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May 19, 2013

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School District sends pink slips to 419 teachers

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Leila Navidi

Teresa Boucher, a teacher at Hyde Park Middle School, chants during a protest organized by the Clark County Education Association on Monday, June 11, 2012, outside the Clark County School District Administration building on West Sahara Avenue in Las Vegas.

By (contact) Paul Takahashi

Updated Monday, June 11, 2012 | 9:05 p.m.

CCSD sends 419 pink slips

CCSD sends 419 pink slips

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The Clark County School District sent pink slips to 419 teachers on Monday, June 11, 2012, after approving a final budget that bridged a $64 million deficit by eliminating 1,015 teaching positions.

Teacher Protest at CCSD Admin Building

Teachers rally during a protest organized by the Clark County Education Association on Monday, June 11, 2012, outside the Clark County School District Administration building on West Sahara Avenue in Las Vegas. Launch slideshow »

The Clark County School District sent pink slips to 419 teachers this morning after eliminating more than 1,000 teaching positions next school year to balance its budget.

Last month, the School Board approved a $2.06 billion budget for fiscal 2013 that bridged a $64 million deficit by shedding 1,015 positions.

The 419 pink slips sent out Monday reflect the estimated number of filled teaching positions that are being cut after taking into account end-of-year retirements, resignations and relocations. The School District – the fifth largest in the nation – is the largest public employer in Nevada with more than 37,000 total employees.

“We remain firm in our position that keeping teachers in classrooms is what’s best for our students and community,” Clark County Schools Superintendent Dwight Jones said in a prepared statement.

Immediately after the layoffs announcement, the local teachers union fired back, rallying more than 100 teachers in front of the School District’s administration building on West Sahara Avenue. Wearing red T-shirts, union members held signs that read “No Layoffs” and chanted “Save our teachers, save our schools.”

“Four hundred pink slips is 400 too many,” said Ruben Murillo, president of the Clark County Education Association. “There should be no layoffs. The district doesn’t have to do this.”

Affected teachers will be informed by a letter sent out today from the School District’s human resources department.

“It is with deep regret that I must inform you … that you will be reduced in force,” reads the letter from Staci Vesneske, the district’s chief human resources officer. “At this time, you will be placed on a leave of absence for a period not to exceed two years.”

It is unknown what teaching positions were impacted by the layoffs, although officials said last month the district would lay off 840 teachers and 175 literacy specialists, which include librarians and reading coaches.

English, math, special education, science and some language teachers are exempt from layoffs. Teachers at the district’s “turnaround” schools — Chaparral, Mojave, Rancho and Western high schools and Hancock and Kit Carson elementary schools — are also spared from layoffs.

The layoffs were determined in large part by seniority, because a new state law that should have ended the “last in, first out” policy only applied to a small minority of teachers. Just 38 of the 419 teachers were laid off for having poor performance, defined as having five days or longer suspensions.

School District officials attributed the layoffs to a recent arbitration ruling that forced the district to continue paying salary step and education increases, per its contract with the local teachers union.

The district is in contract negotiations with the Clark County Education Association in hopes of putting the 419 teachers laid off back in the classroom by the fall, officials said.

“We continue to approach negotiations with the hope of securing a contract that allows the district to live within our means while keeping teachers in the classroom and employed,” Jones said in a statement.

Union officials say the School District has the funds to avoid layoffs and argue the pink slips were meant to goad the union into taking concessions next year. District officials refuted this claim, arguing that all the money has been allocated.

John Vellardita, the union’s executive director, said the School District was asking for fewer concessions next year. He questioned why district negotiators are only seeking $22 million in concessions when the district has a $64 million budget deficit.

District officials did not verify the union’s figure, citing closed negotiations.

“The district has a financial problem, but not like this,” Vellardita said. “For the past 10 years, there has been a collaborative relationship between the union and the district. In less than a year, (Jones) has destroyed that.

“The School District can’t proceed with their reforms without its teachers,” Vellardita continued. “They should be bargaining with us to get more state funding for education.”

Union officials said they were confident many of the teachers who were laid off might be able to return by the fall because the union expects more teacher retirements and resignations this year. Already, more than 500 teachers have said they would leave the district, Murillo said.

The district – which has laid off and then rehired teachers in the past – had to issue pink slips “to save face” after warning for months about layoffs, Murillo added.

After negotiations are concluded, the district will conduct a “surplus” meeting to determine estimated staffing levels at each school to see if some teachers can be brought back.

If there are any open positions, licensed teachers would be reinstated to qualifying positions in reverse order of the “reduction in force.” The School District has no obligation to rehire teachers after the two-year leave of absence expires.

The reduction of 1,015 teaching positions means class sizes will grow by an average of three students, officials said.

Next school year, middle and high schools are expected to have an average class size of 35 students. Elementary schools will have an average class size of 21 students in the first to third grades and 34 students in the fourth and fifth grades.

Teachers protesting this morning said they were shocked and dismayed by the pink slips.

“I love my job, but I’m very frustrated,” said LJ Bright, a second-grade teacher at Harmon Elementary School. “It’s crazy. You don’t know what’s going to happen anymore.”

The 14-year veteran teacher said the layoffs would hurt her students, some of who are special education students who need more attention.

“It’s less time I have to spend with each student,” she said. “It makes my job a lot harder and it hurts the kids the most.”

Debra Cooley, a kindergarten teacher at Steele Elementary School, said she had about 100 students this year in her morning and afternoon classes. She said she was worried she would be forced to just baby-sit her students instead of preparing her students for first grade.

Although the 17-year-veteran teacher said she sympathized with teachers who were laid off, Cooley said she supported seniority-based layoffs.

“If you just graduated from law school, do you become a partner right away?” Cooley said. “You have to earn it and gain respect.”

Griffith Elementary School kindergarten teacher Christie Rodriguez said the layoffs probably would dissuade her husband from seeking a teaching job with the district.

Her husband just finished his first year student teaching at Griffith and is contemplating a career change from working in the casino industry, Rodriguez said.

“I’m worried about my job and being able to support my family,” she added. “It’s scary.”

Moreover, Rodriguez – a six-year veteran teacher in Clark County – said she was worried about the kind of education her 4-year-old daughter would be getting in the School District when she starts kindergarten in two years. Rodriguez said she was expecting 37 students in her kindergarten class next year due to the teacher layoffs.

“With 37 kids, how are we supposed to teach anything?” Rodriguez said. “It’s terrifying to think (my daughter) will be in a class with that many kids.”

Discussion: 67 comments so far…

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  1. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 11, 2012
    9:44 a.m.
    Flag

    Fire teachers, keep the fat cats! Go Nevada!!

    Clear statistics indicate:

    * class size of under 20 yields dramatically better instruction, while sizes of 20 - 40 are noticeably worse and above 40 are deplorable

    * varied class schedules to emphasize personalized instruction surpasses the standard 50 minute-periods of CCSD; students with flexibile schedules tend to take control and responsibility for project-based learning, become lifelong learners and gravitate towards success, rather than becoming regurgitating takers of tests, the norm in CCSD

    * having summers off REDUCES student skill levels in reading, writing, math, science while maintaining academic rigor during the entire year promotes development.
    ....

    Glass, G. V., & Smith, M. L. (1978). Meta-analysis of research on the relationship of class size and achievement. Educational Evaluation and Policy Analysis, 1, 2-16.

    Glasser, W. (1986). Choice theory in the classroom. New York: Harper Perennial.

    Goodlad, J. I. (1999). Flow, eros, and ethos in educational renewal. Phi Delta Kappan, 80 (8), 571-578.

    Keefe, J. W., & Howard, E. R. (1997). Redesigning schools for the new century: A systems approach. Reston, VA: National Association of Secondary Principals.

    Keefe, J. W., & Jenkins, J. M. (1997). Instruction and the learning environment. Larchmont, NY: Eye on Education.

  2. By itsumo (mark trexler)
    June 11, 2012
    9:46 a.m.
    Flag

    Although I hate to see anyone lose their job, it is good that the pink slips went out now. This way it gives those teachers a chance to look for other employment now and not being surprised at the beginning of the new school year. It's too bad the greedy union thinks it's more important for some teachers to get a raise than thinking of the children that need teachers.

  3. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 11, 2012
    9:48 a.m.
    Flag

    So 'improving student performance' will hinge on the CCSD's willingness to crawl away from the 1850's structures, adopt a set of strategies to actually reflect what many have known for decades, and to actually do the right thing for those whose educations they are charged by law with providing.

