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Monday, May 9, 2011 | 7:17 p.m.
Sun Coverage
The Clark County School District wants to consider more than just seniority when it decides who to lay off -- including whether teachers or administrators have a criminal record, something not currently allowed by state law.
The Senate Education Committee heard Assembly Bill 225 and Assembly Bill 229, which would change the employee system that teachers and administrators function under, commonly called tenure.
Those bills are sponsored by Democratic leadership but are likely to get caught up in the tug-of-war over the budget and efforts by Democrats to reduce through tax increases the cuts proposed by Gov. Brian Sandoval.
Even with tax increases, Democrats say there are going to be cuts to state services, like K-12 and higher education. In preparation, the Clark County School District offered an amendment Monday to the education reform package that would allow districts to consider more than just seniority when determining who gets laid off. The districts would consider:
• An employee’s attendance;
• Performance evaluations;
• Discliplinary history;
• And whether they have a criminal record.
Those factors would be considered along with seniority, said district lobbyist Joyce Haldeman. State law already allows teachers to be dismissed for “cardinal sins,” including felonies, but it can be difficult to get rid of those with lesser offenses.
Some senators were startled that the district could not currently get rid of someone with a criminal record.
“We don’t hire people with criminal records,” Haldeman told the committee.
Sen. Barbara Cegavske, R-Las Vegas
“But you don’t have the ability to dismiss them?” Sen. Barbara Cegavske, R-Las Vegas, asked. “Oh, my.”
The bills proposed by Democratic leadership would upend a long-held system that critics say has made it difficult to get rid of poor teachers. Under the bills:
• Teachers and administrators would be evaluated on a four-point system of highly effective, effective, minimally effective and ineffective. Currently, teachers are only evaluated as satisfactory or unsatisfactory.
• Teachers and administrators would have a three-year probationary period when first hired, during which it would be easier to dismiss them or not renew their contract. Currently, most teachers get tenure after one year.
• Teachers and administrators with two consecutive years of unsatisfactory evaluations would be placed back on probationary status.
The bills passed the Assembly earlier this session, but with criticism from both Democratic and Republican lawmakers. Some Democrats said it unfairly targeted teachers. Republicans said the changes don’t go far enough.
John Oceguera
The bills are sponsored by Assembly Speaker John Oceguera, D-Las Vegas, and Assemblywoman Debbie Smith, D-Sparks.
The Assembly bills represent Democratic leadership’s proposals to reform the state’s education system.
The law allows tenure, formally called “post-probationary status,” to be granted within two years, but the second year is commonly dismissed. A review of records by the Las Vegas Sun found that, over the past five years, 95 percent of new teachers in Clark County were granted tenure after their first year in the classroom.
Sandoval has called for the elimination of tenure. Senior adviser Dale Erquiaga said the changes proposed by the bills represent “a good first step” though the administration has additional amendments it would support, including:
• Elimination of a law allowing teachers and districts to ignore certain provisions of state law if it conflicts with their collectively bargained contract.
• Requiring 50 percent of a teacher’s evaluation be determined by test scores.
Right now, Smith said Assembly Bill 222 would create a committee to develop the teacher evaluation process.
Assembly Bill 555, which contained the governor’s more sweeping education reforms, received one hearing but has not come up again.
Smith and Oceguera have been targeted by the Nevada State Education Association, which represents teachers and support staff, for their proposed reforms. On Monday, teacher’s union lobbyist Craig Stevens said the union opposed changes for new or probationary teachers because it would make them essentially “at will employees.”
“You could have a bad day on Thursday and get fired on Friday,” he said.
Smith said: “We do not have an epidemic of bad teachers. What we have is a system that needs to be reworked.”
During the boom, Smith said, Clark County hired 25,000 teachers, recruiting anyone willing to journey here from across the country and world. The slowdown in growth offers an opportunity for reform.
