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Friday, Oct. 19, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
Another view?
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The November election should serve as a wake-up call for the Republican Party.
The major problem with the present-day GOP is that it’s moved so far to the right that it’s boxed in, scaring away many Republican moderates and independents.
A quick look at the history of the two-party system in this country clearly points out that extremism never wins in the long run. The quickest way for a political party to become a mere page or two in a history book is to blindly follow an extreme agenda year after year.
I think I just described the present-day Republican Party. Republican stalwarts such as Jeb Bush have recently stated such, but his voice of reason has been ignored, criticized and pushed back into obscurity.
It will be interesting to see if the present-day GOP is around as a viable political party in 25 years. My guess is that the GOP will go the way of the dinosaur if it doesn’t change its ways and move back toward the center politically.
Larry, the democratic party is actually the party of extremism.
Democrats have lost moderate and conservative members of congress these last few years, from 56 in 2010 to only 10 sure-bets to return next congress. Liberals have tilted the party far-left socialist which makes compromising with a pro-business/free market party next to impossible.
The democrats far left base is the Occupy group which consists of radical teachers/students, socialists, anarchists and unionized workers. These are tax & spend liberals. It would be blasphemy to even utter the phrases "reduce the deficit", "reform entitlements" or "reform the tax code" as these concepts are not a match with the overall socialist philosophy of the far-left socialist base that now is in control of the democratic party. Effectively, the beliefs of the socialist democrats and the anti-business Obama are blocking our economic recovery.
Class warfare against top wage earners is a classic socialist ploy. Obama double downed yesterday on a veto threat on any bill passed by congress to avert the fiscal cliff that didn't include his tax warfare tax plan that already failed in the house this year on a bi-partisan vote. With this year's debt being $1,100 billion, Obama's tax warfare tax plan would bring in less than $60 billion which doesn't solve our debt problem. Non-partisan tax and budget experts agree it won't come close to producing the revenue the nation needs. Where does Obama plan to get the rest of the money?
The CBO Director Doug Elmendorf stated we would enter a recession should the tax rates rise and the spending cuts take affect next year. Here is an excerpt from an article from "The Hill" quoting the CBO director:
' The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) on Wednesday warned the economy will enter a recession next year if the country goes over the so-called fiscal cliff.
In its most dire warning yet about the fiscal cliff, the CBO said the economy would contract by 0.5 percent in calendar year 2013 if the George W. Bush-era tax rates expire and automatic spending cuts are implemented.
Unemployment also would rise from 8.2 percent in 2012 to 9.1 percent next year, the office estimates.
"The stakes of fiscal policy are very high right now," CBO Director Doug Elmendorf said. He urged Congress to act in September to avoid the fiscal cliff.
"The sooner that that uncertainty is resolved, the stronger the economy would be in the second half of this year," he said. "Economic growth right now is being held back by the anticipation of this fiscal tightening." '
What Obama prefers is to send our country back in recession. Obama really doesn't understand the plight of the 23 million unemployed/under-employed Americans. It is why so many Americans silently declare that he should be replaced.
Larry says "A quick look at the history of the two-party system in this country clearly points out that extremism never wins in the long run. The quickest way for a political party to become a mere page or two in a history book is to blindly follow an extreme agenda year after year."
-----
I think Larry just described the change from old Democrat Party with people like John Kennedy and Bill Clinton to Now under Obama.
Obama is turning America into a government centric dependency State. Obama's top down-government is taking our freedom and dreams away.
The only way for the PEOPLE to get America back is to vote for ROMNEY-RYAN
Obama told us yesterday that he will vote the extension of the current tax rate. This will take another $5 trillion out of the hands of all Americans so he can expand his top down-government control. Obama wants to have a government centric dependency State like Greece and Spain
R's have moved to the right in 'some' ways in recent years and D's have moved to the left in 'some' ways. Neither is a good development in my view as a moderate but it isn't enough in either case to push the 'panic' button.
Let's look at recent history. In 2008, many of candidate Obama's views and his philosophy were to the left of the views of Hilary Clinton (his history said that although his campaign hid it well). Who got the nomination? The candidate more to the left. Who got the R nomination in 2008? A person who championed campaign finance reform with a D named Russ Feingold, and someone who supported comprehensive immigration reform... yes that John McCain. Did Conservative firebrands Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, or Newt Gingrich get the R nomination in 2012? No they didn't. Moderate Mitt Romney got the R nomination instead.
This claim about the R's is like Obama's campaign about Mitt Romney. You can say something that isn't true over and over again and it works well....until the facts and the truth are presented. Then, the claims are proven false or at least highly exaggerated and a more 'true' picture emerges.
Look at Mitt Romney's history. The man has been a moderate and he is a moderate. The far right of the R party and there is such a thing, just like the far left of the D party, will never love moderate Mitt, but he is what he is....moderate Mitt...and he is the guy the so called 'radical' R's nominated for their candidate for President.
Michael
As an voting American who is old in the tooth, I'm not concerned with whether the republican party as we know it will be around in another 25 years. I'm concerned that if we have another 4 years with the same leaders at the helm, we won't have a country as we know around in 2016.
CarmineD
RefNV sez:
"In its most dire warning yet about the fiscal cliff, the CBO said the economy would contract by 0.5 percent in calendar year 2013 if the George W. Bush-era tax rates expire and automatic spending cuts are implemented."
That isn't what the CBO says. It says the economy would GROW, not contract, by 0.5% in 2013, declining in the first half of the year and rebounding in the second half.
If we're going to have a debate about this, let's at least make it an honest argument.
The CBO estimated that the uncertainty over the "fiscal cliff" might reduce GDP by up to 0.5% in the second half of 2012. President Obama and Democrats pushed to remove some uncertainty by extending the Bush tax cuts for 98% of us. Republicans voted against it. For what purpose?
Many Republicans call President Obama and his supporters Socialists. This, I brand as nothing short of ponderous attacks.
The passage of the Affordable Healthcare Act is a prime example of this conservative tactic in labeling their political opponents. Although there are some serious omissions in this bill, no Democratic commentator, or even President Obama, himself, has ever said that the Affordable Healthcare Act in its original form did not need adjustments and tweaking.
However, most Republicans continue to work on repeal while hammering on Democrats as being
"Socialists". I find this extremely offensive.
In Socialism, the government owns the company providing the goods or services and also controls the establishment. In a socialistic health system, the government would municipalize the entire industry. In other words, all hospitals, clinics and other health care facilities would be owned by the government. Also, all the employees (including the doctors) would be government employees.
Obama's health care plan is not Socialism; it keeps our current private sector system, but makes it more accessible.
