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Thursday, Oct. 4, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
Another view?
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I’m amazed at how easy it is for Democrats to spend other people’s money.
By her advocacy for raising the minimum wage, I’ll assume that Rep. Lynn Woolsey is a liberal redistributionist.
In her Sun article Sept. 30, “Working poor shouldn’t be forced to live on $15,000 per year,” she said, “The very least we can do, at a time when so many Americans are struggling, is to give minimum-wage earners a raise.” Who are the “we” she’s talking about? She clearly makes my point regarding spending other people’s money.
She should have no authority to grant a raise to anyone who she has not hired. But as usual, these types of politicians feel the need to insert themselves into the affairs of business.
Oh my God! It's back again. This is the guy who wrote that people on public assistance have no right to vote.
Please, just one favor; spare the 47% of people your words of utter inanity. You don't have to keep saying your verses of poison time after time, Mr. Valentine. We know who you are, and know what you are about. We know you prefer slave wages, "sweat shop" work conditions, no health care coverage, no voting rights.
Shoo fly, shoo!!!
This has never been about the poor or the working poor or those that cannot help themselves - we alway have and will take care of them.
For Obama it has been about buying votes. Obama view it as a trick play
A dependency society redistrubutes from some to selected others based on their vote
-----
OBAMA "I think the TRICK is figuring out how do we structure government systems that pool resources and hence facilitate some redistribution -- because I ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN REDISTRIBUTION ... to make sure that everybody's got a shot."
Writer is correct, again! Governor Romney gave President Obama an economics lesson in taxes and business at the debates yesterday evening at Denver University. I noticed the president was taking doing some profuse notetaking. As well he should. Too bad it's 4 years too late.
CarmineD
Precisely why I choose Obama! We need to help each other to give everyone a shot. For...
"what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his soul?" (or something to that effect.)
We are a country built upon our common Christian beliefs and established ourselves as being united. We cannot dismiss most of those who due to the circumstances of their birth and socio- economic status have opportunities denied. It is our moral responsibility to provide them a chance.
Yes, there are real " moochers" definitely. Unless you have lived their lives, you will never understand why and how they become moochers. There will always be those, even in the most "well-to-do" society.
In this forum, people argue about issues touting themselves as 'in the know' and they make me laugh. The issues are far broader than we can possibly grasp. They are way beyond our capacity to understand as we are fed only what the powers-that-be allow the public should know.
That is why I consider character as my main yardstick. And, Romney's leave a lot to be desired.
Now, let us picture Carmine and Bradley as two people trying to sell a used vehicle. Carmine is dressed for success. Brad is in simple attire.
Carmine is smooth talking, and promises that this shiny beautiful car is perfect for you. Bradley is a bit rusty in his sales techniques, but is honest in his pitch about the car he is selling.
The contrasting styles have Carmine wooing the customer into believing they are getting a great deal on his car, even though the engine is corrupted. On the other hand, Bradley is selling a not so pretty car that has faded paint and a couple of rusty spots, but the engine is in good shape and is dependable to get the potential buyer to and from their destinations.
Which car do you buy? The same analogy applies to Obama and Romney? I would hope the 47% has not been hijacked into believing a corrupted car engine is now dependable to purchase.
Remember this at while you are in the voting booth!!!
Comment removed by moderator. Name Calling
Mr. Valentine - A minimum wage worker making $15,000 a year has a tough time making ends meet, epspecially after paying over $1,000 in payroll taxes. But, much like Mitt Romney, your job "is not to worry about those people." Just continue worrying about your money. That should be enough to keep you awake at night.
So if the 47% that do not pay taxes was such an IMPORTANT POINT why did Obama refuse to bring it up last night
So if the 47% that are getting government largess - some deserving many not deserving - was such an IMPORTANT POINT why did Obama refuse to bring it up last night
Where was Obama last night? He looked like an empty suit.
So did you pick up on Obama asking Jim Lehrer to "Let move on to the next topic." when he lost the tax reform dispute. Lehrer had to coach Obama about is balanced approach. Lehrer gave Obama 5 more minutes of debate time
- Romney repeatedly called out Obama "as inaccurate" and that Obama did not own the facts - particularly the bogus inaccurate $5 trillion tax increase and the $716 billion Obama robbed from Medicare.
