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StumbleMurren: Locals will visit Strip to go to CityCenter
MGM Mirage executive says investment will pay off over years
Sam Morris / Las Vegas Sun
Bram and Sarah Tihany take in the view from the Mandarin Bar at the grand opening of the Mandarin Oriental at CityCenter, Friday, Dec. 4, 2009.
Tuesday, Dec. 8, 2009 | 2:06 p.m.
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Sun Archives
- CityCenter unveils Crystals retail district (12-3-09)
- Vdara exec predicts strong sales at new hotel (12-3-09)
- Vdara hotel marks opening of CityCenter (12-1-09)
Sun Coverage
MGM Mirage Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Jim Murren this week said he isn’t crazy and neither was opening his company’s $8.5 billion CityCenter project in one of the worst economies Las Vegas has seen.
“We have to look back and look at how long it's taken to develop this, look at the money we've expended and look at it from a return on investment perspective,” Murren said during an interview Monday on “Face to Face With Jon Ralston.”
“It can't be over a year or two period of time,” Murren said. “It has to be over, in this economy, it has to be over a five- or 10-year period of time.”
MGM Mirage and joint-venture partner Dubai World opened three of CityCenter’s buildings last week, including the Vdara hotel and condo tower, luxury hotel Mandarin Oriental and the Crystals high-end retail mall. The 4,004-room Aria resort will open next week.
Murren said he knows locals – including himself – often don’t go to the Strip unless they are acting as a tour guide for family and friends. He said he believes CityCenter will be a different attraction.
“I’ve lived here for 11 years and I know people don’t go to the Strip unless friends are in town but they will come to CityCenter,” Murren said. “They will park, they’ll wander around, they’ll look at the art, they’ll look at the architecture. I believe this firmly, that people will be inspired.”
L.A. Weekly quoted Murren last week as saying he had never been inside newer luxury resorts on the Strip like the Encore or Palazzo. He said he’s never had a reason to.
“I live in Summerlin. I coach my kids. I have a lot of restaurants out there and if I didn’t work in the resort community I probably wouldn’t come down here [the Strip] much,” Murren said. “And that was my point. I really wouldn’t be upset if people that live here never visited Aria. I would be upset if people didn’t try to wander around CityCenter and enjoy the environment.”
After years of living in Las Vegas, Murren, a New York City transplant, said he felt a yearning for a more urban environment. That led him to help MGM Mirage develop its own urban metropolis, a city within a city comprised of residences, resorts, a shopping mall, public art and “pocket parks.”
While Las Vegas doesn’t have a downtown area like San Francisco or New York, Murren said he thought the company could create some elements of it.
“I long for some basic elements that I'm used to having, culturally, educationally, medically, infrastructure. I really believe that if we create something wonderful right on the Strip, tourists will come to it,” Murren told Ralston, who also writes a column for the Sun. “We're in the for-profit business. We need to make money on this, but it's also something for the community.”
Murren said several times during last week’s CityCenter openings that MGM Mirage’s intention never was to build “just another casino.”
“I don't think we needed another themed hotel-casino. I don't think anyone really believes that firmly. What do we need here? Do we need another arena? We have three. Do we need more shopping at a mall? No,” he said. “But, what we could use, what we do need is something to inspire people. I think the architecture will. I think the public spaces will.”
Six of CityCenter’s facilities -- Mandarin Oriental, Veer Towers, Vdara, Crystals, Aria’s convention center and theater, and hotel tower -- are LEED Gold certified. Murren said “green” facilities are one of the key items companies look for when booking conventions.
“There is a demographic of people who do care about the environment when they're booking their hotel rooms. I think it's a marketing position. That's not why we did it,” Murren said. “We did it because we're a leader in the community and leaders have to lead. I would be very disappointed if other buildings do not follow this standard going forward.”
MGM Mirage is also hoping to attract international customers with its apartment-like accommodations and the urban feel of CityCenter. The reason: International guests stay longer and spend more, Murren said.
Rates at Vdara will begin at $159 while rates at Aria will start at $179 during its opening next week. The lower rates will help get guests into the resorts during their debuts, Murren said.
Murren thanked Sens. Harry Reid and John Ensign for their roles in helping MGM Mirage secure the funding it needed when the company was on the brink of bankruptcy.
“Senators Reid and Ensign and our congresspeople made a lot of calls for me, particularly Senator Reid,” Murren told Ralston. “Senator Reid did not get the banks to lend me money, nor did Senator Ensign. But what they did do, which was critical, was get people to give us the time of day.”
Dubai World has been in the news recently for issues related to its own debt. Dubai World, which has about $60 billion in debt, said last month that it asked creditors if it could postpone forthcoming payments until at least May.
Whether Dubai World will be a partner in CityCenter years down the road, Murren said, is unknown.