    I would think the legal profession would take an interest in pursuing litigation to promote pressure to eliminate the dismal failures of education here, apparently by design and clearly contrasting with recognized best practices. What we are doing to our children is just 'plain wrong' and continues to degrade lives contrasting sharply with well-known standards and practices that are succeeding elsewhere.

    We need leaders, thinkers and doers; we are making followers, regurgitators and watchers, imho.

    Look around. You'll see.

    You'll want to change stupidity before it's too late and before the best chance at real human freedom and democracy goes down the tubes due to following, regurgitating and watching.
    ""

    Personal trainers average $75 an hour in gyms around here.

    Personalized instructors could charge $5 per student, school hours are 8 - 5, half hour lunch and two snack breaks of 15 minutes am and pm. 8 hour day with varying schedules of classes, projects, direct instruction, guided practice, independent practice, demonstration projects for over-learning and 4 quarters per year each with an average of 53 days of school. 12 weeks on, 1 week off, year round.

    Class size of 20. Teacher salary is dependent on attendance. Attendance is mandatory or home-schooling is monitored by state. Parents pay most, community pays a little through business tax, property tax.

    Teachers make $5 per kid per hour for 8 hour day or $800 a day year round (48 weeks) ~ 212 days X 800 a day = $169,600/ annually.

    Motivated and successful kids get scholarships to best schools. Motivated teachers perform well. Motivated and talented would-be teachers can reach mastery in teaching skills, apply in droves and pull us out of this 1850's vestige of how NOT to succeed at the most critical hinge of a successful life - education.

    Make it personal and watch kids thrive... or watch as it continues to fail...

  4. By ASadTeacher (Nancy Agustin)
    June 11, 2012
    9:51 a.m.
    Flag

    The following is the website that lists the various positions in the school district and their corresponding telephone numbers.

    http://ccsd.net/district/directory/resou...

    If you have time to spare, please look at each division/department and the positions under each. The departmental listing begins on page 49 and it goes all the way to page 151. Teachers - those who are actually in classrooms - are not included here.

    After you review each department, you need to analyze how many of these positions are REALLY necessary. Remember, these are not teaching positions.

    Now ask, how many from this list received pink slips?

  5. By BRASS (Dale Swanson)
    June 11, 2012
    10:16 a.m.
    Flag

    Not too long ago I asked the question: Would LV teachers compromise to avoid cannibalizing their own?

    We have the answer. I wonder if it goes down well.

  6. By figmo
    June 11, 2012
    10:47 a.m.
    Flag

    Lets see casino's pay 6 percent tax say they are broke. Then they tell everyone that they will build a 20 Billion dollar casino in Europe and expanded in Macau. Maybe this state needs to raise it to 9 percent still the lowest in the world. Been trying to raise it to this percent the last twenty years. O I forgot they are the job creators. Like the sands owner states he will give 100 million on this election cycle. Wake up Nevada. The mining industry pays 3 percent. Now everyone out there that work for a living tell me you pay 6 or 3 percent in taxes. I bet you pay more than Mitt's 14.5 percent on his 23 million dollars. Education is that important. Just remember that who reads this you can thank a teacher for working for peanuts so your rear can read and write to complain of how much money they make.Last time I checked teachers don't have private jets or BMW vehicles.

  7. By tbvegas
    June 11, 2012
    noon
    Flag

    This almost makes me want to re-elect Obama, Just to watch the cabalism show and watch the whole thing come crashing down!

    Ever wonder why the housing market crashed? Uh". maybe because it was unsustainable?

    Only fools are gonna look back and wonder what happened when the borrowing to fulfill promises gig is up!

    I will tell you own thing. I am the next generation that people expect to pay for all these promises, and I feel NO OBIGATION to fulfill them. That's not gonna go down well!

  8. By BarryS
    June 11, 2012
    12:02 p.m.
    Flag

    Bait and switch. Promise pay/benefits, sign contract, then reneg. And when the other signer party object cry poverty and blame THEM.

    Next time sign a contract that you will adhere to. If it means you can't recruit teachers well, that's life. Then all the administrators will have to pitch in.

    1. Why is a contract that Romney and Bain sign sacrosanct yet a teacher pay contract is not?

    2. Why is it that casinos pay 30% taxes elsewhere, but only 6% here and they still build elsewhere and not here?

    3. If A gave Clark county schools the 100 million instead of Romney/newt etc. his workforce would be better. Romney has his own 250 million to spend on his dream.

    4. Lowest taxes, highest unemployment. Werent we told it would be the other way around?

  9. By Roslenda (Roberta Anderson)
    June 11, 2012
    1 p.m.
    Flag

    IF small class sizes help, why can't our 3rd graders read? They've been in classes less than 21 students for years. Why can't they read? why can't the teachers teach?

  10. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 11, 2012
    1:32 p.m.
    Flag

    Rosie, the reason would be obvious if you ever spent any time in schools. The parents drag the little things in, all dirty, illiterate, never ever having been exposed to books, to challenges, to social etiquette or to the notion that they have brains, genes, talents and value.

    In short, the reason you are asking about is simple - the children have been taught NOT to read, NOT to think and NOT to become.

    Contrast this picture with better worlds where kids at 3 speak in sentences, read to each other, do math, investigate, learn and grow. At 6 my grandchildren can multiply 2 digit numbers in their heads. They write, read and play music.

    Our latest excursion is what we are calling BIkus, or TWO-kus or dancing haikus---we're writing haikus together - one writes the first line (5 syllables), the other writes the second line (seven syllables) and the first one comes back with the final line (5 syllables). Every one must relate to a season through image or reference to seasonal details, each must elicit a strong sense of recognition of a higher plane of respect for nature or growth of connectivity to the world, and each must juxtapose - or contrast elements or features in our world.

    These kids have powers. Parents who fail their kids are everywhere, and no parents means no reading, writing, thinking. Blaming the teachers is the easy and logical answer; volunteering, teaching, enabling, empowering and loving are not always easy tasks, but they do make for better kids and better social interactions.

    Perhaps you could find a few minutes when you're not too busy expounding the wisdom of rosie to address some of the needs in our community, huh??

  11. By staralioflundnv (Star Ali Mistriel-Kogan)
    June 11, 2012
    2:09 p.m.
    Flag

    It really does take a village to raise a child. When the adults in a child's life does little to interact, that child is left to his or her own initiative to inquire, engage, be stimulated, and learn, or as it seems more prevalent, be entertained.

    This morning, I spent over three hours at school planning with my neighborhood school's PTA and site Principal for student/parent/school involvement for a fabulous upcoming school year. Next school year's calendar is set, and the next step is seeking adults willing to be involved for the good and well-being of our school children. Our community's, our neighborhood schools need adult volunteers. There are all kinds of things/tasks that can be done, and it truly ADDS VALUE to a child's life!!!

    Fact is, a child is more motivated to learn, and be a lifelong learner, when someone cares, ADDS that extra something to fuel the fire in their life. We all can do something. Classroom teachers can't do it all, even though they try.

    It is a sad Nevada State of affairs, when our state may be the wealthiest in gold and silver, casinos and resorts, yet because these industries enjoy multiple century + old tax exemptions, our state suffers with woefully inadequate funding for its infrastructure!!!! Time to make our LAWMAKERS accountable, fellow citizens.

    Blessings and Peace,
    Star

  12. By Xtlman (Mark Dunton)
    June 11, 2012
    2:35 p.m.
    Flag

    Might be a sad state of affairs, but it is what it is. The tax base is not sufficient to support the current school district infrastructure, so something had to go. District asked for concessions, did not get them, now time to balance the budget. Teachers are not the problem, the unions who make the money off of teachers, teamsters, migrant workers, etc., etc., are the crux of the problem right now. Several years ago concessions were made in the off-strip properties to keep jobs, and now they are back at full staff again. The union did not want to participate in the concessions WE HAVE ALL HAD TO MAKE here in the valley over the past few years, and now this is the product of their reluctance.

    The teachers union can join those other unions that NOW have to tell their members they are laid off.....sorry...as your Union Rep. I still make my wages and drive my Benz......but you are laid off.

    And Star....I disagree....is not time to make the lawmakers accountable, is time to make the people accountable and realize that if they want and want - it is going to cost them in tax dollars, but try to pass a tax in the state, VOTERS will not go for it, hence, as a representative would be political suicide to propose a tax that your constituents will not view favorably. And please don't lump the gaming industry in town with the mining industry. On a comparative basis of net proceeds alone, the mining industry barely pays 1%, whereas the casinos typically pay on the order of 6-8.5% of their net revenues, which are significantly smaller, and less subject to windfall profits (no additional mining or processing costs, but an eight fold increase in bullion worth over a 6 year period), quite the sweetheart deal I would say.

