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Wednesday, Nov. 21, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
• Editorials - the Sun's viewpoint.
• Columnists - local and syndicated writers.
• Letters to the editor - readers' views.
Have your own opinion? Write a letter to the editor.
In December 2009, the Las Vegas Sun published a letter of mine entitled “GOP has gone off the deep end.” The letter was basically about how the party became polarized and unwilling to compromise regardless of the nation’s problems. Now, the re-election of President Barack Obama has truly brought the crazies out of the woodwork. Elected politicians threaten to secede from the United States and some are calling for the impeachment of the president. These actions are based on hate and nothing else.
They lost the election because rational people went to the polls and rejected the GOP stance on the economy and social issues. The people have spoken, and I believe many of them were Republicans who voted for Obama because they didn’t trust Mitt Romney due to his flip-flopping on almost every issue.
Many in the GOP seem to have lost their minds entirely. They deny the results of this election, insisting that magically it was fixed. Even as sane Republican leaders are speaking out, many of their party continue on the path of self-destruction. I have little doubt the GOP brand is poisonous and it will affect the party for years to come.
Vernos,
Quit your left-wing socialist bashing of the party you oppose.
Vernos, you referenced a past LVS letter but you also have a few anti-capitalism quotes in your past posting as well. Here is a collection of your comments concerning capitalism:
"Just gotta love "capitalism" and the way we treat our vets"
You "capitalists" have it arse backwards, caving
"to a communist third world nation for a few greenbacks, while placing our own out on the streets to go hungry."
"For those of you who still insist we operate under "capitalism" pay attention to China. American companies have sold their souls to the communist Chinese."
"Does capitalism trump your hostility towards Iran?"
"Excuse me, time for another dig. CAPITALISM out weighs border control."
"Is that what CAPITALISM is all about? Make sure Americans can't find employment? Just a little dig at those defending a corrupt and broken system."
"Capitalism:doing business with communists countries bypassing restrictions on enemies such as Iran selling WMD's to Saddam Hussein
putting puppet dictators in power ... The Shah, Egypt, Syria, etc., etc., etc."
"Want to stop illegals from crossing over? Fine the crap out of the companies hiring them. Why aren't they being punished? Oh yeah, it's call capitalism."
"Eventually all of us will get screwed including those supporting capitalism. That system no longer is valid because corporatocracy has replaced it. We've reached a point similar to the guilded age of robber barons in the late 1880's."
This is yet another meaningless letter from a regular LVS partisan political poster who wishes for a socialist America.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/nov...
VB seems to have a problem. Attacking Conservatives and demanding that you got a voter mandate is not the way to solve problems
Republicans have won 30 State Govenorships and won the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
Obama did not win based on a vision and an agenda as witnessed by getting 9.7 million fewer disillusioned voters (1.6 million fewer Blacks) then in 2008 and just 50% of the popular vote. A swing of 1.2% would have given it to Romney - historically the smallest margin ever
Only 26% of the eligible voting population voted for Obama
Every exit poll question on the economy and job was more favorable to Romney. Witness the first debate about the economy that Romney won.
----
- Obama implement his "KILL" Romney (murderer and racist and felon) bad faith ressentiment character assassination and vilification of an honest family businessman Mitt Romney - right out of the Sal Alinsky play book. (this was coined the Jim Messina "Grand Bet")
- The republican primary sapped all of Romney's money so he could not counter the Summer Obama blitz of his character. It was only after the Convention that Romney was able to tap funds - but to late.
BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES ARE OFF THEIR ROCKERS
I have no clue why the Las Vegas Sun continues to publish these lame letters to the editor where one political party is bashing the other. My God, it is so clear that both in their own ways are greedy and totally irresponsible.
Vernos, if you manage your family finances, would you continue to spend outrageous sums of money when you don't have the income to support such expenditures?
Vernos, if you owned a business, would you grant union demands that would take the entire company payroll expenditures well over thirty percent of the gross income of your business?
Vernos, if you were a legislator, would you approve expensive social programs where there is no revenue to support enacting or maintaining such? Apparently, you would.
However, there are surely some necessities that must continue in effect even during "red ink" periods of operation. But, neither side in politics can see an absolute" vision of repair". It is all about greed, as usual from both Republicans and Democrats.
Vernos, when you and all other letter writers begin submitting your letters to the editor with solutions that are practical by utilizing stable examples of family finance in government operations then I'll start giving these statements made some validity.
Until such time, the majority of political letters to the editor are pure "hogwash"!
Mr. Chapline my letter was not about debt and deficits, it's about the extremism of the right which is turning off Americans by the thousands. Bobby Jindal said it was stupid, and Haley Barbour basically said the GOP needed reaming. Of course we need to cut spending, but taxes do need to be set back to the Clinton years. The wealthy raped and pillaged the economy for 35 years, it's time they gave some of those earnings back. I can't understand a man who doesn't work, Mitt Romney, earning more money than a man who will ever see that income a life time, but pays a higher tax busting his arse daily.
RefNV, you can repost my comments all day. It might sink in that I'm anti communist and detest American jobs going to China. Obviously you still can't figure that out.
The GOP was warned about their behavior in 1992 by Republican Senator Warren Rudman:
"If someone had told me in the 1960s that one day I would serve in a Republican Party that opposed abortion rights--which the Supreme Court had endorsed--advocated prayer in the schools, and talked about government-inspired 'family values,' I would have thought he was crazy.
"To me, the essence of conservatism is just the opposite: Government should not intrude in anything as personal as the decision to have a child, it should not be championing prayer or religion, and family values should come from families and religious institutions, not from politically inspired, Washington-based moralists.
"Yet I could see the Republican Party gradually being taken over by 'movement' conservatives and self-commissioned Christian soldiers whose social agenda I found repugnant."
Rudman says the Christian right is "neither Christian nor right." It lacks the "love and compassion and forgiveness" preached by the New Testament, he says, and instead exudes intolerance. "I don't even like the Christian Coalition's name," he says, because it implies that all Christians share evangelist Robertson's far-right agenda.
Americans are "an incredibly diverse people" of many "races, religions and lifestyles," Rudman says. "The only way so diverse a nation can survive is by all of us practicing a high degree of tolerance.
"But tolerance is not the way of the Christian right. Its leaders want to impose their one-size-fits-all morality on everyone. It won't work. When any group tries to impose its values on everyone else, the result will inevitably be resentment, hatred and violence."
Rudman says the GOP "is making a terrible mistake" by allying itself with this movement which contains "enough antiabortion zealots, would-be censors, homophobes, bigots and latter-day Elmer Gantrys to discredit any party that is unwise enough to embrace such a group."
I have some of the same issues with Vernos' viewpoint as Bradley points out in his letter. The R party is to the right of where I think the country is on several social issues and that will be a continuing problem until they address it.
However, Vernos tends to take the most far right views of a minority of the R party and insists that is the whole party. That could be done with the far left of the D party as well but in both instances, it would be a gross generalization and be inaccurate.
Both parties have been and are completely irresponsible on the economy, the deficits and the debt. Both parties continue to support private financing of campaigns, and oppose term limits in Congress, public financing and lobbying reform and that just insures that we have a legislative branch corrupted by money and directed by the wishes of wealthy individuals, unions, businesses and other powerful groups with lobbyists.