“What I do know is all their money is in CityCenter. All our money is in. The project's fully funded,” Murren said. “I have a very good relationship with Dubai World right now. I do not know what the ownership of CityCenter will be next year or five years from now.”
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Locals will visit City Center once. They will quickly realize that they cannot afford any of the restaurants, shops, or high table limits and they won't come back again. As for the "pocket parks".... hmmm... I believe there are real parks in Summerlin and other neighborhoods. Locals are going to travel to the Strip to sit in a park and look at sculptures? This guy has his head in the clouds.
Murren has repeatedly said in recent interviews that he believes the architecture of CityCenter will 'inspire' people. Umm... inspire them to do what exactly? Spend more money?
Count me a s one of the "no shows." I tell everyone I know that htese clowns are backing Harry Reid, to the detriment of Nevada and the U.S. They deserve to sink.
"Do we need more shopping at a mall? No," he said. "But, what we could use, what we do need is something to inspire people. I think the architecture will. I think the public spaces will."
Funny,they put in a mall,anyways.
What is Murren smoking?
Local will visit - lol that has to be one of the stupidest statements and shows just how out of touch he is with his market.
1st - Nevada has one of the highest unemployment is the country.
2nd - City Center looks like a big stainless steel monster with no warmth or charm.
3rd - Locals know that the tables are going to be high stacks, the shops are going to be over priced and the restaurants way to expensive.
4th - Who wants to fight the traffic then park in a garage that is 4 miles from the Casino and walk? Not me. That is why I don't do Caesars I exhausted by the time I finally get in.
Murren - you are totally out of touch! At least with the older strip you could catch a Volcano show, walk down the street see a Pirate show and catch maybe a fountain show. All I see with City Center is a big impersonal Monster that I have no intention of entering.
I am disappointed to learn that Mr. Murren has never been to the Encore or even the Palazzo. Where is his professional interest? Any analyst does that-analyzes. Steve Wynn, on a trip to Italy, saw and discovered, and then was inspired to create the Bellagio, admittedly one of the finest destination resorts in the world. There are very few new ideas...just improvements on what one sees. There is more vehicular, congested traffic on the Strip than there is in downtown Manhattan...Las Vegans will not fight the crowds to visit an urban center.
So far from what I've seen, City Center will inspire two big things in people:
1. Learn in invest money wisely, and not to blow it like MGM has done with City Center.
2. Learn to socialize and communicate with other people as you try to figure out the world's worst numbering scheme in the Hotel Tower...
Honestly, if City Center wants to attract locals, then let us know when Crystals has a Wal-Mart and a Dollar Loan Center on site.
"He's never been inside newer luxury resorts..like Encore or Palazzo. He said he's never had a reason to"
How about.. because your company is about to invest 8.5 billion into the market, because you are the CEO, because it is irresponsible to turn a blind eye to your competitions resorts.
Everything he says just seems so contradictary. He thinks architecture will inspire people and yet he discounts the architecture of themed hotels. I get more inspiration from Luxor, Caesars, Venetian than from an office tower.
Perhaps if he bothered to leave Summerlin and check out his competition he would have discovered public spaces, art, stores, and parks (by the way...you only have one 'park'..not parks. )
If he wants to be so apart of this City within a city concept, I'm sure he will be moving his family into it. You can play softball in one of your pocket parks.
People need to get over it already... Murren was going after a "city" urban paradise right? Real cities have real traffic... Not saying he manufactured the traffic but it comes with the territory... That wont stop anyone from going because another 10-15 minutes in the car wont kill you... Also, (hopefully) if the restaurants are good, they will come... I know I will... I dont understand what people wanted on the land that CC ate up? Visit vegastodayandtomorrow.com and take a look at the projects that we could have been stuck with... A Titanic themed hotel?! A Harley Davidson resort?! A Hillbillies theme joint?! CMON! And for those of you who dislike the size or cost of CC... Take a look at The Moon project?! Thank god we got CC instead!!
What kind of competitor doesn't visit the competition?I wouldn't buy MGM stock with counterfit money.Yes,I'll wait 5 or 10 yrs.for you to make A profit.I'll buy it when it goes back to two dollars(probably soon).Even if it's true, why would you tell locals you don't blame them for not visiting the strip?You need all the business you can get.Even the Stratosphere appeals to the masses.Did you ever hear volume overcomes everything?Everything you've built for your upscale market doesn't give your customers anything that they don't have at home.Really nothing unique.What you say they will come to CC for, they already have at home.
Right. I'm gonna jump through byzantine traffic and parking hoops to go there, where I can maybe buy a glass of cabernet that will cost me what I'd pay for 3 bottles of decent stuff at Smith's.
Yeah, I'll drop everything and come by.
Not.
I'm all for innovation, culture and classy architecture, however, it appears the City Center will only cater to the ultra wealthy! How many of us can really afford to shop at Crystals? I do plan to see the place out of curiousity, but I don't expect to frequent Aria or the other properties on a regular basis. I do plan to see the Viva Elvis show though!
