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Sunday, Jan. 23, 2011 | 2:01 a.m.
Brian Sandoval
John Oceguera
Sun archives
- Calls to end teacher tenure are bipartisan (9-23-2010)
In the acrimony over how to improve education in Nevada comes this argument: Teachers win job security, called tenure, long before their mettle in the rough-and-tumble world of classroom instruction has been sufficiently tested.
The law allows tenure to be granted within two years of a teacher’s employment in Nevada. The Sun has found that, over the past five years, 95 percent of new teachers in Clark County were granted tenure after just their first year in the classroom.
The Washoe County School District wants to put the brakes on granting job security so quickly. The district, which serves Reno, is asking the 2011 Legislature to pass a bill to make new teachers wait at least three years before earning “post-probationary,” or tenure, status.
The bill would also make it easier to fire teachers and administrators during those three years.
Washoe County, over the past five years, has given tenure to 88 percent of its teachers after one year.
Superintendent Heath Morrison said only two other states offer tenure to teachers after one year — Hawaii and Mississippi.
The majority have a three-year system.
“A three-year period is the appropriate amount of time to make that tenure decision,” he said. A one-year decision forces “snap judgments” that he said are not fair for either teachers or students.
Bonnie Parnell, former chairwoman of the Assembly Education Committee and former Nevada Teacher of the Year, had a visceral reaction to the numbers of teachers who get tenure after just one year on the job.
“Eww.”
“I don’t think any teacher is really able to show in the first year what they’re capable of,” she said. “Three years is a good time to observe whether they understand what’s expected of them, the demands of the job, whether they’re enjoying it.”
Nevada’s tenure law requires three evaluations in a teacher’s first year by an administrator. If the teacher is deemed “satisfactory” in all three, the administrator can recommend to the district that the teacher be granted tenure. If the teacher receives an “unsatisfactory” in one of the evaluations, or if the administrator wants to eyeball the teacher some more, the teacher is put on a second year of probation. At the end of that second year the administrator either recommends tenure or the teacher’s contract is not renewed.
Tenure has been the outgrowth of an idea that educators should be protected from arbitrary dismissal by changing school leadership or political trends.
Teachers and administrators say tenure at the K-12 level is different from that enjoyed in higher education, where it’s virtually impossible to fire tenured professors. Instead, defenders of the K-12 system say it’s about setting up due process rules to protect teachers’ rights.
The Clark County School District says it has fired 32 tenured teachers over the past five years for misconduct that includes theft, falsifying an application, falsifying student records and threatening a supervisor or co-worker.
It has not offered contracts to 171 probationary employees over the past five years because they came up short on their performance evaluations. The School District has had just over 18,000 licensed personnel each year for the past four years.
Gov. Brian Sandoval has called for an end to teacher tenure altogether, as has Assembly Speaker John Oceguera, D-Las Vegas.
Assemblywoman Debbie Smith, D-Sparks, said one year was not sufficient to evaluate a teacher.
“For so many years, we had to hire virtually every teacher the district could sign on,” she said. “Now we need to fix the system.”
The discussion on tenure reflects a larger pushback from public officials against the perceived strength of teachers and their unions. President Barack Obama’s “Race to the Top” grant competition forced states, including Nevada, to change laws and allow test scores to be linked to teacher evaluations.
Lynn Warne, president of the Nevada State Education Association, said the system works and ineffective teachers can and should be removed if they can’t improve — even after they earn tenure. “We don’t protect bad teachers,” she said.
Warne blamed administrators for waiving the second year of probation too often.
“The process that is in place is a good one,” she said. “Unfortunately, administrators do not practice and apply those procedures correctly.”
The Clark County School Administrators Association executive director, Stephen Augspurger, sees this bill as part of the larger trend to blame teachers and administrators for poor student performance, even though there is no evidence to make that link.
“What we currently have in place works well,” he said. He challenged the significance of 95 percent of first-year teachers getting tenure.
“How often should it happen?” he asked. “If it was 80 or 70 percent, would that be better? I’m not sure that’s a legitimate way to judge the system.”
