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Sunday, Sept. 23, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
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Once again, Mitt Romney shows he has “foot-in-mouth disease.” At a GOP fundraiser, he was secretly taped saying that 47 percent of voters will vote for Barack Obama regardless of what Romney says because they feel entitled to extensive government support. In reality, he says, they are “victims.” He said his job is not to worry about them.
I’m a senior and a Democrat, so I guess that makes me a victim. The GOP policy is “everyone on their own” while the Democrat policy is “if you are in need of help, we are there for you. We have your back.”
Romney blasted entitlement programs as making us dependent upon the government. I paid into both Social Security and Medicare for 45 years. I am entitled to the benefits.
He mentioned that the 47 percent pay no federal income taxes. Is Romney one of the 47 percent because he has not shown us he has paid federal tax in a 10-year period?
By the way, paying no income tax does not mean a person does not pay taxes. What about Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, local taxes and, in many states, state income taxes?
I think he has officially confirmed that he is not connected with the common folk. He certainly proved that we cannot count on him in a moment of need or in a moment where it is time to reap the investment retired people have made over their lifetime. I am not a victim and I am a responsible citizen.
You spoke the complete truth Mr. Blanner. Well done, Sir.
Romney had his demographics and his math wrong but his conceptualization correct. Those on Welfare, such as food stamps, unemployment benefits and Medicaid are in the tank for Obama. There is no mistake about that. Romney was talking about vote getting, and who he could not depend to vote for him. He was too quick to react, and forgot the mnillions of Americans who paid into and are collecting Meicare and Social Security, like myself, who are going to vote for him.That's forgivable. Millions of us understand what he was referring to, and agree with his intentions on this matter. Those who do not are liberals who would not vote for him anyway. So what's the big deal.There is none.Most Americans are shifting their attention to the ugly scenes in the Greater Middle East where the administration was caught in either incompetent intelligence work in Libya, out outright lies and coverup on the terrorist attack that took American lives, including the Ambassador's.We can no longer trust our government to present the truth, and this will bring significant harm to Obama in the end.
I agree with Houstonjac. I watched the entire video, but I did not disagree with anything that Romney said. The attempt that the media is trying to place on this demonizing Romney for supposedly dispising 47% of Americans is completely false. Everything that Romney has said has been the TRUTH. I am sad that many americans can't handle the truth. I only hope that when it comes time to vote, the american people will look at what Obama has done to this country and vote him out.
"Tell people the truth if you are their friend. Tell people what they want to hear, and you will be liked."
Which is Romney, and which is Obama?
What about Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, local taxes and, in many states, state income t
---
Why about them?
Social Security and Medicare PAYROLL taxes are for your personal RETIREMENT
These are NOT federal income taxes
property taxes, sales taxes, local taxes and, in many states, state income are NOT FEDERAL INCOME TAX
stick to the subject
FEDERAL INCOME TAXES ARE WHAT RUNS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND ONLY 53% of the people pay them anymore
Like it or not when 47% of the people do not pay federal income taxes to run the country we are in trouble - where does this stop
We had a president who connected with the common folk. He stunk up the White House for the last 4 years. All he did was complain about the mess that was left. Well, if he gets reelected, highly unlikely, he's inheriting a worse mess... his own. I'll give the rich business man and Federal budget expert an opportunity to do better. They surely can't do worse.
BTW, for the record letter writer is wrong. Governor Romney, much to the chagrin and lies of dirty harry, paid plenty in taxes. He just doesn't go around bragging about it.
CarmineD
WRT the 47 percent, and growing, that pay not Federal income taxes at all, it is a travesty and threat to the very fiber of American society. And if it goes unchecked, will surely lead to our imminent demise. Great societies are not murdered by outsiders, they commit suicide. 47 percenters, a case in point.
CarmineD
So, what's the real Mitt Romney story? Is it the story his grinning face tells us in TV messages he approves or is it the story he relates to people paying $50,000 a plate to break bread with him? Romney has shown us two faces on almost every issue of importance from a woman's right to choose to immigration. He's also demonstrated that he really doesn't get 47% (or maybe it's 98%) of us and proven he knows way less about us than we're learning about him.
Mr. Blanner can claim otherwise but both the R and D parties have 'given away the store' to voters and have not paid the bill.
Our debt is $ 16 trillion; income to our government is $ 2.4 trillion per year; what government spends is $ 3.7 trillion per year, for a deficit of $ 1.3 trillion.
Using tax cuts (Romney) or government stimulus and a tax increase on the rich (Obama) to grow our economy at even an 'unlikely' 6 %, would leave us with a deficit of over $ 1 trillion per year.
If Mr. Blanner and others want the Medicare and SS 'they paid for' and many other things to continue, we all better start asking where these two guys and their parties will 'cut', and by 'how much'.
We are whistling on deck while of ship of state is sinking.
Michael
The anger against Romney for his comments is because he lumped everyone of those in the 47% as moochers - only wanting free food , etc. Imagine getting the minimum wage pay and trying to live on it, yet when increase in minimum wage is on the table, the rich oligarchs block it, while CEOs get millions in bonuses. Imagine pounding the pavement looking for a job, but cannot find one because the "oligarchs" are hanging on to their money simply to increase unemployment so Obama will look bad. Those who don't pay federal income tax couldn't because of their tax bracket. What is shameful is those who should don't, by using all the tricks available not to.
Look at charities who are desperately in need of money and have to continuously raise funds to survive, yet the rich oligarchs pour millions to PACs to control power.
What sickens me about Romney's comments is his arrogance and ignorance. As a supposedly devout Mormon, he is Miles away from Christ. And what sickens me more are most conservatives who tout being Christians, yet support Romney's unChristian views of those of us who have to 'eat' with our bare hands because we were not born with silver spoons in our mouths.
Romney and his rich friends and the "Christians" who support him need a lesson in humility. He needs to read "Imitation of Christ."