CityCenter is still a work in progress, and that's an understatement. First impressions go a long way, and so far I'm not impressed. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
City Center couldn't have happened at a worse time in Las Vegas History. Think what 8.5 dollars would do to the local economy. I just don't understand what City Center was suppose to do? Enlighten me please !!
Before everyone jumps on me.....that was $8.5 Billion Dollars
If my starry-eyed out of town friends come and want to visit sure I'll go. But otherwise I have no interest in patronizing any business that seems so in bed with Harry Reid. As a matter of fact the pall of the stench of his nearly rotting political corpse hangs over the place every time that commercial runs. Murren's words are like fingernails over a chalkboard.
Here is LA LA Land (Los Angeles) we have one of those amazingly inspirational buildings, Disney Hall, it is amazing to look at...but I along with many many others have never stepped inside its doors.....So, it's not just the buildings that draw people in, it's what is in those buildings, and how much they cost to go "see".
Very self delusional.
Locals visited - myself, coworkers, a couple others went to check out the new place. Seemed like a ghost town. Didn't spend a dime there as it wasn't too inviting with guards all around everywhere staring at you. Now wont be going back anytime soon - yep they opened this one right!
tvegas : I'm with you.. Nuff said...
City center will go down in history as the greatest financial corporate blunder since the Ford Edsel! It is so totally out of synch with the gaming focus of the Strip that only delusional want to be posers and faux nouvo rich will frequent the site. There is nothing inspirational about either the buildings, art ( For god sake yet another Cirque show!) or for that matter retail or eatting establishments that would cause the super rich to purposely fly 1/2 round the world to visit. It was NOT built for local use/enjoyment or access (please note the ingress/egress problems and the purposeful lack of self parking-forced valet-ok )Please, folks this was conceived by out of touch (NYC) corporate "masters of the universe" prior to the world wide economic meltdown with funny money and leveraged Dubai World's financial smoke and mirrors. After the hype and initial hoopla wears off, watch this experiment in urban "green" planning collapse under its own hubris in a cascade of lawsuits,bankrupcies and recriminations!
bbt-
I guess I should then stop going to any Las Vegas Sands property, since I should have no interest in patronizing any business that's so in bed with the Rethuglicans who have ruined this country and screwed up this state. We'd be idiots to vote out our most powerful Senator, and I don't think most Nevadans are that stupid.
environ & tvegas-
OMG, hell is freezing over! I agree with you!
http://nvprogressive.blogspot.com/2009/1...
Really, Murren is losing it on this. Why would he want to p*ss off locals and turn away so many customers by proclaiming he doesn't care if we never visit Aria? I guess he might as well hand us locals he doesn't care about over to Station & Boyd on a silver platter!
As y'all know, I actually like City Center and think it fills a much needed void for urban sophistication in Sin City... But what's the point of it if he doesn't want anyone from our city in his center?
Lefty: do a Rip Van Winkle and hibernate for a year. When you awake, Pinky will be a fading memory on his way to rocking chair on a dilapidated porch in scenic (not) Searchlight, Nevada.
mike-
I'd rather not. I like living in the real world, unlike the Republicans in this state who continue to offer no solutions to anything. I guess Suzy Lowdown & Lil' Tark Shark would have let City Center go belly up and let the Nevada unemployment rate skyrocket over 20%. When Reid wins next year, you can all go back into hibernation.
You think I'm gonna drive 5 hours from Phoenix and go over the Hoover Dam to see this "urban experience"??? I got nervous just with the rent-a-cop guards at Rampart Casino eyeing me. The security at CityCenter will take one look at me, in my U of A t-shirt and blue jeans, coming in my little rented Chevy Malibu from Avis, and escort my lower-middle-class a** right out the door, and it won't be because the guards are Rebel fans.
Sorry Jim, I don't do the Strip when I come to Vegas, when I am in Vegas I do as the locals do (maybe not Dollar Loan Center but I do go to the Wal-Mart on Eastern) and the locals don't waste their time on this nonsense.
I disagree with most of you. I visited City Center with some friends last night and it was fascinating. The architecture IS inspiring. I will faithfully bring visitors there to see what it has to offer. I can't believe the negativity of people. When Vegas tries to bring a little culture to the city (sure, with a lot of capitalism attached), everyone complains.
When you visit Manhattan... who could miss 5th Avenue? I don't buy much there, but it's nice to wander around. As for City Center, I paid my $10 viewing fee and $8 drink a the Mandarin Oriental lounge. That is a very nice place to view the strip. And sure, it costs less at Smiths... but is that the point? No. If it were, then I'd be staying at home all the time.
I will absolutely return. It's a neat place and I'm interested to see how it expands/evolves.
