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Path clears for federal support of fast train to California
Transportation chief will announce key designation for Las Vegas route today
DesertXpress Enterprises, LLC.
The fully electric DesertXpress trains will reach top speeds of 150 miles-per-hour and travel 184 miles from Victorville, CA to Las Vegas, NV in 84 minutes.
Thursday, July 2, 2009 | 2 a.m.
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Sun Archives
- High-speed train plan gets notice in D.C. (6-24-2009)
- Public or private, rail line will need major subsidies from government (6-14-2009)
- Maglev or DesertXPress, this could be your new ride (6-14-2009)
- Trade-offs between technologies include speed, cost (6-14-2009)
- Maglev train to press on without Reid (6-10-2009)
- Reid sides with Desert Xpress fast train option (6-9-2009)
- State sends no representative to talk on high-speed trains (6-5-2009)
- Obama outlines vision for high-speed rail network (4-16-2009)
- 8 states seek stimulus money for high-speed rail (4-15-2009)
- No waste in rail dream (3-5-2009)
- Economic crisis an opportunity to be greener (3-1-2009)
- Vegas, Midwest seek the $8 billion for fast trains (2-23-2009)
- Calif. bond would launch bullet train project (9-26-2008)
Sun Coverage
Washington — The U.S. Transportation secretary will announce today the designation of a federal high-speed-rail corridor between Las Vegas and Southern California, a major assist that enables the long-imagined train route to compete for $8 billion in economic recovery funding and other federal support, the Las Vegas Sun has learned.
The announcement comes as two proposed fast trains are vying to connect Las Vegas and Southern California, a race that has intensified since President Barack Obama unleashed an unprecedented investment in high-speed rail as part of the stimulus bill approved by Congress.
It is unclear whether today’s announcement will favor one of the competing projects over the other. However, the federal designation improves the chances that a train will be developed between the two regions by opening the door to federal aid. Analysts think only one train system will be built.
Secretary Ray LaHood is expected to join Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s transportation secretary for today’s announcement in Las Vegas.
Just last month, Reid announced he was giving up his longtime support of the California Super Speed Train Commission’s proposed $12 billion magnetic levitation train between Las Vegas and Anaheim, frustrated the public project had no tangible results in 30 years.
Instead, Reid is now backing the DesertXpress train to Victorville, a private project. Reid says the proposal, which emerged in 2002 with support from Republican political mogul Sig Rogich, has a better chance of getting built. Rogich is a longtime ally of Reid, and co-chairman of the senator’s 2010 reelection group Republicans for Reid.
As a private project, DesertXpress insists it has no interest in tapping the $8 billion in recovery money — although more recently its backers said they may seek federal loans to help finance the $5 billion project.
Yet train experts say there is one reason virtually no privately run passenger rail lines exist in this country, or the world: They don’t make financial sense. Most high-speed rail lines are subsidized with public money.
DesertXpress is eyeing an existing federal program that provides low-interest loans, payable in 35 years, for 100 percent financing.
A source familiar with today’s announcement said the corridor designation would potentially help either project.
“If it’s maglev, it makes it easier to compete for grant funding,” the source said. “If it’s DesertXpress, it does streamline the process for federally backed loans.”
Neither train proposal is perfect. The $12 billion maglev line to Anaheim relies on a technology untried in this country because experts say it is too expensive to build.
The $5 billion DesertXpress project ends in Victorville, a high-desert outpost 85 miles north of the Southern California basin — too far a drive, critics say, to woo passengers from cars or planes.
California has an interest in the Las Vegas lines, as both Nevada projects would connect eventually with California’s north-south trunk line — a $45 billion project linking San Francisco and Southern California. Maglev would connect at the California line’s planned station in Anaheim, and DesertXpress envisions a spur linking its Victorville stop to the California train’s Palmdale station, about 50 miles west.
Both Las Vegas trains would charge fares of about $50 each way.
Maglev’s supporters, including Bellagio executive Bruce Aguilera, met with LaHood in Washington this spring and pressed for the corridor designation.
The group asked for the project to be “designated as a high-speed rail corridor and considered for funding as part of the $8 billion,” according to letters from supporters at the time. The group also expects to court private dollars and loans.
“The corridor designation process certainly influences the possibility of getting funding in the future,” said Neil Cummings, president of American Magline Group, the consortium of engineering and construction firms developing the maglev line plan.
Corridor designation is a requirement in several aspects of recovery funding — to obtain grants for design and construction or matching funds to plan future spurs.