Mitt's 2011 tax return shows he paid $1.9 million in federal income taxes. That puts to the lie what rumor mongers such as Harry the Red & Blanner concoct out of thin air in contending Mitt paid no income taxes for 10 years. (One lies - the other swears to it.) Meanwhile, how much did Blanner pay in 2011? In his lifetime, Blanner probably didn't come close to that figure. Plus, in 2011 Mitt gave about $4 million to charity. What were Blanner's charitable contrbutions for 2011? In his lifetime, Blanner never came close to being that charitable with his disposable income, I'll guess. Blanner would be have been wise to heed Winston Churchill: "When a man is in his twenties, if he isn't a Liberal, he has no heart; when a man is in his fourties, if he isn't a Conservative, he has no brain." And, since Blanner confesses to being a Social Security recipient, what does that make him?
The 47% that do not pay federal income taxes have NO SKIN IN THE GAME. --THERE IS NO FAIR PLAYING FEILD.
WE NEED FAIRNESS IN FEDERAL INCOME TAXES EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME
I always chickle when I see how the GOP keeps getting votes from the old school by talking about those welfare citizens cleaning us dry because that it the ONE BIG THING THAT IS RUINING OUR ECONOMY. If you read between the lines in about his 47% he really means the 99% because who was able to afford his $50,000 dinner?If you weren't at that dinner he doesn't really think much of you either. Keep dreaming he does.
Romney has donated 50 million to charity, more than the Clintons, Obamas and Bidens combined.
He is a truly horrible man.
It will be an interesting election. Simply put, democrats want to tax businesses and consumers more to pay for our out of control entitlement costs which have grown from $984 billion in 1990 to $2.4 trillion this year which is an unsustainable pace. Businesses want our government to get these costs under control because they know if these cost continue to sky-rocket it will leave less money for consumers to spend and less profit for businesses to fund its growth initiatives. Less money in consumers hands combined with smaller business profits from higher tax rates will lead to smaller economic growth. Historically, our GDP growth rate post-WW II has been 3.23% per year and we require a 3.2% GDP growth rate yearly just to supply jobs for new entrants into our workforce. If our GDP growth rate dips then we start failing to supply enough jobs to 18 year olds and college grads. Our current GDP growth rate is around 1.7% which is not enough to supply jobs to new workforce entrants. We need investors, business owners and new entrepreneurs to expand our economy and create jobs. As a country we need to decide our future, are we going to be a nation that continues to grow and prosper economically or do we switch to Europe's entitlement model of slow growth, higher tax rates for those still employed and more jobless Americans? Europe has clearly shown that the entitlement society is very expensive to maintain. Greece's government spending as a percent of GDP is over 50% compared to 41% in the US. Back in the 1930's, US government spending as a percent of GDP averaged 19%. Clearly, we're spending more and not even paying for what we spend. Our entitlement costs are unsustainable and democrats won't admit to this fact.
jwv1968 Sept. 23, 2012 3:14 a.m.
I agree with Houstonjac. I watched the entire video, but I did not disagree with anything that Romney said. The attempt that the media is trying to place on this demonizing Romney for supposedly dispising 47% of Americans is completely false. Everything that Romney has said has been the TRUTH. I am sad that many americans can't handle the truth. I only hope that when it comes time to vote, the american people will look at what Obama has done to this country and vote him out.
"Tell people the truth if you are their friend. Tell people what they want to hear, and you will be liked."
Which is Romney, and which is Obama?
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First, please correct American not american.
Is that the best you have? The one who speaks the truth is Obama.
Great letter. Most middle Americans owe more tax than Romney. He owed 9% and 13% in the 2 returns he was forced to release. Our great Senator harry Reid has proven that Romney has become a de facto tax cheat on his other returns because he manipulates the amount paid to conform to his lies. Owed verse paid, that is part of the scheme.
rusty57 Sept. 23, 2012 6:10 a.m.
Romney has donated 50 million to charity, more than the Clintons, Obamas and Bidens combined.
He is a truly horrible man.
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The donation(s) were probably tax deductible. What has he given without an expectation of anything in return?
Mr Fink:
Blanner is not running for office. Stay on topic.
Do not avoid the issue that your golden boy has no clue about the people he wishes to lead. He only knows about being rich and how to get even richer if you are born into it. He is clueless about having nothing. Sadly, there is the 99% of us who have to claw our way up. He believes that we should be on our own.
Learn a lesson from the Asians. Many of them have become self-sufficient here in the US because
they help each other. When relatives come, they make them stay in their house, help them find jobs, provide them with capital to start a small business, until they can be on their own feet. Have you noticed that many nail salons are owned by Asians? Most major American and European cities have successful Asian populations precisely because they help each other. They do not kick their children out at 18 and they help them until they graduate college and ready to face the world. Many schools in this district show Asians with the highest percentage in passing state tests because parents and siblings help them study and impress upon them the importance of good education. That is the secret of their success, not superior intelligence.
That is called community spirit and it helps and make society 'humane.'
Romney makes you believe that he does, but the videotape revealed the real Romney. He said he is not concerned about those people - and that's where he fails as a leader. A real leader does not leave a 'wounded soldier' in the ditch.
If ole Williiard spent so much in taxes show us his returns from 2006-2009!
Mr. Blanner,
Excellent article! Thank you.
What is at issue here is that if it needs to come to pass that the "47%ers" need to pay more in taxes, who is in a better moral place to impose taxes more equitably?
The republicans who want to cut taxes for the wealthy still more under the guise of "helping the job creators" or the democrats who as of now are asking for just a 4% increase in taxes for those making over 200k?
The democrats have the moral and righteous high ground, I am hopeful the republicans will try to outdo this proposal by the dems instead of following the likes of RefNV, Carmine, Future, McConnell, and Boehner, etc. into the abyss
Enjoyed the letter, Mr. Blanner. Everything you said is the God's honest truth. And it has been verified to be the truth...by all the right wing posters here who are busier than a cat trying to cover their crap on a marble floor deflecting the focus of what you just typed.
