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Wednesday, March 13, 2013 | 2:01 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
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In response to Kathi Mentlik’s letter, “Stop complaining, start teaching,” I am over 40 and do remember that class sizes were big and we all pretty much learned. But do you remember that we respected teachers, parents supported the teachers (and helped in the classes as you stated in your letter) and parents were involved in education?
I taught for 32 years, and everything was different “back then.” Many of today’s students are disruptive. The more students you stuff in a classroom, the more time you spend on discipline. When I would call a parent, if I could get in touch with them and speak their language, many times they implied that I was the one causing the problem. If I called to talk about a student failing my class, they wanted to talk about why I took their child’s phone. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t necessarily all parents but ...
As far as the teachers putting each kid in front of a computer, I ask, “When were you last in a school?” There are not enough computers in this district for every kid to sit in front of one.
If we could go back to the “good old days,” teachers’ only duty would be to teach. Now teachers parent, counsel, do administrative and custodial tasks besides learning new standards, teaching methods, English-language learner strategies and new technology to name a few — and all for no pay raises.
Walk a mile in a teacher’s shoes, then you can ask them to stop complaining.
Disagreements or differences in opinion are not indicators of disrespect. Parents and tax payers have a right to ask questions and seek answers. If a teacher can't handle differing opinions then they should follow your lead Nancy and get out of the teaching profession.
Nancy says "As far as the teachers putting each kid in front of a computer, I ask, "When were you last in a school?" There are not enough computers in this district for every kid to sit in front of one."
Nancy is missing the point
E-schools are the future - nancy needs to embrace it.
E-school reduces the need for costly education facilities
There is a real failure by many to understand how on-line learning would work and move the state forward ahead of the rest
First the course lectures could be taught by only the very best highly effective teachers (live or podcast). Students can ask questions on-line during class with a cadre of experts to mentor and answer them. This can be both electronic or verbal. Class participation authentication and testing can be electronically monitored. Proctoring Testing can be done at the school when absolutely required.
- With student engagementTeachers are improving teaching by changing toward being facilitators.
- Check out the VGo robots.
- Check out the BYOT movement - Bring your own technology
- Dropout rates are improving with the increased student engagement with the use of technology
Those students with limited or no home access to a computer, tablet, or smart phone - would have access to computer labs and study halls which the schools already have. Sending a computer or tablet home loaded with course material and e-books is a lot cheaper than building and maintaining classrooms. The schools would continue to maintain chemistry labs and music rooms and athletic facilities, etc.
In reply to Nancy Kinder; every employee of many occupations wear what I call the "team label".
Many moons ago in the aftermath of the Vietnam war, I was a a U.S. Marine stationed on board a U.S. warship in Southeast Asia. I wound up fighting some of my own trying to protect Vietnamese refugees. However, upon my return to the states, there were many who demonstrated and called me a baby-killer.
Even though I was always a reasonable and fair prison officer, many civilians just assumed I was a typical old world brutal type prison guard.
Yes Nancy, the labels do hurt. But, there is no doubt it all comes with the territory of the occupation.
I guess this is why it is said, "In life, the most important person you have to respect is yourself."
The root problems of teachers and teaching today are societal and cultural: Breakdown in the family unit and absence of fathers in the home. Not much teachers can do about this except the best they can do. Let school administrators deal with disruptive students so teachers can teach.
CarmineD
Teachers get a lot of undeserved blame because they're the last ones to get a crack at compensating for poor parenting skills or limited parenting skills that expired nine months before birth.
Teachers are at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to deciding on how public schools are run, so I do not blame them for the putrid failure of the system. Too much emphasis is put on nonsensical junk by "progressive" administrators. Who cares if "Heather Has Two Mommies?" Not a future employer. They'll want to know if you add, subtract, multiply & divide. If you can put 2 coherent sentences together. If you have the work ethic and show up to work everyday and on time. They won't care much if you "feel-good-about-yourself;" only if you can handle the workload efficently and productively. Employers will not molly-coddle you as they do in the public school system. There won't be any counselors to kiss those little "boo-boo's" and scrapes along the way. Getting students prepared for the "real" world used to be a priority in the public school system. Not so much today.
Nancy Kinder.....nice letter! Thank you for writing.
You hit the nail on the head with your letter. You have been there and you have done that.
Unfortunately, most of the other posters on this thread have never done that. They were there as a student but they've never been faced with the task of controlling and teaching 35-40 students, or more, in a class room situation.
The comment made by Nancy saying, "many of today's students are disruptive. The more students you stuff in a classroom, the more time you spend on discipline" is very, very true.
The right-wingers out there such as the Heritage Foundation and the Cato group would have you believe that class size has nothing to do with student success but that's simple not true.