This is a case of the extreme in the Republican Party, calling the moderates in the Democratic Party, extreme. The following are clear cut examples:
Sean Hannity, host of Fox News Channel's Hannity show, stated the following during an interview;
"Obama is a socialist. If you take over banks, if you take over car companies, if you take over financial institutions, the way that he has - now the health care system. If you're going to use every crooked deal that you can come up with to get a bill like that passed - most recently the health care bill - that is by definition, if you look up the dictionary definition of socialism, this is it."
Another prime example is:
Michelle Bachmann, stated the following during a speech at the Luce Policy Institute; "We need to repeal the government takeover of healthcare with Obamacare, it is a must do.
We cannot negotiate with Obamacare, because it cannot be negotiated with, it needs to be 100% repealed...
We have to be committed to defunding Obamacare to make sure that it doesn't get instituted in this country...
Because socialized medicine, or the government takeover of healthcare, really is the lynchpin of socialism in any nation, that's what the threat of Obamacare is for America; because it completely re-tools the way we do business in this country."
In America, sooner or later, one extremist always cancels out another. In politics of today, this is exactly what the differing factions of Republicans are doing to each other.
Bradley, even more frightening is the fact that socialism, in various forms, has been a major part of the American economic and social system for about 80-years now. That would make every Republican president and politician since that time, a socialist too. It's these low IQ low information voters who are willingly misled because of blind hatred for count chocula, that cannot grasp this fact. It's guys like Heretic who absolutely loathe socialism, entitlements, anchor babies, dream actors, afirmative action, etc., and yet he is a huge fan of UNLV sports. A socialist bastion of librul indrocdrination! We all know how much teabaggers love the public education system. But hey as long as they have a good basketball team, that socialism is OK! Honestly Chap, from the way these people throw around the term, I don't think that many teabaggers even know what socialism is. But it sure does sound scary!
If Rommney wins then if what the letter writer is saying is true then it means the country has moved to the extreme right.
Rommney will have a mandate to take extreme right actions.
Thanks for the 411.
The problem is: the party isn't just represented by the Presidential candidate.
There's also the Senate and House races. What have we seen? The tea party has demanded nothing less than total obedience. This was evident in 2010, and it's evident today.
In 2010, you had extremists like Sharron Angle, who Mike voted for, as well as extremists like Christine O'Donnell and Joe Miller.
Rather than learn the lesson, the GOP has doubled down.
Now we have Todd "legitimate rape" Akin and Joe "No exception for the life of the mother!" Walsh.
And let's not forget Paul Ryan, the Vice Presidential candidate for the GOP, who doesn't believe in a rape exception when outlawing abortion, and worked with Todd Akin in the House in trying to narrow the definition of rape.
What about Ted Cruz? He won the Senate primary in Texas and is all but certain to be elected, and yet he favors the closure of the Departments of Energy, Commerce and Education, along with the Transportation Security Administration and, naturally, the I.R.S. He says he is very worried that the United Nations is trying to ban golf courses and paved roads.
The far-right posters can't deny that the GOP has become too extreme on many positions.
@RefNV,
Your point points to a failed and broken Congress. Congress is controlled by Republicans, not Democrats. The problems are coming from the "extreme side of the Republican Party," not Democrats.
The CBO Director Doug Elmendorf says, "the economy would contract by 0.5 percent in calendar year 2013 if the George W. Bush-era tax rates expire and automatic spending cuts are implemented."
This statement speaks volumes, and tell us if both taxes and spending cut are not addressed by this Congress the Nation could revert into a recession.
Who fault would that be? Can you say Grover Norquist? Or the TEA Party? And throw in John Bohener and Mitch McConnell, with huge dose of Eric Cantor. It's the Republican that is the "extreme" party my friend.
As my young friends say when there is confusion, "Don't get it twisted."
Mr. Burgess is correct. Republicans are supposed to be the party of "small government"--the party that encourages "freedom" and allows Americans to make their own choices and live and let live.
But now Republicans have become the party of absolutely massive government--a government that goes far beyond collecting taxes and providing basic services but a government that wants to re-combine church (Christianity) and state, restrict my freedom, tell me how to think and what is and isn't okay.
Since the election of Barack Obama, common sense has left the GOP completely. It is the party of anger, fear and intolerance.The GOP has become a haven for bigots and misogynists. Republicans are openly hostile to immigrants, gays, women, Muslims, minorities, and pretty much anyone who isn't a white male evangelical Christian. The "conservative movement" has become a rage and fear machine more focused on fostering mass hysteria than finding solutions.
I would like to vote for a fiscally conservative candidate next month but, due to my disgust with the GOP, I will be voting for Obama.
"The major problem with the present-day GOP is that it's moved so far to the right that it's boxed in, scaring away many Republican moderates and independents."
__________
And this guy knows this how? From every poll I have seen this race is neck and neck. We already have one Democrat party, we don't need another.
Brooke October 19, 2012 7:08 a.m.
Brooke,
You stated, "Since the election of Barack Obama, common sense has left the GOP completely. It is the party of anger, fear and intolerance.The GOP has become a haven for bigots and misogynists. Republicans are openly hostile to immigrants, gays, women, Muslims, minorities, and pretty much anyone who isn't a white male evangelical Christian. The "conservative movement" has become a rage and fear machine more focused on fostering mass hysteria than finding solutions."
******************************
I totally agree with you and enjoyed reading your comment.
I have never seen, felt, read, or heard such hatred in my entire life.
In 2008, I voted for Barack Obama. On Saturday, I will proudly cast my vote for President Barack Obama and the Democrats once again.
As a NP and former Republican, I believe that the Republican Party that I once belonged to is gone forever, replaced by the radical Tea Party.
I find the new Republican Party (TEA Party) frightening. I am also saddened by the profound radical beliefs held by many Americans who support the TEA Party.
Democrats have it tough these days. a 2010 Gallup poll linked below, 53% of democrats had a positive image of "socialism," while 41% had a negative image which essentially means they have to put a negative spin on capitalism in order to rally its left-wing base to the voting booth this year.
Democrats have to defend unions corrupt practice of extorting companies in order to artificially inflate wages and pensions all at the expense of taxpayers and consumers. Democrats have to defend entitlement programs they passed through congress but miscalculated the program's cost which are now bankrupting our country. Democrats also have to defend Obama for not getting our economy going and creating jobs at recovery pace equal to past recession recoveries.
It's tough being a Democrat so it's understandable why they're playing the distraction game by attacking capitalism in order to rally its socialist left wing base of its party.
