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Thursday, April 23, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Sun Archives
- It pays EMTs to do I's and cross T's (4-22-2009)
- No concessions yet from firefighters (4-12-2009)
County officials hoping to finalize their budget by mid-May are frustrated that they aren’t even close to getting concessions from the firefighters union to help curtail a $114 million shortfall.
Administrators are still shaking their heads over the 10-page March 27 letter they received from Ryan Beaman, president of the county firefighters union, which has about 770 members.
Beaman’s position, which some county officials have called “arrogant,” is summed up in the second sentence: “We are happy to report that the financial health of the County is not as bleak as you have been led to believe.”
Beaman then suggested numerous possible areas for cuts — both in the department and in the county’s overall budget — including travel expenses, money for dinners and gala events, consultant fees, management, conferences, memberships and subscriptions.
Beaman did not offer firefighter concessions, but listed other sacrifices the department could make.
Cutting memberships in various organizations, including the Chamber of Commerce, would save a little money but “sends a message to departments that non-customer driven expenses are no longer allowable.” Cutting fire department memberships would save $32,757, he added.
Talking about cutting travel fees, Beaman said he was “alarmed to see the fire department pay for registration fees and lodging for non-employees.”
Beaman also suggested the county scrutinize whether administrators, including the fire chief and all his deputies and assistants, are using their take-home vehicles for personal use. He also criticized the department’s leasing of space for a paramedic school, saying the training had previously taken place at no cost in a fire station.
And the department is overloaded with management, Beaman said.
“I anticipate that you too will be substantially relieved to see the County does not have to ask the working men and women of the County to take extreme steps to limit their pay, reduce staffing levels or otherwise dilute the level of service” they provide, Beaman wrote.
Commissioners this week approved concessions from 9,500 unionized service employees of decreased cost-of-living raises that will save more than $18 million in the coming fiscal year.
But still nothing from the firefighters union, and that has some county officials fed up.
An April 1 letter to Beaman from commission Chairman Rory Reid revealed no such rancor. Reid talked about the county “family” and appealed to firefighters who “care about this community” to assist “in considering alternatives to reducing the county’s financial burden.”
Reid is the good cop.
County Manager Virginia Valentine is the bad cop.
Her April 2 letter is more hard-hitting, less conciliatory and dissects the union letter point by point.
For instance, Valentine replies to Beaman’s critique that the county pays many consultants who “add little, if any, value to the County.” She acknowledged consulting contracts to review Las Vegas Monorail financing, county bond issues and the fiscal effects of policy decisions and legislation. But without commentary, she added that another contract is to assist the fire department “in developing a new fee structure for Fire Prevention.”
In an e-mail, the Sun asked Beaman whether the union would support ending that contract, but Beaman did not reply to that question and several more.
Beaman’s letter noted that the county spends $158,900 for newspaper, periodical and other subscriptions. “In this modern age, hard-copy newspapers are an unnecessary expense,” he added. In total, he counted 28 subscriptions to the Las Vegas Review-Journal at a cost of $6,968 annually.
In reply, Valentine attached a May 2008 memo asking departments to cut unnecessary expenses. She added that as subscriptions expire, renewals will be limited to those that can’t be found online.
Again without commentary, she noted that one of the largest subscriptions is $22,050 to TWL Knowledge Group, “which is for fireman training materials.”
Although calling Beaman’s comments “thorough and thoughtful,” Valentine ripped his analysis of the county’s fiscal health because it used numbers from 2006 to 2008. Those numbers, she said, “are not indicative of the deteriorating financial position of the local economy, and the County, that began in the later part of fiscal year 2008.”
She added that the union’s analysis is “flawed and outdated.”
During a break in Wednesday’s County Commission meeting, Reid would not comment about whether his and Valentine’s written replies have spurred any movement in the talks with the firefighters union.
Then he was asked whether the county might take the same approach as Denver did, when the sheriffs deputies’ union refused to consider concessions to help alleviate that city’s $56 million budget gap.
Denver’s mayor fired 11 deputies, a move that a district court judge upheld. Shortly after, Denver’s police and firefighters unions agreed to concessions.
Could that happen here?
“It would great for me to puff my chest and negotiate in that way, but I don’t think it’s in the public interest,” Reid said. “And I wouldn’t want to because our fire department is already understaffed.”
