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Friday, March 19, 2010 | 2:01 a.m.
Steve Sisolak
Related Documents (.pdf)
Sun archives
- Las Vegas firefighters burn up more sick time than other city employees (3-14-2010)
- Clark County firefighters profit from sick leave policy (3-7-2010)
- Commissioner offers pared Metro budget as example for others (2-25-2010)
- Horrible county budget outlook worsens, tough decisions loom (1-20-2010)
- Town hall on budget shows which side is which (1-14-2010)
- Clark County priorities panel meeting in Las Vegas (12-16-2009)
- ‘Longevity pay’ costs millions in county (12-10-2009)
- Firefighters feeling budget backlash (5-28-2009)
- County, fire union break ice with heated words (5-7-2009)
- Firefighters have perks to give back, if they wanted to (4-29-2009)
- Shortfall looms large as fire union holds out (4-23-2009)
- It pays EMTs to do I's and cross T's (4-22-2009)
- No concessions yet from firefighters (4-12-2009)
The clock is ticking for Clark County Commissioner Steve Sisolak to shut his mouth — or else the county firefighters union might try to shut it for him.
That’s the message implied in a March 10 letter from an attorney representing the firefighters union to County Commission Chairman Rory Reid. The brief missive tells Reid that commissioners “continue to address the media on matters within the scope of bargaining, despite negotiated ground rules to the contrary.”
The letter asks for “confirmation not later than March 20, 2010, that this practice will cease.”
The county and the union are negotiating a contract. The rhetoric about firefighter salaries and other compensation has grown heated because the county faces a massive budget deficit. At the same time, commissioners and county staff perceive firefighters as unwilling to make any real concessions to help balance the budget.
Although the letter is vaguely worded, it’s clearly directed at Sisolak — the most outspoken about firefighters and their pay.
Just three days before the letter was sent, he was quoted in the Sun, expressing his belief that county firefighters have been “gaming” the payroll system by piling up sick-leave absences as a way to collect more overtime pay.
Reid did not return a call to the Sun. But Sisolak said he has no intention of keeping quiet.
“I’m going to continue to speak out,” he said. “I’ve got a First Amendment right to speak, and taxpayers have a right to know what’s going on. I’m not going to be intimidated. If anything, this will only make me more outspoken.”
Contract negotiations are closed. And typically, both parties agree not to discuss the talks publicly.
As a commissioner, Sisolak does not take part in the county’s negotiations, he said, so he should be free to offer his opinion on related issues.
Any information he has gathered about contracts and firefighter compensation, he said, “comes from the phone calls and e-mails from constituents, and people coming up to me in the grocery store telling me how they feel.”
“I don’t even know the dates of negotiations, much less what the ground rules are,” he added. “All I know is what’s out there in the public, and I know common sense. If that’s a violation of some bargaining practice, then it’s silly.”
In an e-mail Thursday, Ryan Beaman, union president, would only say that the union will “respect the established ground rules.” The union’s attorney did not return a call for comment.
In the letter to Reid, the attorney cited two rulings by the Employee-Management Relations Board, a state board that resolves bargaining conflicts. In one, related to Reno firefighter negotiations in 1996, an understanding was established during contract negotiations that parties “would not negotiate through the media.” The other case alleged that the firefighters union in North Las Vegas violated “good faith” bargaining by “dealing directly with the city manager and elected officials” instead of city-designated negotiators.
Sisolak said he didn’t see how either case related to him since he’s not part of the negotiating team.
He said one way to circumvent this issue would be to negotiate in public. “This is the public’s money we’re spending, it’s not our money.”
Although the County Commission is not known for coming together easily on issues, Sisolak has some support. Commission Vice Chairwoman Susan Brager said she would never tell another commissioner to keep quiet.
“We’re all independent of each other, we all have different styles of doing things, and for me to tell a commissioner ‘I don’t want you to be talking,’ wouldn’t be right,” she said. “Does this mean in meetings we shouldn’t say certain things? We have a right to say what we choose to say.”
The Sun story that quoted Sisolak reported county firefighters call in sick almost twice as often as rank-and-file county employees and at about four times the rate of management. Firefighters who call in sick are replaced by colleagues who are paid overtime.
Sounds like the firefighter's Union is trying to make Mr. Sisolak an offer he can't refuse (Godfather music playing in the background)
I am concerned that the Henderson firefighters are taking on too much stress. For example, I saw a very young fireman walking from Pollo Loco on Stepanie with 2 large buckets of chicken. He was headed to a giant truck idling in the parking lot. Tinted windows obscured how many brave firemen were in the truck.
What if the young man fell down under the weight of the chicken? He'd have to take sick leave, so one of his partners could get time and a half. It's time we allow delivery of chicken to the stations and the athletic clubs, so the hard working firemen can study for their GED's while making over 100G a year.
It's the least we can do..
Does anyone know where we can see a copy of the County's current contract with the firefighters? It seems like this should be a matter of public record, but I can't find it anywhere.
I'm sure the Union has the support of Andy Stern. "Workers of the world, unite!"
joan; It should be here;
http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/...
This should be a nice bloodbath. All you have to do is look at the pay to see that there's a problem.
firemen should should make $50k-$75k...
period...
end of story...
anything more than that hurts the community...
period...
end of story...
all i know is...
if ronald reagan could fire all of the air traffic controllers...
clark county can fire all of the firemen...
and make no mistake boys and girls...
you could fill all of the positions in a week...
2 weeks tops...
What happened to the open meting law? Can UNION meetings be exempt?
I think that any contract resulting from an illegal Meeting should be void.
Of course the fire fighters dont want anything or anyone to stip the gravy-train.
If the 700 firefighters in Clark County were paid $75,000 a year instead of about $200,000 a year, it would save about 87.5 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
How much are the battalion chiefs making? One guy made over $600,000 in 2008. Firefighters don't care if teachers get laid off. They don't care if school programs are cut. Offer them $75,000 a year. Take it or leave it.
Isn't time we privatize this service?
The government should stop collecting union dues for the union & put an end to collective barganing.
Maybe they should move the negotiations out of state! They will not find an unbiased opinion here.
Interesting; I googled firefighter pay, and clicked on wicki answers... somebody's been very naughty!
Keep it up Steve...
The First Amendment give you the right of FREE SPEECH.
Sounds like the "Truth Hurts"
Please stay on this, Mr. Sisolak. Please let us know if you're threatened. Please don't sell out. I don't think I can take one more sleazy politician right now.
However, I do think you might be wrong about the sick leave. Since the firefighter shifts are so long, a day off is far more hours than for somebody who works a regular day shift.
But what they make, with or without sick leave, really sticks in my craw. And I bet very few would be able to survive teaching if they tried it.
Couldn't be there's any gender bias going on with firefighter pay and teacher pay differences, could there? Between teacher pay and school police?
No, that couldn't be. I'm sure I'm just "playing the gender card."
Rory Reid is running for Gov but cannot return a call to the Sun? WOW! Closed door negotiations with the firefighters union? WOW! Thank goodness we have Mr. Sisolak to keep watch for the folks. Is Rory still amongst the living? Don't let off the gas Mr. Sisolak!
Sisolak just needs a dental set of tools to wire his jaws shut till the recession is over.
How does the public really know the truth? Politicians like Sisolak spout off in the media during negotiations for a reason-to garner public hostility during contract negotiations.
The same is done with the teachers and state workers.
You all don't make a peep when the economy is good and you are making 60 dollars an hour working construction while the public workers make less than half that.
You see a guy buying a bucket of chicken and you assume he is not doing his job.
Firefighters work 24/7-do you? They have to be available to save your homes and lazy butts and you have the gall to make judgement?
Those of you who complain did not mind when hundreds of firefighters died trying to save lives during the Twin towers disaster-and you will hail them again if there is ever a disaster in Las Vegas.
Your hindsight is destructive and borne of ignorance.
We don't have all the facts and details just what some blowhard politician spouts off to the media.
And you trust a politican's word??
You can't have it both ways.
The media should be more responsible and get ALL the facts not just dirty inuendos and political rhetoric.
Isn't it great about how their contract works? Game the system for millions? Great! Talk about it? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Yeah, let them keep their benefits, pay SALARY of $50,000-$75,000, with hazard pay for actual fires attended. No overtime for being "on call" even if you're sleeping at the station.
I PROMISE, qualified people will still line up around the block for a shot at the job.
Lame argument.....
There are 1,000's of soliders that died for us.
Do we pay them on avg over 150K a year in wages and benefits?
There are 1,000's of taxi cab drivers that have died in the line of duty. Do we pay them on avg over 150k a year in wage in benefits?
Do firefighters on a very rare occassions may have to put life and limb on the line? Yes.....Does that mean they should get paid outrageous money? Hell....no.
CNEV, if you are a firefighter, you have some conceptual errors. The people of LV understand the need for firefighters. It's probably the most prestigious blue collar job. We just can't afford to pay you those salaries.
If you aren't a firefighter, you have bigger problems.
By SgtRock
" Lame argument.....
There are 1,000's of soldiers that died for us.
Do we pay them on avg over 150K a year in wages and benefits?"
**********
Military contractors (like Blackwater) are paid obscene salaries while US soldiers get squat.
But these firefighters salaries are w a y out of line.
Keep up the good work, Sisolak. I don't remember if I voted for you last time - but I sure will the next time. You have been looking into various things since the beginning of your term and brought a lot of things to light. You get the facts and bring them into the discussions. Thank you.
Wiz, lower case please.
The firemen know what they are doing, they have been doing since CCFD started. Anybody that has lived in Vegas for the past 50 years can tell you about CCFD, LVFD, NLV. Henderson hasn't been around long enough. True they do die, rescuing cats off the power lines, and coming in contact with cancerous smoke while bar-b-quing steaks on the outside grill at the firehouse. Lots of pulled muscles waxing the trucks. We are talking about some real hero's here. And they wonder why this is the respect they get.
"Do firefighters on a very rare occassions may have to put life and limb on the line? Yes.....Does that mean they should get paid outrageous money? Hell....no."
I think they should make good money because they DO put their lives on the line. And you need top of the line, specially trained men/women working out of the firehouses near the Strip because those people DO earn their salaries in case there is a fire. (Think the MGM fire years ago). A highrise fire is fought differently than a house fire. But I'd like to see some of these 6 figured Vegas fire fighters stationed in the neighborhoods fight a fire in some eastern city when the temperature is 20 below and they can't get the hydrants to work, the water in their trucks freeze and they try to fight a fire with icicles hanging off their helmets, their clothes and equipment. Yeah it gets super hot in Vegas but NO - not all Vegas firemen should make 6 figure salaries.
Sisolak for PRESIDENT!
Don't get bullied by these thugs Steve and it's about time someone with balls shut them up. This group is out of touch from reality and still think like the good old days when there is plenty of money. Remind them about the once powerful autoworkers union and what happened after the the companies went broke. Their lame excuse of dangerous job is old stuff and they can not justify that outrageous pay they are getting from our tax money. There are lots of unemployed people who will take that job for less than half of their pay.
cnev;
Nice arguments, I would rather save my own house and family, but on the off-chance my home catches on fire, I pay you to show up, period. I don't pay for you and your thugs to threaten me or Sisolak. The fact that he is asking questions doesn't make him a bad person any more than you wearing a blue shirt makes you a hero.
