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Wednesday, Nov. 28, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
• Editorials - the Sun's viewpoint.
• Columnists - local and syndicated writers.
• Letters to the editor - readers' views.
Have your own opinion? Write a letter to the editor.
I want to respond to a letter from Vernos Branco in the Sun, “Republicans off their rocker again.” He says the re-election of President Barack Obama has “truly brought the crazies out of the woodwork” and makes fun of all the politicians threatening to secede from the United States.
I believe we all know that secession would create more problems than it solves, but it is a good demonstration of how those of us who are true patriots (the Tea Party) feel about a man and an administration who is threatening the very precious freedoms our forefathers fought to preserve. As a Korean Veteran and patriot, I am very concerned about the direction we are headed.
The old saying that history repeats itself prompts me to quote the following, often attributed to Marcus Tullius Cicero:
“Do not blame Caesar; blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and gave him triumphal processions. Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the ‘new, wonderful, good society,’ which shall now be Rome’s, interpreted to mean: more money, more ease, more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious.”
So, how did that work out for them?
Mr. Telloian,
First of all, thank you for your service to our country.
I wouldn't put too much stock into Vernos' liberal rhetoric. He spews his anti-capitalist viewpoints on a regular basis and wrote last year an LVS letter suggesting we "Rescind the Bush tax cuts" which would eliminate the following tax cuts:
* 46 million married couples received an average tax cut of $1,716.
* 34 million families with children received from an average tax cut of $1,473.
* 6 million single women with children received an average tax cut of $541.
* 13 million elderly taxpayers received an average tax cut of $1,384.
* 23 million small business owners received tax cuts averaging $2,042.
* 3 million moderate-income families saw their income tax burden eliminated entirely.
I don't think Vernos is anti-lower or middle-class but I do think he falls for repeating liberal talking points without understanding the impact of his suggestions. Bottom-line, I'm glad Vernos is an LVS poster and not in congress setting national policies that are detrimental to the American people.
MaLcom says "it is a good demonstration of how those of us who are true patriots feel about a man and an administration who is threatening the very precious freedoms our forefathers fought to preserve"
Yes it is tongue and cheek
Get over it
We have a President who looks at $1.2 trillion in IRS and CBO scored deductions and loopholes and says he can not figure out the math to see that elimination or capping will increase revenue. Really that's a Harvard graduate.
The issues we have were not primarily the fault of former President Bush nor are they primarily the fault of President Obama.
We live in a representative democracy, not a dictatorship. Presidents have their role but Congress makes all our laws and sets tax policy. We need to free our elected representatives in Congress by enacting term limits, public financing of campaigns and lobbying reform. I fault both former President Bush and President Obama for not pushing these vital issues.
Our country does have some things in common with the decline of the Roman Empire, but we don't have a Caesar, we have a two parties that put their interests above those of the nations and a Congress that is highly partisan and does the bidding of powerful interests looking to advantage themselves.
Much more than the Romans did, who probably would have been executed if they crossed Caesar, we Americans have the power to change the direction we are heading in. We can elect Presidents until hell freezes over, but if we don't start paying attention to Congress and force changes in the way it operates, we will continue in our downward spiral.
Michael
In reply to Malcolm Telloian; you are quoted as saying in referring to the TEA Party; "It is a good demonstration of how those of us who are true patriots feel about a man and an administration who is threatening the very precious freedoms our forefathers fought to preserve."
While there are some issues the Republicans do have some decent resolutions to, I don't trust them on the whole because they are strongly associated with the extreme TEA Party and believe themselves to be in an exclusive club where the "rank-in-file" workers have no place, no rights, no path to the pursuit of "middle-class" happiness.
Having been a "trench worker" per se almost my entire adult life, I don't want your big ritzy houses. I don't want your luxury cars. I don't want all your precious diamonds and jewels. I don't want millions of dollars stashed away that I'll never need.
But, what I have always desired is no different than that of most other Democrats. A steady job with a decent compensation package that is commensurate with the work I perform. I believe us all, (in the herd) deserve a just opportunity to purchase and maintain an average home where we could support our family and raise our children. To be able to grow old, and depend on the government for Social Security and Medicare since we have paid more than our fair share of taxes into the government coffers for these entitlements during our lifespans.
As a former Marine, I'm just as much a patriot as you are, Mr. Telloian. So, in this discussion don't use you prior military service as a weapon in attempting to prove your point in your letter to the editor. For me, it is true I have struggled to remain an Independent. Simply because, I despise the TEA Party and what they stand for. But don't push me, or the rest of the herd too far, Mr. Telloian. Yes, I am only a former Marine who I know in the eyes of the wealthy I am just a peasant. But, I know how to fight for, and take a hill where the enemy falsely believes they are firmly secured at the top of that peak.
I didn't vote for either Barack Obama or Mitt Romney. So, Mr. Telloian, when Independents like me decide to move solely to the Democratic side, you can well bet the herd has decided on a real "class-war" campaign. It will be a war you can't win. So, in the meantime Mr. Telloian, consider you are lucky. For, now that Barack Obama has been reelected, and the scores of people that voted him back into office, this is all that is saving your barrels from being kicked. Common sense should lead you to know, Mr. Telloian, that instead of insulting Barack Obama and his followers, you should be giving thanks to all of them for being your only saviors as you still sit perched on top of your swank styled hillock.
It is Americans like the letter writer who will overcome and steer the ship of state on the right course regardless of the president in office. I believe this is exactly how the Founding Fathers intended it to be. Power to the people, not the president.
CarmineD
A dictionary definition of patriot is: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests.
