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Wednesday, April 14, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Sun Archives
- High-speed rail: Will it be worth the wait for Nevadans? (3-31-2010)
- Work on high-speed rail set to begin this year (3-25-2010)
- DesertXpress prepared to build; maglev, monorail extension on hold (1-15-2010)
- A boost for DesertXpress (7-3-2009)
- Path clears for federal support of fast train to California (7-2-2009)
- High-speed train plan gets notice in D.C. (6-24-2009)
- Public or private, rail line will need major subsidies from government (6-14-2009)
- Maglev or DesertXPress, this could be your new ride (6-14-2009)
- Trade-offs between technologies include speed, cost (6-14-2009)
- Maglev train to press on without Reid (6-10-2009)
- Reid sides with Desert Xpress fast train option (6-9-2009)
- State sends no representative to talk on high-speed trains (6-5-2009)
- Obama outlines vision for high-speed rail network (4-16-2009)
- 8 states seek stimulus money for high-speed rail (4-15-2009)
- No waste in rail dream (3-5-2009)
- Economic crisis an opportunity to be greener (3-1-2009)
- Vegas, Midwest seek the $8 billion for fast trains (2-23-2009)
- Calif. bond would launch bullet train project (9-26-2008)
As two companies compete to be the first to provide high-speed rail service between Las Vegas and Southern California in the not too distant future, a third is saying it will have a train click-clacking along next year. Las Vegas Railway Express will provide conventional passenger rail service to and from Los Angeles on existing tracks, its executives say.
They’ve been studying the prospect since early 2009 and are now in the strategic planning stage for an inaugural run by mid-2011, more than three years ahead of when the planned DesertXpress high-speed rail system would make its first trip between Victorville, Calif., and Las Vegas.
Michael Barron, chairman and CEO of the company, which is calling its project the “X Train,” envisions having a party atmosphere on wheels when the train takes passengers from Los Angeles’ Union Station to an as-yet-undetermined station location in Las Vegas in about 5 1/2 hours.
“It’s here now, existing technology that won’t take billions of dollars or even hundreds of millions of dollars to develop,” Barron says. “We’re acquiring standard train sets and bi-level commuter passenger cars, and then we’re getting some special cars that we’ll trick up to become a gaming car or a sports and entertainment car.”
While the rival DesertXpress operators have emphasized that they want their customers to begin the Las Vegas experience when they climb aboard their 150 mph train by offering luggage check-in straight to the hotel, the developers of the X Train say the Las Vegas party will start as the train rolls out of the station, with a sports bar lounge in one of the cars and rooms and show tickets available for purchase onboard.
Barron says his company is looking at some scheduling models. The idea is to initially run one round-trip a day, five days a week, Thursday through Monday.
One proposal is to leave Union Station in Los Angeles about 11:30 a.m., stop to pick up passengers in Fullerton at noon and continue nonstop to Las Vegas, where the train would arrive about 5 p.m.
The return trip would leave Las Vegas about 7 p.m., getting back to Los Angeles about midnight.
Within five years of the startup, executives hope to run 40 trains a week. The price of a round-trip ticket, Barron says, would be $99 — comparable to the average ticket price contemplated by the developers of DesertXpress.
So how would the X Train compete against something as swift as the DesertXpress or a maglev train? Barron’s simple answer: It won’t.
“We’re not going to compete against them,” he says. “This is an excursion type deal. DesertXpress will be very, very costly to build with a brand-new right of way. We plan to make the trip on the existing track between L.A. and Las Vegas, and our experience will be considerably different from theirs.”
A partnership between Amtrak West and Talgo Inc., a Washington state-based subsidiary of Patentes Talgo of Madrid, floated an idea similar to the X Train concept in the late 1990s. Talgo and Amtrak West proposed a European-style train capable of traveling 80 mph on the existing Union Pacific track between Los Angeles and Las Vegas.
Amtrak was looking for something new to replace the Desert Wind, the one-time daily passenger train service between Los Angeles and Salt Lake City that was trimmed to three trips a week before being shut down May 10, 1997.
There were numerous complaints about the Desert Wind, which was slowed by freight traffic on the Union Pacific-controlled rail line. At times, the 5 1/2-hour trip took eight hours because of freight priority delays.