I'm not even a local, and have no plans to visit...I already know what I would be in for - very large complex, table minimums above what I want to pay, no good video poker to play, food that cost more than I want to spend. Eventually I will check it out, but I don't plan on dropping any cash there. That is in a good or a bad economy.
I drove by the construction site last year in the evening. I thought a spaceship had landed in middle of strip. The low glowing lights of construction site and the shapes the structure was nothing I ever saw that close up. It was a jaw dropping sight. It was hallucinogenic. I was inspired by the sight. I wish he had given the reasons before he started to build this. More would have understood it. I still think it is a bad business decision. It is great for people who get to enjoy it however and should thank the CEO for this.
If "Locals" are being counted on to solicite this project then someone is already in a lot of trouble.
Wow - finally positive comments from PeeGee and aroundtheworld. The negativity for this project astounds me. I can't wait to visit City Center. Every day I go online and look for pics of it - I can't get enough!
Walk into any 'local' establishent with a 'local' ID and put it up against someone with an 'out of state' ID and see who gets the attention and better service. Nuff said!
like i've said before--this will be the biggest financial disaster in las vegas history. 8.5 billion wasted on this idea of an "urban ceter" shows everyone how clueless this management team really is. What would inspire me as a shareholder is some accountability for running this company into the ground. Nice tall pretty buildings don't pay the freaking bills. Im just glad i didn't own this stock when it was 90 bucks a couple years ago. Look up and down the strip with these out of touch management teams. obviously if he hasn't been to properties here, he hasn't been to the new competition of the indian casinos either---well i can tell ya--the rooms are great and priced right and they do a good job and they don't screw the players with 6/5 blackjack and charging $159 for a stinking cirque show (yet another one)!
This guy is definitely living in La-La land...
My husband & I went there on Sunday..First off, there was NO place to park, the attendant @ Aria self-parking directed us to the Mandarin parking and the attendant there said "no". When we did find parking (@ NY NY), we walked around and found it to be, hmmm, what is the word...unsatisfying.
MGM has geared this place to be for ONLY the "uber-rich", cutting out 90% of the population in Vegas for shopping & dining. One thing my husband noted (& I agree with), there is way too much wasted space. We took the Tram back to Monte Carlo after spending a whole 10 minutes @ City Center..
We won't be going back.
"I really wouldn't be upset if people that live here never visited Aria. I would be upset if people didn't try to wander around CityCenter and enjoy the environment."
LOL. And how do you make money from people wandering around enjoying the environment? Last I checked you make a lot more money from the guy sitting in front of the slot machine than the guy sitting on the park bench admiring an obscure piece of art.
This guy comes off as such a clueless idealist.
While I hope CC will be good for LV, it would be really bad if Murren's $8.5B gamble resluts to nothing. Worst part is he will probably walk off with large pile of cash, while shareholders will take a big hit.
It is said that "Houses have a way of outliving their owners." Steel and glass towers will see many uses as the world turns from today to tomorrow. We suffer now the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,"but in every storm, there is a silver lining"
Fractured phrases inspired by madness at the helm.
I'll visit...eventually. And I won't spend any money. I still haven't seen M. It's kinda like Disneyland. You know it's always gonna be there so why rush?
Thats a lot of money to "inspire".......
I've worked in office buildings that pretty much resemble City Center.
I don't get this so called architecture.
Hearst Castle has architecture, the houses designed/built by Richard Morris Hunt have architecture.
The Bellagio has architecture.
Sorry but these don't and I am not "inspired".
But what can you say about a CEO who does not check out his competition.
locals WILL go...like the apes in "2001" go to visit the monolith.
look, i just saw that mcdonald's...MCDONALD'S is not doing well anymore.
if $1.00 mcchickens can't bring people in...good luck to citycrater.
you've seen one bebe, gap, louis vuitton store...you've seen them all.
He actually said to a reporter that he has "no reason" to visit the Encore or the Palazzo? Well first, I suppose, this should come as no surprise as neither of those two properties is located within his lower GI, which is clearly where his head can be found most days. However, be that as it may, it proves unequivocally that he and the rest of his cohorts over there are simply out of touch. If Murren, a clearly RICH man, has no reason to visit other high end properties in Las Vegas then what in the blooming bloody blazes makes him think that anyone is going to go running to CityCenter?! To be inspired?! His ego is so extraordinary that I'm shocked, yes shocked, that he didn't comission a twenty foot bronze statue of himself titled "Murren Leading the Whores to Culture" to grace the entrance.
Perhaps this will help makes sense of his thinking.
The Duchess to Alice: I quite agree with you. And the moral of that is: Be what you would seem to be, or if you'd like it put more simply: Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.
Oh and while I'm annoyed - does it seem to anyone else that the papers and the executives of MGM Mirage are trying to sell us on this? Wouldn't it have been prudent to see what the response would have been before they spent all of that money? If CityCenter is so universe-shaping and is going to "inspire" all of us and millions of would-be tourists around the world are clamouring to stay there, then why is he having to defend it? Hmmm.