Because so many people spend their time and energy bashing one party or the other, I can only guess there is some fun in it for them. Our problems are so serious that I think it would be wiser for people to recognize and address the problems that exists in both our 2 major parties instead.
Vernos is entitled to his views but I know he is smart enough to see what I see and we need more people to call out both parties for their failures, so hopefully we can get a viable 3rd party started.
Michael
vb says "Mr. Chapline my letter was not about debt and deficits, it's about the extremism of the right...tolerance is not the way of the Christian right"
all we can say is VB is a very very SAD person ranting on constantly about how much better he is then the rest of us.
VB admits it that he does not care about debt and deficits - it not about that he says.
VB is hung up on the need to promote ABORTIONS
VB says Republicans are extremist because they do not support ABORTIONS
VB claims you are intolerant if you do not support murdering babies - you are called an extremist by VB
Vernos,
You backed and tried to promote the Occupy movement last year but it failed miserably.
You wrote another LVS letter titled "Bush-era tax cuts must be reversed" linked below but failed to realize that the following tax cuts for lower and middle income earners would expire as well, in effect, raising their taxes:
* 46 million married couples received an average tax cut of $1,716.
* 34 million families with children received from an average tax cut of $1,473.
* 6 million single women with children received an average tax cut of $541.
* 13 million elderly taxpayers received an average tax cut of $1,384.
* 23 million small business owners received tax cuts averaging $2,042.
* 3 million moderate-income families saw their income tax burden eliminated entirely.
In your LVS letter referenced below, you wrote "Warren Buffett and a few of the wealthiest recognize the obvious. They know that unless the tax situation is reversed, we'll hit a double recession or worse" yet the non-partisan congressional budget office states our economy will likely slow down if we rescind the Bush tax cuts along with allowing the sequestration cuts to go through.
Vernos, you back a failed socialist movement, you've railed against capitalism and you suggest tax policies that raise taxes on lower/middle class earners which will end up slowing our economy.
All I can say is, I'm glad you're not sitting in the legislature.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/aug...
I went back and read the letter that Vernos alluded to in this one, including all the comments:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/dec...
One thing that stands out is that those who were partisan then are even more so today. But those who tried to temper their views then, continue to do so today, possibly even more so. In other words, we have become more divided than ever. The tone that Vernos takes today is markedly stronger than that earlier letter.
This letter today by Vernos is simply more evidence of the partisan sickness that has gripped our country for far too long. This cancer has its roots in Watergate, and has festered and grown ever more malignant since then.
Another thing I noticed on the earlier letter was a comment that I had made at the time: "The Party that both Ben Franklin and Teddy Roosevelt could agree with is the Party I would want to join."
As of yesterday, the Whig Party of Nevada is now officially recognized as a minor party in the State of Nevada: https://nvsos.gov/index.aspx?page=114
To those who think that not only are the Republicans are off their rocker, but the Democrats too, I ask you to give that serious consideration.
"Many in the GOP seem to have lost their minds entirely. They deny the results of this election, insisting that magically it was fixed"
Delusional, Vernos. Do you just make stuff up? See you at the future austerity protests that europe is enjoying now.
The progressive agenda, Richard Epstein writes in "Why Progressive Institutions are Unsustainable" (Encounter Books), supplies a "one-two punch." First, it reduces the private sector by ill-advised regulation. "Second, it imposes extensive and counterproductive programs of redistribution that cannot be supported by a stagnant economy and a shrinking productive wealth base. As that base gets smaller, the demand for a stronger safety net induces yet another round of transfer payments and makes the tax burden heavier and the rate structure more progressive. The new redistributive tax regime in turn exerts greater negative pressures on production levels."
And down we go.
The worship of "fairness" is a death cult.
Apparently the letter writer doesn't know the full depth and details of the November 6, 2012 election. GOPeoples' House stayed republican, just as it was in 2010 and has been the last 16 of 20 years. GOP had a net gain of 8 State Houses nationwide with 30 States having Republican governors. And 24 of these states have a majority of GOP legislatures. So, the GOP lost the White House by the narrowest of margins for a second term president. Like they say, you can't win them all.
CarmineD
In reply to "Vernos"; allow me to make my positions "crystal clear". I am a devout Christian and share the same moral beliefs as most conservatives. In my eyes, my Christian religion brings forth what I see to be what is right for a society of people to live by. Within me, this is solid all the way up to the point of the most important American principal of governing where all my Christian views become plugged; "Separation of Church and State".
You'll get no argument from me on the former Republican Senator Warren Rudman: One of our few politicians who could distinguish between the parameters of religion and American politics, respectfully.
I'm a Christian in my religion, but, as an American I support a woman's right to choice when it comes to abortion.
I'm a Christian in my religion, so as an American I support the institution of marriage, even if it is by same sex matrimony.
Vernos, the list of my Christian beliefs that conflict with my views as an American citizen goes on and on.
According to other Christians, on my "Judgment Day", I may very well have to answer for my so-called religious disenchantments. Okay, this may be true, however, I'm an American who loves the true meaning and actions of freedom and I have served my country diligently doing my absolute best to uphold these principals. I cannot in good faith allow my religion to supersede my qualities of being a true American.
Now, back to the issue of debt and deficits; "Vernos" you wrote, "Even as sane Republican leaders are speaking out, many of their party continue on the path of self-destruction." Well, this would be both the Democrats and Republicans.
"Where there is no money, there are no rights. It is always an expensive process."
>B. Chapline<
Vernos Branco:
A Great American. The responses by Carmine, Rusty, RefNV, Future, BChap, and especially Bacon and Casler validate your 2009 and 2012 letters to the editor.
They PROVE your point.
Good work Vernos
Freeman said:
"Vernos,
Quit your left-wing socialist bashing of the party you oppose.
Vernos, you referenced a past LVS letter but you also have a few anti-capitalism quotes in your past posting as well. Here is a collection of your comments concerning capitalism:"
I say:
Pretty impressive collection of questions and quotes by Branco. Thanks for illustrating the wisdom of Mr. Branco.
I was going to search for some interesting quotes by you, but it seemed fruitless to think they exist. If I was looking for one dimensional comments by you, it would be quite easy...
Here's a novel idea. How about we stop being Republicans and Democrats, and become Americans trying to solve problems like immigration, the economy, the budget deficit, unemployment, social security, etc. You know the things that really matter.
All the blind adherence to a political ideology has done has stopped us from moving forward to solve the problems that need solving. I elected my representatives to solve problems, not to cling to some political ideology that prevents problems from being solved. I am tired of deadlock, and political posturing.
"The responses by Carmine, ...PROVE your point." @Jeffery
No, facts prove points. Points without facts prove pointless.
CarmineD
"Vernos, the list of my Christian beliefs that conflict with my views as an American citizen goes on and on." - BChap
To both Bradley and Vernos, I say that as soon as one grants that one can interpret "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's ..." as a primitive statement of the principle of separation of Church and State then is no conflict at all between Christian faith and being an American.
We could easily get into a theological discussion of this, that while we might find it entertaining and possibly informative, others would be bored to tears with. I will offer this thought: Bradley and I have very different views on religion, yet from what I can tell we both arrive at the same position with regard to separation of Church and State.
