your loved ones in an emergency. before you jump down people's throats why dont you take FIVE seconds to look at the children who have muscular dystrophy and how hard it is for their families AS WELL as the fact that these firefighters are constantly on call to save YOU if YOU need it. i may be a sh*tty person for saying this but i hope one of your houses is set up in flames and then maybe you'll think before you write stupid articles and leave dumb comments.
shame on all of you. horrible horrible people YOU are.
Our issue is not with the charity...it's with the firefighters getting paid for doing what should be done voluntarily on their own time.
It is truly amazing to me how biased opinions in order to make news and votes mind you, can change so many peoples way of thinking. I am disgusted with the Review Journal and Sun paper and with all the narrow minded people that think firefighters sit around in lazy boy chairs watching tv. If you have constructive opinions and solutions why not address them at the public meetings instead of showing the HATRED for the honorable men and women that risk their lives everyday for you. My god, it's like a witch hunt!!
The shape of things to come, as seen through the eyes of the people who live and pay taxes in Flint, MI.
On March 24th, after the Police and Fire Unions refused to take concessions to help the city stave off 8 million dollar deficit, the city was forced to lay-off 1/3 of the police force and 1/4 of the firemen. The effective date of the lay-offs would be Thursday, March 25th at 8AM.
After the unions refused to help, eight fires mysteriously started within a 18 hour period and burned down several residential structures that were vacant. Two of the firemen were slightly injured and the next day, along with the others, were given their pink slips.
City officials are still investigating and have yet to identify the person or persons responsible.
Anyone want to bet on who's responsible?
They would rather let their brothers end up on unemployment than to take a pay cut, share the pain and keep all working.
I guess this is what is meant by the saying, "they eat their own"!
Fact: They do sit around in lazy boy chairs watching tv.
I wouldn't mind if they were raising money that helped Clark County directly. on a different note, all these firefighters wives and badge chasers crack me up. If you don't see anything wrong with the current pay system for firefighters, you're blind.
While I think they make too much and do not like the way they take advantage of days off, I would just as soon have them collecting money for a charity than sitting watching TV in the station.
It is starting to get very knit-picking.
Mr. Sisolak and Las Vegas Sun; The parents of children with MD want to thank you. Thank you for helping to try and take away any dignity, hope and comfort that this might provide them.
Tthlt,
In response to your assumtions. Beleive it or not I work for one of the largest companies in the world, and we are union! On top of that, I am a shop steward for our union! Unions are supposed to insure fair wages, safe workplaces, good benefits, and maybe even a chance to retire some day! What the firefighters union has done is rape the taxpayer! How? By negotiating with very "friendly" people! It is easy to negotiate a contract when you get everything you want!!! As far as wasting time on the clock goes....I'll leave that for lames like you. Every minute of my day is logged into a computer! Not one second wasted! That's how a real company works!(Oh, I am enjoying one of those great paid option days today)
After coming to this country illegally, I started to learn the the taxpayer will pay for everything. When I have a medical problem, I'll just dial 911 and have the FD come to my house, provide me a ride to the hosipital, with the highest level of customer service. I know the taxpayer will pay for it. Oh, yeah and after I bought my McMasion (through charitable organizations) that I knew I couldn't keep up, I knew the taxpayer would save me. After, having my five kids, I knew they could get a free education and a free breakfast. When times get really tough, I can walk into any shelter and get free clothes, and a free hot cup of tea. All through the hard work of taxpaying citizens like the Firemen.
Next on my list, is going to the DMV because of my undocumented status, I don't need a social security card, past two bills (since I don't pay any), no passport since I'm on the terrorist list, or my marriage certificate since I'm playing the system as a single mom. Thank you taxpayer for supporting my livelyhood.
hey tundra...
did you make around $250k last year???
All...have a friend in public service. I wrote an email to the Sun when I found out, that not only do they get paid for doing charitable work...some get OVERTIME.
It disgusts me that the firefighters take advantage of the system and hide behind, this "hero" characterization. If they really want to be Hero's then STOP TAKING ADVANTAGE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS WHO PAY YOUR SALARY.
The Firefighters also get these crazy overtime salaries adding close to 30% of their pay overtime. Here is how the scam works.
Firefighter "John" tells his fighter friend, "Pete" that he will call in sick one day this week. Pete covers his shift and gets OVERTIME. The next week Pete calls in sick and John works his shift getting OVERTIME.
The SOLUTION would be to internally stop this SCAM and hire a third party auditor or internal investigator to keep tabs on this....OR have the firefighters be HEROs and DO THE RIGHT THING BY NOT TAKING ADVANATAGE OF THE SITUATION.
Go get the Sisolak!!!!
And for all the people sticking up for these guys...Look at that Transparent Nevada Website and see how much OVERTIME pay the fire fighters get.
hey steve...
bravo!!!
these blood suckers must be stopped...
before they ruin our community...
keep beating the drum steve...
i have no doubt...
none whatsoever...
that the public is behind you!!!
And another piece of Old Vegas comes under fire ... Keep tearing it down, people, and then wonder why you have nothing to replace it with when you are finished.
Shoenmann and Sisolack, All you did today was crush many hopes of kids that depend on this money for camp and medical supplies. I hope you both can live with yourselves. To the earlier post: As far as the toys for tots at christmas, toys are collected and distributed off-Duty.
The bashers on here are in the vast minority. After collecting this year, we did not have one person kick us the boot, in fact it has been good because the public can actually hear the other side of this yellow journalism. All were very supportive.
From what I am hearing also, all Firestations in the valley have cancelled, or are in the process of cancelling The Las Vegas Inquirer and the Sun. The word is spreading Joe, facebook has almost a thousand members on one of thier sites promoting cancelling subscriptions. Keep up the good work Joe, Your paper is booming with new subscriptions! Not!
Wow! It is very clear to me that you firefighter haters have no idea what you are talking about! FYI the money that they supposedly make is not so! The papers are lying to you!!! Yes, it is possible that not everything you read is true. You are bitter and sad. How about fighting for a real cause....like disease or hunger. These brave, hardworking, educated, beautiful human beings are not the cause of your troubles.
Seaturtlekel is the one firefighter who somehow missed out and only makes minimum wage. They were keeping it secret from him and we weren't supposed to tell him how much his cohorts really make.
To HL9000,
Why are you even here posting? If your so upset that you and yours are being bashed by the paper to the point where you are canceling you subscriptions then why do you come to this site and read the articles? Being that you are a ff and make in excess of 150K, I guess it's okay to read these article because you're at the firehouse, getting paid(maybe even getting OT) and the internet is provided free there for you to use. Of course, it isn't free, It's just being paid for by the taxpayers.
look at these blowhards trying to spin it...
show some class...
leave the kids out of it...
the public supports the kids...
it's not about the kids...
it's about the excessive greed firemen continue to display!!!
fire them all...
start over from scratch...
if reagan could do it with air traffic controllers...
you sure as hell could do it with firemen...
save the community...
fire all of the firemen!!!
steve sisolak for governor!!!
What if teachers were caught working fundraising car washes for trips/supplies on school-day/contract time? It wouldn't even be debated. The luvgov would immediately shut down all public schools for abuse.
This proves my point that we have too many of these high paid firemen and we need to wise up and review how many of them we actually need. We already know that they have so many free time on their hands so they have to do some of these activities while getting paid big bucks from our taxes. Hang in there Steve, their union will be after you for exposing their scam and they will do anything to discredit you.
If they really cared about the charity, they would collect contributions during their off days...oh I forgot, their off days is their time to rake in the big OT dough.
Sounds like the "Sean Hannity Freedoms Concerts"
give a dime make a dollar.
Since it's the taxpayers dime that's funding this charity drive, why not give the taxpayers some input as to what charities are being solicited? I'm sure all of us have a favorite charity...some MDA...some not. But if I'm paying someone to collect donations I should get a say where the money goes.
the fact of the matter is the FF are over paid. dangerous job? They knew that going in,but to be paid six figures,ridiculous.In this economy they should take a pay cut.
Chris G., what union logo pajamas are you going to wear tonight? The purple SEIU ones? Or maybe the ones with the IBEW lightning bolt? Nope, I bet it's the IAFF union Jammies with the big "professional firefighter" logo emblazoned on the front. Didn't you and Dina Titus both get sets from all the unions?
Labdaddy. You have just hit on the reason why this should not be done on company time. Every two-bit special interest group (including hate groups) will demand that they be allowed to solicit on the taxpayer dime.
Barack Insane Obama travels the country selling his health-care agenda. Harry Criminal Reid holds fund-raisers for his campaign, etc, etc. All on your money.
Start at the top and work your way down.
larry5, I agree with you, but since firefighters in LV make more than both Harry Reid and President Obama, we are starting at the top and working down.
I guess HL900 had to leave to go to the gym to work out. Then it's off to Costco. There's a sale on lobster and rib eye steak.
to Seaturtlekel:
According to the "revised" Clark County Employee Compensation Overview, dated Feb. 25, 2010, the average compensation packages for county firefighters in 2009, and this includes benefits, was $181,259. The average compensation for a Clark County battalion chief was $288,785.
I think it's so sad that the Firefighter's are all getting painted with the same brush. They are NOT all getting paid as much as Sisolack claims and are NOT all taking advantage of the system with sick time. My husband is an extremely hard working firefighter that sees his job as much more than just a job. He's an amazing man of integrity that any employer would be lucky to have as an employee. I'm not looking for a "pity vote" here, I just want you to understand what exactly they go though to keep us safe. Any parent of a newborn knows how much waking up several times a night does to your system. This is what they do (not only for a few months) every single shift. Do the research. This is terrible for their health. The danger they face fighting fires freaks me out beyond belief. I fear that one day my girls will be left without their Daddy- this is the reality we live with everyday. Not to mention how difficult it is to have Daddy away for 24-72 hours at a time. We don't complain- it's a job, and a great one that is very rewarding with or without a paycheck.
Let's consider both sides here.
As far as the boot drive goes, I'm totally blown away that anyone would even complain or disagree with it. If they get a call, they take the it and go right back. What's the problem??
ComeOnMan,
Something is fishy about your statements of union background. If you are a shop steward of one of the largest companies then you are a AFLCIO member as are the FF's and for one AFLCIO member to slam another is a violation of your union oath. Hummmmm.
A union member would see another union's successes in a negotiated contract with elected officals and learn from it as taught to you in your annual and semiannual meetings. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your Union Oath and drop the jelaousy.