- Obama stated that he and Romney have the same position on Social Security. Really
- Obama says he has a different definition of small businesses where those that empoly over half the people are not included
- Obama stated Romney supports Education reform
- Obama supports trickle-down-Government
- Obama stated we have seen progress with a Republican House the last two years
If "YOU" believe employees deserve a "living wage," why don't you put your money where "YOUR" mouth is? Invest your time, effort & money in a business and pay "living wages" to YOUR employees and butt out of other entrepeneurs business. But, of course, "YOU" won't do that. Why? Because "YOU" have no desire to risk "YOUR" own capital. "YOU" are actaully afraid to take chances with "YOUR" own money. I saw it time after time when I owned my own businesses. So many had so many bad ideas as to how I should run my business even though they hadn't a clue as to what it took to make it profitable. "YOU" in this case, are the "chattering" class - dumb as dirt with preconcieved, but erroneous, concepts of how the business world functions. "YOU" ought to be happy as pigs in mud that this is a free society and even ignorance such as "YOURS" is given airing.
I would be worried if Carmine's parroting of Romney's nonsense about green energy failure rates were anywhere close to reality but they aren't. See here for why right wing sycophants should mainly be ignored:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/...
We should give them raises out of Lynn Woosley's stash.
Or the 90 billion in green energy "stimulus". But that may be gone already.
It's abundantly clear that B Chapline has never owned and operated his own business. I have.
.
Immigrants, legal ones, come into the United States, take two or three minimum wage jobs to make ends meet, room with two to four others who are doing the same thing, and work hard to move forward in life.
Eventually, these immigrants move up the ladder at one of their jobs, or actually open up their own little business and become successful. They don't complain, they don't expect entitlements, and they don't expect twenty dollars an hour to work behind a register at a car wash.
.
This, is what Bradley fails to comprehend. People aren't supposed to live on a minimum wage job. Minimum wage jobs are for kids, retired people looking for something to do, or they are simply the very bottom of the ladder for people looking to work their way up into something better.
.
As Romney mentioned, as a small business owner, I paid sales taxes (collected from customers), tax on my net income, tax on my employee payroll, tax on my fixtures and inventory, taxes that were part of my phone, electricity, and triple net costs, and taxes on any supplies I needed. You have no clue how expensive it is to attempt to run a business until you try yourself. We need to fix many things in this country, minimum wage isn't one of them.
"I would be worried if Carmine's parroting of Romney's nonsense about green energy failure rates "
Indeed you and many other Obama fans are worried today. And deservedly so. If it were a 15 round fight, Governor Romney won a unanimous decision over President Obama. The president looked dazed, tired, and out of steam for the entire debate. If Jim Lehrer were using little league baseball rules, he would have called the debate after the first 2 segments to keep Governor Romney from running up the score.
CarmineD
Wealth redistribution takes place in a myriad of different ways. Taxation and minimum wage laws are only part of the redistribution of equation. Wars, revolutions and vast criminal enterprise are also major methods of redistributing wealth. If Sam Walton were alive he would explain it to you. He was once asked what was the biggest threat to retailing. His response was theft. Walmart will lose close to $4 billion to pilferage this year. Multiply that by 27 million employer and not employer businesses across the United States and you will see another major wealth redistribution modality.
If people don't get good wages and benefits they will find other ways to keep from starving in the streets. People can't afford medical care. There were 123 million emergency room visits last year and nearly every major hospital in United States is on the brink of bankruptcy due to the medical fraud that appears when people promise to pay for medical services and refuse to do so
America is an incredibly expensive place to live. Housing medical care and education are all exorbitant. If wages do not go up by leaps and bounds you're going to have nothing but economic dislocations going forward and more and more wealth redistribution.
Romney is making huge promises that he has no chance of keeping. Last night he talked about creating 12 million jobs. Over the last 70 years the country has created a little over million jobs a year. This during times when economic growth was stronger than the current time. Economic growth around the world is dismal. Our growth rate is slowing because countries around the world are slipping back into recession one after another. Depending on how the next recession plays out we will be lucky to have 8% percent unemployment four years from now.
In a few years if Rummy gets elected people will be talking about all the massive promises that he put forth in the few that he was able to keep. If Obama wants his job back four years from now he will win by a landslide.