If those whose political persuasion is left of the GOPs will just be patient and let them talk, they'll eventually talk most out of voting for them. The GOP lost two Senate seats by demonstrating ignorance of women's reproductive processes and claiming knowledge of God's will.
A political party that preaches against government regulation of business but advocates government regulation of women has no coherent message on the proper role of government.
Hypocrisy will reveal itself. Just let 'em talk.
"All the blind adherence to a political ideology has done has stopped us from moving forward to solve the problems that need solving." - Tanker 1975
A columnist writing about the Modern Whigs said that for us, the final position arrived at might not matter as much as why or how that position was reached.
That is a true statement. We simply don't give a damn about where an idea originates, we care only that it is rational and solves/prevents the problem.
One commentator says to "Vernos", with minor revisions, "Responses by, BChap, and especially Bacon and Casler validate your letter to the editor. They PROVE your point.
My reply is, "My God, someone still needs help getting back up into their rocker from taking a political fall to the floor!"
bChap said:
"Vernos, if you owned a business, would you grant union demands that would take the entire company payroll expenditures well over thirty percent of the gross income of your business?"
I say:
You make comment that Vernos letter is "lame", then you ask an open ended ridiculous question as proof?
Ask the NBA, for instance. Service oriented companies, like house cleaning too.
Sorry to see the anti union monster has eaten you. If unions had a veto option on moving jobs out of America, and that would trigger a tariffed response, like with these cherry picked items no longer "Made In America"
Etch a Sketch. 1994
Converse shoes. 2001
Stainless Steel re-bar. 2002
Mattel Toys.2002
Minivans. 2003
Vending Machines. 2003
Levi Jeans. 2003
Radio Flyer's Red Wagon 2004
Televisions. 2004
Cell-phones 2007
RailRoad parts 2008
Dell computers January-2010
Canned sardines April-2010
Pontiac Cars May-2010
Forks,spoons, and knives June-2010
Incandescent light bulbs Sept-2010
These products are now made overseas and owned by foriegn companies.
To find more products made in foreign countries, take a stroll through a WalMart store. Also never mentioned is Hershey's candy confections. The famous Hershey Bar is now made in Mexico.
"All the blind adherence to a political ideology has done has stopped us from moving forward to solve the problems that need solving." - Tanker 1975......
That's why everyone should pledge their allegiance to the the flag and the need for term limits.
Enjoyed the letter, Vernos. I can't add much to it, but, as you can see from the comments, you really really spun up the righty commentators to even further unattainable fever pitch heights of ultra-conservative rhetoric.
The thing that is funny about this issue is that, even though we just went through an election, and the people have spoken by their votes what they want....there is this incredible backlash.
The American people rejected the ideology from the far right.
They want nothing to do with it.
They want a Government that works. A Government where they might not get the best results that they want, but...THEY WANT IT TO WORK.
The people spoke. But now, there's a movement afoot by the ultra-right to pound on things, bang on stuff, try to drown all that out. Bang that cowbell, righties. Louder. It's not what the people want, but when you have no message that's worth a crap, that's what you do best. Beat on something.
I recently saw an article where the entire Tea/Republican Party believes the reason why they faced losses in this last election was because of poor choices of candidates.
I say the problem is wayyyyyyyyy deeper than that. It's the message. The message is foul, disgusting and undigestable.
But in the righty world, you shoot the messenger, but you damn better well leave the message alone.
It is because of this is the main reason why the Tea/Republican Party will sink into further irrelevance.
But you can't tell them that. They won't listen.
The American people spoke this last election.
They not only spoke by using their right to vote, but they basically put their foot down.
The way it's going, they are going to speak again.
And I'd be willing to bet the Tea/Republican Party is not going to like what they are gonna say.
Again.
Go for Part II.
But don't listen to me, righties. I gotta feevah. The cowbell makes the song. Really hit that thing! I NEED MORE COWBELL, BABY!
Freeman
"This is yet another meaningless letter from a regular LVS partisan political poster.."
such as yourself? :-)
As I sit firmly in my "rocking chair", I'm getting a good taste of what Clint Eastwood felt like talking to the "Empty Chair" next to him.
I'm now being accused of being anti-union? What an absurd statement!
I'm both pro-union and pro-business. However, for both to excel and remain partners, one cannot bankrupt or take advantage of the other.
Please, no further comments from the floor. I don't understand mumblings from where I sit.
Vernos,
Everybody knows that you think the R party is filled with 'loons' who are supported by other 'loons' who support the R party.
What is your opinion of the D party and supporters of the D party? To my knowledge, you have not really given an opinion on that, at least not nearly to the same extent you comment on the R's.
Michael
In reply to Michael Casler; I remember "Vernos" saying he is a registered Independent.
Really??? I wasn't aware there were any Independent voters who abhor the "free enterprise" system. Was this just more thinking of another who has fallen out of their political rocking chair? By gosh, I think it is!!!
I think we have a winner here (a couple of them really).
In numerical order:
1. Per Vernos: Marginalize the folks that have written in opposition to his letter today. They will not contribute to a solution.
2. Shake the negativism of these people off and clear our heads.
3. Per Tanker: Invite all the rest of America to: "... How about we stop being Republicans and Democrats, and become Americans trying to solve problems like immigration, the economy, the budget deficit, unemployment, social security, etc. You know the things that really matter."
This a recipe I can live with.
"What is your opinion of the D party and supporters of the D party?"......
If you watch how, who and where the Democrats canvas for voters it shows they don't even have a respectful opinion of themselves. The depth that a few Chameleons in the Democrat Party and the media are willing to stoop to exploiting America's poorest is astounding.
Jim Weber,
I did not write the letter. LOL
Yesterday, I wrote one of the posters above that I prefer to debate topics with the goal of finding common ground versus reading and responding to highly partisan letters. Most of Vernos' posts/letters are highly partisan. IMHO, Vernos should write more about why he supports his own party rather than mis-characterizing the opposing party and its positions on issues.
Freeman:
With the country virtually (plus/minus 1 or 2 , occasionally 3 points, depending on the issue) split down the middle do you agree that we start at one dollar of cuts for every dollar of revenue?
And go forward from there?
And now, all of sudden, one of the liberal commentators said "Shake the negativism of these people off and clear our heads."
Yes, I'd say that's a very good idea! Those falls out of the political "rocking chair" sure can cloud judgments.
Bradley,
If Vernos would write that he sees much wrong with the policies of the D's and then be specific about what he sees as wrong, I'd have no problem with his criticisms of the R's. There is no doubt that there is much to criticize regarding the policies of the R's.
Michael
"Elected politicians threaten to secede from the United States and some are calling for the impeachment of the president."....
History repeating itself, and for the same reason, Lying!
Casler asked:
"What is your opinion of the D party and supporters of the D party? To my knowledge, you have not really given an opinion on that, at least not nearly to the same extent you comment on the R's."
I intrude into this conversation saying:
Similar to the Evangelical Christian vote where they feel, wrongly, IMHO, that they have only one choice of who to vote for, the democratic party is in many ways "republican lite" and they have in many cases left the people who vote democratic, but that are not members of either party (like me) held hostage like Clinton and NAFTA.