Plus, if you are doing your job and "Not one second wasted" according to you. You shouldn't be wasting your employers money by responding to my posts. Maybe you need to start talking to "friendly" people so they can tell you to stop pretending to be something you are not. You still make me laugh.
What a bunch of jealous Mofo's. The comments on here are as ridiculous as Sisolak and Shoenmann themselves. All of you are able to hide behind fake names, (yes I'm doing the same) or hide behind the ability to print a biased letter. Sisolak is a dirt bag ex-telemarketer. How about the Sun do a story on this guys background and see how many of you blog twits then want him for your governor. Sisolak has been a disgrace and now that he has his one forum that he thinks will save his career as a commissioner, he can't turn back. So he'll keep feeding Shoenmann "questionable practice after questionable practice questions" so he can keep looking like some type of miracle tax payer fixer to the dumb twits on here who's best responses are "fire them all"....And Shoenmann will keep printing his biased stories that show his lack of journalistic integrity.....That's brilliant, fire them all. Amazing how dumb some of you people are!
hello all ignorant citizens of southern nevada. I would like to explain how the boot drive works so you can form an educated opinion versus what has already been posted. The local firefighters go out and collect money to help the MDA. They have been doing this since the 60's which is when local firefighters started collecting for the cause with their boots. Two of those pioneers ironically since have died due to Muscular Dystrophy. More firefighters have been diagnosed since then also with this life and career ending disease. This is one major reason why firefighters hold the MDA so near and dear to their hearts. Secondly if you took the time to talk to the families affected by Muscular Dystrophy or the members of the local MDA office you would know that the MDA receives $0.00 annually from the government or united way since they feel not enough people are affected by this horrible disease. Over 460 families are affected just in our local area. Many families had their healthy and active elementary school child start noticing disturbances in their normal walking and balance abilities which shortly after leads to confinement to a wheelchair and then a short life span. The MDA relies solely on the funding from donations which are raised annually, and the largest donator to the MDA is the IAFF (International Association of Firefighters.) The local office needs to raise at least 1.13 million dollars each year just to support the existing families, let alone new families diagnosed with this horrible disease. The local office states, no family is turned away. So back to the topic mentioned above of why firefighters pick the MDA exclusively to raise money for... that is the major reasons why. Secondly about collecting on duty... All of the firefighters you see raising money are in their first in districts, just like if they were at their station waiting for a call. In some cases they are even closer to calls depending on where they need to respond. This year not all departments are able to boot drive on duty for different reasons and so there have been many firefighters raising money on their time off and not "raking in the big OT dough" as some uninformed person wrote earlier. Also do you think the boot drive just happens with the waving of a magic wand? There are meetings monthly that are attended off duty by local firefighters, the supplies is delivered to stations by off duty firefighters, and the money is collected by off duty firefighters, all of which is time away from their families.
Someone should check the government computers at the fire stations. Most likely a bunch of these FF bloggers are at work, posting in these forums, and getting paid big bucks by taxpayers.
Every year local firefighters staff the MDA camp and volunteer 7 24 hour days to help make one week a year normal for the children affected by this disease. How come that wasn't mentioned yet... oh yeah back to the ignorance thing.... sorry I forgot. Instead of sitting in front of your expensive computer with high speed internet or better yet while at work commenting the slanderous article above, why don't you research the MDA @ MDA.org and learn what it is all about. Or better yet why don't you take some time out of your day and call the local office, or go meet these extraordinary children that have higher maturity levels than most adults I have ever met because they have to deal with this disease on a daily basis.
On a side note for one of the comments above, firefighters work 56 hour work weeks. If you do the math, that is 7 days a week 8 hour shifts. Look at your job... imagine your hourly rate and multiply that times 224 then multiply that times 12. What do you get???? probably more money than the average firefighter. Entry level firefighters make 46,000.00 per year working the mentioned hours and dealing with the physical stressors of our job, as well as the mental. Please do your homework before you believe everything the media has to offer.
Thanks for your time and hopefully your opinions can be more educated in the future.
$181,259!!!
what the hell is going on!!!
boys and girls...
i have decided to run for public office...
i will be a 1 issue candidate...
i will fire all of the firemen...
then hire new ones...
no fireman will make more than $75,000...
period...
end of story...
that's my platform...
think i have a shot???
The funny part is that they are scheming for overtime pay while holding the boot.
Which firehouse are you with, Toros?
chris090408 if you think for one second that any local goverment workers make more than the president or Mr. Reid you need to research some facts. My guess is if look deep enough you will find the people making the real money are your corrupt politians. Remember "G sting" I am sure there are many more, after all the mayor was a mob lawyer. As for the rest of the anti fireman folks out there, I am tired of hearing about this crap the fact is these people work hard and they will be the first call you make when you are in trouble. If they have it so great, you should all be standing in line to pick up an application, or are you afraid of seeing dead people, afraid of fire, don't have the mental stregth to deal with blood and guts in real life, afraid of heights, scared that you might come down with cancer or some disease? Accouding to what I have read all you need is a high school deploma right? If you finished high school get in line, I am sure they would love to have you. As for me, I will stick with my job behind this desk processing claims, hoping that one day the local paper will find something news worthy for me to read on my coffee break. Please enough is enogh already.
This is an issue exactly because firefighters are overpaid for what they do. If they were not so overpaid, this would not be an issue. That is the point. Maybe the charity should reevaluate its association with the overpaid firefighters.
The problem really is not the Firemen. Its the public unions. Its happening all across the country. Unions for public jobs, passed into law by the top Democrat Kennedy. Now 50 years later look what we have. My guess is that these unions are probably unconstitutional, and would not pass Supreme Court muster. anyone have any case law on this ???
Nobody wants to hate firemen, they have an essential, important job, and deserve a good living with good benefits. Unfortunately the pay system here has been exploited. Las Vegas firefighters earn 56% more than the national average for firefighters, and stop harping on how dangerous it is, yes it is more dangerous than most jobs, but as I research I can only find 5 in the line of duty deaths over the past 50 or so years, and some of those were things like cancer.
The funny thing is that if the firefighter's unions hadn't been so greedy and unwilling to negotiate their contracts while the rest of the city and county jobs were being cut, none of this would have ever been brought to light.
I can't believe I'm going to type this......but I guess I will vote for birdiedreamin!
How loud would the screams get if Clark County voters said that all county employees (including elected officials) must receive healthcare packages based on the new national guidelines? For that matter, does anyone want to bet that the FF union will find a way to be exempted from the "cadillac tax" that they most likely will face in 2018 for their package?
To Firemanfred
Why, because online is free thats why I will read them. Subscriptions are not. Plus there is always 2 sides to every story, and the paper wont print ours. So I guess I will have to settle with debating degenerate nitwits like you. As far as your other acusations, all incorrect! Come on, you can come up with something better than that?
To Fireman Fred:
I have an Idea, why dont you come out and protest where people are doing the boot drive?
I think I will campaign for birdiedreamin - and give as much as I can to charity while I give the wonderful firefighters the boot!
To all you firecryers(Firemen),
If you don't like the system here that allows us to find out how much you really make, then I suggest that you all resign and go find work elsewhere. All your spouting about how many hours you have to work, that in the end you really don't make that much is just crap! We know it because the newspaper posted what each and everyone of you make including the OT vs Sick-pay. Your whining doesn't hold a candle to the truth. That's probably why you won't subscribe to the paper anymore. So if all that the paper and people like me say is one side and for some yet to be discovered truth has not been brought to light, then I say tell us your name so we ALL will know what you make, or don't make. Otherwise, I here there looking for some firefighters in Flint to rid the town of too many houses.
This whole nonsense with the FF in Vegas is like an onion, the more layers you peel away the more it stinks.
Sisolak, I don't care what your background is. Don't be intimidated. Stay strong. The public
(with the exception of ff and those related to them on their meal ticket) support you. There should not be any negotiations going on right now. Let the contract expire, first step in fixing this mess.
........or maybe I am wrong. Because as you firemen continue to remind us........ you're all heros! Remember the World Trade Center!
Now those Police and Fire men and women were AND ARE HEROS!
You just want to ride their coat tails.
As far as the MGM, most of you were still crapping in your diapers then and the ones who did fight it are now at the top of the seniority collecting all that MASSIVE PAY.
Come on fred, Start the protest! Come out! Protest!
It is a sad day when people are coming after people(firefighters) who raise money for disabled kids. How far down will you really go on this crusade? Do you people have no shame? Las Vegas has to be one of the saddest cities in America. No where else will you find people that act in this matter. Our local newspapers are protected by the First Amendment, and can unfortunately, print anything they want true or untrue. There job is to sell newspapers, and it seems they will go to any end to accomplish this. There is no other city in America where the media attacks the people( Fire Dept. and Metro) who come to help you when everything is going wrong.... and sadly there is no other city where the citizens actually buy into the media's lies (slander and libel) about these people.
Unsilent majority, You have the wrong screen name, it should be unsilent minority...Join Fred Protest!
To htoheb:
While the boot drive continues in the Las Vegas area, it has been banned in Omaha, Neb. See story here: http://www.omaha.com/article/20100312/NE...
Union members in public sector make about 1.8 times what employees in privates sector earn for doing much less work. Overtime rules that can be easily milked, 30 & out to qualify for large pensions/double dipping. This is causes budget problems in many states and at federal level too. The same unions donate millions to political candidates in return for their support @ contract time. Taxpayers get screwed.
why is it so hard for the FF supporters to understand? We are not indebted to FF because they show up to work and do their jobs. We pay them for that. They dont get to take advantage of us because its a tough job.
YOU GET PAID FOR DOING WORK
Thats it. We do not pay for raising money for a private cause. you cant just pick one charity over another when you work for gov.
Just because you get 2 weeks sick time doesnt mean you take 2 weeks sick time. That would be dishonest and taking advantage.
Joeschoenmann.... Thank you for clarifying that there is ONE other city that banned the boot drive. I guess all of your kids are 100% healthy? My question is... where was all this talk of banning boot drives and badgering public servants for the last eight years when times were good?
HL9000 what is that extortion or a threat? keep quiet or we wont service your fire call? dont protest around us or else? F U and your silly sci fi name. You are wrong sir. You and your boys are not entitled to take advantage of the system because the job is dangerous.
hey hl9000...
tell you what skippy...
where are you stationed???
maybe we could organize a protest outside your station...
maybe we could bring a television crew along...
generate more publicity for these OUTRAGEOUS salaries...
and you never know...
maybe i will announce my candidacy based on a one issue platform...
firing all firemen and replacing them at a salary of no more than $75,000...
beware my friend...
support for birdie is building...
what do you say skipster???
