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Chris Morris
Thursday, June 14, 2012 | 2 a.m.
Sun coverage
- Firefighters sue Clark County over law barring supervisors from joining union (04-16-2012)
- Tentative county fire pact calls for 2-year pay freeze, end to longevity bonus (03-23-2012)
- Study: County firefighters’ average compensation dips to $175,000 from $189,000 (03-08-2012)
- Clark County firefighters to stop collecting for charity while on duty (03-05-2012)
- Firefighters’ newfound health has me feeling a little sick (03-02-2012)
A federal lawsuit by battalion chiefs of the Clark County Fire Department against the county disappeared Tuesday with little fanfare.
Fearful that county officials might decertify their union, the “batt-chiefs” sued the county after the county refused to guarantee it would not make a decertification attempt. The matter was quickly ended in court, though, when the county agreed not to seek decertification — for now.
But given the ongoing disputes between firefighter unions and local government — which includes Clark County, Las Vegas and North Las Vegas — political observers say the lawsuit is the last thing that either Clark County or its Fire Department needed.
Both sides face a monumental money issue in less than two years when the county has to prepare its budget by looking through a crystal ball to determine whether voters will decide in late 2014 to renew a 20-year-old tax that raises about $15 million per year for Fire Department operations and capital expenses.
Once again, the observers say, the lawsuit highlighted stark differences between unionized public employees and those who work in the private sector. Those differences have had devastating effects on public employee unions around the country, perhaps exemplified by the landslide victory Wisconsin voters gave in a recall election last week to Gov. Scott Walker, who has eviscerated public employee unions through laws attacking collective bargaining.
And in San Diego and San Jose, voters supported moves to place new public employees on 401(k)s, the type of retirement programs provided to many in the private sector.
It’s no great stretch to say that public employee unions are under siege around the country. But in Clark County, news related specifically to firefighter unions over the last three years has been a public relations disaster.
Firefighters with the North Las Vegas Fire Department on the scene of a fire Friday, March 2, 2012. After refusing to accept concessions and facing layoffs, firefighters want the city to consolidate the department with another valley fire department.
Public disputes have erupted over contract talks between unions and city and county officials.
Las Vegas and its firefighter unions have just declared a contract talk impasse. The union has asked for what amounts to $12 million in additional wages and benefits over a two-year period.
In North Las Vegas, city officials blame the firefighters and other unions for refusing to give up some wages or benefits in a non-contract year as the city struggles to overcome a massive deficit.
Last year, Clark County fired two firefighters, alleging they abused the county’s sick-leave system, booking sick days as vacation days. Closer scrutiny of sick-leave by administrators seemed to support the county’s notion, as firefighter sick-leave fell by 57,000 hours over roughly two years.
But then the other shoe dropped. Independent arbitrators ruled the county overstepped its bounds and had no right to terminate those two firefighters. Within the last few months, both were ordered back to work with full pay and any missed back-pay.
Then two weeks ago, one of those firefighters, Donald Munn, filed a federal lawsuit against the county alleging defamation, invasion of privacy and violations of the Family Medical Leave Act. The suit will keep the sick-leave issue in the minds of voters for months to come.
Asked if voters, a typically fickle and sometimes-forgetful lot, will forget about all this business in 17 months when the tax renewal is on the ballot, former County Manager Thom Reilly said, “That will be difficult.”
“With all the recent attention by firefighters in general and the arbitrators’ recent rulings, it’s going to be a hard sell,” Reilly said. “Raising taxes is a challenge in any environment, but when you’ve had this much media attention specifically targeted to firefighters, it’s going to be much tougher.”
Donald Munn gets a hug from his disabled adopted son Brian, 21, at their home in Henderson Thursday, March 8, 2012. Munn, a former Clark County firefighter, says the fire department fired him for abusing sick leave but Munn says he needed to take the sick leave to care for his son. Brian Munn suffers from fetal alcohol syndrome.
A local political consultant doesn’t think voters will be able to forgive.