The truth is though that NAFTA and other trade agreements would be worse for America under the current model of republicanism, but I am hoping that they either get their act together so I can vote republican again, or they cease to exist.
In reply to Michael Casler; you are exactly right, Michael.
There can be no productive compromises met when both Democrats and Republicans are falling from their "rocking chairs" and crawling to the extreme edges of their political ideologies and stretching their personal desires from politics to way past its limits.
To Jim Bacon "boftx"; did I just see in this discussion room another liberal turn Independent.
My goodness Jim, you might be careful of the political company your are inviting into the Nevada Whig Party!!!
Whatever
Mr. Vernos Branco, of Las Vegas, Nevada,
It's called the Bubble! Not so much being crazy, the Republicans that you are referring to, live in a Bubble.
Please, if I may, offer insight of a person living in the Bubble. Read carefully, this will help you to understand why Republicans refuse to believe in long standing conventions, and they run against things they once championed and initiated.
Where the extreme Republicans reside, in The Bubble:
(1)The Bubble is place where a different reality exist.
(2)In the Bubble, messages and information are stretch and distorted from grains of truth from all of sources.
(3)A "Bubble Master" controls the messages and information inside the Bubble. A Bubble Master is the likes of Foxnews, Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove, Koch Brothers, the Bradley Foundation, or sites like the Drudge Report.
(4)The mission of the Bubble Master is to distort the smallest point of truth and mislead the people inside the Bubble.
(5)Once inside the Bubble you are officially a "Bubble Citizen."
(6)A Bubble Citizen who defends and repeats the distorted message or information from the Bubble Master, takes a rank known as, an "All In Bubble Citizen," aka AIBC.
(7)To qualify for the rank of AIBC one has to pay the Bubble Master for the distorted messages and information. Such as buying books or web subscriptions from the Bubble Master. This ensures the Bubble Citizen will commit to the distorted messages and information, and feel a sense of ownership to the Bubble Master. Like listening to Bill O'Reilly and Mike Huckabee, or Sean Hannity and buying whatever they are offering.
(8)No information is allowed to inside the Bubble without the Bubble Master's approval. In order for your message to be considered, one must approach the Bubble Master with an offering. This usually results in one lowering their standards, or a compromise on your values. In other words, you must act and think like the Bubble Master in order for your message to be reviewed by the Bubble Master. Still, your message will be distorted to conform to the Bubble Master standard. The key words are "distorted message."
(9)And lastly, once one is in the Bubble and becomes a Bubble Citizen or up in rank as a AIBC, nothing can be heard by them from someone outside the Bubble. The Bubble Master controls the message.
In other words, if your in a debate with a Bubble Citizen, the Bubble Citizen will only hear their points in the discussion and the distorted message from the Bubble Master. An outsider does not have chance. It's like talking to a stone wall. Some say, at least the stone wall is real.
The Bubble Citizen operates from an alternate reality, as does the Bubble Master.
Mr. Branco, with all humor aside, there is much truth in the above description.
"Elected politicians threaten to secede from the United States and some are calling for the impeachment of the president. These actions are based on hate and nothing else. . . . .They lost the election because rational people went to the polls and rejected the GOP stance on the economy and social issues."
Branco -- hardly. Secession petitions are made to the White House website with little more effort than it takes to post here. The president lacks authority to approve any state's secession. And the petitions have a far more substantial basis than what you allege. Texas for instance has secession written into its Constitution. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of that.
Republicans lost the election because it was decided ahead of time by our republic's true rulers. Romney looked good as a religious moderate compared to the crowd of jesus freaks vying for that nomination. The rest was just a show.
"I have no clue why the Las Vegas Sun continues to publish these lame letters to the editor where one political party is bashing the other."
BChap -- it's the price we all pay for free speech, duh!
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." -- Barry Goldwater in John Dean's "Conservatives Without Conscience" November 1994
"However, Vernos tends to take the most far right views of a minority of the R party and insists that is the whole party. That could be done with the far left of the D party as well but in both instances, it would be a gross generalization and be inaccurate".-Micheal Casler
__________________
I would submit that the Democrat Party has more far-left loonies in it's ranks and in positions of power then Republicans do. Of course they just label themselves as "progressives" in order to hide that. As was pointed out Vernos here was/is a supporter of OWS and you can't get anymore whacked politically then this group of nuts. We saw none other then people like Nancy Pelosi also pander to this group.
Bradley:
John Boehner, BOEHNER himself said that Obamacare is the law of the land now. What are republicans doing to help make this law better?
Answer: Add Texas Gov. Rick Perry, Maine Gov. Paul LePage, Ohio Gov. John Kasich, Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker to the list of Republican governors who are continuing to protest Obamacare by refusing to establish health insurance exchanges, in the process forcing the federal government to step in and create the exchanges itself.
What has the Obama admin done to pacify the infantile republican governors? Gave them an extension: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/us/sta...
These are facts Bradley. Republicans are being intransigent and getting in the way of progress. If you want to join the "both sides are equally bad brigade" go ahead, but it just isn't true.
Here is the law: http://www.ofr.gov/OFRUpload/OFRData/201... hate it or love it, IT IS THE LAW now. One side is trying to FOLLOW the LAW, the other side is ginning up the process.
Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack
From what I've seen here today, is the upcoming extinction of the Party Of Lincoln. For the most part Vernos is correct. For the most part the repub's are wrong. The American people have spoken and rebuked the Republican philosphy. Many of the 30 Governor's written about here are from very rural, mostly white states. Other Gov's(Such as Michigan's Snyder) are in deep trouble in their states. Just keep writing in these extreme's and the repug's will not win again.
Oh yes, by it's very nature politics is the art of compromise. And niether side is compromising much these days.
Jeff,
I think many Americans feel trapped into supporting either D's or R's. The R party has become too Conservative for many and the D party too Progressive.
That is a problem for me as well but over the time our debt and deficits from grown so large and so consistent, I have decided that isn't the most important issue any longer.
I have concluded that both parties are fully engaged in our corrupted legislative system that operates, makes decisions and passes legislation on the basis of money and support from powerful and wealthy individuals, unions, businesses and other groups. THAT is the most important issue and neither the R or D party ever even talks about this or show any inclination to change it.
That puts me in a place where I need to look for a party, a movement, something, where there is a recognition of this serious corruption of the branch of government that makes all our laws and sets all tax and fiscal policy and a commitment to do what necessary to fix it.
Unless this issue is addressed, the middle class is done and our country will never again be what is once was. Abortion, immigration, Progressive views, Conservative views, foreign policy, defense spending, entitlement spending, etc are all important issues, but none of them will matter if we continue to leave a system in place where these powerful interests manipulate our elected representatives with money so they can advantage themselves and disadvantage the rest of us.
The D party will not address this. The R party will not address this and if left unaddressed, it will destroy the country.
Michael
In reply to "KillerB"; yep it sure is the price of free speech that we have to pay. My two cents are just as good as anyone else's. "Duh"!!!
In reply to "LongTimeVegan"; I'm sorry, did you say there was humor in your "Bubble Master" comment? I missed that. Maybe I was "bubbling". I'm sorry, did you say there was truth in your "Bubble Master" comment? I'm sorry, I must have been bubbling.
Thank God. I was saved by the "Bubble"!!!