Smith said she has worked on these reforms with administrators, teachers and business groups for over a year. “They’re important to me personally,” she said.
But she acknowledged that some Democrats want reforms tied to an increase in education funding from what Sandoval has proposed.
“There will be people here who would have a hard time supporting major changes when others are not at the table,” she said. “We are at the table. We are serious about cutting budgets. We’re serious about reforms.”
So far, Republican lawmakers have been either unwilling to negotiate on taxes in exchange for reforms or have said that Democrats’ reforms to education, collective bargaining and employee benefits don’t go far enough.
The Senate Education Committee will consider the bills again on Wednesday.
After 38 years of teaching I can handle these reforms but to think that the Republicans, and Smiley Sandoval, have offered nothing=NO!
so what happens if you teach a subject that isn't tested? or you teach a grade that isn't tested like in elementary school? do those teachers get a free pass on that section of the evaluation? so all they have to do is show up and not have murdered someone to get a good evaluation? and how do they propose to fairly evaluate a teacher whose students are chronically absent, suffer from hunger, unstable home life, etc. vs. a teacher whose students drive to school in automobiles most teachers can't afford?
Who and why would any young college graduate would want to be a teacher in the state of Nevada I ask. Twenty years ago I would here students say I want to be a teacher, now fast forward and the idea of being a teacher is laughable. The public perception of teachers has been destroyed by the conservative base. Good luck in finding quality/caring teachers in the next 5 years. I believe you will have a very hard time recruiting quality teachers in math/science. Thanks for reading this post.
I wonder who (the state or the district) is planning on spending the money on creating some type of test in every single subject in the district so that ALL teachers can be evaluated on test scores. I would assume gym teachers wouldn't be evaluated on the results of a student's writing proficiency score or a history teacher evaluated on the student's math results, but I could be wrong. Does this mean that students will be taking tests in their music, art, gym, history, speech, computer, and any other class that they take? Or, does this mean that the math, English, science, and elementary teachers will be held to a different standard than all of the other teachers?
Also, what about the attendance requirements? Teachers get 15 days of sick leave a year (admittedly, an insane amount), a flex day (for religious holidays) and up to 4 personal days (depending on attendance). So if my son is sick, and I take sick leave granted to me by my contract, I could be fired? If I take my personal leave, or my flex day, I could be fired? That's a very slippery (and scary) slope. I can understand a teacher taking unpaid leave, however...
Which is the better teacher, a math teacher who teaches AP math classes and has all students pass the Math Proficiency, or the teacher in an alternative school, who raises scores for all students, but doesn't have all students pass the Math Proficiency? How do you evaluate based on test scores?
So criminal record cannot be considered for layoffs? This is what you get with public unions.
Do away with the unions, so the cream can rise to the top.
To the poster who says the conservatives attack teachers...wake up!
The unions have hurt the reputations of teachers.
Why would any young teacher want to get in the field when they could be layed off so that a criminal with spotty attendance keeps their job.
Unions have corrputed and ruined every place they go.
Unsilent:
Have you read the CCSD employment contract? No where in the contract does it prohibit the school district from firing employees based on criminal conviction.
When a teacher is hired, they are required to submit to a criminal background investigation by both the Nevada Highway Patrol, CCSD PD and the FBI. Teachers convicted of crimes while in the employ of the school district can most definitely be terminated because of their conviction.
The whole "can't be laid off because of criminal record" b.s. is a red herring designed to dupe people like you into being pissed off at teachers and their evil, commie union.
If the school district admins and law enforcement do their jobs properly, there shouldn't be any teachers with felonies working for the school district to lay off. However, even if someone passed the initial background check, the district can fire any employee with a record or new conviction for cause.
The fact is that it is very easy to get rid of someone with a criminal record in the SD. The union has nothing to do with it. But I guess it is easier for dupes like you to scream about the evil unions instead of looking at the facts of the matter. Way to go.