“I’ll just say that if the economy is worse, it’s going to be even harder,” he said. “If the economy is growing and people start building houses, it’ll pass in a second.”
In his view, the only chance to change minds is to scare voters.
“You have to scare the public into looking past all the things we just discussed,” he said, “because right now people see public employee unions as getting things that no one else in the world gets. Period. So there has to be something dramatic. You have to scare them past the realities of current-day life.”
Reilly, who was the Clark County manager from 2001 to 2006, is a professor of social work at San Diego State University and president/CEO of the Reilly Group, a consulting firm to public, private and nonprofit/nongovernmental organizations.
He is currently promoting his book, “Rethinking Public Sector Compensation: What Ever Happened to the Public Interest?” (M.E. Sharpe, publisher).
Reilly said work would have to start now showing firefighters and government were working hand-in-hand to solve fiscal problems. Then the county — that means union members, county elected officials and county staff — have to start justifying the tax, which amounts to 5.27 cents per $100 of assessed property value. It went into effect in 1996 and expires in 2016 but will be voted upon in November 2014.
The Sun could not reach Ryan Beaman, president of the county firefighters union, for comment. County Manager Don Burnette said county officials and the union had been building a stronger relationship over the last year or so.
“That’s good for the firefighters, the county and good for everybody,” Burnette said.
In recent years, in fact, the county has cut $11 million in Fire Department expenses, mostly because overtime payouts declined, a result partly attributable to the decline in sick days. In addition, the county and union have more quickly adopted new contracts, where just a few years ago they fought all the way to arbitration.
But Reilly said overcoming years of bad press is going to take more than a story or two in the paper.
Firefighters fundraising on the corner of Rainbow and Flamingo for "Fill The Boot" on Friday April 13, 2012.
“They need to tell everyone where the money will go, and 17 months is not a long time,” he said. “And there have to be additional reforms in public pay. That means statewide changes but also any changes you can make at the local level.”
He had specific ideas, including:
• Working with state lawmakers to change state law: Instead of taking disputed contract terms to an outside arbitrator, send them to locally elected officials for a final decision.
“I think that would be significant,” Reilly said. “No one could say, ‘Well, it’s out of our hands.’ You’d have people living and elected in the community being ultimately responsible.”
• Opening collective bargaining meetings to the public, making them subject to the state’s open meeting laws.
• Putting a moratorium on any wage or benefit increases.
• State laws need to be worked on to change a system that allows public employees to get health care in perpetuity if they keep paying the monthly premium upon retirement. That holds even after they become eligible for Medicare. Reilly suggests enacting a law to force the employee to drop the health insurance when Medicare kicks in.
“These are great ideas,” said County Commissioner Steve Sisolak. “After the two arbitration cases we had, to me the system is broken.”
Sisolak said he is getting a growing number of calls from “disgusted” voters angry at increasing water and other fees, stewing as they sit and watch unions and public employees seek more wages and benefits.
Asked to consider what he would do if he were the county manager and had to face the prospect of up to a $15 million drop in funds for the Fire Department, Reilly said people would likely lose their jobs.
“You’re going to have fewer employees around,” he said. “There’s just no other way to do the math. To reduce cost, you have to reduce your personnel.”
Why hasn't there been a wholesale firing of the county firefighter management? They allowed the gaming of the system. Also where is the DA and FBI in filing criminal charges on the firefighters for fraud? These firefighters stole money from the taxpayers. When are they going to jail for it?
There needs to be a housecleaning, if they don't other employees will see that you can fraudulently obtain money from taxpayers and get away with it.
Bet, excuse the pun you could find a lot of firefighters or others who would like to work for the fire dept. and with less pay from other areas of the country.
Public employees have better retirements and generally pay then Pvt. non union sector employees.
Governor from Wisconsin got it right and so has two cities in California. Public sector unions are breaking local governments.
And we the people, tax payers are tired of paying high property taxes.