Firing ineffective teachers is considered such a cumbersome process that some administrators avoid it altogether, educators say.
Steve Hill, past chairman of the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce who serves on Sandoval’s transition team, said educators should be treated like other employers.
“Like any pool of people holding a job, some are great, some are adequate, and some shouldn’t be in that job, or not allowed to continue in the job without being retrained,” Hill said. “That’s what happens in every other occupation in the country.”
Hill said the chamber members “feel that tenure is something that should be earned after a longer period of time at a minimum and potentially be not used as a concept at all.”
What the Hell does Steve Hill know about education,teaching or anything else closely related to schools. He wants cheap, illegal alien labor in all occupations. Allow the illegals from south of the border to continue to invade Nevada, that is all the COC is really driving for.
Nevada does not produce college graduates, let alone teaching candidates.
You cannot attack the profession (taking away security and compensation) and expect outsiders to want to relocate.
To do so is to make sure Nevadans remain a permanent underclass.
When a popular Governor and a Speaker of the Assembly with support from both parities want the same thing expect it to happen.
Who says tenure is even a good thing?
Too many fuddy-duddies do next to nothing for decades, retire and call it a life when in fact their contribution to human development was purely rote, motorized robot crap that monkeys do.
Why does tenure exist??? Ans: to give lousy teachers a chair to occupy in the warm school building while the kids waste their most productive moments doing little or nothing.
I say evaluate every teacher every year and throw away the losers before it's too late.
New gizmoes move into the market every day. Do you want your kid stuck with an Etch-A-Sketch or a slinky while the others are computing? Riding a donkey instead of a car?
Toss tenure. The good teachers want it that way because it benefits the children, you know, those small ones whom the teachers are there to serve.
"Firing ineffective teachers is considered such a cumbersome process that some administrators avoid it altogether, educators say."
Spot on.
The vast majority of teachers in Clark County love the kids they teach and are good at what they do.
So why do we waste so much time and money protecting people who are not cut out for one of the most important professions?
The 'straw man' argument, that somehow every teacher would be fired if not for the current onerous process of protecting those who should not be teachers is pure sophistry.
If a teacher can't teach, or won't do their job, they need to move on. Putting up hurdles, like TWO YEARS of 'probation', is insane!
"The Clark County School Administrators Association executive director, Stephen Augspurger, sees this bill as part of the larger trend to blame teachers and administrators for poor student performance, even though there is no evidence to make that link."
Is this quote right?
Did a union boss just say there is no correlation between how good the teachers and/or principals are and whether or not the kids learn?
And you wonder why we have a problem.
I see NO PROBLEM with 3 years to tenure.
That said, the BLAME GAME is indeed being played at a very high level here.
If citizens were more involved with the changes in education they would be more concerned with what school districts are doing to their children.
Teachers have little autonomy left. Districts tell teachers what to teach, how to teach it and when to teach it. All this under the guise of "data driven education"
Data driven means if your child does not do well on tests they are failing. If parents had any idea how many tests children are subjected to in one week in a classroom they would (or should) be angry.
Clark County has many excellent teachers-if you want to meet them stay after school or come by the school on weekends. They will usually be there trying to meet the demands of the massive paperwork now expected.
Ask any "good" teacher-s/he will tell you the greatest obstacle to your child's education is the school district's crazy, unrealistic, mandatory "data driven" testing requirements. Evaluate district curriculum choices and district directives to teachers. Those two Master's Degrees I earned? The district doesn't really care what expertise I have in understanding and developing an educational plan for your child, I am to teach what I am told to teach.
Citizens know very little about the educational system in Nevada and, as usual, looking for bad guys, pointing fingers at teachers is the simplistic and ignorant way to do it.
Why do I stay? I love teaching children. Whatever the challenges and obstacles, kids are amazing learners and the future of our planet.