People of many different persuasions and perceptions fit that definition. The writer seems to suggest that he and the Tea Party have some exclusive claim to "true" patriotism and can channel the intentions of people long dead as if that is somehow the only meaningful consideration we should have. The implication that there was some sort of unanimity among the founders is a superficial idealization not supported by history. Just the writing of the Constitution required extensive compromises between competing interests.
Compromise will continue to be the case as all the patriots among us offer competing visions for the future.
"The implication that there was some sort of unanimity among the founders is a superficial idealization not supported by history. Just the writing of the Constitution required extensive compromises between competing interests." @ Jim Weber
Ah but there was. The principles of freedom and liberty. No compromising on these. You either have them or you don't.
CarmineD
Carmine says, "The principles of freedom and liberty. No compromising on these. You either have them or you don't."
You bet it does Carmine. And this applies to the dwindling middle-class that is ever falling into poverty with no hopes of recovery.
I'll state again as I did in my initial post here in this discussion room. The only thing that saved the greedy Tea-baggers" from getting taken down forcefully from the "grassy knolls" of their high-priced kingdoms is the people who reelected Barack Obama.
Again, Tea-baggers should give thanks to them all who voted for Obama. This is all that kept an actual brutal "class-war" from taking place in America should Mitt Romney have been elected as President.
A truth about desperate people:
"They show no mercy to an enemy who has taken away their rights to a middle-class lifestyle and stolen from them what they have all earned and worked for in their lives."
>B. Chapline<
CarmineD says "Ah but there was. The principles of freedom and liberty. No compromising on these. You either have them or you don't."
Come now! Are you aware that the Constitution prohibited any limitation on the importation of slaves for 20 years? Do you recall that many of the founders owned slaves? Do you see any guarantee of the right to vote for women? No compromising on that freedom and liberty thingy, huh!
"[secession petitioning] is a good demonstration of how those of us who are true patriots (the Tea Party) feel about a man and an administration who is threatening the very precious freedoms our forefathers fought to preserve."
Telloian -- excellent letter, especially your quote from Cicero "more living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Although anti-secession is written into the Nevada Constitution others like Texas don't have that restriction. It's plain to anyone paying attention our governments at every level are rushing headlong into creating a police state designed to crush those liberties you mentioned.
"We can elect Presidents until hell freezes over, but if we don't start paying attention to Congress and force changes in the way it operates, we will continue in our downward spiral."
wtplv -- amen!
"I believe us all, (in the herd) deserve a just opportunity to purchase and maintain an average home where we could support our family and raise our children."
BChap -- no one can reasonably fault anyone for that view. But in that infamous power book "The Prince" I recall Machiavelli illustrating how easy it is to strip a citizenry of its freedoms so long as the ruler maintains the illusion of freedom. He did warn those rulers to not mess with their women and their property. Too bad the latter especially is ignored by our current rulers.
"A dictionary definition of patriot is: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests."
pisces -- yours is only one of several. dictionary.com's #2 is better -- "a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government."
"You bet it does Carmine. And this applies to the dwindling middle-class that is ever falling into poverty with no hopes of recovery."
BChap #2 -- good points by both you and CarmineD!
"It behoves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others; or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own." -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803
Malcolm Telloian
First, I would like to thank you for your service to our country. You have served to keep us secure and free.
For those who have not served in our military, they to have a duty to serve and protect our country in other ways.
You said, "History repeats itself."
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.
We have been here before. We got out this mess before.
The only difference is that we elected Obama at the beginning of the economic crisis and put the democrats in charge. He did not adopt the all policies of FDR which are needed to get a robust economy, but the economy is slowly recovering.
In 1929, we had to endure three more years of republican, conservative economic policies which forced us into the Great Depression. Had we elected John McCain in 2008, we would have cast the same dye that is spreading across the Euro zone.
We would be in the midst of another Great Depression.
We as citizens can do more by studying history.
What does history say we must do to fix our economic problems?
1. Reduce to income inequality to a ratio of 5:1 or less.
2. Rid ourselves of Free Trade Agreements and adopt the Hamilton plan for manufacturing.
3. Renew the tax code to encourage expanding business, hiring worker and paying better wages.
4. Empower labor unions.
5. Nationalize our natural resources, banks, utilities and other services vital to the development and growth of our nation.
6. Cut military spending back to 3% of GDP ($500 billion).
7. Raise corporate tax rates to 40% - 45%, which would encourage reinvestment back in the corporations.
8. Make short term capital gains ordinary income.
9. Bring back Glass-Steagall.
These are some of the things that conservatives have reversed in the last forty years and has led us to this point today.
Adopt these and other liberal measures and watch our county thrive once more.
Tea Partiers are not "true patriots". They are cranks.
One man's "true patriot" is another man's "treasonous rat bastard".
Forget about "freedom" if the fellow travelers who post on this site are any indication of what would happen if they got their way. They'd be opening Gulags all over America. They already have mini-indoctrination camps called "public schools." They are toxic to the freedoms that we once knew and will eventually kill them all if given the power to do so. Osama Obama is already playing Morsi with the use of "executive" powers and the Republicrats in Congress are sitting on their hands. And we have a slim majority of American's too greedy and self-centered to care. They just love that "free stuff" Osama Obama throws their way. Think that "free" buffet at the casino is really "free?" "Free stuff" comes at a steep price and many are too ignorant to be aware of it. The problem is, when the bill comes due, we will all have to pay, not just the greedy, ignorant and selfish who clamor for "free stuff."
lvfacts101-
No need to worry about gulags unless insaniTEA becomes a crime.