Talgo ran a successful tourism-based train in the Pacific Northwest between Seattle and Vancouver, British Columbia. The company developed a Las Vegas-themed train car, and Amtrak West approached casino companies about subsidizing the service in the early going.
The Amtrak-Talgo partnership proposed building several miles of parallel track along a steep grade in California to help offset the freight train delays. It was a costly proposition that included the expense of developing an environmental assessment on the land where the parallel track was planned.
Amtrak showed off the train during the Governor’s Tourism Conference in Las Vegas in 1999. Sen. Harry Reid, then a member of the Senate Transportation Appropriations subcommittee, helped get $5 million for the route.
But Amtrak couldn’t get the funding necessary to develop the route, and the project was shelved, leaving Las Vegas with a track but no passenger train service.
A key difference between the Amtrak-Talgo model and X Train plan, Barron says, is that the company has negotiated to pay extra for rail access that would give the passenger train priority on the track.
“The plan we have offered has been well received, and we would pay a premium to run ahead of all their (Union Pacific) freight,” he says.
Because it’s a work in progress, Barron says there are several details about the plan that he couldn’t elaborate on. One key detail is the location of the Las Vegas station.
Barron said the company is investigating several sites, and he hopes an announcement on the location would be made within a month.
Would its location influence what happens with the DesertXpress, which also doesn’t have a Las Vegas station location finalized? Four alternative sites are listed in DesertXpress’s environmental assessment, all off Interstate 15, with two near Flamingo Road, one near Russell Road and one near downtown.
But even after the X Train announces its station site, a lot of unanswered questions will remain.
Can the X Train generate enough riders who don’t care that the trip would take longer for them than to drive in their own cars? Will the X Train owners be able to maintain their priority relationship with Union Pacific?
And how does the American Magline Group’s maglev project fit in the equation? The existing Union Pacific line could be along the right of way sought by the maglev project between Las Vegas and Primm. Is there room for both?
What would happen to the X Train once high-speed rail comes on line? Would riders migrate to the faster alternative or would DesertXpress’ Victorville terminus keep the X Train in the game?
None of that will be sorted out until later down the line.
A version of this story is running in this week’s edition of the Las Vegas Sun’s sister publication, In Business Las Vegas.
Yeah OK this works for now, but please.. five and a half hours? We need high speed to make this trip an hour to really make a difference about movement of people, commerce, commuting and ultimately economic diversity for Southern Nevada.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind, and you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Why next year? Why not now, for this simple, interim solution. Everything is now in place, other than an arrival station in Vegas.
It's better than going by Greyhound!
Some people should know what they're talking about before posting. Some people want to take their own funds, buy used equipment, and rent the track then let em. There are these types of operations all around. The train in the Grand Canyon comes to mind.
Las Vegas Railway Express, Inc. is a publicly traded company (OTCBB: XTRN) developed for the purpose of providing a Vegas style passenger rail service between Los Angeles and Las Vegas.
We are 100% privately financed. Our shareholders represent some of the most respected investment funds and hedge funds in the U.S.
http://www.xtrainvegas.com/
Sen. Harry Reid, then a member of the Senate Transportation Appropriations subcommittee didn't seem to get much for Nevada back then either.
I seen a picture of that 80 mph European train in Vegas. Also seen a photo of an abandoned Amtrak Euro train forgotten and rotting away. I believe most of their existing equipment even at the time could well exceed 80 mph. IMO just an excuse to spend money with the notion of "high speed" even if it was only 80 mph. Maybe then Amtrak would have paid extra for priority use of tracks rented.
RIDERSHIP IS DOOMED TO START WITH.
(6) INDIAN CASINO'S AVAILABLE IN LESS THAN AN HOUR BY CAR. DUH!
if they really pitch a party atmosphere for the journey it could really take off. Kinda like a booze cruise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwXA5wv0z...
I agree with Jerry Wayne. This is a great idea if they do it right. Heck, it even presents an alternative form of transportation home when all the L.A. transplants want to go visit their family. I hope it happens and I hope it's successful.
I think this x train will be perfect
Terrible idea, just another way for drug smugglers and illegals to sneak in and out of Vegas. That's one train ride that will be full of criminals, no thanks!
Hope they don't bite off more than they can choo-choo.
A niche project. Only 5 times per week. They have a train that goes from Manhattan Penn station 5 times per weekend. An electric locomotive pushes the train to Philadelphia, then a diesel locomotive pushes the train to Atlantic City(non electrified track). Trip takes 2:30 hours at best. Train is called ACES.