A President should understand economics, business and the important role private investment plays in growing our economy. A President with pro-growth business policies will spur private investment, create jobs and grow our economy again. The anti-business Obama, unions and Occupiers do not understand private investment and the role it plays in creating jobs and expanding our economy. With 17% fewer tax filers compared to 2008 and with 23 million unemployed/under-employed Americans it is easy to see the need to grow the economic pie, not create larger pieces of the pie for those who remain employed. Obama has not served the needs of the unemployed by creating an unstable environment for businesses to expand and entrepreneurship. We need to vote the anti-business Obama out of office to get our jobless Americans working again. It's been 4 depressing years for the jobless.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/125645/Social...
@ RefNV,
.....The anti-business Obama, unions and Occupiers do not understand private investment and the role it plays in creating jobs and expanding our economy. With 17% fewer tax filers compared to 2008........
ReFreeman, calm down, calm down. You remind me of the IT tech tangled up with Cat-5 wire---your moving trying to untangle the wire, but no work is being done.
Look, it's obvious your excited and have a lot of information. If your from Mitt Romney tell why your for Mitt Romney and give details.
@REVNV,
I know what will calm you down, check out the market today!
Kepi,
I care about the 23 million unemployed/underemployed in this country. This group has suffered enough under the anti-business Obama.
RefNV and many of his cohorts just don't get it.
They refuse to see the hard evidence that's out there that says that we got ourselves in our current mess by voting for George W Bush & his group of "corporate criminals" not once, but twice...
George junior was a disaster as president and the deep, deep hole that he put this country in has us in our present demise.
Tax cuts for the rich, two wars that we could not afford and unbalanced budget after unbalanced budget were at the core of the Bush administration's way of doing things.....
Add to the fact that the GOP refuses to co-operate with President Obama on even the smallest piece of legislation that's designed to help us economically and one starts to understand what the problem really is...
The letter writer is 100% correct. The present day Republican Party has been hijacked by the extreme right-wing Tea Party and many long time moderate & independent Republicans have been left out of the mix..
Yes, I agree with the letter writer. The GOP best move back toward the center politically or face the possibility of becoming a mere page in a history book... As the letter writer said, "a dinosaur."
Capitalism has put a negative spin on itself. We are running neck and neck with Turkey and Chile in terms of wealth inequality. The massive spread of damaging hybrid financial instruments has cost people trillions. Half of Americans are dying broke and the things people need to survive and prosper cost a fortune.
http://www.nidataplus.com/lfeus1.htm
The 23 million number is hog wash. The difference between pre recession employment and the current time frame is a few million workers. We will be lucky to add 23 million workers in the next 25 years. Look at the above. It takes a very long time to dramatically increase the work force.
Good letter Mr. Burgess, thank you.
You right wingers crack me up. You attempt to put a spin on the GOP moving so far right by blaming Democrats, but those within the party are complaining. As noted by other posters, Jeb Bush and other life long Republicans warned those on the far right, but they are being ignored.
Back in 2010 life long Republican Russell King wrote an open letter to the GOP:
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2010/03/r...
Apparently it had no effect on the lemmings being led by pundits and whack jobs toward the cliffs.
Gerry writes "The 23 million number is hog wash. The difference between pre recession employment and the current time frame is a few million workers".
Gerry didn't acknowledge the under-employed. He didn't even give the unemployed number of 12,088 million. He didn't acknowledge those who simply stopped looking for work and dropped from the BLS statistics. And he certainly didn't share with the readers that in 2009, Obama had 59.3% of the population working and now has only 58.7% of the population working. A real economic recovery would have 62%-63% of the population working again by now.
Why are democrats ignoring unemployed/under-employed Americans?
http://bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea01.htm
When I hear the word "extremism," I think of four more years with Obama that we really, really can't afford. It will take several years to undo the extreme problems he's created in the last four years.
In reply to "JahReb"; excellent points on your post!
I was raised by a strict Republican family back in the olden days. The list of extremism from this "conservative coterie" just seemed endless.
Trust when I say I'm well accustomed to dealing with individuals of this nature.
This aspect usually holds true; "When a weak minded person is brainwashed, any probability of obtaining forms of civility from this type individual is highly unlikely." <B. Chapline>
@kepi...
"As a NP and former Republican, I believe that the Republican Party that I once belonged to is gone forever, replaced by the radical Tea Party.
I find the new Republican Party (TEA Party) frightening. I am also saddened by the profound radical beliefs held by many Americans who support the TEA Party."
EXACT same situation here. I am truly frightened of this new party . They are so scared, so self-righteous, so ill-informed, and so dogmatic that nothing you can say will change their minds. They don't appear to think for themselves but instead they just repeat the rhetoric they learn from Limbaugh. They are uninformed about the things they say they believe in and uninformed about the things they oppose.
I think the worst thing about the new "conservatives" is the complete lack of empathy they seem to have. They are quick to place blame and they are extremely punitive.
Larry, please don't clue the Republicans in on this. After they get trounced in this election, the Teabaggers and idiots on Fox News are going to say that the problem was that Romney was too moderate and that the Republicans should become more conservative. Lets all let them believe that. It will guarantee Democratic control of government for a generation!
Mr. Freeman.. The unemployment rate in this country has never been zero. It has averaged about 4% to 5% since they started keeping records. It's currently about 8% which is a few points above trend.
The underemployed crap is only something that comes up at election time. The concept has only been around since,"International Conference of Labour Statisticians of 1982". You're always going to have people that claim they are underemployed, underpaid and don't have the benefits they deserve.
No leader has ever been able to bring in economy to 0% unemployment outside of wartime. If you think Romney can do that you're living in phantasmagoria.
Gerry, what you're saying is that you only care about 7 million unemployed Americans but the other 5 million unemployed we shouldn't worry about? You're making the unemployed/under-employed just an arbitrary stat but they are people who have been struggling these last 4 years. All democrats care about is class warfare and could care less about helping the unemployed/under-employed.
I think it is great there is all this right wing extremism in the Republican Party.
This may be the thing that brings about a credible third party for the next election. They will have 4 years to organize, plan, and launch Congressional candidates for all 51 states, and a Presidential & VP candidate.
Also, it gives the opposite side of the future President the opportunity to raise hell for 4 years.
Should be entertaining to say the least.
Extremism is locked in fear from any side. Sometime hate is added to the fear.
It is easy to get caught up in it when surrounded by it. They see ghosts and their imaginations take flight into more fear. It is also like a virus, maybe worse than HIV.
When people have little else in their lives they become vulnerable to the virus and turn into the frightening image in their nightmares.
Both sides have had experience with extremism, and today's extremists are so filled with fear that they are in their own prisons.
No matter who wins, we all must live on and do the best we can. That is the only thing any of us can do.
No matter what my or your views are, I only wish good for the USA, but have to be honest and say I do see problems ahead for the majority of people, whether Obama or Romney is elected. No escaping that.
