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Thursday, March 8, 2012 | 4:18 p.m.
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A new employee compensation study by Clark County administrators shows average firefighter compensation dipped to $175,000 in 2011 from about $189,000 in fiscal year 2010.
Almost all of the decline stems from a drop in overtime pay to firefighters. During the last two years, overtime compensation for firefighters fell from $17.4 million in 2009 to $10.5 million in 2011. In 2009, overtime made up 24 percent of a firefighters' wages; in 2011, it made up 15 percent.
The decline can be traced, in large part, to firefighters calling in sick less often. Over the last two years, firefighters called in sick a total of 57,000 fewer hours.
When co-workers are called to fill-in for a sick firefighter, they typically receive overtime payments — which is 1.5 times their regular, hourly wage. They can also qualify for "callback pay," under which they not only get overtime but also a contribution to their retirement account.
It was a past compensation report that revealed Clark County’s firefighters were calling in sick almost twice as often as rank-and-file county employees and at about four times the rate of management. The figures prompted Commissioner Steve Sisolak to claim firefighters were gaming the system in an effort to accrue more overtime. E-mail among firefighters and their supervisors showed some were planning sick leaves far in advance, and combining them with vacation time.
The 44-page compensation report breaks down the wages and benefits of 11 categories of county employee.
oh gee, poor firefighters!
Thats the AVERAGE! That is disgusting to claim hero status and require that kind of pay for protection. Thats extortion! Thats almost $2,000 a shift!
Oh my God...we'll need to throw a benefit for them!
Probably the highest in the nation.
Can we afford that ...NO!
Over Paid !!!$3,500 a Week ??? $175,000 Thousand Dollars a Year ???How Many Fires Will A Fireman Go To In A Year??? The Money Well is Drying Up FAST!!!
This is clearly an area where bipartisan support should be applied. Annual pay should be about one third of actual. Police and fire pay (and pensions--a huge percent are able to work all their lives but retire on large percentage disability) are way out of line. Taxpayers and voters will support drastic cuts. Compare police and fire pay with what we pay educators or military.
whoever wrote this headline should be fired...
it should read...
county fire fighters still make a ridiculously high wage which will surely bankrupt the county...
perhaps we should consider passing legislation that destroys the union!!!
Absurd. And I think people need to keep this in mind when they pigeonhole all public employees and teachers and the like into the same or at least a similar category when attacking public employee pay and benes. I know teachers and other public employees with master's degrees in their chosen fields who make significantly less than half of the firefighters average and "new and improved and reduced," pay scale. How did this happen? Did we not ever do any national comparison studies with other municipalities before setting the pay scales? What public officials were asleep at the wheel when that didn't happen? They should at least have their hands slapped as well.
CCFD is over paid and under worked. I am tired of seeing these reported firefighters taking the taxpayers shiny big truck to the grocery store to buy dinner or to the athletic club to work out on the taxpayer dime. The entire system needs revamped.
A future story needs to be on how pay got to that insane level. Where was the oversight. Who failed? How does the county get pay down to where it should be?
Still not a bad salary. Just clean up the way retirement is calculated. It needs to be based on "base" salary. firefighters have no reason to not be able to plan for retirement with a $175 conpensation. My guess would be that the average compensation for the firefighters planning to retire in three years are at the highest end of the average.
Unbelievable! I am all for unions to help a person make a living, but these wages are tantamount to robbing the taxpayers of their hard earned money at gun point. These wages are totally unjustified for any public job. These people should be making $50-60 grand a year at the most. Highest level firefighters in Utah don't even make $40 grand. No wonder the local governments in Vegas are in such bad shape financially. Changes need to be made and restitution to be paid to combat this CORRUPTION!
175k, that's it!! How can they even pay their light bills?
I say the community should unite as one and have a "Fire Fighter Boot Drive" for these poor boys!
Reading this baloney makes a person's body hair stand up. Very irritating that the taxpayers are getting stuck in the keester paying these rediculous wages.