Police Fireman Vets - these are read flags - check before you donate. Boot Was going on in W Virginia.
Until, Hannity and his local radio station clarify what is going on with his "charity concerts", I'm not donating. The tickets are not refundable, because it is going to "charity."
Why don't we have licensed homeless people collect donations and pay them?
The only legitimate question is whether or not the use of public resources for private charity is permissable and the attendent question of who decides what charities qualify for this if it is.
One could argue that if it is permitted to support one, then ALL requests for such support must be honored from any legal charity.
I am certain that at least a few of the people who say this practice is harmless would sing a different toon if the charity being helped was one that provided free abortions.
The only reasonable approach is in fact to ban the practice as a mis-use of public resources.
To HL9000(and all the rest of you firethugs),
Your day will come. You think you can threaten the citizens of Clark County? You will push too far and the people will respond.
We get your message. You have decided that you deserve more than the rest of use who pay your salary.
Your time is coming and I wait with relish.
not a single threat must be allowed to stand...
let's turn up the heat on the politicians...
does anybody know the details of the current contract???
who voted for it???
when does it expire???
what are the procedures for negotiating a new contract???
hey joe schoemann...
excellent article...
maybe you could write another article and address some of these questions...
keep up the good work...
Whatever became of the allegations that firefighters were collecting cash and writing personal checks and making tax deductions? Did anyone ever get charged or is this an IRS matter?
vegasbike is correct.... I remember something about that issue. Did anybody ever get reprimanded at the very least? Because those accusations and that story was about this annual boot drive.
Somebody with the knowledge please inform us all.
Thought the firefighters only used those boots to store the loot from fires.
To all the firefighters who say they may not go to my house if it is on FIRE .. That is fine with me.. I HAVE FIRE INSURANCE..
Who the hell are these arrogant SOB firefighters to threaten the citizens of Clark County with allowing their homes to burn. They are OUT OF CONTROL and must go.
I will probably never forgive myself, Birdie, but you've got my vote!
The horror... These people are the anti-Christ.... We should fire all of them... Did you hear that they donate thousands of hours of their own off duty time to the MDA. They are terrible people! They also raised a tremendous amount of money for the make a wish foundation. Awful!!! Oh and the Childrens Heart Foundation... Thousands and thousands of dollars and hundreds and hundreds of hours... These guys should be thrown in prison!!! Oh yeah... And when these guys run emergencies on needy families they pull money out of their own pockets to take care of them. How dare they... Oh yeah, that's the taxpayers money anyway, right... If we could get rid of this disgusting display of humanity we could actually reach our states goal of having the worst infant mortality rate, increase our children's rate of death... Let's go Nevada .. Let's hurt the one group of people that are trying to make a difference in the community. One last disgusting act these clowns do... They visit our children's schools and teach them fire safety, read to them for reading week, raise money and provide clothes for needy families... I'm thinking this behavior is absolutely unacceptable! Fire them all!!!
This is one of those heros these firemen are proud of:
A Clark County firefighter is in jail. He's accused of trying to steal from those helping others. It's a story News 3 Investigator Darcy Spears broke two weeks ago.
Firefighters across the valley are wondering how they could have been betrayed by one of their own. Vance Planck was vice president of the Firefighters Of Southern Nevada Burn Foundation. With that title came responsibility for fundraising and handling the money from boot drives and other charitable events. What he did with some of that money is what landed him in jail.
Planck turned himself in this morning after being formally charged with two counts of burglary and three counts of theft. Police traced nearly $15,000 back to Planck's personal bank account and cash at his home. Money raised during boot drives by the Burn Foundation for victims of Hurricane Katrina and for the wife of a firefighter injured during a muscular dystrophy boot drive. He also allegedly stole money raised during a fundraiser at Sheila Tarr Elementary School.
"We just hope this doesn't hinder what the community thinks we do," said Burn Foundation member Nate Pechacek. "We're very sorry this happened, but it did get caught early and all the money has been recovered and we just want to emphasize that."
Actually, Metro is still doing some accounting, so it's possible they may discover more. Vance Planck was granted a "walk-through" by Judge Karen Bennett-Heron, which some consider special treatment. It means he'll be released from jail in a matter of hours, won't have to post bail, and won't have to appear in court until his arraignment in mid-December.
http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=4...
"Did you hear that they donate thousands of hours of their own off duty time to the MDA"
They should...they get plenty of off duty time.
"Oh and the Childrens Heart Foundation... Thousands and thousands of dollars and hundreds and hundreds of hours"
They should...they get plenty of off duty time.
"And when these guys run emergencies on needy families they pull money out of their own pockets to take care of them"
They should...they can afford it.
"They visit our children's schools and teach them fire safety, read to them for reading week, raise money and provide clothes for needy families"
Probably while getting paid overtime...at taxpayer expense!
"One last disgusting act these clowns do... They visit our children's schools and teach them fire safety, read to them for reading week ..." - mach1
Those two activities are the only legitimate use of on-duty time that you mentioned, the reading is a stretch but I can see a reasonable argument for it. If those activities were being done on OT then I would raise hell over it.
I understand that you were being facetious, but all of the other activities you listed are in fact not approrpriate uses of public resources. And that includes if performed on personal time but with the aid of Fire Department equipment. It is a de-facto endorsement by the taxpayers of whatever cause is being promoted. But who decides what causes are worthy? I choose to support the Savation Army at times but won't donate to Goodwill because I think Goodwill is not very efficient. Should I now think that it is okay if the FF, or any government entity, uses my taxmoney (by using resources) or my implied endorsement to promote either charity without my input?
get off the position that FF merits cancel out demerits. are priests allowed to molest children because of their holiness? Again, because the FF comes to our aide when we need them does not entitle them to game the systems that prevent fraud.
birdie, I support you....... oh my, my keyboard just burst into flames.
"Thought the firefighters only used those boots to store the loot from fires."- tvegas
Thats just outrageous. That might happen in other cities, but here in Vegas they would actually have to fight fires for that to happen.
To FiremanFred- Now now, we don't point out the fact that these guys steal in any way possible, or game the system. These things get swept under the rug. This guy will probably be back scamming OT in a few months.
If you want an idea of how heroic ff are in general, take a look at what happened in Flint, MI when they tried to lay-off ff last week. Maybe mach1,tundra, and hl9000 can tell us how its just a coincidence. They want to keep p*****g down our backs and tell us its raining.
Take up the cause birdie, I'll vote for you.
I have friends that are firefighters. I know how much of those 56 hours you actually work yellowguy. I also know how much overtime my buddies made their first couple of years. Nice try on that one too yellowguy.
The physical requirements to be a firefighter are hard, but we don't live on the East Coast. I don't see all the danger in putting out fires in SFR as opposed to skyscrapers and hi-rise towers with out-of-date sprinkler systems.
First..The MDA is one of the worst charities to donate to. A kid with MD needed a wheelchair..wouldn't you think the MDA would have helped him--Hell no! Poor kid had to have a local bar do a fundraiser so he could get a wheelchair. So where the heck is all the money?
Second..Why do FF's think they are so special? Why can't all county workers use company time & TAXPAYER $ to stand on a corner and collect money for a charity they support? They seem to get alot more altruistic when they are being paid to do so. My boyfriend volunteers all the time for different causes..AND IT IS ON HIS OWN TIME--not paid time. That's true charity!
BTW... To all the FF's..the clock is tickin on your contract..then you are gone! So abuse the system all you can now..because your gravy train is coming to a halt!
Some of these comments really make no sense ....All the people saying that they're not going to donate money to the firefighters doing the boot drive because they make 10x more then them are ignorant your not donating to the firefighters your donating to the MDA that money goes to sending kids to camp and to help pay for wheelchairs and support the families who deal with this disease on a daily basis im starting to think that the only people that realize what the firemen and women do for the families outside of the boot drive and ON THERE OWN TIME is amazing ...Give them the credit they deserve and Stop looking for problems that arent there !!!!
Plenty of time??? FFs before overtime works the equivelant of seven- 8 hr shifts per week. Throw in overtime and they are working between 400 and 450- 8 hr shifts a year... Do the math this is a fact... They still find time to volunteer 100s of hours and thousands of dollars off duty. Boot drive for the MDA is only a few hours on duty per ff. As for fire safety classes at the school and supporting reading week. The majority is ff off duty supporting these events. Nonetheless... Evil people... Fire them all!
What makes all the the hates out there think that Fireman don't pay taxes,, quit saying my TAX $$$$, THEY PAY TAXES TO!!! as for Birdiedreamin,firemen fred, please go back on your meds you both need real help,
mach1, quit spewing crap. FF work 3 24hr shifts every 11 days. Look at the union website, they post the schedule there. 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 6 off. There is plenty of time on those 6 days off to do whatever they want. And you should do the math based on normalizing the hours worked over a full year for non-FF workers. Not nearly as much a difference as you want us to believe.
But go beyond that. Even if they were doing it on their own time, why do they need to use the FF image as a prop? They are intentionally telling us that FF support this charity and using taxpayer provided materials to do so. What if the charity being promoted is one that some taxpayers do not wish to support?
SISOLAK RAPES THE TAXPAYERS OUT OF 16.6 MILLION DOLLARS.... Seems to me he is the CROOK!
McCarran and the county lost a suit brought by Steve Sisolak, who claimed various height-restriction ordinances issued by the county limited the development of his 10 vacant acres and impeded his ability to sell the land.
In addition to challenging the height restrictions, Sisolak said low and frequent flights over his land from McCarran devalued the property by subjecting it to noise, dust and fumes, which constituted a compensable taking.
A state court jury awarded him $6.5 million for inverse condemnation, and the trial court added costs, attorney fees and interest, bringing the total award to more than $16.6 million.
mach1, I posted the math for this once before, but I think it needs repeating for you.
Most people work 40 hours (5 x 8) out of a 168hr week (7 x 24 = 168). FF work 72 hours (3 x 24) out of a 264hr "week" (11 x 24 = 264). That means the normal worker spends 23.8% of their time working, a FF spends 27.3% of their time on duty (I would say working but we all know better). Now, if we assume that a FF is idle at the station for only 25% of the time they are on duty we can see that a FF works a LOT less than the average person does.
You can NOT compare FF work schedules to a normal week, they have an 11 day week, so you must normalize the hours first to get apples and apples.
Wow, it seems like every week, every single week, I read more about questionable practices by the firefighters in Las Vegas.
I have to agree with Sisolak's arguments - why does one charity benefit vs. others? Why not rotate it year to year? What IF cops and teachers and city employees sucking off the gov't teet also asked for this kind of special privilege? Who wouldn't prefer to get out and raise some money while being paid a great salary to do so?
