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StumbleNot in my back yard, say foes of planned solar plants
Residents of Primm, Amargosa Valley areas see threat to lifestyle
Monday, Aug. 24, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Amargosa Valley
Sun Coverage
Sun Archives
- The cost of building a solar powered economy (8-16-2009)
- Negotiations under way for more solar energy in Eldorado Valley (8-16-2009)
- Public meeting held on proposed Primm solar plant (8-13-2009)
- BLM seeks comment on proposed solar plants near Primm (8-10-2009)
- Federal energy plan approved, but criticism of delays lingers (7-26-2009)
- A composite bill friendly to solar expected today (4-29-2009)
- Training for green jobs in plans for stimulus money (3-22-2009)
- Nevada lagging in the race to a green future (2-8-2009)
Beyond the Sun
If renewable energy is the industry of the future, people who live and play near proposed plants wish the future were happening a little farther away.
The Bureau of Land Management will hold a public hearing tonight in Las Vegas to define the issues surrounding a proposed solarthermal power plant on a dusty swath of land in Amargosa Valley just north of Death Valley. It’s the final of four meetings across the state to gather information on what the wildlife biologists and surveyors need to look for when evaluating the impacts the project could have.
Because the project is one of the first two Nevada solar plants to begin the environmental review process for leases of BLM land, their progress is being closely watched by solar energy competitors, trade unions and industry insiders as well as those who live near other proposed solar installations.
The other project, a photovoltaic array, is planned for BLM land near Primm.
Solar energy has been heralded as the new ‘it’ industry in Nevada, capable of curbing the carbon footprint and boosting the economy, among other things. With Nevada’s congressional delegation pulling strings and pushing legislation to kick the review process into high gear, the first project proposals are now seeing the light of day.
There’s just one problem: the neighbors.
Both projects face strong opposition from the people who live and play near the proposed plants. Hundreds of Nevadans and a few Californians have filled meeting halls and auditoriums across the state to raise concerns about habitat destruction, threat of toxic fire, water use and loss of recreation opportunities.
The third-party contractor hired by BLM to complete environmental impact statements on the projects must address significant concerns in its reports. The public can then comment on the environmental report before the BLM makes a decision on whether to grant the solar companies a lease of its land.
It’s easy to cite the benefits of the projects.
The planned solar photovoltaic array in Primm, for instance, would generate 267 megawatts. Building it would put hundreds of construction workers, welders and electrician back on the job.
But the proposed site is near historical migration routes for endangered species including the bighorn sheep and desert tortoises. And it’s at the foot of a wash that will have to be diverted around the site during heavy storms, disturbing more land.
Residents on both sides of the border worry that with plans for an airport at Ivanpah, a high-speed rail system, the California port of entry relocated from near Barstow and the solar array, they’ll be squeezed out of their rural lifestyle at a time when they can no longer afford to sell their land and leave.
The proposed array would also bisect a popular off highway vehicle raceway, shutting hundreds of buggy and dirt bike enthusiasts out of the trails and abandoned power line maintenance roads they’ve ridden for decades. The large races support Primm’s casinos, gas stations, outlet mall and restaurants.
Off-roaders say they understand the need for green jobs and energy but want a place to drive. They’ve been continually pushed out of one area or another by changing BLM priorities.
“I’d rather go without work than work for you,” Lucas Hand, a tradesman and off-road rider from Las Vegas, told the solar array developers at an Aug. 13 BLM hearing. “We’ve lost land constantly due to development. You’re taking away land people are already using and hurting the businesses that cater to the OHV (off-highway vehicle) community. We need this, but not on land that’s open to the public.”
The Amargosa Valley plant’s biggest impact would be felt a bit closer to home: It’s in the middle of town.
Amargosans welcome solar power development in the valley — it would create jobs that might keep the young people in town — but they don’t want 4,350 acres of parabolic mirrors across the back yard fence.
Things are different here, they say. People move here and stay here for the slower pace, to enjoy the simple things like a cup of coffee while watching the sun rise over the mountains. Their community’s only church, library, park, school, chamber of commerce and senior center are within a quarter-mile of the proposed plant, which would sit on Amargosa Valley’s main drag, Amargosa Farm Road.