I hope Steve gave you some lap time for this story Joe,that is what it is a story. It is funny how many people still buy this propaganda.
Joe is Steve's lap dog and will print anything he says. How did Steve get a commish job, oh ya, he sued the county (thats you people) for how many MILLIONS? $17,$19? I forgot, over what air space? Somthing smells funny. And how is it he dates a woman with multiple substance abuse problems for 5 years and claims he is the poor victim? He cant figure out this lady has problems?....Again smells.
Press confrences in front of Metro over criminal Firefighters,criminal ladyfriends. I cant wait to see does poor Steve wrong next, after all, he is up for re-election. What are you going to do when your only story producer is gone Joe?
The national average for a firefighter in the U.S. is $43,000.
Why do we have to pay four times that in Clark County? Looks like we have more to cut.
Considering what's happened there needs to be more firings at CCFD. If an employee steals they should be fired right?
Hmm, I hope everyone takes the time to read the report, because apparently Joe S. hasn't. $65,338 is the AVERAGE BASE PAY for firefighter's. This is in the County report. I didn't just imagine it. And I find it interesting the County lumps in the required Worker's Comp fees or other taxes they are required to pay, as a BENEFIT. Everyone should be realistic. When you look at the job openings, public or private, you don't see them saying "You will be making $118,00 this year, but wait, your take home is actually $60,000, because the big $118,00 includes health insurance and the employer taxes we have to pay, and your vacation leave, sick leave, and the holidays off." This is bad journalism, but it's not surprising. Apparently, bashing fire fighters is still a sexy journalistic thing to do.
Tell me where it hurts.
Try checking all monies donated by your local fire unions and trace them to your politicians, current and past. Check the voting records of the politicians and follow the money to your conclusions.
That's a bogus national average.... That includes ever ok dunk two firefighter town in the USA. Probably volunteer as well.
Do some of you not realize this is lasvegas! There is billions of dollars on that strip and our way of life to protect here. That is a reasonable wage. I'm. OT a firefighter nor do I even know one.
In addition this has always been do to BUDGETED overtime!... Do any of u know what that means? Means the county plans for it and it's CHEAPER.. Than hiring more.
Ps.... I'd like to see any of u out in one of the firefighters gear in July training in this burning buildings!... That might be fun when you are 21.... But in case u didn't know they still have to do it at 45.... They are well worth it...
Ps... As with the police I'd rather pay the firefighters. Police n teachers than my money go to a bunch of welfare drug dealers living in 4000 sq foot section 8 housing
We should have a special tax just for folks like RebelJedi. I'm sure he would sign right up to pay extra to support the "reasonable wage".
I agree the compensation looks excessive and should be adjusted. I would like to know who approved these contracts? The sun should name the individuals who voted to approve the labor contracts. When times were good local governments in NV overspent recklessly and the press and the folks looked the other way. Sorry, we all own this one.
mrss,
I agree that citizens should read the report but that's not gonna' happen because the fire haters commenting on this story are only headline readers. They buy a provocative headline hook, line and sinker and all their opinions are formed by reading a headline written by a minimum wage reporter. They're just losers and malcontents who made poor decisions in their life and they now resent those that made good job decisions. Most probably couldn't even pass the background test, much less make it through an Academy.
The good news is they are in the average income range of people who buy Chevy Volts!
Comment removed by moderator. Name Calling
Yeah...Id like to see some of you go out in July and train for hours wearing all that gear.....day after day. they arent exactly sitting aroudn doing nothing. Unlike the rest of us that can sit on our fat cans in our forties, as we progress through the raks at our jobs, they must continue to maintain fitness, and preparedness. It only take one casino fire to see there worth. Or your own house. They are paid for what they CAN do, and what they train to do.
I'm not a big fan of using the figure 'Average compensation' when talking about pay issues. It's rather misleading to most people, and is usually used in an inflamatory manner to make things appear worse than they are, or to sway public opinion. A better way for the administrators to frame compensation would be to list average base pay, plus average incentive pay (overtime, night differential, holiday pay, etc.) since those are figures that most people could relate to. Stating 'Average compensation' gives most people the impression that that figure is pay only, and I'm sure the administrators are quite aware of that.
