Facebook
Fark
Digg
Reddit
Stumble
Sunday, March 7, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Steve Sisolak
Sun archives
- Commissioner offers pared Metro budget as example for others (2-25-2010)
- Horrible county budget outlook worsens, tough decisions loom (1-20-2010)
- Town hall on budget shows which side is which (1-14-2010)
- Clark County priorities panel meeting in Las Vegas (12-16-2009)
- ‘Longevity pay’ costs millions in county (12-10-2009)
- Firefighters feeling budget backlash (5-28-2009)
- County, fire union break ice with heated words (5-7-2009)
- Firefighters have perks to give back, if they wanted to (4-29-2009)
- Shortfall looms large as fire union holds out (4-23-2009)
- It pays EMTs to do I's and cross T's (4-22-2009)
- No concessions yet from firefighters (4-12-2009)
Clark County’s firefighters call in sick almost twice as often as rank-and-file county employees and at about four times the rate of management.
Those numbers, included in a county compensation study, have one commissioner claiming firefighters are gaming the system in an effort to accrue more overtime. Firefighters who call in sick are replaced by colleagues who are paid overtime.
“They have figured out how to play the system to their benefit and take advantage of every single opportunity in their contract to maximize their pay and minimize the benefit to the taxpayer,” Commissioner Steve Sisolak said.
The president of the firefighters union said the higher use of sick time by the union’s members was “news” to him. “The county has never brought this concern to the union,” said Ryan Beaman, president of Firefighters Local 1908.
Beaman said Fire Chief Steve Smith is responsible for management, supervision and discipline of firefighters. Smith would not comment due to ongoing contract negotiations.
Those talks are likely more contentious than in recent memory as labor has been unwilling to budge and management has little wiggle room because of declining tax revenue. Unlike the county’s other employee unions, firefighters were unable or unwilling last year to offer salary concessions that county commissioners and administrators found acceptable.
Sisolak is the only commissioner to speak openly about what he calls a “broken” payroll system. If some think the system isn’t broken, he said, then there’s either an abuse of the sick-leave policy or genuine health problems within the department.
Overtime is a heated issue for county firefighters, with the employees defending it as the result of the administration’s reluctance to hire enough of them to cover regular shifts. Firefighters work overtime — which is 1 1/2 times normal pay — on shifts that should go to an employee paid a regular hourly rate.
But Sisolak said it appears that a chunk of the department’s overtime costs are the direct result of firefighters taking too much sick leave: the more sick leave, the more other firefighters will be needed to fill in and the more overtime that will be paid.
The average firefighter in fiscal year 2009 was out sick for 9 1/2 shifts. Because firefighters are scheduled to work 10 shifts a month, that equals almost one month of sick leave per year. When combined with time off for vacation, which averages about 13 shifts per firefighter, the average firefighter is off a little more than two months a year.
Consider the case of Battalion Chief Renee Dillingham. She worked about 75 percent of her scheduled 2,912 hours in fiscal 2009. Her sick leave plus vacation totaled 28 shifts, or about three months away from work. So she worked about 2,200 hours.
Firefighter Raises
Viewing video requires the latest version of Adobe's Flash Player
-
Firefighter Raises, Seg. 2
-
Firefighter Raises, Seg. 3
-
Firefighter Raises, Seg. 4
-
Firefighter Raises, Seg. 1
But even after being sick for 382 hours and on vacation for 292 hours, Dillingham managed to pull down an extra 1,199 hours of “callback” pay — overtime pay, plus a contribution to the employee’s retirement fund. Callback pay amounted to about $80,000, almost equal to Dillingham’s $93,144 base salary.
“Someone sick and vacationing so often had enough energy to come back and take on so many extra hours?” Sisolak said sarcastically.
Firefighters have benefitted from the public’s admiration since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, when nearly 3,000 lost their lives at New York City’s World Trade Center. “But it’s not acceptable anymore,” said Sisolak, a commissioner since January 2009.
“Firefighters have become the gold medalists of gaming the system, and it’s gone too far, and it’s gone on for too long,” he said.
Sisolak said it would be very difficult to prove firefighters coordinate taking sick time so their colleagues may earn overtime. But data for individual firehouses raise that specter.
In fiscal year 2009, sick leave and vacation for firefighters throughout the department averaged 484 hours. But the total leave time of firefighters working at McCarran International Airport averaged 876 hours, or some 35 shifts. At 10 shifts per month, that’s about 3 1/2 months.
Meanwhile, the average overtime worked by airport firefighters was 859 hours — almost equal to the number of hours they took off for sick and vacation leave.
The airport firehouse is interesting on another level. The Federal Aviation Administration requires special training to work there, so it is closed to other firefighters without that training.
“Are they sitting around and figuring this stuff out together? I don’t know,” Sisolak said. “But it’s something we should be looking at.”
Other municipalities have struggled with sky-high sick leave among firefighters. “Sick-leave abuse” has become such a problem that addressing it is a part of normal contract negotiations.
In East Jefferson, La., near New Orleans, negotiators in 2009 tussled over the idea of either targeting individuals or creating a blanket policy to get after sick-leave abusers. They settled on a policy requiring firefighters who take sick leave for off-duty injuries lose their scheduled overtime pay before their regular hours are tapped. There is no penalty for firefighters injured on the job.
In Clark County, Sisolak would like to see firefighters work shorter shifts, maybe 12 hours instead of 24. He said he often gets calls from taxpayers who see firefighters driving fire trucks to the gym or to the supermarket.
“If we had them on 8-to-12-hour shifts, then they wouldn’t be sleeping on the job, or going to the gym, and we’d get more work out of them,” he said.
Other commissioners aren’t so sure. Commissioners Tom Collins and Chris Giunchigliani said if a problem exists, it is management’s responsibility to curb it.
“If they really think people are doing this, then they have to address it. And if they don’t address it, then shame on them and shame on us,” Giunchigliani said.
Sisolak disagreed.
“You can’t blame management because they do what we (commissioners) tell them to do,” he said. “If we want to do something about it, if we want to negotiate contracts that don’t allow this to happen, then that’s what we have to tell county management.”
Where is Rory Reid?
If the other commissioners do not do something to put a stop to this nonsense then in my opinion they are as guilty as the firefighters. Collins and Giunchigliani's suggestion that we leave it up to firefighter management to address the overtime problem is unacceptable. The commissioners are now very much aware of the problem and they have the power to solve it, and if they don't then we need to vote them out of office at the earliest opportunity.
On a related note, why don't we just hire more firefighters so there is no overtime? There are so many people unemployed right now that I'm sure we could hire as many people as needed to effectively eliminate all overtime. I'm sure there are thousands of people that would work for a salary of $50k per year and be thrilled with the opportunity to help those in need.
Finally, I am stunned to read that Renee Dillingham used 774 hours of sick and vacation time during 2009 and still earned $173k. I have not used that much sick and vacation time in the last 8 years combined and I only get paid $50k/year. For that amount of compensation, these firefighters owe it to society to run straight into a burning building to save an ex-felon's pet rat.
I added incorrectly, it was only 674 hours of sick and vacation time. That only equates to 7 years of work for me. Sorry Ms. Dillingham.
Throw out the sick leave and go to a total leave package with a cap on the total hours a person can accrue. Convert excess sick hours to retirement credit.
Then look at the management ratio. The FD is management heavy.
Then properly staff the department so you don't pay so much overtime. They don't want to staff properly because it cuts off the gravy train.
Then consider moving them to a 12.5 hour day. No more pay for sleeping. Working out during down time is fine and should be encouraged.
I say its time to privatize the fire department and stop this nonsense. Make them act like any other business. Of course, with all the politics involved, this will never happen.
But, in the meantime, I think that paramedic services could be privatized and taken away from the fire department.
I also think that we all should reduce our dependence on the fire department to reduce its power over us all. That means being more careful and more prepared to help ourselves.
Maybe making sure that there are water hoses and basic firefighting equipment around our houses in addition to being more careful around the kitchen and with smoking.
In addition, we could learn some basic first aid and have first aid supplies at our houses.
The firefighters have gotten all these benefits because we as a group feel we cant live without these people. Thats what needs to change.
The same thing was going on in Escondido Calif. The firefighters voted for the salary cut in favor of keeping overtime. When did salaried employes start getting overtime?
"If they really think people are doing this, then they have to address it. And if they don't address it, then shame on them and shame on us," Giunchigliani said.
Shame on them...shame on us??? Come on. Check on management, they are probably abusing the system themselves. So if the commissioners take the position of "shame on me", who will provide oversight of the fire department?
Where is Reid, Jr?
He help created this mess.
I thought he was suppose to be a "leader".
I guess not.
And he wants to run the state?
OMG!!!!!!
I see him now.
He is hiding under the rocks.
Go get him before he runs away.
your right, there is alot abuse going on. you can't call in sick, but come in for overtime. if you call out during the week, you shouldn't be allowed to come in on your days off to work OT.
money is tight. especially because of how the Bush ran things and the way Clark county and North town have run there budgets into the ground. but its only going to get worse with Obamaism running amuck. Forget that last statement, that was made due to the previous persons attempt to blame Clark County's problems on G.W...... THE PROBLEM IS HERE (LOCAL) and our LOCAL so-called Politicians (lazy Reid) need to get a handle on it.
At least someone in the County is concerned about some of the firefighters salaries. I am pleased to see him take a stand instead of being just another weak kneed politician looking for cover.
When I saw on TV that some firefighter salaries are more than the President and much more than military, I concluded that is just wrong.
I think a job, where your life it on the line at any given time. (Work Related ) not everyday life. people deserve some compensation. Military deserve more then they get. But where does it stop?
If it were county clerks or janitors playing this game, they'd be standing in unemployment lines.
I will go so far as to call this THEFT. I hope there's enough information uncovered for criminal prosecutions.
There are Fire Fighters in the 24 Fitness/Agassi gym in Summerlin most days , they look super healthy to me! Is it any wonder that the gaming companies , the largest employers in Nevada try to avoid union contracts wherever possible? Someone should inflate a giant SHAME ON YOU rat and leave it outside Fire HQ.
They are laughing all the way to the bank! I never thought you entered civil service jobs to get rich, but the firefighters union have taken it to a new level. Either we the people will continue to get fleeced or things need to change.
This state has too much fraud, waste, and abuse due to corrupt elected officials and the "good ole boy" policies used by these corrupt officials. The way to solve this problem with the fireman, and all government workers for that matter, is to do what private industry does. Make the fireman work a full 40 hours a week before they are eligible for OT. Let's say a firefighter took a day off (whether sick leave, vacation, or holiday) on a Tuesday (8 hour shift) and then worked overtime on Wednesday and Thursday (9 hours). The first 8 of those hours would be regular pay (to make up for Tuesday) and the 1 other hour would be OT (unless the fireman took off more sick, vacation, or holiday time for that week then the 1 hour left would revert to regular pay). With the "right to work" law in this state, and with so many unemployed and wanting jobs, this policy should be easy to implement. It should be applied to every state, county, city, etc. job in Nevada. Imagine how much money would be saved if big government handled themselves as well as private industry does. One of these days maybe our elected officials in Nevada will act responsibly and start putting smart policies into effect. If not, elections are in a few short months. Can't wait to vote these idiots out of office. Problem solved.
I've seen these guys at the grocery store, Gym. they usually are with their entire crew, and with there truck , in case they need to respond from where they are at. I guess you can only sweep a floor , wax your truck so many times while your waiting for an emergency call. I don't see the problem , your at your station , the gym, or shopping for food for the station, where does it matter where the response comes from. The problem is the excess overtime, by way of abusing the sick leave.
Commissioner Steve Sisolak: thank you, sir, for having the initiative and courage to publicly speak out against this robbery of the great citizens of Las Vegas. Hopefully the other commissioners will join you and also express their outrage.
just any state and city job my wife is teacher aid she has have to have doctors letter why don't firefighter have to do it
I am thankfull for Mr Sisolak taking a stand on this issue. I do respect what our firefighters do for us but there is a blatant abuse of the compensation structure that does need to be corrected. I agree with many comments posted here such as no overtime until you have worked 40 hours and maximize shifts at 12 hours. Eleven paid and one unpaid for lunch. As far as the fire trucks being driven off hours I am ok with that. These are truly complex/expensive machines that cannot be left sitting for extended periods of time only to find out they wont start when we truly need them for an emergency.
These firefighters and their union are nothing but greedy skanks leaching off of society. Demand that the contract negotiations start over or start laying these punks off now.
What is the cost of driving one of those monsters one mile?
It has to be like $10 a mile or something.
Anybody know.
Why is everyone amazed at this behavior? this not only goes on in county, but in other entities too. Firefighters are not the nice guys everyone thinks they are, they've already proved that with refusing to take small pay cuts and not wanting to help the budget short fall. All other departments have had severe budget cuts to thier departments except the fire dept,this has to change and kudos to the commisioner thats exposing it,although I can't believe Chris G isn't doin anything she's usually a shark when it comes this stuff. Oh boy I wouldn't want one of those vanity plates on my vehicle that brags about being a fireman right about now.
If these firefighters are using the system of calling in sick to create overtime opportunities for themselves and others that sounds illegal. I'm not a lawyer but, are there not collusion laws that would come into play especially when tax payer dollars are involved. If you look up the definition of collusion: "secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose". That is what it sounds like to me. I think Sisolak needs to get the FBI involved. Or, look at their current collective bargaining agreement and see if it can be voided because of how these firefighters are "using" the system.
If they are so sick why not say they can't pass the physical standards and boot them? There are plenty of other qualified people. I think the firefighters are about to knock themselves off that pedestal we built for them.
I don't understand the argument that they "need" to use the fire truck to get to the grocery store, they need to go here and there because they work such long shifts. I don't go to the grocery store every day. I buy stuff ahead of time on MY TIME INSTEAD OF THE TAX PAYER'S TIME, and bring it with me to work. If they are working longer shifts, give them more refridgerators and then they can bring more food! And why pay them to work out? Require them to stay in shape but they can do that on their 20 days off a month or 2 months of vacation/OT. If you work at the pool here in Vegas, part of your job is to look good. They don't pay those people to work out but they sure have to if they want to continue to work a great high paying job.
There was a time GM paid more per vehicle in health care than the cost of the raw steel to make it.
Unions are run by elected employees who are part of the system and the cronyism is by default.
If you claim workers comp - and are not injured, it's fraud and a felony. If you call in sick and are at the sports bar stuffing chicken wings and Sam Adams down your gullet - that is also fraud.
I am reminded of this overtime scandal that occurred in Iraq - Funny how fraud can be REDEFINED when it needs to be - Fraud is fraud is fraud!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...
Somebody has mentioned it before...WE HAVE GOT TO JOIN TOGETHER AND VOTE AGAINST ANYONE THE UNION ENDORSES! We have strength in large numbers too!
First off, the county doesn't want to hire more people. Its CHEAPER to pay overtime. Its simple math. Secondly before we canonize Sisolak here, remember that he SIGNS the contracts with the firemen union. He shoulders much of the blame for this. Remember it at reelection time. I say don't blame the firemen for operating in a system that was set up by the county commission "think tank". I doubt any of us would be different.
"First off, the county doesn't want to hire more people. Its CHEAPER to pay overtime. Its simple math."
That sounds like a good agrument to a bunch of them off.
Just make the rest of them work more OT.
It will save the County money according to vgasbb.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was off-topic.
This is the perfect opportunity for someone to step up to the plate on this issue. Its obvious that firefighters took quick and hard advantage of the goodwill developed towards them after 911. I would suggest, doing as Reagen did. Fire them all. Start lining up potential new fire fighters right now, to step in and replace them. My guess you will retain about 25 % of the existing firemen. This can be done, and the public is behind fixing the firefighter mess. If the current commission will not act, lets have someone run that will, they will get a lot of votes.
I think Chris G is up for re-election, lets get someone to run against her with the main campaign slogan, BUST THE FIREFIGHTERS UNION. I think we can send this rich bi.. packing. Suely the Republican party can take advantage of this debacle.
Virginia Valentine (County Manager) should order Steve Smith (Fire Chief) to stop the Firefighters
from working the system and fleecing the tax payers. And if Steve Smith does not follow the order, then he should lose his job!
This is not rocket science people!
"vgasbb"
You are right, the commissioners sign the contracts, but Sisolak didn't sign one. He has only been there for a year and there have been no contracts negotiated while he was there. We can thank Woodbury, Maxfield, Gates, Kenny, Herrera and the like for those contracts and the mess that we are in. We need to put the blame where it belongs. Both democrats and republicans got us in this mess. You just can't blame the current board that inherited it.