@Michael Casler - I'm in total agreement with your take on Congress and the changes that need to take place - my only question is how will these changes ever take place when the very people (Congress) are the ones who would have to vote to enact things like 'term limits' etc. I think it's a catch 22 because we're asking the very people we want to reign in to basically vote themselves out of a job by enacting things as term limits, campaign funding limitations etc. I think we're in a mess that I see no way out of.
You have to know by now Malcolm that you are going to be dismissed as just an "angry old white guy" who's nothing but a "racist" by the leftwing kooks.
Mr. Malcolm Telloian, of North Las Vegas, Nevada, thank you for your service to this great country.
You fought in Korean for something different, for others in South Korea. You helped the South Korean peopel with protection and helped the people achieve a define freedom.
My Brother-in-Law was in South Korea, helping to protect the South Korean people. He does not agree with you, in fact my Brother-in-Law loves this country and understands what having freedom is about. He understands the reality of stepping on a land mine and waiting 3 hours in a frozen position for a technician to disarm the mine. So, my Brother-in-Law knows something about service and what service to our country means. I am sure you love this country just as much as other veterans, I'm not questioning your love for the USA or your Patriotism.
However Mr. Malcolm Telloian, you are showing your bias and your prejudice in saying, "but it is a good demonstration of how those of us who are true patriots (the Tea Party) feel about a man and an administration who is threatening the very precious freedoms our forefathers fought to preserve."
With all due respect Mr. Telloian, your words, coming from a veteran, a patriot, is the same crazy talk Vernos Branco is referring to.
Again, with all due respect Mr. Telloian, your having a Bubble movement. Break and rejoin reality.
Obama is threatening our freedoms??What cant we do today that we could do 5 years ago? Gays can serve in the military openly. Marijuana is being legalized. Healthcare is being expanded so folks that don't have 6 figure income can afford the hospital.
The Roman empire lasted about 500 years I believe. Not a bad model to follow.
Societies don't collapse because governments help the people with medical care, supplemental income and housing. Countries collapse because governments don't.
Malcolm Telloian - "but it is a good demonstration of how those of us who are true patriots (the Tea Party)"
Exactly what makes you more of, or a better American or patriot than myself or others who disagree with you?
That is the type of stinking thinking that gets Tea Party members painted into a corner defending a false premise. I and others of my generation served in the military and believed in the American Dream just as you did.
The writer spends too much time watching Fox News. The Republican indoctrination camp. Hannity, Ingraham , Oreilly are the Joseph Goebbles clones of our era.
They makes millions and are represented by strong unions and special interests but God forbid the working class should have those things!
Comment removed by moderator. - -
The Tea Party has become very controversial and that is too bad. Just as in any movement or group, some members of the Tea Party are far from the middle and hold views that are on the fringes. However, I have spoken with many people who are Tea Party members or supporters of the Tea Party and they and their views are reasonable. Many are frightened by the out of control spending by the government and want it controlled. That seems to me to be a reasonable position. To try to place all the ills of the country on the shoulders of the Tea Party seems unfair.
R's want to spend more on the military and cut benefits for SS and Medicare, want to cut taxes but can provide little specifics on cutting spending, except SS and Medicare.
D's want to say SS and Medicare are fine when they are not, want to tax the wealthy more and spend a lot more in many areas but are unwilling to reduce spending (not slow the growth in spending) anywhere other than the military and are unwilling to impose high taxes on the middle class.
The Tea Party is in the mix of all of that, but they are far from the sole cause of all our problems.
Michael
Another example of Obumma regulation for the helluva it transforming us into a no-growth european economy:
Like virtually every federal regulation brought to us under Obamacare, science and evidence are lacking. In fact, the government's own documents even admit there's no support for food labeling. But, they're doing it anyway.
Section 4205 of Obamacare, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, established complex national regulations and standards for menu-labeling for restaurants, franchises and some grocery stores operating 20 or more locations. Obamacare is filled with all sorts of other controls on the foods that can be sold, served in school lunches and advertised. It's all to address a nonexistent crisis -- except to those who consider it a national crisis that our food has never been safer or more plentiful and we're living longer, healthier lives than ever in the history of our country.
http://townhall.com/columnists/leahbarko...
Mr.Tellorian,
You describe the tea party as true patriots.How would you describe the rest of the population of our country?
The tea party sounds like a bunch of cry babies and sore losers.The real patriots are the people who support our country and obey all laws.They also believe in the election process and except the final results of any given election.
Rusty57,
Your post is somewhat misleading. Are you saying there is a crisis with menu-labeling? I searched the internet, I could not find a menu-label crisis from credible sources!
The question to you Rusty57, do you agree with menu-labeling? Would you like to know what you are eating at your favorite restaurant?
Comment removed by moderator. Refers to removed comment.
Great letter. A sage look ahead to where we are going. The Tea Party is a grass roots expression that responds to the Socialist trending in America.
It simply seeks to avoid big government and the heavy taxation burdens that accompany it.The letter writer makes valid points. The left is scared to death of the Tea Party. It threatens the socialistic and redistributive leanings of the left and most everything to which it adheres.
Longtime: I'm saying Obama regulatin is all buck, no bang. The "laser-like" focus on job-creation is mere lip-service. The anemic growth of the economy over the last four years prove it.
You do realize that it takes Obamacare 18 pages to define what a "full-time" employee is?
Wash DC and surrounding counties have recently become the wealthiest in the nation. This is what they produce. An ever-increasing cost-of-compliance with little benefit except for perpetuating the bureacracies.
Sam,
Beautifully stated!
Have a wonderful day!!! :)
The elections have disrupted America and wasted resources on unnecessary TV ads. WE MUST AVOID FUTURE PROBLEMS BY MAKING PRESIDENT OBAMA "PRESIDENT FOR LIFE." This will also help with the economic recovery.
