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October 21, 2014

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Letter to the editor:

Focus on security, not talking points

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Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal said the Republicans should stop being the party of stupid. So far, they have not heeded his advice.

Instead of trying to find out who changed the talking points regarding Benghazi, they should be trying to find out why more security wasn’t provided when it was requested before the attack. Who made that decision? Why wasn’t the military sent to assist during the attack, and who made that decision?

The families of the dead don’t care about talking points, but they probably would appreciate understanding how decisions made and not made impacted their loved ones’ chances of survival. Politics trumps common sense and decency once again.

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  1. I agree with Michael's opinion regarding those issues that he believes the investigations should focus on up to a point. However, the Obama administration had an obligation to tell the American people and the families the truth about the immediate conditions leading to the attack and deaths. Nevertheless the Obama administration intentionally decided it was in its political interests to mislead everyone that a spontaneous demonstration brought on by an anti-Muslim video was the basis for the attack.This even after it knew that a terrorist attack was the real cause.
    Knowing what higher ups in the goverment intentionally misled everyone is a fact that Americans should know. All of us have the right to trust our goverment, and to remove those who undermine that trust by covering their asses by lying.\

    Jeff from Vegas tries to excuse the incompetence and intentional negligence of the State Department in failing to provide the required security at the Benghazi post by blaming it on the Ambassador, Chris Stevens. There is no limit to the extent most liberals will go to defend incompetence,lies and negligence when their interests are at stake. That is the case in the Benghazi fiasco, the IRS scandal,Fast and Furious,the AP overgrap and the Sebilius donation solicitationm for Obamacare. Lies, incompetence, negligence and law breaking are OK when liberals are engaged in it as Jeff from Vegas demonstrates in his post. What a lame and pitiful positions to take.

    We have a government which uses its position and power to mislead and intimidate Americans, and there are liberals who will stamd up and defend that. What a disgusting and pitiful point to which our society has arrived.

  2. Let's see. If Casler's assumption is correct, we need not know who robbed the bank, we only need to have greater security so it is less likely to occur again? Of course those responsible for not sending immediate aid should be identified and asked why. 4 Americans died because of their decision and it's imperative we know how they came to that decision. With the left, nothing is important when one of their fellow travelers fouls up. But let a Conservative screw-up and all hell breaks loose. Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander and we should all be concerned about screw-ups regardless of political affiliation. Republicrat or Dumbocrat - they must all be held to the same standard or folks just may become cynical. Oops, I guess it's too late.

  3. I suggest Michael read the column "The real Scandal of Benghazi" right here on the Sun's webpage.

    Another letter that really did not need to be printed, and the usual right wing parroted talking points regurgitated by the same right wing commentators on this web site. Yawwwwn.

  4. Well, Let's see.... a mention of the fact that changing memo's are not as important as understanding why our mission was still there, poorly unprotected, when other similar missions had been withdrawn and why no rescue mission was launched gets an attack by the right.

    Jeff from the left, attacks because some don't totally buy the explanation that Stevens refusing more security explains everything, including why a rescue mission wasn't launched and also why so much effort was made to blame everything on a 'video'.... that supposedly sparked a 'riot' that then turned into a 'coordinated' attack lasting 'several' hours that happened in 'two' parts on the anniversary of 9/11...of all days. All I can say is 'WOW!'

    It just goes to show that 'any' logical and fair
    questioning of the 'rights' position is a non starter with many and 'any' logical and fair
    questioning of the 'left's' position is a non starter with many others.

    And 'THAT' fact is why we may as well strike the words compromise and cooperation from the dictionary. How sad.

    Michael

  5. The President and his administration have 3 big puzzles to put together for the American people: Benghazi, Libya; IRS targeting conservative groups; and the DOJ and the AP national security leaks. The "talking points" is one piece of a puzzle. But, it's not really about puzzles. It's about the trust we Americans have in our leaders and their governance. Once that trust is lost they [the leaders and government] have done irretrievable damage. Someone has to be held accountable for the damage. We call him our President.
    Carmine D

  6. Future,

    I think it is beyond doubt now that the administration concocted a story about the video to downplay the real likelihood that if the truth were admitted, it would bring much unwanted negative attention just before an election. The State Department spokeswoman pretty much admitted that in an email expressing concerns about fallout from the talking points.

    It isn't that I don't think that matters but changing talking points did not lead to 4 murders. Maybe nothing the administration did or did not do led to those deaths. I just happen to believe finding out what was done before, during and after the attack, who made those decisions and why they were made is more important than who changed the memo.