What is going on out there?!
FF work 56 hrs per week... Last I calculated 7x8=56. Since math isn't a strength... Many FFs are working between 500-800 hours OT per year... At 52 weeks that's approximately 10- 15 additional hours per week. We'll use an easy average of 12 hours a week. So 56+12=68 hours per week. 68hrs divided by 8hr shifts = 8.5 - 8 hr shifts per week. Multiply that by 52 weeks and that's 442- 8 hr shifts... That's a FACT!!!
"During this past Christmas' toy drive, I asked one of the firefighters if he and his team was on the clock so to speak, and he answered, NO, we are not getting paid for this. From what I'm reading, it appears that the young man lied to me. If others dispute this claim, then please let me know and I will withdraw this comment. Chris G, needs to be shown the freaken highway as she is overwhelmingly too attached to the firefighters! She's probably a millionaire as well, or living a very "comfortable" life!"
What makes you think he lied? There are actually quite a number of charitable organizations where FF's donate their time. Lot of money collected by FF's and lots of money donated by the FF's which is why the charitable organizations REQUEST their presence and participation...
I had to drink a 6 pack for this but I'm voting for birdie.
No FD in the valley works 1 on 1 off 1 on 1 off 1 on 6 off... That is just plain wrong. Get your facts straight!
Watch out people! The firewives are back from the spa and are getting stirred up. By the way, if your husbands think that they work too much, by all means then they should resign. I'm sure they would still be able to pay for all the things you expect, with all that education they bring to the table. I can hear it now..... paging Dr Firethug to the ER! Yeah, right. More likely, Firethug to isle six, a baby just lost it's cookies.
It is actually 23.5 million that Sisolak bilked Clark County taxpayers out of in a frivolous lawsuit.
mach1, you are trying to use a 7 day week for FF when they are based on an 11 day cycle. Try again.
A 7-day week has 168 hours. An 11-day cycle has 264 hours. To normalize a FF work cycle of 72 hours per 264 hours to a 40 hour work week we need to take of the ratio of 168/264 applied against 72 hours. That gives us 72 hours x .64 = 46 hours during a 168 hour period. That is significantly different that the 56 hours you are claiming. Now, when you figure that FF are NOT actually working that entire time you get a picture that is vastly at odds with what they would like to have us believe.
If the math is confusing then I strongly suggest you take a refresher course before you vote again on any budget issues on the ballet.
Boftx... That's fuzzy math... It's wrong nontheless... CCFD works 96 hrs in a 15 day cycle... NLVFD works 48 hrs in a 4 day period. CLVFD and Henderson work 72 hrs in a 9 day cycle. No matter how you slice it averages 56 hrs per week.
You must work for the media... If you throw out enough half baked info enough of it may stick. Effective tactic I must say!
.............. and with the way you firethugs (and wives come off all holier than thou), it's the taxpayers that want to loose their cookies in disgust. Heros for charity.......... (as long as your on the clock)
Way to go Mach1....... but I have to say that they don't want to here about the facts, they only what to say my tax$$$ and they are at the gym to much, and the steak dinner they are eating... but they pay out of there own money for those steaks and gym membership, O one more thing someone said that they have lazyboys at the firestation so WHAT!!!! what are you sitting on, beside your big fat butt!!!!!
Boftx... It's called averages... You could compare apples and apples with clear averages. If you want to do it your way fine... FF work 72 hr in 9 days... Average worker does 56 hours in 9 days... Any more math you'd like help with?
I stand corrected, I just went to the union website (http://www.iafflocal1908.org/index.cfm?s...) and see that it is in fact a 15 day cycle of 1 on 1 off 1 on 1 off 1 on 1 off 1 on 1 off 1 on 6 off.
Given that schedule the numbers work like this:
40/168 vs 120/360 which gives 23.8% vs 33.3%. That is 23.8% working vs 33.3% on duty. How much idle time do you wish to assume? If we take my 25% idle time, which I think is VERY conservative, we get 90hrs actually worked out of 360, which is a 25% portion. Now, if we use a 50% idle time, which is probably much closer to the truth we see that FF work only 17% of their week which is vastly less than the average worker's 23.3%.
By the way, FF do sleep during thier 24hr shift, so we know for a fact there is true idle time.
Before overtime
And just for the record, I get paid salary, without overtime. I am on-call 24/7 365 days/yr for my company and often have to respond to alerts outside of normal hours. I typically work 60hrs/week without counting alert responses. I also take time away when needed. That is what salary means. While things are better now, there were times when I never got to sleep more than 3 hours without having to respond to a system alert. Therefore I make a distinction between actual work and being on-call.
I knew what hours my job would entail when I was hired and negotiated a fair salary. The thought of asking for overtime pay for 24/7 response was not even a consideration by either myself or my employer, it was understood that the job required that. FF should be no different.
OK fuzzy... Staying with percentages... Suppose your idle time analogy is logical... At 25% idle figured into "at work time" of 33.3% of the time that means we are " working" 25%... Still more than the average worker. Should we not be paid for having to be at work and ready to respond??? Finally... These numbers have not included one second of overtime, which acounts for 30-50% of the pay that is posted in the media.
You either get salary with NO overtime or normal pay with OT. Salary with OT is a contradiction of terms.
Dear staff member and thisoneguy..... I am not a firefighter, just happen to know the facts because I do my own research which does not include the RJ or LV Sun as my factual sources. Ethics in journalism must not have been a course taken by those who write for them. Funny how when the economy was booming and this town was being set up to fail, nobody cared how much our firefighters made. Why now??? Are they worth less to you? Do they save less lives now? No they don't! The reported money that they make represents the total benefit package, not their take home salary.... Which is much less!! How about you all post what you do and how much you make and let us judge!
Time to privatize fire department. Let those pigs look for real work! Firefighters for the BLM make 9.00 an hour. Why do CCSD fire people make 200k? Thanks Rory! You go Rory! Go to UTah!!!!!!!
Love Cris G but Im with Sisolak on this one !!
Muscular Dystrophy is a great cause but its done on the clock its wrong Maybe the Attorney general should give an opinion ...if shes not drumming up a little publicity with the governor
mach 1, it is painfully obvious you don't get it. You're statement "before overtime"..... duh, genius..... that is what everybody's complaining about.
Almost every FF milks, games, plays and abuses the system.... they play "call back fever" ....
When your "on call" can you go home, go out to eat, visit family and friends??? Or do you have to be at work and able to respond out the door from anywhere or any situation in less than 60 seconds? It's just not the same. Do we have idle time? Absolutely... However, if we didn't we couldn't do our job. It's that taxing. We work hard to be ready, we respond and provide the best service we are capable of, then we come back, restock, write reports and attempt to get some rest before our next call... Sometimes there's more time for rest and others there is no time. It's not predictable and there truly is no rhyme or reason. Believe it or not we get paid a fair salary for our hours. Overtime is due to the county and city not hiring. Most FFs are working their normal shift and at least 1/3 of an unfilled vacancy. That's just the facts.
Most are involved in some charity work on their own time... MDA is one charity we help. It amounts to a few hours on duty per FF. We do this between calls, reports, training, eating, etc... On our "idle" time. Still able to respond. Still in our areas of responsibility. If you don't like it call your representative. We'll stop if it's that offensive. However, attacking us for helping others???
Ok Seaturtle, I'll go first. I am a computer programmer with a total package worth approximately $120k/yr when you include employer payments/taxes. I negotiated a deal based on a take-home pay of $6k/mo. I am on pure salary with no OT and I am on-call 24/7 365 days/yr, even when on vacation (what does "vacation" mean?). If I fail to respond my company could lose as much as $20k/hr. There are about 20 other employees that depend upon my doing my job correctly.
I am probably about in the middle for the job I do.
Get a life... Take the overtime away. I think that's a great idea. I've been a proponent for hiring more FFs for a long time. To say that even the majority of FFs are milking the system is just plain wrong. I personally can't wait for the audit and welcome it. You will then see that people milking the system is happening on a much smaller scale than the media is portraying. However, the media will blow it out of proportion again for ratings. No matter what I say or could prove to anyone here you will believe what you'd like. If anyone cares to, we welcome anyone and everyone to the fire station. Bring your questions and concerns. You may learn something you didn't know and thought you did.
mach1, I will agree that there is no way to put a price on a human life (at least no way that is objective). But in reality, what percentage of your calls actually save a life (please don't include EMT calls) as opposed to saving property.
Most people would attempt to save another person's life if called upon to do so, whether or not they got paid. Saving property is another issue, but most people would attempt that too, depending upon risk. I have personnaly done so on a number of occassions (does fighting forrest fires count?).
Simply put, I think the Clark County FF are over-compensated for the job they do. I would happily do that job if I could physically qualify for it. I know I can do your job, I have to some extent in the past in the military and having had to turn out numerous times in Big Bear. (And if you've never fought a ship fire while 3k miles away from land you don't know what it's like to fight for your life).
May Steve Sisolak and all you negative people get diagnosed or have a loved one diagnosed with MS and then you can see how evil you really are. These brave firefighters save your asses on a daily basis, and are helping the community. When any of you decide to be brave enough to run into a burning building to save lives then maybe you will earn that much. Seems like all the naysayers are the ones sitting at home all day eating bon bons and watching Jerry Springer. Damn welfare babies! Want to earn that much? Get a job!
cubanky, read my posts then say that to me. I *can* talk, I've done that job and have a job with what most would consider a reasonable salary. I'm not one of your "welfare babies". And I can not stand Springer.
watch out dear firemen...
support for birdie is building...
listen up politicians...
it is very very simple...
grow a spine like steve sisolak...
and you win...
in a landslide...
go steve go!!!
Sisolack these Firefighters risk their life everyday to protect to you. Hold on Sisolack you have been going after the firefighters since day one I think you may be jealous because you didn't because they would not loser like your self into the fire academy. To all those people complaining ask where is their hand out "hey get a job" you are not entitled to anything this America last time i looked. If your salary and complaining: that is the choice you made their are plenty of jobs in this town which are 40 hours week and pay well. To all those people bashing the Firefighters get your facts straight. And to all the people being negative towards the MDA you are just hurting the children and the families. I hope you can sleep well at night.
hey hl9000...
hey tundra...
why don't you two tell us where you are stationed???
maybe me and my las vegas sun buddies will swing by for a little protest...
maybe we can get the media to come along...
now that would be fun...
maybe me and tundra can have that serious one on one eye to eye time i believe he mentioned before...
now that would really be fun...
what do you say skippies???