Las Vegas Salaries should be competitive with Major Metro Areas of Similar Size. Las Vegas High Rises should be taxed extra, for they are the ones for which all the special Training and additional High Rise Equipment is needed. Otherwise Las Vegas is basically a Low Rise City comparable to many very small towns.
Pensions should be Frozen for Current Government Employees and a 401K matching fund created, as it is in today's Private Corporations.
Where are the commissioners and councils? Where is the steweardship of our tax dollars? Why are they rubber stamping "negotiated" pay raises???? FREEZE COMPENSATION (reduce whenever possible) and see how many leave, how many vacancies we can't fill at lower pay levels?????
This is outrageous compensation--for firefighters, teachers, city, county, school district administrators. Local pay averages about $30K. Why are we paying taxes to support "employees" at such outrageous levels? Businesses do NOT pay tax--any and all of it is passed on to customers--people.
oh no! how will this sickly bunch ever survive?
So we have to pay these people those salaries because what? nobody else could do the job?
If you want to know why Health Care costs so much, it is in part to pay firefighters these ridiculous salaries to play ambulance attendant. Call 911 and the fire department shows up, why? Because if they didn't they would have to explain why they spend 90% of their time sleeping, shopping for groceries, and cooking the latest creation off the Food Channel for themselves.
This is nothing but a racket. I find this issue insulting frankly. The salaries are insulting. The personal cars and trucks these people drive around town insulting. There needs to be a thorough housecleaning of this mislabeled Department. This is not about Fire Science, this is no different than what Wall Street does, a racket to soak the public.
Sorry but $175K should not be in any story about firefighter pay...this pure out and out corruption at work here.
If you citizens stand for it you deserve what you get.
Las Vegas really is a cesspool...firefighters steal from the county, cops murder and assault people, casinos rip off their customers and don't pay adequate taxes...etc.
If I wasn't 200k underwater on the house I would be out of here in a heartbeat.
Based on the information here we are paying these people almost $500 PER day no matter if they are working or not. $175,000 by 365 days= $479
http://fire.co.clark.nv.us/%28S%28u5qfy5...
In 2010 according to their own records, they responded to apx 10 "fire incidents" per day. While they responded to 284 "medical responses" per day. I think we can see the problem here. Why are we sending unnecessary personnel and equipment to calls for a paramedic? Well because it is very profitable be the answer. The bagholders are the taxpayers of Clark County.
Rather than continually comparing salaries to national averages or big city averages, how about comparing them to Clark County averages? (Or county averages for those with 2/4 year degrees?) I'd like to see those numbers before discussing what's "fair" when it comes to public employee pay scales.
It IS ridiculous when articles show the per employee cost to the county, as opposed to the actual compensation that the employees receive. It shows that the paper has a clear agenda. That said, based on what I know about other government entities, the health and retirement benefits are probably way out of whack compared to the private sector. I'd rather see each category (base compensation, insurance, retirement, other benefits) and compare them to a) averages in the country for firefighters, b) averages for all public sector employees (requiring similar education/training), and c) total averages in the country (both public and private sector) for jobs that require similar levels of education and training.
To the (I'm assuming) firefighter that commented above about preferring to pay police, firefighters, and teachers rather than supporting drug addicts. I agree, but there's a HUGE discrepancy between what you and the police make as compared to the teachers. And the teachers require MUCH more education and training. So you can't really lump that group together. One is getting screwed while the others appear to be making out like bandits.
I've made this comment before...a few years ago, there was a waiting list of qualified FF candidates. I'm guessing that's still the case. If so, basic principles of supply and demand would suggest that we could dramatically lower the compensation packages until the supply of qualified candidates meets the county's demand for firefighters. That wouldn't be an emotional decision, it would be based purely on economics. That's what should be done, in my opinion. Take emotion and theory out of the equation and base the decision purely on available data.