How about fire all those worthless gym teachers? Look at the rampant obesity and you can see the gym teachers are not real effective at getting them kids active.
Yes, let the school have more power over the teachers. They have done such a wonderful job with education this far. Forget about it. Public education will never get better. it is just a bloated, dead fish stinking up society.
@buckbundy. The gym teacher has the kid for 50 minutes per day. What about doing something about the time they spend parked in front of Xbox360 after school and all weekend, while pigging out on chips and soda? How about parents pulling the plug and telling the kids to get out and play. Oh yeah, that requires involved parents.
@rejecto. I am a teacher. Why don't you come and do my job for a week, then you can tell about how worthless public education. Interested?
@ Mark. Good call. Its my fault that a middle school kid has, at a maximum, 1.5 years of PE and at a minimum 1 year of PE during middle school since its optional in the 7th grade. There are schools that don't even offer it in the 7th grade and the rest offer it as an elective. This means that I am supposed to get a kid to be "physically fit" in, wait for it because I did the math for you, 13500 minutes over 3 years. Seems like a lot, but it averages out to just 12 minutes a day over 3 years. Thats not enough, but when you consider the fact that based on a 50 minute class period that would mean that every second of every class for the 90 days per year they get PE they are active. Forget that we have to allow them time to dress into PE clothing, take attendance, deal with disruptions such as students who don't want to play, or students who's behavior (which comes from home) is a constant disruption and kids being pulled out of class for all sorts of nonsense. Forget about the fact that class sizes in PE are much larger than in the classroom, at times double. I know that nice number for class sizes is thought to apply to everyone, but thats unfortunately not the case. My SMALLEST class is 40 and my largest is over 60. Before you tell me that its my job to deal with this consider that this isn't a complaint and I love my job. Its important for the public to be informed about what they are talking about. You are more than welcome to make comments about whatever you want, but at least have some facts before you make ignorant comments like the one you posted. Its been said on here often, but if you think it is so easy, come do my job for a day and you will change your mind. If you had any interaction with the youth of this town you would understand how difficult a job any teaching position is and you would stop making a fool out of yourself.
Chunky says:
Teachers like any other employee should be hired, fired and managed based on their overall performance as well as their criminal background status. They should be subject to drug testing as well if not already.
Parents are the ones who should be held responsible for their kids performance. Teachers should be given a stronger say in classroom control, punishment and behavior issues as well.
Too many of our children have been raised as spoiled little brats and the teachers are stuck with them.
We still have to balance the budget so it's great to finally see some ideas on how to cut the deadwood out of the system. Chunky would rather see that money go to teachers who are the best overall employees.
That's what Chunky thinks!
Again gym teachers are to blame for childhood obesity. I guess the powers to be don't take in account that a gym teacher spends 45 minutes twice a week at the elementary level, 45 minutes 5x's a week with 6th graders for one semester, the other semester is for computer literacy. Not to mention a typical P.E. class has 70+ students. Hmmm...I guess the p.e. teacher is making meals now. When are we going to stop blaming teachers for outside influences beyond their control? 50% is excessive when teachers have no control of students beyond 50 minutes A DAY in middle and high school.
Also, FYI, 15 days "sick" days includes the flexibility to use the as personal or flex..those are not additional days. Bereavement also takes away from your sick leave as well. When my father passed they took my sick days as bereavement for me to travel and attend his funeral.
Chunky...I think drug testing would be a way to "weed" out dead weight. But, on another note, I am sick of all this chatter about bad teachers. Their about two bad teachers in each school...out of the average 40 on staff. So, the other 38 are busting their a**. Society is so focused on the roughly 2% of ineffective teachers that its forgetting the other 98%.
As for tenure, that's just a way to get rid of EFFECTIVE senior teachers who are at the top of the pay scale. Seasoned teachers like myself are effective and do believe that their needs to be reform, but their needs to be a balance. Just because I have been teaching longer doesn't mean that I have lost my sparkle.