    Let me also say this: Do you remember when Nancy Pelosi said we have to pass to ACA to find out what's in it. That's because to Pelosi, the 'political' goal of passing the ACA far outpaces the importance of making sure the legislation was good legislation. I dislike her for that and have a low opinion of her. When Republicans see 4 murders and put more effort into finding out who changed memo's after the fact than finding out what might have not been done that might have prevented the murders, it places 'political' considerations above other more important considerations.

    That's what Pelosi did and it 'stinks', everytime it is done, no matter who does it.

    Michael

  7. I wonder, how many people like Mr. Casler who lean right, have come to realize the GOP over reach is turning voters off? We had the Black Panther Party, Fast and Furious, ACORN, Birthers, FEMA re-education camps, death panels, communists elected to our Congress, and a host of others.

    The GOP with the help of Fox has been screaming scandals for years now, like tossing pasta against the wall, hoping something will stick. Their rabid frothing at the mouth reaction to imagined scandals caused them to impeach Bill Clinton. Will we see the same with Obama? Will they attempt to impeach him? If any scandal does have a genuine basis, the investigation of the AP is it, but that can't be directly attached to Obama, so it gets less noise from the right.

    The GOP will damage themselves and this great nation in their efforts to maligned a democratic president. They have a proven track record of doing so.

  8. "The GOP with the help of Fox has been screaming scandals for years now"

    And NOW Dems and media have joined the chorus.

    It's not just about "a" scandal and/or 3 scandals [which may result in more]. It's about a lack of trust in government and our leaders.

    Carmine D

  9. El_Lobo - "Right-wingers on this board aren't really interested in finding out what happened and why it happened. What they're interested in doing is bringing down the president. Pure and simple....."

    Ain't that the truth. It's as if there is a memo stating, "ignore the facts and insert paranoidal thoughts here."

  10. "There is another link to reality below where Carmine finally agrees that the Benghazi witch hunt has been wrong."

    Wrong. You're day dreaming again. Due in part to me living rent free in your mind.

    If ever a Washington, DC government scandal cried out for the appointment of an independent counsel, the current IRS scandal case does.

    Carmine D

  11. Freeman:

    If the "stand down order" was given to perpetuate the video myth for political reasons [election], it is morally reprehensible. One of the pieces in the Benghazi puzzle, still unknown, is who gave the stand down order.

    Carmine D

  12. The news accounts stated that President Obama at about 5 PM Washington DC time on 9-11-12 in a White House meeting gave the order to deploy all available resources to assist and rescue the Americans under siege in Benghazi, Libya. We also know that no military assets were ever sent there. It's unclear why for sure, except that we were told it was too late and there was no jet fuel for the F-16's in the Mediterranean area to get there. I have never, ever, known these to be excuses for Americans not trying.

    Carmine D

  13. Vernos,

    Many people realize that the Republicans have lost support and the trust of many Americans.... and for good reason. I just continue to point out that although the Democrats have the advantage today, they too do not deserve the trust of Americans.

    On their watch, deals were made that allowed many of those responsible in part for the financial meltdown to escape with little to no punishment. They recapitalized the banks with taxpayer and manufactured dollars and asked nothing from them in return. Too big to fail is still in play. Their signature health care reform, the ACA is very poorly written and was crafted by making deals with rich powerful interests, such as drug companies, insurance companies, and health care providers, which insures that it will not do what it promised.

    Now all these things and more and things like them and worse happened and happen under Republicans, but that's exactly my point. CONGRESS was at the center of everything I mentioned and everything that went before. Nearly everything former President Bush did had to be drafted into legislation, approved and implemented by CONGRESS. Same with President Obama. I ask you how satisfied are you with the outcome of what you see? And please don't regurgitate the crap that everything that is wrong is the fault of Republicans. They have been and are obstructionists for sure, but they are the cause of stuff not happening and are not the cause of the stuff that has been passed being of questionable value or with the rock of terrible implementation being tied to them.

    I am not a supporter of President Obama because I disagree with his overall philosophy. However, he doesn't concern me nearly as much as CONGRESS does. Both parties in Congress are in the vice grip of powerful interests with lobbyists and that is why, no matter who is President and who controls CONGRESS, the performance we see from them is nothing short of an absolute disaster.

    I consider who is President an order of magnitude less important than the fact that the way we fund candidates and elections in CONGRESS absolutely guarantees whoever we send to CONGRESS will not do what's best for the nation but instead what is best for the powerful interests that see to it that they are funded at election time. THAT IS NOT A REPUBLICAN PARTY ONLY PROBLEM.