It amazes me how you so quickly try to align firefighters with teachers. They make 25-50% of what you guys do-before you throw in your extra pay, call-backs, on-call etc. If you want to compare yourself, how about comparing yourself to police. They are targets everyday of the week and they don't get paid to sleep or workout. I work 24/7 as a small-business owner with employees and I don't make what you guys do and I thought your pay was outrageous when times were good and still are! I had the chance to be one of you, but chose not to, not because I couldn't handle it (like you suggest when anyone questions your outrageous pay), I don't want to belong to a union.
As to your sense of entitlement that you, attempting to align yourself with FF's in NYC, should ever take a cut in pay? I say cut, cut, cut. If you want to say that you made 50% of the private sector, guess what, we all took pay cuts, but not you so-called heroes.
America's 2 Trillion $ Hole: http://online.barrons.com/article/SB1268...
It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt!!.. It is nice to know the human element is alive and well in this community. Thanks for the job security LV Sun!!..
Keep it up Sisolak. You have my support. These unions are an incredible drain on the economy. And look at the "gridlock" between LV and their unions. Firefighter pay is outrageous. And there's a huge discrepancy between firefighter pay and police officer pay.
hang in there Mr. Sisolak
If firefighters are heroes, and heroes make sacrifices, then why aren't our local firefighter "heroes" willing to make some sacrifice with their salaries? Especially when, I don't know, children might benefit by having more money for their schooling? Or the elderly might be slightly more secure in their final years? Frankly, for you guys to sit around and abuse the term "hero" based on the actual people who actually died in 9/11 is nothing short of obscene. All you're doing with this is sucking on their glory.
If the government would stop collecting the union dues for the union the bosses would have to shake down their own members. Would they pay?
they should do what is done back East and have all suburban fire dept.'s as volunteer only,
All Mr. Sisolak needs to know is that the people who elected him appreciate that he is on our side. The negotiations should be made public. Its our money!!! We are tired of back room deals!!!
Fire them all and then rehire another group that will work for reasonable wages and benefits.
Tundra, it's your comment that removed all doubt.
P.S.
Heroes my ass
Maybe the firefighters need to change their uniforms to brownshirts and jackboots.
DOES IT HURT YOU TO READ IN CAPS? DO YOU NEED A TISSUE? SHOULD I CALL YOUR MOMMY?
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity!. It just keeps getting better.... WOW!..
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhh!
Someone call the Waaaambulance!!
On the surface it looks like the firefighters do have a little, "I'll take off so you can get OT pay then you get sick so I can get OT pay" game going on.
Before the county put that suspicion out in the public they should have started investigating what the firemen who call in sick so their comrades can get OT pay are doing on that so called "sick" day. I bet a very basic investigation would reveal sitting home sick is not norm.
Fire them and rehire, there is MORE than an abundance of souls willing to train and wor for half to two-thirds of what they work the system for now......just like Reagan did
ecm - I looked at the website you posted & found collective bargaining agreements for teachers and SEIU county employees (though both were out of date), but I couldn't find anything for the firefighters. Shouldn't this be an open record? We should all be entitled to see the terms of the present CBA, after all we're the ones paying the big bucks to those who are paid under it. Joe - does the Sun have a copy? Can you post a .pdf?
When I lived in Orange County, CA I knew a firefighter in my neighborhood. I was amazed at how nice is house was and all the "extra stuff" he had. So I get to know this guy and eventually he starts telling me about the "scam" (his words) that firefighters have involving overtime. He used words like "easy money" and "ripoff" to describe how the system is rigged for firefighters to make double or even triple their base salary. These are his words how the system worked:
FF's have set days they work per month -- usually 12. These are 24hr shifts. As in most public sector jobs FF's get alloted sick days they can use. As FF's got through their careers, they accumulate massive amounts of sick days. They do not get the max credit for all the sick days upon retirement. As in most public sector jobs the majority of the sick days need to be used up before retirement.
What starts to happen is the FF's within 5 years of retirement start taking their sick days. So you have huge numbers of older firefighters calling in sick/taking personal days. Because fire stations must be fully staffed per law and public safety concerns, the "sick" firefighters must have their shift(s) covered. This where the massive overtime comes in. MY FF neighbor called it the $1000 payout -- because every shift he worked in this manner was about a $1000 extra.
So do the math. My neighbor told me that when he was in 20's in the FD he worked on average about 75 extra shifts a year. That's an extra $75k a year he made a year on top of his base salary. He said he never made below $150k a year for about 10 years. He knew guys that worked well over a 100 extra shifts in a year!($100k on top of base)
In his 30's the OT slowed down a bit because of family and kids, yet he still managed about 50 extra shifts a year ($50k on top of base). Of course his base pay had gone up so much the need to work so much OT lessened. So he's in 40's now and is about 10 years out from retirement. He works OT as needed -- about 25 extra shifts a year. Sometimes he will take a bunch of shifts to pay for a trip or if there's a major home expense.
His words were the system is "rigged" from the outset to provide FF's to make tons of money from OT as possible. Management (his words again) uses the excuse that hiring more FF's to handle the OT will result in greater expenses due to health benefits and pension costs in retirement. The reality is that management all started as FF's, took advantage of the OT scam, and know exactly how the system is set up. The OT is a considered "part of system for being in the brotherhood of FF's." It has been this way going back well over 50 years.
I have one request for all FF's sure to comment on here. Without revealing your name, please state your base salary for 2009 and how much OT you earned for the year. Rip in to me as much as you want -- but have the decency to tell us all your total compensation for 2009.
To Joan,
The firefighters have in their contract that it NOT be posted on the county website. I have seen it posted before, and maybe Joe Schoeneman can get it posted again. I know that Jon Ralston posted it once.
Why is Commissioner Sisolak the ONLY one speaking up? Reid is running for governor? We deserve to know where they all stand. Is Sisolak the only one with any guts?
The FF's are running a scam as bad as Madoff's and should be investigated.
!!NEWSFLASH!!
This is NOT "back East".
This is NOT Orange County.
Reagan is dead.
Contracts and salaries HAVE been posted.
When will we see the contracts for the likes of Betsy Fretwell? Virginia Valentine? Doug Gillespie? Rod Jett? Mike McClary? Oscar? Sisolak? et al?
Do not be intimidated, Steve. The citizens that you represent appreciate your efforts.
Keep up the heat Steve!
Way to go Steve. Don't be intimidated. The public supports you. The only ones who don't are the ff you are calling to the carpet.
Public employee unions can get their union freindly politicans elected because voter turnout in local elections is so low.
Politicans write the law so they can change the system if the right people get elected. Too bad so many mistake their head of hair for character.
I'm pickin up with JimmyHoofa is puttin down. The same thing happened in Plano, Texas. The same deal with the $1000 overtime shifts and old timers packin it in 5 years too soon. I'm sure it happens here too. All you need to do is read the article about how the firefighters use the most sick time.
Fire the firefighters and rehire them at a reasonable salary. I know you can't but keep in mind the corruption the next time the contract comes up!
Why don't we care about Sisolak salary?? or the fact that he lives in a Huge house in Spanish Trails.... OR Ms. Lori Ann Sisolak.... countless liens and foreclose on her Million Dollar House???
You know its not even the fact that the so called firefighters out here make 100k plus a year. Or even abuse the sick leave. It's the fact that they make stippens in which every time they transport a patient to the hospital they get a little extra in there paychecks. They will cancel AMR or Medic West and take the patient to the hospital, so that they can get the bonus. And then the city/county fire dept. will then DOUBLE bill you. By that I mean they charge you in taxes, then they send you or your insurance company a bill!
Firefightes are OVERPAID
Privatize them all.
Use to be heros now they are thieves
fireLVfire.. you must of took the test and didn't pass..... Sorry its not as easy as people think it is..if it really was a GED or HS Diploma kinda job.. EVERYONE WOULD BE A FIREFIGHTER..... last time I check every time the LVFD makes a transport the CITY gets money..so why wouldn't we wont our City to make money???
well actually there SAHM i am a ex FDNY so your I didn't pass your test out here. not saying that the city doesn't need to make money. But double billing? Tell me why the firefighters out here need to make 100k+ a year and get bonuses on every transport. Now I know that on the ems side of FDNY they don't getg a bonsus for every transport they do! so go back and reread my post there hero. I am pointing out double billing and bonuses that I am questioning there fruit cake
Would someone please tell me why the firemen can't work four 10 hour days? Why do they have to have the schedules they have in this day and age in the west. I realize there might be reasons in the east where there are a lot more fires.
So why?????? This alone would save tons of overtime.
Maybe AMR and Medic West shouldn't always be UTR ? I'm happy to know that when I call 911.. a first responder will ALWAYS be there... its really not about the money..and there is no double billing ... I was transported by a City Rescue and was ONLY billed by AMR ( who does the LVFD billing) Might wanna get your facts straight on that one......
People while I agree the FF's are way overpaid, we should look at the UNIONS. They are the heavy handed group that comes in and demand all these riduculous deals that leave them with big time cash in their pockets at the cost of the taxpayer. The weak politicians we elect are the problem too as they give in. I am not a fan of Mr. Sisolek because of his girlfriend, but this is a really good opportunity for me to change my opinion about him based on how he handles this. The girlfriend is a big time friend of the Henderson FF's so this must make intersting dinner conversation! And the general public wonders why the states we live in are in such economic failure. These union contracts payout huge dollar amounts for retired teaches, fire fighters, UAW etc... Research this for yourself and see what some of these people make as retired union members. You will be shocked!! Keep fighting Mr. Sisolek for the people who elected you. That would be change we can believe in!!
Thank you Commissioner Sisolak for showing some political courage. You have my vote. I appreciate the job firefighters do and think they should be paid fairly ... but $100-200k a year without even needing a college degree, a silly overtime system, obscene amounts of time off, retire at 45 with full benefits for life... Ridiculous. And give me a break those of you who will respond that they run into burning buildings and have a tough life... Whatever... When 10,000 people show up to apply for a single firefighter job opening that should tell you something. They get more time off in a year than I've had in the past 10 years. No one can tell me public dollars couldn't be spent better on teachers, roads, etc. Local employee wages and benefits are eating into the funds available for other public services in NV and now most of them are only working 4 days a week. Next time you wait 3 hours at a DMV to register your car think about whether you would support dropping a firefighter salary from $150k to $100k to hire that extra DMV worker. If the public knew what was going on they would be outraged, unfortunately most people are apathetic and as a result these public unions have a lot more power than they should. It is unusual for a local elected official to call it like it is and that is why I applaud Sisolak.
I've said before...from what I understand, there's a waiting list of qualified applicants to become firefighters. If that's the case, we should very easily be able to reduce the salaries. If the demand for the job wasn't there, the pay would be justified. I don't think it's surprising that they take more sick time (in hours) because of their long shifts, but they shouldn't get anything extra for overtime unless they've made up all of their sick time.