I have an idea. Let's have a real good old fashioned range war. Round up all the right wingers and fascists, and all the left winger's and socialists, in each others imagination, and have a good old 'Lord of the Flies' event.
Sell tickets to the rest and give the profits to pay down the debt.
Keep the children away, because we don't want to stunt any growth to maturity.
The rest of us can, I hope, have a good dialog, free of the virus. Sometimes, we have to take a break to make sure the virus doesn't overtake us.
According to all the kool-aid people posting, Romney is an extreme right-winger and the Republican party is an extreme right-wing party.
So if the nation elects Romney then it means the country is an extreme right-wing nation.
Romney will have a mandate to implement extreme right-wing policies.
Thanks for the 411.
Re Freeman) Oct. 19, 2012 9:36 a.m.
STATED:
Kepi,
I care about the 23 million unemployed/underemployed in this country. This group has suffered enough under the anti-business Obama.
*****************************
During the last several months, this is really the first unsolicited comment, I have received from you. Since I do not know you, I will not conclude that you were suggesting that I didn't care.
I think that most of us are all very passionate people who care deeply about our country and the American People. I strongly believe that if we didn't care so deeply, we would not be spending most of our day expressing our opinion on this very important upcoming election.
I am sure we all have or know someone who has suffered from this recession (e.g. family, friends, co workers, etc..)
Mr. Freeman, I do believe that you care. I want you to know that I too care just as much as you do. I never intended to continue on with this discussion room, but it became a habit and a way to express my opinions.
My family was/are all Republicans so I know where you are coming from because I have heard it all my life. But, in 2008 I changed and began a research project so that I could discuss issues with my family.
I firmly believe that we both care very deeply about the American People, their/our future, and the country that we love so much. The difference is that we have opposing views on who is the right person to put us back on track.
I never thought for a moment that you didn't care about people. I read your comment on how you continue to help people. I know you have a kind heart.
So, I would like to conclude by saying we both want the same thing, but we have opposing views about who can actually fix our problems and get us back on the right track.
Yes, Sgt Rock, and the same for Obama, according to the standard you express, and in keeping with the "extremes" that have been described here.
In either case, no matter who is elected, most people will do the best they can under the circumstances. Some will be unhappy. Others will follow their extremist views, while the others put cotton in their ears.
@Brooke,
I agree with you 100%. The scary part is that people are actually buying into their propaganda technique.
Thank you for your comments I really enjoyed reading both of them.
Peacelily,
Nice job :)
FreedomRadio - "It will take several years to undo the extreme problems he's created in the last four years."
Exactly what extreme problems? Can you list them?
@kepi,
An interesting post kepi, I know several Republicans who were raised in Republican households who left the party recently. Why? It was the extremism that started in 2008 when the GOP fractionalized, and since then has gotten worse. These are the very same people who watched Fox News and listened to Limbaugh on a regular basis to get their information. They've noticed that some of the so-called news they received were blatant lies and distortions after fact checking. These people can no longer dicuss politics with their families because it usually ends in an argument.
The Republican Party is not the party of Rockerfeller, Goldwater, or even Nixon. It is dominated by extremists (or feigned extremists like Romney) pandering to the Teabaggers. The Republicans will need to become fiscal conservatives (they are not now) and social moderates is they have any hope in the future.
Kepi, My wife and I have both left the Republican party for the exact same reasons the you have stated in your post.I'm sure there are many more people out there that have done the same thing. The facts speak for thenselves.Keep up with the good posting.
Peacelily @ 3:07 P.M.
TOO funny! Laugh out Loud Funny. I think I have cotton balls just in case :)
Sam,
You are such a delight!!!
Brooke Logan made an excellent point when he/she said:
"Since the election of Barack Obama, common sense has left the GOP completely. It is the party of anger, fear and intolerance.The GOP has become a haven for bigots and misogynists. Republicans are openly hostile to immigrants, gays, women, Muslims, minorities, and pretty much anyone who isn't a white male evangelical Christian.
The "conservative movement" has become a rage and fear machine more focused on fostering mass hysteria than finding solutions."
Wow! How can any one say it any better than what Brooke said?
Thank you Brooke.......Wonderful post!
Brooke,
El_Lobo is correct and I would like to thank you once again for your fantastic posts today. GREAT job!!!!
kepi, Vernos, notacon, sam,
Love your posts. I am another ex-Republican who left the right wing extremism for God and humanity, maybe a little earlier than some of you. We are all members of the XRep Club.
My journey in faith changed my perspective considerably.
Important disclosure: God isn't owned by anyone. Neither, Republicans, nor Democrats, nor any politics, nor any race, nor any ideology or philosophy, nor any particular religion or denomination, nor any nation.
It is we who are the cause and effect of everything else on Earth, for good or bad.
Think of extremists as stationary lights in a dark tunnel. They help those passing through to make it to the other side to the real light.
In that real light, I learned to evaluate on the basis of how people effect the lives of other people, and are stewards of all else we have the privilege to enjoy and sustains us.
There have been some exceptional examples in the last century, and all were focused on caring, peace and justice for people.
These courageous examples were immersed in Love. Their passion was for all people, through the unconditional Love they had for all.
They are the true models that we can be inspired by to become more than the power game politics offers, more than what ideologies or philosophies offer.
The great examples embodied so much more with Love as their inspiration, guide, and strength.
So, regardless of who wins the election, it is the People who will find ways to continue doing good, with unconditional Love as their inspiration. With Love, we have courage to face all and do all.
Who knows, perhaps more Republicans will join in unity with Democrats, without the labels, and work for the good of people, instead of power.
Btw, I experienced the same family arguments. LOL
VernosB Oct. 19, 2012 3:38 p.m.
STATED:
@kepi,
An interesting post kepi, I know several Republicans who were raised in Republican households who left the party recently. Why? It was the extremism that started in 2008 when the GOP fractionalized, and since then has gotten worse. These are the very same people who watched Fox News and listened to Limbaugh on a regular basis to get their information. They've noticed that some of the so-called news they received were blatant lies and distortions after fact checking. These people can no longer dicuss politics with their families because it usually ends in an argument.
*********************************
Vernos, @ 3:38 p.m.
My reasons for leaving the Republican Party are very similar to Brooke, Bradley, and Sam, who all posted on this string. Brooke pretty much summed it up.
I am not a Democrat, however, since 2008 I have voted a straight Democrat ticket. I support President Barack Obama and the Democrats and intend to vote for them tomorrow! In 2008, both my husband and I left the Republican Party.
The Republican Party that I grew up with is gone and gone forever; replaced with a radical right-wing party called, The Tea Party.