Cut their pay to 45-50k. BLM firefighters make like 11 or so an hour. Last time I checked fire is fire.
175K year...that's all! What an outrage.
Surely this is not supposed to invoke any sympathy now is it?
WOW....how will they ever survive? Maybe the citizens should take up a collection to help them out...that's still around 12 times what the worker at the sandwich shop makes...all for sitting around on your arse for most of the day.
Joe Schoenmann--- Seeing that your office is located at the Clark County government building and you only report on stories associated with Clark County and/or Steve Sisolak, will you please do an honest report on both topics? I am specifically referring to the lawsuit that was won by Steve Sisolak in 2005 in which he sued Clark County and won a 23.5 million dollar settlement. I have heard this topic brought up several times in these comment sections but NO ONE will report on it or even discuss the details. Was that 23.5 million dollar lawsuit taxpayer money or was that money funded from other sources?
Taking the 23.5 million dollar settlement that Steve Sisolak won from Clark County and breaking it down using the 175,000 dollar total compensation for fire fighters that you provided in this story this equates to on average:
131 firefighters for one year
65 firefighters for two years
44 firefighters for three years
33 firefighters for four years
26 firefighters for five years
21 firefighters for six years
18 firefighters for seven years
5 firefighters for a total 25 year employment
OR
Fund ONE man's lavish millionaire lifestyle and/or to use towards further investments and business ventures to make tens of millions more that benefit Just him.
Will you please break down the lawsuit and explain where that money came from and the details of Steve Sisolak's argument why he was deserving of such a large amount of tax payer dollars?
I got a better story for Joe to look into....how about digging deep into the inner-workings of the fire department. How many are either hard-core or at least casual drug users? Are they using recreational drugs on their off days then going into work? Are the drugs still in their system? Do we have random drug testing for these public employees responsible for public safety?
That would be a good place to start, but believe me the corruption runs even deeper.
The people are to blame, if the people demanded to do away with the union, and pay reasonable wages, they would have no choice but to accept it. The problem is we the people have allowed this to go on.
So they are getting paid average $175k to drive around town, put out an occasional fire and respond to medical calls that a PRIVATE county contracted company transports to the hospital? Do these guys actually work? Sounds like fraud to me. I heard on the radio the other morning that private paramedics are some of the lowest paid people. A quick google search tells me they make between $40 - $50k and we are paying the fire guys $175k to stand around?!
Ill tell you why NVTAXI, aka Private Ambulance Driver. You speak of a 50,000 dollar private company paramedic and compare salaries. You failed to provide the additional benefits and total compensation that private ambulance drivers also receive from the company on top of their pay that includes overtime, health benefits, insurances, and retirement contributions. Private ambulance companies are solely based on one thing and one thing only which is profit. If the company is loosing profits then they adjust to bare minimums and reduce staffing levels to increase profits. If profits continue to drop and the company is unable to increase revenue then they shut down the operation. That has occurred in several other states and Vegas is not immune to that one day possibly happening. I worked many years for both local ambulance companies and have first hand knowledge of this occurring. Non-emergency transports have precedence over 911 emergency calls due to the money it brings in. Both private ambulance service and fire department service are extremely important in this valley. But the private sectors number one main priority is profit whereas the fire department is solely based on customer service. So lets NOW compare apples to apples. All the private ambulance driver can do is respond to medical calls. Firefighter train for weekly, respond to, and mitigate:
- "that occasional fire" (that "occasionally" rescue the occupants and stop the spread of fire inside and to adjoining structures.)