Only thing I want to add is that...look at that tape.
I paid attention to the servers. White shirts, black suit coats and white gloves. Wait a minute. White gloves? This occurred at a fat cat mansion in Boca Raton, Florida. It's hot there. Why wear gloves? Oh. Wait. I get it. The filthy rich are deathly afraid of catching the Ebola and/or West Nile virus from the unwashed masses. They have confirmed they are dirty and don't take baths/showers, all infected with STDs too.
Anyways, those servers are the forty-seven percent that Romney is up there railing about.
They are only guilty of trying to perform a job, to make money, to do it to the best of their abilities, to earn a living, to make money to take care of themselves and their loved ones.
I'm sorry, people, but if that were me, I would have immediately stopped what I was doing, reached over and grabbed a salad with roquefort dressing, a well done filet mignon, something, walked over, and right out of the Three Stooges, I would have smushed it hard into Romney's face.
Then I would turn, look at the fat cat that employed me and put on this Romney fiasco, told him sternly that, look, I'll do what I'm supposed to do, do it to perfection, but I do not have to do it while this yay hoo is slamming and making fun of me.
I would have then told him find someone else that can stomach this junk and walked out. Employment terminated. I have scruples. I don't need this. I can always find another job.
THIS is the reason why Wrong Way Romney will lose. Because the majority of the American people think like I do.
You crap on the little people? We really don't mind it. Sometimes it's inevitable. BUT WHEN YOU DO IT ON PURPOSE!?!?! Nope. The guy is toast.
Obama/Biden 2012!
@kepi: he did what he is legally supposed to. And donating money or anything else for a tac right off is not a bad thing. Whats actually bad is people like you that demonize the guy for actually doing something charitable for people.
@ sad teacher: Like you said stay on topic. We're discussing Americans not Asians.
Gov. Mitt Romney speaking about the 47% (leaked tape) freeloaders and moochers who he says will vote for the re-election of Pres.Obama.If Gov. Romney is correct about the 47%.It won't take but a few more percentage points to seal the re-election for Pres.Obama.
On this date of the leaked tapes Gov.Romney has shown his true colors.He does not represent all the people ,only the rich. This is what will cost him the election,his own doing.
Whiners,
All y'all are just plain weird...we are heading toward an iceberg and you weirdos are lining up deck chairs. Such a waste of energy and emotions bereft of reason and logic!!
Blanner, as I wrote yesterday, I know, you know and even my cat knows Romney was not referring to you and your fellow seniors...you know to whom he was referring! Be honest!
Get a new argument and save the self-pity. Weirdos.
Puragtory
Obama hasn't turned around the economy like Reagan did. there are fewer Americans working as a percent of our population now compared to when Obama entered the white house. 60.9% of our population were working back in 2009 when Obama took office, now only 58.5% are working. The pace of job creation during the last three years has not kept pace with new entrants in the job market. Average GDP growth under Obama is 1.7% and it needs to be 3.2% just to keep pace with new job entrants. Compare that with Reagan. Reagan at the end of the 1982 recession had 57.3% of the population employed then had 60.9% employed four years later, an increase of 3.6% for Reagan compared to Obama's decrease of -0.9%. We need economic growth and job creation. Americans would love to see a Reagan economic recovery.
Obama failed to get our economy going again so now his pitch is a handout to Americans, not prosperity via and expanding economy and job growth.
Presidential candidate Mitt Romney, the one Europeans call "The American Borat," just can't seem to find an audience. To appease one audience while asking them for money he offends another. This is what happens when your principle's are compromised by doublespeak. The most recent disclosure came when he was video taped saying that 47% of Americans are, in one form or the other, on the dole, victims reliant upon government handouts while paying no federal income taxes. He says these people are all Obama supporters. If that's true then Mitt should quit, he has no chance of being elected, Obama has bought nearly all the votes he needs in advance. But of course it isn't true. By foolishly saying this Romney has characterized the 11 million seniors who rely upon Social Security for 90% of their income as being on the dole. He also groups together and characterizes low wage earners like the working poor, students, part time employees and single mom's as if they were tax cheats scamming the system by not earning enough to pay income tax, cheating other Americans. Had G.W. Bush not cut income taxes for these low income folks by a few nickels in order to give ten straight years of huge tax breaks to the wealthy then many of the 47 percent would be paying some income tax today, but not much. Bush lowered taxes on the wealthy dramatically while giving a very small concession to low wage earners. His trickle down economic experiment failed. We are all still waiting for that trickle but today it still isn't even a drip, drip, drip. Maybe Romney should try another approach, "9-9-9" sounds like a slogan that could resonate with voters. Oops, I guess that one's no longer available.
<<WRT the 47 percent, and growing, that pay not Federal income taxes at all>>
I say "BS" to that!!! Sure, there are those who do not pay any Federal income tax because they do NOT make enough mnoney to do so. Wasn't Reagan that came up with this? If you make under a certain amount in wages, you are exempt from paying Federal income tax? And most still pay state taxes if applicable.
Also how about all the disabled adults? Our disabled MILITARY personnel who came home without arms or legs after fighting Republican wars? Do you expect THESE people to pay taxes? They are probably not even getting a "living wage" with disability payments.
I, too, am one of those alleged "victims" (per Romney's description). I collect Social Security but I also work a part time job of less than 20 hrs a week at a "just above minimum wage" of $10.00 an hour. My paycheck has a detailed breakdown of the taxes taken out - and that includes SS taxes, FICA, Medicare, and the "Illinois state tax", the % of which is just a few dollars BELOW Federal taxes. Sorry, but I certainly do NOT consider myself a victim even though I get that damn "government handout" every month in the form of my Social Security.