Let's see what kind of deal the county negotiates with this commission. If they continue to give away the store, I agree with you. I for one, hope that they don't.
It's the City Council and County Commission's responsibility to hold their respective Chiefs accountable for what goes on. It appears that this apparent abuse is the direct result of their failure to do so.
Is the LVSun just now reporting all this? Geez, where you been? But, I guess better late then never in the fight against government employee greed.Btw, Sisolak is the only commissioner with a set and he's absolutely right. Either we have firefighters abusing the system or we have a bunch of people in such a sorry state of health that they shouldn't be in this line of work in the first place.
i wonder if our clark county firemen friends are not he undeserving beneficiaries of the heroics displayed in nyc on 9/11...
it is time for that to end...
these clowns need to be read the riot act...
they should make $50k-$75k...
tops...
and oh by the way...
do you think it would be hard to fill a job vacancy there these days...
No raises for firefighters-live with it, deal with it. We have to. So far this year, my husband has lost a $7.50 long distance drive per diem, a raise due last October, a cost of living raise. What he's gained is...a furlough day, 4% pay cut, the likelihood of being forced to work 12 hour shifts instead of 8 hour shifts, and working with people who call in sick at the drop of a hat. I say these union leaders need to grow up and smell the coffee - THERE IS NO MONEY! It's because of the unions that firefighters and police have over-inflated salaries, have lousy work habits, feel we "owe" them more, and none of them are saints. There are many of these "public servants" getting arrested daily for criminal behavior.
So, I say, either bite the bullet and be happy with whatever is offered to you-or quit, move and go get a job somewhere else in some other state. IF they're hiring! To the union leaders and those they represent in all agencies - SHUT UP, DEAL WITH IT, THAT'S LIFE IN THE BIG CITY!
The argument about it costing less to pay overtime is short-sighted when firefighters game the system to up the annual pay of senior ff'ers approaching retirement. That way the higher pre-retirement years wages are used to calculate their retirement pay. The system is being gamed and some short-sighted bean counter at the county can't see it, but the ff'ers have a brotherly code to call in sick/take vacation time, etc. to help senior ffer's.
I'll bet if this study looked at the overtime pay of ff'ers in their final 3 years prior to retirement, there would be an even bigger disparity for Miss G. to hide from.
they could go to a system like we use...Paid time off replaced sick days and vacation. If you want to use a sick day, fine but it subtracts from your overall bank of allowable days off
Firefighters have benefitted from the public's admiration since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, when nearly 3,000 lost their lives at New York City's World Trade Center. "But it's not acceptable anymore," said Sisolak, a commissioner since January 2009.
____________
"Benfitted", more like "exploited".
Very well said WWUNLV!
The president of the firefighters union said the higher use of sick time by the union's members was "news" to him.
------------------------
Well, now you have the news. And all of us will be keeping track.
The idea of moving to a net overtime system someone mentioned above seems like a good idea, but I'm sure they'll find some way to game that too - alternating weeks or months or even years instead of days in a week. Give them PTO instead of separate sick/vacation, and then turning that down to whatever the equivalent of 4 weeks is for them.
At least we don't have to worry about the firefighters ever going on strike.
i hope they go on strike...
then you fire all of them...
i think it would be pretty damn easy to replace the entire department...
don't you...
FIRE THEM ALL!!! I know firefighters, we've had this conversation before, we didn't know it was happening. Right. It's fraud and a slap in the face to the tax payers. We'll rehire people who have some work ethic to replace them. And, firefighters when you apply for your next job, tell them you only take one month off a year in sick pay. How much vacation time do they get on top of that. WHEN DO THEY WORK. "Idle hands are the devils tool". Maybe if they were working they wouldn't attempt to hook up with 14yr olds on the internet. All heros, what a joke.
...one word to describe this self-evident situation...duh...
I don't want them to get a pay cut..I like driving to the back of the firehouses and seeing the waxed 4x4 pick-ups with 33" chromed lift kits on them, which seems like every firefighter likes to own one and their wives usually are driving H3 Hummers. On a serious note, I completely agree to going on a 12 hour shift and going to a "PTO" kind of system instead of sick leave. I disagree with a poster above who said if we threaten to fire them about 25% would stay..I'm guessing that number would actually be 95%...the other 5% would retire.
Some of the management needs to go, but the idea of replacing 75% of the force, that would be stupid. just think of the money it would cost to rehire/retrain 75% of a new work force. the best solution is to revamp the system , new checks and balances
Sisolak seems to be the only commissioner that raises the common sense question: Why is it acceptable for the FF to game the system, steal from other public employees that actually provide an honest day of work (police, teachers, etc ), and steal from the taxpayers?
This appears to be a situation of collusion and fraud. An independent audit needs to be performed immediately, and those gamers need to be fired and have their retirements withdrawn.
But nothing will come of this because the good-ole-boy network is alive and strong in all levels of government, from Clark County, Henderson, Las Vegas, and North Las Vegas. Rory Reid is part of this network at the county level, that's why you won't hear anything from him.
Stop the madness!!!
there is a problem they are playing the system...scheduled overtime is not call back and benefits should not be paid for the scheduled overtime. howwever, i would bet the citiy and the county is paying benefits to pers for that scheduled overtime....
a firefighter works 10 days a month...if this is a fact that they can't work those ten days then maybe they should look for and find employment elsewhere.
a firefighter calls in sick...another firefighter is called in to work at 1 1/2 time the hourly wage for 24 hours.....NICE RACKET!
no wonder their pay is out off control...maybe the voters should be allowed to vote on the reduction of their next contract and bring this madness back to earth...
Sisolak is proud.....
ENDORSEMENTS
Steve Sisolak knows how important his community is-that's why he's been so involved.
Steve Sisolak is proud to receive the endorsements of the following organizations:
Bartenders Union Local 165 and Culinary Union Local 226
CCEA (Clark County Education Association)
Clark County Fire Fighters 1908
Fraternal Order of Police, Las Vegas Lodge 1
IBEW local 357
Las Vegas City Life
Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Managers & Supervisors Association (PMSA)
Las Vegas Sun
Mesquite Daily News
NSEA (Nevada State Education Association)
Plumbers and Pipefitters Local 525
SEIU Local 1107
Southern Nevada Central Labor Council
Southwest Regional Council of Carpeters
Teamsters Local 14
Privatize this business. A real (non-government) employer would get rid of the "cheaters" and replace them with honest workers.
By Journey
March 7, 2010
10:31 a.m
Privatization isn't always the best , private companies will find ways to milk the city for any extra money they can get also...
cheaters are cheaters,,,they are in the goverment service and the private sector
Why aren't locals stepping up and calling, writing, showing up at your local official's offices to protest this outrageous waste of taxpayer money?
If you really want change, then DO something other than writing a comment on a website. I'm sure the ff's are laughing their arses off reading these comments all the while knowing they are untouchable.
It's a racket that Tony Soprano would be proud of. They only hire their "own" too. Who wouldn't run into a burning building for 200k per year?
Those abusing the sick leave are thieves
Steve Sisolak is so correct
Thank you rory! Firefighters love you for giving this to all 700 of them. Must be nice to be a firefighter when there is 13% unemployment in the state. Firefighters calling in sick and making a profit. And you want to be governor rory? thats just what nevada needs another flop in the mansion. What will be next rory? Dog catchers making 300k a year? In my day this was unheard of! I didnt even make that kind of money nor did I call in sick. I founded the USA!
They, too, will be outsourced soon. It's lazy American labor working the system once again courtesy of another union.
Good answer GooGoodolls. Yeah the only thing Nevadans can do is vote no on rory. He is responsible for this. Him and his commission. Nevada can not afford 4 more years of this. This is outrageous and never should have been happening.
If it wasn't for the Mormon "good old boy" brotherhood system, our property taxes would be much lower, and our state sales taxes would be lower. Now it is time to get rid of the Mormon Mafia which include these destinguished members: Harry Reid, Rory Reid, Tom Collins, Bruce Woodbury (already ousted), Walt Ruffles CCSD Gov. Gibbons (Jack Mormon), and all the upper management of the fire department. At least 60 percent of the fire department are Mormon, and that is a low estimate.
The rest of the people have to have two spouses working to support their family while the Mormons milk the system in order that their wives can stay home driving their SUV's carting 4 plus celestrial kingdom bound children around.
The Nveada Power Co., the water district,and building department are all interconncected with the Mormon hierachy. It's a fact. Anyone that says it is not true or that these are just a prejudicial comments is a Mormon covering up this horendous scam by the Mormons.
Privatized the paramedic since most ER response is medical and ambulance services respond faster and cheaper. How many times do they actually fight a fire in a year anyway?
Firefighters/Thieves...It doesn't matter how you milk the system. It's still call STEALING from the public trust. In private industry, you'll be long gone.
We need someone with guts to tell these firefighters they're salary shouldn't exceed $80k.
Take it or leave it. I'm sure 75% of them would stay. There are plenty of people willing to train for less. Remember when Reagan fired all the air traffic controller, and business and commerce depend on them more than us depending on these leeches.
Way to go Steve. Isnt Utah for them? Why have they been controlling your state for so long Nevadans. Send them to Utah! Vote nonpartisan/independent this election day! Send them all packing! Flush the toilet on them once and for all!!
Steven 10 You are 100 percent right.
Firing all firefighters and hiring all new would not save money, it would cost money. The hiring process is expensive and long, takes about a year. Privitization is not the answer as only those with insurance or money would get service. History has proven the private model doesn't work. Scottsdale, AZ has proven this just recently as they have returned to a gov. run F.D. after the private model failed.
Lets not forget that the city council and county commission approved the contracts that dictate sick leave accrual and usage. This is not new to them, they have known this for a long time. They are simply using it now to fuel public hate and discontent, and it's working great.
What I want to know, as a taxpayer, is if salaries are reduced and workers laid off, where will the money go? Will it go back to the public? To schools? To improve roads? Will my taxes go down as there will be less public employees to pay for? No, they will not. Instead I get to pay for a new city hall with a casino in it (are you kidding me???) and a mob museum. The city will lay people off reguardless of what the unions do as they need to maintain their bond rating to move forward with these projects.
Sick leave useage is a small and easily corrected problem that should be handles at the management level. Policies can be put in place to address the issue, and they should. The bigger issue to me is what the government officials really want to do with money saved. I highly doubt it will go back to the taxpayer in any way, shape, or form. Why are taxpayers being forced to fund projects they don't want? All I see on the news is about greedy firefighters......a nice distraction from the real lying and stealing that is going on.
Can you say Union! Again I say that unions are the death to the any place they organize! Public employees should have never been allowed to unionize. Insanity and expensive!
Thank you commissioner Sisolak. Keep up the good work.
A nurse in LA was paid $177K of overtime as a prison nurse and that was on top of her $92K salary! LOL Keep on allowing unions to get away with this and you will soon be in the sahpe California is in!
This situation is fraudulent, and completely unacceptable. There is obviously a lack of leadership in the county commission. For the head of the firefighters union to claim he was unaware of this is unbelievable. We now know how to solve the budge crisis in education! Thank you Steven for altering the public to this criminal practice. What the firefighters have been doing is morally and ethically wrong. This situation must be corrected and soon or the public will be harassing firefighters in the grocery stores and at the gym.
if you try to cut firemen's pay rate you're gonna see a lot of unexplained arson cases.
that's the way it works, folks!
If a firefighter call in for sick leave, then his pay will go the one who works.
Say its not so...Now see what happens when you dont give up a little bit of that compensation... See what being greedy gets you..A lot more BS than what its worth and now your going to lose out now..You fireman have been taking on to much smoke and now the affects are showing...I do say a good scheme to rip off the community but did you think nobody would notice.....LMFAO....
Hey suebee...Isn't the same people involed here in Clark County?
A big "thank you" to Commissioner Sisolak for bringing this to the public's attention. Now if we want to make our voices heard we need to contact those who we elected to speak for us. Please contact them and let them know that this is unacceptable:
Send an email to Commission Chair Rory Reid: ccdistg@co.clark.nv.us
Contact the city of Las Vegas at: http://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/Government...
Another example of the total mismanagement of the money the local government was given. No doubt the ff hours should be increased and pay decreased substantially. Hours up 20% and pay and sick leave down 20% to start!
I've been a firefighter in this community for over 15 years and very proud to serve the people of clark county . I've never made anywhere near 200k in a single year, I've never abuse sick leave, I've never indulged in child porn or any other kind of porn. I've worked my fair share of overtime. I've read and herd most of the stories which are generated by our local media both on TV and in print, only to see that part of the story is being told. It's all very disheartening to say the least, but I want all you naysayers and haters to know one thing.........when you call 911 and need the help of me and my crew.....we'll be there in a timely manner and we'll give 100% of our expertise no questions asked. It doesn't matter if it's 3pm or 3am.......or what your emergency is........you'll be able to count on us. See you soon!
Yeahhhhh Steve10, I couln't have said it better myself,Too bad your comment will be removed by the staff for exposing the mormon mafia. For some reason you can't tell the truth about clark county governments' tie with the momo mafia with out getting your comment removed ,there must be momos on the staff. I got your back on this one ,you told it just like it is.
The entire concept of sick time should be done away with. Anytime you entitle someone to sick time, they will (more often than not) use every hour you give them.
The soultion is so simple. You must work X hours to get your base salary. If you are sick for a week, that's fine - but then you owe back a week's worth of hours which you can make up by covering up for someone who is sick.
That would slash overtime, and also reduce the amount of time people are sick.
Rules and regulations should be put in place to regulate the overtime, vacation time and sick pay.
Problem - Overtime pay and sick pay .
Regulate overtime. No overtime pay will be paid you can accumulate overtime pay and it will be added to the employee's sick pay. Maximum sick pay to be added to any employees sick pay would be 12 Shifts. And no sick pay could be collected for more than 2 concurrent shifts without a doctor's detailed report on the sickness that states the fireman should not return to work.
Problem Excessive Vacations
Excessive vacation time is a problem
Regulate Vacation time.. No employee may have more that one month vacation time in any calendar year and that will be taken two weeks at a time. If vacation time is not taken it will be added to your sick pay if the fireman does not already have the maximum 12 shifts of sick pay that are allowed.
Each individual fireman is responsible for regulating their hours and time so as not to accumulate more than the maximum amount of sick leave (12 Shifts) And sick leave can not be taken for more than two shifts with out a visit to a doctor and a doctor's written perscription prohibiting work.
Put a maximum on the amount of yearly pay.
If the Firemen don't like the regulations on sick pay, overtime, and vacation they are welcome to leave. Las Vegas should have no problem finding healthy workers willing to work for 60 or 70 thousand a year.
Fire them all and offer them sixty percent of their current wages.
FIRE THEM ALL.
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/al...
If you want to know all the salaries of over 89,000 Clark County paid employees, click this link. You'll see that fire fighters are making more money than doctors, lawyers, and teachers. Also click the emoloyee's name, and it will show you their over time. Amazing that someone without a degree can make that kind of salary. Shameful!
The soultion is so simple. You must work X hours to get your base salary. If you are sick for a week, that's fine - but then you owe back a week's worth of hours which you can make up by covering up for someone who is sick.
----------------------------------------
This would make suck time unpaid.
does not make sense.
I've been in Law Enforcement in three States and PD and Fire have always been able to "milk" the proverbial cash cow. Because of Fires schedule they routinely made well over six figures, mostly responding to "medical" calls. Was it planned? Yes, some of the time. Some of the times no, it just fell that way. These men and women are not dumb. Bottom line, the system is broken, the union president is an idiot and we as tax payers need to do something! Those not "abusing" the system excuse my abrasiveness. I speak from experience, except we make our money working "paid jobs" not only on overtime and we rarely work a 24 hour shift.
Proudfire fighter...I would hope so. That is what you are paid to do! I hope that was just reassurance and not you fishing for an atta-boy.
I do thank you for not participating in the rackateering of the OT hours!
How do these guys get 13 vacation days on average in the first place. These are 24 hour shifts which equals 39 8 hour days offs for the normal worker. Then add almost 10 more sick days, which would equal 30 8 hour days, and these guys are getting 69 8 hour shifts off a year!!! I said 69 8 hour shifts a year in case you didn't grasp that but did not want to go back and review! Now inspite of taking off almost 69 8 hour shifts a year they get paid a massive amount of overtime.
No more overtime until you make up your sick days at regular pay!!!
"Las Vegas should have no problem finding healthy workers willing to work for 60 or 70 thousand a year."
They would probably have 60 or 70 thousand applicants to take those jobs.