I'm surprised that my little buddy "Gibby" has not as yet posted one or more of his extreme right-wing comments about education.
For many of you, you may not know that "Gibby" believes that the LESS money we spend on education, the better the product we will have....
In other words, "Gibby" is 100% against public education and believes that private schools and charter schools will solve all of our problems.
Michael Casler also made a few comments that are 100% true.
Yes, as Michael said, the family unit has broken down in this country and this makes the situation faced by the class room teacher a much tougher job that ever before.
Parents often blame teachers for the poor job done by their kids and more times than not, this is an attempt to put the blame on some one other than themselves...
Parenting is a lost art in this country. We have way too many one parent families and economic factors that require both parents to work has also contributed to a break-down in the family unit.
It's not unusual for many families to never actually sit down at the kitchen table & eat a meal together.
FUTURE would have us all believe that the answer is to have enough computers to put each & every student in front of one and that fact alone would solve all of our educational problems......
Boy, that would be great if it was actually true but FUTURE is living in "la la land."
Computers have their place in education but the presence of a well qualified and effective teacher is still the most important aspect of a successful teaching/learning environment.
El says "Boy, that would be great if it was actually true but FUTURE is living in "la la land."
Computers have their place in education but the presence of a well qualified and effective teacher is still the most important aspect of a successful teaching/learning environment.
---
Again you missed the point - on- line teaching can be accomplished with many fewer teachers and smaller facilities
To discount where the future lies is a huge missed opportunity that many other state are accelerating their effort.
Nevada and it kids will stay is the dark ages if we do not move ahead now
Consider what just a 10% reduction in teachers and facilities would result in
"Michael Casler also made a few comments that are 100% true.
"Yes, as Michael said, the family unit has broken down in this country and this makes the situation faced by the class room teacher a much tougher job that ever before." El Lobo
Please clarify ...what post here exactly from Michael are you referring to so I can read it too.
CarmineD
FUTURE said:
"Nevada and it kids will stay is the dark ages if we do not move ahead now
Consider what just a 10% reduction in teachers and facilities would result in"
As I stated earlier, Future doesn't get it. No real surprise there!
Computers are being used widely in Nevada's schools. Not one for each & every kid but schools are not hurting for lack of computers.....go visit a school (better still, go volunteer some time..) and see what is going on...
Actually, the CCSD has cut back on the number of teachers. The governor's budget cut hundreds of millions from Nevada public education. That's why class room are loaned to the gills with students. At the middle school & high school level its not unusual for some classes to have 40-45 students.
Where have you been?
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Sorry about that Carmine. I gave Michael credit when I should have given you the credit...
Its just that you say so little that makes sense, I can easily over look something that you say that contributes to the conversation....
Sorry about that.....Ha! Ha! Ha!
Lvfacts101 (Jerry Fink): about your post today at 6:38 a.m.
Right On!!
Future: REf your post of 3:15 a.m. in which you said, in part:
"E-schools are the future - nancy needs to embrace it.
E-school reduces the need for costly education facilities."
I don't know your age, but did you ever hear about "teaching machines?" They were a pop-culture item that were supposed to do all you claim. But that was in the late '50s. Ask a current student, you'll find they've never HEARD of teaching machines. Ask a teacher. If you find one that has actually heard of them, you'll probably receive an answer along the lines of "Yeah. Claims for them were exceptional. But they very quickly sunk without a trace."
It still requires concerned parents and professional teachers - in person - to teach children. Did I manage to teach my children to read before they started school and without using a computer? Since only mainframe computers were available then, I certainly did! And now, nearly or quite 40 years later they still haven't stopped!
All you people are doing is denying the future
This will hurt our kids
We are falling behind other states
Learning from home with podcasts is the future
The way Nevada uses computers is not e-schooling/on-line education
I remember the good old days too. We had to raise our hand to be recognized. On a good day, we could ask for permission to speak, and if granted, we rose to a standing position and spoke; kids now blurt from their chairs when the spirit moves them.
Let's jump out for a second and picture a better world, a world where information has been digitized and made accessible so a kid can listen to Aristotle and Socrates hash it out, check out the battle of the cheeseburgers at the local corner, and then find out when Leroy MacGruder and the Tutors are playing at the Fox - and all in five minutes without making much noise at all, just fingers tapping glass.
The technology alters the landscape like night and day, and it releases curiosity and snowballing potential like nothing in history. Some are so bold as to term it the Information Age.
Tell me one more time how many months of grade levels we lose every summer Johnnie and Maria don't read or write or learn!!