Oh the irony, they say, of a sunrise blocked by a solar plant.
Other concerns are less about lifestyle and more about life. The volunteer fire department worries it wouldn’t have the equipment or manpower to handle the types of accidents possible at a solarthermal plant. Valley parents and teachers don’t want an industrial plant that uses toxic chemicals next to the elementary school.
The hikers, biologists and rangers who frequent Death Valley worry that the 4,000 acre-feet of water the plant’s German developer, Solar Millennium, wants to pull from the ground each year to help cool the system will drain the park’s life-sustaining springs.
Residents complain that under the BLM’s review process, people have fewer rights than pupfish.
“We feel like we’re in the way,” said Amargosa Valley resident Patricia Corrigan, who lives across the street from the proposed plant site. “You could have had your pick of the land anywhere else and you picked a place in the middle of town ... It’s insulting.”
Solar energy insiders are watching all of this with interest. Hearings for the two solar power plants can show developers what to expect from the BLM and locals as they bring their projects forward.
While dozens more solar projects near Primm and Amargosa Valley are in the works, they have yet to make it out of the application stage and into scoping and environmental review.
BLM Renewable Energy Project Manager Gregory Helseth said the projects will set precedents for developments — that’s why the BLM wants to get it right the first time. And some energy developers want to assess what they’re up against before taking the plunge.
These two were first to enter scoping, not because they were potentially controversial and would make good examples for others, but because the developers finished all the paperwork first, Helseth said.
And now they may set the pattern of what’s to come.
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I think sacrifices have to be made to accommodate our changing world. Sorry turtles... WE need to generate more power to LV so the casions can run!
How many men and maritime animals the Oilmadness costs their live, nobody asks that question?
Look at these pictures and remember them the next time you're at the pump!
http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/_/images11/in...
http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/_/images11/us...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...
You worry about the desert tortoise and mojave ground squirrel which will have 95% of desert remaining after all the energy is supplied by solar thermal power plants in the south west "
Sorry but it is only a matter of time until the broad public understands thatconcentrated solar thermal power plants and a high voltage dc transmission grid are the gentlest and in the long run cheapes way to provide our sociey with clean energy !!!
The ridiculously high cost of nuclear power
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/07/1...
To date, parabolic trough technology provides the best performance and lowest cost of all types of solar power plants.
"
Since the first 14 MW trough plant was installed in California in the early 1980s, generating costs have dropped from 45 cents/kWh (in 2005 dollars) to 9--12 cents/kWh (competitive with peak power). Costs are expected to drop to 4--7 cents/kWh by 2020.
http://www.nrel.gov/csp/pdfs/american_en...
Change this planet and unleash the Solar Millennium!!!
"Too often, young people go off to university and they don't come back to this community," Dewitt said, adding that aside from the dairy, there wasn't a lot of opportunity for young people in Amargosa Valley. The project, he maintained, could give them a reason to come back home.
Yes and they died in IRAQ for Oil ... the world is crazy !!!
Be patriotic and protect your kids !!!
Get off the Oil !
"Get off the Oil !"
Building solar has absolutely no impact on "getting off the oil".
Solar is expensive.
Solar destroys pristine wildlife areas.
It becomes even more expensive the further out one has to build tramission lines.
Solar is not a 24/7 reliable source of energy which means we have to build duplicate reliable sources of energy (coal, natural gas and nuclear) along side solar and windmill power plants.
I love it. Environmentalist fighting solar plants. They want energy to just come from a plug. These same people think food comes from the grocery store.
There are millions of acres of desert out there! Why do they need to put it in this specific location? Bring it to Boulder City. They have no problem hosting these things!
"I think sacrifices have to be made to accommodate our changing world. Sorry turtles... WE need to generate more power to LV so the casions can run!"
The solar millennium facility will be right across the road from the school. They are using a lot of flamable materials. If they explode, are you going to say, "I think those people need to sacrifice their children for our casinos!"
Jack A$$es from Las Vegas...
"Change this planet and unleash the Solar Millennium!!!"
Unleash those high power bills. Build those powerlines that release SF6 gases which speed up climate change! Put toxic, flammable chemicals right next to a school. Spill toxic chemicals into the aquifer! Listen to everything Harry Reid tells you without thinking about it! If the democrats say jump off a bridge, well....