Proud Firefighter:
Fighting fire is a serious business, and there is no one saying that your profession is ignoble.
All I've heard is people talking against the abuses of the system.
We understand that your 'shifts' are over longer periods of time- but rather than work a few days, off a few days, wouldn't regular shifts actually work better?
You're up all day, so if a fire breaks out at 3 a.m. you're as groggy as anyone else, trying to respond. I can easily forsee problems with that. Tired people are less likely to have the ability to think/react to a situation, than a well-rested person can.
Then you have the issue of firefighters being paid more than cops..
A firefighter can refuse to enter a building, if they feel it's too dangerous. If they feel the fire is too far gone, and there's little fear of the fire spreading, they stop fighting it, and just watch it burn.
When a cop is at a stand-off, we won't allow them to just sit there, and wait for the situation to resolve itself. If the 'uniform' cop can't handle things with a bit of backup, they call in the specialists, like SWAT, or hostage negotiators.
I haven't heard about the SWAT team members taking 1 in 4 of THEIR shifts off. But, even if they DID, they deserve to be paid more than firefighters.
The excercise thing doesn't bother me. If your employer sets up an excercise room for your use during your 'downtime' (breaks, lunches, etc) it's called a perk.
If they require you to pass a test/re-certify, using work hours to study, or being paid to test, is part of the cost of doing business.
Firefighters are required to stay in shape, and are tested on fitness. The Military requires it's members to stay in shape.
The Military makes 'working out' a regular part of training. If it didn't benefit them to add it into the 'workday', they'd have given the practise up, long ago.
Steve Sisolak has put his political neck out to expose this problem. While Commissioners Tom Collins and Chris Giunchigliani said if a problem exists, it is management's responsibility to curb it. Why would they not take responsibilty to solving crisis? Because they count on the Firefighter Union for their political careers.
As to addressing the problem:
1) Privatize the firefigher (like they do with some prisons)
2)Any OT is paid as straight time until OT is great then sick time taken YTD. So if you have taken 50 hrs of sick time you need 51 hrs of OT before you start getting time and half.This would help decrease the shell game the firefighters are playing.
3)Create two firefighter systems in Las Vegas.
Give a tax break to the strip properties to create their own firefighter system for the strip. And then the other handles the rest of Las Vegas and paid by the taxpayers.
How many fires are there a year in Vegas?
Very few!!!!
What is the average labor costs per fire?
Probably cheaper to let the house burn to the ground.
The County FD is not the only organization with exclusive rights to time and a half pay while theirs buddy's sit at home and gets sick time. The City of LV FD Engineer (the guy that drives the truck to Costco and the gym) gets about $1,500.00 per shift to work for his pal who called in too sick to handle the job for 24 hours.
$1,500.00 is a lot of school books, amigo's!
All of this is occurring under the watchful eye of Clark (County) Kent, who wears the same glasses as the cartoon character, and who surely will become Superman when he becomes Governor.
Mayor Goodman seems to be just as naive about this scam, or perhaps the unions are more powerful than imagined!
1. Steve Sisolak has put his political neck out to expose this problem. While Commissioners Tom Collins and Chris Giunchigliani said if a problem exists, it is management's responsibility to curb it. Why would they not take responsibility to solving crisis? Because they count on the Firefighter Union for their political careers.
As to addressing the problem:
1) Privatize the firefighter (like they do with some prisons)
2)Any OT is paid as straight time until OT is great then sick time taken YTD. So if you have taken 50 hrs of sick time you need 51 hrs of OT before you start getting time and half. This would help decrease the shell game the firefighters are playing.
3) Create two firefighter systems in Las Vegas.
Give a tax break to the strip properties to create their own firefighter system for the strip. And then the other handles the rest of Las Vegas and paid by the taxpayers.
How many fires are there in a year in Vegas?
Very few!!!!
What is the average labor cost per fire?
Probably cheaper to let the house burn to the ground and have the taxpayers have the county issue the home owner a check for a new house.
"Sisolak said it would be very difficult to prove firefighters coordinate taking sick time so their colleagues may earn overtime. But data for individual firehouses raise that specter."
Get the Federal Justice Department in here to take a look at this situation. Sisolak thinks it would be difficult to prove. I think if the Feds come in and start looking at all firefighter e-mails both personal and City/County they might find a pattern or direct references made that could prove or disprove there is a conspiracy or collusion to defraud the tax payers'. The feds can get Google, Hotmail, Yahoo and any other e-mail system out there and subpoena copies of all those e-mails. They may very well be using the system and that of itself is not an issue. The issue is if they are involved in collusion and fraud then that is just illegal. There may be an electronic paper trail of them making "arrangements" to call in sick to bolster a "brothers" way of life. This is insane. It's almost like organized crime. The feds can use organized crime laws and if they find some e-mails they can probably get them for wire fraud and conspiracy.
Sisolak needs to take this a step further rather than just using the media to infuriate the public. Get the Feds in here now! This could be grand theft of public money at a level this city has never seen.
I read the post by the proud firefighter. Don't get me wrong. I respect what you do. But, if there is a conspiracy/collusion/fraud to get tax payers' money to bolster their lifestyles that has occurred with "some" firefighters then they need to go to jail.
I think it is a great idea that if a firefighter takes a sick day, then they should then take one of the callbacks and not get paid overtime. It's kind of trading someone for another shift--that makes much more sense financially and you won't have firefighters abusing the system.
The annual Silver Bowl Swamp fire will happen soon, as it does every year about this time. When you look to the East behind the silver bowl, and see the smoke, jump in your car and you can see the Firefighters in action.
Interesting posts.
Two questions: first, is what Steve10 says about LDS dominance of hiring at all accurate? second, I have heard that firefighters retire after only twenty years with very generous PENSIONS -- is this true?
I appreciate proudfirefighter's pride but could he/she share some details with us? (I hope I do not have to see you soon, by the way, -- which raises a third question: just how many fires are there in Clark County each week?)
fosimmons--if you think the Bush administration was so corrupt, what do you think of the Obama administration with Rangel and all of the other tax cheats, Obama buying the votes of congressmen and women on healthcare by promising their states various kickbacks etc., all the lobbyists, and numerous other crooks and liars he associates with...but it's okay if he does it, right? Because the ends justify the means...
I move to clone Steve Sisolak! all in favor? vote passes.
@Megara7
Can we just focus for once on nitty-gritty issues of local good governance?
People like you, whether on the right or left, just kick up a cloud of sound-bitty dust that drowns commonsensical discussion. Go away, please, and post on a website dealing with national issues. We have plenty of problems to address here in Vegas; and here we are talking about a specific issue -- and there is plenty of thoughtfulness (and, yes, outrage) to read and think about in this forum. We do not need the clutter of off-topic rants.
To Proud - since you're obviously an upstanding guy, why is it YOU haven't busted your co-workers for abusing the system? Why haven't you and "your crew" stepped up against all the abuse of the overtime system? Don't tell us you had no clue it was happening. You stepped up to post here, why haven't you stepped up all the way and reported this station-wide abuse of the system? Waiting until it's made public info doesn't say much for your sense of integrity or loyalty to the citizens that count on you to protect them in all ways. I know, you never thought of it that way before, you just collected your check, closed your eyes and went to sleep!
pookyyorky--I was responding to someone else's post on THIS board, not just bringing up a wild hare I was on. Obviously you didn't read all of the posts, which I did. *rolling eyes*
I like Fire fighters but who cares if it burns down. I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for Vegas. Room rates are great, but still high on everything else. This makes all the free loaders come to town!!!!
I can stay on the strip for about the same amount I'm paying on my house payment. I'm moving to downtown near the new City Hall.
They should get 60k a year tops.
@Megara7
Sorry. And you are quite right, I had not kept up with all the posts. Still, I'd urge that we keep our eyes on the specific issue facing us here at home, which is what is prompting such a flood of posts.
I do agree with you there, pookyvorky. I'll try to stick to the issue at hand. :-)
Thanks, vegascrotchrocket, for supplying specific information!
But what about the LDS allegation?
Church is out, here come the firefighters follow ups. Second shift is starting.
By vegascrotchrocket
Sorry the facts differ with your salary assessment There is a web site posted called transparent Nevada and all the salaries of all county officials are posted. It doesn't take a mathematical genies to dispute your salary figures.
I've never seen the local gentry in a town so obssessed with firefightes' compemsation packages as here in Vegas. What the heck is wrong with you general population civilians?
It is so sad when public trust is so badly abused. So many of the above insights and comments are true and accurate.
cpo--I looked at that transparent Nevada site and was outraged--at first--but I looked at some of the figures and it includes benefits. Now, that includes what they pay of your medical and towards your retirement, vacation and sick days and--well, I'm not sure what else. But that kind of thing, if you figured it into anyone's salary, really inflates the numbers. Since we don't see those numbers reflected in our checks, it's an unfair comparison.
So I looked at what the actual salaries are, including overtime, longevity, etc. and while they are fairly high, they aren't anywhere near what it seems on that first page. Click on the person's name and see what they actually see on their paychecks, you know? Like I said, I still think with the overtime they are overpaid, but it's not as outrageous as it appears at first.
To; CPO
I can lead you to a website that bigfoot exists, are you gonna believe that info as 100% accurate too?
Vegascrotchrocket is right...Most of these attrocious salaries are people that have either taken buyouts, or have had OJI cases which were finally settled causing backpay issue's with 1-2 year salaries based into thier Vac/Sick payout at the end of thier careers...These can amount to an equivalent of 2-3 yrs worth of pay...The paper wont tell you that, they just want to use these numbers to hyperinflate everyone's pay to 200K a year...
We could terminate all contracts with local fire fighters & bring in the national guard to man the taxpayers fire trucks the taxpayers fire stations and so on.
We can no longer afford to pay our ( hero's ) so lets just can the whole bunch of them and put em out to pasture.
Oh, and while were at it, we might just as well crush all public employee unions & pass laws outlawing their existence, now and in the future.
Thanks, vegascrotchrocket, for addressing specifics and doing your bit to share information; others may question it, fine. (Obviously, I'm delighted to read less ranting (and such terrible, i.e. discourteous standards of writing) in a forum such as this.) Thanks, Megara7, for the quality of your latter posts!
Obviously, this issue has been much fueled by the recent alleged crimes of a paedophile fire-personsaid to be making $230K (before or after benefits??) Were the reported figures accurate? Was this individual deserving of such compensation?
Over to you again, vegascrotchrocket, I fear! (Again, I thank you for the substance of your contributions.)
Most of the top salary fire fighters are due to overtime by looking at TRANSPARENTNEVADA.COM. Many fireman have been making $30,000-$50,000 a year in overtime! No FF should be making that much in overtime! That is why some firefighters are losing their homes. They are taking away their overtime ($50,000 a year). Now they can't make their high mortgages on their newly built mansions without the over time.
And it is true about the fire department being around 60 percent Mormon. You can't get in the program unless one of your parents was a fire fighter. It's called nepatism.
vegascrotchrocket:
You've got to be kidding. The first five from CCFD on that list retired. Hadn't heard that the rest of the others did.
How many received the huge payout for Article 31? Poll the other Valley FD's and see who has this sweet provision in their contract.
Did Ganier die? I feel terrible if he did, but I hadn't heard. I certainly never heard of an injury so grevious as to pay out almost 6 times his avg salary. I know, you'll say he had a lot of sick and vacation time. He was there a long time, but wasn't there long enough to accrue that much.
A good example is Chief Chapman. No way he had enough time on the books for an additional $200K+.
Everyone inside knows this is out of control. Very nice of you to defend us though.
If those figures aren't that accurate then you are saying the agencies reporting them are not doing so correctly. The come from NV PERS who get them from the cities and counties.
Call me at the firehouse if you need additional info.
Steve10, I believe it is called nepotism. Anyway, what evidence do you have?
pookyyorky:
I'll help Steve10 out. Post me some names so I can share their juice.
Pookyyorky
I work with them.
Pookyyorky
Thanks for the correction on nepOtism. I'm sure many didn't know what I meant. The one letter change made the difference.
Strut your stuff....
Let me get this 2912 total compensated hours of pay straight :
This person that milked and cashed out 382 sick hours, plus cashed out and milked 292 vacation hours while working 2200 labor hours all accumulated within a calendar fiscal year ?????
Ummm, if you only work a total of 2080 labor hours in a 52 week span, that is a total of 40 hours per week without missing a single day of a scheduled full 8 hour per day shift (not counting any official holidays) ...
The most labor hours I ever accumulated in one calendar year was 2138, and I worked my a$$ off to acquire a substantial amount of time...the compensated hours total was 2226 which included vacation and holiday pay.
2200 labor hours averages 42.3 hours per week... and that's without missing a single week of work in a 52 week span.
Does the sick hours consist of a "use it or lose it" policy to where you would have to call in sick in order to get paid for those hours in a specific length of time, or are these sick hours just accumulated indefinate and deducted when they are used.
A study I read a while back mentioned the average working american non smoker is sick within 5 days per calendar year, while the average american working cigarette smoker is sick within 8 days per calendar year, so in reality there is no need for any government department to exceed a total of 50 sick hours per calendar year, and it should be combined with an 80 hours per year convelescent leave to where any remaining sick leave not used will be transferred into a convelescent leave account that can be compensated for ONLY job related injuries for prolonged time off.
Vacation hours should'nt exceed 200 hours per year maximum for these people, and thats if you have top seniority of at least 10 years of service.
Although I am considered lucky to work full time and get overtime pay as well, I do not get any sick pay which means.. if you don't work, you don't get paid....and every company staff member that works a full calendar year only recieves 40 hours vacation pay per year regardless how long they have time in service, it sure is better than many other positions not having any vacation pay at all.
Private businesses and most federal contracts budget their labor so much as that is 30-40 percent of their operational costs, and many no longer have sick hours or significant vacation pay packages.
Any executive, personnel manager, payroll accountant, or the average joe like me and most bloggers here will ALL agree that compensating someone with a yearly total of 2912 hours is just to the extreme ridiculous...
The only worse milking the system organization burocracy worse than this Clark County system that I know of is :
What a US Congress member makes, their premium retirement and medical packages, while their work (if you wanna call it that) timeframe is roughly give or take a total of only 4 to 8 months per year....plus they get to waste all the taxpayer money with a no holds barred frame of mind, and unlimited budget on whatever they want or need for their office and whatever additional staff members they want to hire on taxpayers expense.
Steve10, fair enough. I want to believe you (but the implications are horrific!)
In any event, as others have observed, special firefighter license-plates are to be seen always on expensive private vehicles. So, especially when one considers the unhelpful statements made by official representatives of firefighters, there now must be serious inquiry. I hate to say it, but often there is no smoke without fire! Mr. Sisolak must follow through with all urgency.
I'd still like to know if the salary-figures in the press for the indicted paedophile were wrong!
Pookyyorky
Has anyone on this blog said that 60 perent of the fire department ISN'T Mormon? That alone should tell you something. There have been firefighters on here trying to defend the amount of pay they make. Not one of them has denied that statement about the fire department being run by Mormons. It's unbelievably true. I know it is horrific. So sad--yet true....Remember, truth is stranger than fiction....and I beleive 60 percent is a low estimate.
Thanks, Steve10 -- excellent point. And sorry for being snippy about your spelling (I used to teach English -- and you can guess how that paid!). Keep sharing what you know!
Pookyyorky
Oh, that explains it!..lol..You are forgiven then...
You teachers definitely don't make enough money! I mean most of you have to earn your masters, plus earn another 32 credits above your masters, and then teach fifteen years before topping out at $66,000 a year! Remember when the RJ was picking on the poor school teachers for making TOO much??? And all the while, the firefighters were raking in all that dough! Shame on the RJ for picking on those poor teachers when the real culprits were right under their noses. The sad thing about that is....the firefighters sat right by and snickered in the corner as the teachers were taking a bashing over their "over paid" salaries! Shame on them too!...Bless you!
In most cities firefighters are publicservants worthy of praise. In Las Vegas they serve themselves. Their greed is embarrassing. Most even have side businesses. Like making 6 figures isnt enough. Put them on 5 day 8 hour shifts and stop this shameful gouging!
The greed is non-stop. Unless the entire, or at least four, county commission wants to put a stop to this, nothing is going to happen. I saw the commission meeting when 200 firefighters showed up in their t-shirts. We need 2000 taxpayers to show up in protest. That is what it is going to take to put an end to this abuse.
You are a good man, Steve10!
But do please make sure that you continue to share with us whatsoever you know about the workings of the FD. Promise? Clearly there is so much outrageousness here.
vegascrotchrocket:
Glad to see I struck a nerve. What dept do you work for?