The teapotties that do not like it can all be sent to Texas that should be allowed to leave the Union.
I think I've heard about enough from Republicans this morning on some of the most stupid rhetoric one can possibly post.
Here it is; all in one elementary nutshell for those who are apparently suffering from some type of political "shell shock"!
Yes, I agree Democrats who tax and spend is not a good policy.
However, Republicans who commit America to two wars and significantly lower taxes while the deficits skyrocket is the absolute height of financial stupidity. I'm not even going to touch the deregulation of "Wall Street" and the effects that has had on our country. And, George W. Bush was reelected for his second term to the White House? Now that is unbelievable!!!
"Come now! Are you aware that the Constitution prohibited any limitation on the importation of slaves for 20 years? " @Jim Weber
Abraham Lincoln, 14th Amendment. The Founding Fathers, when they sat around that table, never professed to get it all right the first time. That's why there is a process to add Amendments to the Constitution.
More recently, 18 year olds didn't have the right to vote either until Viet Nam. Again, another Amendment added this, thanks to the wisdom of the Founders.
CarmineD
mred "WE MUST AVOID FUTURE PROBLEMS BY MAKING PRESIDENT OBAMA "PRESIDENT FOR LIFE."
Actor Jamie Foxx one upped you mred. Foxx stated to a Soul Train Music Awards audience the other day "First of all, give an honor to God and our lord and savior Barack Obama".
Maybe making Obama lord of America might gain momentum among liberals.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/actor-ja...
"You bet it does Carmine. And this applies to the dwindling middle-class that is ever falling into poverty with no hopes of recovery." @ BChap
Thanks to President Obama and the inflationary policies of his Fed Chief, Ben Bernanke, and Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner. The US has a weak dollar, inflationary prices on all goods and services, and a loss of purchasing power by Americans of about $4600 per year. This is before the economic and fiscal cliff.
Liberty and freedom starts with economic independence. They [freedom and liberty and economic independence] are mutually inclusive, not exclusive. The US has a weak dollar and ever growing deficits and debts, thanks to Bernanke and Geithner, Obama's chief financial advisors. This puts the US at risk to lose freedom and liberty. Witness Europe, my favorite example of where the US is headed.
CarmineD
KillerB, posted,
""A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." -- Bertrand Arthur William Russell (1872-1970), "A History of Western Philosophy"
So, KillerB, who defines the stupid man? Is it the man who claims to be clever? Are you the clever man? If so, the Clever Man would know what Stupid is from experience.
Pisces41 points out that the definition of patriot is one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests. I fail to see how Mr. Telloian can claim that members of the Tea Party are the only true patriots when they reject the current administration's authority and US interests by proposing secession. I would like to point out to Mr. Telloian that the "man" he refers to was just duly re-elected President of the United States under the provisions of our Constitution. That same Constitution is what gives Mr. Telloian the freedom to express his opinion of the "man".
As a Vietnam vet, I solute your service to our country, but as a US citizen, I have to question your assertion that the only true patriots in this country are members of the Tea Party
In reply to Richard Pratt; a great post at 10:16 AM. I only have one minor disagreement. I will not salute Mr. Telloian's military service.
When one takes an oath, it is not just for the duration of a contract. That oath taken should reside in the heart of that person for a lifetime. Mr. Telloian's letter to the editor clearly spells out his disrespect for others who differ politically, but have still sacrificed so much for their country. Apparently, veterans who disagree with Mr. Telloian are political dissidents whose opinions have either much less or no meaning to him.
"A heart that lacks respect will truly lack honor."
>B. Chapline<
Obama has only been re-elected for a few week and already Obama has reneged on his campaign commitment for a BALANCED budget deal.
Obama is now refusing to put entitlement reform in place by the Jan 1st dead line.
OBAMA IS FAILING TO LEAD ON THE FISCAL CLIFF DEAL
Okay. Lets get one thing clear: My vote for Romney was actually meant as a vote AGAINST Obama. Why?
For several reasons, but first, to accept this you must be politically unbiased, as I am, believe it or not. (I even voted for Ross Perot once). Both parties are corrupt. For starts, we need to get Congress on the same medical and retirement plans as everyone else. No automatic retirement at full pay after only one term in office, etc. Then watch how quickly social security and medicare get fixed.
Next, get rid of Lobbyists. No buying of votes.
If Obama had done nothing..absolutely nothing.. after taking office four years ago, unemployment and housing would probably be the same, but our recovery would have been much more rapid due to there being a whole lot less debt he incurred with his "stimulous" package", which did nothing for us but weaken our economy. Bush has already passed a bill that bailed out the banks, which stablized the market several months before Obama took was sworn in. Things had settled down. If only Obama had just let things ride out, we would've been so much better off today. I don't believe Hillary would've done what he did had she been selected as the Democratic candidate. Also, I am not one of the wealthy Fat Cats some alluded to above, but being conservative I am comfortable and have no debt. I read Obama's book "The Audacity of Hope"
which really outlines his intent in making us a third-world, socialist country. You people voted for a man with his whole past sealed. If the GOP had done that, can you just imagine what the left would've made of that? I mean look what they did to poor Sarah Palin! When they couldn't find anything she had done wrong, they viciously attacked her family, even a baby with Down Syndrome
but thats what the left does best, isn't it?
If President Obama is a "dictator" on the Democrats side, then the lobbyist Grover Norquist is dictator on the Republican side.
The difference is that the President was elected by a majority of the voters, while Grover Norquist wasn't elected by any voter.
The fact that Republicans have felt a greater allegiance to Grover Norquist. Republicans signing a pledge to what Grover Norquist wants are traitors.