I don't mind that the firefighters are collecting money for a charity while they're on the clock, but why just MDA ? it's the only one they collect for. If they have enough time to collect for one, they have enough time to collect for other charities as well. At least they're not in the intersections all over town like they used to be, I found that annoying and a distraction to drivers. And since Jerry Lewis gets a % of the take on the national level I won't give em a dime.
All I know is I laughed y a** off when this dippy lady was so proud of them for shoveling sand and dirt on diesel from a leaking truck to keep us safe she called the radio station to say how grateful she was for them keeping us safe.
Boftx" What's the percentage of calls I run where a life is saved? I could put a guestimate on here but it would be just that. It's under 1%... However, I run hundreds of calls a month and may save a few lives a year. I believe a better question would be" How many lives have you seen saved by the organization you work for due to the training provided, experience achieved, department's response capabilities, professionals you work with, quality of equipment, etc? Many of the lives we are able to save is due to the fire department being on scene quickly and implementing a plan of action rapidly. We are able to achieve this through training, experience, and strategically located fire stations.
I think like you" I believe that your average person would come to the aide of a fellow citizen in their time of need. A matter of fact, I have witnessed this on numerous occasions. Does this mean they would actually have the training or experience to act in the most efficient or effective way where they would be able to save a life and/or not become part of the problem? Probably not" When we get a rookie firefighter it takes years of training and experience before they are fully functional. To expect a layman to act in lieu of a professional I think is impractical. After we take situations over from bystanders they are usually extremely grateful to see us and complimentary of our actions.
To not include EMS calls isn't practical either. Even when we drag a person out of a burning building that is only half the battle. We still provide EMS and transport to the hospital. I know people would like to believe the private ambulance could save lives equally as the Fire Department. That isn't accurate either. In the valley where fire departments transport, statistically speaking, cardiac arrest patients survive 2 times as often where the fire department transports. When you have a heart attack you best have it in the City or Henderson" These are the facts.
Is overtime out of control? Absolutely" However, this is due to the way your representatives staff the department. Not our compensation" not our choice. We are encouraged to work overtime due to the fact that they say it saves the taxpayers money. Not our choices" theirs" Are there people milking the system? For sure" However, they're the minority. Don't judge us all on the actions of a few. The system was established for good intentions and a few bad people take advantage of it. Unfortunately, it makes us all look bad.
And now you see the problem, fedup2here. What if they were collecting for say Planned Parenthood?
Construction workers, convenience store clerks, cab drivers, cocktail waitresses, have died more than firefighters. Not that dangerous of a job.
mach1, I have a very simple question for you. If you were to work on a straight salary, no overtime, how much do you think your job is worth, gross pay?
Firefighters / Paramedics love "lights and sirens"..it's the reason they got into the job. If your house is on fire, THEY LOVE IT! It's their job. I'm sure loss of life isn't what they want but they want that "call". They want that alarm to sound in the station. They're just like cops who love the downtown beat..well actually here it's probably the SW beat. But they love the emergency calls they go on, that's why they joined, not because they want to just sit around and answer breaking and entering calls or false alarm calls.
This is a request to the supposedly hardworking FF: Please write down the ACTUAL work you do in one pay period and then compare it to what you got paid. I think you will understand more how actually overpaid you guys are and might even admit that most of your critics are right. PS: Don't include shopping, internet surfing, etc. just actual work.
Boy, everyone has so convoluted the water here.
The issue is the fund raising on duty. Which also means many of those firefighters are earning OT while doing it.
This is not just a firefighter issue in the County
All other county employees fund raise too. Go to their office building during a fundraiser and you will see them on work hours cooking food and selling raffles for charities and getting paid to do it.
Private employees have to fund raise on their FREE TIME. This is doing charity walks on weekends, United Way, etc.
The basic premise is fund raise off work hours.
Hey Birdie,
Montevista Hospital........
MAIO'S.....................
End of Story...............
Your Friend; $kip$ter......
Again, if the FF decided to fund raise for Planned Parenthood I bet that many of the supporters would be rasing hell over it, even if the FF did it own their own time but were wearing their equipment.
@ Tundra..
"Montevista"....???
Did you mean Mount Vista Hosptial on E. Lake Mead?
Boftx... 50-85k, depending on rank, experience, etc... Oh, yeah... That is what we get paid.
No, Montevista Hosp. The mentally ill are transported to this location.
I would agree with you mach1, if that were in fact what you get paid. But there are a few reports showing you get a packagte worth $181k. remember, I said on STRAIGHT salary, no OT. I would be ok with you getting $75k/yr, tops gross pay. But I wouold also want the retirement stuff out in the open, too.
Hey Birdie, Im not gonna give you my work address, just like you wouldnt give me yours if I asked.
After reading some of your posts from various other articles on this paper, I got one thing to say, GET SOME HELP. You are one angry person! I mean its good that you dont keep things boggled up, but sit back, take a deep breath and smile :)
I am sure myself and Tundra would be happy to have a Beer Summit with you for a friendly debate.
I am not sure it would do any good after reading some of your responses though, there are things that are not penetrable, I think your head just might be one of those things...
boftx, you know those figures are implementing total compensation. I am not sure what you do? But take your salary, add in what medical your company pays or doesnt, add in retirement 401K or whatever, overtime, Uniform allowances, Ect.
They are inflating the numbers to seem like we are taking home this kind of money. I bet even a worker at In & Out Burger is pulling 35-45K (a guess of course) if you take into account all these factors...
To HL9000, Montevista is on the NASDAQ (PSYS) "common stock".. it closed @ $29.84/ share today. Down a bit, but with people like the "Birdie" I am going to purchase about 1000 shares ASAP.. Beer to ya!...
What is wrong with people... firefighters have a respectable profession where they help people and save lives... so what if they are well paid, what's wrong with that? Why be jealous? They (firefighters) pay the same taxes we all do so in esscence they pay their own salaries. I lived for many years in a small town in Florida where the firefighters made good money and rarely had fires but was highly respected by the community. Seems to me many people in Vegas don't like the police or firefighters and yet we have so much crime here...
HL, I gave my income figures a few posts ago here in response to a challenge, including total package worth, along with my occupation.
I am saying that I would not argue against you getting a FLAT gross salary of $75k/yr (including medical benefits) for an experienced FF (5yrs or more), with retirement comparable to the private sector. But you do not get a flat salary, you get OT. That is what allows the sick-pay scams and other abuses.
The $181k/yr package value comes from the county itself, it's hard to argue with that.
The Firefighters seem to be a popular target lately. Crying that they are "on the clock" when they are supporting the MDA with the boot drive is really lame and a cheap shot.
"They should be at the station watching TV while they wait for YOU WHINERS to call for help when you need them, not standing in out the elements collecting for a reputable charity once a year." I will bet the statistics will show "no impact" on the time it takes to respond to calls while "holding the boot".
Next thing you know we will take the beds out from the stations because they dare to sleep during a 24hr shift.
We don't pay them by the hour, we pay them for what they DO, if it's such an easy profession then become a fireman.
I love the fact that Sisolak keeps making these fireman look like total money hungry whores. If you look at it, all he does is ask simply questions like, "Why are they needing more money if they are doing so called charity on the public's dime?" Sisolak is doing honorable work look at the problems that countries like Greece has. Look at how bad our next door neighbors in California are financially. Public pensions are way overcompensated it needs to end or curtail greatly for states to work efficently. Great Work.
All of you commenting about this practice of collecting money for charity are the biggest bunch of idiots i have ever read, being led by the biggest one of all Steve Sisolak. Please DON'T GIVE TO ANY CHARITY because the employees at those charities all work for free. DUH you people are so stupid. Wake Up stop being such haters to the fire departments, because if it wasn't for stupid people like you, the firefighters wouldn't have much to do. You are job security to them.
Two thumbs down for the firefighters/grocery shopping fire truck washers getting paid $100 per hour to hold a boot & ask the working class general public for donations..
The Fonz will be telling them to sit on it!
The boot drive is a completely separate issue from the pay issue. The drive has raised millions and that is wonderful. But the fact is, in today's world, we don't need a boot drive anymore. People can donate in other ways.
To Birdie, Getalife, Firemanfred, Unsilent majority, cwcommish, boftx:
You guys at it again? Every single article? You guys would be bitching about something in Heaven if you were there?
What's the point of trying to defend yourselves? Damned if you do and damned if you don't...until someone is in need.
They are overpaid and abuse the OT system. End of story.
I saw this article about fire trucks being "browned out" in San Diego. Do they do that in LV? And what does "browned out" mean exactly?
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?sectio...
My brother runs a 4ton hammer forge risking his life 10 hours a day,5 days a week.They have 2 15 minute breaks and they sell each other charity candy bars and other charity things.He leaves covered in SH and sweat and thinks he has a good job.God bless America!
hey hl9000...
hey tundra...
i knew you blowhards wouldn't tell us where you work...
damn...
i thought for sure we had a made for tv moment...
and perhaps i could launch my political career...
oh well...
hey politicians...
feel free to steal birdie's idea...
become a one issue candidate...
run on the platform that you will fire all the politicians...
and hire new ones at a fair salary of no more than $75,000...
bingo...
you win...
in a landslide!!!
hey joe schoenmann...
keep shining the spotlight on this issue...
it clearly is a hot button...
keep following the politicians...
let us know which ones went to bat for the tax payers...
and especially let us know which ones didn't...
those that didn't will have their political careers cut short...
and you never know...
there just might be a ground swell...
and a certain birdie may just have to run...
hee hee hee...
please note...
in my post above...
strike "fire all the politicians"...
and replace with "fire all the firemen"...
although...
the former clearly has some appeal too!!!
I bet more money is spent on Firefighter salaries while they collect donations than what money is collected.
All the ff wives sleeping in this morning?
To Birdie; I will always be your Huckleberry.. (P.S. The PC term would be "firefighters" not "firemen").. Good luck in your campaign.
Your best buddy, $kip$ter....
Many companies not only encourage, but require community service work. Safeplace at Terrible Herbst comes to mind. Even minimum wage employees are trained on how to give back. Some fire fighters also go into schools and teach burn prevention (drop and roll) and police teach drug resistance (DARE) on the clock. Are these not services that your own children have benefited from? Giving back strengthens communities. Even the Las Vegas Sun has philanthropic partnerships with governmental entities. This article was full of broad spectrum double standards.