  13. By Aaronboy (Roy Keith)
    June 11, 2012
    3:21 p.m.
    Flag

    Math teachers please tell your colleagues that 0 dollars means, none, nothing, all gone, the past etc. Our government has been out of control for many, many years and it's still having problems not understanding zero means zero. Sometimes education from a book isn't as good as plain old horse sence.

  14. By BRASS (Dale Swanson)
    June 11, 2012
    3:52 p.m.
    Flag

    The teachers who are complaining about these layoffs and especially the ones who still have a job need to look in the mirror.

    They had ample opportunity to prevent these layoffs, the decision was theirs and they chose to pad their pockets rather than save the jobs. They are the cause of the lost jobs, higher student teacher ratios, they sacrificed their own for a few dollars.

    For the students who may read this, ask your parents and teachers, if you can find them, why they chose a couple of dollars in their pocket over you, the quality of your education and the teachers they threw to the wolves.

    Oh, and ask your parents how they feel about the teachers union now that there are fewer teachers. They are the mob leaders who pushed fewer teachers off on your teachers as a solution.

  15. By Tanker1975
    June 11, 2012
    3:56 p.m.
    Flag

    Using the current CCSD phone book and the 2011 Transparent Nevada salary and benefits information for 2011, I was able to find the following information for Employee-Management Relations. The salary and benefits information is for 2011. The information for 2012 will not be available until the end of the year.

    Associate Superintendent, Dr. Edward Goldman, 191,266.71

    Administrative Secretary III, Nina Papazis, 86,883.08

    Director II Fran Juhasz, 139,309.47

    Coordinator IV, Don (Doc) Harris, 127,704.10

    Coordinator IV, Christopher Greathouse, 120,898.46

    Coordinator IV, Mollie Lyman, 49,805.00 (only hired for part of year)

    Coordinator IV, Darrin Puana, 128,008.70

    Coordinator IV, Denise Thistlewaite, 125,475.04

    Coordinator IV, Kim Radich, 121,220.77

    Office Supervisor, Charlene Ullyott, 58,250.08

    Secretary III, Kaylon Johnson-Vincent, 58,250.08

    Personnel Analyst, Carol Aden, 79,435.65

    Personnel Analyst, America Lomeli, 63,574.91

    Personnel Analyst, Amy Bradsahw-Kelly, 56,337.07

    Total for salary and benefits for 2011 was 1,406,419.12.

    Just as a point of comparision, the maximum pay for a teacher with a PHD and maximum experience with benefits is 93,785. There are at least 8 people in Employee-Management Relations that make as much if not more that amount. The average pay and benefits for a teacher is between 60K and 70K.

    This is a link to the CCSD phone book.

    http://ccsd.net/district/directory/resou......

    This is a link to Transparent Nevada.

    http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/cl......

    I was able to find the information in about 15 minutes.

  16. By gmag39
    June 11, 2012
    4:54 p.m.
    Flag

    Oh, pulleeeeze...

    Not ONE of these teachers will remain out of work @ CCSD by September, unless they WANT to remain out of work come September.

    This is NORMAL at many major school districts EVERY YEAR.
    You watch; NOT A ONE!!!

  17. By fedup2here (Kenny Rogers)
    June 11, 2012
    4:55 p.m.
    Flag

    I'm a union man , but I say shame on the union for not seeing tough times and not thinking of the children. I've been involved in negotiations where we made sacrifices so evereyone in the unit stays working, in these times you have to look at that. But how many of the top staff will be let go? , you know, the assistant to the big chief , the assistant to the assistant of the big chief, the vice chiefs assistant aides, the divisional directors, etc... I think its time for the chiefs to pour their own coffee and the directors to micromanage themselves too , that would save probably 10 teaching jobs.

  18. By sevenfoot (Gary Sauer)
    June 11, 2012
    5:01 p.m.
    Flag

    This is how Las Vegas takes care of it's locals. Fire em, because the bottom line is the ONLY thing that matters here.

  19. By Tanker1975
    June 11, 2012
    5:03 p.m.
    Flag

    @fedup2here. You may want to look at Transparent Nevada CCSD salary listing for 2011. There are 50 names per page, and the first teachers don't show up until page 36. That's over 1700 names before you get to teachers. The best one is the last name on page 35. Rudy Petshauer, a roofer in General Maintenance made over 104K in 2011. That more than any teacher. This is the link to Transparent Nevada. The top 50 salaries and benefits for CCSD in 2011 totaled over 8 MILLION. That is roughly enough for the teachers in a high school.

    http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/cl.........

  20. By its2hot (Tim Wiggin)
    June 11, 2012
    5:37 p.m.
    Flag

    Amazing, laying off teachers yet they're keeping the bloated office personal that sits around fattening up on ho ho's and ding dongs.

    Anyone tries to get anything from the office personal or administration understands the above, they don't do much, it takes forever when they do it and they complain when they do have to work, which isn't very often and yet, they're still on the clock sucking off the system. But then who cares, they're no different than any other public office worker, slow, dumb and lazy yet they all claim to be smart, overworked and not paid enough.

  21. By Tanker1975
    June 11, 2012
    6:37 p.m.
    Flag

    In the Curriculum and Professional Development Division, there are 18 Turn Around Team Project Facilitators. There is only salary information available for 10 of the 18. The other 8 show no salary information in any jurisdiction in Nevada, which means that they were most likely not employed in education in Nevada in 2011. Translated, they most likely moved here from out of state.

    For the 10 Project Facilitators on the Turn Around team that salary information was available.

    Lisa Andersen, 109,981.39
    Verena Bryan, 72,175.37 (Teaching position in 2011)
    Dina Cosner, 105,837.75
    Linda Gearin, 106,558.72
    David Janssen, 78,463.82 (Teaching position in 2011)
    Tina Quintana, 87,332.82
    Kristin Stowe, 81395.82
    Jennifer Swofford, 62,491.31 (Teaching position in 2011)
    Maria Woehr, 112,418.82

    Total for the positions with salaries and benefits listed was $926914.55 or an average of 92,619.46.

    Just as a point of comparision, the maximum pay for a teacher with a PHD and maximum experience with benefits is 93,785. The average pay and benefits for a teacher is between 60K and 70K.

    This is a link to the CCSD phone book.

    http://ccsd.net/district/directory/resou.........

    This is a link to Transparent Nevada.

    http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/cl.........

    I was able to find the information in about 15 minutes.

  22. By Tanker1975
    June 11, 2012
    8:24 p.m.
    Flag

    @Bob-Realist. What "unqualified" individuals are you talking about. Any teacher that is hired by CCSD must be licensed by the Nevada Department of Education prior to being hired. If a teacher is licensed, they are qualified.

    The only qualification to be a school trustee is to convince enough people to vote for you so that you can win the election.

  23. By dukeofdeath (John Wayne)
    June 12, 2012
    12:45 a.m.
    Flag

    I don't care about teachers or kids very much but something really smells bad here. All the money that is being spent on that I-15 joke and new airport terminal in Las Vegas make me think that all the Nevada government cares about is tourism. I guess the state cares less about teachers and kids than I do. That means you guys are in serious trouble.

  24. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 12, 2012
    4:44 a.m.
    Flag

    Several really good posts here have opened a new way of viewing some of the structural difficulties built-into the CCSD failure to provide adequate results.

    1) The schools are so big that police are required. Small schools engender fair play, develop relationships and encourage coalescence.

    2) Administration is overstaffed and overpaid while the workers are understaffed and underpaid.

    3) The pleasure of learning, the acquiescence of personal power and the control of one's future no longer belong to the primary beneficiary - the learner - or the secondary beneficiaries - guardians, parental groups or general community. This distortion removes motivation and disables instruction as it displaces responsibility for making gains from those who would benefit from learning to those who benefit regardless of outcome.

    Net result is dismal performance, anger and frustration along with finger-pointing, tongue-wagging and pink slips - impoverished lives, lost opportunity and inequity.

    Read these posts, read 'em and weep. These are our people.

    Minor alterations in a system this broken will be made by those whose lives are well-insulated from its tragedies; these minor changes only serve to embellish further the largesse reaped from the rape of culture. How much longer can a system be tolerated that performs lip service to duty to empowering children while paying exorbitant salaries for failed outcomes?

    It's time to do things right, for a change.

    Small schools, small classes, well-paid teachers, year round school, longer days, flexible schedules and learning based on personalized instruction would work as it does other places...kids find their strengths, learn how to learn, to connect their passions and potentials in a world made for learning, for growing, for becoming their own autonomous and self-directed heroes.