In my house 20yrs, value the same now as then and venture to say the amount of taxes won't be the same.
when firemen average 175K a year...
THEY MUST BE CRUSHED!!!
It's simple. Firefighters in southern Nevada make plenty of money and benefits. They don't need any raises in the near future, and that money can go towards operations and capital expenses. The more public the negotiations are made the more the community will side with the County.
every time i see a fireman...
i tell them exactly what i think of them...
the look on their faces...
PRICELESS!!!
no violence of course...
did you get that...
never violence...
never even the threat of violence...
violence is for idiots...
but...
if these clowns think i am going to respect them...
hee hee hee...
hoo hoo hoo...
haa haa haa...
this is america...
express your opinion boys and girls...
like i said...
PRICELESS!!!
"Why hasn't there been a wholesale firing of the county firefighter management?"
isn't this the new definition of corruption?
why do the morons from the county always take their sledge hammer off the table at the beginning of negotiations???
hmmm???
are they the worst negotiators of all time???
are they in bed with the firemen???
who the hell knows???
i don't...
but i do know this...
they must be fired...
and replaced with competent negotiators!!!
When they clean house and prosecute the FF's that abused the system, then we can sit down and talk. They have allowed thieves to be not held accountable for thier actions. The FF's deserve no respect until they are taught to respect the position they hold.
I can give you my vote now... NO!
Chuck333,
Those are my sentiments exactly. FF's were caught gaming the system...stealing money...and the only two who were punished were given their jobs back by an arbi-traitor.
Until the FF unions are disbanded and a new system is installed everyone of the overpaid armchair day room bums can go to heck. I am tired of the system rewarding the scofflaws who abuse it and are then powerless to enforce any actions.
If the FF's feel their contributions to society are so noble then they can come back to work as volunteers.
This is so disgusting that just like the family of a murder victim who shows up at a parole hearing to squash the release of the perpa-traitor....I will lead the charge as 2014 approaches to make sure the citizens with short attention spans remember how badly they were fleeced.
Decertify the union and let's move on. Things will not continue as they have been and they want more? Clearly the firefighters are not willing to be reasonable. So let's move on with the dirty work that has to be done. Unconscionable that the union would play dirty--we have the RIGHT TO DECERTIFY.
A local political consultant says "You have to scare the public into looking past all the things we just discussed," .....
Pretty sad state of the current political environment nationwide these days.
For years the County Commission approved a very generous contract for the firefighters. No one cared, including Thom Reilly, UNTIL the money from the taxpayers dried up.
No firefighter stole. The commission GAVE it to them.
The reason the county lost the arbitrations was because the contract was so generous. The reason sick leave dropped was because the contract was changed. The commission always had the power to control the firefighters, but FAILED to use it.
Vote NO on renewal. Let the prima donnas sell more calendars or work the strip clubs if they can't make ends meet. Taxing the hell out of citizens has got to STOP. My house can't catch on fire. It's underwater, with no relief in sight.
I am sick and tired of the poor woes of teachers, firefighters, police and the like, getting press everyday, day in and day out and nobody gives a royal crap about the construction workers, the the small businesses that have closed or are closing because they are choked out. What is wrong with all these articles? My god people, real estate companies, builders, none have any control.
An article was released by the RJ yesterday that explained the state is actually 59 million above projections for the year. It is that way because there is no union. When concessions were needed, state employees took it in the shorts, no votes or input at all. Furloughs, pay cuts, benefit reductions and premium rates skyrocketing, frozen merit increases and no longevity pay. These cuts equaled hundreds of millions of dollars saved for the state. Unions have given up very little if not anything at all (teachers). So now they will whine when they are laid off or stay and have to do more work because there are fewer of them. The finger can be pointed directly at the unions. They just don't seem to get that when there is no money to pay employees that something has to give.