All so this guy can have an extra flat screen TV and feel like an enviro!
"However nothing is said about the vast arrays of transmission pylons and overhead lives that feed the power to the cities, from fossil fueled plants that spew out their toxic emissions, and fed by mile long freight cars of coal every hour of the day. NO, these things are accepted by the lamebrainers, who just wont accept anything that is different."
You live in Europe. Go screw up your own country. There are no coal cars that would be involved with either of these proposals. What a stupidcomment. People complain about powerlines all the time. It's not an issue of what source of energy the powerlines are transporting, it'sw here they would go. You are just too foolish to understand that these areas are new areas and have very little development. One of them is one of the last important desert tortoise areas left. Do you even care about endangered wildlife? Why don't you preach your lame green enrgy dogma to people in your country. And get some damn solar panels and put them on your roof. Don't tell us what to do!
And coal is really good for the planet, kids. We dig it up and leave the raped soil to run into rivers and kill everything there. Then we burn it up and it heats up our planet so we can have video games and cold beer.
Solar is really dumb, jim. Let's do nukes. I'll watch the pile of spent fuel tonight. And you can watch tomorrow. And in two-hundred thousand years, it'll be safe again so no terrorist will be able to make dirty bombs out of it and waste some of our civilization because they don't like our wasteful destructive self-consumed attitude towards my planet.
Ughhh, Nextlight is all photovoltaic panels. 45 miles up the road is Las Vegas with hardly any solar panels on the roof. Same desert, same sun. Why kill a bunch of desert tortoise when you don't have to?
Are we learning yet???
I can't believe how ignorant the world still is. Solar and wind are not going to save us or the economy. I have been going to many of these scoping meetings and reading the development plans of these projects: Solar Millennium's own report on Andasol 1-3 in Spain, large solar thermal parabolic trough plants, state that they have been operating at 15% capacity. Solar Millennium's Amargosa Valley project will be a copy of these plants, and the nameplate capacity is said to be 484 megawatts (MW). Now that is the maximum theoretical capacity if there was no night, no clouds, no freezes. In the real world the solar thermal plants operate at only 15%-- that's a little over 72 MW! And they need 4,000 acres of land scraped up to produce this piddly amount!
A typical baseload coal power plant produces 1,000 MW at 70-90% capacity, on a couple hundred acres of land.
I'm not saying I am for coal, I'm just saying we are not going to replace this with solar or wind. Get real folks!
In addition, the cost of coal is around 2 cents per kilowatt-hour. Solar thermal is still up at 12 cents. Solar Millennium's Amargosa Valley plant will be using experimental heat storage technology which they admit is very expensive-- I don't think they will be bringing the price down any time soon.
That translates to higher electricity costs, which can only be handled two ways: in Spain their government puts in massive subsidies to hold up these solar thermal plants (which is not working); or the cost will be passed onto the ratepayers. Hmm, I wonder what our future is?
Let's hear it for Nye County!!!
Solar is a fat drop in the bucket!
But when the alternative is our coal past, we absolutely need to rethink our huge demand!
Don't you think?
Free, everywhere and not worthless; that's the extent of solar's claim to fame. Let's work with it. Reducing the size of the coal plant means changing thermostats to 60 in winter (sweater time, kids!), 82 in summer, using our heads, using solar water heating and air heating and passive solar heating and natural lighting all we can.
I left my thermostat at 45 all winter and found it comfortable. It was usually around fifty five or sixty most of the time. A solar air heater would have added significant comfort for almost nothing. We built 'em sixty years ago; insulate a black box w/glazing facing south stick a fan on it w/ a snap disk and shazam solar air heater. But I'm young in my early seventies and can accomodate a little variety. When you get older, it's different.
Don't build houses with leaky ducts to the outside!!!
Lower the energy bar with common sense. Inform citizens of actual costs of things like wars, bailouts, policies in health, retirement, insurance. Transparency gets to feel a little comfortable after dealing so many years with a Cheney type of opacity.
Don't stick poor ol' solar so high on your pedestal that you end up humiliating him. It's never going to satisfy an unending growth pattern. It'll never light vegas at midnight like four-corners. But it makes my shower cheap, my home cozy and it'll make enough juice falling on my garage to run the fan and the fridge, computer and tube. That means a smaller demand and a smaller power plant to answer it.