On a per-capita basis, Clark County still has “fewer firefighters than most places, and that doesn’t even account for the fact that millions come here every year and our firefighters are required to respond to them,” Reid said.
I am not sure about everyone else, but in a state where private companies are laying off and all the other unions, including LVMPD have made concessions, the CCFD has basically just told the County "F*** YOU, we like our $150,000+ salaries that over 500 of our 700 firefighters get and there is nothing you can do about it".
I really admire what firefighters do, but soon I expect them to pull up in Red Ferraris rather than fire trucks. All they have done is look like a bunch of entitled greedy children.
I was in public safety so I have been hit, spit on, had to carry victims, do car accidents, make death notifications etc (all the reasons this group always gives for why they are entitled) and still I have lost all respect for these firefighters.
They know that if layoffs happen in the County it is going to hit the lower paid rank and file that make less that $30,000 a year for the most part and they do not give a c*** about it since it is not their jobs.
Commissioner Reid, I'm just guessing here, but I would bet there are a lot of unemployed people who would love to be firefighters and would do it for A LOT less than the current spoiled group. Here's hoping you can find your manhood and show some real leadership instead of making Virginia Valentine do it for you.
End the contract. Any way possible. Put these guys to work as AT WILL employees and at wages set by the county.
Get rid of the fire department ambulances and let the private operators handle it and look for a private Fire Agency to replace the government employees permanently.
There is no reason a contractor cannot provide Fire Protection.
Well another sector not wanting to comply, UMC is the first.... maybe the commission should take a closer look and say heck with you all and yep I agree let those that unemployed jump in we are certainly able and WILLING.
As a past IAFF Executive Board Member, I left the service after years of service because I wanted to find a job that I was proud of and proud to be affiliated with. What you are reading here seems to be the norm anymore. My local did the same thing, asked for the sky and the stars with a big attitude and of course the feeling of entitlement that seamed to go along with it.
I have also witnessed this type of ideology be the downfall of agencies as well. With the rest of the world having to tighten their budgets and make concessions in order to help all recover, it blows my mind that there are those elitist that feel as if they don't have to.
Take away the personal use of vehicles, take away the unnecessary spending, trim the management overkill and stick to your guns and I believe that the union members will fall in line in order to keep from being laid off, or terminated.
Fight fire with fire, so to speak.
To my union brethren, I have worked with some of you on several occasions and your pompous attitudes is what is turning the public against you, you are your own worst enemy.
Firefighters . . uhg. They work 3 days a week, play basketball and clean their trucks most of that time and make an average of $85K a year (with a large number making over $100K). All in a town with some of the strictest fire codes in the world. On top of that they all have second jobs (insurance, real estate, etc.) because they have the time to do so. They all drive $65,000 trucks, own $500,000 houses. Are you kidding me? Am I mad become I'm jealous, you bet! I actually had to go to school for a long time, my decisions can sometimes be life and death. Not only that but they can be worth hundreds of millions of dollars for my clients. My hourly rate doesn't come close to what a firetruck jockey gets paid. Rediculous! I appreciate the service but they better get a clue. Just because they walk districts for politicians doesn't mean they aren't hurting their public image and that's all they have. Politicians are affraid of not being endorsed by these guys, if they keep getting paid too much, do too little work and keep whining they will find themselves on the other side of the political coin.
I think they should take a pay cut...
I'm just wondering why all the government officials aren't taking a pay cut as well... all the way up to the top officials. If this were done, then maybe others would not mind doing the same... Just a thought..
Can someone tell me what burns and how often. Why don't we just pay for everything that burns in a year instead of having a fire department and their fat budget. I bet we would safe money. ps - I will help put my neighbors house out for free!
Top 10 Deadliest Jobs
1 -- Fishermen
2 -- Timber and Logging workers
3 -- Pilots
4 -- Structural Iron and Steel workers
5 -- Refuse and Recyclable collectors
6 -- Farmer and Ranchers
7 -- Roofers
8 -- Electrical Power Installers and Repair
9 -- Drivers / Route sales and delivery Drivers
10 -- Taxi Drivers and Chauffeurs
How many of these jobs are 6 figures and where are firefighters on this list?