I believe that this new radical Tea Party exemplifies the word extreme. I think they are mean-spirited, hateful, not accepting of others that are not like-minded, and represent everything I am against. They lack comprise, compassion, class, dignity, and respect for others. I find them to act like schoolyard bullies and use various forms of intimidation to get their way. They frighten me because of their deep-rooted hatred for others not in their circle.
I am concerned that they are not interested in comprise and it is their way or the highway, which is not good for ALL of the American People. They frighten me because they are myopic.
When they cannot win a logical argument, they resort to name-calling. I like to think I belong to ARP (Anti Republican Party), we only have two members :) Yes, I would consider my family very conservative and yes it has caused problems.
I used the same talking points that many conservatives use in this discussion room until I finally shed them all just recently.
And yes, I watched Fox News every day.
For all of the conservatives who take this comment personally and want to berate me because of my personal opinion and beliefs: save it, I am not interested. I am not the least bit interested in any communique relative to my opinions stated here.
The beliefs and personal opinions stated above are my own and I am sticking to them :)
The above are my personal opinions about the Tea Party as a whole and not directed toward any single individual.
Peacelily,
I LOVED your post. I will save it and read it often.
Thank you so much for what you do every day; thank you for your enlightening comments. You are truly an inspiration. You have touched my heart.
Good Night and Thank You!
Carmine,
"'m not concerned with whether the republican party as we know it will be around in another 25 years. I'm concerned that if we have another 4 years with the same leaders at the helm, we won't have a country as we know around in 2016."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We don't even have the country I knew during my prior years. We have had about 3 or 4 transitions throughout my lifetime, regardless of parties, and sometimes as a result of who was in the Whitehouse. In fact, some of those residents caused people to flee to new transitions.
Many people have grown through the transitions, and that growth has made things better, in spite of those who could not make the transitions. However, only those who transition can see the "better".
We have something akin to parallel worlds right here on earth. What one believes and sees depends on which one we are in. The one of Love or the one of Fear.
Perhaps it was fear that kept some from transitioning into a better world. They remain is a bubble of fear.
I would hope that there would be more transitions to a transformation the would be centered in love, peace, justice, and unity between people, and shared efforts to protect our Earth, which sustains our lives.
kepi, thank you, and you warm my heart too. Good night!
gerry, you always give such good information and insights. Thank you very much.
Since the Republicans are pushed to the right by its extremists and the Democrats to the left by theirs, we have what I call 'Wizard of Oz politics': The Republicans are the party without a heart, and the Democrats are the party without a brain. The Libertarians have perhaps the best agenda (fiscally conservative and socially liberal) but they have been successfully marginalized by R's and D's as kooks not deserving of credibility and support. In my view, they deserve a closer look. And in the meantime, a moderate Mitt is our best option in this election.
Michael,
I really don't know what Romney is. He has changed depending on who will support his goals.
Romney has been liberal and a conservative moving moderate, having been a conservative to get nominated.
Can you imagine him getting the Republican nomination if he were still a liberal? LOL
When he was a liberal, he was running for office in a liberal state.
You consider him a moderate, so I guess he is for you. For Tea Party people, I guess he is a conservative. He certainly wouldn't be considered a liberal.
I can't help but ask, what does he really believe, if anything? I haven't a clue.
It is the same with questions like, what loopholes will he close?
What deductions will he close, regardless of his impromptu, offhand speculative example of the "bucket".
Add to that, how will he offset his enormous debt increasing plan of tax cuts? Plus adding to the military budget? Cutting spending? Cutting what?
Will he get the rich who are sitting on trillions of dollars to part with some of that to create jobs? Or will he simply ask them to start buying to boost consumerism?
What will happen if when he isn't President, will they go back to sitting on their trillions? Is that moderate?
Why would he think privatizing a safety net is good, especially when it is to move to the place that is behind the mess we have now?
Does he really give a damn about people?
Why does he think Obamacare is bad when it is Romneycare? Why was the mandate bad in Obamacare, but OK in Romneycare? Was that his ticket to nomination by the right?
Why does he seem to want get us into another another war, cold or hot, when we still have two that aren't paid for?
Does he plan to use the military industrial complex to give a false image of economic health? Is he planning on capitalizing on this through some scheme that is not covered in his Presidential trust, if elected?
Why is he planning on facilitating the increase the offshoring of jobs and facilitating more tax haven investments for corporations?
Another question I have, is Mr. Romney planning on cutting jobs and sinking wages lower? That is a very real possibility given his business experience. Certainly, this is very likely as he does a slash and burn in the federal government.
I think Romney's history shows that he will embrace Ayn Rand's objectivism as a pragmatic approach to governance of the US, and his VP choice of Ryan supports that possibility.
Romney still has investments and pension funds in Bain Capital, so he is still profitting off of the companies in China that have removed jobs for Americans. Will he do more of that in his plans for more Trade Agreements?
The problem with taking such action that Romney proposes is the effects, and what can result from the effects.
I seriously question whether Romney actually has any ability to care or have empathy for people who are not wealthy or Mormon, his kind.
Randall,
IMO, Libertarians are, in general, simply more liberal Republicans. That is why they will vote for Romney instead of their own candidate.
Maybe Whigs are more moderate Republicans, or more traditional Republicans.
If what I state is erroneous, so is categorizing all Democrats as liberals.
This labeling game is so stupid in the first place. Yet, we all fall into the trap, which serves the corrupt political system so well.
Regardless, of who you support, I respect your decision and don't want to disparage you for that decision.
Larry.....GREAT LETTER AND SPOT-ON!
GOP extremism is not ever the way to go.
Not now, not ever.
Yes, the crazy teabaggers took over the republican
party.
And romney/ryan are both extremists.
Some republicans still think that they can fool
us but that's not going to happen.
Republicans have finally gone off the deep end.
I believe their extremist party is finished for
good.
And in every way, Romney has proven to be more
extreme and worse than George Bush.
Romney said that he was the paster of his church
for 8 years.
He was also the Biship of his church.
I believe that no paster or biship should EVER
be president of the United States.
This is TOO EXTREME for the vast diversity of
American beliefs.
This is to big of a conflict of religious interest
for Romney to be president.
The fact that he has said that the Supreme Court
should overturn ROE VRS. WADE IS PROOF!!!
Brad......
Your comment about the Affordable Care Act is
stop on.
"Obama's health care plan is not Socialism, it
keeps our current private sector system but makes
it more accessible".
FOUR MORE YEARS FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!
Brad....
Sorry, should be spot on.
And Romney wanting to turn Medicare into a voucher
system is more proof of extremism.
We don't want or need this extreme right-winger.
This guy is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
And what about Romney using a special Mormon
deferment to avoid serving in the U.S. Military
during the Viet Nam War?