Not a knock on the profession, but we're in this financial mess and their pay seems way out of whack. We need to address these extremes and move forward on issues that are worthy of being debated.
Here is the current CCFD contract!!
http://www2.lasvegasnow.com/docs/ccfd_co...
Fire them all and rehire at a normal private salary.
Simply put if you don't wan't the current level of service that your local FD provides then show up to the scheduled town hall meetings and let your voice be heard. Posting on these media sites really doesn't go anywhere other than if you just like to see your name (or fake name) in print. I as the majority of others who work in the fire service chose this profession because we care about our community and the people we serve. My base pay is not out of a line for Firefighters. The people who are jumping all over Firefighters for making to much are not looking at the full picture. I work my hours (56 hours per week) as the minimum for a base salary of 85,000.00 per year on 20 years employement. I am fine with working this schedule and being with my family the rest of the time. Its a matter of service level that the public wants. Don't ask me to take a pay cut and expect me to work overtime to still provide you with the same service. I enjoy my time with my family the same as you. If you don't mind waiting an extra ten minutes for emergency service after you call 911 (private ambulance service does not provide the same 4 -6 minute response time on average as FD (Look this up on the amount of Penalty fees the Privates pay to FD) then send me home at the end of my shift. I work overtime instead of a second job because it saves my department (taxpayers) money. When someone calls in sick as with any other job, then do not fill it with overtime as most work places don't. Close stations, run units short, and accept the reduction in service. All Local FD's provide the mandated staffing levels so the local governments can save money and still provide coverage to the People who live in our community as well as the many of thousands of tourists that contribute to our local economy.
It was ok when the tourist we're come with hundred dollar bills in their pockets. I was making twice as much in 07 than I am now at my job. Everybody has to cut.
SAHM: "there is no double billing...I was transported by a city rescue and was ONLY billed by AMR (who does the LVFD billing)" What part of double billing don't you understand? These rabid replies to defend the "heroes" are goofy. We, the taxpayers, pay our taxes so the first responders can be there with their goldleaf-adorned trucks; AMR billing you for LVFD is the second bill --- we're paying a bill for the service we pay to provide.
To myopinion: If you are on the job 20 years and making $85k, nobody would say a word. However, you mention that as base. Are you making an additional $85 k or more in OT. If a ff on the job for 20 years brought home $120k WITH OT, nobody would be angry. However, we all know that is not the case. Do us a favor and honestly answer these questions:
1) do ff trade shifts using sick time so others can get the OT?
2) do fd respond to calls to show the amount of calls they respond to, for increasing budgets?
3) do you honestly feel the incomes of ff in southern nevada are justified?
hey steve...
keep up the good work...
can you imagine that trial...
we would get to go over everything...
everything...
in painful detail...
in exhaustive detail...
one by one...
why were you sick...
did you go to the doctor...
why not...
what did you do...
what about this evidence to the contrary over here...
what about that over there...
and on and on and on...
all in public...
on tv...
man o man...
now that would be fun...
think the firemen have a pr problem now...
just wait til that trial...
like i said...
keep up the good work steve...
@ my opinion: I work 56+ hours a week too. Only difference is I actually work those hours and don't count hours sleeping at my office, shopping at Costco, making dinner or working out at the firehouse. Nor do I get a fat O/T rate for those extra 16 hours I'm doing those things. Firefighters like to drop these "facts" like "I work 56 hours a week," but don't divulge the true picture. If it's that simple, I'm sure you would have no problem going to a 8 hour a day work schedule 5 days a week, right? How many days (not hours) a week do you work? Most of us would love to work 2 days on and have the rest of the week off to hang with our families. As far as level of service, I'd rather have more private ambulances, hospitals, teachers, cops as a better and more efficient use of public dollars. Having 3 ambulance EMTs on duty for the cost of 1 firefighter sounds like a better service level to me than having 4 shiny $200,000 fire trucks show up for every heart attack that happens. You aren't even "fire"fighters anymore, 90% of what you guys do has nothing to do with fire and could be done way more efficiently. It's a crazy and ridiculous system we have. I get why you are trying to protect it, it is a great deal you have, just not a good deal for the public.
myopinion, that was the best post by a firefighter that I've read on this site. I don't necessarily agree with you, but it was respectful enough.
Is it true that there's a long waiting list to become a firefighter? I'm talking about people that have passed the tests and are qualified. I know of 2 guys that have been waiting for quite a while, but that's not a big enough sample size to be certain.
I think the market is suggesting that we can get the same level of service with lower salaries. If you quit because your pay is too low, it appears that there's a ready and capable person to take your place. Many of us work a similar number of hours each week, and sleeping and exercising are not included in those hours.
I'm really not trying to be disrespectful, just trying to think about this rationally.
Oh, and I've been to those town hall meetings, and the amount of crazy in those rooms make these boards look reasonable. Outside of that, it's the union reps, and others that aren't thinking about the problem objectively. I personally stick to writing letters/emails to my representatives, but they obviously don't get the media attention that town halls do.
WE GOT YOUR BACK SISOLAK.
I am a ff who made a great wage last year. I worked a tremendous amount of overtime to earn that salary. I called off sick for one shift in the past several years. Without the overtime my salary would be in the range that most believe is acceptable for what I do. The valley needs to hire more firefighters. It's not a scam controlled by unions or management. It is your commisioners and council that choose to staff the department based on reccomendations by the chief. You would cut all of our pay 25-50% by hiring for these positions rather than paying overtime. Overtime wasn't anywhere near this level 10 years ago when they properly staffed the departments. Now, this country/ community needs jobs! However, most politicians don't want to hire due to the fact that it is cheaper to pay the overtime. Meanwhile, they drag us through the mud because we are willing to work it. It's not our scam folks... It's your beloved politicians that have so effectively spun the facts that They have placed the blame on us. I come to work, do my job to the best of my abilities, work when they ask me to because I am greatful to have a job that I love. Unfortunately, in these times I get drug through the mud because of working too much. If we collectively say that's it... We aren't going to accept your overtime. This community would need to shut down dozens of fire stations. Hire, hire, hire...
hey myopinion...
was that some good ole fashioned fear mongering???
hmmm???
make no mistake boys and girls...
the time for change is now...
and the change that i would vote for would be to fire them all...
and start over from scratch...
things are clearly out of control...
when a union threatens to sue a public official for speaking his mind something has gone wrong...
terribly terribly wrong...
like i said...
if reagan could fire all of the air traffic controllers...
firing all of these clowns would be very very easy...
bet you could fill the entire staff in a week...
2 weeks tops...
got get 'em steve!!!
the only time i see any firefighters is when they're at the gym, working out and getting paid for it on our dime.
SAHM
I called the county to get an answer to your question. I was told, the commissioners, including Sisolak, get somewhere between $70,000 and $75,000 per year, depending when they were elected.
They get no call back pay
no overtime pay
no merit pay
no longevity pay
no education allowance
no uniform allowance
no, any of the other pay the firemen get. Maybe we should give the firemen the same contract that we give the commissioners?
@ my opinion, I agree with Zero overtime, shutdown station, brownouts, send me home I like my time off. Most of the posts on here are simply ingnorant responses.. If the brownouts happen or an increase in response time was to happen, a different kind of crying would start.I welcome Medic West and AMR to take over EMS, but most of them need an attitude adjustment before that happens. I live in Henderson so I know true professionals (HFD) will show up should my family have a need for medical emergency treatment or transport. The private EMS system has always and will continue to be a stepping stone for most EMT/Paramedics until they can get on with FD. So bring it on, take over EMS, and I will handle the rest of the public needs.It may take just take a little longer?.
@ mach1 ... what is a "great" wage? How many days off did you have last year ... was it 150 days off instead of 200 because you worked so much "overtime"? FF overtime is not like overtime for the rest of us ... more hours sleeping and washing your cars at the fire station, working out and shopping at Costco. The reason it's a problem now is because for the last 10 years your wages and benefits have shot up including so called "COLA" increases that have been twice the rate of inflation and other union negotiated contract perks. Local employees are eating up a larger percentage of govt budgets as a result of the excesses of the last 10 years and it is not sustainable. We need to change the state collective bargaining laws and maybe, just maybe, some semblance of sanity will return.
@ VegasRocks, You sound like someone who has made several attempts at testing for the FD but has not made it yet?. But, who knows, after Vegas bounces back you can try again????....
any fireman that calls in sick, MUST have a doctors excuse, or face WOP. Other state agencies have a policy that anything over 2 days, requires a doctors excuse, and if the boss thinks your abusing it, they can require one for even 1 sick day. These guys are a disgrace to the profession, and their bosses should be fired for allowing this to happen. I hope they put a quick halt to this, and Steve, don't be bullied, keep up the good work. Get rid of these unions, they are to no ones advantage.
Tundra---you need to come up with different one liners....
look at this boys and girls...
we have threats of lawsuits against those that speak up...
we have fear mongering...
we have tortured rationalizations...
w have lame attempts to brag...
you know what they say...
if it smells like crap...
it is crap!!!
bottom line...
firemen should make no more than $50k-$75k...
ever...
period...
end of story...
to make more harms the community...
period...
end of story...
and i sure as heck smell me some crap!!!
You truly don't understand our job if you think all we do is shop, wash our cars, and sleep. We shop for our lunch and dinner. Believe it or not we take a lunch/dinner break like every other employee. other employees go eat lunch out at restraunts, fast food, etc... We are always on call. Therefore, it is just easier to shop for food and cook it ourselves. Therefore, if we get called, which happens daily, we aren't occupying space or making more trouble for the staff than it's worth. It's just more efficient. We have one cook while everyone else is taking care of other details. We work out daily to be prepared physically for our job. Fight one fire and you will understand. We work 24 hr shifts because it is just more practical and efficient. You'd have to hire another shift to change the schedule. This is done in other cities and it is very expensive. Make it happen though, I'd rather go home and sleep all night... Trust me, it's not the same. As for COLA... All we try to do collectively is keep up with inflation. As the dollar inflates we attempt to keep pace so we are not technically losing money. Unfortunately, our unions throughout this great country have been desimated and the rest of the working population has not been able to keep pace. That is where the disparity has come from. You are probably right that we need to reset and evaluate what we could do to help our respective agencies. However, they aren't playing fairly. They are throwing us under the bus. When you truly evaluate the situation this is their making as well as ours. Probably even more so. They are the leadership that negotiates and signs these contracts. Yet, now we are the greedy ones because we don't want to do it exactly the way they want to. That's what negotiations are about. We think there is a lot of fat that could be trimmed before our wages. We also believe they are using our overtime, which we work because how they staff, against us. Not really fair. Cut the fat, hire to staff appropriately, than we will be more willing to talk pay cuts. They're wanting to cut pay and maintain overtime. I personally don't think that's right for the community, right for us, and definetly not right for those looking for work.
What happened to service before self?