    OR

    Continue with mega-monster masses of bodies jammed into huge classes where teachers use megaphones, work sheets and electronic scoring devices to prove children can pass tests - children whom they do not know or understand as Cops stand guard over the masses of minds devolving into despair and destitute denial of their precious God-given humanity.

  25. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 12, 2012
    5:06 a.m.
    Flag

    Some haiku from my grandchildren created by co-writing. We call then Bi-kus or TWO-kus or Dancing Haikus because one starts it off with 5 syllable first line, the other picks up on the idea and adds the second line of 7 syllables and then the first one finishes the piece with 5 syllables...all have a reference to season of the year, all juxtapose by contrasting imagery, and they all lift us up

    June

    Tank tops and flip-flops,
    No parkas, mittens or boots-
    Warm breeze, sunlight, skin.

    Lunch

    Red ripe tomatoes,
    Crunchy bacon and lettuce -
    Fresh and tangy treats.

    Fishing

    Bobber disappears-
    Fight is on; rod bends over-
    Lure, hook, rod, stringer.

    These kids are 6.

  26. By lvfacts101 (Jerry Fink)
    June 12, 2012
    6:58 a.m.
    Flag

    Boo, hoo! Get out the hankies! The greedy teachers sold out their fellow teachers and now they want sympathy? Give me a break! Welcome to the real world just like so many others have. Layoffs, cut hours, rollbacks on wages & perks have been a norm in the private sector for years and teachers want sympathy? Not from this quarter. Man up, teachers; grow a spine and learn to live like us, your employers - on a tightened budget.

  27. By Roslenda (Roberta Anderson)
    June 12, 2012
    7:25 a.m.
    Flag

    Stop the sympathy ploys. Teachers, they are NOT your kids. They are your STUDENTS--for you to teach. Could we start with some good examples of proper behavior and decorum when in public? How about civil behavior when posting?

  28. By CCCC
    June 12, 2012
    8:05 a.m.
    Flag

    More than 400 pink slips go out to CCSD teachers. Why is anyone surpised. This is what the teachers wanted to happen. A year ago, almost to the day, Ruben Murillo, president of the Clark County Education Association, told this very paper that teachers have been asked to sacrifice over the past three years and would sacrifice no more.

    "Our members would rather us protect salaries and benefits, even if it might mean layoffs," said Murillo. (http://bit.ly/LhOOH1)

    Teachers choose to throw the new hires under the the short bus and then act like we won't remember this these layoffs were their idea.

  29. By unclegig (Greg Biason)
    June 12, 2012
    8:26 a.m.
    Flag

    This budget problem is not unique to Nevada...it's nationwide. The big difference is that unions in other places decided to save their teachers by sacrificing raises and benefits. The picketers are demonstrating in the wrong place, they should be picketing infront of the union offices.

  30. By Roslenda (Roberta Anderson)
    June 12, 2012
    8:32 a.m.
    Flag

    Tanker, as the Sun has pointed out, the AVERAGE CCSD teacher pay is $74K and goes up to $96K. For part time work.

  31. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 12, 2012
    10:05 a.m.
    Flag

    Informative research and posting, tanker.

    Thanks for clarifying the glaring inconsistencies with fidelity that have come across in the postings from a discarded government worker whose reputation as being quick to attack and slow to acquiesce earned her so many pass-overs that her employment was terminated.

    Most teachers hire on with CCSD out of college at around $38 K. This meager salary also comes with mandatory overtime which is UNPAID for the duties 'as required' by contract but NOT reimbursed responsibilities in numerous daily activities: preparation, grading, assessments both formative and summative, parent/guardian contacts, parole/probation officer meetings, IEP planning and meetings, faculty meetings, clubs, sports, dances, school trips, etc. The average teacher puts in 2200 - 2400 hours in the 9 and 1/2 months, significantly more than most ordinary 9 -5 ers working a 50 week year.

    The take home pay for teachers in their first 5 years or so in CCSD amounts to about $13.86 per hour spent. And for this privilege, most spend $100,000 to $250,000 for degrees, certifications, etc.

    The other glaring falsehood which another poster constantly includes in the erroneous pay scale numbers inflated and concocted in order to deceive readers is the inclusion of benefits of retirement which is the by far the largest chunk.

    As a matter of fact fewer than 50% of the teachers actually stick out the first 5 years, and this choice ELIMINATES all that retirement. Also it is important to note two other facts associated with this 'retirement' benefit. One is the WEP (Windfall Elimination Provision) which means if a teacher also did other things for a living and DID earn some social security, then the retiree's SS check is significantly reduced simply because they have both their teacher retirement and their SS. The actual amount of reduction of SS means they get about half of what they would have gotten.

    The other fact associated with retirement is the fact that a contract is a contract. All of the items in the contract comprise the agreement. Teachers sign on to the profession accepting low pay, long hours, difficult working conditions, etc for the long view of having something when their days are near the end. Part and parcel makes a deal. There is no 'line-item-veto' available in these contracts as one poster suggests by inference to be a suitable path.

    It's regrettable that some folks choose to undermine a culture this way when we have enough problems to address without having to revisit the baseless attacks from the less-than-intellectually-honest members.

  32. By CCCC
    June 12, 2012
    12:35 p.m.
    Flag

    @taylorjw.."My wife is a teacher and in counting up the hours that she put in this last school year we found that she put in over 2900 hours in the 9 months.."

    You want us to believe your wife spent an average of 15 hours a day working as a teacher. Sorry, I don't buy it. It's much easier to believe, she's just bad at math.

  33. By Roslenda (Roberta Anderson)
    June 12, 2012
    3:10 p.m.
    Flag

    Taylor, most employed people spend a lot of time prep for work--some even count sleep time as prep time. What about shopping for business cloths? Buying brief cases, pens, gifts for coworkers and clients? Driving to and from? Keeping bosses happy. Baking cookies to bring in for staff. So cut the nonsense. Teachers "work" 7 partial hours a day in the class room except many get the "study hour" off. 184 days a year versus 240 for the rest of us. And decrease the 184 for "teacher training" paid for by the taxpayers.

  34. By wharfrat (pat hayes)
    June 12, 2012
    3:18 p.m.
    Flag

    I was hoping to see NPRI/Pat Gibbons comment on class size not being materially related to instructional quality or results. It seems that with the education reform movement clearly in charge, Guthrie at the state level and Jones here, they would be putting those principles in place.

    If a business faced the same issues that business might consider revamping their line to focus on the core. Keep math, English, science and history/Government class numbers lower by reducing the number of electives and increasing the number of core classes. Phase out all the coaches and athletics, art. music, theatre, choir, glee, mariachi, woodshop, etc. and focus on essential core classes.

  35. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 12, 2012
    4 p.m.
    Flag

    The wisdom of rosie..."sleep time as prep time. What about shopping for business cloths? Buying brief cases, pens, gifts for coworkers and clients? Driving to and from? Keeping bosses happy. Baking cookies to bring in for staff."...

    Hahaha. personalizing instruction is like buying 'cloths' {sic}

    Formulating lesson plans based on formative assessment documentation is synonymous with 'driving to work' lol

    Meeting with probation officers, conversations with guardians, developing IEPs and creating overhead transparencies for small group seminars in rosie's mind are no more challenging than baking cookies. lmao

    Thank you for your wisdom, Roslenda. What a comparison!!...apples to termites, cucumbers to lady bugs, pizza to cat litter. Really enjoy your input. Keep it up, rosie...you're the best!

  36. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 12, 2012
    4:29 p.m.
    Flag

    Let's take Pat Hayes' notion of 'core' a step further. Let's teach the children, not classes. Let's abandon our failed ways of top-down power, teacher-led instruction and perform a lobotomy on education as we knew it. It is NOT working as it is.

    Personalizing instruction means embedding learning opportunities in a student's path and letting them discover their strengths. It means altering the role of teacher from the megaphone blasting away AT the learners and replacing the energy with the learners learning and teachers coaching and advising, mentoring and supplying INDIVIDUAL small human beings the tidbits and chunks of what they want and NEED in order to satisfy their hunger for what appeals to their drive to become themselves in a better world where they actually own the power to dictate their future.

    Personalizing instruction in the Information Age is akin to planting clover, flowers and fruit trees in order to let honey bees make honey in the agricultural age.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/personal...

    The core of education is the autonomy of the young learner; the core is NOT standardized core curriculum. The curriculum is stuff; the learner is the live wire. Start there, feed, challenge like Goldilocks - not too hot, not too cold, JUST right!