5.5 hours and that is if there are NO DELAYS - which there will be! And the price will be $99, when I can take a sedan-full of people from LA to Vegas for about $30 worth of gas. And it will take me about an hour less in travel time. Oh yeah, and I would have a car at my disposal so I don't have to pay for transportation to and from the station.
How is this a good idea? The United States needs high-speed rail so we can get away from the horrors of air travel.
I hope all there P's and Q's are together or it will be like the tram.
Maybe it will connect to the Las Vegas Tram tracks.
As long as this is 100% privately funded I have no problem with it. But even though they say it won't compete with high-speed rail, the X-train will be a thorn in the side if it has any success at all.
Sounds like an exceptional idea that would give Southern California visitors another option for getting here -- and one that turns the trip itself into an entertainment experience.
And while 5 1/2 hours might be longer than an I-15 drive under ideal conditions, it probably would beat driving during peak travel times.
Doesn't cost us anything, brings more visitors to town and takes traffic off an overloaded freeway. Great idea.
It's a great idea and I wish them well with this. The more creative and competitive ideas out there, the better for us Las Vegans.
STOP with the whining.
http://www.acestrain.com/#/fares/
Looks to me like they have this routed all wrong. They could probably save about an hour by going dirctly from Victorville to Ontario (through the Cajon Pass) and then to LA (instead of going through Palmdale. Then add a stop in Ontario to connect with Metrolink, and they might have something.
So, what's up with this?
sounds like the foundation for a get away weekend in L.A. and hit the beach while i'm there. $99 and i get to kick back and ride in a party atmosphere,,, where do i purchase my ticket please. let those with too much money fly
Driving, when you encounter NO traffic problems will take you 4.5 hours, going at an average speed of 80 mph, with a gas price average of $100 (round trip) so this is a good alternative. Plus, this actually goes to LA not Victorville. What benefit does Victorville do for anyone? This is a good first step option which could grow over time for both LA and OC passengers.
Drop 'em off in Sloan - they can hitch to the Strip down on LVB South. Cheaper than the ACE ...
Just because it's cheaper doesn't mean it's better. Even IF (there's no assurance) the Palmdale extension was built, a trip from Ontario or Anaheim to Vegas would still be well over an hour faster on the maglev. I would only support DX if future plans included a Cajon Pass leg. As the Inland Empire begins to densify and it's residents become less dependant on commuting to LA for work, the demand WILL be there for it.
Even though Maglev isn't compatible with steel-wheel HSR technology, there can still be transfer stations at Ontario Airport and Anaheim (especially if ARTIC is chosen as the terminus).
Besides, DX was supposed to break ground in March, not "this year". Not to mention that they now want 80% of the project's funds to come from the feds. On top of that, the DX has apparently avoided the CEQA process. Totally unacceptable.
And for the record, the same company that is trying to build DX is the same company that filed bankruptcy on their very own Monorail system.
TheKash, Steel Wheel on rail technology isn't (yet) able to handle the grade of the Cajon Pass. But maglev CAN.
5 1/2 hours is a joke. All this is BS.
Cling !! Cling !!...tickets please ! Next stop Las Vegas.
This is the entrepeneur's dream come true, a party on wheels with gaming, dancing, dinning and whatnot.
This is not a commuter train, it's a PARTY train, meaning you get in the train to party, not to keep watching the clock to see what time you arrive. Some people don't know how to read.
Your car, four friends, $30 in gas, 3 and 1/2 hours driving. BORING!!
A party train, your friends and dozen other people including members of the other sex, $99 ticket, 5 & 1/2 hours partying. FUN!!
You choose, I take fun, and no public funds (at least they don't say)
"yet to be determined station in Las vegas" means that Oscar will get involved an want to put the station downtown next to the new unneeded city hall, IF they put his name on it.
Sounds like no risk to the taxpayer, and a possible win for partyers looking to make the trip & for the tourism business (if developers do a good job with the train). If they can make the Las Vegas station stumbling distance to downtown or strip hotels, this could be a real niche winner.
Make it a Hooters train, and it's probably a winner!
I was mistaken in my last post. It was a different Turbo train I seen roting.