Not CCFD, or you'd reliaze that the exact reason you provided is why many at CCFD want the airport as their assigned station. When it is, they are guaranteed even more callback than their average counterparts. Because of ARFF certification (There's so much more to an aircraft fire than a structure fire (HAHA)) there is a smaller pool of personnel to pull from that can work out there. Ask around and see how many people transfer to the Airport or Laughlin (That's actually Laugh Lin!) for their last three years. Almost all do when they look at their seniority and realize they are tired of working even a little bit at a slow station in town.
See you on the job and be careful on that crothrocket. Even if you aren't drag yourself to work and act like you fell off the apparatus.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was off-topic.
To: 30Yearshere
Most cities have papers that provide unbias reporting and real journalism.
Are you suggesting that Firefighters cant have a side business? On what basis? What a juvenile statement.
Try to look past the stereotypical ideologies that several posters on here want you to percieve. Ie 2 Incomes from marriage and having a business... Just remember though FF Plates on vehicles all put money towards charities. I bet the RJ has never reported that though...
HL9000
Wow. That was profound. Definitley worth $300,000
Steve10...Your on point buddy..The good ol'boy network(LDS n LDSpawns) needs to be called to task here.It's pretty clear that this is a organized crime that is be committed here where is the DA's office in this?
Steve you and Pooky should go have a drink together. I think you are made for each other. Here's what the conversation would probably curtail... "Oh stevie you are better. No pooky you are better, No I mean it Stevie your better"
Steve, I bet your not even a real taxpayer. You might want to call yourself one, but I bet your not. Probably didnt even pay a dime to federal last year and got money back...How's the HUD housing and WIC stuff? I hear you can live pretty well. Its no wonder you stay unemployed!
I'd rather work on a workforce composed of 60% Mormons, than work on a workforce composed of 60% Muslims.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was off-topic.
Pierre, Good point!
This is not rocket science!
A complete audit of all overtime and who called in sick and who worked for whom would pretty much give the county commission a clue as to what has been going on for years. Perhaps nothing could be done about past shenanigans, but deciding if an 8% pay cut is in order may be just what the doctor ordered.
Well I see our firefighters have plenty of free time to post here with bogus facts. Cant say I blame you, the money you folks are raking in on the taxpayer dime is quite unbelievable.
Here are the facts;
From the Sun;
The average firefighter in fiscal year 2009 was out sick for 9 1/2 shifts. Because firefighters are scheduled to work 10 shifts a month, that equals almost one month of sick leave per year. When combined with time off for vacation, which averages about 13 shifts per firefighter, the average firefighter is off a little more than two months a year.
Of course we now know they are not really off because they turn around and cover the shifts through callback pay, at 1 1/2 and I am not real clear on this, on top of their regular pay.
Listen, I am for people making the best wage they can get, including firefighters. But this is clearly fraud. The department also appears to be ripe with nepotism from the LDS church. For some reason the Sun staff doesn't think this is relative, but it is, and in my opinion makes it even more outrageous. So lets see a article on nepotism in the fire department, on top of the clear ripping off of the taxpayers.
Enough is enough"
I have been a firefighter for over 17 years. I never chose this profession expecting to make the money we are making now. However, with the city and county operating under the premise that it is cheaper to pay overtime than hire it has become extremely lucrative. With that comes risk. It used to be that firefighter's life expectancy was only seven years post retirement. We died disproportionately of cancer and heart disease at younger ages. This had been curbed slightly through work schedule and technology. However, our work schedule is now tremendous with the overtime and I suspect this generation of firefighters life expectancy to return to those previous to them. As a matter of fact, this generation's fireman aren't dying in fires anymore. We are back to dying of cancer and heart disease. There has been at least six firefighters in the past ten years in the valley that have died of cancer that has been directly linked to exposures they had on the job. These brave men fought fire in their beloved community and in the process, unknowingly, gave their lives. However, they were never properly recognized by the community for their sacrifices. We also have had a large amount of young healthy firefighters that have successfully battled this terrifying disease. These are all additional reasons that it is extremely important to maintain our physical conditioning.
As for sick leave" We are dealing with the sickest of sick people daily. As a community we are exposed to all sorts of diseases. With the overtime we are exposed that much more. When one of us gets exposed we bring it back to the station and share our sickness with everyone. Our job is also very physically demanding. Even the fittest of individuals are fighting chronic knee pain, back pain, shoulder pain. There is a lot of wear and tear on our bodies and any given year could be a challenge just to stay healthy. With that said I personally believe that people do abuse the system. For some unknown reason there are some people that believe the system of what is right and wrong is established by management and bargained for between council / commission and bargaining units. They believe that if the leave is given to them it is for them to use and or abuse. Shame on you for being that way! And shame on me for not being more verbal until now with those beliefs.
To be cont'd:
Cont'd
We are all being asked to make concessions in our pay. Some of us are more willing than others. Just remember that old saying. If you want to make a million dollars all you need to do is work a million hours. I would say on average firefighters in this valley are working at least 72 hours a week. That is way too much and way to unhealthy. We need to hire more firefighters. That, in and of itself, would cut our pay 25-50%. There is plenty of blame to go around: our valleys leaders for allowing this to spiral out of control, our unions for not fighting for what is right but rather fighting to maintain and gain, the individual firefighters "working the system" for self gain.
With that said" I still honestly believe, collectively, the men and woman I serve with are the best community of individuals I have ever known. This is our reality check. It's time for all of us to wake up! It's time to do what's right for our community and not our unions or ourselves.
mach1
Nice article. Of course I really like how you fail to mention that the average for the US time to live after retirement, is 7 years. In fact a recent study done, says if you retire at 65 your average lifespan is 67. So spare me the bogus statistics.
The fact remains the firefolks are bleeding the public coffers dry, when there is no need for a fireman to drive and expensive ambulance while we have 2 private firms in town.
It seems the need for the 24 hour live in the station fireman is over and clearly a waste of money. To much is being paid for firemen to watch tv play wii and cook for each other. Work 8 hours go home repeat 5 times a week like everybody else. At least then if they work OT its only for 8 hours and not while they sleep and go to the gym and all the other NOT firefighting they do daily.
I think the County needs to hire a group of firefighters who have the responsibility to fill in for those who are sick. They could go from station as needed. Regular firefighters would not be able to scam the system by arranging a sick time/over time swap with their buddies. In the event that the roving team is entirely used, overtime could be obtained from the regular firefighters, but in no event would they be allowed to get overtime at their own station. The scamming could be stopped with just a few simple policy changes.
Hl9000
Yes, I am a tax paying citizen with a master's degree. I am paying taxes for your salary so that you can live in your nice big house with lovely wife and 4.6 children going to your monthly Disneyland trips having the times of your lives.
Gee---- I wish I could do that with my family, but I am too busy working paying taxes for your outrageous salary.
and Mach1
The operating Engineers working for these corrupt hotels work for only 20-25 dollars an hour. They work with hazardous chemicals too, and they have to wear protective gear. They too die of cancer. Only their insurance isn't as good as yours. Plus they have no sick leave...Zero! When they are out sick, guess what? They lose 200 bucks for that day. Many go to work sick due to the fact that they have no sick leave and need the money. They are ordered to crawl in sewer holes like at the Orleans and end up dead.
For the last 25 years, Vegas was having good times. People never questioned the firemen's outrageous pay. I did, and wondered why no one would complain openly about it. I knew it was because Vegas was rolling in cash---I mean even a vallet car parker can make over 100,000 grand a year or more at a good hotel. However they aren't being paid by tax payers. It's the tourists that tip them well.
This greed has tarnished and damaged the fire departements beyond repair.
Solution is simple Nevadans. Flush the toilet on November 2nd. Vote nonpartisan/independent across the board. No iap, no dems, no green, no libertarian, no repubs. Tabula rasa this november 2nd! If no np or independent vote none of the above!
Believe it or not firefighters are making between 17 and 25 dollars an hour as well. We are only making the pay we are due to the hours worked and the overtime. And as I recall, we were in that same sewer at the Orleans saving a life and unfortunately recovering another. However, we didn't have the same luxury of knowing the dangers within the space. We showed up and was forced to make a life and death decision to enter the space and save a life and risk ours. That's what we are paid for. We entered a space where someone had already perished not completely knowing.
Steve, Im not a firefighter, Good guess though with your masters itellect. It sounds like your degree didnt do much for your career choice, if it had, you wouldnt be on a newspaper web-page crying about the money you arent making. Who's really the smart one Master Steve?
Fire fighters and police are respected and necessary. The firefighters have gone overboard and are ridiculous - the commissioners should fire them ALL and hire new ones at reasonable salaries.
The states economy is in the toilet, the county's budget is in the red, and the city can't hardly pay their bills and the FFer's ain't gonna take a pay cut.
GMAFB!
Defending the fire department or Metro and their greed ain't going to fly, especially when most of the valley is out of a job, and it's getting worse every month.
Working OT when your buddy sits on his butt at home needs to be stopped, and an audit should be done asap.
I can see the addendum to the latest memo re not hanging out at the gym's for a few months---"They're on to us, so cool it on sick outs until the smoke clears, boys"!
Hl9000
Oh, you must work for the county then....
Or---- You are really a fire fighter in denial, related to one, or a Mormon. The only ones on here ,with their arrogant attitudes, are the ones with their tails between their legs.
I have the day off today, HL---got to go do my 9-5 job tomorrow so that I can pay my taxes for your salary......
HL9000 The mention of side business was brought about to show that greed could very well be the motivation of some firefighters and to question how safe can they be on the job if they already work all these overtime hours and go to a second job afterwards.
Clark County Firefighters: Getting paid for work they **might** do. Ha! So true.
The good ol' days are gone and the good ol' boy network has been busted by a county commissioner. It's now, "Hey, he sued the county and won", versus "We're hero's, who risk our lives every day and we even go in manholes, and we didn't know it was dangerous". Well face the music, hero's! Teachers are taking a hit and they are hero's also. You guys (and gal's) are pushing the public too far and it ain't going to be pretty when the whole truth comes out after an in depth audit. Heads may roll over this latest discovery, and it just may start at the top where the brass is playing dumb.
Hey Proud, I am also a firefighter of the valley for over 17 years. This is the first time in my 25 plus years serving the public I have seen such hate. It makes me sick to read some of these posts. This has taken any and all of my pride to serve and protect the citizens of the valley(but i will continue). Remember, it takes just a few to give us all a bad name. You need to protect yourself and family, as I soon see some of these unstable individuals turning to physical threats. I want to make it clear I am not a CCFD employee. I work for a fine organization and department with outstanding firefighters. The only solution is to reduce service, shutdown stations and yes I would take a paycut to save my brothers and sisters in these tough times. Like proud said, you to will need me someday and I will treat each and everyone of you with the utmost respect, professionalism and intregrity that you will never get with a private sector. I have taken an oath and will live and die by it....
Being a firefighter can be a tough job and most are not man enough to do it but there are few jobs that pay you while you are asleep or pay you to play games or watch tv on the job. The work week must be changed Give them 4 ten hour shifts or 5 eight hour shifts. The OT is a scam manufactured to rip us off.
It hasn't been mentioned, but I think many fireman figure if I use a sick day on such and such day I can easily pick up a couple of overtime days since it's so easily available. They basically are just maxing out the system to their benefit. The system is way out of touch with any reality. What is so striking is how out of touch these fireman are very few jobs if any offer such generous pensions, health benefits, vacation pay or even sick time (ridiculous). It has been mentioned a couple of times but these jobs are virtually impossible to get unless you have a serious in. Why the public is so disgusted is many people including myself rightly believe if given the training they could do the job just as well if not better.
@ vegascrotchrocket; Hey brother you are wasting your time with these people, but thanks for the efforts!..
Stay safe!!!....
Right on rummad. That is the problem with nepotism in the fire department. You hit it right on the head. What happens is you wind up with people like the 250k a year child rapist, and the guy a few months ago who assaulted several civilians. My guess with all this brother talk, that a lot of these crimes go un reported or swept under the rug. Not only are there more qualified people, but perhaps better qualified people like yourself.
Some of these posts are getting way off base. The issue isn't the religious affiliation of the firefighters , or whether Sisolak sued the county for taking his property.
The issue is whether or not this pay is over the top, and whether it can continue.
I think it is over the top and it cannot continue.
CPO:
"I really like how you fail to mention that the average for the US time to live after retirement, is 7 years."
He also failed to mention that Firefighters are FORCED to retire, at 55. That's why they won't hire anyone over 35- they won't get 20 years out of them. So, that's still a 5 year difference. What would YOU do, to have 5 more years, with your loved ones?
Tuff:
"I can see the addendum to the latest memo re not hanging out at the gym's for a few months---"They're on to us, so cool it on sick outs until the smoke clears, boys"!"
Funny you should mention that...in last Sun. (March 1) RJ, there was a mention that a memo had gone out, JUST LIKE that one!
(lol Just got down to LVCrotchRocket's post)
"@ vegascrotchrocket; Hey brother you are wasting your time with these people,"
Actually, the people that are wasting time AND MONEY are the county (and city) employees that are gaming the system.
Times have changed BROTHER's!
The jig's up and these guys have been had!
The public (by the way that's who pays for this greed) is fed up and face it BROTHER's taking sick days off with pay and then swapping with a BROTHER and working his sick day @ time and a half has been discovered by a commissioner who appears to be getting to the bottom of all of this waste.
SHOOT THE MESSENGER, BROTHER's!!!
But the scamming days are over!!!
Well done Sisolak. Keep up the pressure.
Vegasvixon;
What is your point, so now you tell me we are also paying with tax dollars for their early retirement???? WTF. The more I read this crap the madder I get. I think Clark county has woke up, obliviously there is way more to this story, cushy retirements , nepotism, criminal behavior...
Three words:
Internal communications subpoena
Congratulations to LVSun and Joe Schoeneman. Thank you for exposing this behavior. How is it that the LVSun always seems to beat the LVReview Journal to the punch??
I just wish the Sun would expand it's coverage to what it used to be. Somebody has to be the watchdog for the taxpayer
Firefighters do a disservice to a building owner when they attempt to put out a fire because insurance companies will pay less to compensate an owner for a partially burned building than a fully destroyed one. To make matters worse, a partially burned building has likely incurred so much water damage that requires the building to be demolished anyhow, and sometimes at the owner's expense. So, if they really wanted to help, the firefighters would stay outside the building and work to prevent the fire from spreading to adjacent structures until the affected building simply burns itself out. The owner would get full insurance reimbursement and the firefighters would not place themselves in harms way. If this was the accepted approach, then we would not need as many highly trained professionals to put out fires and we could save a lot of money on salaries, equipment, and training.
On a side note, I'm in my mid forties and I have personally witnessed only a single fire in my entire life, and that was a house fire that burned to the ground without affecting any of the neighboring houses. My personal experiences indicate that firefighting is a seriously overinflated profession and I just don't understand why professional firefighters are held in such high esteem. It's just a job and is not unlike any other physically demanding job. In fact, I've watched many episodes of "Dirty Jobs" and "The Deadliest Catch" on the Discovery Channel and I think firefighting is far easier and less dangerous than just about any job depicted on those shows.
I see more BS being posted by our local firefighter "heroes".
give us all a break.
and as far as the few who claim NOT to be firefighters, but support their HUGE salaries:
you must've been staying up late watching "Backdraft" or "Ladder 49".
obviously you've fallen for the BS Hollywood romantic notion that the Clark County Firefighters try to promote.
what a crock.
again, how often is a LAS VEGAS firefighter killed or injured in the line of duty while "risking their life" to save someone from a fire?
answer: NEVER
it just don't happen that way. they spend 90% of their day sitting in their truck as they respond to routine medical and auto accident calls (when they're not in the gym or grocery store).
get a clue.
nobody is saying they shouldn't earn a decent living, but the shouldn't make ANY more than a police officer, or more than a firefighter in a REAL dangerous city like NY, Boston, Chicago, etc. makes.
and they DAM* sure shouldn't make more than a physician or advance degreed professional.
BECAUSE they are paid on the TAXPAYER's backs.
bottom line, ANY job should be supply and demand. If you can fill a job with qualified individuals for 1/2 the current pay, then they are currently WAY overpaid!
and in this current market, it would be EASY to find healthy, motivated, HONEST, HARDWORKING individuals to work their job for 40 hrs of pay a week and modest benefits (ie. - NO more than any other government employee gets)
this is only a problem with government jobs. in the private sector the market determines pay. in the government corruption and connections determines pay.