AssemblyDistrict21, what many people do not realize about student performance is that, as a teacher, I can do my best to teach and motivate but I cannot force a student to learn or to pay attention. I do not follow them home to make sure they do their homework. I can give them their make up assignments when they are absent, but I cannot force them to do the work and turn it in. When I have a class that is 50% over state class size limits, I cannot monitor each student to make sure they are doing the best job they can on a test. I have asked my administration what to do to motivate the reluctant learners and I have been told that, as long as they are not distracting the class, it is their right to sit and do nothing. When we will start having dialogues about the student's responsibility to pay attention and learn? I do my job and teach, but many of my students are not willing to do their job and learn.
And Doolish1, Nevada DOES produce college graduates and college ready students. My household has four of them!!
Plain and simple, The Clark County School Administrators Association executive director, Stephen Augspurger should be fired.
Ideally there should be no tenure. But to compromise 3 years to earn tenure is a start (college professors take 5-6 years and even then only about 1/3rd earn tenure).
After that tenure status should be awarded on a 3 year contract basis based on the rolling average of value added student achievement (3 years helps smooth out bumps in case of a single bad year behind the teacher's control).
Yes administrators should also be held accountable.
"Teachers have little autonomy left. Districts tell teachers what to teach, how to teach it and when to teach it."
One of the biggest problems in my classroom is the district. I have administrators ask my opinion and do the opposite. Then I am hung out to dry when it fails.
"Those two Master's Degrees I earned? The district doesn't really care what expertise I have in understanding and developing an educational plan for your child, I am to teach what I am told to teach."
Absolutely. I routinely have adminstrators, who have never taught my subject, tell me how to teach. But I don't know what is worse. The person who did teach my subject and couldn't hack it? So they opted out. They always use one of two excuses: "I wanted to take my career in a different direction." or "I can make a more effective change as an administrator." That is code for, "I couldn't hack it."
No person in education affects students like a classroom teachers does. Not even close.
Clark and Washoe can probably recruit any teacher they want, provided that they pay market rates. But the rural counties have problems getting teachers. How many people are going to relocate at their own expense to the middle of nowhere, where the prices for almost everything are higher, and where you have to drive for hours to get to a city large enough for you to buy what you want? And then, be faced with the cost and expense of looking for a new job elsewhere just in case you might not get tenure?
The big point is that Tenure/no tenure/when tenure should not be a matter of State law. It should be decided by the local school districts who know what they need and can act more quickly and sustain their efforts longer than a Legislature that meets for 120 days every two years.
I wonder if they thought about the rough neighborhoods, where surviving is more important than learning. A good example is in the movie The Substitute. I haven't heard of how they expect a child to learn especially if they just don't want to.
Excellent teachers thrive with excellent administration. I have doubts that some administrators can adequately assess a teacher's ability without bias. Many good teachers leave because they are not supported by administrators and are tired of being babysitters to kids who are disruptive, disrespectful, and dissociated. Other teachers are harassed and intimidated because they dare report or question an administrator's actions.
Teachers appear to be scapegoats for poor administration, students who don't care, parents who blame the school because they have no control at home, and society's view that school is just a social event - learning is lame. I think many have given up hope that anything will change in CCSD because no one has the guts to make the hard decisions. Let's hope Dr. Jones can get this district headed in the right direction.
Understanding The Problems Our Schools Face
http://cc-nsc.com/?page_id=569
This squabbling between the reps of different entities with absolutely no willingness to understand or compromise is exactly why the system doesn't work and won't work. This is not a new problem. This is a problem spanning back 3 decades in Nevada.
Do away with Tenure all together. There are thousands of qualified teachers that would love a job in any area of the CCSD.
END CLASS SIZE REDUCTION. We cannot afford it. CSR does NOT WORK. Teachers MUST START TEACHING OUR CHILDREN TO READ--by the 4th grade or there is little point in the next 8 years of K-12.