This County is burning, but not from fire, rather it is burning from the greed and grotesque sense of entitlement shared by a lot of public safety workers.
You firefighters can shut your mouths regarding working hours, time away from family, etc. Go look up the most recent pay chart for Military members in a combat zone. It's a far cry from what you ass hats make.
As a Lance Corporal, I took home about $15,000 from my tour in Iraq. Days off? Didn't have one. Costco? I wish. So save your crying for someone who gives a damn.
Nobody should get rich serving the better good of a community or the better good of the country. Your service should be centered on the people you serve not yourself.
The only thing more outrageous than your wages, is your reasons behind your defense of said wages.
Nice bluff by the corrupt Fire Fighters union, Sisolak is basically being accused of not bargaining in good faith. No charges can be filed since the commisioner isn't included in the negotiating commitee, nor is there a conflict of issues. Now Reid is the one negotiating?, this ought to be interesting,lets see how he takes care of his Mormon
Fire Fighter buddies. The more the good ol Mormon boys make the more the church gets in tithing, so you know he's gonna take care of his
Mormon church indirectly sort of speak. What a crooked system we have in this valley at the expense of the taxpayers. Just remember in November who gave the crooked Fire Fighters thier money and don't elect the guy from revenge of the nerds.
To Steve10, You are right. It is time I stepped aside for a less experienced and less able man.
I served in the service as well. I loved my time in the service and appreciate those those that make that commitment. With that said, this ain't the service. I got out of the service because I qualified for wellfare and food stamps when I was on active duty. I was deployed more than I was home. I was happy to do that for what I believed in but I wasn't willing to make a career out of it. Go visit the local VA. I've seen homeless shelters better taken care of. That just isn't right. Ask yourself why that is... We are the richest country in the history of the world. We won't take care of each other or those who take care of us. That's why we have a union. Do we need to consider our agencies situations? Absolutely! And we are... It just takes time.
The fire department has testing? Judging by the FFs I know that test can't be too hard. I think the real test is "who do you know in the fire department who can get you a job since 10,000 are applying for one position."
Actually, I am a FF, how else would I have so much time to make these posts all day long.
Tundra,
What makes you think I am a man.....lol...The Name?...lol
Many women post under men's names because the moment a women says something a man doesn't like, they immediately say she has small breasts, stretch marks, or two ton tilly that couldn't catch the eye of a stunning fire fighter in a cosco food line....etc....That's why JK Rowling uses her initials.
Men always focus on sex when debating with the opposite sex.
Have a good one, George Clooney
To Stev10, You gave me way too many details!!. I will keep thinking "your a man baby"!!..
Ok, Tundra...If it makes you feel good!
To VegasRocks, Keep testing, who knows you might see me in your future interview??. You can use your code name, so I can score you a little higher...
To Steve10, Thanks babe!!
Steve10, what makes you think Tundra is a man? The postings sound kind of effeminate to me.
to mach 1
I have been a ff for 32 years in a city slightly smaller than vegas. I would like to know why in vegas that they just don't take trucks out of service when ff's book of sick. It's common for us to have 10 engine companys out when there is a lot of sickness going around. thanks
To VegasRocks, Don't ask Don't tell??..
Ok Tundra, you are the experienced las vegas "fire fighter", we get it. However, I am still waiting for one of you to answer a few questions. Maybe mach1 because he seems somewhat reasonable.
1) do ff trade shifts using sick time so others can get the OT?
2) do fd respond to calls to show the amount of calls they respond to, for increasing budgets?
3) do you honestly feel the incomes of ff in southern nevada are justified?
Again....lets join together and vote against whomever the union supports. The reason they have power is large numbers. Well there are way more fed up Las Vegas citezens then their are fire fighting puppets who need to look to someone to find out who they "want to support".
Looking forward to the answers to the questions above.
I'd also like to know if it's true that there's a waiting list to become a firefighter. Is there a group of people that have passed the tests, but can't get a job?
EMS services is 85% of what the fire department does. For those of you that don't know what EMS is that is medical services.
If you want to stop them from making so much money then the next time you need medical services call the ambulance company directly. Not only call the ambulance company but, make sure you tell them that you don't want the fire department to assist.
My taxes are high enough. I once appreciated the 9-1-1 service. But, bottome line is it is too expensive. Ambulance company personnel get the same training. Why not just call them.
I have a choice. I will use my choice to call the ambulance company first and make sure I tell them not to call the fire department. As far as I'm concerned the fire department has priced themselves over my budget. The last time I had to take my wife to the hospital I drove her there anyway. And, it worked out great.
My choice. My decision. The ambulance company number if I choose to need those types of services is next to my phone. 9-1-1 is a last resort for me. Again, my choice. My decision. It isn't that I don't want 9-1-1 it's just that my taxes are high enough and now that I know they are gaming the system I feel like they are gaming me. I feel robbed.
I'm supporting Sisolak on this one. If the fire department union wants to make threats. I don't need them. And, I have a choice.
Hey Unsilent, how have you been?. Sounds like a few questions for Mr. Knapp!. But lets see?.
1. A shift trade is you work for me and I work you at a later date. No need for overtime... Sick time is different. I do not question someone being sick?. If someone is sick or on vacation it is filled with overtime.
2. First we are dispatched by a fire alarm office. SWA and AMR work for the city or county we are the authority on all incidents and they can't cancel the FD.
3. You get what you pay for. I do not make anywhere near what the paper and media are saying. I am blessed to have what I do and live within my means. I am willing to give up all increases and would vote for a pay cut to save my co-workers jobs. I do not depend on overtime nor do I think I deserve it. Bottom line units will be shutdown and or stations if things continue the way they are!..
I hope I answered your questions. Yes, there are those who take advantage of the system, but that is up to the upper management to take of . I fall in mid level management....
You may not question someone being sick, but I do, especially since I know ff who do it.
If you get what you pay for, then we have the best ff in the country. I would think some ff across the country would disagree.
Yes you did answer the questions. If we know the system is being "gamed", and you know it, then upper management knows it. And nothing is being done about it.
I hope you are seeing why people are fed-up with it, and the only ones defending it are the ones who don't want it to change.
Another mess.. Thank you rory! You go man. I never even made close to 200,000 a year and I was the nations first president!!!!!!! What a #@$@# joke Nevadans.
To unsilent, I hope if you and all the people are feed up , change it. I do not "game" the system. If you know someone who does it, report them!. I do not defend the truth. I defend lies and non factual information. You sound like you know the system well enough to drop some names.
If someone is abusing sick leave they are written up by upper management. I do not investigate nor is my business why they are sick? .. (HIPPA LAW)..
Maybe Mr. Knapp can follow them around when they call off sick?.
I will be waiting for your response.....
So I say to you, help make the change and right the wrong.
Since we are being so open, what do you do for a living , do you make too much, have you ever called off sick when you were not?..
I will be looking for your rebuttal....
Get rid of the firefighters. Why is it that federal employees who work for the Interior, National Park service putting out fires make 10.00 an hour?!? Isnt that the same work that these greedy, and worthless firefighters do? I think putting out fires is univeral. Take 10.00 an hour clark county firefighter or leave.
Wildland Firefighter (Range or Forestry Aid/Technician) Interior, National Park Service US-NV-Throughout Neva $10.00+/hr
NEWS FLASH FOR FIREFIGHTERS!!! The refrigerator has been invented. You don't need to take a 2 MPG piece of equipment to grocery store. You can do what most people do - shop on your own time and put the food in a refrigerator or pantry. What a concept; not being paid to shop.
Tundra, I can only speak for myself when I say that I'm not paid with taxpayer money. We have every right to question how our tax dollars are being spent, you do not have the right to question how a private business spends their money. They should simply go out of business if they spend more than they take in.
Get defensive if you'd like. My problem is that I don't trust anyone inside the system to report the people that are gaming the system. Taxpayers just look at the numbers, the job requirements, and the supply of eligible replacements and realize that overall compensation is much too high.
I understand you being defensive, but I think if you take some time to look at this from the taxpayer's (non firefighter) perspective, you'll see how ridiculous this argument is. What's even more ridiculous is when another firefighter threatens to reduce the service level if the pay/overtime is cut.
Look, I respect what you do, but you don't deserve a blank check. You deserve what the market is demanding, which is why I ask if there's a waiting list to become a firefighter. I think there is, which would suggest that we could reduce the salaries just enough so that we have a balance of supply/demand. And if people are gaming the overtime/sick time, it's simply criminal in my opinion. It's theft. And it's happening when our schools are seeing huge cuts, and every other service is being cut. It's a slap in the face, if it's in fact happening.
To improve, I have said all along I agree make the cuts. I am being defensive ?. I have agreed with most, cut if need be stop the threats and start cutting. I am not an union offical. If a proposed cut comes before me I am only one vote.
Like Mr. Sisolak said tonight, take a pay cut or lay-off's and or both. Do it!.
Make up the signs "Fire station closed". I will hang them!..
To answer a few questions... There are guys gaming the system. Just like any system they are in place for good intent. Our unions fought for them to protect our members. However, certain people come to believe ts their right to use/ abuse the system. These are the minority and typically gravitate to certain stations where the mutual accountability rather than the official accountability won't touch them. These are the guys making us all look bad and if I could, I would fire them!!! Second, when we get called, we respond. That number is counted whether or not we press on scene. It's rediculous to say otherwise and it's a fabrication by the ambulance guys attacking us. When an EMS call comes in we are responsible for the scene, the patient, etc whether we show up or not. Private ambulance is not equiped or trained to handle anything greater than a medical response. Many times we show up just because we are suspicious of the notes. Several times, we have shown up after being cancelled by the ambulance and they weren't even on scene yet. They care about their bottom line. They cancel FD so when they can't meet their time restriction they aren't held accountable. It makes absolutely zero differnece to us if we get on scene or not. Finally, I do think we are currently overpaid. That is due to overtime and the way our representatives have decided to staff these departments. It's not due to the base pay though. If overtime was cut, I would personally take a 50% cut. Then I would make a fair wage for what I do. However, currently I work my shift and about 33% of an unfilled vacancy. I work it cause I enjoy my job and the department encourages me to work it. They even base promotions on whether or not you work your fair share of OT. I know many people just don't like ffs... Bt if they staffed the departments like they did 10 years ago we would need over 300 new ffs in the valley, There would be no overtime budgets, and it would be a rarity that anyone below a chief officer would make over 100k.
What a waste of time...the cat is already out of the bag. Nobody is buying the "story" Firefighters are even worth 50% of what they are paid. In the case of paramedics, you are paid multiple times more than what the AMR people make from the reports. How is that justified?
This is shameful. The situation is so ridiculous and has gone on for so long the question is, why did it take a Steve Sisolak to blow the whislte on this? How long has this rip-off of the public being ongoing? and it is a rip-off make no mistake about it.
All of you could be replaced starting today and the savings to the taxpayer would be staggering. I vote we move ahead with doing just that. I am tired of reading the nonsensical posts from firefighter trolls. enough.