Time for the firefighters to step up to the plate and make concessions like everyone else is. I for one am losing repsect for the organization. Here's a great research tool http://transparentnevada.com/ which wil lshow you the salaries/overtime/benefits of all public employees..including firefighters. Are you kidding me!!! Most of these guy are making the same in overtime as their annual salary!! I work for one of the local governemnt agencies and our union just renegotiated our contract and made concessions. Staff here no longer receives overtime pay and depending on your job classification we will no longer receive comp time either. So, why are the firefighters stil lable to get all these perks when everyone else is making a sacrifice?? Greed is what got our country into this mess and those who continue to be greedy will only add fuel to the fire.
I don't care what profession you are in...no one deserves the amount of overtime these guys are making. A bunch of BS if you ask me.
Linda of Vegas -- excellent point!
All the mayor's posturing lately strikes me as typical for someone whose salary and benefits package are guaranteed against recession. At least for now.
It is time for fire fighters to step up to the plate. At a time where state employees and teachers are facing a 6% pay cut, metro is taking less of a cost of living increase, fire fighters need to share "the pain" as well. They are still scheduled to receive a 3% cost of living increase in July. City, County, State, and public service positions should all share if there a cuts or sacrifices to be made.
Exactly, KillerB....
I don't see Oscar, Jim, nor Harry taking a cut.. Obama neither for that matter. Firefighter, teacher.. whatever... all are being asked to take a cut. Why are these "officials" not setting the trend. I never did like cherrypicking.....
Yah,
These guys are overpaid. There are plenty of qualified people out there who would love to run on a 2 year old child at 2 a.m. who is in cardiac arrest. To take that child to the hospital and attempt to comfort the grieving parents, knowing full well that they will never see their child again. There are plenty of people who would love to have nightmares about that call for the rest of their lives. To be able to cut the lifeless body from a wrecked vehicle as the other drunk driver walks away unscathed. To have the ability to never forget the faces of the victims of horrific accidents, there are people lining up to do this. And firefighter/paramedics, they are a dime a dozen right. So why aren't you doing it? Is it the two years of intense schooling? Or the blood, the HIV exposure, Hepatitis exposure, or treating children that are dying in your arms? If you think there is a nursing shortage, check out how many departments across the nation are fighting for paramedics. Oh, but then there is the 18 weeks of the fire academy that you need to make it through. Only after you have made it past several interviews, a physical exam, a pschiatric evaluation, a background check, a firefighter phyical endurance test, and a credit check. No, problem! Why do we need all of that? I would trust someone to come into my house and treat my family even they didn't have any of that!
How are these firefighters making 6 figures? Especially when there base salary is only 65,000. Could it possibly be the overtime they work? The time they dedicate to the citizens and patients. The time they spend away from their families. And as a taxpayer would you rather pay more to see this overtime taken away? Lets say you have to pay an extra 25% to alleviate the overtime. 125,000 to take away 100,000 in OT. Lets not complain when the council comes after more taxes to pay for the additional people to elimate overtime. Can't have it both ways.
Would you complain if you found out that a Mcdonalds or Jack-in-the-box worker was making 6 figures but had to work 80-90 hours per week?
It's easy to comment on much of what you don't understand or don't have the inside scoop on, as with many of the negotiations dealing with the concessions of the local unions are done behind closed doors. I can't say that I either agree or disagree with the fire fighters union stance in this situation without knowing all of the intricacies. However what I do know is that many of you are commenting on the six figure salaries of those individuals in management that are not part of the union or the concessions that the union is being asked to make. Many of you are commenting on something that you only have a part of the information on, such as that basic level fire fighter that did receive a six figure salary last year, but only due to the budget cuts and highering freezes that caused his overtime hours to total more than his normally scheduled hours.
Why don't we first ask the Rory's and his faithful followers managing the Fire Department to step up and be the first to make the concessions, before we ask that low level fire fighter to risk his life without compensating him/her for it.
I agree with the Union. If the County was so worried about money and budget shortfalls then they need to look in their own backyard and make good choices. They've given away $4.6 million on a bid award because they opted to go against the legal advice of their own staff. They're overpaid Commissioners who have no clue about anything in life except for sucking up to big business. When our Commissioners come down to our level and start looking out for us the taxpayer then I could see others taking a pay cut. Until this time occurs. Firefighters don't back down and stick it the county every time you get a chance.
Link to the $4.6 million wasteful spending.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/apr...