    Check that diagram in the beginning of the cited article where challenge meets skill. Look at where FLOW resides. When learners have appropriate challenge and skill, time disappears and personal power takes over.

    Growth fuels self-esteem and development creates life-long learners. Without the student input, we are whistling Dixie and losing ground.
    In our current paradigm, the learners are being turned into non-learners. Just look at the dismal outcomes and consider a better way to ensure a turn-around...

    http://www.examiner.com/article/entitlem...

    Take a look at what venerable institutions are focusing on these days and nights and weekends...Imagine engaged learners, chomping the bit, begging for more...

    http://www.examiner.com/article/building...

    It is actually a click away. MRI brain scans show in absolutely no uncertain terms the fact that kids' brains dumb down for school and light up for self-directed surfing, for discovery, involvement, learning, sharing.

    What we need is a personalized instruction paradigm that empowers kids to communicate, to access information, make decisions for themselves, learn to think critically, develop their autonomy, cultivate their imaginations, link their agility and access their sources, influence their contacts and provide their own futures.What we are making is a mass of followers, regurgitating imbeciles and strangers to their own talents.

    Our schools are 1853. It's 2012 and time to shed the past, grab the future by the mouse and put the game on and go for it before it's too late!

  37. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 12, 2012
    4:55 p.m.
    Flag

    Like ShannonK, I did other jobs besides school teaching. I built houses, highways, highrises and hospitals. I worked as a field engineer, truck driver, restaurant manager, chef and farmer, rancher and energy auditor, trainer and professional athlete.

    And school teaching was one of the most time-intensive and draining roles I ever filled. And one of the most rewarding because of the impact I felt on a bunch of kids whose lives had been like what bam1969 describes - thrown away losers, abandoned waifs and homeless motherless kids with no chance in hell for a decent life. Those losers taught me more about respect for autonomy and mastery and self-fulfilling purposeful direction than any book out there. They lit the fire in my soul with their apathy-turned-drive, their ignorance-turned-hunger, their deserts-turned-gardens and their dead ends turned-new beginnings.

    They gave me hope for the lost, faith in the future and trust in my core. They... gave me the time of my life, and I owe it all to cruel poverty and aimless wanderers, wondering wtf and finding it inside their little scaredy cat souls, begging for the wings to flap, and they flapped, and flapped and flew away grateful for their little belly buttons and their chance to fly.

  38. By ASadTeacher (Nancy Agustin)
    June 12, 2012
    8:49 p.m.
    Flag

    Tanker:

    Please ignore the ignorant. Most of these people who put down teachers using false arguments and downright vitriolic had bad experiences with schools or teachers. I cannot imagine adults who have had wonderful experiences at school getting as nasty as they are. No matter what truth you put out there, it DOES NOT make any difference because they already have made up their minds. There is NO POINT in explaining.

    Blaming the union and the teachers is very superficial. That is the only angle they see because that is all they want to see.

    Let us hope that one day, their closed minds will crack a little to allow some reason through. The only real way one understands is to spend some time with that which one does not.

    I welcome anyone to spend at least a week teaching in my classroom doing lesson planning using the curriculum engine, materials preparation, assessments, designing activities and interventions, differentiating instruction, parent relations, classroom management, administrative relations, and other duties that may be assigned from time to time. Those who claimed to have taught schools have not really been through the real nitty-gritty of teaching - especially in today's culture and demographics. Then, they need to spend another week learning how the district really operates - not what they hear from the news. We'll see if they will know what I know having been in the district for over 25 years.

    Only then will I consider any of their opinions valid. For now, they are irrelevant.

  39. By ASadTeacher (Nancy Agustin)
    June 12, 2012
    9:18 p.m.
    Flag

    ...lesson planning using the curriculum engine, materials preparation, assessments, designing activities and interventions, differentiating instruction...

    On second thought, I don't think they have a clue what to do or even have a clue what these words mean!

  40. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 13, 2012
    2:30 a.m.
    Flag

    I arose before the Sun crept up just to read the responses from the rose...gee...no response, not one.

    Well, I said to myself, perhaps she is snoring away, putting in those extra hours preparing her informed and detailed answer to tanker's quest. Of course we ALL would benefit from such a illustrative portrayal of how similar sleeping or shopping is to grading papers from those whom we are instructing in order to discover what level of cognition, what connections to their lives and what relative associations are firmly in place.

    After performing this 'required duty' for no extra pay whatsoever, tanker proceeds to incorporating appropriate re-teaching techniques, revamps his flexible scheduling and personalizes questions, assignments, readings, that would relate needed content or mastery upgrades for the learners whose demonstrated grasp is less than construction grade.

    Building lives takes time, devotion and above all a thing called commitment, a commodity obviously unknown to those snoring their lives away, cruising malls for goods to purchase to exchange for landing on the 'ok' side of a boss.

    Something that teachers do for free every single day and night of their lives is the thing that matters to our society, to our culture and to our people. That thing is best described by Nancy's last words of her first paragraph ... differentiated instruction.

    It means associating a learner with a concept in a way that the particular child is able to grasp, something within their reach, something that holds the germ of a connection to what the child DOES know and builds on that knowledge to incorporate the new gem. It's like a jeweler sliding a ring off the finger, attaching the jewel and slipping the bejeweled ring back on. It's like the carpenter measuring twice and cutting once, checking the fit and using level and square attaching a header to bear the weight of the next level.

    Differentiated instruction requires thorough content knowledge, accurate assessment of the learner's capacity, the learner's cognitive style, the learner's learning style and the learner's motivational make-up at a minimum. But the biggest requirement is the teacher's respect for the process.

    Without the drive and intention and willingness to provide the bridge, the child walks back from the river, remains alone and detached from the future until another civil engineer happens by, embracing the civility and engineering expertise to permit crossing.

    And tanker does it a thousand times a day, a night and a weekend for free. And for good reason - to make a difference, a bejeweled ring and a solid header.

  41. By CCCC
    June 13, 2012
    6:23 a.m.
    Flag

    TaylorjW

    'It's call[sic] working weekends (at least 10 hours every weekend) as well as prep work over the summer and holidays."

    It's callED the past tense. Your teacher-wife is bad at math, but at least your bad at grammar. Quite a pair you two are.

    I am a taxpayer and a voter. If you really think, " it doesn't matter if you buy it or not," then why bother to state your case to us at all?

    The teachers were the ones with the final say on class sizes. They were offered two options. 1) make some concession. 2)Face teacher layoffs.

    They chose option two, because despite all their rhetoric about teaching being a "calling" they chose to look out for themselves at the expense of the students. I'm not judging that decision, but I do take issue with the teachers acting as if this wasn't something they had the final say in.

    Wouldn't it be a sight to see the teachers make a stand against the overpaid government parasite? How much goodwill they could garner protesting, not at he CCSD, but at the LVMPD. How many teachers could be hired if, rather pay more than $10 million in settlements and salaries for bad cops, they sent those funds to the CCSD.

    Use their own words against them and threaten not to teach the children of cops if Metro doesn't reform, just like the copologists threatened the public with no police response for those who dare demand accountability.

    Then head on over the the FD and demand the county address why college educated teachers get paid less than half what the hose jockeys get to sit around and play video games, when they aren't aren't required to have even finished high school.

    You and your fellow teachers spend the Summer demanding accountability from Law Enforcement and slashing the salaries of firefighters, and you'll get my vote for whatever tax increase you need. And I don't even expect you change anything with the cops and pole sliders.

    But when you are crying to the public that is trying to make it through these dark times, rather than expressing outrage over how the cops and firefighters are making more six figures, you just reaffirming our notion that you simply don't get it.

    I would love it the teachers could swap salaries with those overpaid criminals. If only teachers had rushed into the towers back in '01, then you could have ridden on the backs of true heroes and be making the big bucks.

  42. By ASadTeacher (Nancy Agustin)
    June 13, 2012
    7:09 a.m.
    Flag

    Mr. Crimcops:

    We can use your advocacy - not admonishing teachers - BUT asking for accountability from the district. We support the policemen and the firemen. Like us, they too are victims of the games politicians play.

    The district CAN survive with the current budget. It is how the money is spent that needs oversight.

    Let start with human resource. I posted the directory that lists departments and positions in each department. Look at that, then look at their salaries at Transparent Nevada.com. These positions are NOT teachers in classrooms - with children.

    Next. Look at all the hirings - from administrators on down to the clerks - who create positions, who hires, and who knows whom.

    Next. Look at all the change orders in school construction. Look at the process of bidding and awards.

    Next. Look at all the purchases - the suppliers, who recommend where to purchase, and who approve the purchases. Include ALL purchases.