The Harry Reid Tolgo train:
This train set was scheduled to enter service between Los Angeles, CA and Las Vegas, NV in early 2001, but was sold to WSDOT in 2003 and is currently in use ion the Eugene ,Oregon to Vancouver, BC (Canada)corridor.
http://www.talgoamerica.com/history.aspx...
Here is the Harry Reid invention to the event:
http://www.trainweb.com/cgi-bin/photos/s...
Here's a picture of Reid at the event:
http://www.trainweb.com/cgi-bin/photos/s...
The speed restriction for the Talgo train of 80 MPH was a safety issue.
The Federal Railroad Administration has given a partial decision on the use of Amtrak's Talgo trains in the Pacific Northwest. At issue is whether the trains comply with new federal safety regulations or can be grandfathered to remain in use for the time being. Grandfathering is allowed under the new regs on a case by case basis. The FRA has allowed that Amtrak may continue to run the Talgo trains pending modifications which shall be made within the next nine months. The questions of whether the trains can exceed 79 miles per hour and whether or not they can be used on two other Amtrak routes have yet to be decided.
A Non-Powered Control Unit (NPCU) on the other end ot the Togo train is used on other routes. The NPCU contains a cement weight to meet FRA weight requirements for collision safety. The NPCU units also serve to meet Federal Railroad Administration regulations for crash safety for the Talgo cars, which are not FRA crash-rated.
All for this! Guys, stop all the complaining...and griping about comparative cost of taking your own vehicle for the trip. This is an alternative to all the dui's that happen here...not that it will cut them all out, but in case y'all haven't noticed, we seem to be be having a fatal almost every day now...wouldn't it be nice to cut down on them and make the roads just a teeny bit safer? I just wish Vegas had a better rail system for the residents here, like they do in DC, Boston, NY, etc....The bus system is so not adequate....
If it is operated the way they operate party busses to casinos, to Dodger games (from central valley 2-4 hours), etc. they will be successful. The party atmosphere will attract the party crowd who will use the 5 1/2 hours to drink and party. It's not my thing, but should work. The idea one writer had about riding the train to L.A. is a marketing opportunity that will add riders, LV residients visiting L.A.
I'm the proverbial Californian who will have to have my hands pried off the wheel of my car, but there are others who will jump at it. Good luck to them.
I don't like the Silver bullet but if was a Bud Light Bullet I would like it!
No one has mentioned the advantage of the link to Los Angeles metro at Unioun Station. This actually has a chance to work. Sure it's quicker and sometimes cheaper to fly but eliminating any need for driving or parking especially on shorter trips is great. By the way I bet the Friday out / Sunday back train ends up being about $250 or more.
GET BACK TO LA STATION AROUND MIDNITE?
YOU BETTER HAVE A BODY GUARD TO GET TO YOUR CAR.
Hey this just might get some of the drunks off the 15 also!!
The problem I see until they get the additional trains up and running is the late time of the return. Acesbet pointed out the problem of getting to Los Angeles so late, but the 7:00 departure from Las Vegas is a problem as well. People check out of their hotels by around noon, and they tend to want to head home right after that.
Lot's of talk everyday it seems about one train plan or another. So the best I can do is to say, "I'll believe it when I see it".
No100, check out the southbound 15 around 7pm on Sunday.
This is a great idea and should be watched before spending billions on the other train ideas. Jump on the train, party on! Not everyone wants to drive 4 hrs. Marketed right it should do well.
Let me say this I would use the xTrain to go to Los Angeles in a heartbeat.I don't have to drive I get off the train right into a rental car or cab and spend a weekend with my wife with complete and total relaxation.
Driving is tiring when I drive long distance all I want to do is crash.This way for 200.00 I will just ride and enjoy.As far as the area of union Station in L.A. I am sure the LAPD and the train service will step up patrolls and wart off alot of the criminal element.This will not only be good for Vegas but L.A. also
Great Idea go for it.
Random comment based on assumptions framed by issues I know nothing about.
A 3-way battle over implementing 1970's technology. That's the American spirit!
Rusty-yours is the most intelligent comment I have seen in a long time on these sites.
LVSreader--maybe they can get Chrysler to build it. They definitely have the best '70's technology around.
Trains in Vegas are a lot like pro sports stadiums...nevah gonna happen
The union pacific is going to give this train priority? Good luck with that ! They will slow it down on purpose just to kill it, just like they do with Amtrak..