    It's a lonely song I sing, but the song is true just the same.

    Michael

  14. "For an effective government we must be able to TRUST the Goverment

    Do you believe the government to do the right thing?"

    Future. Let me take your statement one step farther. The fiber that makes the I.R.S. work as an effective instrument of the government's revenue collection arm is voluntary compliance. If that fiber [voluntary compliance] disintegrates, and millions of taxpayers refuse to file/pay, there aren't enough government employees, money, time and jails to stop it.

    Hence, the need for an independent counsel to investigate the I.R.S. scandal.

    Carmine D

  15. Future,

    I lost my trust in my government when I realized that the branch that makes all the laws and sets tax policy is basically owned by powerful interests with lobbyists. Members of Congress cannot be elected or re-elected without the money and support provided by these interests, whose goal is to use the government to advantage themselves.

    Administrations have lied and covered up forever. Do I like it? No. Should it be investigated? Yes. Will anyone that matters be punished? No.

    My distrust did not start with President Obama and it will not end there. My distrust comes from Congress, not because they are D's or R's, not because they are evil, but instead because they are human beings and we place them in a situation where to keep their lucrative careers, they have to do what the powerful interests with lobbyists want. Until and unless that is remedied, I will NEVER trust my government again. I frankly don't see how many Americans can.

    Look around! Do you sense as I do that as each day passes, fewer and fewer Americans trust their government. Foolish Progressives think this is due to Republicans, Tea Partiers, Conservative. Foolish Conservatives think it is all due to Obama and other Progressives. NO! It's because Americans see the 'results' of the work of our government, and frankly, think it stinks, which it does.

    Michael

  16. Having experience, I can say unequivocally with 100 percent certainty, that IG investigations and reports do not happen in a vacuum. They are not one-sided. Agency management is brought into the process from start to finish and are constantly aware of and updated about the IG findings and goings on. On all levels from top to bottom of the organizational structure. It is absolutely absurd for Treasury and treasury officials to claim ignorance and worse say that they did not inform their higher ups of the events, circumstances and facts uncovered along the way. It is never the case that an IG would drop a bomb on any agency head with a report detailing facts and circumstances that it [the agency and management] were completely unaware of.

    Even if a "whistle blower" contacted the IG hot line with a tip for investigation/review, the first thing the IG does is to inform appropriate agency management of the matter before proceeding.

    Carmine D

  17. hombre - "Then after 4 unproductive years they RE-ELECTED that grinning boob." "He failed to improve economic conditions. All he did was give his acolytes a free phone and some food stamps."

    I rest my case about paranoidal delusions.

    In March of 2010 Russell King wrote:

    Dear Conservative Americans,

    The years have not been kind to you. I grew up in a profoundly Republican home, so I can remember when you wore a very different face than the one we see now. You've lost me and you've lost most of America. Because I believe having responsible choices is important to democracy, I'd like to give you some advice and an invitation.

    First, the invitation: Come back to us. Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a platform that isn't built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with colors, religions, cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking, health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.

    Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum have become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, they're tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me provide some examples -- by no means an exhaustive list -- of where the Right as gotten itself stuck in a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and hatred.

    If you're going to regain your stature as a party of rational, responsible people, you'll have to start by draining this swamp.

    http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2010/03/r...

  18. Victor,

    At one point, I would have agreed with you. As I studied more and more however, it became clear to me that Reid or Angle, as just one example, isn't going to make a difference that matters, at least to me. Angle was most likely unqualified to serve and if she'd won, would have been a poor Senator and also been forced to play the game of doing as powerful interests wanted if she was to get money and support for her re-election.

    Now let's look at Reid (not to single him out because he is just one of hundreds just like him).

    74 years old; 1st elected in 1987; Severed as majority and minority whip and now Senate Majority Leader;

    He always totally outpaces his competitors in raising money, from powerful interests with lobbyists. Known as the 'go to' guy for the Casino industry.

    Does this guy win, over and over again because he does such a great job. Congress' approval rating is less than 10 %. Does Reid's performance outshine that 10 % rating? No. Name recognition and access to all that money and support is the reason he's been there for over 30 years. And what 'must' Reid and every other member of Congress do to keep their lucrative 'career'? They 'must' play ball with the powerful interests with lobbyists that control the money. And he does, and so does every other member, whether their name might be Reid, Angle or anyone else. THAT'S THE GAME and it is totally corrupt.