He did a two year Mormon mission riding his bike
around France insted of serving in the military.
None of his five sons served in the military
either.
Teamster,
Interesting comment about Romney in government with his role in his church.
I don't know if he still holds a lay pastor position. I don't think that would be such a problem, but I don't now Mormonism, so I can't judge. I leave that to the more informed.
He doesn't speak much about his religion or his role. I guess it might bring more scrutiny.
I remember when the Pope demanded that all priests withdraw from political office, and Father Drinan retired from his House seat. He had kept his religious beliefs separate from his role as a Representative in the House, representing all people.
Maybe Romney can do the same, I don't know.
Everyone with an active faith is influenced by it, whether in government or not, and some more than others. We can see that in the most extreme cases absolutely trying to inflict their beliefs on others through legislation.
It would seem a Constitutional issue when it goes to the extreme.
"I don't know if he still holds a lay pastor position"
I am not an authority on LDS/Mormonism. But, I know more than most about the religion.
Governor Romney held a position of bishop [in charge of a ward] and stake president [in charge of several wards]. Neither is forever and is entirely volunteer. As a political figure, either campaigning or in office, Mormons cannot hold a Church position.
WRT the military, Mormons can and do serve if they choose to. We have a volunteer army and have since Viet Nam. Noone has to go into the military. Governor Romney, during Viet Nam, was granted a religious deferment to serve his mission in France. He had no say in where he did his Church service, nor do Mormons today. [And by the way, they pay a monthly amount to do it. They are not paid during their service.] When Governor Romney finished his mission, the war was winding down and NO TROOPS were being sent to Southeast Asia based on a moratorium that President Nixon instituted in 1971. The moratorium continued until all US troops were withdrawn from Viet Nam.
CarmineD
FWIW and WRT Mormonism as a Christian religion: Every religious leader I talk to and read, EVERY, Catholic, Protestant, Jew and Muslim, say unequivocally that Mormonism is a Christian religion.
CarmineD
peacelily....
Thank you for your post at 9:18 pm...
You said it just as it needs to be said! I copied it & sent it to a couple friends of mine who agree with what I believe and will, with out question, enjoy reading your post..
Thanks again...
Oop's.....I best be carefull.....RefNV will claim that I'm nothing more than a cheerleader for the liberals on this board!
Shame on me!
My brother-in-law is a devout practicing Morman. He served a tour in the US Air Force AND served a tour as a missionary before he married. Romney cannot use his mission as an excuse for having avoided military service. Others of his faith and generation did both with satisfaction. Romney did not simply because he saw no potential payout.
In reply to "Teamster"; amazing isn't it? Socialism is defined, and clearly shown not to be a practice of Democrats. What do the Republicans here in this forum do? They continue to dehydrate while encircled around a pond of clear and pure crystal clear drinking water, but have no sense in how to bend over and take a drink. What a strange breed of animal!!!
Carmine......
Romney's religious beliefs are a secret for a reason.
If voters voters knew them, they wouldn't vote
for him in a million years.
Strict Mormons believe that when they die they
will rule their OWN PLANET!
Romney also doesn't believe in a women's
reproduction rights.
If Jesus were here today, he would read Romney
and all other greedy republicans the riot act.
AND Jesus would walk with PRESIDENT OBAMA.
Brad.....
Amen.
Bchap writes "In reply to "Teamster"; amazing isn't it? Socialism is defined, and clearly shown not to be a practice of Democrats. What do the Republicans here in this forum do?"
BChap, the three components of capitalism is private enterprise of services/products, a market exchange and a monetary system/bank credit. Those who silently favor socialism are either putting up barriers or presenting dis-incentives for these components to work smoothly and effectively. If they disrupt these components enough they can promote socialism more openly supporting it as the only option left that might work. It's that simple.
Hmmmmm........What's all that noise coming from the right?
I guess it's nothing more than RefNv's giving us his view of the world......his take on capitalism & how the liberals are determined to destroy the system.
I wonder where he got those strange ideas from? FIXED NEWS? Rush LImbaugh? Sean Hannity?
RefNV said:
".....the three components of capitalism is private enterprise of services/products, a market exchange and a monetary system/bank credit. Those who silently favor socialism are either putting up barriers or presenting dis-incentives for these components to work smoothly and effectively."
It appears that RefNV is again painting with a very broad brush.....nothing new there!
I'm a Democrat & I happen to believe in capitalism. I also believe that some programs that we presently have are socialistic in nature (which I'm in favor of...) and that's what is beautiful about our system...
I believe what we have is called a "mixed economy," with both capitalism & socialism playing a very important role in our society...
Our "mixed economy" has been around for a good long while & if history is any type of guide for the future, more socialistic programs will be added to what we currently have...
The conservatives will fight the adding of other socialistic program but in the end they will lose...that's what history tells us!
I know such people as RefNV, Future, Carmine, houstonjack, and Casler don't want to admit what I've said is true, but it is!
The adding of various social programs doesn't mean that we will completely lose capitalism as we know it, (far from it...) but it does mean that we will simply tweak the system as we along....
Actually, that's what has been going on since the passage of the Social Security Act in 1935.
My guess is that a hundred years from now, the United States and China will be very much alike with both nations enjoying a mixed economy and with China putting a great deal more emphasis on human rights...
If Romney is elected come November 6th, he says that he will repeal Obamacare. He might get that done, but guess what? Doing that will be a case of the right-wingers winning one small battle in a continuing war.
Sooner or later, a national health care system that covers every single American will be in place in this country...
History tell us that.....
El Lobo,
Our economy requires an annual GDP growth rate of 3.2% just to supply jobs for new entrants into the workforce. Our current GDP growth rate is 1.3%. This means our economy can't produce the jobs necessary for new entrants into the workforce and has essentially left the 12 to 14 million jobless Americans permanently unemployed. 50% of college grads can't even find work in their chosen field. Since 1948, the US GDP Annual Growth Rate averaged 3.23% compared to Europe's .39%. The drag on Europe's GDP is entitlement costs. The democrats solution to all this? Tax top wage earners more resulting in approx $60 billion extra tax revenue per year. What is our budget deficit this year? $1,100 billion. Some solution. Reform entitlements to bring down the cost of entitlements? No solution. Reduce Deficit spending? No solution. Do democrats want to continue current conditions that are creating anemic economic growth causing permanent job loss for the unemployed? Apparently yes. Democrats simply aren't being honest with the American people. Obama has failed to present a plan to reduce our deficit and bend the cost of entitlements downward which will only continue our economic malaise. Obama doesn't understand business and economics and the last 4 years have proven this fact. Obama squandered an opportunity to get our economy going again as he had majorities in both the house & senate for two years but instead he doubled our budget deficits and created a government tax & spend environment causing businesses to not invest and consumers with means to not spend. He demonized his predecessor, his opponent and half of the country wants him out of office. For many, November can't get here fast enough. As I've stated before, Americans know that businesses create jobs, Obama, unions and Occupiers do not. The former community organizer Obama is anti-business which is holding back our economic recovery. Obama had his chance and he failed America.