High-speed-rail corridors are considered long stretches, 100 to 600 miles between major cities, with a few sites in between.
Corridor designation may also be required for future rail development money in the upcoming multiyear transportation bill. Obama has requested an additional $5 billion in fiscal 2010 to continue his push for high-speed rail over the next five years.
Ten high-speed-rail corridors exist nationwide, chosen in the early 1990s as part of an initial effort to develop faster trains.
Under existing law, the transportation secretary has the authority to designate an 11th line.
But experts say those corridors were essentially chosen because they could be upgraded to make existing rail lines move faster, perhaps by eliminating grade crossings or softening curves.
The program languished without adequate funding during the Clinton and Bush administrations, critics say.
More recently, the Federal Railroad Administration suggested it would be revising the corridor list and updating it with perhaps new designations.
It is unclear whether the Las Vegas to Southern California corridor would become the 11th corridor or part of a new system.
Questions remain on the hurdles potentially blocking access to recovery dollars for maglev or DesertXpress — if the private company were to decide to seek federal money.
Recovery funding requires that the project be backed by a state, groups of states or regional authorities.
DesertXpress is a private enterprise currently unaffiliated with a state agency. Maglev’s commission is supported by Nevada, but not California.
Pre-applications for fast train projects seeking recovery money are due one week from Friday, with final applications due later this year.
Discussion: 29 comments so far…
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If they do build it, Southwest will lower it's fares to $39 each way--what's the use?
Of course maglev is the only way to go between Anaheim and Las Vegas. There's virtually no built-up rail network to contend with and, toward the northern end, especially,the I-15 right-of-way provides an excellent path for the very high speeds that will define this project as a showcase for the rest of the world.
I agree with Larry, adding that it's so disappointing to see the same false anti-maglev arguments pop up over and over again. This article is void of these arguments but comments always come.
In contrary to these always recurring arguments, Maglev is not "overly expensive to build" as it is in the same league concerning capital costs as regular high-speed trains. Besides that, Maglev is significantly cheaper to run and maintain due to its frictionless propulsion as the vehicles do not deteriorate the guideway. Moreover, Maglev is not noisy: it's quieter than urban background noise at speeds up to 150mph, and not louder at its cruising speed of 311mph than a truck at 50mph.
The commercial Maglev line in Shanghai, with its reliability over 99.98% and punctuality of less than one second cumulative delay over entire working days, has proven that maglev technology is the most reliable transport system in the world.
Definitely Maglev is the way to go.
they could even cover the top of the train in solar panels making it the fastest eco power generator in the world
PBS Documentary Premiering March 5, 2016 "The Train to Nowhere" a 2- part series on Nova on failed billion dollar USA projects.
This is a waste of money mainly because it stops in Victorville. If you're going to do it do it right and build it all the way into the LA basin. To me this is like building a train from Boston to New York and having it stop in New Haven. This is a real cop out project and Harry Reid should be taken to the woodshed for his support of this.
ronGodzilla
I heard it is now going to Anaheim. Pending on the cost - I cannot see a family of 4 or 5 paying $200+ to go to Disneyland; and then pay hotel and entrance fees. Unless, of course, deals will be out there so people WILL take this albatross. The final destination should be LA. But like rayy mentioned - Southwest will make the fares so affordable (more like $60 round trip) that no one will bother with this ridiculous waste of money.
By the way - by the time we see this thing - most of us will be dead!!! Or so old that going on this thing better be extremely handicap accessible.
They should build this train with a route to Searchlight. It will get about the same ridership and the same buffoons will still support it.
this country has a pre-historic attitude toward public transportation of various kinds. the thread above identifies a bunch of people who won't take the train. make the way for level heads and level trains whooshing into the future!
Who wants anything to do with the desert out post Victorville? Beau Geste? What besides do drugs and a prison do they have?
Build the train. Californians will not drive to LV at $5 a gallon.
Many posters here are such red state idiots they dont see the future. Hint, its NOT a Ford Explorer roaring through the desert in 120 degree heat for 6-7 hours of traffic.
Airlines cant fly for $39 you idiot, and if they did it would be another win for LV. P.S. Id rather take a train, it is faster than Air travel. Most Cali's have to drive to LAX which may take a few hours alone. Plus the whole strip search and crazy security issues. Planes are always delayed. Trains are more reliable.
Finallly a stimulus that would do good.
$5 billion & $12 billion dollars!
The government is involved and this thing will not be running for less than $100 billion.
$50 dollar fare!
Plus the CA.,NV.,FEDERAL tax surcharges.