If states want to become sovereign countries seceding from the US, let them. The US will go on without them. However, I think it would be better to make any such efforts regional. So far it is a southern effort which could fit in as a region.
The process may be complicated, but this should be possible if states really want such an action. The US isn't a prison, and it is or should be a States rights issue.
Peace Obama veto or sign bills
Grover does nothing and has no impact on passing and signing a bill Grover can not vote
---
Obama is the one reneging on reforming SSS and MEDICARE
THAT IS REAL IMPACT. THAT IS A DICTATOR
Is Obama's class warfare tax plan an $82 billion dollar deficit reduction plan or an $82 billion dollar stimulus? And where is Obama's spending reduction plan? Obama needs to explain more details about his plan to the American people.
Peacelily wrote "If states want to become sovereign countries seceding from the US, let them. The US will go on without them. However, I think it would be better to make any such efforts regional. So far it is a southern effort which could fit in as a region."
Peacelily, you've been all over the board with your ideas. At one time extolled the virtues of becoming a union with all the Americas. You wrote "One day there is a good possibility we will be the North American Union, then the American Union with a new currency and government structure for the whole continent. It will be an opportunity to expand our openness, to open our arms to so many wonderful and new cultures and experiences. We may need to be even more supportive of one another, to build closer relationships". Then, a few days later you wrote "I would like to split the country into 3-4 sovereign nations based on the political philosophy the people hold to. One for Republicans, one for Democrats, one for Libertarians, and one for Greens......If any of those countries want to be capitalists, fine. If any want to be democratic socialists, fine."
Peacelily, which do you prefer? One large union like Europe linking all the Americas with one government, currency etc or to split the United States into 3 or 4 smaller countries?
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/jun...
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/oct...
Nothing new coming from the right...
They continue to bash President Obama and shout the "merits" (what ever those are....) of the tea baggers....
Of course, many of the right-wingers, who post on this board, have not as yet accepted the fact that they lost the election...
Some never will.....
The last time I looked, the economy was continuing to improve and that's bad news for the GOP...
The GOP is between a rock & a hard place. The fact that they're being controlled by the Tea Party & people such as Grover Norquist, puts them in a "NO WIN" position...
The very essence of our system depends upon the art of compromise, and we all know how the Tea Party and Norquist looks upon compromise, don't we?
That word is not part of their make-up!
I continue to keep my fingers crossed hoping that the Tea Party continues to make major decisions for the GOP......
Their unreasonable approach to governing makes the Democrats the party of sanity, reason, and progress....
Will the Democrats take control of the House in 2014? It's starting to look that way....
Carmine -
You refer to "President Obama and the inflationary policies of his Fed Chief, Ben Bernanke." It becomes extremely difficult to take anything you say seriously when you ignore facts and/or make stuff up. Ben Bernanke is a member of the Republican Party and was George W. Bush's Fed Chief. Bush appointed him on February 1, 2006, almost two full years before President Obama took office.
On August 25, 2009, President Obama announced he would nominate Bernanke to a second term as chairman of the Federal Reserve. The President did so because Bernanke's background, temperament, courage and creativity helped to prevent another Great Depression in 2008.
Please, stop insulting us with your revisionist history.
Why does Freeman think everyone should answer to him?
'Explain yourself!'
Oh, please.
Don't you have anything to DO, man???
Or is THIS your 'job'?
Your silly little 'class warfare' notions sure are funny; but only the first time; not the thousandth.
Wimpy Popeyes friend said "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today".
Now Obama says "I'll gladly consider spending limits in 2013 for huge tax rate increases today".
Referring to "a man and an administration who is threatening the very precious freedoms our forefathers fought to preserve" is as meaningful as saying President Obama is a Muslim or saying he wasn't born in the United States. It's a fiction, it's a lie, and it's an obscene statement with no value whatsoever. It's statements like that that cause people like Vernos to refer to you as "crazies".
Name one single freedom that you do not have today that you did have on January 19, 2009. I'll help you: there are none.
Saying this President is turning us into a Socialist country or engaging in class warfare is, simply put, ridiciulous. It doesn't help the people saying these things, nor does it help the rest of us who are living in reality.
Comment removed by moderator. - -
Kevin,
I don't subscribe to the view that President Obama is turning America into a socialist nation, but the fact is that the campaign he just ran was a class warfare campaign. The wealthy are a 'class'. The business community can be a class. The middle class is a 'class. President Obama ran a campaign where he pitted the 99 % against the 1 %, the business class against everyone else, etc.
The class warfare campaign was a success and he did win the election, so he deserves credit, but to claim he didn't run a class warfare based campaign defies the facts.
Michael
The statement "those of us who are true patriots (the Tea Party) " is offensive to all US Citizens. To attempt to portray only Tea party members as patriots shows very little respect for this country and ALL the citizens that express their views and exercise their rights to form the government that they want to Govern the country.
Just because you don't agree with them does not make them unpatriotic. The fact that you think only you and your "Members" can claim to be TRUE patriots makes you unpatriotic. Patriots stand for their country and countrymen, You have proven you stand only for a narrow point of view and a desperate grip on the past. You show that you really despise the rest of this country!
Your point of view is the minority point of view.. it had its vote and lost.. try to be constructive rather than divisive !
Comment removed by moderator. Nazi references are not appropriate.
Bradley Chapline Nov. 28, 2012 11:55 a.m.
STATED:
"A heart that lacks respect will truly lack honor."
>B. Chapline<
*****************
Very nice, I really liked your comment :)
Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack
RefNV,
LOL, you are so funny. You have forgotten all my explanations. You better have that checked out. Could be a sign of early Alzheimer's.