Last year my income for the year was a little over $12,000. Luckily for that EIC, I actually did get some money back but hardly enough to put gas in my car for a month. For 2012, between my job and Social Security, I will get dinged for paying Federal tax on about $2000-$3000 of my Social Security benefits. Will I still be considered a "victim"? Many seniors who still work are in the same position as I am. They STILL pay all the necessary taxes, even though their combined annual income is way less than what mine is.
So for you to say that "47%" do NOT pay taxes is erroneous - as usual. Sure, I can quit my job and then be eligible for all SORTS of government "hand outs" because my income will go down - help with rent, food stamps, utility help, etc. But as long as I am able to work (and I do enjoy it), myself as well as so many other seniors, we will work until we can no longer get out of bed, get in our cars and still be productive members of society.
I guess you think that those seniors in their 60's, 70's and 80's who no longer can work and are disabled consider themselves "Victims" and are glad for the gov't handouts. Oh and let's not forget all those members of the military that are disabled. I guess you feel that they, too, consider themselves "Victims".
For someone who professes to be a "practicing Catholic", you sure lack compassion and understanding for your fellow man. But you'll receive Communion every week, participate in Mass but yet inside, you could care less for those who are in need. Hypocrite.
At 6:10 AM, rusty57 stated the "Romney has donated 50 million to charity,more than the Clintons,Obamas and Bidens combined." " He is truly a horrible man" Really rusty Romney is horrible? You are truly one of us.
It's easy to attack and be disagreeable. It's much more difficult but rewarding to FIND SOLUTIONS. As said, Romney and I are not as slick with words as Mr. O. Doesn't mean his and my reasoning is faulty. There is a world of difference between retirees and people with TEMPORARY issues and those people who make a career out of dependency often using children to obtain continuous benefits from programs--government programs AND non-profits AND the good will of neighbors. There is something wrong with anyone who will accept, take or demand from the rest of us so they can remain unaccountable. Let us change this by changing who we prioritize. Let's prioritize able-bodied adults with proven work records--let's assist them back into the work force. Let's lower the priority on those who've been on any form of assistance for a long time EXCEPTING the truly disabled--who are almost always on SSI or SSDI. SNAP food stamps are advertised because Nevada has low participation rate by seniors--single adults--with a direct correlation in that Nevada does relatively NOTHING for single adults while we spend endlessly on those who chuck out numerous kids they refuse to support and refuse to care for.
Purgatory 7:43: You have a way with words but I doubt you have many converts. Pointing fingers at those who are not the candidates you prefer is ARRANGING DECK CHAIRS on the Titanic. Get Congress of their dead ends and GET SOMETHING DONE--I'd like to see expulsion of illegals--the 12% of employees in Nevada who are illegals would open up jobs for even our long-term unemployed. And let's not point fingers and say those aren't the jobs we want--yes we do. Those who are so l-t unemployed, those living on the streets, recent grads, anyone who is willing to work their way up. I don't care if it "breaks up" families if the anchor babies born here refuse to return with their families. I prioritize my kids, grandkids, neighbors, citizens OVER illegals. We cannot afford educate, house, feed, cloth, vaccinate 16 million illegals while our seniors go without basic food and heat.
Ditto FUTURE 5:45: I agree we must get a flatter tax code and eliminate the social welfare within. I suspect that's a large part of the GOP failure to deal with the fiscal cliff--the end of Bush-era tax cuts will also end SOME of the social welfare within the tax code. And then, they can Legislate a slightly flatter code.
I get a kick out of the way Obama gets blamed for everything. Give me a break! Entitlements came out of the Civil War. 30% of the people were getting some type of government assistance in the 1960s. The 17 point rise that we have seen since then is due almost entirely to an aging population and skyhigh medical costs. No one in this country that gets seriously ill can afford it.
The number will go higher as the remaining 36 million baby boomers retire. That's just the way it is.
In terms of "poor people" 64% of the people in this country can lay their hands on a grand. The lack of adequate savings and investment by individuals has left the majority of the people in this country poor.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/pf/emerg...
Poor people...64% of the nation.
The elderly are not part of the dependent class?? Are you joking! Households headed by someone over 70 are the poorest households in the country. Half the seniors are currently dying penniless. They have nothing and many no longer have the ability to work. They are starving on a $1000 month Social Security check. The elderly are the ultimate dependent class.
The real victims here are not the imaginary bloodsuckers in Willard's sick mind. Instead, it's that forty-something percent of voters who will cast their ballots for this empty suit republican, the next in a long line of inferior candidates who won the nomination only because the other choices were even worse.
With his phoney grin and canned talking points it's obvious Romney is out of his element. He should have stayed in the corner office at Bain and the one job he actually understands: firing American workers and sending their jobs overseas.
Mitt Romney wants us divided. He has a narrow Mormon agenda. Romney is bad for America.
"The GOP policy is "everyone on their own" while the Democrat policy is "if you are in need of help, we are there for you. We have your back."
____________
Yeah, that's why Romney and his wife have given millions of their own money to charity. Wealthy Democrats like to hand out tax money (in order to buy votes), but when it comes to putting their own money where their mouths are, well there not so good at that.
Roslenda,
I gave up on the non-convertable decades ago. Peacelilly, Blanner, Vernos, et al are only used to illustrate the end-points of our society. They are beyond hope for change. I am not after them.
My goal here is to cause a casual observer who is watching the chaos on this page to think, use logic, reason, and to act. Civil discourse is way over-rated and ineffective - just ask Casler, as that is his gig and he likes deck chairs.
Please allow me the fun of stating the obvious in a somewhat snarky way.
Truthfully, I am tiring of my own Purgatory between the sane and the insane. I trust I can break out of it some day.
The political system in America is inherently fraudulent.
A candidate goes into "different" communities and play to the crowd. Say whatever they want, and say it differently depending on the people in the community.