As for shutting down stations like other citys do... Our departments aren't staffed like other citys. If we shut down a station there isn't another station very close to respond in a timely matter. Our organizations goal is to get on scene in less than 6 minutes. That is due to the fact that brain tissue dies in 6 mins or less and fires flashover and kill everything inside between 7-8 minutes. If we shut down a station we know we cannot meet those time lines. These goals save lives. You can check the numbers yourself. When a Henderson or city of las Vegas fire rescue (these departments transport patients to the er) is the primary unit on a cardiac arrest the patient survival rate is about 23%... when a private ambulance is the primary vehicle the survival rate is less than 12%. This is due to quick response, cutting edge technology, and what I believe superior experience and training. In summation we can brown out units and cut overtime. However, something is going to be
lost. Private ambulance will still be there but they have difficulty getting on scene in less than 12 minutes. 90% of the calls that'll do. But when it's life or death it is pointless to call them at those response times. If the place where I live starts shutting down units, not covering EMS, I'm moving to Henderson. I don't plan on using them either... However, I know from my experience what the other options are.
The union thugs have turned public servants into greedy pigs.
Ya well maybe we need to invest in on site fire suppression systems and teach more people first aid and cpr. Then we need to make things out of fire retardant materials.
Instead of sleeping and shopping maybe the wonderful firefighters could spend more time educating and prevention? Like when we were all kids back when they were paid a normal salary or volunteered?
To Mach1, Time to call it a night. The ignorant has resurfaced......
new york steaks, prime rib, big screen t.v. and
several stops daily at the donut store.
i'm gonna be a fireman...$200,000 a year, health, dental...
work eight hours ( maybe ) and get paid for 24...
where do i sign?
I guess I'd like to see the firefighters get their salaries/sick time down to a manageable level. A top out salary after 10-12 years of $75,000 per year is reasonable, and limit their sick leave to make them accountable. Steve Smith, the Fire Chief should be fired for this abuse of sick leave by his men and women!
No one had a problem with Firefighters pay 5 years ago. I don't think anyone has a problem with Firefighters pay today($15.47-$25.48)
People are upset to see Firefighters making over 100K. A lot of people are out of work, and our Country is in a diff time. I wish the County would hire more Firefighters.
Hiring more Firefighters would cost the County more money, but at the same time I think it will put money back into the County.
The Goverment is trying to create jobs to stimulate the economy, and the county already has 200 positions that need to be filled. We need to spread the wealth. Maybe the County will break even if they hire more Firefighters.
It will cost more to pay for Benefits, but 200 people can be paying taxes, and will be buying more things.
Instead of bashing Firefighters, you need to go to the County and tell them to fill the 200 vacancies. People are losing jobs, and we have a huge shortage, thats making Firefighters work OT.
I can't believe the County and City our considering laying off Firefighters, that would cause even more OT. People are upset because Firefighters are working OT and making over six figures. I am a toped out Firefighter and I make $75,000 a year with no OT.
Tundra/mach1, I do want to say that I appreciate the conversation with you. You guys seem reasonable, even though we probably disagree on some issues. I know you're getting slammed, but I want to reiterate that I personally respect the job you do, I just see other departments (education, primarily) that are severely lacking in resources, and you guys are an obvious target for cuts. Too bad that a few bad apples spoil the bunch, because I'm sure that most guys are hard workers, just trying to provide for their families.
Obviously a heated and emotional debate, but I appreciate you keeping a level head.
Thank God I don't pay taxes out there. What..an..absolute..ripoff. My word Las Vegas, wake up and stand up!!
Fire the firefighters.... seriously. What are they going to do? They have no marketable skill set and minimal education. No offense to UPS truck loaders, but you might have some competition if it actually happened.
Statistically speaking a maintenance man who regularly climbs a ladder has a more dangerous job. Factory workers exposed to solvents have far worse long term health concerns.
The fact that the average Clark County Firefighter is paid more than the average family doctor is truly unbelievable.
Please don't think that in any way they are the most qualified for the job either. They are simply the most connected. Scoring a perfect score on the exams, college degrees, military experience, etc is worthless compared to a thoroughly mediocre candidate that has connections. Ask me how I know.
There are people born with a natural inclination to put themselves out there and risk everything to help others. Many such individuals would be more than content with a quarter of the nearly $200k a year the average Firefighter is making.
In more tangible terms, it is utterly ridiculous for an average firefighter to be able to afford a $400,000 house; have a spouse who says home with the kids; and a couple new European luxury vehicles in the driveway. On top of that they can retire in 20 years and be set for the rest of their lives.
I have no expectation for it to change, but I'm glad someone is standing up for what's right and decent. Thank you Steve Sisolak.
I think cops do more work for the money but that's an argument for another time.
I think this all started when the firefighters refused to chip in and help out in the bad times we have now. Their union boss had to be the biggest idiot not to realize that by refusing to help that the local fire departments would be put under a microscope.
To the firefighters, you are reaping what you're union boss sowed. This going en masse to a County Commission meeting and basically threatening Sisolak is not how you turn this around. You need to put the brakes on what your union is doing and put in the kitty. Otherwise there will be hell to pay for any politician that gives you guys a generous contract. Prepare to get big pay cutbacks.
First off I understand most people are upset seeing how much firefighters make. But you are all haters. How many of you if you made the amount they made would actually step up and agree to give up money.......ZERO! Dont hate because you are in a field that does not allow you make the amount they do. Perhaps you should have applied and taken the same tests as they did.
Go Sisolak!!!
Fire the unions, and start over.
To improve, Have a good weekend..
PEDAL TO METAL STEVE!
WHEN I SAW THE TV REPORT ON HOW MUCH SICK TIME OUR FIREFIGHTRS TAKE COMPARED TO OTHER PUBLIC AND PRIVATE EMPLOYEES. AND HOW MUCH THEY ARE COMPENSATED FOR WORKING FOR THEIR "SICK" BROTHERS. I WAS SICK!
GO STEVE S.
go get them SISOLAK.
Good video about Clark County Firefighters, very good info!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWg7Vzpod...
9if my house start on fire i take some clothes my animal my wife and move my car out in the street and watch house burn hell i have insurance and my loan will be paid off and walk away lol
good job, Tundra
One day you all will get the respect you deserve. Citizens like BrianK will never be happy or satisfied because he judges people by what he can't afford.
Stay Strong LVFD
You just got to love this, an agreement that the firefighters negotiations will not be discussed in the open!
Fire them all, put Sisolak in charge of privitizing the fire dept.
This guy is just what we need in government at all levels.
the most pathetic part of this whole thread...
is when these firemen attempt to threaten us...
with fear mongering...
with inferior service...
this must not stand...
this must be punished...
severely...
fire all of these clowns...
right now...
and start over from scratch...
you could fill all of the spots in a week...
bottom line...
firemen should make $50k-$75k tops...
ever...
period...
end of story...
if reagan could fire the air traffic controllers...
we sure as hell can fire these clowns...
they are not heros...
they are hurting the community...
this must not stand!!!
keep up the good work steve...
what the hell are doing about this rory...
if i had use large amount of sick i be FIRE. the maximum fire fighter should get paid 100.000. policeman are in more danger then firefighter
Wow I'm glad I came across this article. I was looking to move to Vegas to get away from this same thing that is dragging Michigan's economy down. If you don't believe me go to the Detroit free press and read all the articles of how cities in Metro Detroit. Some are getting ready to go bankrupt from police and fire pensions. The city I live in Westland Mi. Allows employees to calculate sick vacation holiday overtime and longevity pay into their retirement. Were paying on average 80,000 per retiree plus free health care. No cost to the employee. How's that for a nice little racket. Don't follow down the same path Michigan has gone down. You'll soon hear screams from your official's to pass mileage's to cover pension plans.
Typical Union response to try to "strong arm" Sisolak. What's next- mailbox bombing his house? Threatening phone calls? Thanks to this lone public employee, we, the public, now know what a rip-off LVFD wages are. Now, we need to put these people in their place by giving them a "living wage", NOT a luxury living wage!
If there are laws being broken, arrest, prosecute, and apply sentencing.If no rules are being broken vote on new laws that will apply to these problems. Until this happens don't blame the firefighters, I think given the chance, most people would do the same thing as long as they stay in the parameters of the laws.
Mach 1
How many people at your station are LDS? Be honest---Don't say-- you don't know....
Do you agree that their is nepotism in the fire department?
Sisolak should run for govenor! Oh wait, you can't get elected without the Mormons. Never mind. Maybe at least he can shed some light on how they control and rape the system via the Fire Dept., among other county and state institutions like school distict building contracts. Try looking into that...
Yes, I have a pretty good idea of how the system works. Yes I know it happens all over the country, but whats going on in Vegas is outrageous. I am not a "hater" who thinks ff should make $10 an hour. As I have said before, $80k including OT is fair to me. A high ranking ff on the job for 20 years making $120-$130 is fair to me. I have now read posts on here from guys at least saying they are ff (who knows for sure) at least admitting that guys game the system and their pay is too high.
As for me Tundra, I think I may have missed work once in the last two years for being sick. I do not work in the public sector,so what I make is not open for public discussion. If the fd was privatized, their salaries would not be my business at that point.
Now I do agree that lay-offs are not the answer, since OT is the biggest problem. If the wages truly are ($15.47-$25.48), that is fair to me. Its all the other things on top of that that are the issue. Renegotiate the contracts, and hire more ff. That would dissolve the OT and create jobs, which means more spending, which may spur the local economy. Or they need to privatize the fd.
The long term effects of cutting budgets for education, while a ff makes in the low to mid six figures is a recipe for disaster.
Dodger
Exactly! That is where the problem lies----the LDS...
Senator Reid, Rory Reid, Tom Collins, fire department (60 percent), Walt Rulffes (CCSD Superintendent), CCSD school board (at least 1/3 to 1/2), Gov. Gibbons, all have one interesting thing in common. They are LDS.
The LDS want large families with the mom staying home taking care of the children.Typical LDS doctrine. By providing such large salaries to the fire department, voted in by the the county commisoners, they can keep their wives home taking care of their 4 plus children on just one salary. It's pretty obvious. The ones that will write in and complain about me are LDS...Oh, and they will say they aren't LDS---They're Catholic-- Buddists----or Muslim....I do not hate LDS. I dislike the nepotism and favortism that they create.
I think it is time that we vote them out. Having a county, state, or country dominated by one group is sure to cause this type of scam. They will always be secretly making deals for their "people". Plus they have to pay 10 percent a month tithings to their church. 10 percent a month of 150,000 is $1500 a month.The church is all about money. And---they make sure that they get their ten percent a month. You are called in by the bishop if you don't make your monthly tithings. That's why you see all these fire fighters on here saying they deserve every penny they make. They are brain washed by their church that they are doing good for the church by making these grossly inflated salaries in order that they can pay their ten percent a month to the church. And the fire department is just the beginning.
Also the LDS believe that they are the ONE TRUE CHURCH, and they feel that they are entitled to rulership. They want to control and dominate. They are the fastest growing church today.