Anchorbine is absolutely correct. People are not supposed to live on minimum wage. The problem is that high paying jobs need more and more expensive education that folks can't come close to affording. As a result a large portion of the workforce is working for very low wages in a high cost environment.
My parents were form Germany. An auto worker makes $70.00 an hour. In the south they make $15.00 an hour. You can live on the German wage, you can't on the American wage. Lousy wages cause dependence. Independence is preferred.
"...in Germany, An auto worker makes $70.00 an hour. In the south [USA] they make $15.00 an hour"
Here's the reason. Note too that the German hourly wage INCLUDES BENEFITS. Not so the US. If in fact you add the bennies, the hourly US auto workers' amounts rise substantially.
"""In 2010, Germany turned out 5.5 million cars, more than twice the 2.7 million produced in the U.S. that year.
They did it while paying their workers an average $67.14 hourly wage including benefits, twice the $33.77 per hour auto workers in the U.S. got.
And Germany's "Big Three" -- Volkswagen, Daimler and BMW -- still managed to rake in massive profits.
Don't chalk it up to German engineering: an article from e-journal Remapping Debate says it has more to do with the work environment and attitude, says Forbes. "The salient difference is that, in Germany, the automakers operate within an environment that precludes a race to the bottom; in the U.S., they operate within an environment that encourages such a race," said author Kevin C. Brown.
The union-management relationship in the U.S. is us-versus-them, whereas in Germany they frequently have worker-management "works councils" that collaborate on fixing working conditions and the like, Brown explains. Though nearly every German autoworker is part of the country's national union, they rarely ever strike.
Unfortunately, this sort of management philosophy doesn't tend to manifest itself in German automakers' U.S. factories."
http://autos.sympatico.ca/auto-news/1279...
CarmineD
Mr. Hageman;
My wife's family is from Deutschland. I met her there. I've spent some time there too. Quite a bit. Never see street people. Never see beggars and pan handlers. Never see a ghetto. Never see slums and dirty streets. Just hard working German people enjoying life to the fullest.
CarmineD
Mark,
Both candidates play fast and loose with the facts and I am glad the fact checkers are there for all of us.
Three of the companies that got energy loans have already failed, and as the NY Times says, several others are in financial trouble. Many others are OK for now.
The question really is whether we want our tax dollars allocated to pay for green energy 'research and development' or do we want them provided as loans to finance 'green energy startup companies'.
Personally, I'd choose option one. We can lose our money either way, but since one roadblock to green energy is that it has trouble competing cost wise with non green energy, it seems that doing 'research' to try to fine ways to overcome that issues would be the wisest course.
Michael
Businesses that expand and new businesses provide 90% of the jobs required to keep pace with new entrants into the workforce. Historically, our GDP growth rate post-WW II has been 3.23% per year and we require a 3.2% GDP growth rate yearly just to supply jobs for new entrants into our workforce. If our GDP growth rate dips then we start failing to supply enough jobs to 18 year olds and college grads. Our current GDP growth rate is around 1.7% which is not enough to supply jobs to new workforce entrants. We need to return to a business environment that promotes business investing and entrepreneurship. Liberals propose a larger government which kills the incentive for businesses to expand and new businesses start-ups. With the anti-business Obama in office, the share of our population working has dropped from 59.6% to 58.5%. Comparing previous recession recoveries, the average share of our population working has been between 60% to 61% at this stage of recovery. Today, we have 17% fewer tax filers and the top wage earners earn 34% less compared to 2008. Liberals recommend higher wages, not jobs for the 23 million jobless/underemployed Americans. Since 1948, the US GDP annual growth rate averaged 3.23% compared to Europe's .39%. Why the difference? Higher tax rates and higher legacy costs(healthcare fees and other benefit-related costs for its current employees and retired pensioners) hinders Europe's economic growth. Essentially, liberals are recommending policies that do not promote business expansion, new business start-ups and job creation sufficient enough to get our jobless Americans working again and sufficient enough to create jobs for new entrants into the workforce. Americans three top concerns are jobs, the economy and debt/deficit spending and apparently Obama and liberals plan to do nothing to ease American's top concerns.
Bob Valentine - "I'm amazed at how easy it is for Democrats to spend other people's money."