I hope the comment about Augspurger, and somehow stating that teacher quality isn't correlated to student performance, wasn't taken from a direct quote. That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I can't believe some of the comments from teachers on this board, that essentially make it sound like he system is strong and it is working. Do you really think that the entire reason why we're LAST in many categories, is parental involvement, or other factors other than teacher quality? I really can't take you seriously when you don't acknowledge that teachers/administrators play a major role in the performance of the kids. It's a clear case of passing the buck, and if you're not willing to be accountable for your work, then I think you should find a new job. In my opinion, you have the most important job in the state. If you won't acknowledge that you can have a positive effect on these kids, then you shouldn't be teaching. If that's the mentality of a good portion of teachers, then the good teachers will never be paid what they deserve.
Take some responsibility for your work. If you honestly don't think that teacher quality matters, then you're overpaid. That's obviously a stupid theory, and the good teachers are well underpaid.
Too many of these excuses make it sound like all teachers are created equally. I've never had a job, been a student, played on a team, been a parent, or really done anything where everyone was equally effective. There are always underperformers, and it's amazing how much of an effect they have, even if they're a small percentage of the entire population.
As a parent and community member that's extremely concerned about the poor quality of the education system in this state/county, it's extremely frustrating to read some of these comments. Stop being so defensive for a second, think, and try to propose real solutions. And solutions won't be acceptable (at least to me and many community members) if they don't acknowledge that accountability is important. And if you distract from the issue, and focus on how "parents aren't getting involved", then you're not serious about working together to find solutions.
We need parents to be more involved. That's a tough thing to enforce and tough to measure success. Making sure that employees/teachers are doing their job and performing well is much easier to address. We can't stop people from having kids, but we should be able to fire someone from their job if they suck at what they do. Sorry, but you need to get on board with some of these theories.
@improveLV: "It's a clear case of passing the buck, and if you're not willing to be accountable for your work, then I think you should find a new job."
Teachers don't have a problem with being accountable for their work. What teachers do have a problem with is the possibility of their pay being tied to test scores without certain questions being answered. For example, how is the school district going to adjust for students who don't care and refuse to do any work? Is the transiency of a student going to be taken into account? How are other teachers going to be evaluated if they are not math, science, or English teachers? For some reason, those issues are never addressed by the politicians and/or the school district. Darn straight teachers are wary, but it has nothing to do with not wanting to be held accountable for their work and everything to do with making sure that the evaluations are fair and adjust for factors that are beyond a teacher's control.
Shannon, first off, my previous post was a bit overboard. I was just blown away by some of the posts. I apologize to you and the other teachers for my approach. I hope you know that I respect good teachers more than I do any other profession.
That said, the "how are we going to evaluate art teachers?" type of questions are legitimate, and those teachers would probably depend primarily on reviews from their managers/peers. While it's a legitimate question, it's not a reason to do away with the program for teachers that DO teach math, science, and English, since those are 3 of the most important classes, and math and science are two categories in which the US is falling WAY behind our global competitors.
About the students that don't care...I think that part of the job of a teacher is to engage students. I certainly wouldn't expect miracles, but you're comparing year over year improvements for that particular kid, and it sounds like these value-added modeling systems take many other factors into consideration (detailed demographic data, among other things). I think when these consulting groups come in, they should meet with teacher representatives to really explain how the logic works. I just hope the representative isn't just waiting for an opportunity to poke holes in the logic, and they look at the big picture and realize that it can be slightly tweaked as time goes on. I doubt those small tweaks are going to make the difference between a teacher getting fired or getting a raise, it will just be a constant adjustment to really get it as close to perfect as possible, so that teachers are properly rewarded.
It's not like this is the first time these types of evaluations have been proposed or implemented. Of course we can see the results in DC after Rhee made her changes (I realize people try to find ways to spin different results to show that her changes made no difference, but when we look at data for math and reading scores that the NCES posts, they had the biggest gains of any territory). She may have been a bit too harsh and confrontational, but I agree with many of her ideas. I think we need to use what worked, and get the teachers/admins involved instead of just telling them what's going to be done.
I'm not just talking about getting rid of teachers that commit a crime. I'm talking about getting rid of bad teachers. We've all had teachers that simply tell us to read the book and then give us a test. Those teachers serve no purpose. We've also had teachers that make classes interesting, no matter how difficult those classes might be. Whether it's science experiments, field trips, group projects, etc. We know that there are some incredible teachers that need to be rewarded, and teachers that just take up a slot that could be filled by a very competent, effective teacher.