You quoted me:
"One day there is a good possibility we will be the North American Union, then the American Union with a new currency..."
That doesn't originate with me. Here's some information for you. Enjoy, or be scared to death. It is an extreme right wing idea, among others. It was amazing that some right wingers didn't pick up on that and comment, as they do with left wing things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Ameri...
Just another of my sarcastic contributions, especially for you. I enjoy keeping you perplexed.
I also enjoy reading, sharing and thinking outside the box. It doesn't mean that ideas will be realized, but it is interesting to hear what others think and why, as well as how they would modify the ideas.
It is far more interesting than rehashing the same old themes over and over and over again, with no new ideas, or gripping like an old record that has the needle stuck in the same groove. Maybe you are too young to lmow what that was like.
"A heart that lacks respect will truly lack honor."
Another good quote that illustrates hypocrisy.
The problems we face today are not new. Governments have had to deal with them for thousands of years.
Every government that has failed to find solutions has fallen. Our fate will be no different if we don't learn from that.
Malcolm.........
You proved the point Vernos made in his letter
with your crazy statement against our great
PRESIDENT OBAMA.
YES, republican teabaggers are still off their
rockers and can't stop their crazy talk.
AND the majority of Americans will continue to
vote republican teabaggers out of office.
DEMOCRATS FOREVER!
Secession is as American as apple pie. It's in the Constitution (not that anyone cares about that Document, revered and oft-imitated throughout the world, yet ridiculed, slandered, and marginalized by the very People who live under its Laws).
This American Empire has run its course and is currently in an ever accelerating decline, especially with our Imperial President, the Globalist-in-Chief, protector and puppet of foreign/domestic banks and elites throughout the world, giving away what remains of the national treasure to countries like Myanmar and Afghanistan, while his own countrymen suffer through the highest poverty rate in history, including the highest number of starving children in U.S. history, and look at the brain dead drones cheering him (and his party) on. They have no idea what seeds they are sowing. The reaping will be nasty and brutish indeed. But go ahead keep watching America's Got Talent and cashing those food stamps @ WalMart, it's all going to be just fine, just fine
liljoe31.......
You fool no one here.
Republican anti-union greed destroyed our economy
and middle class.
Stop watching fox and try to break out of that
republican bubble you live in.
Heartless republicans lost this election for
many reasons.
THANK GOD!
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!
In reply to Malcolm Telloian; I think maybe I was a bit too harsh on you. I'm certainly not in the practice of not honoring veteran's service to their country. For this, I give you my most sincere apologies.
But Malcolm, you have to understand that people outside the TEA Party just can't understand these types of political supporters. I've written about many times being raised by a hard core Republican family. Most were not good hearted people. In fact many were greedy, abusive, scary and evil. Malcolm, I know this doesn't define all, but it's the label that has been placed there.
Typically, I'm not a fan of placing labels on groups of people, but within me, I'd never support removing the given markers from that of the TEA Party. I have some very deep and permanent angers towards them.
But, at the same time, I know that life hasn't been fair to any of us. So, it is therefore true to say that politics, when the debates get heated can bring out the ugliest sides to us. I know that has surely applied to me.
Peace brother!!!
"a man and an administration who is threatening the very precious freedoms our forefathers fought to preserve"
This would be someone who feels the Government should be teaching prayer in public school. This would also describe someone who took the country deep into debt by a war that was entirely unnecessary. He would also try to teach creationist myths as science, label science an act of inhumanity and make his religion part of the Government. That was George W. Bush, just four years ago.
To Kevin Lustig on Fed Chair Ben Bernanke:
He was a bad Fed Chief for Bush 2 as he has been for Obama. Obama could have fired Bernanke, as Romney said he would, when he was elected President and appointed his person to the position, or not reappoint Bernanke to another term in August 2009 when his term expired. Obama chose to do neither instead leaving him on. Regardless of party affiliation, and Fed Chiefs are suppose to be non-partisan, that makes Ben Bernanke his hand picked Fed Chief and one of his top financial advisors.
CarmineD
The Tea Party at the start and some of its entry level members are good, decent, hard working American people.
Somewhere in its metamorphosis into a radical subsidiary of Americans for Prosperity I began to have empathy for the good Americans trapped in that awful organization.
They are day by day falling down the hole of obscurity
This is where the seeds they planted not so long ago show bitter fruit
We've been here before - this is where the novelty starts wearing off.
What are they supposed to do now?
They've crawled down the hole of monotony.
The silence is deafening - their phone never rings
It doesn't really matter anymore - Dead party walkin'
Let's look at the highlights of this possibility:
Corporate greed and the systematic dismantling of our manufacturing and off shoring of jobs. ( the bottom line concept trumps all things)
The media-driven and ever-growing divide in America.
The infestation of our food chain - by GMO (genetically modified grains) Our beef, poultry and pork chain infested with growth hormones and anti biotics - hence the 300% spike in child obesity an diabetes - This chart matches perfectly with the GMO and hormones entering our food 20 years ago.
Bad choices by Presidents - You cannot escape the reality, that over the last 20 years, our leaders have made catastrophic decisions.
The inability to recognise the real China and her goals.
Government agency incompetence (9-11) x 2
Peacelily wrote "One day there is a good possibility we will be the North American Union, then the American Union with a new currency..."
That doesn't originate with me. Here's some information for you. Enjoy, or be scared to death. It is an extreme right wing idea, among others. It was amazing that some right wingers didn't pick up on that and comment, as they do with left wing things".
Peacelily, nice try at distancing yourself from the concept but you did extol the American Union approach for North America AND the concept of splitting the United States into 4 different countries.