If there's something wrong here, it's that they don't know how to run a power plant just at night. It's not solar's fault that fossil can't start and stop efficiently!
Put it on your roof, airweare...no one would have a problem with that.
Our energy futures aren't a question of either x or y; it's gonna be a blend. It's not an or; it's an and.
Bashing solar because she's a slut or a fair-weather friend does nothing to further our discussion. We absolutely need clean energy sources. We save 20% of our power production with free delivery. It's not explosive like methane or propane. Sure, it's kinda hard to store efficiently. But when you insulate, tighten up and reduce load, even w/5000 degree days climate, we can find most of our heat load from the sun, assuming a ramble toward ambient after sundown in the winter. Blankets at bedtime!
There's more of a rhythm to the life of someone doing a solar lifestyle than the person oblivious to the bright ball that rises north of east in the summer and way south of east when it's cold.
Geezers like me enjoy pointing out to the spry youth how a little common sense and appreciation of what they got will take them far. Look at me; I'm in a rocker!
"The planned solar photovoltaic array in Primm, for instance, would generate 267 megawatts. "
That's about 12% of the generating capacity of the Byron nuclear plant near where I live. The Hoover Dam produces over 2,000MW also, rather small compared to the Grand Coulee Dam, which produces 7,000 MW. 267 megawatts is a pretty small amount. Really a toy amount compared to a real generation station,.
As I understand, the Solar Millennium Project is not located near any schools and the technology they will use is not considered dangerous by any stretch of the imagination. Leave it up to some to speak against a project based on false arguments because they don't want to see these projects get built. The NextLight Project is not using much water and will be able to provide energy to 150,000 homes, according to their information.
airweare-
THANK YOU! Renewable energy is just part of the solution. We also need to rethink our insatiable energy addiction. We need to rethink our urban planning. We need to rethink our transportation. There is no single "magic bullet" that will solve the climate crisis. But with the right combination of changes we must make (and better to do it sooner than later!), we can make it.
Move them to Boulder City. They are very Solar friendly.
"As I understand, the Solar Millennium Project is not located near any schools and the technology they will use is not considered dangerous by any stretch of the imagination. Leave it up to some to speak against a project based on false arguments because they don't want to see these projects get built. The NextLight Project is not using much water and will be able to provide energy to 150,000 homes, according to their information."
The Amargosa Elementary School is within a half mile of the facility. Don't be a fool -look at the map. As for these being safe, they are not:http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/BTV99/hartley/0303.shtml
We all know that Nextlight will not be a water issue. It is an access issue and it has endangered wildlife on the site. The tortoise issue is what will probably kill that bad idea.
Onion, did you even do any research before you commented? Sure doesn't look that way.
Here is a local report on the meeting:
http://www.basinandrangewatch.org/AV-Sol...
Come on people,, get a grip!. Everyone wants the cheap energy, wants to "protect" the environment, but just don't do it near me..
Forget it,, let's just drill some oil wells there instead!!
"That's about 12% of the generating capacity of the Byron nuclear plant near where I live. The Hoover Dam produces over 2,000MW also, rather small compared to the Grand Coulee Dam, which produces 7,000 MW. 267 megawatts is a pretty small amount. Really a toy amount compared to a real generation station,."
Good point but you are still missing the even bigger difference.
Coal, natural gas and nuclear provides energy at nearly 24/7 levels.
So when a coal plant is rated at 1,000 megawatts that is 1,000 megawatts at nearly 24/7.
When a solar plant is rated at 1,000 megawatts (not sure if one exist that big) it is only produce during the summer in Nevada at around 60% of the day and during the winter far less.
It is comparing apples to peanuts.
Move the project to White Pine County. We would love to have any legitimate business that would add to our small tax base.
This is good stuff. The eco-nuts battling the enviro-nuts for energy.
Here is a better solution.
Screw the desert tortoise, there are quite a few that get euthanized by the Gov't just south of Las Vegas. Do you get that, we have so many in "protected areas" that they euthanize them. I know I have been there and I have seen it.
Big Horn Sheep have four legs and can get around pretty good on their own.