The talking heads, cable news, talk radio, and opinion news, shape and tell us what to think of the candidates and who to vote for. The message given to voters is served hot, with an extreme intent and non-stop twenty-four hours a day. Every so often the truth is squeezed out by accident and then attacked liked an invading alien.
In today's political world, the American people are viewing political candidates in a totally different light. Ironically, an incumbent is tolerated, and in many cases accepted, no matter the degree of productivity.
There is so much corruption in politics, we as Americans have accepted politicians will lie, and politicians know they can lie, without a real challenge from the voters. The politicians change the message depending on what the audience wants to hear.
---Shut the front door---
Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid despicably lied
A PricewaterhouseCoopers (PWC) audit of Mitt and Ann Romney past returns shows they averaged a 20.2 percent effective federal income tax rate on adjust gross income for the last 20 years and never paid less than 13.66 percent.
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So Harry Reid flat out lied about about Romney not paying taxes
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Romneys also released their final tax return for 2011. That document will show the Romneys paid $1.9 million in taxes on less than $14 million in income, mostly from their bind trust investments. Romneys gave $4 million to charity but only claimed half on their return as a deduction.
According to PWC Over the entire 20-year period, the total federal and state taxes owed plus the total charitable donations deducted represented 38.49% of total AGI.
---
Amazingly the the first thing Democrat complained about was Romney only took credit for $2.25 million of the $4 million of charitable. Not clear why? Did Democrats not want Romney to donate the $4 million. What is the beef?
"I have trouble understanding audacity of Mitt Romney. (He's) coming to my state ...talking as if we don't know what took place in years past," the Senate Majority Leader said. "It's rich to hear Mitt Romney complain about people not paying income taxes."
Ever see Reid tax return - No
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Liberals fend being obtuse about tax reform.
"The plan will reduce tax rates, broaden the tax base, eliminate/limit deductions and loopholes by the high income tax payers and NOT increase taxes on the middle class.
From the WSJ August 29, 2012, Pg. A15
- Using the latest IRS Quarterly Publication data for 2009 government revenue before tax deductions was $904 billion.
- For those richest top 20% the tax deductions reduce their taxes by $191 billion. A 20% tax rate for everybody would cut would reduce taxes by only $186 billion.
--- Therefore the Romney plan by eliminating all tax deduction only on the Richest 20% would actually increase tax revenue by $5 billion on a static review.
Since most rich people (couples making over $200k) respond to changes in the tax code on a dynamic scoring demonstrates historical significant economic growth and hence increased government revenue.
The reality is that tickle-down economics is a huge failure. Romney just can't undertand that.
Doesn't really matter since (1) the budget agreement between the demos and the repubs will reduce the deficit by $1.1 trillion and (2) the bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012.
These two things can't be changed by Romney even if he wins in Nov.
Obama has had a hard time getting the economy back on track because it was so screwed up by the repubs during the time GWB was in the WH and because the GOP doesn't want to work with him.
Unfortunately for the author, the entitlement mentality he defends will soon become unsupportable. The economy is, at best, stuck in neutral. Young people can't find jobs. The price of energy goes up, and with it everything else. Almost half of every government dollar that goes out is short-term debt owed to someone else, a bill our underemployed young and their children will be stuck with. Pension & benefit costs in a number of states and localities are underfunded and have been for years. Internationally, we're threatened economically by inept trade policies and physically by a rising jihadist tide that knows no borders. And worst of all, we're saddled with a national leadership that fails to lead, fails to change, and fails to act. Government will be reined in and entitlements brought under control, in either a planned way or by default, the question for us as nation is do we take proactive action for the sake of our children or do we dither and leave the mess for them to suffer through?
Romney took a tax amnesty for his Swiss account in 2009, that is why he hides the return.
Jim you brought it up, any comment on when Obama has a $35,800 a plate dinner and stiffs the town he visits?
>> from the http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-le...
The city of Newport Beach, California, has been chasing the Obama campaign for months, in an effort to get them to pay the $35,000 in added security costs of a fundraiser held there earlier this year.
In stark contrast, Team Romney reimbursed the city for security costs at a Republican fundraiser--without delay--according to the Los Angeles Times.
Mr. Blanner, you don't have to worry, and I do not think seniors on SS were part of the intended 47% comment,though many would be in that category if they did not prepare well for retirement.
Bear in mind Obama has had people PAY LESS into the system for the last 2 years, money which will have to come out of future wages at some point..
From Mitt Romney website:
>>First, for future generations of seniors, Mitt believes that the retirement age should be slowly increased to account for increases in longevity.
Second, for future generations of seniors, Mitt believes that benefits should continue to grow but that the growth rate should be lower for those with higher incomes.
With just those two simple steps, and no change in benefits for those at or near retirement, America can guarantee the preservation of the Social Security system for the foreseeable future.
Mitt is committed to saving Social Security. He will ensure that America honors all of its commitments to today's seniors and strengthens the program so that it is financially secure for future generations.
Yeah, keep making excuses for Romney. They won't fly. The GOP should have selected a credible candidate people could get behind - they didn't. Blaming others for Romney's weakness won't gain him votes.
Think about it, Romney is outspending Obama and is STILL falling behind. Only an incompetently run campaign could manage that feat. Even the state he governed (Massachusetts) is going for Obama. That's right - the people who liked him enough to elect him governor before now do not think he should be elected again. That's a powerful message one cannot ignore.