I love it when my union works out a new deal that benefits my co-workers. You all sound like people who are jealous of the fire-union. Shame on you for getting a job that has low pay and bad benefits.
WWUNLV stated.....
"Some of these posts are getting way off base. The issue isn't the religious affiliation of the firefighters...."
Religion is part of this major problem. This is discrimination. It's no differnt from the days of when black people were forced to ride in the back of the bus because the weren't white.
Fire fighter salaries are huge to benefit their memebers and church. It is a scam that the county comissioners have set up to benefit this group of people. Bruce Woodbury and Rory Reid are Mormon---and their are others. This has been their dirty little secret.
Many fit, smart, talented, bright people have tried to be fire fighters, but were not selected becasue they weren't Mormon or not connected to someone who was.
I have known many who have tried to be fire fighters and were declined. One particular fire fighter woman made it into the department, and she shouldn't have. She couldn't pass the training and couldn't carry the heavy equipment because she is has such a small frame and frail, and basically not fit enough. Guess what? She made it, and many were upset---but she is Mormon....
Ones religion shouldn't have anything to do with the hiring of a job, nor your color, nor your gender. If your qualified, you're qualified---Enough said.
It wouldn't take genius to figure out how to contract this service out. 774 hours "sick"? Wow.
I would take every advantage I could to get all the money possible if I were a Firefighter in this county. It is not the FF fault that the system is broke. Their union gave the powers that be or were a contract those powers signed it. Unfortunately I could never past the agility test. (bad knees) I work for private ambulance and with my overtime I was lucky to clear about 51,000 last year running some of the same medical calls as them and exposing myself to same diseases. My sick time and Vacation time are one and the same. So if I call off sick I lose vacation time. I get 6 sick hours per check, work a 12 hour shift. I don't begrudge the firemen. I work along side them and many are good hard working family men and women. Are they working a flawed system to their benefit, probably. Honestly so would I. So would many of you who have complained. It is not right but given the chance we all would want to do whatever we can to have the best for ourselves and family. So they may not fight a fire everyday or run any calls in a single shift. I would work the system till they changed it. It's not the individual Firefighters fault its the people in charge. Many who are no longer in charge. Do I have a solution. Maybe make it a salaried position. FFI makes so much engineer so much, FF Paramedic a set amount. Overtime is a stipend based on annual salary. Not sure it would work but it works for private sector salaried workers.
So which of you insiders is going to be bold enough to post Monday's stats at CCFD?? I'm curious to see how many call-in sicks there are today!
To EMS
Then your character is flawed as well if you would take advantage of the system. I would never, but I know many who would. You have to live with your conscience knowing you were taking advantage of the flawed system. There are too many people like you out there with that type of thinking that has gotten us into this mess today. It's the me me me generation who will bring our civilization down.
The average firefighter is a male so they should be expected to have a shorter life span then the overall population.
You guys are just grabbing the carrot that is laid out in front of you. I blame the union and whoever thinks they have to bow down to the union way more then the pawns playing the game. Next year we need to come together and have a bigger vote then the union. I have never voted in my life but this is something I would like to voice my opinion over. Get out and vote against whomever the union supports!
How many brothers are on the fire dept payroll? I have only seen a few dark skinned firemen at the gym.
Plain and simple, you shouldn't be able to get sick/vacation AND overtime in the same work-week. That is a failing of the union contract - can we please pay attention the next time we negociate a contract?
Sisolak will change his little tune when he has an acute onset of crushing chest pain. He will have that feeling of impending doom, when he can't get his breath, sweating like a marathon runner and vomiting like a teenager that drank too much. And maybe at that moment, these firefighter/paramedics will get there in less than 5 minutes to start reversing the damage being done to his heart. And if he survives the trip to the hospital, and the cath lab, maybe he will actually thank the losers that were paid to save him. Then at that point he may also realize that fires aren't the only thing the fire department does. No one cares too much if their house burns to the ground, but lose a family member, and you will never forget them.
I'm all for reduction in government spending and waste. The majority of that is found at the upper positions, not the men and women who actually get their hands dirty making a company succeed.
I love how some idiot posted on here how cops don't have the option of walking away from a dangerous incident, turning tail. Just to refresh your pea brain, there is a little town in Colorado where plenty of cops sat outside a high school while 2 teenagers shot the place up. If just one of those cops had truly tried to protect and serve, a lot more of those kids could have been saved. It's a known, proven fact. The LAPD proved it with the 2 gunmen in north Hollywood, by doing anything they could to keep those gunmen from going about their business.
95% of people leave an area of danger on their own, 5% need a little coaxing, and the other 5% are just going to die. It's the last 5% that public safety officials are there to try and rescue out of a problem.
Let's all write to the local Firefighters' Unions and encourage them to stop bankrupting our local government agencies with their greed. Here is their contact info:
City of LV union emails for the Union President, VP, Secretary and Treasurer:
D_Fletcher@IAFFLocal1285.org, S_Johnson@AIFFLocal1285.org, A_Aragon@IAFFLocal1285.org,R_McAllister@IAFFLocal1285.org
Clark County Union Contact Webpage:
http://iafflocal1908.org/index.cfm?Secti...
It's called insurance. I hate paying for it, I'm rarely sick enough to see a Doctor, but I still pay for it. It's why we pay taxes, I hope I never have to call 911 for any reason, but everyday, people do. If you think your not getting your moneys worth off of your taxes, go get in a car wreck or commit some crime, then you can stop all your whining because now your tax money is working for you. You ought to be thankful you never have the Police or Fire department at your door, the same way I'm thankful I rarely have to see a Doctor.
Journey, you are exactly right.
Remember in Nevada hourly workers get daily overtime, which means anything more than 8 hours a day automatically triggers overtime.
Moving fire employees, and I use the word "fire" loosely as they rarely take care of fires, so lets call them first responders from now on, to 12 hour shifts would save tremendous overtime from the get go.
Work 12 hours four days one week, three days the next week.
Results? Less sleepy first responders. Less overtime.
If first reponders were capped at 48 hours (4 days) in one week, they could excersice on their own time, shop on their own time, study on their own time.
While these first responders deny making over $200k a year, they need to realize that number includes benefits - and it is apples to apples with other fire (oops, first reponders) in other parts of the county - and by all accounts they are in the top tier of all departments in the entire nation.
While overtime is an issue, benefits are as well.
With the CCFD contract up this summer, lets see which of our county commissioners will have the guts to dratiscally re-do this expensive luxury that we can no longer afford. City of LV, City or North LV and Henderson all need to be addressing this at the same time.
By Chibcha "Remember in Nevada hourly workers get daily overtime, which means anything more than 8 hours a day automatically triggers overtime."
That is not true, you can work 10 hour shifts and there is no overtime as long as its a 40 hour work week.
Hey CPO, maybe Chibcha doesn't have a job. Anyone who has ever worked knows the 40 hour rule.
Showtime stated "I love it when my union works out a new deal that benefits my co-workers. You all sound like people who are jealous of the fire-union. Shame on you for getting a job that has low pay and bad benefits."
I think you miss the point of WHY this angers us. I pay taxes here and have to see less cops on the street, outrageous lines at the DMV, less teachers, etc. because of budget cuts. Our tax dollars are going towards excess pay to a bunch of "above the law FF's" working the system. As a tax payer I would rather see money go elsewhere.
Thats makes this situation much different then somebody getting paid highly by the private sector. We aren't on here complaining about VIP host at the clubs making 200k because that is paid by the private sector not me.
By SHOWTIME
March 8, 2010
5:06 a.m.
"I love it when my union works out a new deal that benefits my co-workers. You all sound like people who are jealous of the fire-union. Shame on you for getting a job that has low pay and bad benefits."
______________________________________________
There are NO jobs out there to be had, and speaking of being HAD--- The cats out of the bag, Union Boy, and in today's economy you greedy dudes are pushing it too far, and it's just a matter of time until an audit will finish some of you cat's off!
If you guys were smart, you'd lay low for a while, but ringing door bells for sympathy signatures ain't too smart, is it? Especially when the answering person is unemployed. You may have a forum in the station, but see how much praise you get on the streets, especially as of late.
Keep shooting off your mouth's and see where the public takes this - Union Boy's!
Is there another city in THE ENTIRE COUNTRY that is getting fleeced this badly?
Time to wipe out the union and start over from square 1. If privatization is the answer, do it.
Never in my life have I seen such a crooked city.
89109:
"...where plenty of cops sat outside a high school while 2 teenagers shot the place up. If just one of those cops had truly tried to protect and serve, a lot more of those kids could have been saved."
"The LAPD proved it with the 2 gunmen in north Hollywood, by doing anything they could to keep those gunmen from going about their business."
That's funny, the only difference I see, is the age of the gunmen.
Two shooters in each case, cops waiting outside for SWAT...
What I meant by 'walking away' is that when you have a gunman, bomber, or something similar- the Police Chief can't say to his cops;"It's too dangerous, we'll have to just let this situation play itself out." It's their job to keep trying to find a way in, a way to save hostages, a way to apprehend the 'bad guy(s)'...even in a prison.
A Fire Chief CAN decide if the Firefighters will just watch a fire burn...No matter who is left inside.
I'm sorry you couldn't find a way to post your opinions without being rude, and resorting to personal insults.
I know the salaries look bad. However,most of these men and woman are working their shifts and nearly half of an unfilled vacancy. If they don't voluntarily work them the county/city forces them to work. It happens all of the time. You get a call at the station and the chief tells you you're not going home today. We aren't looking for sympathy only explaining that it is the commisioners/council that decided to run the department this way. Not the firefighters and not the unions. If you had the ability to work overtime you would do it as well. As for these knuckleheads "working the system" they have obviously brought our profession great shame. If overtime was completely eliminated our salaries would easily be 25-50% less. 10 years ago overtime was non-existent. Every position was staffed and some. When someone utilized vacation it was backfilled by the over staffed individuals. When our commisioners/ councel found out it was cheaper to use overtime than hire they went overboard. Now it is costing us public opinion. The average full time employee In the US works 40 hrs a week. We are working between 70-80 hrs per week. They need to hire. As for some of you on this blog. You will hate us regardless. We could sit down and show you all the facts: The dangers we face daily, the fires that we do fight, the life changing injuries and illnesses caused by the job, etc... And you will still hate. The rest of you that still have the ability to think critically don't follow their lead. They have an agenda and an interest. The majority of us in the fire service are still here to serve. We Would be doing this regardless of the compensation or benefits.
Hey cpo and 89109, it is either an 8 hour day or a 40 hour week that trigger overtime...see below.
In Nevada, employers must pay one and one-half times an employee's regular rate of pay when an employee: (1) is paid less than one and one-half times the applicable minimum wage rate and (2) works more than 40 hours in any workweek or more than eight hours in any workday, unless otherwise exempted by Nevada Revised Statutes 608.018.
In either case, benefits (health, insurance, retirement) in the private sector run 20 percent of payroll, so if the city/county thinks it is cheaper to pay massive amounts of overtime, it is only due to bloated benefit costs and the unwillingless to crack down on this union. In terms of safety, do you really want a first responder who has been at work 24 hours (watching tv, working out, on a truck etc) to take care of you, or shouldnt they be capped at 12 hours. Airplane pilots have duty limits. Why dont first responders? Oh yes, they have stronger unions...thats why.
sure mach1, whatever u say, u could show us "the (shudder) dangers you face daily"....
I guess u could pop a "ladder 49" DVD in and we could watch it together on your station big screen TV (the one us taxpayers bought for you to watch "training films")
give us a break. you guys are grossly overpaid, and those of you who have gamed the system to further fleece the taxpayers are dishonest cheats who deserve to be prosecuted.
"heroes" indeed.
By Chibcha
Read the exemption, Stupid. Clearly you are someone who doesn't work.
To: Average Joe
No danger! Yah this happens all the time behind a desk doesnt it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btOUtWSrt...
Joe... I am sorry to inform you that you are just flat wrong. It's obvious that you are extremely misinformed. I have personally been inside several fires in the past year. I have been on several responses where our quick actions and training has enabled us to save a life. Fires are only one aspect of what we do. We have had several close calls throughout the valley that could of cost lives. we have the news coverage and video to prove it. You are misinformed! As for ourTVs. They are not purchases by tax payers either. The guys at the station chip in and buy it. If you sling enough mud eventually it'll stick.
Mach1, you maybe a honest hard working fireman, I wish they were all like you. If you read the posts carefully you can see why people are mad. One poster even indicated that they would let a building burn with people in it, if they want to. Clearly a lot of firefighters are defrauding taxpayers, and I am one of them.
All I have to say.. most of you are idiots! Not all Firemen are doing this. You will ALWAYS find one/a few bad people in any job, situation, or family. Firemen RISK their lives to save you, your family, friends, neighbors everyday. And im not saying what they are doing is correct, but to the few who said they shouldnt get paid to sit on their butts all day, to work out, or to shop? My fiancee is a Fireman is San Diego, He works 48 hours at a time, Some times he gets little to no sleep, others he doesnt do anything for 24 hours. but whether he is there, or they switch after 8 or 12 hours, someone is going to be sitting, doing nothing,
WAITING TILL YOU NEED THEM!
The next time you are in a bad car accident, your home is on fire, or what ever the reason, remember they are there for you.
CPO:
"What is your point, so now you tell me we are also paying with tax dollars for their early retirement???? WTF."
Mach1 made an excellent point, and it reminded me that I hadn't responded to your post. He said:
"The dangers we face daily, the fires that we do fight, the life changing injuries and illnesses caused by the job, etc... And you will still hate."
The mandatory retirement age, is there to protect the public. Because of all the stuff they go through, they 'age' faster. Most places put the cut-off age at 35, with an average 'working life' of 20 years- and mandatory retirement at 55.
The Military won't take anyone over 35 either.
It's sort of like a Quarterback playing until around the age of 40- but the Left Tackle might only be able to play until 30.
Do the local fire departments release audited information about their operations to the public? For example, how many fire/medical/other responses does each location respond to each month/year?
I don't understand why we have thousands of hours in overtime when we have 13.8% unemployment. If we're paying 1.5 time to firefighters because we're understaffed, why not hire a couple of new firefighters to alleviate the shortage with cheaper labor. (Also, why not have an up-or-out system that brings in cheaper, younger talent and promotes and keeps a reduced number of higher-paid employees in higher positions?)
Although public safety is critical, I don't understand why firefighters are earning more than $100k for the relatively minimal amount of work performed each day. (If I'm wrong in terms of the number of responses each day, please let me know where I can learn what actual response rates are...my perception is that they'd be few and far between.)
This seems like fraudulent use of taxpayer money by gaming the system to get overtime pay instead of normal pay. If that's the case, it's criminal and should be prosecuted the fullest extent of the law.
In response to TitanGirl's comments, I don't think many readers here are showing a lack of appreciation for what public safety servants do; it's the system in place to compensate them and their apparent manipulation of that system to extract unwarranted profits from the taxpayers that is being decried.
There's no reason why anyone should be on a 48-hour shift, especially if they sometimes get little to no sleep. Why not have more employees making smaller salaries (without overtime) who work a normal 40-50 hour week? (You can run two of those shifts so you have round-the-clock coverage.) It may be that sick time is synonymous for "tired time" given the ridiculous hours firefighters work.
Danger in a job isn't reason enough to make a large amount of money. Our front-line military men and women are making a small fraction of what our local firefighters make, and I'm sure the danger levels overseas are equal to or greater than those faced in Clark County as a firefighter or EMT.
Mach1 is a local firefighter, and I hope this question comes off with the sincerity I intend:
Is there a way for the public to learn about the number of responses that firefighters respond to each month/year? I think the best way for firefighters and others to defend themselves in the public eye is to release information about responses to dangerous situations.
Ryan Beaman is a bold face liar. He is well aware of what is going on. Also please take note of his relatives who also work for and take advantage of the department.
I agree.. I wish he didnt work 48 hours at a time. But on the other hand. He spend 15 days straight at a forrest fire here in Southern california trying to stop a man made forrest fire from burning down homes because he DIDNT have a choice. He also fell through a roof in 2008, has had three surgerys on his knee because of it. He could have been killed, but was really lucky.. and you tell me he doesnt deserve to make $3400 a month doing this? I worked in a dental office sitting on my butt all day and made $2900 a month doing nothing compared to what he does.
I think its pathetic that these people are talking so much crap on firemen when its only a some doing this, not all. Im SO sick of listening to people say "FIREMEN" as a whole, each and everyone is a seperate person, think differently, and act differently.