I say let's get on it with solar and wind. Using these two forms of energy to bolster our reserves is a great idea.
Here is the deal; use solar to provide peak day energy and coal can be used to provide nighttime energy. Using this simple relationship lowers coal use and expands our energy independence.
The stupid reasoning says this is a jobs program, the smart reasoning says this is an independence program.
That's too much of a water drain. It's not at all sustainable with the tiny replenishment we get. They'll sink all their dough into a production facility and then suck sand into their pumps.
That'd be pretty unfortunate. Good thing they looked first at how much water there is and how much they need and recalled how fast it comes back in.
Solar panels on the house are fast becoming "status symbols of the rich" after years of being banned as "eyesores" by those same rich people. As the cost comes down, maybe solar will become standard on new house construction. Now, the cost doesn't work, unless your energy bill is 500+ per month. (kind of like paying 10000 extra for a hybrid car that needs a new $8,000 battery in 5 years so you can save a few hundred a year on fuel). If I ever build a new house, I'll have solar, assuming it adds maybe 10k or so to the cost.
"use solar to provide peak day energy and coal can be used to provide nighttime energy"
Solar is expensive. I guess one can use it supplement peak day energy.
But one will still have to have duplicate peak capacity when the sun does not shine.
That is doubling the capital cost which is already much higher for solar plants.
Will I have to move my trailer?
Instead of wadding solar up into the same old model of power plant here and end use over there, (the genius of the rockster shines through!) why the senseless duplication?
But let's reconsider the human dynamic in consumption/conservation. Jonesy gets a solar water heater, air heater and electric package used for $16,000 and gets ABC Solar to take it off the old place and stick on his place.
He might have paid over 40 grand for a new system, gotten a big rebate and come out ahead, but, you know Jonesy. And he's not the kind to cotton to rebates or government interference.
So his systems work great. He checks the water temp 8 times a day, listens for the air heater to kick in on a cold sunny morning, lowers his fossil thermostat so his solar unit will have some room to do some good, adjusts his usage pattern to maximize solar gain, and in general focuses energy anew on energy! It's like OCD, but not quite so driven. Mostly just curious, careful and cheap!
What's so bad about transforming our consumer mentality to more of a steward relationship with the homeland? It's not a bad old planet. Best one around for miles.
One of the benefits of solar is this human element. Jonesy is on fire. It's all he talks about. It rubs off.
His house is way less of a demand on the available supply of power. When you need it most (summertime!), his little system and those like his are putting power into the grid, not drawing it.
20% of all the power we run from plant to end-use goes to the transmission lines. Another savings is the raw materials that go into the sun; we don't have to mine them, move them or clean up afterwards as in coal, gas and 200,000 years with nukies. It's all done for us, arrives daily to all destinations, etc... Solar energy avoids this senseless waste. That's the kind of thing you want to have distributed free. Lucky for us, that's how it comes!
The minor costs come as a challenge for us to be prudent stewards of what we have, free daily distribtion of a relatively safe energy form that can handle much of the load...AT THE SITE!!!
This old model of 'source here, demand there' fails to recognize the strength of solar applications - free disribution, load lowering potential up the wazoo, potential fires in the spirited community members, safe efficient practical uses of a free energy source, limited only by our appreciation of our world.
I'd bet Jonesy's kids are good at math, science and logic.
Here are the complaints against THESE two projects:
1. They take away land that is used by many people for recreation. Yes, off road vehicle use IS recreation. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean others don't enjoy it. Find a location that doesn't take away one of the few areas left to off road use.
2. The Armagosa project is IN their town. With a zillion acres of empty land they chose that spot? What the hell are they thinking? Why right there and not a few miles away?
3. Tortises. Any project anywhere is going to disturb wildlife. You can't stop everything just because some animals will be disrupted. (STOP yelling--For several years I cared for rescued tortises so I am not a "turtle hater".) Do the best you can to save as many as you can, then move forward.
Turn off all the power generated by fossil fuels. Lets see how long they complain about being in the dark.
if nevada was smart, they should continue to build solar power plants because of their 300+ days of sunshine. they can trade that cheap power to the midwest in exchange for some cheap water out of the great lakes. everyone wins.
What better place to have solar...with all the sunshine in nevada. a single wind mill would also offset a small town...just one. This is a no brainer.