You need to stop running from your own words Peacelily.
Mr. Freeman; in reference to "PeaceLily" we have had some pretty contentious debates that have resulted in some hard feelings.
There is no doubt that I do strongly disagree with some of her politics. However, in being fair, it should at least periodically be mentioned that "PeaceLily" as a nurse provides Americans a service that requires a lot of heart and inner-strength. She deserves no less and probably a lot more recognition than we give her credit for.
"To a person who is sick, the worst case scenario is the absence of a nurse."
>B. Chapline<
Bchap,
I'm glad you share your thoughts and points of view here on the LVS letter forums. I always read your posts and agree with many of your views.
Peacelily goes from advocating one large union of America concept to splitting up the United States into 4 separate countries. Above in a post she wrote "If states want to become sovereign countries seceding from the US, let them. The US will go on without them" which leads me to question her views on our country. She either wants the United States to be divided up based on political viewpoints or wants Canada, the United States and Mexico to be lumped into one union with the same currency and government. Or, as a third option, she now suggests letting states become separate countries. She's just all over the board with her views which leads me to conclude that she changes her viewpoints when it supports her political views. She mentioned above that Republicans are traitors for pledging to hold down tax rates but fails to see she's basically wanting to divide our country into 4 separate countries which doesn't solve any problems. In my view, someone advocating such a drastic strategy as dividing up our country would be a traitor.
Yes, I know you've had your disagreements with Peacelily.
When Peacelily spoke highly of socialist China you stated "PeaceLily; you do know the "Communist Party USA" has a presidential candidate. Why portray yourself as an Obama supporter? You should vote where your personal opinions are; that would be the Communist Party candidate for President. They, like you, do not believe in any form of capitalism". I agreed with your point. If she is anti-capitalist then she should find either a party or another country to live in that supports her views.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/oct...
In reply to Mr. Freeman; I've come to realize from reading your posts that you are very good in your chosen profession of being a Business / Financial Consultant. No questions, no arguments there. In fact, I learn a great deal from the information you provide that relates to business.
In the link you provided I clearly remember the harsh words that were exchanged between "PeaceLily" and me. I haven't changed my position on that discussion.
However, she is a well-qualified nurse and must certainly be a diligent and caring person in her occupation as a nurse.
I recently wrote in a Sun discussion room that many times political opinions bring out the ugliest sides in us, and that, this certainly applied to me, as well as others.
I would never vote for "PeaceLily" into a political office. However, if I needed medical assistance I sure would trust and value her as a nurse.
In the opposite spectrum, Mr. Freeman, if I was sick I wouldn't want you to be my nurse. But, if I was having financial problems or questions about business, I'd want you to be my consultant.
Peacelily :
I like your posts. Period.
Hard to explain yourself to the tin man and the scarecrow at times.
Especially before they know their heart and brain are not controlled by Karl Rove & company.
To all who think we need more government:
I am not one who thinks we need no government, but the following is just one small example of why a lot less government would most likely be a good thing.
I prepare and record Grant, Bargain and Sale Deeds for people who want to transfer title to houses or land. The County Recorder records these deeds by scanning the documents. The Recorders formatting rules say no writing or notary stamp can be in a one inch margin on the top, bottom and sides of the document. Once in awhile one of my customers writes big and their signature extends into the margin. If I catch it, I make them fix it. If I miss it and the recorder catches it, they call the document non conforming and charge an extra $ 25 to record it.
I was at the Recorder's Office one day and I asked the clerk if the office had to do anything special for a document that had a signature or notary that extends into the margin. She said no and offered that the scanning technology they use can scan the document even with marks in the margin. So I asked why do they charge the extra $ 25.00. The clerk smiled and said nothing.
The reason they do that is that they have no competition so they gouge the public.
AND THAT IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF WHY WE SHOULD NOT BE SO WILLING TO SIGN ON TO EVER MORE EXPANSION OF GOVERNMENT.
Michael
Bradley,
"I would never vote for "PeaceLily" into a political office."
You won't ever be put to the test on that one. I would never run for office!
I like offering my thoughts freely, without limitation to any ideology.
I like exploring different ideas for people to think about, or get riled up about, whatever they choose.
Most of my views are derived from Scripture, and my personal experience as a missionary. I know what people suffer, including severe violence and murder, from oppressive governments, and what needs to be changed.
Making changes begins with having accurate information. I like to clarify misconceptions, because over the years so much brainwashing has taken place here in order to control and influence people by creating fear, often irrational.
From your military experience, you probably understand very well how important correct information is and knowing the right moment for an offensive. That is strategy based on accurate information.
This also holds true in dealing with oppressive government leadership.
Additionally, it is important to the People who are the strategic force seeking change.
Thanks for your vote of confidence on my caring for you. I guarantee you would receive the best care I could afford you, and which my employer would allow, unless I found a way around them.
Today healthcare has some decision makers that suck, IMO. Money over Peoples' best interest. They want to reduce care when the problem is the runaway costs they create.
Obviously, I am not one to be stuck in a box. I believe in People and try to do the best for them in whatever I am involved in, whether in healthcare or as a missionary. I don't consider labels, or parties, or beliefs. People's needs are of the utmost importance to me.
That said, I have actively and definitely worked against fascism. It is important to understand it in today's terms.
I can also say that taking an active roll in opposing a fascist government brings one into a very dangerous situation in which many have lost their lives. It is not something many choose to do.
I have huge respect for all those who selflessly work above and under ground to bring freedom to People suffering from violent oppression.
Michael,
I've stated over and over that we have a moral crisis in the US.