Kind of an admission of guilt don't you think when the fireman have no facts to dispute what Sisolak is saying so they try to keep him from saying anything. Sad.
As a retired union worker the firefighters, their leaders and attorneys sicken me. I notice when I am buying groceries there are atleast four firefighters buying groceries at one time for the one fire house they work at. They all seem to be somewhat ashambed of this and fail to look the other customers(taxpayers) in the eye. Does it take stupid,stupider,dumb and dumber to buy the groceries or can maybe two of these nit wits do the job of one?
@ hockeytown316, you are correct!!! This is not just a 'Las Vegas' issue. Its going on everywhere in the US. Except there's one problem....most FF in other cities dont make $200K a year!!!! Somewhere along the line, the unions managed to pull the wool over the taxpayers eyes. Do FF have a dangerous job: YES. Is there mental stress do to emergency calls: Yes. However, a fire is a fire, an EMS call is an EMS call whenther your in New York, Los Angeles, Phoenix or anywhere, USA with those FF making less than $100K yr DOING THE SAME JOB!! Come on, whats fair is fair.
To all, The fire station is a public building. I would like to challenge all of you get out from behind your computers and visit your local fire station. You can have one on one talk with the company officer, express your lack of trust, your disappointment and whatever else you would like to get off your chest.
To Homer, I will guarantee you, if you ever have discussion with me, you will have full eye contact!!!!.
Good Day to all......
So many haters until you need you need them.
In the last two years throughout 2008 and 2009, there were 79,000 firefighters who have been injured. That number did not change much in 2008 and 2009, but 10,380 firefighters have been reported to be exposed to infectious diseases; these include HIV, meningitis and hepatitis. In 2008, 103 firefighters gave their lives in the line of duty (http://www.eastforkfire.org). In 2009, there were 93 deaths, and so far this year there have been 10. Given the hazards of this career, a firefighter's hourly wage is comparable to a carpenter, electrician, ironworker or a garbage man.
The number of hours worked in a week is 56 hours and are made up of 24 hour shifts. For example, the work day begins at 8:00 a.m. one day and ends the next at 8:00 a.m. Firefighters also do not have the luxury of having holidays off, unless that individual takes personal time. Reduction of a work week from 56 hours to a 40 hour week requires hiring 25 percent more employees. The work schedule is broken into three shifts, A, B and C shift; a fourth shift would be needed to cover the days off, thus costing the tax payers more.
Minimum manning is one person per position with no extra personnel, i.e. floaters. A fire engine has one captain, one engineer, one fire paramedic and one firefighter EMT. If a vacancy occurs due to vacation or if they are sick, their vacancy is covered by an off duty firefighter who is paid overtime on their scheduled days off. Each firefighter who is hired on as an extra may be promoted to captain, and this costs an additional 11 percent. The fact is that minimum manning, one firefighter per position, is an eleven percent cost savings over their career.
The opinion that firefighters make too much money is a misunderstanding on the amount of hours worked. An employee working an 8 hour day, 5 days a week for one month works 160 hours. The employee may work 152 hours if there is a holiday in that month. A firefighter works 56 hour work weeks and 240 hours a month on average, without overtime. The media may be against this because they were ill informed on the matter of this subject; they may now want to rethink how they see the fire department "making too much money." The media may have been sheltered on the discussion of this topic because the facts stated are true, and they may not want to be seen as dumb or unqualified to voice their opinion on the matter of this topic, due to the fact that they are not as informed as much as they would have liked to been. The media is entirely wrong for saying the fire department makes way too money, they have no idea what it takes to risk their lives every day in line of duty just to put food on the table and clothes on their family's back. Firefighters show a great deal of strength, whether it is going into a burning building to rescue a family who is trapped inside or pulling someone out of their car in a horrible pile up. Firefighters work long and hard for their money and do not need to be penalized for what they go through. If anyone believes that firefighters are just "hose jockeys" they are sadly mistaken. So next time their house catches fire or their car erupts into flames, they can call one of their neighbors over to help put out the fire. If the media or anybody else wants to voice an honest and true opinion, maybe they should join the fire department and see what it takes or get the facts they need from someone who does risk it all everyday on the job.
Dear Ned,
I am very concerned you are looking at young firefighters carrying chicken. Maybe you need to get your GED because you can't even apply to be a fire department employee (and other jobs) unless you have graduated high school. I assure you they are working on becoming better at what they do to serve the public.
Its people like you that read everything in the newspaper and believe it. Henderson is not the same as Clark County. City of Henderson has lowest taxes on property, a motto to do more with less, and the Fire Department has the highest customer service rating of public or private organizations in the USA. Which means, if you were dieing in Henderson, you have a good chance of getting the help you need.
It is alarming how the media has fueled such hate towards those that really do a job they worked hard to get and love. Now, because of the economy and people losing their jobs,they are bitter. The media is using this opportunity to manipulate the public so that they have something to write about. By the way, all those firefighters are taxpayers themselves. If you want a good job they are hiring. However, I suggest you get your GED. It takes work to be successful.
Many fire fighters have so much time on their hands that they even have their own businesses on the side making another 80,000 plus a year. I don't know of any other profession where one can come home from a hard day of work in the public sector and begin working their own business on the side. Something strange about that.
Bottom line:----They make way too much money and have way too many benefits....
I am looking forward to see what happens to their new contract. If they still get away with their over time scam and pay increases, the public is going to be in more of an upraor than it already is.
Don't see as many of those fashion plates around town as of late.....
Our fireman have never lost a foundation from burning.
FireCaptWife...I got a question for you... Why does a Los Angeles City or County Fireman makes only 2/3rds of what a Clark County Fireman makes and he does fight fires(Wild fires,Refineries..etc)alot of them along with dealing with other disasters(Floods,Earthquakes..) and works more hours?Would it be a issue of manipulation of the system while committing a act of fraud?
93 deaths is nothing...don't you guys understand that 100 taxi drivers a year die in duty, a hundred lawyers dies from heart attacks, etc. This is a normal death rate, not excessive!
Firecaptwife, that's great if firemen deserve the colossal money they make. In that case you should have ABSOLUTELY NO COMPLAINTS if it costs your kids $20K-$30K to attend UCLA, for a degree that may not even be worth anything in today's economy, where the only growth industry is collection agencies. (Calif is broke and part of the reason is public employee salaries and pensions).
No offence,but course Firecaptwife is up in arms,she may have to wait 3 years for a new lexus instead of two.
manfromuncle 1
....and don't forget all the illegals that get all the freebies in CA....Salaries/pensions/illegals have brought CA down....
MR906, LACFF make a lot of money more then our FF do, and yes they do fight Wild fires and floods, so what is your point?
Manfromuncle1, CA is broke because you the people voted for the salaries, just like you voted for what our city employees make. am not saying what SOME FF do is right with the sick time, I think if they are caught they should have to pay it back if that is a game they are playing, it only takes a few bad apples to make the whole barrel rotten
hey firecaptwife...
how much did your husband make last year???
hmmm???
you can spin it anyway you wants to...
bottom line...
firemen should make $50k-$75k...
tops...
ever...
period...
end of story...
anything more hurts the community....
and make no mistake...
FIREMEN ARE HURTING THIS COMMUNITY!!!
PERIOD!!!
END OF STORY!!!
United 727, how wrong you are, the car I drive is 5 years old, we are a 2 income family and yes I work 40 hours a week sometime more, so dont bunch us all together, that we make a Crap load of money, but I can see that what you posted that you are one of the HATETS, O and by the way I drive a tahoe, we only buy American
Hey Birdiedtreamin, I will tell you how much my husband made if you tell me what you do for a living and how much money you made?
Calling people "haters" is extremely pathetic. It's the same defense that d-bags use when they're called out for being d-bags.
FireCaptWife, please look at why people are upset (ignoring some of the crazies - I hope I'm not one of them) and I think you'll kind of see where we're coming from. You won't necessarily agree, but I think you'll understand that the position isn't so absurd.
hea Firecaptwife. the way i see it is that someone should joing the fire dept. to actually fight fires. since the dept out here cant seem to get that going a pay cut is only right since well they are a over paid ambulance company with hoses.. sorry but the dept out here makes way to much money for the little fire action that they show up for. I am a ex FDNY firefighter and we don't even come close to the amount of money that the so called firefighters out here make...
Tundra is absolutley correct. Visit your local station. Talk with the company officer regarding your concerns. They will be more than willing to poor you a cup of coffee and discuss your concerns. By and large these individuals are great people that are there to serve you, the public. They will be more than willing to discuss the situation. This may also be just as meaningful for our people. Sometimes, all our people hear are each others' opinions. Hearing your opinions in a thoughtful and meaningful conversation may actually have more influence than being angry in these blogs.
As for nepatism, I would say that there is an over representation of the Mormon
population in the fire service here in Vegas. I am not sure but it does seem high. Again, relative to the population I would have to look a little closer. I am not sure if it's linked back to the church or if there is some grand master plan... I'm not privied with knowing the secret hand shake. At my station there may be about 10-20% of the people that are Mormon. I just believe that their culture attracts them to this type of job. They are Mostly dedicated, hard working, selfless individuals who take great pride in their jobs. I may just be naive though???
Mach 1---
Thank you for admitting that there is a nepotism issue with the fire department.
The LDS settled in southern Nevada in the 1800's. They have been a silent, controlling force in city and county positions ever since.
In the rural areas in Nevada, schools that have a high population of LDS also show nepotism to their own. Most of the athletes are picked solely on their LDS status. If you are LDS and a crappy player, you're still on the team. It's very difficult to make it into sports in a heavily populated Mormon area if you aren't one. They are known for ostrisizing anyone that won't join their church. They won't let their children play with non LDS children, particulary the girls---They can be quite a debilitating group. Many people that aren't LDS leave the rural areas due to their harassment based on religion. They are almost as bad as the Taliban---without the guns.
But anyway,I think people should visit their local fire stations for observation sake....But then again, that might not be a good idea as people are very angry right now---It could get ugly.
MACH 1
thanks for answering my staffing question. You said they would have to shut a station down when there was too much sick time. Is there not stations in Vegas that have multiple engine companys that could move for a shift to cover or is it a union agreement on minimum firefighters on duty that keeps that from happening?
FireCaptWife My brother is a LA fireman...and we did comare the numbers honey, After he and his buddies at the house saw the numbers they want to know where they can sign up? plus he brought up a good point there is no income tax in Nevada and the cost of living is alot less than LA or Orange county...Unless you count in the 10% tidings fee for getting you on with the CCFD thru your rep at your local LDS ward..:)
Also thank you MACH1 for being a strait shooter..It's getting to be a rare thing in these parts
hey firecaptwife...
i am not a public employee...
i do not work for you...
your husband on the other hand is a public employee...
he works for the public...
his pay is therefore public knowledge...
and your fear of disclosing his pay is clearly a sign that he makes far far too much...
listen up boys and girls...
the firemen are hurting this community...
it is time to fire them all...
and start over from scratch...
on our terms...
on the people's terms...
on terms that do not hurt the community...
go steve go!!!
what say you rory???
my vote for you hangs in the balance...
got that rory???
grow some stones rory and fire all of them...
then you will win in a landslide!!!