Joe, you failed to mention the amount of overtime the firefighters were being paid by each jurisdiction. Will you be doing a follow-up story? And for the Editor who allowed this specious article to be printed to begin with--- now that you have identified this serious community problem (and no grandstanding has taken place here) will the Sun be keeping us informed on the steps that the county has taken for resolution? The families of the disabled, the MDA folks (and a lot of others) may be curious as to how the county will now correct this outrageous act of tax dollar abuse.
I for one, will proudly give my pocket change to my neighborhood firefighters today. As many parents will be sending their disabled children off to school, under emotional challenges that none of us could really understand unless we had to live it day in and day out--- I won't think about whether the fireman is on or off duty. I will simply smile and say a silent prayer for the man in uniform who raises that boot to my car window on behalf of the child who couldn't do it for himself.
Lets see: Lets bash on duty firefighters for collecting for a worthwhile charity. They respond to calls just as if they were @ the Station. The boot drive was started here by CCFD, two of its members were diagnosed with MD, their co-workers started the boot drive as a show of support for them, and to help both the National, and local MD associations. It is NOT ironic(as the author states) that they died from this disease. A Callous Statement @ the very least. One of the Gentlemen that perished from this disease has a Son on the FD, he is a 30 year Veteran, and is now suffering the begginings of what may ultimately challenge his Life Expectancy also. Lets turn out backs on the good that the FD has done for Muscular Distrophy, lets lament the FF for collecting while they are @ work. When they were allowed in the Streets to Collect, the annual average collected was over $400,00.00, for THIS community. A North Las Vegas FF was runover, and almost killed several years ago. That changed WHERE they are allowed to collect. We'll show them eh? Lets stop what they do, Lets take $200K out of this Charities Accounts, lets keep slamming them, after all...what do they do anyway, right? The FF Unions will make concessions as needed to balance Dept Budgets, and keep their guys/gals from being laid off. The Rant from the 15-20 continuous posters on this site, and their lack of decency, show a "Tea Party" flavor....all ticked off @ anyone better off than they are, doing WHAT they do best..Rant...Rave...Attack..keep posting the same thing over and over, like a child. Call people names...like a child. Look in the Mirror..of course not..you've tried that before, and it WAS painful wasn't it?
I have yet to read a single response to my question of "How would you feel if the FD were using public resources to collect for Planned Parenthood?"
That is, after all, the actual issue in play here.
At the risk of being redundant, if my tax dollars are paying firefighters to collect for charity while on the clock, I should have some input into what charities are being helped. Nothing against MDA, but there are a lot of local charities that could use some help. Either that or collect on your off time.
hey hl9000...
hey tundra...
you guys always talk about how brave you are...
and yet...
you refuse to tell us what station you work out of...
hmmm...
doesn't make any sense to me...
bottom line...
no fireman should make $181,259...
ever...
period...
end of story...
and that's the damn average...
this is wrong...
this will destroy this community...
this must be stopped...
stat...
go steve go!!!
boftx:
Since you want an answer , her is mine: I don't want anybody doing fundraising for anybody while being paid big bucks with my tax money. If anybody wants to do fundraising, they do it on their own time.
I'm still waiting one of those who support the practice to respond.
http://www.mda.org/clinics/camp/
Doing something charitable is just that. It should not be on the clock. If you are working to raise, then that defeats the purpose right? I also agree that their salary within that time frame holding a boot is more than what is actually raised.
One part of me says this is stealing from the taxpayers on this subject, the other says ok this is good because they donate their time to raise while on down time. Maybe they should HAVE to do something like this on their down time.
Everything about being heros and all that fun stuff is a farce. Thats their job. No different than police officers, doctors, the guy who holds the crosswalk sign while your children cross the street or the 7-11 store clerk.
OK LET ME SET THE BOOKS STRAIGHT AND PEOPLE THE FIREMEN GET NO CUT OR MONEY FROM FILL THE BOOT TRUST ME I KNOW SECOND THING STEVE S HAS HARMED OUR TOWN LONG ENOUGH HE WONT ANSWER CALLS OR EMAILS I TRYED WE WANT TO LISTEN TO HIM AND THIRD THE STUPID PEOPLE ON HERE WERE THERE OFF COMMENTS ABOUT THE FIRE DEPT IF YOUR HOUSE WAS BURNING YOU CALL 911 AKA FIRE DEPT OR YOUR CHILD HURT SAME THING SO GIVE THE FIREMAN A BREAK THEY COLLECT OF THERE OWN FREE WILL AND ACCORD FOR A GOOD CAUSE 'MDA'........
Let me see if I got this right.
While waiting for a call, firemen, for the most part, are doing nothing but waiting.
So, while they have this "down" time, they are involved in the boot drive. The rationale being that if they are basically idle, they might as well be doing something productive. Therefore, let them work the boot drives and if a call comes in, they can respond from that location rather than the fire station.
To me, that's a separate issue from pay and benefits. Don't mix them up. It may be better to have them doing something (boot drive) than something minimally productive or in some cases busy work.
But that raises the question about other charities... If this labor pool is available for charity work, how about volunteer work with the little league or a soup kitchen or Boys and Girls Clubs or American Cancer Society or some kind of drug rehab volunteer program. My point is that if you do it for one charitable organization you better be prepared to do it for all.
After all, its public money that is paying for the labor and just because the firemen may feel a special "affinity" for MDA doesn't make it right to utilize public resources for that group anymore so than any other group.
Firemen need to stick to being firemen while on County time. If they want to volunteer on their time, that's something different.
I wonder how many would volunteer if they weren't being paid?
Steve Sisolak bilks the county out of 16 Million Dollars and says the Fire Department makes too much?? WTF?
McCarran and the county lost a suit brought by Steve Sisolak, who claimed various height-restriction ordinances issued by the county limited the development of his 10 vacant acres and impeded his ability to sell the land.In addition to challenging the height restrictions, Sisolak said low and frequent flights over his land from McCarran devalued the property by subjecting it to noise, dust and fumes, which constituted a compensable taking.A state court jury awarded him $6.5 million for inverse condemnation, and the trial court added costs, attorney fees and interest, bringing the total award to more than $16.6 million.
Chris G. is correct. There is nothing wrong with what the firefighters are doing. They could be watching ESPN at the station while waiting for their next call. This is public service and to attempt to make this good act into a bad thing is a reflection of sadistic character on the part of Mr. Sisolak. This little tantrum will appeal to those who thrive on cruelty and no doubt there is a vocal population and base for that tactic. This stance is a cowardly and pathetic attempt to gain attention. To say the least it is the very opposite of public service and the inverse of heroism.
bradgore, i am a bit surprised you are okay with this. To me, the issue is who picks what charities they will support with public resources? What if they choose to support one that I don't want my money going to?
By allowing them to support even one, then ALL charities can demand that they support them, too. That is grossly unfair to the taxpayers.
The only legitimate stance is to say NO public employee can support any charity using public resources in any manner.
Any personal attacks on Sisolak are just an attempt to distract from the issues at hand. It happens to be he is right on this matter, and is showing a great deal of strength by questioning these things. Anyone with common sense can see that what these guys make is out of whack.
The point most seem to be missing though, is either figure out a way to void the contracts, and start over.
Or, hire more of these guys. More hires means more jobs (benefits overall economy), less o/t, and the ability to change schedules so they work a normal shift. Also, addressing the ability to game the system and get more OT.
Nobody would say a word if the ff gross pay was $75k per year, which is perfectly reasonable.
Then what happens on their down-time would not be as much of an issue.
Hey Birdie; First you need to go back on your meds. Second, I do think you are a complete whack job. Finally, Don't you know when you are being played like a complete fool. Get job, get a puppy and most of all get a life.
End of story........
Your best buddy; $kip$ter...
boftx: I understand your point of view. However we all have our different priorities. I put the patients with suffering disease at the top of the list. I have been a researcher all my life and watched fat cats like Mr. Sisolak radically change their fiscal tune on their deathbeds. I choose to serve humanity via science. Believe me the pay is not good and the hours are long. What I know from looking into the eyes of hundreds of people old and young on their deathbeds while on a last ditch Phase 1 trial is exactly what real problems are. So to Mr. Sisolak this is a problem. To me it is not. I will fight in the war on disease any day. No one who has not worked in scientific research is cabable of any argument here toward my view. In fact I am more than happy to throw logic out the window on this issue and don boxing gloves at the gym for a "discussion" with anyone wishing to detract from society contributing to the war on disease.
I have $5 on bradgore against boftx inside the boxing ring.
"In fact I am more than happy to throw logic out the window on this issue and don boxing gloves at the gym for a "discussion" with anyone wishing to detract from society contributing to the war on disease."
I agree. However, the firefighters are not "contributing". They are collecting for their sweetheart charity on my dime.
That would be a good bet, I have stated elsewhere I am 56 and have had a few heart-attacks in the last 5 years.
Bradgore, I think that you are advocating the ultimate "ends justify the means" argument on this. We are coming from two different viewpoints and apparently must agree to disagree since you are willing to throw logic away.
Boftx: Suffice it to say life is a battleground. Those of us wishing to fight the good fight will just have to accept what we already know: We are on our own. If some bully public official wants to thwart a good thing they will. What the bully can not quench is the drive to help humanity. Mr. Bill Gates will donate almost 800 million in 2010 for the cause of disease research with global ramifications. Mr. Steve Sisolak will go on record in April of 2010 in his fifedom of Las Vegas with efforts to stop local firefighters from working their traditional logistics of their MD boot drive. We all have our priorities.
tundra tundra tundra...
listen up skippy...
you aren't as clever as you think...
better look up that word huckleberry...
hee hee hee...
some of the interpretations of that word are not very flattering...
for you...
hee hee hee...
but then again...
no one ever accussed firemen of being the sharpest tacks in the box...
despite what some here would have you believe...
but i must say...
when i think of you skippy...
the word huckleberry does not come to mind immediately...
rather...
the word that does pop into my head quickly is...
dingleberry...
hee hee hee...
Tundra, HL9000,
It seems you two are the spokespeople for firefighters because as you've stated in your comments yours is the only way to get the other side of the story. Yet the reporter has written in his comments if any firefighter wanted to tell his side please contact him as so far no one would return calls. Now that would make for some good reading. No unions, just plainspeak for once.
bradgore wrote:
"...efforts to stop local firefighters from working their traditional logistics of their MD boot drive.
You know what is even a MORE traditional logistic of a charity drive? Giving of your time or sevices without expecting to get compensated for it. Next year make the boot drive an off the clock voluntary program only and let's see how magnaminous the firefighters are. Until then, don't criticize we taxpayers who demand a more fair and even distribution of our money in fundraising activities.
labdaddy, NO public employee should ever be engaged in fundraising in any manner that uses public resources, period. That includes the use of boots or trucks or anything else that implies that the cause is officially endorsed by the public.