Remember back in the day before all this scamming the system was exposed how many vehicles driving around town had the firefighter license plates? Every other overpriced jacked up 4 wheel drive truck and Hummer had them. Now you rarely see these plates. Wonder why? Could it be that these people feel guilty about something or dont want to bring attention to themselves? Firefighters like every other public servant job is necessary. But these people make way too much money for the amount of work they do. I live right down the street from a fire station and I can tell you that there are days that that firetruck never leaves the building.
I think we should place police officers at fire stations and only have them respond. Quit these cruising around routes that really net nothing. If fire men and ambulance can respond quickly, so can police. We could cut the costs of vehicles, maintenance, fuel and the same goes for the fire dept. If they can park on the corner with a boot, they can inspect for fire safety for businesses. Cut the crap out of the employee list.
Greedy, greedy, firefighters. An absolute waste of tax payer money.
i'm going to save the taxpayers some money.
i'll work for the fire dept for only $150 k per year.
of course that will include benefits.
that's only 'cause i love las vegas.
Nice plug for Reily's book, wonder I he is refusing his pensions from Clark County and now as a professor in San Diego as a public employee???
The Sun should write about that story and Sisolak's longevity payments he receives and earns a pension from???
I doubt it
I hope you clowns in the fire department enjoyed gaming and ripping off the taxpayer all of these years because it is going to come to a screeching halt....there is NO WAY property owners are going to renew or pass ANY tax if even a penny is going to you pack of thieves.
I for one won't forget, and I won't let anyone else forget either.
NO NEW TAXES or RENEWALS EITHER.
FUFF
The $15 mil. the fire department would lose in funding WHEN the tax does NOT get renewed would only amount to 75 firefighters LAID OFF, fewer if you lay off the higher paid ones!
Problem solved!!
NO NEW TAXES
There is no such thing as a temporary tax! Once they get it, it's theirs!
Sorry heros, but that gravy train has run dry. No one is going to go for taxes to support the extravagant lifestyles of these so called civil servants. They should be truly ashamed of themselves for the con they have been perpetrating for years.
It is time to CUT TAXES until our economy can function again. Amazing to see Obama issue an executive order to give WORK PERMITS to illegals. And he keeps "saying" we need jobs--who for? 7 million illegals in non-agricultural jobs while 14 million Americans face long-term unemployment, destitution and homelessness. Executive order sounds "unconstitutional" as a direct violation of law--if they are illegal they CANNOT be given government assistance in ANY FORM.
Awesome Joe. Yet another quality biased article written by your handlers. I like the little plug for Thom and his book. Funny how he wasn't vocal when he actually worked for the County. I'm sure through the kindness of his heart he has rejected his PERS retirement to help fix what he was incapable of doing during his tenure. Have you ever yet interviewed anyone from the other side of this story? Oh that's right we can't or we will be fired or disciplined.
Yet again 700 folks are smeared by their own organization with misleading figures that they have provided to you that you have never investigated. You get quotes from the same people every time too. Weird.
Can't wait for the FBI and Metro report to come out on all the fraud and abuse. Seems like it's taking a long time they must really have a lot of stuff! We are so corrupt that we have 2 seperate arbitrators in our pockets. Wow. We are right up there with the Gambino family.
I agree with the comment above...the firefighter union did what every union does...try to get the most for their members while doing the least amount of work. I'm not implying that firefighters don't work hard, I'm just saying that's what the unions try to do. Taxpayers really can't be too angry at the union...we should be furious at the commission and vote anyone out that supported that budget in the first place.
I'm going to get a lot of heat for this, but the hate for ALL firefighters has to stop. The guys that abused overtime should be fired. That I understand. And the other firefighters shouldn't say anything different. But there are a lot of really good people in that department that don't deserve the hate that they get. These guys benefitted from a good deal that our elected representatives approved. We should be angry at our politicians and ourselves for voting for them.
To add on to my comment. In addition to overtime/sick leave abusers being fired, compensation packages for the firefighters needs a dramatic adjustment. That's going to be tough for guys that bought big houses and live a lifestyle based on their existing salaries, so we need to take that into consideration when planning the adjustment.
To improveLV:
THANK YOU.