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twitterTransportation:
Many hands out for stimulus rail money
Maglev system among them, but not rival DesertXpress
Leila Navidi
Sen. Harry Reid, right, listens as Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood speaks July 2 at a news conference to designate a high-speed-rail corridor.
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 | 2 a.m.
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Sun Archives
- A boost for DesertXpress (7-3-2009)
- Path clears for federal support of fast train to California (7-2-2009)
- High-speed train plan gets notice in D.C. (6-24-2009)
- Public or private, rail line will need major subsidies from government (6-14-2009)
- Maglev or DesertXPress, this could be your new ride (6-14-2009)
- Trade-offs between technologies include speed, cost (6-14-2009)
- Maglev train to press on without Reid (6-10-2009)
- Reid sides with Desert Xpress fast train option (6-9-2009)
- State sends no representative to talk on high-speed trains (6-5-2009)
- Obama outlines vision for high-speed rail network (4-16-2009)
- 8 states seek stimulus money for high-speed rail (4-15-2009)
- No waste in rail dream (3-5-2009)
- Economic crisis an opportunity to be greener (3-1-2009)
- Vegas, Midwest seek the $8 billion for fast trains (2-23-2009)
Washington — A moment of truth has arrived for Nevada’s two proposed fast-train lines competing for the passenger-rich route between Las Vegas and Southern California.
On Monday Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced that 40 states had submitted 270 high-speed rail pre-applications seeking to qualify for stimulus money.
Will the privately backed, $5 billion DesertXpress high-speed train between Las Vegas and Victorville, Calif., seek funding, even though its backers have promised they don’t need federal dollars?
Will the publicly backed, $12 billion magnetic levitation line between Las Vegas and Anaheim push forward, even after losing the support of its chief backer, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, because it had taken too long to develop?
The Transportation Department is not commenting on the proposals it received by Friday’s deadline.
But a spokeswoman for DesertXpress said the project did not pre-apply for funding because it intends to remain privately funded. (The project instead will seek federal government loans, which are available for up to 100 percent of the cost.)
The maglev line’s sponsors at the California Nevada Super Speed Train Commission did submit a pre-application for the project, a spokesman said.
In the end, it remains unclear whether Nevada will get any of the $8 billion now available for high-speed rail.
The Obama administration has launched an unprecedented outlay in rail as part of the economic recovery bill passed by Congress and signed into law this year. President Barack Obama’s budget has since requested another $5 billion over the next five years to further fund rail development.
Maglev is a technology untried on rail in this country, and LaHood said he expects most of the proposals will be for high-speed rail lines similar to those now operating in Europe and Asia.
LaHood noted that maglev proposals are very expensive.
“We’re going to consider proposals that are serious proposals, that have the kind of inter-modality, multi-state, regional approach,” LaHood told reporters during a roundtable at Transportation Department headquarters.
When asked if maglev would be considered a “serious” proposal, LaHood said, “I think it’ll be serious if we get one.”
Final applications are due next month.
Reid had been a longtime backer of the maglev train proposal as he sought a rail line between Las Vegas and Southern California, but he grew frustrated with the pace of development and switched his support to the upstart DesertXpress.
Traffic on the roads and in the air between the two destinations is at capacity, and the Las Vegas tourism industry depends on the easy flow of visitors from Southern California, who make up a great portion of the Strip visitors.
In a few short years the DesertXpress project has invested $25 million on engineering plans for the line to Victorville.
Critics say the Victorville line is a train to nowhere, as the high-desert outpost is 85 miles northeast of downtown Los Angeles. But project supporters envision giving travelers a Vegas-like experience from the time they step on the train for the ride across the desert.
DesertXpress supporters also see their train one day connecting to California’s proposed north-south line that is to make a stop in Palmdale, just west of Victorville, providing a connection into downtown Los Angeles.
DesertXpress is backed by Sig Rogich, a Republican political guru in Nevada who is a Reid supporter and co-chairman of Reid’s reelection group Republicans for Reid.
In early July, LaHood designated the Las Vegas-to-Southern California route a high-speed rail corridor, enabling a proposed line to qualify for stimulus money.
Already, 10 high-speed rail corridors exist nationwide, areas determined under previous administrations as focal points for fast-train development.
But LaHood downplayed the significance of the corridor designation, saying the department is open as it judges the best projects. “Even those that maybe are not as far along as other regions will be considered,” he said.
Neil Cummings, president of the American Magline Group, the private consortium of firms that would develop the maglev line, said the commission proposed building the first, 40-mile segment between Las Vegas and Primm. The cost would be $1.6 billion.
The group also submitted a second application to the Transportation Department for planning money to continue developing the line to Anaheim.