Jeff,
I find it hard to believe that if an R President got legislation passed with very little D support and then the Supreme Court ruled it Constitutional, but you fundamentally disagreed with the legislation, that you'd take the position that its the law of the land and just stop fighting it.
This argument is always made by both R's and D's when they are on the winning side and the opposite side continues to fight.
I'd have a lot more respect for each side, if when they were on the losing side, they actually would just lay down their arms and stop fighting. But you and I both know, that just doesn't happen... ever...with these two parties.
Michael
Much of the right has glommed onto the guy who owns Papa John's pizza having a one sided anti-Obama reaction to the election. He cleared up a few points:
"Companies like Papa John's are largely a collection of small independent businesses. The average Papa John's franchisee owns three to four stores. Since our franchisees own the restaurants they operate, who they hire, how many hours they give each employee and what they pay each employee is up to them, not me or Papa John's. Like any small business in these economic times, our franchisees are under a tremendous amount of pressure on costs.
During that same interview, talking about Obamacare I said, though it wasn't widely reported:
"The good news is 100% of the population (full-time workers) is going to get health insurance. I'm cool with that."
"We're all going to pay for it. There's nothing for free."
"And this way I get to provide health insurance and I'm not at a competitive disadvantage ... our competitors are going to have to do the same thing.""
Republicans woke up on November 6th with hope. For weeks Limbaugh, Dick Morris, O'Rielly and many other conservative pundits had been checking their guts, counting yard signs in the neighborhood and hearing little voices inside their heads.
This stream of empirical data had one clear message: Romney was about to be elected president! Finally, that lazy no good 47% moocher class would get their due -- a leader who watched out for the country club elites and was not at all concerned about the very poor.
It all sounded too good to be true. And it was.
Hopefully the GOP won't change a thing, they'll stick to their guns and keep shooting themselves in the foot. You know the saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That is now the official definition of being a conservative.
In reply to "Jeff from Vegas"; no thank you on any debates with you. I've reached my term limits in politically speaking to per se, "Empty Chairs".
In reply to Michael Casler; I applaud your tenacity in attempting to fill the "Empty Chair" next to you with political intelligence and reasoning. However, I have to wonder when your term limits will expire in speaking to the "Empty Chair"? If you don't have any term limits on this, you should. I don't know about you, but this man does know his limitations when it comes to dealing with a pile of rocks.
Vernos, Excellent letter and posts!
The traditional Republican party of Eisenhower, Rockefeller, Dirksen, Hatfield, George Romney, Ford and some others no longer exists. Those that have, and are now wearing the Republican label are totalitarian, corrupt, and incompetent.
Reagan, Bush Sr., and especially the bush jr. mis-administration massively increased the National Debt and almost totally wrecked the economy. In their 20 years in office they never balanced a budget.
Prior to Reagan and the Bushies, the traditional Republicans and Democrats reduced the ND in 27 out of 35 years.
These radical extremist republicans hide behind the US flag, the Christian cross, and use the Big Lie propaganda to convince, fool, and even brainwash the citizens.
Their narrow minded ideologies they turn into policies have been disastrous failures for the American people.
The only thing that can save the real Republican party is if the Traditional Republicans that are still standing make the maximum effort to retake the remnants of their party away from the radical extremists.
Then, the traditional Republicans and Democrats can go down that Road of Democracy together into a brighter future.
Michael said:
"I'd have a lot more respect for each side, if when they were on the losing side, they actually would just lay down their arms and stop fighting. But you and I both know, that just doesn't happen... ever...with these two parties."
I say:
I think personally, allowing someone like me to own firearms is CRAZY. I also know I am never going to have the USA become like Japan, so I have armed myself anyway.
You never know when a republican will show up at the front door.
I AM a realist.
Bradley:
With the comment "In reply to "Jeff from Vegas"; no thank you on any debates with you. I've reached my term limits in politically speaking to per se, "Empty Chairs"." you have proved my relevance.
With regard to calling me an "empty chair", you have a history of jumping back and forth over the fence, staying with and against a candidate or an issue. There is little in the way of long term consistency, so I am not offended by your current position.
This too, shall pass.
The GOP has lost it's way,they had really nothing to present in the past election but nonsense.The voter's have spoken and it's time for the Republican party to wake up and listen to what's being said.Gridlock seems to be the key to moving forward for the Republicans.And it very well could cost them dearly in the midterm elections,if they don't change their thinking and ways.
Bradley,
I for one am glad to see your thinking evolving. You and I would disagree on most things politically I think, but at least you are willing and able to criticize both sides where you think the criticism is deserved. That alone puts you one BIG step ahead of all the totally partisan letters writers (on both sides) that write into the SUN. Keep up the good work...
Michael
All this nonsense about free abortions and calling conservatives names - while Obama watches the middle east meltdown
Democrats need to use their so called mandate and fix the middle east or get out
Stop the meltdown or get out
Iran
Syria
Libya
Gaza
Iraq
Afganistian
Yemen
Get out now
sam pizzo, Adding to your post--Obama became President on 1-20-2009, and the assault on President Obama, his staff, and Department heads began by the radical extremist republicans.
Senator Mitch McConnell stated that the Republi-Cons would make very effort to make Obama a one term president. The so-called republicans in Congress initiated a strategy of obstruction and sabotage of the economy, just so they could blame President Obama.
The fiscally irresponsible so-called republicans are primarily responsible for the almost financial market collapse because of their narrow minded ideology of totally unregulated capitalism that gave the green light to unbelievable criminal greed that almost totally wrecked our economy and will take decades to fully recover.
You and I would work with someone to fix the problem we created, but the miserable failure Republi-Cons decided not to help Obama and the Democrats fix their own mess.
The folowing info is from a Las Vegas Sun editorial on the results of the almost financial market collapse:
The loss of approximately $34 Trillion of America's wealth that took over 220 years to create and will take decades to recover.
The loss of 5,000,000 jobs.
Over 400,000 families pushed into poverty.
Millions of homes foreclosed upon.
$100,00=the average loss of homeowner equity.
Also, the middle class lost 40% of their wealth and their incomes declined 10%.
Don't you think these statistics prove that the so-called republicans are truly off their rockers?
Remember when the delusional Dick Morris predicted a Romney landslide on the Faux News channel?
If Dumbocrats took the House Maxine Waters would be chairman of House Finance Comittee. And that woman is bat-sh*t crazy! Even for a Dim.
Of course she could launder more stimulus to her husband's bank.
What happened to the Republicans is they let the patients (Teabaggers) run the asylum (Republican Party). It all started with their embrace of the "Moral Majority" and other religious zealots like the Right to Life nutjobs who chain themselves to the doors of abortion clinics. It continued with Right Wing Hate Radio, Fox News and the idiotic Teabaggers. I think that after these last few elections, the Republican leadership probably realizes that they have a problem. However, they may still not be able to change this until a few more crippling losses at the polls. The solution for them is simple: Get back to being reality based. Embrace science, logic, conservative economic principles and eliminate xenophobia. Purge the idiots who deny global warming, evolution and Laffer curve economics (for which the inflexion point have never been defined) and the freaks who hate anyone who looks a little "different". Do this now, and you will be completely viable in the next election. You may even get my vote some day.