I'm generally a supporter of organized labor but this is totally out of whack. According to the report by the LV Chamber of Commerce:
Nevada salaries as a percentage of the national average:
K12 teachers: 93.5%
Higher Ed instructors: 95.3%
Fire Fighters: 155.1%
Guess which two groups are in line for a salary reduction. Guess which group is in line for a raise.
http://www.lvchamber.com/government/FAB-...
The bottom line is...the concessions will be made, the union will have to accept it or someone else will make it for them. Their choice.wait until they go through their books and find all that "WASTE"...the headlines will be BIG and BOLD.
It is so funny to me to read the tremendous amount of unfounded opinions that are out there about firefighters and their salaries. So many of the posts above slander the men and women who work for the CCFD for taking home a annual wage of 100K or more. Most of the people who are making these posts probably enjoy a Monday through Friday job and put in 40 hours per week, equating to 160 hours per month. Did you know firefighters work a minimum of 212 hours per month? Thats a minimum. the FF's taking home 100K/year are working way more than that. Yes, FF's get paid overtime, but frequently that money is paid back by the federal government through grant funding for training, and off-district wildland assignments that are large scale and require a national response to mitigate. This money is reimbursed by the feds as well as the monies to backfill the FF's who go on these fires. Before you throw stones remember a few things... You get to go home to your family every night and see them, FF's don't. You might work upward of 200 hours in a month...maybe, FF's work on average 278 hours per month. Thats an average. many work more than that. Take 100K and divide it by the sum of 278 hoursX12months which is 3336 in a year. That equates to your FF's getting paid 29 dollars per hour. $29.00 per hour??? Thats ludicrous. Did you know FF's in the course of a 20 year career of stress and little sleep will do enough training, classes, and continuing education to equate to 4 masters degrees. You people always gripe about everyones "opinions" of how much FF's make but you never think about what is really going on in the picture. Check the facts folks. teachers (God bless them) are underpaid also, yes. However, they also only work 40 hours per week and take summers off. Comparitively, teachers probably make closer to 36-45 dollars per hour when it's broken down. I've seen so many instances where the people who have never had to depend upon the fire departments TRAINED, CONFIDENT, and PROPERLY STAFFED personnel gripe and moan, and then have an emergency of their own. Your mind will be changed people. it's too easy to pick on the people you think you'll never need. But heres something for you...No matter how much you cut the budget, lay people off, hack salaries, they will still respectfully and sefllessly take amazing care of you when you need them. Thanks for all you do FF's! Give them raises! 29 bucks an hour is nothing.
Factbased info: 4 Masters degrees??? For a job who's entry requirement is a HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA? Ofcourse you have alot of training, because you need ZERO education to get in unless you're trying to get in as a FF/Medic. Sure the numberof hours you're ON is more, but how much of that is down time between calls, or running on people who have no emergency, or worse yet are simply abusing the 911 system, whom you don't transport anyway? Don't paint a picture of 212 hours a month with your nose to the grindstone.
Onebadaxe: Come on, enough with the stories of tradgedy and horror. Med-West and AMR run the SAME calls for a paultry $15/hr, are you telling me that they aren't subject to the same scenes of post-traumatic stressed inducing horror? The same HIV+ patients? LVPMD too? What makes you different? Oh, I get it, the TWO YEARS of intense schooling..lol sure I see it now. $150k is more than alot of Family Practice Physicians, there's ELEVEN years of intense schooling, a HUGE liabilty, typically 100k worth of student loans, 80hr work weeks and.. yeah yeah we've all heard it before. What about the Marine that is getting SHOT at on a regular basis? Who drves a truck down a highway filled with IEDs, and when he's doing CPR its on a buddy that he racked with the night before, or maybe has saved his life on a previous hump. Where's HIS compensation? There is SUCH a shortage of FF? Why is it that every fire test date is FILLED with THOUSANDS of applicants from all over the southwest? AZ/CA/UT/NM they're all here for the same job as you, again THOUSANDS of them. I have spoken to applicants from other states and asked them why they choose to test here, they always tell me this city is among the easiest to be a FF in, and has among the highest average salary..er, I mean the strongest union negotiator in the country.
I wonder what will happen if the county said "All FF will make $75,000/yr", I bet instead of 4000 applicants, they'd only get 3500.