    Next. Look at special education programs and all federally funded programs. Look at where the major bulk of the money is spent.

    Next. Look at all the grant monies - where they are spent.

    Next. Look at the process of auditing - inside or outside.

    Anyone wants to do anything about the school district? All of you who continue to hate teachers and their association, go ahead - take my challenge. I warn you, it's not easy to wade through the bureaucratic muck. See if you have the guts to do anything beside spewing vitriol while hiding behind your computer screen.

    Bashing teachers really is too easy. When you are done doing what I asked and you still make bashing teacher your sport, then you win and I ride into the sunset in my 13-year old Dodge made-in-America, faded van.

  43. By Roslenda (Roberta Anderson)
    June 13, 2012
    7:15 a.m.
    Flag

    The above post exemplifies what is WRONG with CCSD. 14,000 teachers each figures s/he knows what is best. No consideration or allowance that administrators are their superiors. No consideration for the taxpayers and voters. No consideration for anyone but self.

  44. By CCCC
    June 13, 2012
    10:11 a.m.
    Flag

    @sadteacher

    "We can use your advocacy," How about you teachers get on the same pager. @taylorjw just told me he doesn't care what I think.

    You want my advocacy, well I gave you a clear path to my 100% support, but you say its a no go,

    "We support the policemen and the firemen." You want to support the uneducated making two to three times what you make, that's cool with me. But the funds are limited and if you want to support poorly trained police costing taxpayers more than 10 million dollars in settlements and salaries for bad cops, go right ahead. Just know that I won't support six figure salaries for high school drop outs and I won't support those who do.

    And as far as your "ride into the sunset in my 13-year old Dodge made-in-America, faded van."

    First tank of gas is on me. While committed educators are a valuable commodity, whiny, entitled quitters are a dime a dozen.

  45. By Jeremiah (Jeremiah Allen)
    June 13, 2012
    10:15 a.m.
    Flag

    Is Roslenda suggesting that we should never question the wisdom of our superiors? Should we just accept the fact that, by virtue of being in charge, our superiors are infallible? I'm trying to figure out that post. I'm sure, that by that logic, Roslenda has never questioned anyone in a position of authority.

  46. By Jeremiah (Jeremiah Allen)
    June 13, 2012
    10:38 a.m.
    Flag

    Actually, it wasn't just A Sad Teacher who pointed out the salaries of district-level staff. Tanker brought it up by posting what NPRI already has readily available at transparentnevada.com for all to see.

    It's a valid point that gets lost in all of the venom spewed at teachers. That the district can afford an army of tradesmen, police officers, office managers, and directors of various stripes who make up to two- or three- times what a teacher makes is something that deserves more attention.

    The media coverage, and the attention of many posters here, is focused solely on what teachers are paid, and how that alone is destroying the education in Nevada. Not a word is spoken or written about the wisdom of the school board in paying exorbitant salaries to thousands of people who have NO direct impact on the education of any child.

    That makes Roslenda's comment clear: Don't question those who are in charge. It also brings into sharp relief Criminal's comment that a teacher is only dedicated and valuable until he or she begins to assert First Amendment rights on his/her own behalf.

  47. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 13, 2012
    10:44 a.m.
    Flag

    Jeremiah has it right, apparently. When rosie was a government employee, she just kinda sat around waiting to be told what to do. That's why they had no choice but to let her go.

    It's pretty hard to tell someone anything when she knows she's not supposed to think.

    She prefers to be told.

    What a world!!

  48. By sebring (Sebring Frehner)
    June 13, 2012
    11:51 a.m.
    Flag

    Hire/retain teachers with experience. Neither school environment nor teacher's highest degree affected student achievement.

    Hire/retain good district level administrators and strong, committed finance directors (foster a team approach). Financial personnel in high success districts view their role as integral part of the larger system and practice student-centered administrative practices, such as needs-based budgeting.

    Create/preserve low teacher to student ratios (for various reasons). Funding lower teacher-student ratios did not directly affect student gains, but improved teacher-student ratios that first affect school environments, which in turn directly raises student performance levels. The benefit of a low ratio promotes social cohesion, teachers can be more attentive, higher morale, maintain order and discipline, and forge better relationships with students.Hire/retain teachers with experience. Neither school environment nor teacher's highest degree affected student achievement.

    Hire/retain good district level administrators and strong, committed finance directors (foster a team approach). Financial personnel in high success districts view their role as integral part of the larger system and practice student-centered administrative practices, such as needs-based budgeting.

    Create/preserve low teacher to student ratios (for various reasons). Funding lower teacher-student ratios did not directly affect student gains, but improved teacher-student ratios that first affect school environments, which in turn directly raises student performance levels. The benefit of a low ratio promotes social cohesion, teachers can be more attentive, higher morale, maintain order and discipline, and forge better relationships with students.

    High success districts consistently spent more per-pupil than moderate or low success districts on instruction, instructional resources, school leadership, general administration, co-curricular activities, and total operating expenditures.

    High success districts consistently spend significantly more per-pupil than level moderate or low success districts in regular education and career & technology education. Expenditures for special populations (G & T, sp. ed., compensatory ed., bilingual ed) were not positively related to overall performance levels.

    High success districts focus more on finding ways to serve all students and achieve higher academic performance levels.
    They accomplish this by using data to identify needs, plan collaboratively within the district, allocate resource to campuses in a manner dictated by student needs rather than allocation formulas, and make efforts to address past financial inequities among campuses.
    They are more willing to reallocate funds if there is data based evidence that a change would yield positive results.

  49. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 13, 2012
    12:16 p.m.
    Flag

    CrimCops also seems to begrudge folks whose educational backgrounds reflect a low level of formalized instruction with a bias against professional law enforcement and firefighters who didn't go to college.

    As for rosie's comment that teachers have no respect for administration or for voters or for tax payers, let's be specific.

    Many teachers including Dr. Agustin have significantly better educations and in her case significantly greater experience in both classroom and in supervisory roles. As a respected teacher with decades of experience, she brings to the table numerous valuable viewpoints and constructive inputs that would be welcome in most organizations of merit, including schools.

    As a tax-payer, her understanding of what goes into the community is as good as anyone else's. Unlike some critical posters here, Dr. Agustin is a home-owner, mother, artist, comedienne, chef, published author, gardener plus she is significantly more Asian in numerous respects, including birthright, name sake, island origination and civil decency together with being an English language learner, speaker of various other languages, polite, refreshingly optimistic and an esteemed member of an elite group of top-notch leaders in every school where she taught or administrated instructional operations.

    As a voter and as one who empowers voters to gain understanding of issues affecting all of us, her input exceeds significantly the likes of rosie for example whose claim to fame is 11 years serving lunch and then being let go for failure to get along, progress or contribute anything but the kind of blather we read here - essentially disapproval and degradation, denigration and denial. At least Dr. Nancy Agustin helps people, works with all kinds amicably and with positive outcomes and she does it graciously and is well-respected by all with whom she works.

  50. By CCCC
    June 13, 2012
    1:13 p.m.
    Flag

    Airweave.."CrimCops also seems to begrudge folks whose educational backgrounds reflect a low level of formalized instruction with a bias against professional law enforcement and firefighters who didn't go to college."

    Almost. I "CrimCops also seems to begrudge folks whose educational backgrounds reflect a low level of formalized instruction with a bias against" those who make six figure salaries for jobs that don't warrant such salaries, especially when educators with Masters degrees are lucky to make half of those outrageous salaries.

    As for a bias against law enforcement, well, I have bias against having my tax dollars used to pay off the families of criminals, because the a cop isn't bright enough to tell the difference between the a tube of chap-stick and a firearm. I begrudge anyone who kills under conditions that even a high school physics teacher knows just don't occur in this world. I begrudge allowing cops to lie under oath in order to violate the constitutional rights of each and every one of us.

    But it seems that @sadteacher and you are cool with that.

    You want to support murderous, lying, child molesting, rapist cops that's your right as an American. It's my right to never support you as a result.

    So, in keeping score, the votes from teachers are
    Teacher's salaries 2.
    Dirty Cops 2
    Lazy, thieving firemen 2
    Students 0.

  51. By Jeremiah (Jeremiah Allen)
    June 13, 2012
    2:05 p.m.
    Flag

    That's a pretty big strawman that Crimcops built for himself to knock down with that last part of that post. I don't see anywhere in Sad Teacher's or Airweare's comments that "support murderous, lying, child molesting, rapist cops," as you put it. Then you make the even greater leap to listing teachers as being in favor of such thuggery at the expense of students. That is some world-class use of logical fallacies.