My wife and I are planning a trip to Vegas in March, I haven't been there since Sept. '08 because of my job situation. I will go to CC to look and as a chip collector I will get some chips and then leave. As a visitor I don't have time to waste looking at a pile of canoe's thinking about what it means or if it will inspire me. My time is to precious to be wasted there looking at a building I can drive to Chicago and look at.
Like was stated above,if he is already wanting the locals to come,you know they are desperate.
Vdoog: Hope you collect $10 chips-- Aria will not have any $1 chips!
What a joke:city center has architecture! It is UGLY.
I wonder if Jim Murren is being set up as the fall guy if this project fails. With all the "one man's vision" press it's likely that he will take all the blame when the axe falls in an attempt to placate the shareholders of MGM.
Snowelk: You're probably right, maybe I can get lucky and get a $5 chip. I was also hoping to cash out a .05 slip out of a slot machine. I hope I can find a slot machine thats under a $1.00.
Possible scenario:
In 6 months MGM realizes cc is in trouble. Crystals will be turned into casino, it still doesn't generate enough revenue. Then they will try to create casino space for all properties in cc, no improvement. One or more hotels in cc close down due to slow business, Mr.Murren gets booted, MGM stock tanks, multiple lawsuits being filed by shareholders......
I worked in Century City in Los Angeles for years and years.
The newer high rise office parks of Orange County and Downtown L.A. look just like Century City.
City Center looks like Century City, but crammed onto a small parcel of land.
City Center is soulless and uninviting, just like all those massive "urban centers" in California.
Why would someone who lives and works in Century City or its ilk, making enough money to afford to come and stay at Vdara or Aria, want to do that? It would be "just like another day at the office", except with craps tables.
I think City Center is going to bomb with affluent Los Angeles/Orange County tourists as well.
City Center was built for all of the overpaid State, county, and city employees.
Las Vegas does indeed have a downtown, the Fremont Street Experience. It is comparable of a downtown in other cities such as New York or San Francisco. The Freemont Street Experience is every bit a lively, happening and interesting downtown experience as with downtowns in other cities, despite what Jim Murren thinks. And this is from an out-of-towner who likes to visit Las Vegas.
Senators going to bat for private funding..lol, I almost forgot about that one. Geezus
BTW, for Vegas sake...I hope it succeeds
I am from out of state and I have just completed my PAID stays at both Vdara and Mandarin Oriental this past week as I wanted to try the level of experience at CityCenter.
Well folks, you are correct. CityCenter is NOT for everyone and that is why there are other hotels on the strip that specifically caters to different requirements.
Do not knock CityCenter for whatever your personal reasons are because it did provide thousands of jobs during construction and having had the opportunity to stay at both Vdara and Mandarin Oriental, I cannot emphasis enough the number of staff I talked to personally from support services in the restaurant all the way to management- they were very happy to be working and will do their best.
Stop brooding on the negative and look at the positive and be happy for all these folks that are now proud and working members of CityCenter. I have never met a more friendlier, appreciative and deserving staff in all my travels.
It is fine by me if your personal choice is not to visit or even acknowledge CityCenter. Again, it is not for everyone. But for the few that does acknowledge the presence, the contribution, the hard work and the future, I know it holds a promise for Las Vegas.
I use to stay at the Four Seasons at Mandalay Bay as well as Encore and Wynn. But now, the Mandarin Oriental is the only hotel for me in Las Vegas. For sure as you are reading my comments it is creating all these mental images for you but don't loose the perspective that architecture is one things and certainly as unique as CityCenter compared to others on the strip, but it is the PEOPLE and the staff that makes what CityCenter is today and for tomorrow. With all my heart, I share the joys and the smiling faces that have greeted me each and every moment of my stay at CityCenter.
Ramonmb makes a great point about the people at City Center. They were fantastic. I think that level of service distinguishes places like the M and City Center and makes me want to return to both when I have money to spend. It might not be enough to stay there, but some drinks here, a dinner there, a valet tip... it all adds up!
I live in Vegas and I visited this past weekend to check out what was open so far and I can't wait for the casino to open. I am not a huge gambler but I love to eat and people watch. I will be a regular for sure.
Two words come to mind Mr Murren -- flawed concept. People come to Las Vegas to escape their everyday lives, not to relive them. What a shame, MGM Mirage had a chance to create something special and exciting for Las Vegas. Instead they build an office complex. Where is the innovation, the creativity, the excitement, the interesting environment? I suppose CC will attract architecture students from around the world but that's about it.
I feel sorry for the shareholders of this dud.
ramonmb: Of course the people are going to be friendly for many reasons. The first reason is they are going for bigger tips, the second is if they are not friendly and smiling they will be fired, and third reason is they are catering to upty rich people who have the money to stay there for a week. If I did have the money I would stay at the Bellagio. The CC is for rich people that don't care what the buildings look like and as long as they are taken care of with friendly smiling faces there will be no problems.