Vidi,
There were plenty of regulators and regulations to prevent the financial crisis we went through. The regulators failed. In addition, because Congress is awash in money, powerful interests in real estate, banking, the mortgage industry, and Wall Street were able to get legislation passed that allowed the financial and real estate sectors to run wild.
This was not the result of one party. Instead, it was the result of not moving to 'public' financing of campaigns, not going to Congressional term limits and not having serious lobbying reform. Neither party advocated any of that and worse yet, even after the crisis, neither party advocates any of that.
By blaming one party or the other for what was primarily caused by a corrupted Congressional system simply works to keep the status quo in place and prevents the real solutions from being enacted.
Michael
Angry Sheldon Adelson? $50 million flushed down the toilet.
American Crossroads PAC? $300 million up in smoke.
Watching Karl Rove's election night meltdown on Faux News? Priceless.
Megan Kelly to Rove:
"Is this just math that you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better, or is this real?"
Bill Clinton, former US president
Politicians' current plan to help prevent another financial crisis is to ringfence banks' risky "casino banking" divisions from the more pedestrian high street banking departments. 13 years ago Clinton repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, which had done just that. Clinton's move, which came after fierce lobbying from bankers, heralded the birth of superbanks and primed the sub-prime pump.
He also signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit-default swaps from regulation.
Around the same time Clinton also beefed up President Carter's 1977 Community Reinvestment Act -- forcing lenders to take a more sympathetic approach to poor borrowers trying to get on the housing ladder.
Only in the Dumbocrat party could someone who caused so much damage to the country be idolized as a rockstar. Maybe someday he will realize that he's not irreplaceable. But considering the mindless dumbocrat base, probably not.
See it here again and again -- delusional Dick Morris predicts a Romney landslide (325 EV) on the Faux News channel:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2...
Rusty57,
There is plenty of blame to spread around for the financial crisis. Several Presidents, including former President Clinton and former President Bush share blame and so do the Congresses under both Presidents. Neither parties supporters are willing to agree that their side was partly responsible and that is the problem. Until that changes, most of us are going to continue to suffer.
Michael
Since the states wanting to secede are mostly in hurricane country or tornado alley, let them go. This will save billions in tax dollars and the education system will get an immediate fix.
"You don't need a weather man to tell which way the wind blows." Bob Dylan
Vernos Branco is probably right. I have many friends that are Republicans and and they seem rational until it's election time. That's when the weird emails and cartoons start being posted on Facebook.
Election time is when I find out how much they support people like Sarah Palin and Richard Mourdock and Paul broun and every other looneytoon that believes in voodoo economics and that the earth is only six thousand years old.
I love these people but I have to avoid them during elections. They become zombies controlled by Fox News and Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. And I can't shut them up at dinner parties. The worst thing is that no matter what insanely stupid comment a Republican makes, they will defend it. "A child from rape is a gift from God": WHAT? "Evolution and the big bang are lies straight from the pit of hell": SERIOUSLY? "People voted for Obama because of gifts": REPUBLICANS ARE OFF THEIR ROCKERS!
I submit that anyone who cannot see that the Republican party is becoming more and more disconnected from the demographics of the current America is immune to evidence.
LastThroes @ 8:46 a.m.: "Remember when the delusional Dick Morris predicted a Romney landslide on the Faux News channel?"
>>Karl Rove believed it right up to the end. He was so shocked. Why? There is information circulating now that Rove rigged the Ohio vote counting system like he did in 2004, but this time the fix was thwarted. Stay tuned.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/12845-ano...
http://truth-out.org/news/item/12871-why...
http://truth-out.org/news/item/12787-why...
With all this back and forth, before I vaporize and quit posting for the holidays. I want to wish everyone here, including those who play on the other team a truly perfect Thanksgiving.
My brother met my 2 3/4 year old daughter for the first time last night.
That was a perfect moment.
I hope you all have your own perfect moments, and I will ask anyone with no one to share the day with, if they would like to please send me personal message here: http://www.lasvegassun.com/users/JeffFro... I will make some time for you.
Casler, Your post at 9:07 am is just pure rationalization. Put the blame where it belongs--around the necks of the radical extremist, fiscally irresponsible Republi-Cons.
Dearest rusty 57, Please provide links, or at least the titles to articles that would prove your post of 9:07 am.
PS Rupert Murdoch's WSJ came out with that article blaming Fannie & Freddie, and the CRA for the bursting of the housing fraud bubble that almost collapsed the financial markets. That has been totally debunked.
Just type in "Fannie and Freddie acquitted."
Barry Ritholtz was offering anyone $100,000 if they could prove that F & F was responsible. There were no takers.
All that matters are the cold, hard facts.
antigov @ 9:23 a.m.: "Since the states wanting to secede are mostly in hurricane country or tornado alley, let them go. This will save billions in tax dollars and the education system will get an immediate fix."
Right, they will relinquish all the gifts they get from the Blue States due to that "redistribution" they hate so much. Good luck with that move, Secessionists.
On my thank you list for tomorrow:
Thank you Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Fox and Friends, Richard Mourdock, Todd Akin, Joe Walsh and the GOP for losing the election.
Vidi,
Thanks for not addressing anything I said except to call it rationalization. The D's in Congress, of course had nothing to do with anything that went wrong. Just keep wearing those blinders.... exactly what both the R and D party want us all to do.
I took mine off. You should try it. You'd be amazed at what you could see.
Michael
Vidi: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/...
Michael: Of course there is plenty of blame to spread around. Just pointing out how Bill Clinton laid quite a bit of groundwork for the financial crisis.
BTW, don't look now, but the FHA will need a bailout soon. How would we ever survive without our federal buraucracies????
In reply to Michael Casler; my thinking on politics has always been the same. I'm an Independent with leanings to the Democratic side.
Yes Michael, if there were no Independent political parties we would disagree on most everything. For, you are an Independent with political leanings to the Republican side. We both think outside the "Empty Chair" and the "Pile of Political Rocks" that consume both the standard Democrats and Republicans.
An example is, "The Empty Chair" says, "BChap, you have a history of jumping back and forth over the fence, staying with and against a candidate or an issue. There is little in the way of long term consistency, so I am not offended by your current position. This too, shall pass."
The fact is, both "The Empty Chair" and the "Political Pile of Rocks" believe if I side with Republicans on a particular issue, I'm a "right-winger". Opposite of the spectrum, should I agree with an issue that Democrats support, I'm a "left-winger". I don't like being labeled as either one. I'm an INDEPENDENT now, and always have been.
Yes Michael, we are both one BIG step ahead of all the totally partisan letters writers (on both sides) that write into the SUN. However, the "Empty Chairs" and the "Pile of Political Rocks" don't think so. Well, I guess this should be of no surprise to either of us!
rusty 57 at 10:48 am, President Clinton did not hold a gun to the heads of the Housing and Financial sectors Fraudsters that committed the biggest Fraud in history.
They were so blinded by greed and there were hardly anyone at the regulatory agencies to prevent that criminal greed because of the Republi-Cons ideology of totally unregulated capitalism that gutted the regulatory agencies. In many cases the Fraudsters involved were their own regulators.
In one case, the SEC had a printer that did not work and there was no funding to fix or buy a new one. They had to go to Kinko's and spend their own money to make copies.