Purgatory 10:09. Ja sure, keep on keeping on. I see that you are where I acquired the term Whiner. Can you find a way to restate the msg: In better times, a third of Americans received some form of social welfare. Now that it's notched up to half, we need to re-examine who gets how much. We accept retirement / SS / Medicare / disability. We do NOT accept young college kids "paying" their way via grants, tuition tax credits, food stamps (oh, yes they do), free health care (at clinics and on campus) while driving new trucks and SUV's. In my day, college kids drove "good runners" if they drove at all. Bus lines and walking was in. And all of us born WITHOUT that silver spoon, worked our way thru. Sub-standard housing, a way of life for 20-somethings--not subsidized rent and/or down-payment grants. And it's a blessed shame that those on complete, total, refuse-to-work assistance often live better life styles than the working class of Americans--until we END TAX SUBSIDIES for the whining way of life--leaving only tax credits for elderly, retired, disabled.
Always interesting to see how math escapes the R's...
If Romney was not including the retired SS, Medicare and Veterans benefit recipients the figure would not be 47%!!! it would be about 20 and some change! So when he says 47% he has to be counting those groups to get that number! So it was not a mistake. He said what he meant to say and how he feels about people that receive anything from the government whether paid into or as a safety net. When you propose eliminating those programs he knows even the retired seniors will not support him. 47% ! AARP seniors walked out on Ryans speech ! A clear sign of support right!
Here is another clue.. not every person can have a small business! What would they sell or make that everyone else isn't also selling and making? Who would be their customers? In a 21st century economy there will be people who are strictly employees and depend on jobs created by others whether small medium or mega corporations.. I think many have this odd world view as if we are still in the 1700's ! expecting each person to create their own business..with rugged individualism.
Another clue... you cant go off saying the government shouldn't create jobs then in the same breath blame the government for not creating jobs! Are you bipolar? Tax reductions take over a year to have an effect on the economy.. and don't create many jobs.. reduced regulations also fail to create jobs.. they generally increase profits as the reduced regulations are mostly a cost savings to the business.. in many cases reducing employment by not requiring some employees that deal with the regulations for the company. Cost savings do not translate into hiring more people.. demand does! Demand always comes from the bottom (consumer) up not the top (corporation) down.. That is why trickle up works and trick down does not!
Simple economics... but not simple enough for some I see..
Romney spoke the truth. Admit it. Move on.
Nothing new coming from those who sleep over on the right! They continue to not get it!!
Of course, that's why they will all vote for Romney!
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Mitt is a "fat cat" who identifies mainly with other "fat cats."
That was what he was doing with his little speech at the $50,000. a plate fund raiser......making the "fat cats" feel better about themselves!
The American people are starting to wake-up from their nap & they're starting to wonder just who Mitt Romney actually is....
These same Americans are asking such questions as, "Can we trust this guy?"....How many lies has he told us?".....Why won't he release his income tax returns for all to see?"
In other words, a lot of questions but no real answers!
The most amazing (but very weird) thing about this whole election cycle is to watch the "pay check to pay check" Republicans consistently go to bat for a man who could care less about them...
I guess Bill Maher hit the nail on the head when he said, "There's two types of Republicans....the rich & the stupid."
And of course, as we all know you can't fix stupid!!
Hey Carmine. Future, & houstonjack.....Don't forget to vote on November 6th. Mitt needs every vote that he can get!
Roslenda,
Methinks we are on the same page. I am just less optimistic, especially when reading the comments of most of these weirdos. I am beyond trying to be respectful to the left, right, or the middle, when they are all mostly wrong.
I will participate in positive discussion when each commenter starts his or her statement with "the Federal Government borrows 42 cents of every dollar it spends, and is projected to do so for the foreseeable future." Nothing else matters nor should there be anything else to discuss. Until we agree that all of the rest of the issues are in the noise of details in the light of our impending implosion, I will not be open to civil discussion.
Regards,
Purgatory
Roslenda... About 30% of the population was getting government assistance in the 1960s. The period leading up to the last recession was one of the longest uninterrupted periods of growth in American history. The unemployment rate was at near record lows and we went nearly 16 years with only one relatively mild recession. Unprecedented in American history. Even during this time of unprecedented growth you had over 40% of the population getting some type of entitlement. Contrary to popular belief the number hasn't changed much in the last few years.
As I stated above the increased entitlement exposure is due to our society which is aging. It's going on all over the world. Whether times are good or bad you're still going to have 78 million baby boomers retiring. It's just the way life is.
chuck333 Sept. 23, 2012 7:13 a.m.
@kepi: he did what he is legally supposed to. And donating money or anything else for a tac right off is not a bad thing. Whats actually bad is people like you that demonize the guy for actually doing something charitable for people.
``````````
Oh Please! Are you referring to the Mormon Tithing? Yea, that is a lot of money. He makes a lot of money and is required to give the Mormon Church 10% of his gross earnings, which, by the way, is tax deductible (if he pays taxes).
Look, we all contribute to charities and we give what we can. He gives the required 10% to the Mormon Church and who really knows if and how much he gives to other charities. All he has to do is show us the tax returns (2006 - 2009) reflecting his generous contributions; otherwise, I don't believe a word of it! That is my opinion!!
AND, I would like the R & R to STOP the War Against Women.
For all the Women out there:
Search:
Ryan Plan
GOP War on Women
Ryan War on Women
Republican War on Women
TEA,
Your back?
Who said the 1960's were wonderful. When able-bodied adults refuse to support their kids because it's easier to live off the dole, it just ain't right. We shouldn't be borrowing a dime to pay illegals to have kids nor to pay citizens to have kids they won't support.
Over time people confuse fact with fiction as with the prior statement that Obama didn't turn around the economy like Reagan did. Reagan was faced with a much less daunting problem while Obama inherited multiple complex problems. But it still took Reagan 8 years to restore the economy to "normal." Much has been made about Romney giving several million dollars to the Mormon church. In the scheme of things for someone who has a net worth of $250,000,000 or more it isn't that much. It is far more difficult for someone with a family of four earning $50,000 to give $1,000. The irony of it all is that it is unlikely that the $50,000 a year earner will get an income tax deduction as they would probably use the standard deduction. When Romney gave the church millions he got the deduction. But his contribution was only 85.9% and the federal government subsidized his donation 14.1% or $352,500! What's wrong with this picture?