I smell DAVIS BACON wages and where there is DAVIS BACON, nothing is built for the price you claim you can build it for.
This must be a good idea because Harry Reid supports it and if they get OBAMA to support it, then is is sure to become a great economic recovery plan for the united states transportation system.
This rail thing just sounds stupid when you can fly or drive using the current transportation system.
2UALL: WAKE UP. It will take years to get this done. By then you think you will be driving around for a few dollars a gallon???
Ever seen traffic from LA? No way I come to LV on any 3 day weekend because of trafic!
Plan for the future. You will wait until we run out of oil and then want a train and whine it takes 10 years to build. Lets not worry about water until the faucet runds dry.
Short term thinking is what is killing Las Vegas. Posters here are just like real estate and casino people. Short term=Collapse.
I love it! The sooner it's built, the better!
It they put dancers (entertainers) on there as well as gaming it may make sense...otherwise why ride this thing? Just take a plane from Southwest.
Also - It will only serve S. CA residents who have many options for gaming in their backyards.
Doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
This makes absolute perfect sense!
Going to Anaheim? Buy a ticket to Victorville!
Going to the beach? Buy a ticket to Victorville!
Going to Sea World? Buy a ticket to Victorville!
It works the other way around too:
Going to Vegas? Go to Victorville and buy a train ticket!
I guess now is the time to invest in a Victorville car rental agency!
several times over the past couple of weeks, I have seen maglev fans claim that maglev costs "about the same" as high-speed rail, yet I have seen very little evidence to back up these vague claims. even if maglev costs less than it used to, it still costs more than high-speed rail.
the Shanghai maglev is a flawed economic model becuase their labor and environmental laws are horrible. they will always be able to build things cheaply as long as they treat workers like slaves.
a much better example to follow would be Japan, where they not only have the Shinkansen (high-speed rail), but a large network of both private railways and tax-funded trains. the economics is a bit complex because 1) the Japanese take to trains like a fish takes to water; and 2) some private operators operate trains in partnership with the government, making it difficult to understand where subsidies begin. still, it is the best transportation system I've ever encountered, built on a combination of gas taxes, private investment and a public which knows a good thing when it sees one!
the idea of a private operator being willing to build and operate the DesertXpress is an idea worth supporting. if it succeeds, then other private investors might step up to build more high speed rail, or at least get involved in a public-private partnership.
Victorville is undoubtedly the achilles heel of the project, but if you look at the DesertXpress Web site, it is clear that Victorville is only the first step!
10 years from now (assuming it takes ten years to build the rail line), the new fuel economy standards mandated by the Obama administration will have taken effect.
Smaller lighter cars combined with advances in electric and other hybrid technology will result in much greater fuel economy for the average auto.
At $5 a gallon for gas, and 30 miles per gallon, the average car can make the LA to Vegas trip on 10 gallons or less.
Put 4 people in a car, and they can get to Vegas for $50. Put 4 people on the train (assuming no adjustment to the $50 fair in 10 years for cost overruns or inflation) and it costs $200.
It makes far more sense to take the billions the Democrats plan to waste on this train and use it to turn I-15 into an autobahn with 5-10 lanes in both directions between Vegas and L.A. and no speed limit.
10 lanes of traffic in both directions traveling on average 85 MPH will be lower cost for taxpayers and travelers and maximize the fuel efficiency of the new vehicles.
Door to door, you could get from Vegas to L.A. or vice versa in 3.5 hours or less, not much longer than it would take by train (1.5 hrs to Victorville by car, then another 1.5 hours to Vegas by train) and for a lot less money.
High speed rail makes sense in densely populated urban corridors (e.g., NYC to DC) where literally tens of millions of people (who don't have cars) can have access to rapid and fairly lost cost transportation between major cities.
To build one across what is practically unpopulated desert between one major city (LA) and one medium sized city is ... well, great for bankruptcy attorneys like me!
Thanks, Obama and Harry! Keep up the good work!
NICKIDIOT
Sums it up! Dont you think!
As a concept, high speed rail is a good thing. As an economic stimulus, hardly so. Will Las Vegans, who suffer from some of the highest unemployment in the country, get the job? Unlikely. Once the thing is built, how many jobs will it entail other than conductors? Will the casinos benefit greatly and be able to hire more low income workers to whom they find ways to deny benefits? Maybe, someday. But is that such a good thing? Take those billions of dollars and help people in Las Vegas get jobs in sustainabile industries such as green technology, solar eneregy, etc. Help them find ways to buy the glut of homes rotting in the desert sun. The train is no Boulder Dam.
i can get to LA from Vegas in 3.5 hours now. And why build a road 10 lanes wide for the same population that you are complaining about being served by the train? One large city, one medium city...the idea of a train (not dealing with the airport, which adds at least 2 hours to the trip) is refreshing.