Good questions... We do have a few double staffed stations. I believe the city is negotiating to brownout and move those units or shut them down. That would only slow down the overtime though. There are probably somewhere between 50-100 overtime guys on duty throughout the entire valley. I am not sure on the number. Considering we have three shifts, that's anywhere from 150-300 positions short valley wide. Throughout the valley we may be able to shut down 15-20 positions with little impact. After that... It'd start to hurt the community. Again, that's valley wide. I don't see everyones staffing so I am guesstimating. They have been building stations like crazy in the past 5 years or so and not hiring for the positions. Don't get me wrong... We have been happy to work it but it has gotten way out of control. It is just way out of whack and the public is obviously not happy about it. Just remeber. The hourly salary for a ff is between 17 and 26 an hour. When you start adding up all the hours you have to work to get the wages that you see it is an incredible number. They are working these hours. As many have incorrectly assumed this valley's departments are extremely busy. Yes, they do run a lot of medical responses but they are also fighting their fair share of fires. It's rare that they are notable enough to make national news like a wildfire or a refinery fire but they are still hard work, dangerous environments, that require high training, physical capabilities, and hard work. Relative to any city in the US these departments are busy. Our pay is relative to other citys as well. It's our overtime that is out of control.
Again, an invitation to anyone to visit a station and discuss these issues. Just check your anger at the door. We can discuss any issue you bring.
Dear FireCaptWife, your husband is paid with my taxes and I have every right to know how much he makes.
Birdiedreamin, you should put your money where your mouth is, You have no clue how much money my Husband makes and again you are lumping everyone together, the large # that you see on the web site showing how much money the FF are making is not the whole truth, the one's that made over 3K that was for reg salaries, overtime, vacation and sick buy out, that is not what they make every year those FF retried from the dept and that was there buy out,but that's not what the news is telling you. The FF that you keep on saying my tax dollars will they pay taxes to.
True--most of the outrageous salaries are due to overtime...That's why some of the fire fighters are losing their homes. They built these 4,000 + square foot homes based on their overtime. Now that it is gone, they can't afford them, and they are losing them.
I hope no one is fooled by the "FireCaptWife" public relations smoke screen. They are protecting their own self interest. It's human nature.
There are guys in their 30's making $230k a year driving a fire truck. www.transparentnevada.com
I actually don't have a problem with most firefighters. It's the ones who think they deserve the money they are making and have the nerve to try and justify it that irks me.
Many ordinary jobs are more dangerous and have far worse long term health ramifications than being a firefighter. There is no shortage of qualified people who would stand in line for days to take their jobs.
Oh, and to anyone who says the critics are haters who couldn't pass the test, I got a perfect score. Actually better than a perfect score because I'm a disabled veteran. I also interview exceptionally well. I just didn't know the secret handshake, have "juice" etc etc.
Thank goodness I already had a couple degrees in my back pocket to land on. I can only imagine how well qualified the guys that actually got hired must have been.
Maybe after we out the Mormon influence in
the Fire Dept., the Police Dept., and in the school district, someone will put another Mormon on the spot and ask him why THE MINING COMPANIES STEAL NEVADA'S GOLD FOR PRACTICALLY NOTHING...ala HARRY REID. And just for the record, I don't think nepotism and douche-bag politics are limited to the Mormons...they just happen to have a monopoly on it in this state.
BrianK.. It is not a smoke screen as you call it, I can see now why you did not get the Job, it's not because your not Mormon, it's your am better then everyone else no one what's someone in there house 24 hours who acts like that, so get real!!!!!!!!!!!
birdiedreamin' does not work. He's on welfare.
Calthompian, so my tax dollars are paying birdiedreamin to stay home.... great LMAO way to go birdiedreamin
Really grabbing for straws there aren't you FireCaptWife....
I had the honor of serving in very close quarters and adverse conditions in the Army and rest assured we all got along very well.
The real insult to injury was that my wife and I sat down before I applied and discussed the reduction in pay I'd experience by becoming a firefighter. We decided that we'd make the sacrifice and live on less because we'd be doing something we loved, something that mattered.
Of course I had no way of knowing how wrong I was. I really expected to make $40k a year.
If you're husband is a fire captain and you're working full time then I hate to break it to you, but you do in fact make a "crap load of money" and benefits compared to someone else with comparable education and abilities. Maybe your perspective is a bit skewed?
I've been on 3 alarm fires, routine medical calls, and bad car accidents. At no time did anyone come close to justifying this kind of compensation.
I was wondering if FireCaptWife was a Firehouse Groupie first or just a lucky Mormon girl that married well?She seems pretty defensive of the whole issue like she might lose here bimmer or might have to get a job to maintain her current lifestyle...
Everyone please, please, please try to remember that theFF did NOT ask for these perks. The counties/cities added these to the contract when times were good. If you are offered $1M, you're not going to say no!!! Yes, I agree things are bad and we all have to do our share BUT I do have to ask what is the County doing to alleviate the budget.
Government officials have to talk the talk WHILE walking the walk.
MR906 like I said before I work 40+ hours a week and drive 2005 Tahoe. am very defensive about the things that are said about our FF. and just so you know I married my high school sweet heart and I was not a groupie, non am I Mormon, full blooded Catholic.
Wow Briank,if you have done all of this and you are so good at what you do then way did you not get on the fire dept.
listen up boys and girls...
that means you steve...
that means you rory...
we citizens are outraged...
OUTRAGED!!!
and if you want to win an election...
it's very simple...
just fire these clowns...
they are sucking the life blood out of this community...
just look at briank's post above...
every damn captain makes ~250k...
that is wrong...
that is dead wrong...
fire them all...
and start over...
reagan did it with the air traffic controllers...
we can do it with these community destroyers...
like i said...
want to win an election...
just state the very simple case that each and every firemen should be fired...
bingo...
you win...
it really is that damn simple...
and the saddest part of all...
is their arrogance...
make no mistake...
these firemen would be hard pressed to get another job...
and their fear mongering...
that is simply unacceptable...
that tells you where their hearts are...
and the damage they are doing to the community...
that will take years to correct...
fire all of the firemen...
want to be elected to public office...
just take the position that you want to fire all of the firemen...
you win!!!
Birdiedreamin, I have never seen someone who hates the Fire Fighters as much as you do, I really think you are one of the ones that tried out and did not get on the dept and it's everyone else fault, but your own. you are a very sad and I bet lonely man
Hey I hate fireman, no Mexicans ! Go Steve give us our rights
hey firecaptwife...
not on welfare...
never tried to be a firemen...
keep guessing though...
you see...
with each and every guess...
we get a sense of your arrogance...
we get a glimpse at your sense of entitlement...
we see that you are willing to destroy the community for personal gain...
keep guessing...
we are learning oh so much...
To All, I guess no takers on visiting your local fire station?.. So, as you all say "when you see us at Costco, the gym , Harley Dealership, Etc.". Please approach us or me (The Company Officer) tell us how we are all gaming the system, you do not trust us, what our religious believes should be?, etc.
Sitting behind a fictitious name and a computer is no panacea to you disatisfaction or whatever hate you have.. I will gaurentee you If you talk with me, you will be looked in the eye as I am not ashamed of what I do, and most of all I will be very professional.
I hope to meet one of you very soon...
FireCaptWife, frankly, I only tested once. I'm sure if I made it my life's ambition to beat the system and find a way in I could have eventually done it. But when you max out the exam, pass the physical, and have a good interview what more can you do?
In reviewing the whole situation I only came up with two things that I could really have improved on.
When we stopped by a convenience store after a call they all grabbed free soda from the fountain and I said, "no thanks". They said "it's ok, it's free". I politely declined. (just not my style)
Also, I think one of the plain clothed people on the interview board that introduced themselves by their common name may have been a CCFD plant. If you recognized them you got extra credit so to speak. Might some of the other applicants have been privy to that info?
I'm too principled a person to do whatever it takes to get a job, even if it's a great one. It was a little heart breaking to find out the system was still that way. I knew it used to be like that, but I honestly thought in this day and age things had changed. Again, my mistake.
To Birdiedreamin, I must extend a special invite to you. It sounds like you need some serious one on one....
hey tundra...
if you are so interested in talking to those that pay your salary...
let's me and you have a conversation...
i'll start...
how much did you make last year???
hmmm???
To Birdiedreamin, That is public record. But I think you said every Captain makes an average of $250,000./ year?. I can tell you I make a good living and live within my means..
To Birdiedreamin, looking back at you post you seem to be a very an unstable individual. Your anger in very obvious. Whatever the underlying cause is, you need to tone it done talk like a reasonable and rational adult or seek some anger management.
To Steve10, Your anger is very unbecoming. You would like to visit your local fire station, "but it might get ugly" anger, threats. So you are telling me you could not sit down have cup of coffee or break some bread and have a civilized discussion or disagreement without it turning to violence?..
Tundra
I wasn't referring to myself as far as the anger and getting ugly is concerned. I was talking about the public in general as being angry and it getting ugly with the general population.
And you need to stop your monotonous... "You are angry" and "unstable" comments you make to anyone that threatens your beliefs about the fire department. When someone is assertive in their beliefs, and you don't like it, you go right for the mentally inbalanced gig. You seem to be the one that goes for the persoanl attacks on people and not the other way around. Just becasue someone states an opinion which you don't like doesn't mean they are mentally disturbed...You seem to be the one that is angry. Maybe you are projecting, and you are the one that is really angry or unsatble and need of help....
Obviously you were never on any debate team in high school or college. Then minute your oponent said something you didn't like, your comment would be...You must be angry...you must be unstable....lol---You'd lose in 30 seconds if that is all you had to say.
You are always attacking people when they say something you don't like. Instead of trying to debate with them, you are cocky, arrogant, and insulting. I don't think Birdie has said anything that shows he is angry or unstable. I think he/she is very angry that his/our taxes are being used inappropriately. We all feel you are entitled to a just salary---just not $200,000 a year with benefits.
Also, you talk about people hiding behind their made up names on the computer screen. Isn't your name made up? If you are so confident in your abilities to debate with people eye to eye, why don't you tell us your fire captain name and the station you are at so that people can come and have a nice cup of coffee and have a nice little stable and unangry debate?
To Steve 10, Well you said it. It might not be a good idea it might get ugly. What is with you and the LDS?. You do have problems with anger. I simply offered the public an invitation to visit the local station and talk with the personnel. The more you talk or I see what you write, I am not sure you would be the one to talk with. It always seems to revolve around gender or religious beliefs. What next are you going to attack a certain race. As far as giving you my name and department location, I must decline. I do have a family that I must protect. It is people like yourself and a few others I truly fear would take it to the next level...
steve,
you're right on about tundra.
he played that "you need to get help for your anger" card with me too.
AFTER I had handed him his lunch exposing what a phony tough guy "hero" he and his cronies are.
typical of our local firefighter heroes (and make no mistake about it - THEY are the ones who account for all the new Sun posters who just joined these forums and have ONLY posted on these threads, in SUPPORT of our local fire dept "heroes".