The Bush Administration took the stance to limit regulation on everything they could, until big trouble began to surface in banking and other financial sectors. Then panic set in and a call for the immediate need to regulate.
Then, Wall St. nearly crashed, and the US along with it. Regulation was definitely needed. Wall St gambled away into needing a bailout from the taxpayers. Then, turns on them saying they need to give the wealthy tax cuts and have their own current and future safety nets cut. The cuts will likely never be enough for them.
Another area of silent derailing of regulation occurred in OSHA, and there were more and more deaths on work sites.
I bring this up because it shows that business is not always interested in the effects of their actions, even if it places individual lives or the country in serious danger.
Some consider regulations as more government intrusion. However, if there was integrity and morality as the norm, regulations would be less needed.
So now, in the midst of "entitlements" being a target for serious cuts that would effect people who often have no other options, I would offer that healthcare has a good deal of morality deficient operations.
Just as banking and financial services industry regulation is needed, just as lives are saved due to OSHA regulations, or safe drinking water is protected by the EPA, we also need regulation on healthcare providers, especially since lives are also at stake by the greed for profits that create cuts in care that can be dangerous and life threatening.
Medicare is an important element for regulation, that also carries over to non-Medicare patients care. It could be even better, if it weren't such a political hot potato.
There isn't much difference between the corporate CEO who is doing whatever it takes to get his bonus and the person who doesn't want to pay more taxes, no matter what it will cost in the end. Neither have any concerns about quality of life except for themselves in the moment.
A continuation of the payroll tax cut on the FICA tax will take a terrible toll on Social Security in the future. People who want to save a small tax now, will pay for it later in poverty. It makes no sense, except to those who want to see an end to Social Security sooner.
We have the ongoing problem of no wage growth and no regulations to address that, with dire consequences still to come.
Every man for himself means defeat, whether in a military battalion or a nation.
The unfortunate thing about Opinions sites is that it is not a likely to solve anything. However, I wish people would look beyond today and into their future.
Neither of the current parties will be looking out for the needs of the People to the degree they deserve. The cannibals are always at the door crying for more bodies. The "compromises" are no longer even, if they come about.
In reply to "PeaceLily"; thank you for taking the time to write a very inspiring commentary. Well, at least I was right on the type of nurse you are. Without a doubt, I think you are second to none in caring for people. I had absolutely no idea that you were once a missionary. I now should admit, you would make one terrible communist. I'll do my time on "dunce row" for that comment made.
While in the Marine Corps, I had some very much memorable visits to the Christian Philippine Missions in Manila where American missionaries worked tirelessly.
On the other side of the spectrum, I was not too fond of the Ferdinand Marcos regime and or the military bases the United States had established there. All one had to see were the lives of vice that many people of Alongapo had to submit to in somewhat supporting themselves back during the 70's. Open drug trafficking, widespread alcohol abuse, the sex trade, and the "black market" in Alongapo City all significantly contributed in helping to make this the filthiest city I have ever seen in my life. All in all, it was a partially sponsored American government disgrace.
I was glad to hear in later years these bases were shut down and a slow progression out of the dregs of its past began in some areas of the Philippines. I'm quite sure the Philippine Missions played an instrumental part in this.
Your life "PeaceLily" has apparently had a great deal of most honorable professions. Thank you for all of your sacrifices that humanity has benefitted from.
Bradley,
Thank you for your sweet words. I was only a small one of many all over the world to fill in the gaps left by injustice.
I know about the Philippines, and at one time sponsored a little girl there. It was a very sad situation that other on site workers tried to help with.
You know well the injustices that flow from US actions and policies. There doesn't seem a lasting solution to that, especially now with more and more political divisions. That has to change or we will find ourselves on the receiving end.
Malcolm,
Since you bring the topic of secession to the forum, let's look at it.
First, what you say could be said by almost any group about any President.
Second, anyone involved in a secession movement would consider themselves patriots of whatever they envision to be their "new country".
Let's take the current group of Southern states that are expressing their desire to secede. That group is a good place to start. It is relatively small as a region, and the transition might be easier.
What are the down sides? They lose the clout of a large nation such as the US, but the US is losing its clout in the world anyway, with the advancement of developing countries, and their growing economic strength.
It would be a hassle to start a new economic system, but that is the price of "patriotism".
Businesses would be very much effected as markets would have to be negotiated in trade agreements.
Lack of some resources may be costly to import under negotiated trade deals. It could be a drag on the economy of the "new country".
The costs of services such as education and healthcare would be greater and insufficient without enough taxes to meet the necessities.
The currency doesn't need to change, so that is an advantage, at least in the beginning. However, it might be that the new country would find it better to change to their own currency. However, that would effect any trade agreements.
The new country would have to start it's own financial trading markets.
Wall St might get a huge migraine.
Just a few difficulties that come into my mind, but I'm sure there are many more.
What are the upsides of secession?
If it followed my concept of people of like mind living in their own country, there would be a period or relocation or emigration and immigration of US citizens who wish to live in a new country with the same ideology they hold. Imagine living in peace.
There would less political upheaval, more agreement on policies, and less resentment or feeling oppressed by the political system.
They could name their country "Tea", and vote in Paul Ryan as President, if he would join them, which I doubt.
There would be a sense of new freedom, of beginning the government and financial system they believe in, without any "socialism" involved.
They could write their own Constitution, laws, and define the rights of each citizen of the new country.
They could deal with the sensitive issues of religious freedom and limitations.
They could make their own emigration and immigration, taxation and trade policies, and have their own military.
Surely, there must be more benefits and opportunities that I can't think of at the moment.
Since the US Constitution makes it possible to secede, and if there are States serious enough to go through all that is required to begin a new country, then they have that ability.