Here's the problem....you have administrators who have their "favorites", they keep discipline off their records and always give them exceeds standards ratings. How are you going to change that? Good ole' boy system is firmly in place and is not going away anytime soon.
Oh yes, lets blame your child's obesity on his or her PE teacher. The teacher has the child a 2-3 times a week anywhere from 45-90 minutes a day. You have your child 365 days a week feeding him or her endless crap. What exercise do you give him or her after school or on weekends? Always passing the buck to the teacher. Education begins at home folks. Let's get rid of the crappy teachers, but parents need some accountability too. The work ethic among these teens in my classroom is horrible. Where did that come from?
I want to know who is evaluating the principal. Why aren't teachers ever asked by whoever is doing the evaluations of administrators what it is like working under a specific principal? Until administrators get evaluated properly, some schools are going to flounder because the principal really does have a lot to do with the school environment.
Tanker 1975 asked "I am a teacher. Why don't you come and do my job for a week, then you can tell about how worthless public education. Interested?"
Please tell me you're not teaching our children English Composition.
Yeah, these ideas are worthless and will only make issues worse for the system. Here's another wrench for the machine. What tests are you gonna use to evaluate fine arts teachers. They aren't out there yet. And are you willing to pay the costs for coming up with the tests? If student achievement is going to be a part of the retainment process, who will come up with these assessments for fine arts and other non-core teachers? Sound like a stupid idea that will cost more money.
Imagine owning a business and not being allowed to fire an employee who is a thief! Can it happen? You bet! A bus person working in an off-Strip casino restaurant who was caught stealing food servers tips was reinstated after being fired because of union intervention. How'd you like to be forced to work with such a dishonorable person?
So sad that we are trying to change the rules of the game under the pretense of balancing the budget. This just sounds like Union busting to me.
"We don't hire people with criminal records," Haldeman told the committee.
Unless it's the son of two prominent former CCSD administrators, then his felony drug conviction doesn't matter. Then he can get caught stealing money from student funds and still keep working for CCSD. Until someone is willing to look at the corruption and incompetence of the CCSD district level administration, nothing will ever change. Blaming teachers for the problems of the district is a convenient smoke screen.
Can anyone tell us the current number of ACTIVE teachers with a criminal record?
There is an error in this article.
Sandoval's plan doesn't call for using test scores (which implies end of year score only or reaching some preset benchmark)for teacher evaluations it calls for value added assessment which doesn't look at the students test score but the growth in the individual students achievement. That is, students are compared only with their own past scores rather than other teachers.
One must consider Jon that those 15 days of sick leave a year are vital for teachers to accumulate for leave such as pregnancy leave. When 90% of your employees at the elementary level are women, this is necessary in order to keep your classrooms staffed.
First, let me encourage you to read the section, "See all comments," as you will read many comment penned by those teachers or folks who are currently WORKING IN THE SCHOOLS. By doing so, it will bring some balance in perspective.
No matter the industry, the employer will utilize techniques towards getting more "bang for their buck." Keep that in mind. You have senior teachers out there that have put years of best practices teaching, volunteer work, and their heartfelt care for students and their communities. They are younger and grow older, used, unappreciated, turned into near slave labor, forever being "asked" to do something, but not receiving credit, appreciation, or acknowledgement. It happens more than most think. The employers solution: get a new employee with energy, work them hard. Same results. Then, do what is going on now.
Furthermore, disseminate all and any forms of misinformation and propaganda. Hire the likes of Ms.Rhee to "advise and consult" the new Governor on how to treat people and be successful.
Like it or not, "the WAVE" hit Clark County hard with a diverse population that predominately is second language, has problems acculturating to American society, and has negatively financially impacted our social system of basic services as education, medical care, housing, and law enforcement.
Teachers face many challenges. They DO NOT have the choice of who is placed into their classroom: English speaking: able to read, write, or speak it. Then compound it with lack of parental involvement. That manifests itself with poorly performing students either academically, behaviorally, or BOTH! Try visiting a public school classroom to check this fact.