Cummings estimates the maglev project would be jointly financed with 20 percent to 50 percent in private investment.
Organizers of both projects promise to break ground in 18 months.
DesertXpress has maintained it will not seek public funds, but may apply for loans from the federal government through a project that is separate from the recovery funds. The group expects to finance 70 percent of the cost.
Rail experts have said no private rail lines exist because they are not profitable.
Discussion: 22 comments so far…
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I'd be delighted if those who say "maglev is very expensive" could back up their statement with arguments and/or figures.
The last thing we need is a train to nowhere.
If Too Big to Fail Senator Harry Reid'm and Weep get his family and BFF land deals paid for by Obama based on a fail rail business plan Nevada will lose big time.
"Rail experts have said no private rail lines exist because they are not profitable." Perhaps we should be listening to the 'experts' and NOT the Politicians. When will we ever learn?
Politics will make this decision, not economics or real need. The Senator decided he could quiet a major group of Republican voices and money by backing their train deal so it has his support. The economic needs of the state are way down the list below the personal needs of the Senator and his son.
The key to getting what you want in Nevada is to cut Rogich in on the deal. Rogich makes the phone calls.
This time Rogich called Senator Reid and even formed a "Republicans for Reid" committee. Reid then held his press conference dropping his support for maglev in support of Rogich's benefactors.
Examples abound. This is how we became burdened with the bankrupt Las Vegas Monorail.
And how Rogich made money on the LVCVA billboard concession. Etc, etc. The only time the strategy is known to have failed concerned a Stations Casino zoning application in North Las Vegas, where Rogich's angry phone call to the chairman of the gaming policy review committee was a day late.
Las Vegas has grown, but it has yet to grow up. In fact, it has grown too fast. Partly because one half the residents here at any given time have been here less than 10 years and either don't know or don't care, Boss Tweed is still in charge.
It is never trip fares that (don't) make a rail connection profitable, with the sole exception of the impressive Shinkansen in Japan.
It's always the economic growth and potential created by the rail connection that makes a line profitable by indirectly enabling wealth creation.
Therefore it is vital for the line to have easily accessible terminals located in the hearts of centres of population. The train to/from Victorville fails miserably in this regard.
The vastly superior Maglev can handle the challenging terrain between Los Angeles and Victorville and can be threaded easily into a LA central terminal due to Maglev's silent mode of operation, low-radius turn capabilities and elevated guideway. Maglev is the way to go.
Imagine if you will. 57 piglets, all jostling for teats on the emaciated stimulus sow, whose IV lines stretch all the way to China.
You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of hope and change, but of pork. A journey into a land of borrow and spend whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's the sign post up ahead, your next stop...Obama Zone.
Of course the more ambitious train to Anaheim would take longer than the hokey line to Victorville. Reid knew that when he supported the more ambitious maglev.
The London, New York, Boston, Moscow subways took decades to build. Cathedrals and other monuments in Europe sometimes took centuries.
But there will be no long-term projects for Las Vegas. No, sir. Not so long as there's quick money to be put into Rogich's pockets and campaign support for Harry Reid.
Applying 18 U.S.C. 1346 to Senator Reid is long overdue.
privately funded, yet loans by the federal government. oxymoron much?
'Surmoka', there are only 2 MagLev trains operating in the world and both are LESS than 40 miles long. The newest one, the one in China, was a major embarrassment during the 2008 Olympics (athletes, media, etc. late to events because of MagLev break-downs).
WHY throw $12B+ at unproven technology?
Unfortunately 'neiman1' is probably right, the decision will be made based on politics not economics. There is a real need. The I-15 is at capacity. But Boss Tweed (Rogich) indeed will need to get his/their share from one project or the other. ($25M in engineering costs so far? How many Bellagio/Caesar's spa treatments are included in that number?!)
The DesertXpress is the W2G and it wouldn't be a "train to nowhere" very long - unless we leave the decision to the same brainiacs/offshore bank accounts who decided NOT to connect the LV Monorail to McCarren Airport.
If only 8 billion is available to all states for high speed train projects what percentage can Nevada hope to get? A couple of hundred million?
Anybody who thinks Rogich is still an active player who speaks with authority needs to think about this;
Rogich was with the Luv Gov when he allegedly accosted Christie Mazzio [sic].
I guess he is trying to help Harry clean up his image. ROFLMAO
Why can't we have a train to Searchlight?
It seems like a train to Victorville would cater mostly to California residents.
The train to Anaheim would most likely cater to both California AND Las Vegas residents.
I'd ride it if I could go into Anaheim. Otherwise, what's the point if I still have to rent a car to drive another hour?!