The myths that are out there about Ronald Reagan are unbelievable. I always get a "kick" out of the "Dutch lovers" who harbor all these myths about their "conservative president."
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
First of all, Ronald Reagan was not a fiscal conservative.....far from it!
He spent money like a "drunken sailor on leave." Much of the money came from Social Security.
Secondly, Reagan NEVER produced a balance budget in his 8 years.
Thirdly, he greatly increase the size of the federal government. Of course, he ran for president on the promise that he would decrease the size of the federal government & he would produce a balanced budget.
Last but least in importance, he greatly increased the national debt.
He once said that the one thing he regretted the most as president was the fact that he took this nation from being the largest lending nation in the world to the world's largest borrowing nation...
As Richard pointed out, the economy handed to President Obama was far worse and much more complex in nature than the economy inherited by Reagan....
Anyone who believes that Ronald Reagan was a fiscal conservative has been watching FOX NEWS way too much!.
Robert..........GREAT LETTER!
YES, it's official, romney will NEVER CARE about
the 47% that he and his rich friends laugh about.
But romney's biggest worry should be the 55% of
Americans who will vote for PRESIDENT OBAMA in
November.
Romney will lose so bad that republican heads
will be spinning for years.
The majority of Americans already know that
republicans are greedy, heartless snakes in the
grass.
NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!
El_Lobo........
Great comment about Reagan.
Reagan started this mess with trickle-down,
anti-union GREED!
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!
Comment removed by moderator. - -
kepi - "Oh Please! Are you referring to the Mormon Tithing?"
Nope. They are referring to the millions he has given to other charities, such as The Tyler Foundation.
"Hey Carmine. Future, & houstonjack.....Don't forget to vote on November 6th. Mitt needs every vote that he can get!"
If the applause for Governor Romney at the Emmy's last night is an indication of Nov 6, we'll have lots of voter company.
CarmineD
"So for you to say that "47%" do NOT pay taxes is erroneous"
You forgot the word "income" before taxes. Your error. Not Gov Romney.
CarmineD
Charles Gladu Sept. 24, 2012 1:26 a.m.
kepi - "Oh Please! Are you referring to the Mormon Tithing?"
Nope. They are referring to the millions he has given to other charities, such as The Tyler Foundation.
************************
I found something on The Tyler Foundation:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012...
Nancy, if you are really a "teacher," I can see why our schools are in such terrible shape. When people "voluntarily" help other people that's one thing. When government forces people to "help" other people; that's quite another. And that's what I and a host of other folks object to: government force. Most of us, maybe not "teachers" such as yourself, are quite capable of taking care of ourselves, our familes and our obligations without government interference and without "political correctness."
kepi:"The donation(s) were probably tax deductible. What has he given without an expectation of anything in return?
"
Democrat politicians only give in an election year. And then there is Biden who basically gives a ham sandwich. I get the feeling you tap the salvation army bucket with a quarter, get your "thank you" and put it back in your pocket. What is your point? You donate for a tax deduction? Jaded much?
El Lobo, perhaps Reagan looked so good because Carter looked SOOOO BAD. Vote mediocrity. Vote union.
A note to those trying to blame President Obama for our economic mess. It's time for you to bone up on history.
The middle class has been in decline since "top side" or "trickle down" economics has been used as an engine to drive the economy. When Ronald Reagan fired the air traffic controllers the fuse was lit starting this decline. For the last 35 years or so the wealth of the country has shifted to the "supply side" wealthy who stick it in offshore foreign accounts. There was no "trickle down" unless you count the bulging pockets of people who don't work for a living while gaining profits from capital gains, people like Mitt Romney. I don't begrude these people their wealth, but President Obama can't be blamed for what these people syphon out of the American economy, leaving a shrinking middle class and broadening working poor class behind.
How can anyone expect working people who barely earn enough to feed their families pay an income tax? Especially when the tax sytem is skewed for the wealthiest who use it to their full advantage. When our infrastructure fails will those top 2% finally kick in to rebuild this country?
I know, those of you living on "Bizarro World" will never understand this post, but I must post it anyway.
Vern....
Great post! You're 100% correct. We've been losing our middle class for some 30+ years.
Once we completely lose our middle class, we will lose our form of government.
Mexico is a perfect example of what goes on once a country has no middle class and the wealthy calls all of the shots..
I will never undestand how people can consistently vote against thier own best interests ("pay check to pay check Republicans" for example...) and then buy into the myth that the other side is destroying the country....
Well, what Bill Maher claims probably explains the unexplainable....
Bill says there's two kinds of Republicans........rich Republicans & stupid Republicans!
I must agree with BIll...
Of course, as Bill also points out, you can't fix stupid!
If Romney is eleceted many people will die because (as he said on 60 minutes) he wants people to "go to the emergency room. That is his plan. Get ready UMC.
If Obama gets re-elected the Sun will report that he inherited a bad economy. And his mindless base will believe it.
ASadTeacher and Roslenda have made comments which really address the 47% issue. The lack of personal responsibility of people. Why does a woman have more children then she can afford to feed? The problem should be stopped at birth, if a family or woman can not show financial responsibility the child is put in a foster home until the income level is obtained, rather than give extra money for extra kids. If they could not keep their kids and get extra money habits will change. Is it a "right" to have as many kids you want or a responsibility to be able to raise them on your own income? China has a strict birth control law, whether you agree with it or not it shows how important it is. How do illegal immigrants work low paying jobs and still be able to live and still send money back to their families? The comments on Asians is true, and there are true American families here in the USA that still have that same pride and family value. The only reason many are in the 47% is because they put themselves there and the government seems willing to keep handing them "help", how does that help them?.
rusty......rusty.....rusty....
What are we going to do with you?
There you go again claiming that the economy left to Obama by the clueless guy from Texas was robust and growing...