Sisolak is the only COunty Commissioner who actually does his job. The others are a pitiful shame and need to be voted out next election. Giunchiliani should be ashamed of herself.
"The next time you are in a bad car accident, your home is on fire, or what ever the reason, remember they are there for you."
uhhhh that's what they are paid for right?
the next time my ac is out - guess what? ac repair is there for me -
Lets try this scenario: Say i live 3 miles to the west of the fire house and the gym is 3 miles east of the fire house. (I would live 6 miles from the gym). Would it be good if the firefighters took the truck to the gym the night I had a fire?
Every one can argue about this all day long if they wanted to, but its not worth it. Shame on anyone who puts down a firefighter. They are heroes and save lives. They get sick leave and vacation just like any other worker of the city or state. Does that mean they should have to give up their sick pay or take a pay cut for it? NO!!! With everything that firefighters see and deal with at work, they deserve to use the sick pay that earned. Otherwise, why would they be given it in the first place? People are very stupid these days. Put yourself in a firefighter's shoes for a day and tell me you dont deserve the sick pay and the vacations. If you want to cut the firemans pay, thats fine but maybe next time your house is on fire or you are stuck in a car and dying, maybe remember who is saving you. And maybe the firefighters will move somewhere else that pays better and treats them like heroes and not some normal Joe on the street that sits at a desk and does nothing. These men work hard for their money and they should be paid overtime if they have to get called in at work on their day off. Shame on you Las Vegas!
uhhhh that's what they are paid for right?
im pretty sure thats my point. to the people saying that they are not there for you!
Lets try this scenario: Say i live 3 miles to the west of the fire house and the gym is 3 miles east of the fire house. (I would live 6 miles from the gym). Would it be good if the firefighters took the truck to the gym the night I had a fire?
i get your point, but as someone else stated above, why pay them to sit on their ass??? well, you have to pay them to do something weather they have a fire or not. I know the station here has a gym in it for that reason. One person is complaining about them going to the gym, or the store. While someone else is complaining about them sitting at the station watching a movie.. so what exactly do you want them to do?
shame on you. we all freakin work hard. We all put up with sh&t at work. We all need a vacation you dill hole. Your job sucks no more than the rest of ours - but we need doctors notes for sick time. vacation? who could afford that?
CWCOMMISH, I wish you would could spend 24 hours trying to do what a firefighter does.
you are all pathetic,
support your troops, your police officers, and your firemen.
I am a firefighter working in another city for a different department. I'm not Mormon, I make less than $60,000 a year, and I got into this line of work to serve my community.
I don't live in Clark County so I don't know if these firefighters are indeed "milking the system" with sick leave and overtime. If they are, I am both outraged and embarrassed. Shame on them for giving the rest of us a bad name.
The reason for my post today is to try to inform some of you who (like Sisolak) believe firefighters should work less than 24 hour shifts and/or shouldn't be able to shop and workout while on duty. Unfortunately, your suggestions, while valid, are ultimately not thought out completely and would not save any money or time. Let me explain:
A firefighter works 56 hours per week. For those of you who suggest 8 hour shifts 5 days a week, it would require three times the employees with basic benefits, retirement, and training costs. Not only that, but all fire stations would be closed on the weekends! (No one ever has a heart attack on a Saturday or Sunday and fire only happens during business hours.) The costs associated with a staffing plan such as this is outrageous.
One poster suggested 12 hour shifts, 11 paid and 1 unpaid for lunch. Seriously? I can't tell you how many meals I've missed because I was too busy responding to life and death calls. A firefighter has to respond to calls quickly and prepared every second of every shift no matter what he is doing (eating, sleeping, and yes even sitting on the toilet).
Also, the time and effort required to change out crews every morning would surprise you. With equipment checks, passing on pertinent information, equipment swaps, and other important duties, it would take up to three times as much time as it currently does if firefighters worked 8 or 12 hour shifts. Since everyone seems so concerned with all of our "wasted time" how could we justify that?
(continued 1 of 2)
(continued 2 of 2)
What is the difference in a single crew working 24 hours a shift or two crews working 12 hours each? One sleeps some of the time waiting for a call and the other just sits there waiting for a call. The real difference is the cost to us taxpayers (twice as many firefighters is twice the cost).
And for those of you who complain about firefighters who shop and workout on duty... Maybe firefighters should just sit there quietly (hungry and weak) waiting for the next call instead of being productive throughout thier shift. Ah, it must be because us taxpayers save so much money when firefighters sit there in the station as opposed to when they are being proactive and are taking care of their well being. When firefighters aren't responding to calls, training, taking care of their equipment, doing station chores, studying, doing public service projects... they take what little time they have left over to feed themselves and keep their bodies in the condition necessary to do their job.
(There are some who just sit around washing their trucks and watching tv all shift, but I share the same contempt that you have for them. Please understand that they are, for the most part, a minority and do not reflect the typical firefighter)
I mean no disrespect to those of you who are genuinely trying to come up with ways to save money for the city and come up with a better way to run the fire department. However, the 24 hour shift and the different duties and chores we do in those 24 hours is a proven and effective method that works throughout this country in fire departments both big and small.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post. Hopefully it has shed some light on how 8 and 12 hour shifts are less beneficial to the taxpaying public than 24 shifts are and that firefighters should not be chastised for doing simple duties such as shopping and going to the gym.
As a final note, I sincerely hope that those firefighters who are taking advantage of the system retire soon and are replaced by men and women who are there to look after the public and not simply #1.
For everyone who is on the side of the firefighters, there is no point of fighting with these stupid people. Like I told my friend, I wish we could put all of their names on a list to not respond to. Let them deal with their own problems while people who actually respect firefighters can be saved and taken care of. There are CEO's and managers of companies that get paid more then firefighters do and they arent at their job half the time. And for the man that said that firefighters dont need to take the truck with them when they go shopping or work out, he is an idiot because its impossible to get to a fire or accident on time if they have to get in their cars, drive to the station, and then go to the location of the accident. People are very ignorant. They need to go and spend 24 hours with a firefighter before they can understand why they get paid like they do and why they get the sick leave and vacation time.
I wonder how many teachers would put names of "stupid people's" kids on a list that they do not want to teach because their parents are ignornat and obnoxious fools and counter productive to society, FIREFE07????
Maybe you are upset that you might have to put up the cookie tray and get a job to support your family like every one else in the county.
And CEO's are not paid by the tax payers. This is where the outrage is. (Although you are right on that CEO's make too much money)
The only people who don't think what is going on here is outrageous are ff, or their family. Of course firewife has no problem with the ridiculous salaries they are making. As for Q3offsuit, good for you. FF is a necessary job, the problem we are having is the outrageous pay for almost no work. We are all aware that they respond to calls out here, mostly medical, just to show all the responses. That is how they increase their budget. It is common knowledge these guys trade off shifts to get the OT, and get paid 1.5. All the little tricks are coming out in the open, and good job to the reporters for exposing this. These guys are not heroes any more than anyone else who does their job. And Vegas ff getting any goodwill because of 9/11 is a joke. All of them were watching it on TV that taxpayers bought, or were watching while at the gym.
Stop pi***Ng on our backs and telling us its raining.
Keep it up Sisolak
firewfe07, if I had a position that would make it possible you would be terminated immediately for your attitude. I have fired employees in the past that have displayed similar attitudes.
You are a disgrace not only to the Las Vegas Fire Department, but to fire fighters everywhere. Your comments have only given strength to those of us who want the Department reined in. You should be glad that the Sun will protect your identity, otherwise I would gladly screen-shot this page and submit it to the County for further action.
Hey you heroic firefighters..the jig is up.
Shame on you. Every last one of you. Some of you claim that you didn't participate in this excessive overtime/sick pay scheme. I find that very difficult to believe. With hundreds of thousands of dollars available to you, and with your buddies playing the game, you played too.
You should all be hanging your heads from this day forward because you have brought disgrace to the real firefighters (in other states) who do their jobs while receiving just one-quarter of what you take from taxpayers. Shame on you, LVFD. Shame on you, CCFD. And much shame to county firefighter Danny Ganier who managed to "win" over $640,000 from this firefighter "lottery" in 2008. He was the top "winner".
You are all a disgrace to your uniform and your badge. Shame On You!
Many thanks to Steve Sisolak for having the courage to stand up and do what's right. Push it forward, Steve--the general public supports you.
actually, I live in wichita kansas and the firefighters get paid very little and my husband also volounteers so whats the reasoning for that? I grew up in las vegas and southern california. I have had respect for firemen ever since they saved our house from a wild fire. Let me ask everyone else this. Why is it such a bad thing for tax payers money to go to a hero who puts his life on the line to save your butt? Do you realize how much of tax payers money goes to people on welfare and inmates who commit murder? Its a heck of a lot more then what firefighters make. So no, my husband doenst make a lot of money, and yes I do have a job (so shut up Steve10) and I dont depend on what he makes. He is a firefighter because he loves helping people. Its funny because yes I think if a child is stupid, he comes from stupid people like the ones on here so there is no hope for them. so if you guys want to be mad about where your tax money is going... look at the government and the prison system and welfare... then maybe you wouldnt be making a big deal about the money going to someone who could potentially save your family!
The difference between two twelves and a 24 are big...you work two twelves then you are expected to work during your shift. YOu work a 24 and then it becomes acceptable to take sleep or have down time.
Titan, you mentione your bf making 3400 a month..did you not read these comments? Do you realize we are unhappy because some of these people are making close to 20,000 a month and these are not people out fighting forest fires for days in a row!
If I were you I would stick to defending your man only and join the rest of us who are upset for those other who are cheaping his occupation's image.
I understand that some firefighters are making way too much money for doing very little. I just dont like it when people put all firefighters in the same box. Since we live in a smaller town then vegas, he makes nothing compared to them. Some firefighters are full of themselves, but for the ones that actually work hard and even volunteer their time to do it, they deserve respect and honor. I just wish these people on here would see that they arent all the same and most really do save lives and protect people.
So why do they need to grocery shopping on their shifts anyways? I bring my lunch to work and so could they, right? So you work longer shifts..that equals bringing more food. Am I missing something here? Sorry for my naivity but please explain why this practice is necessary?
Again, don't be mad at us concerned tax payers facing more and more budget cuts. Dont be mad at the county employee who is bad because they are upset their job was eliminated in budget cuts. Dont be mad at the police officer who risk their lives and had a pay cut. Be mad at those other firefighters who abuse the system and give your husband a bad name!
I believe we have every right to be upset at these numbers!
I agree with you akrowdybuck.. he does make a LOT less then the guys in LAS VEGAS. he works for the government.. he is a federal firefighter.. he has good benefits. but what matters is that he loves his job. He loves the feeling he gets before he runs into a fire.
But what is bothering me is the people on here that are talking about firemen in general.. they are grouping them all as whole which they are not... I do not think what the firemen in las vegas are doing is correct.. but I also have to agree with firewfe07.. we spend how much money every year on welfare? and prisons? and I'd MUCH rather give my money to men and women who are going to save my life, my home, my family, and my friends, then the person sitting on death row for killing people....
and to BOFTX... WTF are you talking about? you are a moron.. she has every right to feel the way she does, and if you have any control at your workplace I feel bad for anyone who has to work for you!
My question is, the population here in Vegas is 30% Hispanic, yet I cant remember ever seeing a Hispanic Fireman. While I am sure there are some, I bet they are less then 3 % . I was thinking of joining the you know what and see if i could maybe hook up with one of these jobs !
Hey Unsilent; you seem very informed about the fire department. I think you should run for fire Chief. Instead of overtime we will start rolling brown outs ( shutdown stations and fire apparatus). 12 hour shifts perhaps?. We can cut the pay in half and have twice as many employees and benefits to pay, that should save us alot of cash. Maybe we can get Mr. Wilson will be the EMS chief?.. Medic West Employees are the happiest around, but they will need to drop some weight, get in a little better shape and maybe start cleaning the ambulance.. (too much junk food while posting). You are such wasted talent!!. So lets do it!! apply for Chief ( but please do not take away the T.V., if you do that you will not get the much needed information that spoon feeds you all of your wisdom!! One more idea Mr. Knapp can be your PIO!!...
JUAN: OMG dont pull the race card. If you want to make a change in the firefighters being mexican, then go pass the test to be a firefighter. Thats what I dont understand. How do you get from how much firemen make to being mexican? That is way off subject. I have seen a large variety of firemen. you are pathetic.
titan girl: I completly agree with you. I dont like how they are talking about firefighters in general. My husband worked for a prison and it was amazing how much money tax payers paid to have the scum of the earth taken care of. And yeah I wouldnt want to work for that guy either. Total hole.
And to answer the question about going to the store and working out... they need to go to the store to get stuff for the firehouse and they have to do it at work because they are given a card that can only be used then. Why would one firefighter have to pay for supplies and food for others? They are all brothers and they all share. And firefighters go to the gym to pass the time and stay healthy and fit. At least they arent sitting around the firehouse drinking soda and watching football. And most of the time firefighters are training or studing material to be better in their job. Just because you see them at the store doesnt mean they go there every day or that they spend their entire day there!
Firewfe
People aren't talkimg about fire firefighters in other states that make little to no money. We are talking about the firefighters n this county making 200,000 and more a year!
Go to transparentnevada.com. It shows all the salaries of the clark clounty employees. The first 20 pages or more are pretty much all fire fighters. They make more money than the judges in Nevada---and doctors, and teachers----
I can understand that Steve, but the problem should be fixed and putting down the firefighters doesnt fix the problem. I lived in vegas most of my life, then I moved out here. We have thought about moving back, but not if my husband is going to get that kind of disrespect from the people who he is helping.
steve10.. its not about the money they are making.. its about the way you are making ALL firefighters out to be.. they are not all bad...
i dont know how many times i have to say it.. every job there are bad people.. what about the Dr. who allowed all those people to get hep c just to make more money.. I worked for a dental office where the Dr. would talk people into getting root canals and crowns and expensive work they didnt need to make money!!!!! but does that make you talk bad about every doctor?? or every dentist??? i didnt think so!
Tundra if I ran for chief you would be out of a job. Also, I don't like the idea of ripping off tax-payers and pretending I am some sort of hero, so I guess I couldn't be a ff, not delusional enough for it. I would run it like a business rather then be held hostage by unions. Sorry if it offended you about exposing the nonsense you guys pull to inflate your salary. A ff should make $60k, and no more than 15-20k in OT in any given year. People would line up for the job.
The bad rep has to do with the fleecing of the public taxpayer. Read the posts buddy, the public is tired of it. The only ones defending it are ff and family. Now stop posting on here and go back to playing video games.
As far as medic west employees, they are doing it for a fraction of what ff are being paid. Thats dedication.
Firewfe07
Juan has a very good point. Apparently you didn't notice, that nepotism runs high in the fire department in the county. It is heavily dominated by Mormons. It's a fact--not one on here will deny this. If you want to be a fire fighter, you have to be a Mormon or connected to one some how. The Mormons are overly represented in the fire department--
It doesn't matter how good Juan is---If he isn't in the clique, he won't get in. At least 60 percent are Mormon---a low estimate.
Titan
We are not complaining about all fire fighters in the country---The people are voicing their anger over their outrageous salaries in Clark County. They are the the main reason why our system is $1,000,000,000 in debt. No one is denying that they should make a decent wage. No where in the country do fire fighters make what they make here.---Not even NY.
HAHA unsilent is a pathetic piece. I cant wait for his house to catch fire with him inside. And then I would like to hear how much they should get paid. Can you put a price on your life? I can and let me tell you for your life, I wouldnt even spend a dime that I found on the ground for it. The people that are on here and putting down firefighters are people who are just upset that they dont have a job or dont get paid enough because they didnt go to college or make the right decisions in life. I would love to see you run for chief. They would laugh at you and throw the papers back in your face. You know nothing about the fire field. You are just a grumpy citizen just like everyone else on here that arent happy with their lives or their jobs so you want to take it out on those who actually do something with their lives. Maybe you are just upset that you cant go and play video games because you cant afford them. Or maybe its because you are too stupid to understand how to play them. So maybe you should be the one to stop posting on here and go fiddle with your fingers in the corner!
Mr. Unsilent; Such anger. Does this mean we are not friends?. I really what you to run for chief (but you need to come up with new word "fleecing" is getting old. Dedication?. I will have to disagree with on that one, more like did not score high enough on the firefighters exam.. Lets see 60k plus 20k in OT. Lets talk.. I could live on that. But I might have give up the video games?. Yea i can live with that. Ooops sounds like we might need to start a union.. Your turn ;)
With more and more tax payers losing their jobs, especially in Las Vegas, there will be no one left to pay their outrageous salaries.