In the CFTC, there was one law judge that put so many obstacles in front of the pro se complainants that they were forced to drop out or settle for peanuts for their clients.
Vernos, Vernos, Vernos...
Whatever could you mean?
The 'Obummer's a Socialist Muslim Marxist from Kenya' crowd that crows, 'The Mad Hatter gets fired on Nov. 6! Adults back in charge!' So thankfully, we'll be saved from 'Obamacare & his Death Panels' and/or 'spared from being rounded up and put in FEMA re-education camps by the Muslim Leader of the New World Order' (for months and MONTHS like a childish, CHURLISH mantra) are surely & FIRMLY grounded in reality...right?
I mean, Sean freakin' HANNITY told every last one of 'em, 'YOU are a GREAT AMERICAN!' and Karl ROVE practically guaranteed a Romney LANDSLIDE in support of such erudite right-wing rhetoric...
and what about Terrible Ted Nugent, for crying out loud??? Or MEAT LOAF??? Or Hank Jr.??? (Or FUTURE???)
Well, it's a wonder indeed that such an assemblage could be mistaken...
Some things just make my day. Here is one of those things:
"Yes Michael, we are both one BIG step ahead of all the totally partisan letters writers (on both sides) that write into the SUN. However, the "Empty Chairs" and the "Pile of Political Rocks" don't think so. Well, I guess this should be of no surprise to either of us!".
Here is a song of tribute to you Bradley!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO1gzuq2T...
Vidi: Clinton blaming Bush for "deregulatin" the banks is comical. But he is the rockstar now, isn't he.
Rarely am I impressed by articles that bloggers here refer us to, but the three that Bluejeans pointed us to at 9:53 were really interesting, and thought promoting. Thank you Bluejeans!
By RHG58 Nov. 21, 2012 @ 7:39 a.m.
"As was pointed out Vernos here was/is a supporter of OWS and you can't get anymore whacked politically then this group of nuts."
>>FYI, RHG58: The OWS (Occupy Wall Street) movement has been spending their personal funds buying credit card and medical debts from collection agencies and foreclosure companies and paying them off on behalf of the debtors who are destitute, and their homes have been saved from foreclosure. In addition, OWS founded Occupy Sandy to aid the hurricane victims, in case you care to contribute. Many of the members of OWS have been on the East Coast helping rescue and aid the victims, and helping with the massive cleanup effort. That's a short list of the many good things OWS has been doing for communities. In addition, the Prime Minister of Great Britain praised the OWS movement and said they were correct about the banking industry and Wall Street.
Just goes to show that you can get more whacked politically than OWS. Such as yourself, for instance.
New Rule --
Republicans should from this day forward be banned from making predictions about anything that's less predictable than, say, the sun rising in the East and setting in the West.
If, for example, a republican warns of mushroom clouds and stockpiles of WMD in Iraq, that sick individual shall be handcuffed and taken to a secret location where she or he is waterboarded until they promise to STFU and never again predict anything, period.
Or if a right-wing pundit goes on TV and says that the polls are skewed and therefore the GOP candidate will win in a landslide, that person shall be put on a one-way, nonstop flight to Tehran where they will be taken hostage and held indefinitely by Islamic radicals.
I'm sure those few remaining sane republicans will understand and agree to these harsh measures. Urgent action is needed now before Dick Morris and Rush Limbauh begin telling us yet again which GOP losers will win in the next elections.
Comment removed by moderator. - -
rusty 57, Where have you been? The Housing Fraud Bubble grew and grew under the bush/cheney miserable failure administration with little or no regulation.
Clinton was not in the picture. You are thoroughly confused.
Hats off to the republican and democratic lawmakers in 3 of the original colonies, I have to agree with Maine, Massachusetts and Rhode Island lawmakers, who decided to prohibit big retailers from opening on Thanksgiving Day.
God Bless America, and give your employees the day off with pay.
Jeff, I join with you. I don't shop on Thanksgiving Day. Store employees deserve a holiday, they will work their butts off on Black Friday and the pre-Christmas shopping season. I hope those who are forced to work on holidays are paid double-time. I don't shop on Black Friday either. It's too crazy.
The president should be impeached. The record of the actions of the White House and his appointees is one that should both frighten and embarrass every American who believes in freedom and supports the US Constitution.
Agreeing to all the outrageous demands made by socialists attempting to crash the country is not compromise, it's treason. Any objective critique of the stated goals, ideology and means to achieve them by reasonable men and women would conclude the same.
Remember, this is the president who openly admitted that when the bad times came he would side with his Muslim brothers, used cocaine, never considered military service, spent twenty years in a church that preaches militant racist social justice, agreed that the ends justify the means, lost his law license, was involved with felons including one who helped him buy a home in a shady deal and later went to jail; and inhaled allot. .. just to mention a few.
The Obama Administration is the new Tammany Hall, the bakers union and the vestigial appendages of the Communist Party all rolled into one.
Norman Mattoon Thomas (11/20/84 - 12/19/68) was a leading American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America. The following has been attributed to him: 'The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of liberalism, the will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.' He went on to say: 'I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.'
Only the naive, the ignorant, the easily fooled or those seeking to install socialism could see the road we are on as good for America. Nixon was an amateur by comparison.
"Republicans off their rocker""
Well, at least they own their own rocker.
: 0
Whether devout Christian, Hindu, Jew or Muslim, an agnostic or atheist, or a devout political ideologist, actions and words invalidate or validate the credibility of each one's claim or comment.
Both politics and religion, or lack of one, would be better served by changing the tone and adding caring, respect and tolerance to the dialogue.
What do personal attacks serve, except to reflect negatively on the attacker?
What does denigrating people or entities accomplish, except to reflect negatively on the one denigrating?
Most everyone in the Opinion forums has good intentions, wishes the best for our country, and is sincere in their caring for what happens.
Thanks to those who make an effort to listen, share their concerns, ideas, and possible solutions, whether I agree with your position or not. Nor do you have to agree with me. It is the manner in which we all relate to each other that is important.
dukeofdeath wrote,
"I love these people but I have to avoid them during elections. They become zombies controlled by Fox News and Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. And I can't shut them up at dinner parties."(John Wayne)
Mr. Wayne, your trying to communicate with people in the Bubble. Anyone in the Bubble is considered a Bubble Citizen, controlled by a Bubble Master like Foxnews, or Glen Beck, Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh and other extreme personalities who are out front speaking for the extreme right of the Republican Party. Senator John McCain and Lindsey Graham have become Bubble Citizens as well with there attack on US Ambassdor Susan Rice.
As stated in the message reply to the feature article by Mr. Vernos Branco posted on Nov. 21, 2012 at 7:28 a.m, a full explanation of the Bubble syndrome is outlined for a clear understanding of people your dealing with who refuse to accept reality. You know, like Republican refusing to accept President won re-election. Or people refusing to accept 2+2=4. The Bubble does not allow any information in, only information going out. It is very important to know, that the Bubble Master controls the message inside the Bubble. A gain of truth is distorted beyond recognition piped into the Bubble, indoctrination everyone the Bubble making them into Bubble Citizen. A Bubble Citizen cannot hear your words, they can only hear themselves.