@improveLV: "I certainly wouldn't expect miracles, but you're comparing year over year improvements for that particular kid, and it sounds like these value-added modeling systems take many other factors into consideration (detailed demographic data, among other things)."
You and I would think, but having worked in the school district, that's not a given. It makes me very skeptical that those factors are taken into consideration because no one has ever addressed it. There's usually a reason for that...because they aren't in fact taking them into consideration. It's a huge reason why teachers aren't embracing this wholeheartedly. It should be addressed to alleviate those concerns.
As to your comment about engaging students, of course, that's what teachers are supposed to do. It's apparent, though, that you have never taught a class with some students who absolutely refuse to do anything, no matter what you do. That's not the teacher's fault and they shouldn't be penalized for it. It's like basing doctors' pay on how well a patient follows the doctor's advice to take care of themselves. The doctor can encourage and provide the information, but they can't make the patient do anything. Same thing with teachers.
There should be no such thing as tenure.
Shannon, I've talked to consulting firms that do the value added modeling, and that's the whole concept (using various demographic data). I said "I think", because I don't know which firm the district is talking to.
I'm not a teacher, that's true. I've implemented performance based compensation structures in other fields, and it's amazing how effective it is. Teachers often explain how different it is in education, but I think humans are the same, and motivated in a similar way, no matter what they do professionally. I've also dealt with union based industries (hotel/casino) with generic compensation structures that apply to everyone, and it's amazing how different the mentality is in those two systems. I'm telling you, if you're good at what you do, you WANT to be reviewed and recognized, and treated differently than the slackers.
Again, the "engaging students" comment doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge that you can only do so much. you can lead a horse to water...as they say. But again, if we're looking at the same student, chances are they had the same mentality the previous year, so it's less likely that the scores are going to go down dramatically. Of course there are the complete, uncontrollable variables, like drama at home, but that's the same in any industry. In my experience, it's just very rare that it has that big of an impact, especially when you take all of the other logic into consideration and look at your entire group of students.
What we have now is not working. Many studies show that advanced degrees have little to no impact on the effectiveness of the teacher, so rewarding for simply getting a piece of paper from a tier 3-4 school doesn't seem to make sense. Laying off the newest teachers automatically seems stupid, since many of those new teachers are really effective, and a lot of the older teachers are just a waste of space. I say that based on classroom visits I've done in the district for another project, and of course my personal experience as a student.
I'm not an expert on teaching, and I acknowledge that your personal experience trumps my theories and "statistics" on the subject, but the union leaders are not offering any productive ideas, and in my opinion, it's obvious that they'll resist any reform, regardless of its potential effectiveness. The only goal of the district is to educate the kids, and the union leaders are only concerned with employing people and keeping those employees happy. They're unable to objectively look at the issue and offer any real solutions that really consider all options.
"Do away with Tenure all together. There are thousands of qualified teachers that would love a job in any area of the CCSD."
People don't want to live in Vegas. I'm younger and single so I would, but people who are not from Vegas do not want to raise a family in "Sin City."
I have applied to teach Chemistry next year and CCSD informed me that for the entire county I am in a hiring pool of 12 yes TWELVE qualified people. So you are 988 short of just ONE thousand.
Do away with tenure and keep attacking the profession and you think you have bad teachers and low performance now????????????
The idea of those who can't... teach.... or anyone can teach.... well with the way the government is attacking teachers soon you all will see how untrue those statements are.
As a person who had a rigorous elementary and secondary school education at "Union Free School District No. 1" in New York, and as a person who benefited from an excellent public and private education through the doctoral level, I must reiterate my view. The Clark County School District is the second-worst public school district I have ever encountered. I believe that teacher and professional administrator tenure is a significant contributor to CCSD's abject failures.