Off the clock is fine, but that means out of uniform as well. Otherwise you open the door to every charity demanding equal time, and rightfully so.
Yeah.... I think everyone that Works at Chili's and Fridays should be fired too. They collect money for those shamrocks they hang up to help kids too every year around St. Patty's day WHILE THEY ARE WORKING. HOW DARE THEY!!! I had to wait and extra 30 seconds for my Caesar salad because of it.
Chili's and Friday's employees aren't paid with tax dollars.
htotheb, I said PUBLIC employee, as in taxpayer funded.
Private companies can do whatever they wish. If they support something I disagree with I can take my bussiness elsewhere, which in fact my wife and I do regularly.
To Birdie, Like I said, I'll be your Huckleberry. Not the sharpest tack?. 250,000/ yr. not bad for a "Huckleberry"..
Your Bestest Buddy, The $kip$ter...
No wonder they have to pay overtime!! These leeches are standing in front of grocery stores probably on OT!! I can see why they have smiles on their faces. I say everyone boycott these jokers and when the telethon comes on TV make your donation directly to them and tell them you don't appreciate boot holding Firemen collecting money on the taxpayers dime and that if they want to see another penny from you that the MDA make it a policy that Firemen are to only do this boot thing on their own time without fire trucks in sight so that we know they are there on their own time!!
This debate is about whether or not FF's should be collecting for MDA on duty. The actual Story here is that Steve Sisolak and Reporter "Joe", are on a Mission to promote themselves for future Political Ambitions, and to sell Newspapers. There is no benefit to contacting Joe S., to "tell" him there side of the story. Letters from MDA complimenting Local FD's longtime involvement will go unpublished. In the past two weeks, FF's have Rescued 2 LV Citizens from Structure Fires, directly saving their Lives. These stories have gone unpublished. Now Christmas donations to needy familys are under scrutiny. If Mr. Sisolak is so concerned, why sign off on the authorization on this years Boot Drive....Easy...No one in this forum will question him because He is their "Hero". One questions why they don't give to Planned Parenthood. Absolutely unrelated, and a slimmy attempt to obsure what is really happening. Monies are being collected to help a legitimate Charity. Period. If you are chapped that FF's are making too much Money, so be it. Call, or go see your Commissioner, ask him why FD's in this Valley are understaffed. The personnel levels required on a daily basis to provide "YOU" Fire Protection, and Emergency Medical Services are definate. A Set Number of Bodies per Shift. Ask your Commissioner some questions, like this one: Why has Clark Co. Fire Deptartment only approved 18 new hires per Year for the past 20+ years? Why? They have built a Station a Year for almost 15 Years, with this expansion, and Retirement losses, it is easy to understand why CCFD runs @ approx 70% of minimum manning requirements. Ask them "how" to solve the High Costs of Overtime. Ask them if hiring new FF's will lower the Counties Wage Burden. Ask them. This entire Community has approx 50% of FF's per/1000 people as compared to other Metropolitan Areas. Is this OK? Are the Citizens of this Community getting a good deal for their dollar? YES. Are they pissed about FF's making too much Money...YES. Ask your elected officials some questions. Of Course Not, much easier to Rant, and Rave on this pathetic papers blog. Makes some feel better, doesn't do much. E-mail is easy. Catchy, Macho names like a group of High School Kids. Take the FF's off of the Boot Drive, penalize sick people in need of help...Because it fits your demeanor, your view of your own Life. Misery really does love company.....Come on Bro, give me a hug.
Nobody wants to take FF's off the boot drive. Just off the clock while they're collecting. Let them do it on their own time, drive to their collection site in their own vehicles, wear civilian clothes, etc. You know...like people who really care about a cause do all year long.
Labdaddy: Most gov. agencies here as well as nationwide run a United Way fundraising program. The government workers are FREE to do this at their work. Other workers are FREE to give as they choose. Being a government worker does not mean you abrogate your freedom.
"The government workers are FREE to do this at their work. Other workers are FREE to give as they choose."
There's the solution...put the boots out in the firehouse and let the FF's fill them. I have no objection to this.
Glad to hear you say that. Now consider that for a firefighter the firetruck is sort of a mobile office and the landscape of the city is sort of the workplace.
And you're sort of grasping at straws. This taxpayer rejects your "sort ofs".
This taxpayer fully supports our firefighters and thanks them for the decades of efforts to help in the battle to cure MS.
From a scientific perspective basic MS research will apply to a variety of diseases with other names. It all comes down to cell and molecular biology progress. We all benefit.
ladies and gentlemen...
look at the arrogance of our friend tundra...
wake the children...
tell the neighbors...
scream it from your front porch...
these firemen must be brought down a peg or two...
bottom line...
no firemen should make more than $75,000...
ever...
period...
end of story...
nighty night dingleberry...
To Birdie; I guess I got the rise out of you I was looking for. You are so easy.. This subject is getting boring... I will look for you on the next BS Sun story..
So my litle birdie "Age Quod Agis"...
Your biggest fan and buddy; $kipperdoodle..
( P.S. I will gone for few days, as I will be skiing Targhee. The Tetons are beautiful this time of year. Thinking of you on the slopes :)..)
Boftx, labdaddy: Do know I respect and understand your opinions. Sure we differ but I am very glad both of you write here. I thank both of you for your intelligent discourse, feedback, and interesting contributions. As for the boxing thing boftx mabey we can substitute a beer drinking contest some day.
I should also mention for the record that I do not know anything at all about Mr. Sisolak. My harsh words are based on the feelings and experience I have with the brutality of disease and total frustration upon reading this piece being unable to comprehend his desire to score political points at the expense of those so unfortunate. I guess the lesson is that there is no limit on the stooping depth for politics. I get it now.
Cheers mates and g'day.
Make that a Scotch and/or Jack drinking contest and you're on, Brad. :) (loser pays for the booze and BBQ afterwards)
Brad, I would wager that you, like I, subscribe to the accepted view of evolution. When looking at nature one can easily draw the conclusion that in evolutionary terms the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. (And no, I DON'T want to get into a Star Trek discussion here). One can also say the same of human society even when looking at the smallest unit, the family.
But there is a crucial difference that should be recognized between what is seen in nature versus what is meant when that phrase is applied humanity.
In nature, it generally means that the needs of the species survival outweighs the needs of any individual member of that species. In humanity, many take it to mean that humanity as a whole should enjoy the same quality of life as any given individual. I submit for your consideration that ensuring survival of the maximum number of humans is in fact contrary to the best interests of the species as a whole.
(And if THAT can't start a hell of a philosophical debate I don't know what can).
For those who wondering what my previous post has to do with this article I am merely expanding upon Brad's belief that Sisolak is a SOB for putting his political desires above the welfare of other humans. (Brad, I hope you don't mind my paraphrasing you).
Maybe ya'll shoulda become fire fighters. Nearly every comment on here reeks of self-loathing and bitter jealousy because you have a crappy job and a miserable existence, while other folks are getting paid more to do an exciting job that actually helps the public. In other words, don't hate what you wish you could have been.... Hate yourselves for the failures that you are.
Cheers.
Its actually scary how entitled these so called public servants feel they are entitled, and how they talk to us, who they are suppose to serve. Hopefully the State will go so broke, they will grow a set and fire them all and start over.
I might also add, there is a way to fire them all if the county/ city wants to. Its called privatization. Lets see someone run on that platform !
botfx: Yes that's a good realm of discussion and ideas. From the get go I will not be able to seperate my species from others. Will engage another time...grass, rabbits, foxes.
I look forward to it. In the meantime, check your email. I welcome a reply.
"to Seaturtlekel:
According to the "revised" Clark County Employee Compensation Overview, dated Feb. 25, 2010, the average compensation packages for county firefighters in 2009, and this includes benefits, was $181,259. The average compensation for a Clark County battalion chief was $288,785."
Holy chit.....$288k a year AVERAGE????????? So half of them are making 400. Somebody needs to blow up this bad joke. Rebuild it from scratch for 20% of the cost.
So jealous? We are all just part of this haternation and we certainly filled up on our hatorade today....or we are sick of seeing what you are paid while we cut police force. Or maybe we don't like it when we lose quality teachers and over work the ones that remain? Maybe one of us has waited in an understaffed DMV line? Many examples that are being cut are services that we need on a weekly basis. You provide this "hero" service that I may need once or twice in my life and beat your chest over it like you are the God himself.
Are you starting to see where we might get just a little angry. Nobody said anything when the times are good...get it while the getting is good! Right now times are not good and FFs are just now being seen for what they really are.
bradgore,
I'm up for the beer drinking contest. botfx...not so sure with the scotch. Had a bad experience with it once (in Scotland of all places) and now I can't get past the smokey bouquet. Now Jack Daniels...that's a distinct possibility! Good day, gentlemen...and you FF's...get to work!
To all of you bashing on the firefighters... let me ask you, do you have muscular dystrophy? do you know someone with muscular dystrophy? didn't think so. I have it and its something that I deal with day to day every single minute of my life. So what if they support the MDA. Every organization has a major company that supports them. The firefighters have been working with the MDA for over 60 years! Its not singling out its just what they started with so why is that so wrong? You guys make these people seem like they are hurting the community rather then helping it. have you ever gone out and done charity work and then see the rewards? these guys not only collect money for the MDA but they also donate a week of thier time to help at a summer camp that is hosted by the MDA every year thanks to these donatations. This week of camp is so important to all of us kids because its the one week that we actually feel normal and the firefighters help make that happen. I cant believe that are so many ignorant people on here to believe that they are "scheming" to make overtime money or that they use their paid vactaion to go to camp. I want all of you that dont agree with them filling the boot to go to an actual MDA function and meet some of us kids and see what we go through on a day to day basis and see how much the firefighters help us not only while on the clock but on thier off time as well. Then tell me that they are these horrid people. Are you gonna go out and raise money for us kids? Are you gonna donate a week of your time to come to camp and help us with ALL of the daily things that we need? Are you going to put on events that brings us all together throughout the year? Im not saying that MDA is the best charity, but when you're affected by MD or know someone that is, you just don't even know how sad it is when people act like this. Would it be different if it was for cancer, or aids, or parkinsons, or any other disease? Think about it we all know someone that is affected by some sort of disease at one point in our life so of course we want thier cause to be supported. As said before the firefighters support the MDA because that is who they started with many many years ago. So why should the MDA loose the biggest support system that we have because you people are upset that they aren't supporting the charity that you want. If its that important to you then go do your own boot drive.