Honestly, if City Center wants to attract locals, then let us know when Crystals has a Wal-Mart and a Dollar Loan Center on site.
You forgot Ross Dress For Less and more importantly - Dollar Tree!!!!
Ok, I'm not hear to slag this thing. With all good intentions, I hope this "helps" Las Vegas, but I'm really left wondering though. I agree with alot of the posts, Las Vegas is a lavish place to visit, but not to live. I agree, 90 percent of the people(Locals) don't have a pot to piss in, the other half are probably snowbirds that migrate here from the East Coast or Midwest. How the hell are locals suppose to pay for a $100 steak? This place was not designed for the people of Las Vegas, it was designed for anyone outside the confines of the bowl, to spend money. Also, I'm not impressed with a comment about bringing culture to a city. I'm sorry, you don't buy culture, your city developes culture and this is not the way to do it. What do we tell the rest of the country when we open a 8.5 billion funhouse to one of the highest un-employed cities in the country. This CEO is a quack and I'm sure they will eventually be counting their loses.
PEEGEE
People like Murren LOVE people like you!!!
($10 viewing fee??? WTF was that for???)
What scares me is that in about 5 years, some of the Indian casinos here in Arizona will try something stupid like CityCenter, and call it a "Las Vegas-style" development.
Det_Munch, we live in a capitalist society, yet your post seems to imply that people are best served by trying to ignore that fact. Honestly, so what if I spend money? Actually, it's in YOUR interest that I do so. I'm being a GOOD capitalist and doing my part for the economy. And 20% of my budget for the night went directly to locals, not just to the corporate arm of Murren.
The drink was 16 dollars + 2 dollar tip (a price on par with other places for the type of drink). I figure that view was worth 10 dollars. Add a few dollars for a valet tip too. The math works out and I'm not going quibble over who should be going to City Center. I liked it there. The architecture was neat and I'll bring people by in the future :-)
Besides all of that: It's success will help Vegas. So I'm rooting for it!
peegee76 - finally, I am not alone...
BobZ : If you love this City Center so much, why don't you buy a condo? they are reduced 30% I think you would make a killing!! you would have the whole place to yourself!! LOL!
"I've lived here for 11 years and I know people don't go to the Strip unless friends are in town but they will come to CityCenter," Murren said. "They will park, they'll wander around, they'll look at the art, they'll look at the architecture. I believe this firmly, that people will be inspired."
Are you kidding Mr Murren?
You executives have absolutely no touch of reality,and living in your vacuum proves that
75% of locals cant afford their homes,autos,utilities,misc debt!But you expect las vegans to come down to support city center?
You people just cannot grasp anything even remotely relative with what is going on,but you think we can afford the SPA,Crystals Retail District,299.00 nightly hotel rooms,13.95 burgers
The people that post here everyday about how they can afford it are pure bull$%*&^@.
peace out
adt
If you recall LV Sands is the former employer of none other than our OTHER Demorat House of Representatives official named Shelley Berkeley. I'm not rushing to drop a dime their either.
which should have read "drop a dime there either." Why do I do that....?
The drink was 16 dollars + 2 dollar tip
WHAT kind of drink was that???? One of the fru-fru things that are usually pink or mauve in color? I had a $16 drink at a casino a few months ago and it was Grey Goose with a splash of soda. I thought it was expensive but damn good nonetheless!!
If you want to spend you money, you can anyway you want to. If I had money, I'd be doing the same, but patience is a virtue so someday I will be able to piss away $20 on a casino drink again.
Environprotector:
If you hate this place so much perhaps you should buy the Riviera and turn it into a retro 50's dump you so dearly long for. Then possibly you would stop your constant complaining about anything that has changed in this city throughout the past 20 years.
I hope this place is a success. Any aspect of the tourism industry that brings in money to this city is a boon - be it into jobs/airport fees/cab fees/off property business. Thankfully there are those with the money and the vision to actually speak through actions - and not be affected by all the negativity of those with nothing better to do than complain.
I see all I want to of City Center when I drive to the airport, and in my opinion it is an eyesore. Not only is it cold in appearance, but blends in about as well as a couple dressed for a white-tie event at a NFL tailgate party.
What a waste of money they are spending placing ads on local tv. Idiots!!!
newman2 : Listen my friend, you have to understand that when I moved here in the late fifties, this town was still on the fringes of bankruptcy as the result of an overbuilding problem by recently opened properties such as Riv, Stardust, expanded Dunes, Royal Nevada, and Tropicana. The thing that rescued the situation was pure marketing strategies of Top shelf entertainment, affordable meals, rooms, etc. The value vacation offering is what brought in the tourists from the entire spectrum of social standing . This is what made Vegas unlike ANY other vacation destination in the world. The City Center project is grossly out of touch with ANY of the above mentioned. This place is going to fail . Am I happy about this ?, ABSOLUTELY NOT ! I wish for a giant success story, however you just can't put a square inside a circle. MGM missed the reality boat on this one..