People don't go to college to be a fire fighters---funny how they make more than highly educated people that do go to college---at least in Clark County. It has nothing to do with wise decisions.
Bernie Madoff felt he made wise decisions too, until he got caught, while he fleeced all his clients out of Billions. Now he is in prison.
steve. i really do get what you are saying. and yes i agree that they shouldnt be screwing with the system to get more money. but i have read atleast 10 different people talking about firemen in GENERAL being greedy, worthless, lazy, blah blah blah.. and im sick of it.. being a firefighter comes with A LOT of responsibilities. Having to work 15 days straight. not being able to be with your family, because the forrest is on fire and threatening other peoples home and families, not getting sleep for long periods of time, having to constantly study and pass tests to keep your job, putting your life on the line for people you dont know, and seeing what they have to see.. its NOT an easy job. and im sick of people downgrading all firefighters because of a SELECT few!
easy firewfe07, Do not make the chief mad, we are talking our wages and perks. let me fleece him first. I am thinking of getting a live lobster tank in all the stations, that way we do not have to drive the big fire trucks to Costco!
actually my husband did go to college to be a firefighter. I think Mr. steve is running out of things to say... and yes to be a firefighter, you have to have your EMT and Fire 1 and sometimes Fire 2. Not only that but good luck getting anywhere on the list to be a firefighter without a degree or college credits! Maybe thats why you are so upset. You couldnt finish college or get picked to even take the exam. And its not the firefighters fault that people lose their jobs. Appearently they werent much of an asset to the company, maybe its because they didnt go to college and the other employees did... just a theory!
http://www.iafflocal1285.org/index.php?o...
People don't go to college to be a fire fighters---funny how they make more than highly educated people that do go to college---at least in Clark County.
uhhhh what????? my fiancee went to college for four years.. worked as an emt 40 hours a week while taking fire classes... go to any college.. and they have fire courses... he has to continue studying.. and taking test just to keep his job.. so before you go and post something.. know what you are taking about... he had to start applying for jobs when he started college for the position... it took him three years to get a job. its not an easy field.. so stop telling yourself that..
haha sounds like a plan tundra... firemen deserve the best... lobster for dinner. I bet Mr fire chief hasnt had that since he lost his job last year. hey and at least you guys shop and save money by going to costco. Hey maybe just maybe we should get you guys some WII's so you can all work out at the station. And play video games at the same time to make the Chief happy.
The majority of fire fighters do not have college degrees.....EMT Fire 1 and Fire 2 are not college degrees...
And I have a master's degree---and a job---and I am not jealous...
They will not be hiring more fire fighters in the county in the next 5 plus years as Vegas population is dropping due to the lack of toruism....Fire fighters will be layed off---and I am sure their pay will be cut by this summer---
5 line of duty deaths since 1955? Is that supposed to be impressive?
well.. people move.. and where they move will create more fire jobs elsewhere... Its nothing unusual..
I understand that they are degrees, but they are college courses that they need before they could even apply. And oh you have a masters degree... big deal... Are you sure how long you will have that job of yours? Hmm yeah didnt think so. And if tourism was going down so much whats with all the new hotels and casinos? You act like you know everything, but you dont. and they are always hiring firefighter, but they dont hire like walmart. I just hope you are happy with your life, because its sounding like your not. And thats not our problems. I think you are jealous that firefighters get paid good doing what they love and you dont get paid what you like and you hate your pathetic job and life.
Applicants for fire fighting jobs usually are required to have at least a high school diploma, but candidates with some postsecondary education are increasingly being preferred. Most municipal jobs require passing written and physical tests. All fire fighters receive extensive training after being hired.
Education and training. Most fire fighters have a high school diploma; however, the completion of community college courses or, in some cases, an associate's degree, in fire science may improve an applicant's chances for a job. A number of colleges and universities offer courses leading to 2-year or 4-year degrees in fire engineering or fire science. In recent years, an increasing proportion of new fire fighters have had some education after high school.
HAHA steve you are stupid... do your research before you start typing. There are far more line of duty deaths than 5. Gosh for having a masters degree you sure are stupid...
Hey Steve, I Have met alot of people with masters degrees that were as dumb as box of rocks when it comes to making split second decisions.
How many times are you gonna give everyone on here your resume?
Hi, Im steve, I have a masters degree, Hi Im Steve, I have a master degree. We all know now for the 20th time...
the education part just proves even more that you are upset over them making more money than you. they dont have degrees and you have a masters... stop crying and do something with your life.
Thank you HL9000!!!
No Steve, Probably not in your eyes, But how about the other 16 that are currently battling or have fought Thyroid, Brain, Bladder, Basal Skull Bone cancer...And thats just one Dept to speak of...
Firewfe07
You don't live here--as stated. You have no idea what is going on here when you are living in another state.
I was born and raised here in Las Vegas, and I have very good job security unlike many of the unfortuantes that have lost their jobs here.
The new hotels are empty by the way. Appaently you don't watch the news as many big businesses have been closing down. Many hotels have closed down their towers and dealers are being let go-hotel staff are being let go. It is very bad here. Nevada has one of the worst forclosure rates in the country. Why forclosures? Becasue people have lost their jobs. Why are they losing their jobs? Because of lack of tourism.
HL9000--another disgruntled Mormon.
To firewfe07, Sorry for the delay, I was playing my new video game and got to a new level!!. Anyway; so the Chief says about 80k. If I keep my SECOND job as speech writer for the new fire chief we can make it on that. I might have to sell the home in Brian Head??.. Nope, payed cash for that. What else would you like me to ask for from the chief. Let's see hmmmm??. I know covered parking for my BMW ( i mean our BMW). Sorry it is IGM in me.. Ok chief your turn. Man this union stuff is easy and kinda fun!!.
Things will change by this time next year. The county, state, and city will be so broke firefighters will be working for IOU's. At that time we will see how much firemen love their jobs.
Steve, Wrong again as usual, Im Catholic...
Why bring religion into this? Are you Atheist or agnostic?
You sure have alot of hate for the mormons though for some odd reason?
and as stated before---other professions have hazards too---like skyscraper workers, coal miners, police, operating engineers, nurses, doctors, etc. Every profession can have it's dangers. The president of the United States makes around $250,000 or less....
Your profession isn't the only one where people get cancers. With your excellent modern equipment, you are not exposed to hazards like long ago.
Hl9000 you are too defensive on here
Actually, I am a Jack Mormon....Hl9000
I know how the system works here.
an interesting investigation of how many of these folks don't even live in or pay property taxes to clark county, would show lots of our tax dollars in those pay checks are going to Lincoln county and Utah.
No Steve, The president makes 400K a year. It was voted in a few years ago.
Maybe you should stay up on more than your local politics. I expect more from someone with a masters degree, I suspect it must not be in Political Science...
All of our local fire departments are simply too expensive for what they provide and in these tough times their public support is weakening. Spending records, emails, overtime requests, sick leave requests and discipline practices or lack thereof on the part of management and firefighters are public record. The public is going to demand that they operate efficiently. The City of Las Vegas Fire Chief recently sent out an email that told firefighters to start following the rules and stop taking advantage of the overtime. The public is now aware that firefighters have a covert system in place to double their salaries with unnecessary overtime. We need to demand that a major audit of these records takes place. I don't think that firefighters and their chiefs will be able to justify their actions.
Thank God for wiki-pedia-HL9000
I know lets make Steve 10 the assistant chief. You got my vote brother. But you might want to drop the Mormom thing. Chiefs must be professional.( just saying is all). After all i am not very well edumacated hose jockey knuckle dragger..
What system is that Steve? I really find religion and what FF's make very irrelavant?
No surprise there, HL9000
No Steve, I didnt need to look that up, I too have an education that is apparently broader than yours.
So whats a Jack Mormon with a Masters Degree Make? Sorry, couldnt find that on Wiki-pedia
yellow
You are right on that!
More than you Hl9000
Why is it that the other public employees (all of whom make far less than firefighters), such as attorneys, professors, architects, engineers, social workers, police officers and teachers aren't complaining about cuts to their pay and have already accepted previous cuts? Can a firefighter answer that question?
Big Dawg
The police and teachers have been complaining, and the fire fighters do not want to discuss your question.
Steve 10 , I know your childhood dreams did not come true.. But if come down to the station (if stays open) you can sit in the fire truck, get a plastic somewhat real looking fire helmet, a sticker badge and even pet out firehouse mascot spots. O yeah!!! and you can meet our new Fire Chief Unsilent. Do not let them fool ya!. He can be mean!!!.
Mormons make better firemen because they are taught not to play with their hose, masturbation in the Mormon religion,is against the rules.
Suebee, The chief is not going to like that comment.
ok HL9000 and TUNDRA: Screw all of these retards... they will be screaming for help sometime in their life... and because firefighters are such good people, they would actually help them so I give you props for that, but if it were me I would just laugh and look the other way and hear them scream because they have put down fireifighters way too long!
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Tundra, Firewfe, Hl900000000000000000000000
you bore me...I'm off to watch the ID Channel! Good luck entertaining yourselves tonight as you three are out numbered on here.....Good luck to you when you start making a normal salary.
Suebee, Please! we have alot of Fire Chiefs in the room. Watch the potty mouth.
firewfe07, HL9000, We will meet again. All the Chiefs are leaving. I say goodnight and do not spend all your money in one place. Steve10 must of had to go to bed. Not me, I still have four days off. Unless I get O.T.? God Bless and stay safe. ( I really think Steve10 is really considering that plastic red fire helemt offer ;)...)
I fail to see where all the anger is coming from... It seems like the same people who want to hate over and over again. I understand that the salaries are currently outrageous. Yet, when you break them down a large portion are from overtime. Why are we running these departments so thin that there is this much overtime available? These are the questions we need to be asking.
As for the response statistics they are always posted annually for all departments in the US. You would see that per firefighter we are one of the busiest departments in the country. A large majority of those responses are to Emergency Medical responses.
For those on here that believe emergency medical responses would be better handled by the local private ambulance company you just don't understand the facts. In every city there needs to be a fire department. The amount you pay on your insurance is dictated by a scoring system established by the industry. The industry evaluates each and every department, scores the service and decides what you need to pay. The calculations cover things from water supply, to level of training of the ffs, to the ffs per capita, to the estimated response times. Your department gets a poor score and you pay higher premiums. Now your county commission, and city council decide what level is acceptable and build stations and staffs the department accordingly.
Well guess what" That is for fire responses. Now you have a work force ready to respond to any and all emergencies. They are periodically located to respond and manned. Years and years ago it was decided that the fire service should do something in addition to only fighting fires. They would start to respond to emergency medical responses. So they started to do that. Several departments have completely taken over emergency medical responses and transports very successfully (Henderson being one of them). Everywhere else in the valley the fire department responds to the call, typically arrives first, evaluates the patient / stabilizes the patient, the private ambulance arrives, the fire department hands the patient over, ambulance provides transport to the hospital, ambulance bills the patient, collects all fees. On top of that" if the patient's condition is life threatening the fire department rides in the back of the private ambulance and takes charge of the patient. Guess what??? No sharing of fees" private ambulance collects for the transport. The taxpayer is the one getting 'fleeced' in this deal. Your local fire department does most of the work, private ambulance provides the taxi ride and reaps all the rewards. What would it take for the fire department to take this over should be the next logical question" Nothing" We would need all the politics of the situation to take a back seat to common sense and raw numbers. If you privatize the emergency medical you still need the same number of firefighters per capita.
1 of 2
2of 2
On top of that" There are situations daily where the ambulance company reports that they are just flat out unable to respond. They aren't coming folks. Then who do you call? Fire department can't do it anymore. Oh yeah, don't forget they might strike. Then who's coming?
You want to know who is most angry on this blog? The private ambulance guys that are feeling fairly vulnerable these days.
As for the firefighters "working the system"" Again, shame on you!!! You have obviously disgraced our profession. Our unions have helped create a system where essentially the most crooked succeed. The most honest gets blamed. For you real firefighters on here making these outrageous statements shape up" Your actions represent me and many more that have come before me.
As for coming to your house when you are in need. We will be there. Whether or not you hate us and think we are the scum of the earth. We will still serve you.
Big Dawg... We are at the table right now. However, we aren't getting straight answers from those at the other side of the table. There are a lot of us more than willing to step up to the plate and do what we can. Just wait... These things take time.
HL9000:
Love the first video of the wall collapse. Almost happened to me the other day at my desk when I was putting in an EMS report from 3 shifts ago and the stack of books came undone. Lucky for me I read some Francis Brannigan earlier in the shift and had enough situational awareness to avoid the collapse. The video reminded me that the fireground can be and is occassionally dangerous. Therefore, when on said fireground, I'm to remove my head from my arse and not stand around near a wall in which the structural support is gone due to said fire.
Love the second link also. The first death is the most tragic. That's why we don't resuce CATS anymore. Ever see a cat skeleton up a pole? It got up, it'll get down.
Also love you other videos boating in Laugh Lin. A little disappointed that the boat is not red with flames down the sides and called fireslayer though. Keep on boating brother Sam.
Stay grounded, a little humilty goes a long way.
$150,000 sounded like garbage two years ago when you decided to skip college and park cars at Planet Hollywood for $300,00. Sounds like alot of money now.
For those of you who say that FF can't work shorter shifts, I'd like to know why it works out for Doctors?
They (especially Residents and ER staff) often miss meals, get called off the toilet, work in unsafe conditions, etc...
But people have FITS, when they hear the staff is sleep-deprived. Why? Because it increases the chance that the Dr. would make a fatal mistake. They have equipment to check, and status reports to do, as well as charting. But- they seem to be able to do it in shifts.
Cops work in shifts, too.
What would happen if the FD went on strike? Neighbours would grab hoses and shovels, and set to work. Just like people did, before anyone got paid for the job.
Only people like Neurosurgeons can't be replaced. We can pull our own teeth, and sew up our own wounds. Is it BETTER to have a trained professional? Sure.
Just, please don't be so cocky. It's not about YOU personally, it's about the budget as a whole, and finding a better solution to our problem.
What I learned from this article is that if you want to win big in Vegas stay out of the casinos and become a firefighter!
I get it now...you have to go to the grocery store to use your special card because we also pay for your food. Thanks for clarifying.
You guys got a great gig and I'm happy for you. I am willing to bet that there is a lot less trades then in other departments here in Vegas. That should be an easy audit and lead credence to the sick policy being abused. Im sure most of you didn't take this job for the money so lets do away with all this overtime since you do have a lot of down time.
Try as I might I cannot get over the fact that you can ever get overtime when part of your job consist of playing video games, poker or sleeping! Or that you can get overtime for basically trading shifts by calling in sick? Or that you only work 120 shifts a year but you get 23 paid off days on average? That is one out of every 5 shift almost (or once a week for an 8-5 worker)! When you think about it that way with all the financial difficulties the state is having it is hard to stomach.
I have a feeling that there is going to be a higher sales tax or even a state income tax soon and like it or not you will get scrutinized more and more as this happens (and yes I know that the state doesn't pay the fire department but try to explain that to 1 million angry citezens).
Now that we the tax payers have been chastised for even questioning the dedication to duty and the inherent dangers of a ff in this valley---
What's up with the original question regarding gaming the system?
Are employee's of the county (and yes the city) calling in sick and then having their brothers work at time & a half, in their place, or not, and if they are is it a pre-planned arraignment (conspiracy)? If it is and it can be proven all of this rhetoric about how stupid everyone else is is mute, and a few brave soles may just end up unemployed also, or worse yet, in the can.
If I were a ff in this county, right now, I'd be a little more humble towards the public, because getting the citizens who pay your salaries pissed may just be the fuel that burns all of your asses!
However, don't take my word for it "autonomous posters", go to the next board meeting and tell them how smart you guys are and how dumb the public has been for all these past years!
The big question is why is Commissioner Sisolak the only one bringing up this issue and taking on the firefighters union?
Where do the other six commissioners stand? Where is Rory Reid? He wants to be governor. We need to know where Brown, Brager, Collins, Weekly, Reid, and Giunchigliani stand on this. Is Sisolak alone, or will any of these folks support him?
Any thoughts?
Senior Reid, please let us know, why are no Mexicans on the Fire department ?? I think if Sandavol gets in this will change.
Jaun
Insiderwiththetruth:
You should feel proud that those books didnt hit you, or maybe they should have to knock some sense into you. Of course that is the only thing that could hit you of any substance since a fire ground is something you have probably never seen. Be careful of the saline bags coming off the rack in that private ambulance of yours, those turns can be a doozy!