If your in a debate with a Bubble Citizen, the Bubble Citizen will not hear you. They are in a different reality. You be wasting good words trying to debate a Bubble Citizen. As we are seeing many responses to Mr. Vernos Branco. The Bubble is a different reality. The only cure for a Bubble Citizen to remove the person from the Bubble.
Vernos.......GREAT LETTER!
YES, republicans are off their rockers again.
And republican extremeists are still jumping off
the deep end.
Republicans still live in the bubble.
Extremist teabaggers took over the party and
moderate republicans are still afraid to call
them out.
And the count today shows that republicans only
won 47% of the votes.
I wonder what romney thinks about that 47%?
The majority of Americans REJECTED REPUBLICAN
POLICY.
That's the bottom line.
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!
Tell that to the people at Hostess.
Comment removed by moderator. It was a bad analogy in the context of a personal attack.
"Jeff, I join with you. I don't shop on Thanksgiving Day. Store employees deserve a holiday, they will work their butts off on Black Friday and the pre-Christmas shopping season. I hope those who are forced to work on holidays are paid double-time. I don't shop on Black Friday either. It's too crazy." @Suzy Savarise
First and foremost, workers have a right to picket and demonstrate whenever and wherever they want, within limits. And the response should always be to give them more leeway to do so, and not less.
Having said that let's look at the reality of winning the hearts and minds of others in doing so.
Many years ago my wife and I, and infant daughter, invited my in-laws [my father-in-law was a recently retired Command Sargent Major, an NCO for those not familiar with the militar] to an Easter dinner at the Officers Club in Ft. Belvoir, Virginia. Naturally, it was a Sunday. The place was packed. Beautifully decorated with ice sculptures for Easter and more food and assortment thereof, than I ever saw in any one place in my entire lifetime up to then and since.
The Officers Club staff was in full force, gracious, polite, accomodative and definitely customer satisfaction oriented, long before the concept became the business buzz. After our hours long dining experience, I made it a point to go to the head MC and her staff to commend them. She was very happy to hear my thanks and appreciation. In the course of our discussion, I said, as a practicing Catholic myself, that it was too bad she must spend her entire Sunday working to serve others. The MC looked at me and said I'm in the food service business. It comes without saying that when you make this your vocation, you have to expect to work on Sundays and holidays to make a living.
She was absolutely correct and no doubt her attitude was in larger part the reason for the huge success of the Easter Day dining event at Ft. Belvoir, VA.
CarmineD
Vidi: "rusty 57, Where have you been? The Housing Fraud Bubble grew and grew under the bush/cheney miserable failure administration with little or no regulation."
Vidi, again, I pointed out where clinton laid the groundwork for the housing meltdown. The fact that these things take a few years to develop seems to confuse you.
Moderator seems to protect the blessed Branco above and beyond the norm. Am he a Brancophile or a Roughaphobe?
To: Longtimevegan: I truly endorse your well articulated article. I love the "bubble world" because it clearly explains why the MESSAGE that Republicans lost the 2012 Presidential election, yet they seem to believe that this huge fact has little or no meaning to them. If one would only allow themselves the privilege of listening to the 20 most outstanding things( Rachel Maddow) that we as Americans will not be facing in the next four years, you would thus appreciate that in a Democracy such as OURS- that to lose is to LISTEN. MItt Romney/Paul Ryan ideas was thoroughly rejected by the AMERICAN Electorate. My advise to you is to change the TV channel once and while and hear what others that don't always think like you are saying.
re: Carmine @ 8:36 a.m. 11/23/12
It must not occur to you that other people have experiences, including eating in restaurants that might be open on a holiday. Your Easter Sunday dinner parable and the remark that you are Catholic has nothing to do with retail stores. I know from experience that working on Sundays and Holidays is expected in some occupations. You addressed my brief comment because it expressed sympathy for retail store workers who have to work on Thanksgiving, and I said I hope they get paid double-time. My comment had nothing to do with picketing but, since you brought it up, here's an Easter parable for you: My Dad was a police officer most of his life, and of course he worked on holidays. He took college courses and worked his way up the ranks and eventually was appointed Chief of Police. When I was a teenager, during one Easter week the patrolmen were out a few days with "blue flu". Dad as the chief, and the shift dispatchers manned the station themselves. We hardly saw Dad that week, he was at the station day and night. On Easter Sunday, our family did a surprise "Easter parade" parody as we brought Easter dinner into the station for Dad and the dispatcher. It was fun, and Dad said he didn't mind manning the station. Although he was no longer a police union member, he believed the patrolmen had good reasons for striking. Funny how rightwingers like to impose and legislate their religious beliefs, morality and traditions on others when it suits them, extolling "family values". It was rightwingers, Pat and his daughter Beigh Buchanan, who started that absurd "war on Christmas" hysteria, for instance. In this case, the "market" and the almighty dollar supercede Thanksgiving, a national traditional family day and, for some, a holy day. Next the retail stores will be open on Christmas Day so they can grab those cash gifts and gift-cards. It has been said by economists and labor experts that American workers are the most productive in the world, working more hours with less vacation and holidays than European workers. It's truly disgraceful, the ideas expressed by rightwingers, that workers are simply commodities, numbers on balance sheets, easily exploited and discarded to increase profits. They blame the workers when a company goes bankrupt, while the executives get mammoth salaries and bonuses and the vulture takeover artists make millions. Today's Republicans are so extreme they don't know what conservative or moderate is. One of your leaders, Eric Cantor, attempted to turn Labor Day into a celebration of employers and entrepreneurs. Another reason your party lost the election and is now "off their rockers". And another very good reason why there's a growing labor movement and you haven't seen the last of the unions.
Roger Warrick,
I like a little humor when writing about the Bubble syndrome.
As you read, much of the humor is reality, based on what America People are seeing from people like Newt Gingrich, John Sinunu, Allen West, Michele Bachamn. Peter King, and on, and on.
The reason why we have so many Bubble Citizens in the House of Representative is because many Democrats and Independents were not involved during the 2010 mid-term elections. Plus the Tea Party and Foxnews, with help from the Koch Brother and shadow donors like the Bradley Foundation, indoctrinated a half-sleep and unconcerned TV watching public.
The Bubble Citizen will not seek information outside the Bubble. If the message does not come from within the Bubble---through the Bubble Master, the message will not be heard by the Bubble Citizen. That's why you can never have a debate with a Bubble Citizen. They can't hear you, unless your message is coming through the Bubble. Remember, the Bubble Master controls the message. So, your message would be distorted and redone, "if" the Bubble Master chose to use your message. Further more, in order to get your message to the Bubble Master, you would have to compromise your values and your position, to the standards of the Bubble Master in order for you to talk with the Bubble Master. Now you see, it's not worth communicating with a person in Bubble if one has to become a Bubble Citizen.
So changing the channel will not help. :) Just a little humor reflecting reality.
"And another very good reason why there's a growing labor movement and you haven't seen the last of the unions." @Suzy Savarise
Private sector unions are dead and dying. 50 years ago 37 percent of US workers were union members. Now, it's 7 percent. The only unions that are surviving are public and that's because they have a monopoly on pay and benefits because they have [had] an endless supply of taxpayer money. Even public unions are being crushed all over the nation. BTW, I was a Chief Steward for AFSCME.
CarmineD