Hey Sheckyvegas, how did you step inside and say "Hmm, a casino" if the casino does not open till the 16th? It is posters like you that really have no idea what you are talking about and will eat crow when City Center succeeds. Growing up in this valley I heard the critics say Mirage will never make it, they spent too much money. I heard Bellagio will never make it, they spent too much money. Vegas has continually quieted the critics and we will do it once again.
environprotector, you are absolutely right about the middle to late fifties on the Strip.
It was overbuilt and in a meaningful recession.
My Father was involved with the Desert Spa across from the Stardust and it was a tough economy, plus a rugged, new regulatory environment.
At that time there was not enough money, people or confidence to even build rooms. That would have had to come later.
City Center will succeed but I wonder at what cost to other casinos?
Yeah locals will flock to their ploppy blackjack tables just like they do at their other properties. I am sure MGM is ready to go with their 6/5 payouts, lousy rules, and continous shufflers. Hey MGM, how about spread a fair BJ game and get the place filled up with locals...
Most Locals might go at least 1x. But the "club heads". You know the locals out here that just cant get enough of the strip, will be there like they always are. They will be there to celebrate some celebraty dutchbags birthday for $40 a person at the door plus the $15 drinks to try and get laid. They will spend their weekly $500 and go home empty handed.
Well I can attest they are comping to a pretty low level to get some visitors, as my sorry low rolling arse is being invited.
I wanted to throw up a pic of Citycenter on my laptop background as I'm heading out in a little over 24 hrs, but honestly couldn't find a decent pic that wasn't computer generated.
I'm excited about checking it out for myself, but that kind of struck me. After dozens of stays at Encore, Palazzo, Bellagio over the past couple years, it'll be interesting to see how this place compares.
My only regret is my usual wingman can't make it. His wife Elin is pretty pissed off about something I guess.
As a visitor to Las Vegas, I haven't as yet had the opportunity to see CityCenter. Of course, I experienced each building stage during my visits to the city, but I cannot wait to enter CC; I wish the greatest success to MGM Mirage!
As for me, I'm not an upper echelon person... that is, I cannot afford what CityCenter has to offer (but I will yet visit the site when I visit Las Vegas). My hope is that other casino owners, like Boyd Gaming, would study the economic, social and demographic environment of today to plan and implement future casino building. Right now, Boyd has a terrific opportunity to 'scale back' the plans of Echelon Place and build a middle class gaming environment that could be remindful of 'old' Vegas. The price of Echelon Place could be cut in half if a 'less than upper-class' gaming resort were built.
I love Vegas. But my itenerary in Vegas has been drastically modified due to the concentration of 'up-scaleness'. For those of us who can afford CityCenter... I wish you and yours the best. But please, we middle-class gamers need places to go too! Good luck to you CC... but someone please give us an environment that we 'normal' folk can afford (like the old Stardust).
Lets face it CityCenter was not built for the locals it was built for the tourist.
It was built for the rich tourist, not the middle class tourist.
Well said,Busciut. Myself included are middle income. Though I don't gamble. I miss mid priced places that aren't dumps. The Riv is getting to be a dump,but it's located in a descent spot.I read somewhere in the comments of another article that new Strip hotels almost have to be upscale. This is to cover the high cost of real estate on the Strip,and the cost of overhead. So,no new mid-priced places wil probably be built anytime soon. Though,everytime I visit LAS,I wonder to myself 'are they really enough high-end gamblers and people in general to support these places???'
uh...no they won't
Who selected the name "City Center"? That does not sound like a posh resort area.
Lets have a contest to rename the 'City Center'.
Winning name gets a free ride on the monorail.
are you kidding me.....you will never win money at that place....and I have to say it does not look good .....they should built that fake casino on oceans 13 more poepl would of should up have the whole cast their call it oceans XXX
hmmm...your (MGM Mirage) stock has gone from a peak of around $80+ to less than $5, (great work there), and now, you're going to build your future on getting locals to come to CC, from a city with 20% unemployment to erase the 8.5 billion dollar construction cost? Vegas is in such great hands with frickin' brain surgeons like Murren, eh?
You think the traffic was bad at the Katrina evacuation, with all of the Uhauls and pickups trying to leaving town at the same time? Wait another year of all of us construction types being asked to either (1)work for peanuts at a service job (Hello! Welcome to Walmart! Can you feed my kids this week, since I can't?) or (2) picking up our families and leaving this God-forsaken, no water in the future, no chance of paying off my mortgage here, waste of space called Las Vegas! The only jobs coming online lately were the 215 jobs, but even the County Commission could not help themselves but screw it up to. I bet all of you near 215 between Decatur and Tenaya are really loving their (the County Commission's) due diligence, eh? At least with so many people out of work, the traffic is not nearly as bad as it could be, eh?