When our kids have more love and fewer toys, they can handle the stress of self-reliance. When they choose to take some responsibility for their eventual totally self-directed empowerment, then their urge to engage their greatest powers will be nothing but a reflection of what's in their heart. Our greatest drive is self-mastery, devotion to chosen direction and autonomy to get better at what we love about life; education enables choice, and good parenting enables education.
One of my college buddies had a 4.o grade point average as a senior along with a well-deserved likely entrance into medical school until that day when he worked at the ER. Some poor old guy had been having trouble passing his bowel for a few days until my buddy spent the day with a tiny spoon digging dried fecal matter from the crotch and then the, uh, explosion. He became a world-class biologist.
And when we take control of our destinies, something happens. This whole pile of potential becomes real, and it's OUR pile, and we're taking responsibility for OUR futures, so mom and dad are done, baby. Kick back and watch 'em go!
When I was 21, one of my students came to me, of all approachable people in her terrified world, and announced she was pregnant and scared to death.
She was a sophomore, 1970, northern California. I sure learned from my little student that day. She was one fine kid. Her thoughts ran from shame and fear to pride and expectations for a way better life for that little tiny beating heart within her.
Once when this knocked-up feeling surrounds your life, it's too late. You'll likely already be thinking mommy thoughts. Get ready first.
Unfortunately for too many, we don't have a quiz and a pass word for nooky. Until such time, we are like Smokey the Bear just standing in the smoke and coughing, uttering something like "Only you .. (hack, hack, cough, cough) ..can prevent forest fires!"
http://www.examiner.com/article/entitlem...
Future, I am aware of what online education and e-schooling are supposed to be. Do you believe that parents that won't currently check homework or become involved in education will suddenly change? Do you believe that parents that won't keep their own child home when he's sick because they don't want to care for him will keep him home everyday to educate him? Do you believe that children who would be home alone would choose the school "Podcast" over TV, XBox, Internet etc.? I don't.
E-Schooling may work for the elite, high flying individual and family. I'm not so sure it would work for everyone. In fact, for some, it would be even more of a disaster than our current system.
The growth mind-set fosters opportunity while a fixed mind-set stifles and suffocates, stultifies and isolates.
Education is NOT filling buckets on chairs; it's building fires inside souls.
Happy kids don't always have to drink, drug an'fuq to enjoy life; some find joy in life her ownself as she unfolds, petal by peeling petal.
Teen tendencies toward iconoclastic tactics reveal their tenacity; the growth pattern of splitting cells is evident in growing bodies, amassing fortunes and creating galaxies - gods in action - 'towards a more perfect Union!'
It appears that FUTURE'S bottom line is about money & not the use of computers in schools...
With that being said, the statement by FanMarch sums it up pretty well. FanMarch said:
"Future, I am aware of what online education and e-schooling are supposed to be. Do you believe that parents that won't currently check homework or become involved in education will suddenly change? Do you believe that parents that won't keep their own child home when he's sick because they don't want to care for him will keep him home everyday to educate him? Do you believe that children who would be home alone would choose the school "Podcast" over TV, XBox, Internet etc.? I don't."
Nothing more is needed......thank you FanMarch
El says "It appears that FUTURE'S bottom line is about money...."
Nowhere do I rant about money
E-school is about the kids learning more effectively to be prepared for a digital future
"Its just that you say so little that makes sense, I can easily over look something that you say that contributes to the conversation...." El Lobo
Not to worry. I do that with you ALWAYS. And you never let me down.
CarmineD
E-school will NEVER take the place of traditional education when it comes to teaching the basics of reading, writing, math, and how to be a human in general.
E-school requires a level of motivation and dedication that must be taught by human interaction first.
That is why I say the primary purpose of elementary school is to instill the desire to learn in a child along with the fundamentals. I don't care what programs or advanced technology is used, if that basic goal is not accomplished then a child simply won't give a damn and will never become a productive member of society.
boftx...
I agree with your post! You said it very well. This is the best part of what you said:
"That is why I say the primary purpose of elementary school is to instill the desire to learn in a child along with the fundamentals. I don't care what programs or advanced technology is used, if that basic goal is not accomplished then a child simply won't give a damn and will never become a productive member of society."
Jim is right.
Strange as this concept may seem to marketing agencies, kids are actually small people whose recent birth has liberated them to think on their own to develop their own skill sets and become their own self.
When these small thinking creatures are exposed to other thinking creatures engaged in a similar evolution of kindred spirits, something called 'culture' happens.
Culture enables a society to evolve. 'Cult' is not bad. It comes from the agricultural concept of planting and nurturing growth, weeding out less than optimal strains and promoting opportunity for beneficial developments within the living.
Kids need us to show them how WE are and how stuff is. Once they become strong enough to fly and flirt and find worms, our jobs are NOT done. We still love them because they are our people, but they are their own person when they accomplish their acculturation with education.