  52. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 13, 2012
    2:18 p.m.
    Flag

    CrimCops, you are indeed a fine piece of work.

    You and I agree that the cops and firemen are overpaid, under-trained and often a bit too violent, too lazy and quite well supported by taxes. A recent MSNBC story said firemen average $45k in the US starting off w/ a HS education. I reflected on the $187 K average in LV last year and now down to a trifling $175k plus benies for a 10 day work month.

    I reflect on the dismal numbers coming out of NV HSs, and I cringe at the wasted lives, blown futures and miserable family life and lack of career opportunities these young people are saddled with for the rest of their lives, most of them.

    I am blessed to have been in the trenches working with delinquents, drop-outs, forced-outs and kicked-outs who were given a second chance and made a go of it for awhile. I am also blessed to have grown up down the street from Beaver Cleaver, Wally and Ricky Nelson. My dad worked and did ok so mom took care of us and we fished and camped and hunted and learned how stuff is.
    We ate duck and geese, venison, rabbit and squirrel, dove and quail. And we had a real family life. We all played ball, studied hard and got scholarships.

    I always found summer employment on farms and ranches, building houses and got lucky and graduated college at 20 and found engagement in satisfying life-work.

    Most of the kids in NV don't get this kind of chance anymore. And with the economy tanked, the opportunity chest shriveling up and crime on the rise, things look like there getting worse.

    Looking at the education mess makes me think we're doing it all wrong with way overpaid admin, huge schools and too many kids in a class. With personalized instruction and (I know it's a long shot) year-long school, longer days and varied schedules, we could turn it around and empower the kids to take some responsibility into their own hands again.

    But it'd take a near-miracle. It'd take people actually seeing how fukked we are, and I don't see that kind of respect for the truth dawning on our population.

  53. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 13, 2012
    2:27 p.m.
    Flag

    THEY'RE getting worse, not THERE getting worse.. F

  54. By airweare (Joe Lamy)
    June 13, 2012
    3:02 p.m.
    Flag

    ImproveLV,

    I don't teach school anymore. I did for awhile, but found it less and less satisfying, and then re-discovered the joy of rebuilding homes with an eye on comfort and energy savings, and I've been hard at it nationwide, bringing lots of folks along for the wild ride.

    I still have family in Nevada and a few cattle and a couple of horses, but outside of that, most of my time wanders off in other walks of life.

    I just enjoy reflecting and suggesting upgrades like I had good sense which I may have had at one time, but honestly, I'm having so darn much fun crawling around old houses that the schoolhouse scene is a big downer, especially when I see so many kids being shafted, so much waste on admin and so few reasons to celebrate accomplishment.

    There seems to be a growing chasm between the rich union folks and the poor teachers. Most of 'em work long and hard for meager crumbs in miserable conditions with uninspired learners and hounds for administration, barking and sniffing and peeing on 'em every chance they get. It's disgusting to me to see my friends treated like fireplugs.

    But ImproveLV, we can agree that the nasty comments do seem to come from just a few snarly and snide cheap shotters, loud-mouths and ne'er do wells. 'Tis ever thus.

    Have fun with that financial sector. Back in the day when I built and sold Real Estate, I also did Mortgage Loans and I do NOT envy you the hours in the financial sector. I'd much rather get filthy crawling into a crawl space where cats go regularly than to deal with a banker or underwriter.

  55. By CCCC
    June 14, 2012
    1:22 a.m.
    Flag

    @By Tanker1975.." I resent the fact that you attempt to tie teachers who disagree with you to "supporting murderous, lying, child molesting, rapist cops."

    @By Jeremiah (Jeremiah Allen.."I don't see anywhere in Sad Teacher's or Airweare's comments that "support murderous, lying, child molesting, rapist cops,"

    Let's review, shall we.

    At 6:23 I offered a suggestion that teachers would garner more goodwill if, rather than crying about what they aren't getting, they join the majority of us who are not suckling on the government teet, and "...spend the Summer demanding accountability from Law Enforcement and slashing the salaries of firefighters," And that if they did so, they would secure "my vote for whatever tax increase you need."

    Less than an hour later SadTeacher responded, "We can use your advocacy - not admonishing teachers - BUT asking for accountability from the district. We support the policemen and the firemen."

    Jeremiah, if you are having trouble understanding the last seven words, I suggest you find an adult to help you out with the big ones. Just don't ask a cop. Their language skills are, on average, most atrociousness.

  56. By Jeremiah (Jeremiah Allen)
    June 14, 2012
    6:12 a.m.
    Flag

    Crimcops, I understood what you wrote just fine. You're using another fallacy: composition/division. Some cops are corrupt, sure, so you assert that they all are. That's a fallacy. Simply because A Sad Teacher and I support the dangerous work that firefighters and police officers do every day does not mean we "support murderous, lying, child molesting, rapist cops". You put those words in others' mouths, which is the strawman I referenced earlier. Then you top off the fallacy sundae with the classic ad hominem, by attacking my reading comprehension skills instead of my argument. You need to stop. This article has zero to do with police and firefighters. Move on.

  57. By ASadTeacher (Nancy Agustin)
    June 14, 2012
    6:40 a.m.
    Flag

    I am going against my own advice and try to explain -- in hopes that my message will be understood even by just one person.

    Mr. Crimcops did not like the phrase, "I support the policemen and firemen.." but he failed to include ""They too are victims of politics."

    Ms. Anderson accused me of disrespect for administrators. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have very high regard for real leaders, excellent leaders who help us through the bad times as well as the good. Those are the ones I earnestly support.

    My message to all those who care enough to express their opinion in this public forum is this: Let's focus our advocacy toward ACCOUNTABILITY from our leaders.

    Our founding fathers were visionaries. They laid out a nation where people will be free to pursue """ and happiness. They designed a government that has built-in checks and balances to guarantee our rights and freedom. Our system is by far the best in the world -- in fact the envy of the rest of the world -- engendering enemies who want to destroy it.

    This freedom however, is the same avenue many are using to pursue their own agenda of self-aggrandizement: crooked politicians, policemen, firemen, teachers, lawyers, doctors, CEOs, bankers, mortgagers, financial advisers, union leaders, government employees, and private individuals -- the lot of them. There will always be those, part and parcel of the yin and yang, black and white, dark and light.

    To use a broad brushstroke and spew hatred is self-defeating and a disrespect to all those who truly protect us from criminals, from fire eating up what we work hard for, and for helping little ones learn about life. In reality, there's more of them than those who destroy our faith in our system.

    When I say, redirect your advocacy, that is exactly what I mean. Let us preserve what our forefathers envisioned for us, fight for it as it was intended, and DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY from our leaders.

    Let us continue a DISCOURSE that is PRODUCTIVE and hope it becomes a trajectory for change.

  58. By Roslenda (Roberta Anderson)
    June 14, 2012
    7:16 a.m.
    Flag

    If so many teachers were not so sad and could get around to teaching. Sure some are doing the job but soooo many are NOT. Why can't our kids read at grade level. Arizona's can, for much less money. And they have even more illegals than we do. CCSD needs to revise hiring criteria to include cooperative reasonable attitudes instead of the me first righteousness of the lazy.

  59. By ASadTeacher (Nancy Agustin)
    June 14, 2012
    8:21 a.m.
    Flag

    "Why can't our kids read at grade level."

    Here's a scientific explanation, proven by clinical research, why some children can't read: (I hope it will help you understand.)

    1. Auditory deficits. Children come to school with auditory deficits -- inability to differentiate sounds, either because they were never exposed to a language-rich environment or they speak a different language, or their hearing has been damaged, even slightly by various causes (loud noises, screaming, untreated infections, etc). They cannot distinguish the difference when they hear a, e, i, o, and u for vowels, or the slight differences in consonants such as t and d, b and p, m and n, etc.

    2. Memory deficits. Memory stimulation begins in infancy. For the life of them, some children cannot remember how each letter sounds.

    Fortunately, these deficits can be mitigated through purposeful and error-free teaching. Simply put, auditory deficits can be corrected through interventions using exercises in phonemic and phonological awareness. Interventions require one-to-one instruction at school and at home. Memory deficits can be corrected through memory exercises, also one-on-one instruction at school and sustained at home. With increased teacher-student ratio, absences, indifference, discipline, and lack of motivation, teaching has become desperately more challenging than it is already.

    In ideal situations, the home and the school will work together to help the child. When the home cannot do its part, schools provide after-school tutoring or using volunteers to help the child, while still in school.