RefNV......
You're so out of touch with reality it isn't even
funny.
PRESIDENT OBAMA ALREADY FIXED THE HUGE MESS THE
GREEDY REPUBLICAN PARTY CREATED.
It was the republican party that FAILED.
We're still living some of that proof.
But we're geting better everyday.
No more republican con-jobs.
President Obama will easily be re-elected.
Teamster,
I find it interesting that both you and El Lobo use dots (....) when addressing LVS posters.
Examples:
RefNV.....
Carmine......
Must just be a strange coincident.
Mr. Freeman says, "Those who silently favor socialism are either putting up barriers or presenting dis-incentives for these components to work smoothly and effectively. If they disrupt these components enough they can promote socialism more openly supporting it as the only option left that might work. It's that simple."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In reply to Mr. Freeman; Republicans love to utilize propaganda type hoopla in frightening many American people into believing that social programs are directing our country towards communism and eventual ruins. This couldn't be further from the truth.
The fact is, when it comes to the capitalism model in our present day, corporate executives and their managers believe that overextending and underpaying their employees for their work is the key to capitalist development.
Our free society brings forth labor unions and Democratic politicians to offset these wrongdoings to the middle and lower socioeconomic classes of our society. Republicans like Mr. Freeman state that these actions are disruptions to capitalism.
I got news for you; Mr. Freeman slavery was NOT destroyed by capitalism. In fact, slavery flourished under capitalism. It is true to say that slavery and capitalism have a lot in common. The only hope in our modern day for middle and lower socioeconomic classes of our country are the Democratic politicians and their power bases that work in fairness to humanity.
Should the Mitt Romney's of America regain majority power and the Oval Office, the unregulated quests of capitalism will reclaim the path to their utterly heinous acts of greed that will ultimately prove slavery and capitalism are of the same makings.
RefNV said:
"Our economy requires an annual GDP growth rate of 3.2% just to supply jobs for new entrants into the workforce. Our current GDP growth rate is 1.3%. This means our economy can't produce the jobs necessary for new entrants into the workforce and has essentially left the 12 to 14 million jobless."
Link please for your rant? Where did you get all those figures?
The bottom line is that the economy is growing. Not as fast as we all would like but it's growing. The Republicans have worked 24/7 to keep the economy in the crapper.
Everything that Obama has been for, the GOP has been against. What did the leaders of the GOP say immediately after Obama was elected in 2008?
Do I need to tell you? I shouldn't have to...
Romney is a "fat cat" who will first & fore most take care of his rich buddies. He's all "smoke & mirrors." He refuses to give the details of what he plans to do...
Paul Ryan is even worse than Romney when it comes to giving details. He, in so many words, just says I don't have time to tell you the details but just trust me....
Many of the economist who have looked at Romney 5-point plan say that it will not do what he says it will..
Any success that he had as the governor of Massachusetts was due to the fact that he had to get along & work closely with a Democrat controlled legislature....
Even then, he was very unpopular among Massachusetts voters. That why he didn't run for re-election. He knew that he couldn't win...
Giving tax breaks to the rich or even keeping the rates where they are will not produce jobs. If that was the case, we would be currently swimming in new jobs.
In other words, "trickle down economics" doesn't work. George W Bush proved that...
The GOP isn't really interested in turning the economy around. Their primary goal is to slash the hell out of the various entitlement programs & in some cases destroy them.
Giving Social Security to Wall Street would be the end of the program. Using vouchers for Medicare would create a situation where millions and millions of American would be left with out health care coverage...
Romney changes what he says daily when talking about Obamacare. One day he says that he will repeal the whole thing....Another day he says that he will keep certain parts of it & repeal the rest.
In short, Romney is "king flip-flop." He will say what ever his immediate audience wants to hear.
He's George W Bush on steroids. He far more dangerous than "clueless George" and a whole lot richer. He didn't create jobs when he was running Bain Capital.......at least not jobs in this country.
Of course to quote Romney is to tell what Romney is all about..."I love to fire people."
Wake-up RefNV....He's not what this country needs.
In reply to "El_Lobo"; a fantastic post that speaks the truth.
However, we have made a mistake in addressing our replies directly to Mr. Freeman.
For, "It is a waste of time to attempt to teach a parochial student of corrupted capitalist traits the human rights and dignity of the less fortunate in a free society." <B. Chapline>
RefNV.................
YES, both El_Lobo and myself use dots.
It's not that strange.
We are also older and wiser than you.
We are both on the correct side of life.
We have also been on this site longer than you
have.
We have seniority over you.
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!
El_Lobo.........
YES, great post again!
The truth will win again.
LOL
Dots as an issue......OMH!
Still LOL!
Bchap,
I didn't expect you to understand that a more expensive government along with a huge government debt load would eventually lead to higher taxes for everyone. Roughly, individual savings rate was 5%-10% before Clinton's term. Corporate profits average 5%-10% as well. Our higher government spending requires higher taxes which lowers personal savings and business profits and leads to a slower economic growth rate and fewer jobs. We have 17% fewer tax filers and the top income bracket makes 34% less than in 2008 which is the main reason we collect now 14.5% tax revenue to GDP compared to 18% pre-recession. Our government debt is piling up at over $1 trillion dollars a year. Logic says we need to get the 12-14 unemployed Americans working again. And we need government tax & spend policies where private investment increases and Americans with means start spending again. Obama doesn't have a plan to do either. What is Obama's next latest spending(borrow from China and spend here) program to get our economy moving again? Recessions occur every 6 to 8 years, should Americans just hunker down and hold onto their money knowing another recession is just around the corner as current government tax & spend policies thwart economic recovery? The anti-business Obama doesn't have a solution to speed up our economic recovery. He had 4 years to expand our economy and didn't get the job done. It's time for a change.
"Carmine......
Romney's religious beliefs are a secret for a reason.
If voters voters knew them, they wouldn't vote
for him in a million years."
Wrong again. Every LDS/Mormon Church has a sign outside saying: "All are welcome." If you want to learn more about LDS/Mormons, just have to attend their services and ask them. They will give you a free copy of the Book of Mormon too, for the asking. Or next time the Mormon elders come knocking on your door, invite them in. And they'll tell you whatever you want to know about them and their religion. That's why the Mormons [called elders], like Governor Romney, go on Church missions. To evangelize. All over the country and the world.