Oh well, I guess in your clueless corner of the world, George junior did an outstanding job as president.....
Do I have that right?
rusty, I'll tell you just what I told Future, Carmine & houstonjack......
Make sure you voter on November 6th. Your candidate needs all the help he can get.......
November 6th can't come soon enough for Mitt and his campaign team. It appears that they're running out of lies..
Comment removed by moderator. Name Calling
Vernos wants to credit Obama with anything good that Vernos thinks he did and anything bad that happened is Bush's fault. Perfect world eh Vernos?
"Bill O'Reilly (America's most watched and most trusted "news" commentator)(much to the "left's chagrin)"
BWAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAA
That's the funniest thing I've heard in months!!!!
bayview summed it up very well when he/she said:
"Obama has had a hard time getting the economy back on track because it was so screwed up by the repubs during the time GWB was in the WH and because the GOP doesn't want to work with him."
Unfortunately, after the election, the Republicans in Congress will continue to drag their feet and do anything & everything that they can do to keep Obama from getting the economy back on track...
It looks as if the GOP will keep control of the House and the Democrats will keep control of the Senate. Of course, Obama will re-election for another four years.....
Allowing the Bush tax cuts to fade into the sunset come December will be a good thing. Many of the cuts (but not all) made in the automatic budget cuts agreement will also be a good thing...........particularly those cuts made to the defense budget...
The cuts to the defense budget will be a disaster for the GOP. The GOP depends upon the money, support, and votes they receive from Republican controlled congressional districts that many of the military bases and defense plants reside in...
If you understand that bit of logic, you clearly understand why Texas is bright red!
hombre said:
"Vernos wants to credit Obama with anything good that Vernos thinks he did and anything bad that happened is Bush's fault. Perfect world eh Vernos?"
That's interesting ....
hombre, don't you understand that it's next to impossible to defend the inept record of George W Bush.....even in a "back-handed way."
To stubbornly defend clueless George and his policies can be compared to a man standing in quicksand, up to his chin, and refusing any help or rescue attempts by people standing by...
In other words, your time is limited and your defense argument is sinking into the sand....
Give it up hombre!
By the way, how many of your relatives and friends were on board the Titanic?
kepi - So you do acknowledge his charitable donations other than his church tithing. Thanks.
To quote Forbes - "All told, we have accounted for nearly $18 million of charitable giving by Mitt Romney to date, roughly 8% of what we currently estimate his net worth to be and three times Obama's net worth. Yet it is very likely that we are undercounting Romney's total lifetime giving by many millions, as any exhaustive log of Romney's pre-2010 out of pocket donations is locked away in the presidential candidate's historical tax returns."
Sad and Peterf: Many kids are on their own LONG before 18. Some get food and shelter, such as it is, until they are 18. K-12 MUST enable these kids by teaching that we all have options OTHER THAN PREGNANCY.
Illegals have funds to send home BECAUSE they chuck out a bunch of illegal anchor babies and we taxpayers pick up the tab for all. WELFARE FOR BABIES pretending they are citizens.....they get it all.
I stopped at a couple yard sales this weekend. The last one was an anglo man, 51 years old. Lost his wife when they "had to" file bankruptcy to keep the house--ex is employed. He's "still" not working, he says. He's so proud he's still in the house, hasn't made a payment in some time. HOWEVER, his "girl" had a son with him about a year ago. They are not married. He provides the house. She (an illegal it seems) provides the social welfare: food, utilities, medicaid....
His other source of income: yard sales, endless yard sales. His prices were not as low as the local area--he's fully aware of the "curb alerts" / free stuff on Craig's List and freecycle so I guess he's an enterprising guy LIVING OFF YOU AND ME.
OCTOMOM: just caught some of Dr. Phil. Nadyia is still out there telling us how she gives it all for her 14 kids--none with a father in sight. Taxpayers got the tab for the millions in prenatal, child birth, postnatal.... Takes just one of her versus oh say 40 taxpayers to cover the cost.
hombre - "Vernos wants to credit Obama with anything good that Vernos thinks he did and anything bad that happened is Bush's fault."
You are dead wrong. The fact that Obama is using drones which kills innocent people bothers me, greatly. But I'd rather use drones than boots on the ground and scratch it up to those famous words, "collateral damage". The fact that Obama has extended the Patriot Act which is in contrast to our Constitution bothers me. The fact that Obama caved to health insurances companies to get health care passed bothers me. There are many other things I can bring up, but I do know he comes from the middle class and is working to restore the middle class unlike others who had advantages most people will never realize, those born with silver spoons and politically powerful fathers. No president is perfect and a few who held the office have proven to be bigger fools that most.
Oh, I just found out Romney invested in a nationalized communist Chinese oil company that does business with Iran. Once again it proves the "almighty dollar" rules out all other behavior and ideology for the wealthiest among us.
El Lobo, Just to be clear: If Obama gets re-elected the Sun will report that he inherited a bad economy. He inherited from himself. And we'll all enjoy another 4 years of "summer of recovery".
rusty...
No matter how you spin it, history will clearly point out that one of the things that has kept the economy from moving forward as fast as we all would like to see is the determination of the GOP to drag their feet and refuse to work with Obama..
More and more Americans are starting to see that and that fact alone is a major reason why Obama continues to increase his lead in the various polls...
Have you seen the latest polls? Doesn't look good for Mitt, does it?
Vern...
I wonder what Romney is going to say now about how he will, if elected, get tough with China since the news of his business dealings with a nationalized communist Chinese oil company is common knowledge....
Yes I agree with you! Romney continues to want it both ways but more and more Americans are seeing Romney as he truly is....a "fat cat" who is all about the "almighty dollar."
Obama is the best hope that the middle class has....Romney is the best hope the wealthy have!
The polls continue to show Obama increasing his lead over Romney....How sweet it is.......