    The problem I talk about and seek to have recognized is NEVER touched no matter who you and I vote for, in a primary or general election. No matter who we elect, the issue of public servants 'serving' in Congress for 30 plus years is NEVER brought up. The fact that one cannot be elected or re-elected without big money controlled by powerful interests with lobbyists is NEVER brought up. WHY? Because each and every member KNOWS that to bring any of that up means their CAREER is Congress is over.

    You and others can vote as you wish as can I. The difference, other than who we may vote for, is that I realize that no matter who I vote for and you vote for, we will not come within 10 miles of addressing the real problem with Congress, ... remember... the branch that makes all our laws and sets all tax policy.

    Michael

  19. Vidi,

    Since the country is divided about 50/50, I think you'd be hard pressed to claim any victories when polls show way less than 50 % of Americans view Congress favorably. 50 % should think highly of the Senate but not the House 50 % should think highly of the House but not the Senate. Most recent polls show less than 20 % approval. It's kind of hard to claim people love the Senate and hate the House when the overall approval rating is under 20 %.

    Michael

  20. Mitch McConnell, "I don't know what the facts are."

    David Gregory, "but that hasn't stopped you from accusing."

    Those two comments sums up the entire GOP/Tea Party attitude over the last six years, facts don't matter.

    If anyone knows about over reacting and overreach Newt Gingrich sure does. He and others are warning his party, but are they listening? I don't think so, because that information isn't coming from inside the bubble.

    I hope the GOP impeaches President Obama, it will expose the GOP/Tea Party for what it is, a car load of circus clowns.

  21. In all the discussion of the various current scandals du jour one point has been widely ignored. These issues are "scandals" primarily because the economy is slowly recovering, the unemployment rate is slowly coming down, the Dow and S&P have just hit all-time high levels, inflation (while present) isn't particularly high. All of this in spite of the best efforts of the Republican'ts to the contrary.

    The Republicant's have decided that We, the People, simply must NOT be allowed to reflect on ANY improvement in ANYTHING! To that end they MUST continue creating one Michal Rodent BS "crisis" after another and hyping each one at the tops of their voices.

  22. Security seems to be the last (as in no) concern of Obama and company. Think Border Security. Completely IGNORED when enforcement of EMPLOYERS OF ILLEGALS would work as well as a fence. Ditto for our troops. Seems it doesn't matter how many we kill, how many we maim, how many we send to battle zones where PTSD is rather normal when unexpected explosions occur repeatedly and you have no where to go. Security? Not in their vocabulary.

  23. "OMG, you are such a blatant liar! Do you get paid to post this drivel?

    1) Assets were sent to Benghazi and were at the compound DURING the second attack.

    2) No Jet Fuel in the Mediterranean? Do you actually believe that?"

    Here are the answers:

    I don't get paid to post here DO YOU? I didn't make this up and I am not a liar. Are YOU? These statements are testimony of Hicks before the House Oversight Committee recently. He was the number 2 State foreign officer on the ground on 9-11-12, until Amb Stevens was murdered. Hicks said he was told by Clinton's henchwoman not to speak to anyone about these events without a State Dept. lawyer present. So who do you think is lying and/or covering up?

    Hicks said, and I clearly posted: MILITARY assets. Not just assets.

    No ....I don't believe it. I made that clear in my post too.

    On the other questions, I responded to you off line.

    Carmine D

  24. "I say:

    Yes you are, daily."

    You say a lot of things. That doesn't make them true, despite your beliefs otherwise.

    I'm still living free in your mind.

    Carmine D

  25. Verbosity is your middle name.

    Carmine D

  26. Carmined: at 4:36 this a.m. you commented, among other things that " I didn't make this up and I am not a liar."

    Of course, if you posted the occasional traceable source for some of your more "interesting" comments, the doubt just might not come up.

  27. I'm prolific but pithy.

    Verbosity indicates lack of knowledge and facts. The more of the former, the less of the latter.

    I laugh when posters ask for sources. Do your homework and research.

    Do you need a source to put on your underwear?

    Carmine D

  28. faith...

    Carmine D

  29. Simply...

    My comment wasn't to you. It was to Jeff and Robert.

    ;-)

    Carmine D

  30. Simply...

    Your comment never came up on the board because you are not a trusted posted and requires another click to view [which I didn't do when I responded]. ;-)

    Carmine D

  31. Your welcome.

    Carmine D

  32. No, just making sure you both know enough to put them on without having to be told.

    Carmine D