CarmineD
WRT Governor Romney not serving, it's simple. I posted the reasons above. Here it is again. Governor Romney served in France as a missionary during Viet Nam allowing him a deferment for religious service. When he completed his mission, the US was pulling troops out of Viet Nam, and the military was downsizing and getting poised to go to a voluntary draft army.
CarmineD
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Something's NEVER change...Take RefNV for example.
He's on one of his usual rants about taxes & government, throwing out stat after stat but NEVER posting a link to back up his asserations...
He's a lot like Romney & Ryan. "Don't ask for validation......just trust me when I tell you something..."
Come to think of it....my little buddy Carmine is the same way. What did another poster refer to Carmine as??
Now I remember. He called Carmine "linkless."
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That's funny!
Hmmmmm.... going one step beyond that....What was it that our present governor said when he was running for governor?
"I'll give you the details on how I'm going to balance the state budget after the election..."
Ha! Ha! Ha! More of the same.....
El Lobo,
Dispute the figures I presented. The other day you wrote "NO recession during a large majority of the Bush junior years (8 years)" yet there were two recessions, one at the beginning of his term and one at the end.
I wrote you twice that between those two recessions Bush added 9 million jobs keeping 62%-63% of Americans working but you just ignore the facts because it doesn't fit your liberal political narrative. So why should I waste my time getting figures when it's really up to you to counter with figures/stats that dispute the numbers I gave? Is that too much work for you El Lobo? Apparently, it is. LOL
Carmine continues to "bust his butt" trying to convince posters on this board that Mormonism isn't a cult!
All this time I thought Carmine was Catholic...Shame on me!
The bottom line is that Romney didn't serve a single day in the military. Yes, his two year vacation in Europe....oop's I mean his Mormon mission, gave him a deferement from the militry & kept him out of Vietnam...
Wasn't that convenient?
In some ways, "mittens" and "dickie darth" (Dick Cheney) are two birds of the same feather...
darth didn't serve in Vietnam...when ask why he didn't, darth said he "had better things to do."
That was also pretty much the same answer given by Herman Cain when he was running for the Republican nomination last year....
We all remember Herman don't we? He's the pizza guy!
Do we see a trend here? Is this a Republican thing? Sure looks that way...
I find it also very interesting that the same people who NEVER served in the military are the same one's who think nothing about sending young men off to fight in a foreign war...
Particularly a war that could have been avoided...
Does the war in Iraq ring a bell?
Of course, you must give "clueless George" a pat on the back. George did serve in the military (air national guard) during the Vietnam War.
Of course, junior took some 18 months off during his national guard time to work in a political campaign for a family friend....
Actually that's a nice way of saying that junior went AWOL from the Guard...
Of course, nothing ever happened to junior for his "guard vacation." but what would one expect when George's father was a major player politically.....Head of the CIA?
Carmine....keep working on that Mormon thing..... I got a real kick out of your attempt to give Mormonism a certain amount of credibility by saying that you had talked to various religious leaders (Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Baptists, etc...) and they ALL said that Mormonism is a Christian religion...
I was disappoint in you, however, for not also saying that you had talked with a couple Buddhist monks & a leading figure from Hinduism.
Why didn't you say that you had also gotten the opinion of those who practice Sikhism, Jainism & Zoroastrianism?
That would have completed your "white wash."
RefNV...
The last time I looked, George junior was in office two terms...make that 8 years. Yes he had to deal with a short recession at the beginning of his term and he left office during a recession...that was a recession caused by junior's inept economic policies but that's for another post!
Add together the time junior saw recessions on his watch & subtract that from his 8 years in office & one comes up with the figure 5.....5 years.
In other words, the Bush tax cuts were in place during those 5 years (recession free) and yet there were no real job creation....
You claim that junior saw some 9 million jobs come on line during that 5 year period.... Sorry, but I don't by that......
I'll say it again....
"Trickle down economics" doesn't work. It NEVER has....
Here's some information that pretty much "sinks your ship" when it comes to you saying that George junior created 9 million jobs during a 5 year span...Enjoy!
Republicans
Richard Nixon: Increase of 7.1 million jobs
Gerald Ford: Increase of 1.3 million jobs
Ronald Reagan: Increase of 14.7 million jobs
George H.W. Bush: Increase of 1.5 million jobs
George W. Bush: Decline of 646,000 jobs
Total: Increase of 23.9 million jobs under Republican presidents
Democrats
John F. Kennedy: Increase of 2.7 million jobs
Lyndon B. Johnson: Increase of 9.5 million jobs
Jimmy Carter: Increase of 9.0 million jobs
Bill Clinton: Increase of 20.8 million jobs
Barack Obama: Increase of 332,000 jobs
Total: Increase of 42.3 million jobs.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...
Job creation was 9 million until the recession according to BLS.
More liberal BS from you.
http://bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea01.htm
Hey RefNV....
Spin it anyway you want but the point is that George junior's record on the economy during his two terms in the White House is nothing to write home about...
The first recession that junior had to deal with wasn't of his doing, but the second one that took place in his second term was his fault... Totally his fault!
Allow me to repeat that....
The first recession that junior had to deal with wasn't of his doing, but the second one that took place in his second term was his fault...Totally his fault!
How hard is that to understand? Apparently pretty hard for people such as you....
Are you attempting to "cherry pick" information and use "selective amnesia" to win your argument?
Sure looks that way!
George junior did a terrible job as president. The present leaders of the GOP have literally run away from junior and they never mention his name nor his record.....
junior didn't attend the 2012 GOP Convention and has NEVER been part of the present campaign....
Why is that? Please tell me....
Again, George junior's attempt to use "trickle down economics" failed....mainly because it doesn't work! It NEVER has.......
Did you see (in the link that I posted) the comparsion made between the number of jobs created by Republicans and the number of jobs created by the Democrats since 1960?
Which of the two parties knows how to create jobs? Looking at the information that I linked, you tell me.....
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
El Lobo,
Obama added just 3 million jobs in nearly four years. Are you sure you want to discuss joblessness under Obama's watch?
RefNv....
I don't have a problem talking about the number of jobs that were created on Obama's watch as long as we also discuss the number of jobs that George junior created...
The link that I posted said that junior had a negative job growth record of 646,000 jobs. In other words, there were 646,00 fewer jobs when Bush left office than when he entered..
The same link said that Obama had a increase of 332,00 jobs during his term....
Not sure where you got the number 8 million from? It appears that you just "plucked it" out of the air and ran with it...
The link that you provided made NO mention of that number....
Bureau of Labor statistics.
I've only linked it about 3 times to you in previous posts. Sorry, the data doesn't fit your liberal narrative.
http://bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea01.htm
Extremism? Yes, Obama has been that!