It is highly unfair to evaluate teachers working with at-risk students by the same evaluation standards. It's apples and oranges. Liken to comparing a feral cat to a domesticated cat, if you get my drift. Many teachers at Title 1 Schools are quite concerned about this disparity, and rightly so. Most in the public are unaware of this issue. Now you know.
Please take the time though, to read through, "See all comments," as there are many coming forward, courageously so, because education is on-going for all intelligent life, and it is vital to support life-long learning in the best possible way. Thank you.
Those of you that can read this article fluently with comprehension need to stop and thank a teacher for helping you achieve something so essential to your life-the ability to read.
I wonder where those naysayers would be without their education and why they think it's acceptable to take it away from this generation?
Some ex-con teachers can instruct well. They came from the School of Hard Knox.
I support using criminal convictions and disciplinary matters in determining which teachers are not retained. I also support giving teachers and administrators more flexibility in removing students from classrooms who are not interested in learning. If a student is repeatedly disruptive and shows poor attendance let their parents pay to send their child somewhere else. Let the taxpayer funded public schools focus their attention on those who want to learn.
The schools do not conduct criminal background checks, if this is so, that is why CCSD has been having problems. CCSD is in bad shape because the union controls the most important aspect of education, the hiring and firing of teachers, your education is only as good as your teachers. Teaching is not about making friends, or being concerned about your pay and benefits. Its about quality education. You only get quality by hiring quality. State needs to change education and its not about funding. I hope the state legislators passes every bill that will improve education, starting with the teachers.
express445: Gee, I wonder why I had to pay to get my fingerprints done when I applied for a job with the school district.
@Express445. I don't know how I got hired then. I was never interviewed by the union. I was interviewed by the Human Resources Department of CCSD. Anybody else interviewed by the union to get hired?
How do you define a quality teacher? Is it the AP Math teacher whose students all pass the math proficiency or is it the teacher in an alternative school who raises the scores of all students, but not all pass the math proficiency?
If you want to hire quality teachers, then make pay and benefits, the best in the country. You will have quality teachers beating your doors down. Right now, we have some of the lowest pay in the country, but you are right, it is not about the pay. Most, if not all teachers knew that the pay would never make us rich. What makes us rich beyond measure is hearing from a child "Thank you, I'm graduating."
Thanks Tanker1975...I wasn't interviewed by the union either. Clueless people have no idea that being in the union is OPTIONAL. Those of us that participate have done so based on a PERSONAL decision. Those of union that have chosen to work in industries that are private and not unionized that WAS YOUR CHOICE! Leave my choices up to me! Anyways, I paying part of my salary since I am a taxpayer too!
@Express445...CCSD is in bad shape because you get what you pay for. If the district continues down this route, they will ultimately lose out on the best and the brightest!
By Gr8teacher
May 10, 2011
11:29 a.m.
Flag Thanks Tanker1975...I wasn't interviewed by the union either. Clueless people have no idea that being in the union is OPTIONAL. Those of us that participate have done so based on a PERSONAL decision. Those of you that have chosen to work in industries that are private and not unionized that WAS YOUR CHOICE! Leave my choices up to me! Anyways, I paying part of my salary since I am a taxpayer too!
@Express445...CCSD is in bad shape because you get what you pay for. If the district continues down this route, they will ultimately lose out on the best and the brightest!
PAHRUMPteacher: we were not taught to read in school. We were taught to word-guess. Most of us gained comprehension skills on out own. I wanted to read because I saw my father reading, not because some "teacher" forced me to word-guess.
We should grade the governor based on his ability to get along with the Demicans
rejecto: I was taught how to read in school, not "word-guess." Where did you go to school? I went to school here in Las Vegas.
Apparently the Clark County School District has no problem utilizing their right to discriminate against their employees when it comes to retaining or declining the continuance of their services.