Desert Excess will never pay back the 100% loan. Can you say bankrupt, I knew you could. Just another wonderful day in Mr. Rogich's neighborhood. I-15 is only "at capacity" on the weekends, the future could be a different story so if there must be a train to nowhere make it a car carrier train. No one wants to spend 6-8 hours on a 4 1/2 hour drive or make two connections to a line that isn't built yet and won't be because CA is totally broke, so increase the road capacity with rail. 10 to 1 it's still a bust.
'VegasVeniceDude', I don't know where you got your information from, but your allegation about Maglev "breakdowns" are entirely untrue.
The Shanghai Maglev line which you pertinently mentioned is clearly the most reliable public transport system in the world. Its track record is at 99.98% availability, with one sole "breakdown" due to a vehicle fire caused by Chinese cable tampering.
The Shanghai maglev has a cumulative delay of under 1 second over entire operating days and has never been out of service due to any type of failure for a single minute, save for the fire mentioned.
The DesertXpress has to rely on government loans because no bank would ever loan them the money. It will be profitable for the company to build the line, and it will create jobs so Reid will get bragging rights. But nobody will ride it, the loans will never be repaid, leaving the taxpayers with the bill. DesertXpress doesn't need public money? riiiiight
With all the money Harry wants to spend and with my taxes going up, up and up, I wonder if Harry will clean out a room so that I can move in with his wife and him. Harry is full of compassion for his sharecroppers is he not?
Harry Reid,
Bad for Nevada,
Bad for America!
DesertXpress will go bankrupt faster than the Las Vegas Monorail did. Then the government will be forced to subsidize and pick up the costs of that failed line.
I personally think the Maglev line will be too expensive, but the Maglev option is much more cost-effective than a train to nowhere.
Why doesn't Las Vegas and the Nevada government support an electric high-speed rail line like California is doing???
Who the hell wants to go to Palmdale in the future to transfer to LA? Ridiculous...
The worst part of the commute from LA to Vegas is the Cajon pass, just outside of LA. That portion needs high-speed rail the most!
Brought to you by the same folks who gave us the "MONORAIL TO NOWHERE"!!!
The monorail boondoggle should be a reminder to us that even though it's built with private funds, that is NOT always the best idea. The monorail was also supposed to be expanded to serve the strip from the airport and to evenually take passengers downtown "sometime in the future". That future will NEVER happen because there were only "private" studies to slant the monorail favorably to serve the strip and NOT the community at large. It's a failure.
And what in G-d's name am I supposed to do when I get to Victorville, huh? Shop at the Victorville Mall?
We just came back from a 4 day vacation at Disneyland. Robert and I saw GREAT airfares to the L.A. area. 49 bucks each way...but to rent a car in L.A. was outrageous!!! Nothing for under 300.00 for the couple of days...economy car, no less! We drove instead.
If there was a high speed train going from our home here in Vegas directly to the Anaheim resort area at a competitive price to the airfare, where we wouldn't have to rent a car...BINGO! And there would be a GREAT oppertunity for our resorts here in Vegas to market themselves for profitable day trips (like Atlantic City, anybody?) or even package deals for overniters. Plenty of folks visiting Anaheim for a week from all over the country would love to spend some time here in Las Vegas...and try something unique to get here...a high speed mag-lev train like we see in Japan.
Hell, when we were in Europe taveling between London to Paris we took the "chunnel" instead of flying because of the unique experiance.
To Senator Reid, I supported the President's stimulus package in the hope that we would invest in NEW technologies for the future.
Any money spent on this train to Victorville is a total waste! We are fortunate to travel and we would NEVER use this!
Stuart & Robert Wyman-Cahall
Las Vegas, NV 89142
Ok,its the year 2020. Everyone got there money. And yet,not one rail is laid in place!Wait a min we need more money for this impact report now!Reid do us all a favor and just resign.Or if your gonna talk the talk,walk the walk! We shall all see how sen flip flop gos his way now.His pockets will be full!!!
I get a kick out of the people here who believe that Harry can be beaten in 2010. He's still riding the top wave of success from the 06 and 08 elections and nothing his detractors do will unseat him. If only he was running in 12.....when the voting public sours with Obama and his spendandtaxcrats.....???
I like train travel. I believe that the hype about high-speed rail, desert-express, is all pork barrel spending. Why not use the "ear-marked" money for upgrading the poor state of train travel in the US? The "If you build it they will come" mentality works for Hollywood, but any business person will tell you that massive market research is the only smart way to commit massive amount of money to any project. As usual in the current rubber-stamp Congress, whatever the President wants, he gets. 2010 is coming -- vote out Harry Reid, get some balance in Congress.