BTW, MGM Mirage, this is when you will see me at CC or any of your other decorated toilets.
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!!
CC is beautiful and I want it to be very successful. In fact, for the sake of the economy here I hope it does really well.
However, Mr. Murren is in some sort of serious fantasy land if thinks locals will dine, shop, or gamble at CC.
I took my mom to Mandalay (owned by MGM) on a Sat. night a few weeks back. There's a bar right by the sports book. My mom had a Bloody Mary and I had a Bud. $16.50 plus tip for those two drinks. Bartender had attitude also. Give me a break. If Mr. Murren thinks locals are going to spend money at CC with that type of price gouging going on he needs to put his crack pipe away.
Locals will not tolerate rip off prices. If MGM wants to continue feeding off of the hordes Asians and Europeans who seem perfectly willing to get ripped off, so be it.
Locals will continue to take their biz off the strip until these stupid, greedy, corporate hotel operations get a clue on how to attract locals.
For Mr. Murren to think locals will somehow just magically want to go CC and drop $$$ shows his complete lack of reality and connection to the Las Vegas locals market.
Don't get thirsty on The Strip
I'm a local and I visited CityCenter last weekend. My friends from out of town were excited to see it and so was I. We all thought it was cool and can't wait to visit Aria when it opens later this month.
Well sure some locals will visit, eventually the 10,000 or so who will lose their jobs as the result of this corporate folly will be outside to beg! Good luck with that! And have a happy holiday along with the former Sun workers and the Binions workers and the 25,000 children under the age of 5 who starve to death in the world each and every day!
As I've written before, CC appears have been built ONLY to attract the wealthy clientele or perhaps the businessmen/businesswomen who are on an expense account or here for a convention. The "average" tourist might visit, but they cannot afford to stay or play there. I prefer the local casinos that offer free slot play, BOGO's, contests, etc. and $5 or less BJ tables. I know I will likely lose my money, but at least I will have fun and it will last much longer. The Sante Fe Station has a new table game that features a combination of BJ and poker which is really fun and at times quite profitable.
CityCenter was ready just in time. Every christmas will make it look decorative and fabulous. A christmas place to be with friends. Continental class.
Just go to the Forum shops at Caesar's, lots of fancy stores but nobody walking around with shopping bags. This guy Murren needs a reality check.
CityCenter should become the repository of Obama's Nobel Peace Momento. Making it an altar to his affirmative action non-achievements would create a tremendous magnet for tourists from the epicenters of his constituency. Every weekend in Las Vegas would then be like NBA weekend. This would be tremendous for local criminal lawyers and bail bonds firms.
Maybe Murren actually means (although it didn't come across in so many words) that where normal residents of LV never (except when friends/ family are in town) venture to the strip, CC will be the one place they would be more likely to visit over any other joint... And I believe hes right... You don't have to be rich to visit, its not Wynn, MO, etc... You could go play $50 and leave, or go and have dinner at just about the same price you would at MGM, Mirage, or even some restaurants in Bellagio... How about the nightclubs there? Or just people watching rather than sitting on your porch on your day off... I believe thats what he was referring to even though it didn't come out 100% that way...
BTW - I am 24, own my own home & car, am not in financial crisis, and I venture to strip for dinner, entertainment, and occasionally shopping so don't think its only for rich people...
"Every weekend in Las Vegas would then be like NBA weekend. This would be tremendous for local criminal lawyers and bail bonds firms"
Ha! That's all you need....I think people like Murren are so isolated in thier Ivory towers , they have no idea what's going on in 'the real world'. I mean,does this guy even drive himself to work,let alone park his Maybach in 'the boonies ' and hoof it up to the executive offices?Let alone actually buy something in one of his properties and see how expensive , say 2 drinks at the bar are. But,when you make 7 digits a year,it's all relative.
What I cannot understand,is how,as a CEO , you can spend $8 Billion and never see what you are competing against? How do you know what works and what doesn't?
Wow, amazing how many CEO's we have posting here, they all seem to think they can run MGM Mirage better....I agree that Murren is a little detached from the normal world...shoot he is rich, he can be detached,also the life span of a CEO is about 3-4 years...so when his job is open, all theses want to be CEO's should apply. Shoot if you get the job, you can make the bigest blunder ever and destroy the CC....
Det_Munch, if you must know, it Hendrick's (a Scottish Gin) and Tonic with a cucumber. Nothing too fru-fru for me ;-).
On a different note, one thing I liked about CC was that the people were genuinely happy to be working there (or maybe just happy to have a job period!). That made me feel better to be there.
Check out my blog:
http://jimmyhoofa-lv.blogspot.com/