Do any of you people realize Firefighters are paid hourly? So when you see them making over 75,000 a year its because they are practically living at the fire station. Most firefighters start out at like $18 an hour, they just work a lot of hours, a minimum of 56 hours a week. How many people can say you put that much time in at work. Now look at these city officials that make hundreds of thousands of dollars, they work 40 hour work weeks, and if they go over usualy they get comp time. Do the math and figure it out 160,000 a year, 40 hours a week, 2080 hours a year, ends up being about $75 and hour. If Firefighters are getting paid too much its because they work too many hours, and like said earlier, if you want less overtime, hire more firefighters to cover the positions and stations expected to be filled, its that simple. What you'll find out is the city would rather pay over time than pay money to hire and train and pay for insurance for new guys.
Sure they are paid hourly,, but they do nothing for 95% of those hours..
well why don't you suggest going to a volunteer department, they don't get paid hourly, sure it may take 20 minutes before someone gets to you if you are having a heart attack or your house is on fire, but that way you don't have to worry about paying them when they aren't working
and if they are doing nothing 95% of the time how do you explain this?
http://fire.co.clark.nv.us/AlarmOffice/A...
You guys are all right! They should privatize the FD. Then they could make more money because they wouldn't be working for the government. Maybe a few companies could sprout up. There would be competition because it would no longer be a monopoly. Then they could make more money... maybe as much as the rest of you. On a side note... these private companies could strike unlike the fire department. The fire department can NEVER strike. What would happen then? They would be like AMR (private ambulance). They could go to "unable to respond" status because they're saving money, not having as many units available.... by the way AMR almost went on strike this year. This sounds like a great plan. You guys really thought this one through.
Wow! This country and Las Vegas has sunk to a new level! I am sad that so many of you are grossly misinformed of firefighters in general. I blame the media and some ignorance of the public. You all seriously hate the men and women who put their lives at risk to help you? what is wrong with you people? We aren't talking about just any old job, we are talking about people who go into burning buildings, hack open cars, even respond to calls in the middle of the night from people who can't figure out how to replace their own fire detectors batteries!!!! Yes, I'm biased, my own husband is a firefighter. In 10 years, his W2 has never been anywhere close to what you all seem to think firefighters make. He has been gone for many holidays, birthdays, emergencies at home due to working 24-72 hrs at a time. Our 3 boys are at a much higher risk to loose their father to a heart attack and my marriage is at a much higher risk to end in divorce than the average due to him being a firefighter! When he is home he NEVER sleeps through the night because his sleep pattern is so screwed up! Yes, he LOVES his job, and yes he gets paid well, but he doesn't do it for the money. Yes, his check is increased for working overtime, but if overtime is eliminated, the county would have to hire several hundred more firefighters to cover their shifts! If they are short 1 FF they have to shut the entire engine down! So, pay men to work the overtime or hire more FF (that costs more than overtime pay!) or else you could be waiting a VERY long time the next time you have an emergency! I pray that you all never have to call the Fire Department, but if you do, how fast would you like them to arrive?
6boys - well I see that you provide a different point of view and hopefully you and your husband are trying to do something to change our point of view. I am willing to bet that you guys are puppets for the union master as well though. You sit back and watch OT rules being abused and other inappropriate actions!
firethug - u are not needed on medical runs like you try to portray. U obviously know that you are not the only ones called to scene. U are the only ones called to scene that fluff reports and do unnecessary work just to justify your raping of the taxpayers!
Also working a lot of hours is bull. I think they should cut down your shifts so you are actually able to WORK all the hours that you claim. Why not have the fireman start to clean the side of the highways, get rid of graffiti, etc. Let them actually work for all these hours they are claiming they put in. Running to the grocery store, working out, playing cards, SLEEPING, does not count as work! It certainly does make me mad if these inactivities lead to one less policeman on the streets
So Mr. Boftx. I will answer your question. If they were trying to raise money for abortions or planned parenthood they wouldn't be out there to start with. They raise money for a recognized illness. Your argument is without merit.
I still say that Sissyolak is an azz of the highest proportions. We have public servants raising money to help people who wouldn't otherwise get it. Mr. Sissyolak should be focusing on all of these home invasions where if memory serves correctly a Police officer was shot and killed in his own garage. Home invasions are way out of hand.
Focus on the problems that matter Mr. Sissyolak. Focus on something that will benefit the citizens of Las Vegas. You are fighting something that has gone on for many many years and is accepted by rational educated human beings. The rest of you need to get a f'ing life. You bash firefighters but I bet if your house was burning and those same firefighters went into your burning home and rescued your family and dog you would sing a different tune. Yes, they sleep at the fire house but are regularily awakened during the night to go serve the public. Find out how many of those guys actually sleep ALL night.
Again, it is a tough job and the reward is for the risk. You people really need to revisit some of your values and morals.
It makes me sick some of the ignorance that has been shown in this forum. Go hang out at a firehouse for a day and see what these guys do. Sweeping and mopping already clean floors. Washing fire trucks ....fixing hoses....making sure their equipment is in top shape so they can save your lame azzes at a minutes notice...
That's all I have to say for now except for Mr. Sissyolak....to you I say....GET TO WORK AND EARN THE MONEY THE TAX PAYERS ARE PAYING YOU FOR. START BY DOING SOMETHING FOR YOUR CITY. HARRASING FIREFIGHTERS ISN'T YOUR JOB. I'm sure that you will be voted out pretty soon because from what I've read...NO ONE LIKES YOU ANYWAY.
akrowdybuck and all the other FF haters, I'm assuming the only information on firefighters you have received is from our lovely media and from wonderful Mr. Sissyolak! For that I am sorry. I am sorry that you take what is reported at complete face value, as truth. Have you ever needed the firedept?, have you ever seen what these guys do on a daily basis? Yes, they go to the grocery store! I know let's treat FF like criminals, maybe you would be willing to drop off their tray of food at mealtimes? Let's lock them up and or make them work on the side of the freeway!!! REally are you listening to what you are saying? They LIVE at the station? Do you sleep at your job? They spend 1/3 of their time at the station! Are you away from your family that much, saving other people. My husband won't even discuss what he sees on a daily basis because it is very disturbing and he would never want to put that image in my head. Have you ever been first on seen to find a toddler face down in a pool? Have you ever scrapped a child's body off the road that was ejected from a car? Take a moment in their shoes, just for a minute before you judge them. Just like any other industry, their are a few that take advantage of the system, but that is few and far between. You are attacking all firefighters! You don't have any bad seeds in your line of work? No one department or company is perfect! Are you? Thank you so much for adding stress to all of the firefighters who help people like you everyday! Like they weren't stressed enough already!
Oh and one more thing......Today's my birthday and where is my husband? He was up all night responding to calls so instead of spending quality time with me and my boys on his day off and my big day, he's sleeping! I know it's such a cush job!
In this article Steve Sisolak states: "Commissioner Steve Sisolak said he was stunned to learn recently that the donations are collected on the taxpayers' dime." "The practice of allowing firefighters to participate in the "boot drive" on work time has been questioned off and on over the years." "Indeed, Sisolak and the other six commissioners recently signed a proclamation supporting the Muscular Dystrophy Association and the boot drive."
All direct quotes from the article above. So Sisolak did not know that we collect for MDA for the past 50 years or so on duty, but he signed a proclamation supporting it. And the fact that we do collect on duty has been questioned on and off over the years. By who, apparently not by Sisolak. Someone is LYING to us, either Sisolak or the Sun, you decide.
I have donated for years, never dreaming the firemen were on taxpayers' time instead of giving their own time. ABSOLUTELY BAD POLICY IF THIS IS INDEED WHAT IS HAPPENING. I am sure many firemen give freely of their time for many causes and would not accuse them of being selfish in any way. But they should not be using taxpayer paid time any more than any other group of or individual taxpayer paid employees should to raise funds for their own favorite charities.
But if this is indeed an acceptable ethic in the Vegas Valley, it could solve some problems.
Maybe the schoolteachers, custodians, administrators, paraprofessionals, etc, should leave school for a day each week and set up at the school crossings to raise cash to keep the schools running...they could just take all the kids with them and call it a math lesson.
Possibly the police have a favorite charity and could use each traffic stop or crime scene to collect from individuals involved...as long as they are there anyway. It might deter some speeders and others from getting involved at all.
Each government entity would need to decide on the charity favorite though, which might be difficult, knowing how government groups work.
I think too much is being made of "taxpayers time". The taxpayer is not loosing out on anything by us (FF's) collecting for a worthy cause.
Even if we were, (I pay taxes too), I'm so friggin grateful that my kids are not afflicted with a disease, I don't think I would begrudge as sick kid a few dollars of time. In fact, it's really kind of selfish to think a few of each taxpayers pennies may be used to help a good cause, regardless if it's your favorite or not. Look at the alternative, you could keep your pennies and step into a parents shoes that have an afflicted child. What do you think sense?
Does anyone else see a pattern here? Let's take a step back for a minute.
*Firefighters are being burned at the stake and basically blamed for the lack of money and loss of jobs.
-First our politicians (which include The Sun, RJ, and TV News) complain FF's were not making any concessions or taking any cuts.
--So then the truth comes out that we have offered concessions from the beginning.
-Next it is our salaries.
--Then the truth about overtime helped explain some of our salaries.
-Then OT and sick leave abuse.
--It is then explained the politicians asked us to work all the OT so they would not have to hire more FF's, which in turn would cost taxpayers more money.
-Now it is collecting on duty for MDA.
--everyone has their own opinion of that. But in reality it doesn't cost anyone any extra money, and services are not jeopardized.
Yet all along the Mayors baby, a $150,000,000+ City Hall is moving right along under the radar. Even though they don't need one. Metro is having a new building built and that will vacate 300 spaces for people to work in the old City Hall.
It also hasen't been discussed that one of our own City Counselmen voted against the project stating within 5 years the City Hall nut will be coming out of the general fund.
WOW, Oscar really set up a nice smoke screen. Making us argue amongst ourselves all the while he is setting us up for disaster, although he won't be here anymore.
Interesting don't you think? Again, just my opinion.
MarketYou,
That is a statement by someone who has jumped on the bandwagon and doesn't know why. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. I honestly believe you would open your mind more if you took the time to investigate BOTH sides of the story. You don't get that from the press only. Stop by a fire station and talk with the company officer, they will be happy to invite you in and discuss your concerns. I can't say you will think differently, but at least you will be fully informed.