: {
Rejecto,
Learning how to decode words (matching letters and their phonetic sounds) is not "word-guessing." It's through those basic processes that we learn how to read, spell, and write. Comprehension is taught in many contexts in our schools. However, I know for a fact that many of our children are NOT receiving continuing education at home and that's what really makes the big difference. Teachers have children for 7 hours a day. What do you think is going on for the remaining 17 hours? Literary circles? Reading groups? If you believe so, you're sorely mistaken. Educating children is not just a teacher's job-it is the job of the parents and community as well. Teachers cannot raise America's children. Let's make sure everyone is doing their part before we start pointing fingers.
When teachers are observed at their desk all day long, that is a "bad" teacher. When a teacher works his/her tail off to students who 1) don't speak English, 2) have no parental influences (positive), have teachers that get no parental support, then it's a problem. If that teacher works their tail off but is not on the "favorite" list, then it's their job. Get fired for using sick days that they are allowed?
Do you think that teachers who give your child a treat "for behaving" or are handed their lesson plans, handed anything pertaining to their lesson, handed pencils, paper to give to the child that is never prepared for school (but usually has a cell phone), are not paying for these things with their own, person money? I HIGHLY encourage you to take even a day out and visit a school. Problem is, those that make it the comments against teachers, won't do it.
Evaluating a teacher's performance based on test scores in this way will: prejudice teachers in low-income neighborhoods; prejudice teachers who teach English as a Second Language students in their classes (which can be as high as 25% in some of CCSD's schools); and will motivate good teachers to get out of the more challenging schools, leaving the students most in need with the least qualified teachers. Some more sensible approach would be to "scale" the test based on demographic factors (such as ELL students); and allow teachers at certain "crisis schools" to be evaluated differently.
In sum: one size does not fit all, and that's the major problem with this bill. Let's hope it becomes a platform for the right kind of discussions toward genuine reform of educational philosophy (embracing, for example, concepts of "transitional literacy" in curriculum revision; or seeking much better assessment tools than the current "teach to the test" mandates of "No Child Left Behind"). God help us: there's a lot to do. What I most wish is that ALL sides of the political divide in our state could come together with parents, teachers, and students and work in harmony toward effective reform. Let's hope.
And give yourselves the news: Sandoval's chain-saw massacre of the K-12 budget will pre-empt any effective, genuine reforms.
Didn't think so.
Joe Lamy: How's the country club life at the trails?
CCSD has 4,000 administrators to evaluate teachers--you'd think they'd have various means to figure out which ones are great, good, adequate, ineffective. We don't need to micro manage SD decisions on each teacher. If they don't make the grade any time during the first ten years of so, OUT THEY GO, WITHOUT APPEALS AND PROCEDURES. It is NOT up to the taxpayer to retrain new teachers who made the WRONG CAREER CHOICE.
@roseanrose. Ok, which teacher should be fired, assuming everything else is equal. The AP math teacher whose students all pass the math proficiency or the math teacher in an alternative school who raised the scores of all students, but not all students passed the math proficiency?
Tanker: Fire the teachers that CCSD administrators say are ineffective. I've seen where they test the kids at the start of the year and again at the end of the year, so they know if anything takes. Further, the administrators evaluate teachers based on class room PERFORMANCE--you know, like OTHER SUPERVISORS EVALUATE THEIR SUBORDINATES. Get it, teachers are SUBORDINATE to the administration and to taxpayers. No due process during trail period of 5-10 years--like many many professional jobs in the private sector. Actually, in the private sector, many professional jobs are fire at will....
@roseanrose. How do you evaluate classroom effectiveness? In the scenario I gave you who is more effective? How do you measure "classroom performance"? FYI, I have been a supervisor and a subordinate. Please share your thoughts on what is effective classroom performance. For most high schools in CCSD, the make or break tests are the proficiencies.