Don't you just hate morons, I'm a environmental consultant, just how does creating shade hurt the desert tortoise?
Solar power is where we can have our cake and eat it too, Nevada is the Saudi Arabia of Solar Power. Right now a 100 square mile (10 mile x 10 mile) patch of desert should supply the electric power needs of the entire country.
A small price to pay to get our from under the thumb of the arabs and big oil.
sgrriggs, in my opinion, has scored big time with his post.
Yes, it's time to do something about our dependence on foreign oil. We spend $600 - $700 billion each year on foreign oil. That's money leaving the country with most of it not coming back in any form, shape or fashion.
It's time to walk away from our addiction to oil. Even if the solar projects in Nevada supply only a small part of the energy that we use, its a start. We're running an "energy marathon" and its time we started taking those first important steps toward the finish line...
We're facing major problems (more than we currently face...) down the road when it comes to energy. One has to be a complete idiot not to see that....
It's time to be proactive instead of reactive, as we normally are on most things....
Let's start using the one great resource that we have in the Silver State......the sun!
I see that several of the right-wingers on this board continue to belong to the "no progress is good" club. We had 8 long years of "no progress" under the mentally challenged man from Texas.....I guess they didn't get enough of his clueless and inept policies....go figure!
Okay sgrriggs, whatcha got?
What country? The city state of Singapore? That'd mean a pretty long cord...lotsa curious, teething baby sharks between San Fran and Singapore. I figure a 42% loss just to the wire; that's not counting the sharks.
The problem is that solar is not the kind of thing that fits into the 'plant here, demand there' model.
Solar's appeal lies in its universality and free delivery system that means we get it everywhere and can use it right there and not have to run it in from way away. It's there already.
Transmission losses are at least 20%; in other words, just sending juice through the wire means an additional pile of waste throughout mining, transport, exploration, combustion, etc. Solar avoids this expense.
Solar works at low temps and high efficiencies in water heating and air heating. This reduces the load required of any backup fossil system to a minimum. It's a very simple and inexpensive application of a free, clean abundant energy source. Not using it now when we need it is pretty fuqin Republican of us.
Instead of the common man grabbin' rays and lowerin the utility bill, we got the power company grabbin the rays and chargin the common man.
It's nuts.
If we had a solar program to do what we ought to do and get serious about this energy thing, codes would change a bit. Schools would have Skyminer Diners. Energy conservation would become a religion again. Blower door tests would accompany real estate transfer. You'd know what you were getting. Indoor air quality would improve. Energy auditors would make a good living. Science and math scores of my fellow americans would resume their rightful place in the world spectrum.
Obama the socialist and Harry Reid the coward think this is what's going to turn around the economy. This is the wave of the future just like green building is. Funny I don't see a lot of construction workers working these days.
Even though a half of .5% of people know anything about solar power.
Yes this is what's going to make us all overspend at the crooked casinos like we used to.
VegasInsider....
Your statement that:
"Obama the socialist and Harry Reid the coward think this is what's going to turn around the economy" is an interesting statement.
I have never heard or read where Obama or Reid said any such thing. I did hear both men say that the use of solar will help the economy.....but to turn the economy around all by itself? Please....
Get off that right-wing Kool-aid immediately and find another program other than FOX NEWS to get your daily news fix from....
VegasInsider,
Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation.
Airweare,
Whoa there, our wise and senescent friend! I always enjoy and appreciate your posts -including those today. But I absolutely must correct you on the issue of power transmission and distribution efficiency. We are not losing about 20% of the power we send through the system. The figures are far, far less. Please take a peek at the link I include at the bottom; the countries doing the best job are places like Luxembourg and Isreal. They're transmitting with losses only in the 1-3% range. Admittedly, they are small countries with shorter distances. But even here in the good ol' U.S. of A., we're only losing an average 6.39% of all power sent through all our grids. Though preferable, it is not at all necessary to produce power near where it will be consumed. We certainly don't do that now. Power loss figures will continue to come down. Though once we get past the hump of initial infrastructure costs, maintenance costs of solar power will be negligible anyway. Just the odd tortoise, here and there. ;-)
(Scroll down to bottom of list for more efficient countries)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_el...