- medical calls (which "often times" they are first onscene and treating the patient minutes prior to the ambulance company arriving)
- vehicle accidents (which people "occasionally" need to be cut from their vehicle and AGAIN are onscene several minutes prior to the ambulance service)
- Hazardous material responses
- rescue calls that require specialized tools, training, and expertise
- business inspections and school drills that are mandated by state and local governments
- maintain tens of millions or dollars in specialized tools and equipment to be ready at a moments notice for that "occasional call"
- the less dramatic service call to homes (often of the elderly and physically incapable) and to businesses for broken water pipes, smoke and carbon monoxide detectors that are in alarm or need batteries changed, lift assist for people unable to get up on their own, investigating odors and locating the source, welfare checks of people that haven't been seen or heard from by family members, etc...
- firefighters are ALWAYS available and are NOT able to go on strike or walk off the job like the private company has threatened before
- many other services and calls the private ambulance company does not do or perform due to lack of training, lack of equipment, lack of personnel available, is not their responsibility, and is not profitable.
Id also like to point out that a large amount of individuals from the private ambulance service that have been hired by the fire departments have voluntarily quit, washed out cause they are physically and mentally incapable, or have been fired due to several other factors within weeks of starting. Certain individuals commenting on here complain of firefighters working out on duty. Your complaining that they are training to be stronger, physically fit, and healthy to be prepared for the demanding job they do. Working out and training increases and protects the investment and provides and better service and product to the taxpayer. Whether they're at the gym or at the grocery store they are available and ready at a moments notice to respond to ANY emergency call. If you call 911 for an emergency you will get several highly trained and physically capable firefighters to perform ANY function your emergency requires.
bornandraised, if you guys were really as busy as you like to claim, you wouldn't even attempt to go to the gym because you would know it would be immediately interrupted. The fact that you do go to the gym means that you know you can usually find a good length of time when you are doing nothing.
Also, is part of the customer service you guys provide swindling tax-payers for OT?
Instead of attacking the private ambulance drivers, how about attacking the pedophile captain, or the frauder who was stealing money from the burn foundation. Spare me this idea of being highly trained and irreplaceable. You can tell yourself that, but the informed public is on to you. Luckily for you, most of the public is uninformed.
Im not attacking private ambulance workers. Im attacking the priorities of the corporation, how the corporation conducts it's business, and what task and duties the private ambulance paramedic can perform compared to a firefighter. Private ambulance drivers are paid less cause they perform less duties, have less training, and have less responsibilities of what the fire service is required to have, maintain, and deliver. The comparison of the salaries of firefighters vs private paramedics was also a complete false claim. You used a 50,000 BASE salary and compared it to a 175,000 dollar TOTAL COMPENSATION. What is the TOTAL COMPENSATION of a private ambulance paramedic? As far as the gym goes, you can NEVER plan a time when you know you will be doing "nothing" as you stated. You can NEVER predict a time you will be doing "nothing." Your claims suggest that we can pick a time of day that we can assure nothing is going to occur. That's like a cop saying im going to take my lunch between 12 and 1 cause I know for a fact that crime will not happen during that hour. If you can get in 20-30 minutes of working out before getting a call that interrupts your training thats still 20-30 minutes more than saying, "why bother, its just going to get interrupted." That just like saying why bother to eat lunch or dinner cause more than likely its just going to get interrupted. Business inspections and school drills are also interrupted by emergency calls so those calls take priority and are responded to immediately. Your overtime claim I agree with but "you guys" is a false statement also. There was a small handful that purposefully swindled the system. Those individuals are gone and that problem has been corrected. Overtime is a thing of the past cause of the over hiring that has occurred over the past 2 years. They hired more people to fill in for vacation and sick spots to lower the cost of overtime. But by increasing the workforce they increased the cost of salaries, benefits, training, and equipment required for the new employees. Its cheaper to pay the OT cause your funding just the pay to cover that open shift. Now to cover that same shift you have to cover pay, benefits, training, and the equipment. As far as the pedophile captain... That guy was a POS and I'm glad he is gone from the organization and is in prison. Like you I wish there was more that could be done to punish him but that is an issue with the legal system and there was NOTHING the fire department, its member, or the union did to support him. The guy stealing from the burn fund is also a POS and he was also dealt with in the legal system, was fired and also had no support from the fire department, its members, or the union.