Fireslayer, Good boat name, I like it. Love your you-tube videos you have produced, very amusing. Still trying to figure out who Sam is?
HL9000 why continue with this debate with people that are so into their own selfish world. They are only proving the point that it's ALL about them, and screw everyone else, even teachers and medicare recipients.
Their day will come unless they realize that these posts only add salt to the wounds, and the fun they're having posting from stations throughout the valley are being printed, as we speak.
That's how smart some of these guys are---
Attack and insult the taxpayers on a public forum!
I can tell you that a full investigation of the past probable scams (re overtime) will be very enlightening, even for the brass who stated that, "This ot/sick stuff was news to them".
Again, if I were smart and a ff, which I obviously I am neither, I would clam up until this serious matter blows over. But they just can't do it, mostly because they actually believe that they are irreplaceable, and primarily because someone has figured out their ploy and they are freaking. It's the pack mentality, and that's exactly what got them into this situation in the first place. If one wants to go unnoticed one acts alone and keeps his mouth shut. But as has been witnessed by all, they just can't shut their traps!
I get it now...you have to go to the grocery store to use your special card because we also pay for your food. Thanks for clarifying.\
this may be true in vegas... but not everywhere.. in san diego.. they pay for their own food.. just for your info.
(yes i get that this is not about southern california - but im sick of people thinking of all firemen as a whole)
I'M SO SICK of people saying .. oh its on the TAXPAYERS DIME!! Do you know how much you pay for firefighters??? $20.00 (TWENTY DOLLARS) a year... each person pays..... so get over yourselves! All FF are TAXPAYERS TOO!!! If you wanna make what they make.. go to school take the test...AND PASS.. its not as easy as it looks! I'm personally thank for for ALL the firefighters in our valley! THANK YOU!!! and another note.. there is no special card.. They live away from there families 24- 48 to 72 hours at a time... They have to eat.... the firehouse is there home. They are human...and unlike Metro (who gets to go out of service to eat) they are on CALL 24-7 .. no lunch breaks no going out of service to eat.. thats why you see them at the grocery store a few times.. they get calls in between ....if you wanna know FACTS go to your local firestation... spend a few hours there..and tell me would you wanna do that job?
TitanGirl:
"(yes i get that this is not about southern california - but im sick of people thinking of all firemen as a whole)"
Would you like to re-state that?
None of us has said ANYTHING about YOUR 'firemen'. What happens in So. Cal, is up to the voters and residents THERE.
We're talking about OUR state, OUR city and OUR county. (We're also pretty fed up with Californians 'moving' here, and telling us about all the stuff we need to change, yet still registering their cars in CA.)
SAHM:
So, where do you think the REST of their salary comes from? Manna from Heaven? No lunch breaks? Then why on earth would they even NEED food?
VegasVixen
well said. I was getting tired of reading all of titangirl's posts crying about firefighters as a whole being "slandered".
TitanGirl
on the contrary to your arguments, many of us have talked about how firefighters in other large metro areas are the REAL heroes. firefighters in Chicago, NY, Boston, SanFran, etc that have to actually fight fires in 100 plus year old high rises. these men and women are REAL heroes, and they deserve our respect.
and, this is the important part: they do their jobs in those cities for LESS than HALF what our local "heroes" are fleecing us taxpayers for. and they live in cities with not only more dangerous structures to fight fires in, but considerably higher cost of living.
the negative comments on this forum are aimed directly, and solely, at the LOCAL firefighter "heroes" who have successfully gamed the system and are robbing the taxpayers blind.
again, the huge majority of construction here is single or two story stucco, and the casinos are all built or retrofitted with the best state of the art fire suppression systems in the world.
"heroes" indeed.
how often are Vegas firefighters injured or died while "saving a life" in a burning structure?
NEVER. it don't frickin' happen.
put down the TV remote and quit watching your Backdraft and Ladder49 DVD's before you post.
that's hollywood. in real life in Vegas, they have a cushy, grossly overpaid job.
"HAHA unsilent is a pathetic piece. I cant wait for his house to catch fire with him inside. And then I would like to hear how much they should get paid. Can you put a price on your life? I can and let me tell you for your life, I wouldnt even spend a dime that I found on the ground for it."
You sound very educated there firewife. You actually want my house to catch fire with me in it?
Thats quite the heroic attitude you have there. Lets hope that attitude isn't the norm among ff and their families.
Tundra, pride comes before the fall.
The citizens of vegas are not on your side. The act is old and tired. The only people defending ff are the ff and their families. If you guys can't admit you are overpaid and rigging the system, then a full investigation should occur, and you guys have nothing to worry about. I know for a fact that these things go on, and so do you.
Be heard vegas. Stand up and be heard.
vgasbb -- Sisolak has only been a commissioner for one year. He is most certainly NOT "part of the problem." He's about the only one we hear from who is consistently logical. He's the only one willing to stand up for the people and exercise a little common sense, as best I can tell.
As for firefighter pay ... yes, it is OUTRAGEOUS. And there's simply no defending it. Spare me the "running into a burning building to save a child's life" line, too, because firefighters' jobs aren't nearly as dangerous as police officers' jobs (especially in Vegas, where we have few fires). If the danger level was the basis on which everyone was paid, then there would be a lot of low- and middle-class people who make a lot more. For some reason, it's only the firefighters who've managed to play this danger card. What could that reason be? Oh, that's right, 9/11! I personally find it very distasteful the way the firefighters have used that horrific tragedy for their personal gain.
But apart from any of that, the amount of compensation REALLY is not the point here, is it? What's at issue is the fraudulent way firefighters are gaming the system. Personally, I think the next time a firefighter calls in sick, they should send a surveillance van to their house, and if they are caught on tape doing something that proves they're not sick, they should be fired on the spot.
hey vegasvixen. im from vegas. i lived there for 10 years. i own a home there still.. and i pay taxes there.. my truck is registered in vegas.
shut your mouth. because you dont know. I know quite a few firefighters in vegas who ARE good people and are not messing with the system! so stop taking about ALL firefighters being bad when they are trying to save your waste of a life!
This has to be the hottest topic I've ever seen on this site (in my short time living in Vegas). I've read a lot of the 300+ comments on here, and I think we can summarize the whole discussion in several points:
(1) Firefighters often have to risk their lives to provide us with public services. We should appreciate their service and sacrifice.
(2) Anyone who manipulates a payment system by trading sick/vacation time for overtime pay is defrauding the taxpayer and should be prosecuted criminally.
(3) Not all firefighters are abusing the system. Those manipulating the system shed a dark shadow on the entire profession. (Those who aren't should be leading the charge against those who are.)
(4) Something needs to be done by Clark County government leaders and the firefighters' union to figure out what has been happening and put a stop to it. If this kind of abuse continues, our communities suffer and firefighters will continue to get a bad rap.
ahhhh, more intelligent commentary from Titangirl....
so you maintain your nevada state residency ON PAPER so you can avoid state income taxes where you are living now. nice.
yep it's nice to avoid that California state income tax by lying about your residency ain't it.
and a lying tax cheat like yourself has no business telling others to "shut your mouth" (those are YOUR words).
sounds like you fit right in with your lying cheating local firefighter friends who are gaming the system and robbing us taxpayers blind.
umm... im not avoiding paying my state tax. I JUST moved here less then a week ago so I have YET to change my reg. and and im not lying about residency.. I OWN A HOME IN VEGAS, I OWN A HOME IN CALIFORNIA, I LIVE IN BOTH, about 50% of the time. so I am in no way lying about it what so ever.
Kudos Commissioner Sisolak:
"You can't blame management because they do what we (commissioners) tell them to do," he said. "If we want to do something about it, if we want to negotiate contracts that don't allow this to happen, then that's what we have to tell county management."
Thanks for being honest.
Well put newcomer... I think you summed it up well. Those manipulating the system need to be held accountable. Our public entities need to hire more personnel to properly staff their departments and control this overtime. It is out of control! As for the sick leave... An easy control would be to suspend any firefighter who uses more than 100 hrs sick In any given year from working OT for a minimum of 6 months. Problem solved!
Joe:
"and a lying tax cheat like yourself has no business telling others to "shut your mouth" (those are YOUR words).
sounds like you fit right in with your lying cheating local firefighter friends who are gaming the system and robbing us taxpayers blind."
Thanks for that!
TitanGirl:
Whilst I prefer to engage in civil debate, there are times when someone comes along, who is rude enough, and ignorant enough, that even Miss Manners would give them a beat-down. You have achieved this status. Do attempt to keep up, Dear. No Cliff's Notes will be provided.
You need to re-read the posts by Mach1- you know, the owner of a butt that's ACTUALLY on the line- Has shown that he understands that most of us here are speaking in GENERAL about the budget, and the people (criminals) who are abusing the system.
He's not taking it as a personal attack. In fact, he has been offering his opinions, and his rebuttals in (what I feel is) a sincere attempt to inform. (My personal thanks for that, Mach!)
All YOU have done here to date, is; attempt to reflect in the 'glory' of your boyfriend, spread mis-information, and generally act like the Big Itch that you're proving yourself to be.
***correction- I added an "i" and a "g" too many, in that title.***
As you seem to think that the hard work your bf went through, his training, his risk, and any praise/respect that he earns, somehow belongs to YOU, as well- let me inform you that this Fox can not only run with a little dog like yourself, but I can also wee MUCH higher on THAT wall.
(Continued)
You know NOTHING of 'personal sacrifice', or even 'public service', until you kiss your Husband good-bye, on his way to War...roughly two months after you find out you're pregnant, the same month it's discovered that it's a high-risk pregnancy, and that you'll be dealing with every 'scare' all alone. You'll send him off, not knowing if he'll even live to see that child, and knowing that he won't be allowed to return home, even for the birth.
But, you understand that it was part of the risk you take, when you marry someone in the Military, or on the Police force. (Or, when they signed up, during your marriage.) You know that the BEST way for you to help, is to be brave and show your support, because should they have a split-second decision to make, you don't want the memory of you, screaming and sobbing, to influence them in the wrong way-and maybe get them killed.
I was Proud, Honoured in fact, to be able to support the Father of my Child, as he served his Country. Yes, I had to make some personal sacrifices- I didn't have my husband at my side, we don't have any 'pregnancy stories', no laughing about 3 a.m. cravings, or the first time he felt the baby kick.
That doesn't mean you will EVER hear ME claim, that I should be somehow included, when people thank the men and women in our Armed Forces. Those of us 'back home' only do it out of love for our Spouse, Child, Parent, etc.
Our loved ones, do it, out of their love for this country, and in defense of all She stands for.
Even when it means they are dying, just so a spoilt, whiny girl can complain that people are so MEAN by asking for an accounting of the money going to the poor Firefighters(who are being paid UP TO 10 TIMES the wage our military is making!)
I think it's clear who has a 'waste of a life'.
I won't tell YOU to shut up, though. I know too many good people who have lost their lives making sure that you are able to say as many ignorant things, as you wish. I will honour that sacrifice.
VEGAS VIXEN
Awesome! Well said! TIT~an is a wee bit annoying and arrogant.......She thinks she's all that and a bag of fritos....
Remember the old saying......Speak lies and watch them doing nothing.....Say the truth, and watch them scream like babies....
Thank you, Steve.
I don't normally condone 'flaming'...nor do I normally find myself in a position where I'm the one who DOES the flaming.
In this case- I felt her refusal to see that we weren't trying to paint them all with the same brush, coupled with her personal and unwarranted attacks (and not just upon myself), called for me to prove that you don't need to be a male, to own a set of...erm...basketballs. ;D
Not counting UMC workers, 3,533 county employees received longevity pay in fiscal 2009, which ended June 30. The median payment was $5,474. The greatest payment went to Donald O'Shaughnessy, a Clark County Fire Department battalion chief employed since February 1976. In fiscal 2008 his longevity pay totaled $40,835.95. He also received overtime payments of $61,314 bringing his total pay that year to $224,442. The next highest was also a Fire Department employee, Danny Ganier, who received $40,229.58 in longevity pay; his pay that year totaled $134,156.66. Nine of the top 10 longevity pay recipients worked in the Fire Department. In just one year, those 10 people took home a total of $340,770 in longevity pay.
VEGAS VIXEN, Kudos! So true and well said.
The firefighters doth protest too much, methinks.
Thanx Dawg!
But, it was not the 'dog' in this fight who was barking too loudly, it was his....
What was that word again?
The one that means female dog?
Oh yeah! I remember! It's...
Probably not something I'd be allowed to use, even in it's proper form.
VegasVixen... Thanks to your husband for his service. Thanks to you for your sacrifice.
Steve10... There really isn't much to say about that. Experince and years on the job do mean a lot and should be recognized WITHIN REASON. With that said...
Mach1:
I appreciate the sentiment.
I also know that my 'sacrifice' was merely a modern convenience- and a small price to pay, in exchange for freedom. So, I (hope?) believe that most people would have been willing to do the same, in my position.
In case I haven't been clear- I DO thank you for your public service, as well, and I think that your job (all jobs, in fact) deserves a living wage, and decent benefits...and yes- a reasonable system of increases in pay, as a reward for experience and long-service.
Lest anyone think I've gone soft- I have YET to meet the Firefighter who I could justify being paid a salary of $200k plus benes.
Nor I... Just one point. There are no firefighters making a "salary" of 200k. For the most part, the ones making that are putting in some serious overtime hours. I'm not saying that's the way it should be. I think I have made myself pretty clear that these overtime hours are a problem and need to be dramatically reduced.
True, Mach1, I mis-spoke. $200k is NOT the salary.
Yes, you have made it clear that you do not support 'grift'...and I, for one, appreciate you speaking out against it.
I think we're all searching for a way to fix this, without causing either the Taxpayer, or the Firefighters an undue amount of pain.
The number of posts here are remarkable. The more that people share information, the more that they are thoughtful about the issues, and the more that they try to find common ground upon which we can build better policies for our county and our state, the better we all shall be be (and the more readable this forum shall be!)
@HL9000: last I read of you (you've probably posted many, many times since), you were creepily sneering because steve10 and I had argued, questioned, and then arrived at positions of politeness, purposefulness, and hope. I'd like to think -- okay this notion might be as naive as it is somewhat pompous -- that one of the many lovely virtues of this nation (I was proud and thrilled to become a citizen last year of the USA) is a shared willingness to talk politely about the problems that face us in our community. Firefighters make more money than we can afford. We need schoolteachers that do not come from the bottom third of college graduates ranked by intelligence and competence. We need honest, polite, and frank dialogue. We need to share information.
Please go and sneer at yourself in a mirror.
Hey Pookyyorky!
Good comment--and thanks for the support!
HL9000 said that I hated Mormons. No where on my posts did I say that I hated Mormons. What I did say was that they are overly represented in the fire department and that they are protected by the Mormons that are overly represented in the Clark County Commission.
I work with many fine Mormon people, and they will tell you, privately, that this is true. Many of them do not like this as this is now becoming very embarrassing to them and is tarnishing their church.
The Mormons are the ones that settled in Nevada. The Mormon pioneers settled in the Clark County area in the 1800's. They were here prior to the Vegas Mob. They have a control in all county departments.
By stating this fact, does not mean that I hate Mormons. It is no different than saying if you don't brush your teeth, you will get cavities. It's just a plain fact.
Many corrupt Mormons don't want the public to really know about the truth behind this scheme they have been working for the last 20-30 years. They more they get away with, the more careless and arrogant they become. Which is what we are now witnessing.
I suggest that people check out our leaders backgrounds, and that includs religion. You never want one group of people dominating the county or country. When this happens, they only work out deals that benefit their group they are affilated with.
Look at the banking system and see who domiantes it.....It's a certain religious group...Same with Wall Street---- Hollywood---the Media----The same group is in control of of all these just mentioned. Now by stating this, it does not mean I hate them just because it is a fact. Look it up.
Bernnie Madoff was getting a little too cocky/arrogant for his own good, and got caught and is now in prison because he fleesed his own---which is a no no.
It's good to see people waking up!
Man them mormons are everywhere, glad to see it takes the heat off my people
JuanSanchez:
Too bad so many of 'my people' are now 'them Mormons' eh?
If their contracts can be renegotiated for all sick and vacation time to be combined as "Paid Time Off", and overtime is counted against any PTO hours within a 40 hour pay period, that would solve that.
The average Clark County Firefighter uses 9 1/2 days of sick leave per year, yet the average recent ex county commissioner has spent 9 1/2 months in prison. Nice example there commish!
Public sector unions need to be eliminated and anyone caught trying to join or organize one needs to be hanged for treason.