Senator(R-OK) Tom Coburn - "Tax expenditures are not tax cuts. Tax expenditures are socialism and corporate welfare. Tax expenditure are increases on anyone who does not receive the benefit or can't hire a lobbyist"to manipulate the code to their favor."
Re "Our current GDP growth rate is around 1.7% which is not enough to supply jobs to new workforce entrants"
Actually it been revised back down to 1.3%
Seem that Obama people keep revising it up then down then up it like a roller coaster
Like the jobs numbers they go up and down down down
It is easy to spend other people's money, but it's not just Democrats that do it. Bob Valentine may not have noticed that Republican Governor, Brian Sandoval, inserted himself into the affairs of Apple by awarding them $90m in tax abatements, while allowing Apple's lobbyist to work for the Economic Development Commission.
If all you can do right now is minimum-wage work, DON'T have kids, yet. If on the other hand, you can do more difficult work AND maintain a relationship with another adult who can also--you DON'T HAVE TO LIVE ON $15k a year. Now, if one of you two decides to carry a baby to term, decide ahead of time how you live on less. Many women have worked during pregnancy but some, unpredictably, cannot. Many women have worked AFTER child birth but many have NOT--many can not.
This is USAToday's editorial board's list of 5 questions the President should answer during the debates:
1. Shortly before you took office, your economic advisers projected that if Congress passed a major stimulus bill, the unemployment rate would stay below 8%. The bill passed, but the jobless rate quickly topped 8% and peaked at 10%. In fact, it hasn't been below 8% during your presidency. Did you underestimate the problem, or did you oversell the stimulus?
2. You've repeatedly proposed to raise taxes on those making more than $250,000 a year while leaving the Bush tax cuts in place for everyone else. Soaking the rich might be good politics, but non-partisan tax and budget experts agree it won't come close to producing the revenue the nation needs. That will require far more people to share the burden, including some of the nearly half of Americans who pay no federal income tax. Where do you plan to get the rest of the money? And how will you convince the public that sacrifice is necessary?
3. You promised early in your presidency to cut the federal deficit in half, but your latest budget, the one for fiscal 2013, misses by about $200 billion. The deficit for the fiscal year that ended on Sunday topped $1 trillion for the fourth year in a row. You also gave the cold shoulder to your own deficit-reduction commission, the Simpson-Bowles panel. What evidence can you offer that you take deficit reduction seriously?
4. You have said that Social Security doesn't contribute to the deficit now. But Congressional Budget Office numbers show the program has been in the red since 2010 and is on track to borrow half a trillion dollars over the next decade. According to the Social Security Administration statement being sent to workers across America, the system "is facing serious financial problems, and action is needed soon to make sure the system will be sound." Why do you deny there's a problem, and what specific changes will you support to fix Social Security for the long term?
5. Ballooning health care costs are threatening to bankrupt the nation. Medicare spending alone is forecast to rise from $560 billion this year to $987 billion in 2021. Though the Affordable Care Act sets up numerous cost-saving measures, health experts say it's unclear any of that will be enough. The independent board that's supposed to limit Medicare growth doesn't have the tools to do it. You don't like the Republicans' voucher proposal for Medicare, but how will you contain costs if your experiments don't work out as planned?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/20...
Comment removed by moderator. Off Topic
It was Margaret Thatcher who said: Sooner or later you run out of other peoples' money (to spend.)
A couple of points regarding the above posts. Our GDP growth rate post-World War II was higher than the rest of the world because of our rapid population growth. Our population has doubled since World War II. In many European countries the population is roughly the same as it was 70 years ago. In order to achieve output you need input. Input consists of people and machines. You can only get so much from productivity gains. One guy can only work so much.
In addition the baby boomers are retiring to the tune of 10,000 a day. Our birth rate has been the lowest in recorded history. We also have an anti-immigration policy that is going to lead to dramatically higher prices in the aggregate especially for food.
The rest of the world is sliding into recession. Unemployment is going through the roof. The fact that we are still growing all but at a slower rate is nothing short of a miracle.
We have a mature economy with an aging workforce. A weakening economy around the world and other factors that are going to preclude high GDP growth for decades to come. The issues we and many other countries are facing are part of a macroeconomic megatrend. It will take a very long time to iron out all of these issues.