To Steve10 , LDS and the Taliban. Really!!. You truly need help.. I will pray for you at Church on Sunday.. ( No I am not LDS) .. But I happen to think they are fine group of valley citizens..
It's a losing battle. With all the money that the FF's are making(or stealing as the case may be) you would think that they would pool their money and hire a good PR firm, since they are just making it worse for themselves by posting here. No one sympathizes with you except your co-workers and families.
These FF who have come on this board are an embarassment. I haven't seen one good rebuttal to justify their salary. FireCapt Wife and Tundra are totally unrepentent. The sense of entitlement is beyond anything you would expect from people who supposely serve the public's interest.
Tundra said:
To All, I guess no takers on visiting your local fire station?.. So, as you all say "when you see us at Costco, the gym , Harley Dealership, Etc.". Please approach us or me (The Company Officer) tell us how we are all gaming the system, you do not trust us, what our religious believes should be?, etc.
Sitting behind a fictitious name and a computer is no panacea to you disatisfaction or whatever hate you have.. I will gaurentee you If you talk with me, you will be looked in the eye as I am not ashamed of what I do, and most of all I will be very professional.
I hope to meet one of you very soon...
I say:
I've never met nor heard of a Capt. Tundra. Couldn't find one on transparent nevada either. I'd have to guess you're hiding behind a fictious computer name with your tough guy talk. Nice dodge on the salary question too.
Chief Captain Tundra
As I said, It might get ugly---I am referring to the publicv. Yes, I said it. I didn't say that "I" might get angry or violent.
You have to be Mormon. You get so angry and unstable every time that I bring up the nepotism with the fire department.
And I work with many LDS , and some of them are like the Taliban without guns or bombs. Heard of the Mormon massacre? On Sept. 11, 1857, Mormon militiamen led the slaughter of 120 men, women and children on a wagon train bound for California in an incident known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Then the Mormons tried a cover up and blamed it on the Native Americans. And there have been other incidences of violence within their church. It's no different than the dark ages when the Catholics were slaughtering everyone. Everyone religious group has their few fanatics. No surprise there.
Now they can't get away with this type of violence any longer. However, they do get away with nepotism.(Notice-no exclamation points here--or anger---or untability---just the facts~ smile) And you are correct. Some of them are extremly nice and helpful.
You seem angry and somewhat unstable that the spotlight could be drawn on the LDS church with the neptoism gig. All I said was that we have at least 3 county commissioners that are LDS, and it is the county commissioners which approve of their salaries. Plus you have good old Harry Reid who can protect them too. Walt Rulffs is LDS, the school board is dominated by them, and your fire department is over represented with them. I was not using exclamation points. Where do you come up with the angry part? I was just stating facts and trying to show people where to connect the dots with this abuse in power. (noitice that was a period I just put there not an exclamation point).
To Steve10/Insider, Thanks for the Sunday morning history lesson and paraphasing.. I would be glad to have one or both of you visit me at my station. If I had a way to divulge my identity, I would. But, like I said we have some very unstable and angry individuals in this "chat room". I do have a family and must keep them safe. My invatation was to visit any station and I would hope you would be greeted with a professional, open attitude at any and all. I have relized I am wasting my time.
Good Luck in your objectives...
i think ole tundra got a tad nervous that he might have crossed the line...
Hey wasn't the CCFD Captain that busted in Henderson driving a Tundra?He made about 250K..
The Democrats control the Nevada Assembly.
The next Speaker of Assembly will be a.............................Clark County Fire Captain.
Boy....can Democrats pick them.
birdiedreamin;
I assume by your lovely poetic comments that after you posted this rhetoric you went downtown to submit your application to become a firefighter. You clearly have what it takes to keep the public safe.
If you haven't perhaps you need to spend one day/night following a shift in a firehouse. I can only imagine how prophetic your prose would be. I encourage you to step into shoes that you have no experience in. I realize that would require you to do something other than spend your time complaining...but that would actually require effort. So sorry for you and your disgruntled personality. God loves you...
Here's my take on the entire bashing of the fire department and all of the personnell. You all make the statements that firefighters are crooks, slime, over-egoed heroes, that all just want to steal from the taxpayer. So, since everyone wants to make such crazy statements and accusations, then let me come on with some as well.
All valet attendants steal money out of all cars and take them for some fun rides.
All waiter/waitress spit in our food and do all kinds of nasty to it.
All lawyers only want to steal your money and won't care if they can't help you.
Doctors don't care for their patients, they just want to over charge for their short visit with you and couldn't care less if you get better.
I really could go on and on, but I won't. Don't you see how ridiculous and radical you all sound when you go into that mode of bashing the firefighters. Not only is crass and rude, it demeans whatever intelligent point that you would like to make.
Where is ok to now throw eggs at the fire engines and spit on the firefighters? Don't you see how your not so truthful comments and thoughts have lead to this assault on those who are trying to help people and in a majority cases, save their lives? It is so very sad and scary and I believe due to this outrageously hostile environment that the stupid transparent nevada website be removed. Last I heard, stalking was against the law and so was assault.
isn't it funny how our firemen friends bounce back and forth between heroic self evaluation and fear mongering...
so easily too...
well guess what boys and girls...
the two don't mix...
and the fear mongering reveals where you heart truly lies...
bottom line...
i love firemen that make between $50k-$75k...
firemen that make over $75k hurt the community...
firemen that make $250k destroy the community...
It's not the wrong kind of fear birdiedreamin. You shouldn't want anyone to suffer an assault of any kind. Doesn't matter if it is a firefighter or an elderly person.
These things HAVE happened. I did not make them up and it is not to induce "fear mongering". It is the truth and it something that everyone should seek.
no one is advocating physical violence against anybody...
although i do wonder about some of tundra's comments...
but there simply is no way on god's green earth any community can afford to pay it's firemen $250k...
to do so will destroy the community...
period...
end of story...
It's the arrogant firefighters that unabashedly fleece the community coffers that everyone is up in arms about.
There are plenty of nice, humble, appreciative firefighters. My neighbor is one of them, we hung out yesterday. Great guy. He certainly lives well and he's home with his family a heck of a lot more than I am. In fact, as a whole he probably has more than twice the vacation and family time I do. Oh, and I'm not a workaholic by any means. I have a pretty typical schedule.
The city of Las Vegas, the state of Nevada, cannot afford to over pay this kind of money in salaries and benefits.
Please show me any other career in the universe that pays $250k a year with a high school diploma AND lets you retire in your 40's at an equally excessive pay rate?
If the only way to get qualified people to do the job was to offer their current pay and benefits then at least you'd have an argument. However, the world is full of able bodied people with a high school diploma in hand that would gladly take their spots for $50k a year. It's been like that for years.
The employment testing the fire department does is a joke. No where does it actually test your aptitude to be a good fire fighter. The written test is common sense to many well rounded people. I got a perfect score without having to memorize the test prep books like most applicants do. Passing a test because you memorized what's on it is false knowledge. No where do they test for being able to make good decisions under pressure. No where do they test your willingness to put yourself knowingly in harms way to help others. It's all about who you know.
In short, there are many more eager, more qualified applicants who will work for a fraction of what's being paid; but they never get the chance because they don't know the secret handshake.
hey brian...
you do have to admit...
it is kind of funny when these firemen try to brag and hurl insults like...
you couldn't pass the test...
holy cow...
that is just too damn funny...
has any guidance counselor anywhere ever discouraged a child from becoming a firemen because they weren't smart enough...
please...
those jobs would be replaced in a week...
2 weeks tops...
all of them...
you know what i wonder...
i wonder how many times they have laughed their tails off when they opened their checks and saw the outrageous amounts they are being paid...
you know that has happened thousands and thousands of times...
bottom line...
firemen should make $50k-$75k...
tops...
ever...
period...
end of story...
What's the difference between a fireman and Bernie Madoff? Answer: Bernie Madoff never called himself a hero.
Right on, birdie. It's funny how these heroic firemen aren't brave enough to ignore all of these insults and criticisms directed at them. They should be laughing all the way to the bank.
I can't believe how some of you hate us Firefighters! A lot of you keep saying we think we are heros, and we got hired because of our secret handshake. I think a few people have always been jealous of Firefighters, because many people have looked up to us, especially kids. I don't see the problem with that. I grew up, looking up to Firefighters, and Police Officers.
I think now some of you are even more jealous, because a few Firefighters are making a lot of money. Brian K , were you jealous of your neighbor, before the big growth, and Firefighters seldom had the opportunity to work overtime. Most Firefighters only make $75,000 a year with no overtime. Yes, it might appear that we have a lot of time of with our schedule. We work 10 days a month, and have 20 days off, while you work 20 days a month, and have 8 days off, plus your holidays.
I am away from my family 240 hours month, and you are away from yours 160 hours. If your neighbor made $240,000 last year, he must have worked 20 days a month. Thats 480 a month. i wonder what you would make working three full time jobs? I know we should only make 50k-75k no mater how many hours we work.
I got hired after testing for 7 years. I also obtained my Fire Science Degree, and Paramedicine degree, before getting hired. There is no secret handshake! When you have 3000 applicants testing for 100 positions every two years, it can take a while. Many of our Firefighters have Bachelor degrees, I know of 20 who have their Masters, and one who has his Doctorate Degree. Some famous Americans who were Firefighters: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Adams, John Hancock, Paul Revere, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, John Barry, Aaron Burr, Benedict Arnold, James Buchanan and Millard Fillmore.
A lot of great people have worked as Firefighters. I am proud of what I do , and you people can never take that away from me! no matter how hard you keep trying to belittle my profession. Shame on all of you!
The only facts that you people have are the facts that are presented to you by the media. That is the problem with today's society. We have all these people like you that assume. One news article about Firefighters making 200k a year and everyone is all pissed off.
Are there firefighters in the city that make this much money? Yes. Does every firefighter make this much money? No. Why are there firefighters making 200k a year? I will tell you why. Because they work their ass off working overtime and pretty much live at the firehouse. They work 48 hour shifts and don't see their families for sometimes several days. It is not even uncommon for firefighters to work a 96 hour shift straight. So while you are all bitching about how much they make you need to lay-off the firefighters and start talking to your city managers about hiring more firefighters so there is less overtime.
Why don't they do this? Well, from the city administration perspective. Do you know how much it costs to train a firefighter? Do you know how much it costs to outfit a firefighter with protective gear? Do you know how much it costs to insure one firefighter? Do you know how much it costs to pay the benefits (city benefits) to one firefighter? possibly a whole lot less than it is just to have them work a few overtime shifts a month. Those few overtime shifts a month add up. THAT is where the 200k comes from, and it is not easily earned. The base pay is still that of 50-70k a year.
You all have not a clue about what you are talking about. You are just listening to the media and to pissed off politicians because they can't have control over something and they want to try to look like a big fish.
If you don't want your firefighters making 200k a year then start pushing your city officials to hire more firefighters so they they hire less overtime everyday.