    Those are not the only hurdles with which teachers have to contend. The proliferation of electronic equipment and toys makes teaching the basics in phonemic awareness extremely difficult. We are competing with a fast-paced, colorful, and exciting experience, which to some children are definitely more interesting than what we are offering. Their attitude that we, the teachers, are keeping them from it exacerbates the already difficult scenario.

    The culture HAS changed. Society has changed. Children have changed. Yet we have not changed the way we do things and we demand more from teachers without the support they so desperately need.

  60. By Jeremiah (Jeremiah Allen)
    June 14, 2012
    8:59 a.m.
    Flag

    Where does Roslenda get her information? The 2011 NAEP shows Nevada and Arizona scoring about the same, with NV showing a slight edge. That's even if you put any stock in standardized tests as useful summative assessments (You shouldn't, by the way). Roslenda's statement that "soooo many are NOT" doing their jobs is woefully misinformed. Unless she's been spending time in various CCSD classrooms working with the kids, she'd have no idea who is or is not doing their job.

  61. By CCCC
    June 14, 2012
    4:56 p.m.
    Flag

    @SadTeacher..."Mr. Crimcops did not like the phrase, "I support the policemen and firemen.." but he failed to include ""They too are victims of politics."

    What difference would that have made. The very notion that you support the police, who murder innocent, unarmed people at will, use government vehicles for out of state joyrides, use their position of authority to sexually assault women without accountability, all the while raking in more six figure salaries as "victims" is all I need to know that, any cause you support is one of a purely entitled mindset.

  62. By CCCC
    June 14, 2012
    4:59 p.m.
    Flag

    @Jeremiah

    "Crimcops, I understood what you wrote just fine. You're using another fallacy: composition/division. Some cops are corrupt, sure, so you assert that they all are."

    Did I really? Please provide the quote where I assert that All Cops Are Bad. You can't because I don't, so it is you who "put those words in others' mouths," now isn't it.

    That fallacy is yours and your alone. I simply noted the fiscal waste of "$10 million in settlements and salaries for bad cops." Metro's budget far exceeds $10 million, clearly indicating I do not assert that "all cops are bad."

    I then suggested teachers earn some public goodwill buy spending the "Summer demanding accountability from Law Enforcement and slashing the salaries of firefighters..." Still no assertion that all cops are bad, just that those who are, are not held accountable.

    SadTeacher responded with an unwavering statement, "We support the policemen and the firemen." Not "Although there are some bad cops, in general, We support the policemen and the firemen." Nope. Her statement was absolute and all-inclusive.

    He/She doesn't distinguish, s/he supports all the policemen and firemen. By your own admission, you to believe "Some cops are corrupt.." so her unqualified "support [for] the policemen and firemen.." is also support for the "murderous, lying, child molesting, rapist cops" whom are not being held accountable for their misdeeds.

    Remember I only suggested teachers protest Metro's failure to hold such officers accountable, to which Sadteacher told me she "support[s] the policemen and firemen.." That response shows she even supports the ones that are not being held accountable.

    Therefore.

    Some cops are corrupt,
    SadTeacer supports all cops.
    Sadteacher supports the corrupt cops.

    Sorry you felt that I topped "off the fallacy sundae with the classic ad hominem, by attacking my reading comprehension skills instead of my argument," but your response shows that your really didn't understand those seven words, and since your argument exists simply because of your poor reading comprehension skills, there is no way to attack one while leaving the other unscathed.

    Now, since it isn't germane to the discussion, I will not get into the fallacy contained in the unsupported, unsubstantiated and untrue statement concerning the "dangerous work that firefighters and police officers do every day." Other than to state, unless the majority of American's work jobs fraught with peril, utilizing the descriptor "dangerous" when discussing police work is both incendiary and baseless.

    Much like most of the teacher's arguments here.

  63. By BrookeLogan (Brooke Logan)
    June 14, 2012
    6:12 p.m.
    Flag

    Clark Crim Cops really does have a sound argument. If I were a teacher I would be FURIOUS over the fact that firefighters are paid so much more than teachers. Not to mention that they don't have to pay anything for their continuing education courses that they take online (probably while working). Uneducated firefighters and police officers are indulged, pampered and grossly overpaid yet you consider them to be fellow victims. I want to support teachers but I can't bring myself to stand up for anyone who is comfortable with the status quo at LVMPD or CCFD.

  64. By ASadTeacher (Nancy Agustin)
    June 14, 2012
    6:27 p.m.
    Flag

    "I support policemen and firemen. They too are victims of politics."

    That is what I said. Please stop and understand the whole context and try to think deeper what that means. There are thousands of them and only few are corrupt. Please reread my post and try to understand it.

    Several studies in Great Britain found:

    People with below average IQ tend to be conservatives.

    Following your syllogisms, let me posit this to you:

    People with low IQ tend to be conservatives
    Conservatives are mostly Republicans
    Republicans have low IQ.

    Would you agree to these syllogisms? (I don't. I know many intelligent Republicans.)

    I am sure you won't either because generalizations are dangerous.

    When one makes a statement, there is a tacit assumption of 'within the norms.' It is never assumed to include anything outside those parameters.

    Your posts require some thought processes to come up with what you come up, but please let us be reasonable and stop the attacks. It really is unnecessary. We can argue about ideas, but we still must show respect for each other. After all, civility is what separates us from animals.

  65. By CCCC
    June 15, 2012
    12:19 a.m.
    Flag

    @SadTeacher ""I support policemen and firemen. They too are victims of politics.

    Please stop and understand the whole context and try to think deeper what that means."

    Does it mean something different than you support policeman and fireman and consider them to victims of politics? Because that is what I took it to mean.

    And, once again, I have not said that all cops are corrupt. I stated the more than $10 million has gone to fund settlements and salaries because of corrupt officers at Metro, and that teachers could garner a lot of public good will if they protested at Metro and demanded they hold corrupt cops accountable.

    Your response "I support policemen."

    Not I TEND to support policemen.
    or even

    MOSTLY I support policemen.

    the key words in your syllogisms that weren't in mine. These qualifiers are not in your statement of support for policemen.

    People with low IQ tend to be conservatives
    Conservatives are mostly Republicans
    Republicans have low IQ.

    Would you agree to these syllogisms? (I don't. I know many intelligent Republicans.)

    If the first assertion is true, then, yes, I would agree that MOST Republican TEND to have lower IQs. Having not met a large enough cross section of British voters, I couldn't tell you if that's accurate.

    It could be one of those fishy internet Hoaxes, like the one where George W. Bush had the lowest IQ of any other president, or the one where Obama was born in Kenya. I wouldn't put much faith in its veracity. And, not being British, I coudn't care less, really.

    If you are interested I can tell you that in the last presidential election the majority of High School Drop Outs voted for Obama.
    So then,

    The majority of High School Drop Outs voted for Obama.

    Those who voted for Obama are dedicated liberals.

    Police officers are not required to have a high school diploma.

    Police officers are liberals who voted for Obama.

    Now, let's see how much the police support you and your liberal friends. Because most cops view themselves as die hard conservatives, despite all evidence to the contrary, and don't support the "bleeding heart liberals" that demand they treat the public with respect.

  66. By Roslenda (Roberta Anderson)
    June 15, 2012
    12:14 p.m.
    Flag

    LEOs and firefighters perform a useful service, some to most of the time. But I'm not suggesting they are worth what we've been paying. Teachers in CCSD K-12? Some of them most of the time. Many of them are too busy networking and posting. Small classes for decades and they were unable to teach young children to read and write. And they think the same sorry arguments will work. Even young mothers and fathers are onto this nonsense. Face it folks, we have to cut taxes until our economy can function. We must dismantle all those expensive K-12 programs and over-compensated public servants and get back to some free enterprise where those who work, invent, put out the product get paid well and get to enjoy the rewards of their efforts.

  67. By CCCC
    June 16, 2012
    12:39 a.m.
    Flag

    Yant was paid $143,479.01 ($1.7 million settlement)
    Alan Hirjak $142,085.97
    Darrin Densley $176,127.66
    Greg S. Theobald $161,475.
    Steven Radmanovich $129,584.82
    Edward Little $108,892.71
    Richard Dean Goslar $188,571.55 ($125,00 settlement
    Brett Seekatz $161,930.57 ($300,000) settlement
    Bob Rogers $172,177.96,
    Jerry Montes $168,059.29
    Bob Lewis $275,254.75 The last three are responsible for a ($900,000) settlement

    A Sad Teacher supports paying these criminal cops more than $1.8 million dollars last year despite the fact they have cost us more than $3 million dollars in settlements.

    And he/she wonders why we won't support him/her agenda.

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