The fed put out a report last year that it would take 12 years to bring unemployment down to 5% if we could get GDP growth over 3%. Neither are plausible in the current environment
I forgot my favorite subject which is healthcare. Health costs are expected to consume 40% of the economy in a very short time frame. That translates to over $200 trillion in medical bills over the next 40 years. That single factor is enough to suck the blood out of the entire economy. If it costs more than a few hundred bucks people won't be able to afford it. Next year medical will consume over $20,000 per family. Much will be covered by employers but employers are reducing their exposure to medical expenses every single day. More and more these costs are going to get passed on to workers and they can't afford the bills now. We've got some major changes coming. Take it to the bank.
I agree with Mr. Freeman completely in his above discussion on medical care.
In terms of our national debt it will never be cut in half or paid down. These things never are. Anyone that makes these kinds of promises is just trying to buy votes.
Gerry,
Some of what you state about population growth rates is accurate, but if your suppositions are correct, it basically says those of us in our 60's should just try to enjoy the time we have left and those younger than that better just reach for the crack and the booze and have one heck of a party today because the future will not even be worth living. Is that what you are saying or do you think the Obama policies can change any of that?
Michael
I'm somewhat pessimistic but it's not all that bad. I have a son that turned 24 on the first. When he was a kid and living with me he didn't care about medical costs because I paid all the bills. Now that he's paying $442 a month for his Singulair and Symbicort his perspective is different. The America of tomorrow is going to be dramatically different than the America of today. Young people like my son are going to see to that. They are going to come up with solutions that my atherosclerotic brain can't come up with. At some point finance ministers from around the world are going to wink, snap their fingers and trillions of dollars worth of debt are going to disappear.
I tried for 20 years to get medical inflation under control and couldn't make it to first base. The medical lobbies are way too strong. At some point people like my son are going take all these idiots, tar and feather them and throw them out of Washington. At that point some type of clinic-based medicine will be developed that is much cheaper than the crap we have now.
All of these problems will be solved. It's just going to take a few decades to do it.
Fact Checkers don't agree..
I tried to check Romney's tax plan and Politico said it would work if the entire plan is implemented but WaPo says it won't..but relies on a flawed and biased study..
The "tax break for outsourcing" according to the LA Times is based on an exemption for moving the entire company, lock stock and barrel..one block or thousands of miles. Very few outsourcers move the plant, machinery and all over the borders so the "tax break" is kind of a joke..and sort of true for Obama and Romney
The group that made a Big Issue of this was the AFLCIO which doesn't make much fuss about "insourcing" as many illegals are in the Union..yes or no?
Meanwhile..I am looking for fact checkers to check the fact checkers..
As for outsourcing..GM has a new plant in Mexico and GE is expanding in China so Obama yelping about outsourcing is ..reserved for people who do not contribute to his campaign..
And he touts his trade agreements..
Why does the Union support Free Traders..aka NAFT, CAFTA, RAFTA trade agreements?
Bob......
The greedy, anti-union, republican party created
all of these minimum wage jobs that DESTROYED OUR
middle class.
YES, years ago these jobs were for kids going to
college or others who wanted a part-time job.
Not the case anymore.
GREED TOOK OVER.
Look what happened with Walmart.
Part-time workers for a full time company.
That's what happens when greed goes wild.
Thank God that we still have some union jobs left.
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!!!
"Comment removed by moderator. Name Calling"
My friend BChap:
I can't recall what about my comment was... but...the Moderator seems to think so. My apologies to you if you were offended. It was not my intention to do so.
CarmineD
"I'm amazed at how easy it is for Democrats to spend other people's money."
Bush left office with an additional $5.9 trillion in debt. I'm amazed at how easy it is for Republicans to spend the public's money, take them into massive debt, destroy the Real Estate market with fanciful economics that pile money on the wealthy, crash the stock market and then point the finger at Democrats.
I'm truly amazed at the Iraq war, a complete fabrication, started with 100% lies like Vietnam and Republicans don't complain. Bush reads his Bible everyday, gets Bible quotes with the daily war report yet nothing but lies come out of his words and deeds. Why is this?
TEA.......
The romney/ryan 20% tax cut will add 5 trillion
to our debt.