Another problem is that they mention connecting the Victorville line with a 50 mile spur over to Palmdale/Lancaster. Then down to the LA basin. Problem? The Metrolink trains going to LA have to go agonizingly slow to LA because of the deep downgrades along the way. While their trains can go 70 mph from Santa Clarita through Burbank to Union Station, the trains go 25-35 mph on the downhill portion. So the ride to LA can take up to 90 minutes. I know, I worked in Lancaster. So, you take a speedy train to Victorville, take a right turn for 50 miles to Lancaster, and then mope along into the LA Basin. No way, I'd rather take the 'Hound than this stupid idea.
fujita,
<<the idea of a private operator being willing to build and operate the DesertXpress is an idea worth supporting. if it succeeds, then other private investors might step up to build more high speed rail, or at least get involved in a public-private partnership.>>
what makes you think the DesertXpress will remain private? Most all train operators around the world work on subsidies. what makes you think this train service will be the exemption? it won't succeed whatsoever. this whole billing of the train as being privately funded is laughable.
The first leg of the maglev project only goes to PRIMM...not Anaheim at a cost to taxpayers of over a billion dollars. Does that make sense???
If you think, you guys dont support Desert Express because it is coterminus with Victorville(although with plans to connect HSR of California up to Palmdale), I think Maglev might end up to Primm only. Why? 1.) Their initial federal funding of first phase up to Primm is to serve passengers of Airline in a planned airport expansion at Primm Airport because Maccarran Airport is 95% full capacity. And this might be one of the objective in case nobody finance the Primm-Anaheim phase two. What happen if there is no more money from Primm to Anaheim? At least they have passengers from and to Primm Aitport. 2.) Remember State of California is no longer a member of a Las Vegas Rail Commission that support Maglev after State Cal's approval of HSR thru bond that support Sacramento/San Fransisco to San Diego via Palmdale, LA and Anaheim. Therefore I can foresee that they will support only rail lines which is compatible to their rail lines which is Desert Xpress. Therefore I support a project at least up to Victorville than a project which might end-only up to Primm.
Its clear that we need rail from Las Vegas to LA basin restored. Traffic continues to worsen and the commuter like drive between the two areas is inefficient. Is high speed rail going less than half-way really make sense? From California, you have already driven 2/3 of the way. Why stop to get on a train at that point?
Any rail solution needs to go from city center to city center.
That picture is misleading. Overhead catenaries do not just float in mid-air, you need poles at regular intervals to support them. But at least they've figured out that running trains on solar power is smarter than continued dependence on diesel, which also limits top speed. If the feds chip in, there's no good reason not to run DX trains at 220mph, same top speed as those on the California network.
As for the grand metropolis of Victorville, just get DX + Congress to also build a connector to the starter line of the California system and then use mutual trackage rights to offer *direct* trains from SF, LA and Anaheim to Las Vegas. Mojave to Barstow would be one option for that connector, Palmdale to Hesperia the other. Six one way, half a dozen the other.
At express HSR speeds, LA-LV via Palmdale isn't nearly as big a deal as it looks on the map. If and when the network expansion from LA to San Diego via Riverside happens *and* the ridership is there, it might make sense to consider building a second connector from Victorville to Colton.
Well before that, DX should start attaching high speed cargo trainsets to the ones for passengers to supply LV with fresh fish, produce etc. from California for additional relief on I-15. Cp. Fret GV, Carex:
http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2008/12/high-s...
If and when McCarran gets congested again, leverage the logistics airport at Victorville and/or Palmdale for air freight and extra passenger seats (conventions etc.) Scrap the relief airport at Ivanpah, build solar thermal power plants instead and export the juice to CA.
Uh hello everyone.... I'd just like to remind all of you in Las Vegas and Southern California that there are another 10-15 milllion folks up here north of the Tehachapis and that by connecting to the CaHSR in the high desert, you will tap into our market as well as the socal market. Now if you don't want our cash, and the cash from the pockets of all our international tourists who by the way ask about getting to vegas all the time ( Im an amtrak ticket agent) then we'll keep our, and their, the money here. San Francisco certainly whoops Vegas' butt when it comes to tourism anyway but we don't mind sending a something your way - but you gotta give 'em rail. They are asking for it.