I have watched as two young women who are family members, one very bright and one a special education student, have battled their way through CCSD's uncaring bureaucracy. Both of them have encountered teachers who are illiterate, venal, demeaning, racist, incompetent or who simply didn't give a darn about discharging their duty to teach these kids. The number of bad teachers they have encountered is far greater than they number of good, caring teachers. UNIFORMLY, ALL OF THE ILLITERATE, VENAL, DEMEANING, RACIST AND/OR INCOMPETENT OR INDIFFERENT TEACHERS WERE TENURED TEACHERS.
The number of helpful, responsive, accountable "professional" school administrators in the CCSD who our family and our students encountered can be counted on one hand. ALL OF THE UNHELPFUL, UNRESPONSIVE, UNACCOUNTABLE PROFESSIONAL ADMINISTRATIONS WERE TENURED.
In contrast, Union Free School District No. 1's students were the children of factory workers and tradesmen. So good was the school system, in each graduating class of 1200, at least 10% went on to Ivy League or equivalent colleges. Bad teachers did not receive tenure. Tenured teachers were still under the thumb of very stern, demanding principals who could fire them with little cause. The teachers produced excellent results "or else". I will never forget the leader of our high school's math department who was tenured. She came to school hung over on a Monday. She was terminated by Wednesday of the same week.
Since CCSD is a profoundly failing school system, and since the vast majority of Nevadans who are employed are at will employees, I see no reason why teacher tenure should not be abolished entirely. Each tier of the education hierarchy should be free to terminate his/her subordinates without cause, i.e. at will employment of administrators and teachers.
Nevada's teachers and administrators will never be meaningfully accountable for their actions and inaction unless tenure is abolished and until each parent is entitled to take 100% of his child's pro-rata share of state funds for primary and secondary education in the form of a voucher, and spend the voucher at a school of his or her choice. As "customers" and "voters" all of us know that we are free to take our patronage and our votes elsewhere if we are displeased. Nevada's parents must be given that same opportunity to punish bad teachers, bad administrators and bad schools by taking away pupil driven revenue.
After I read all of the education-jibberish and excuse-filled comments" from teachers, I re-focused on the following story content:
"The Clark County School District says it has fired 32 tenured teachers over the past five years for misconduct that includes theft, falsifying an application, falsifying student records and threatening a supervisor or co-worker.
It has not offered contracts to 171 probationary employees over the past five years because they came up short on their performance evaluations. The School District has had just over 18,000 licensed personnel each year for the past four years."
Obviously, neither the story's author nor any of the commenters realized what CCSD has admitted. In the last 4 years, NOT ONE TENURED TEACHER WAS FIRED FOR INCOMPETENCE, LAZINESS OR ANYTHING ELSE SHORT OF CRIMINAL CONDUCT. Not even 1 out of 18,000. That should have been the headline of the story.
Lazy, burned out, and incompetent teachers, who may have been "just swell" when granted tenure while young, ARE just kept in their jobs or shuttled from one campus to another.
Governor Sandoval is right. Abolish tenure.
Cheers to that! When Nevada begins to show that it can turn out educated students then, and only then, should teachers begin to see rewards.
Cynical makes an excellent point. The Sun has been having a great time beating up on the health system in Las Vegas because it's scored them some awards but the Clark County School District is rife with all kinds of problems that go well beyond simple incompetence or lack of funding. A long and sincere analysis needs to be made regarding just what the hell is going on in these schools here. Our future depends on it. Literally.
Cynical moron: There are 18,000 employees. In the last 4 years, how many of those 18,000 were up for tenure? A great majority of employees are already tenured. I'm sure with this budget issue and dropping population there has been some level of hiring slowing or hiring freeze. That means even LESS are up for tenure finishing up their 1st or 2nd year.
It does not mean 18,000 people are granted tenure every year. Whatever system you came out of obviously did not teach you reading comprehension very well.
When you were making 6 figures during the boom you laughed at the teachers for making a pittance. Now those 6 figure jobs have dried up, you bought a 300K house you had no business buying, and you are unemployed, defaulted, and angry the teachers still have jobs.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
-JD
I also do not understand how Nevadans attack the teachers so easily when the parents are uneducated and do not care about school. They don't force the kids to show up, study, or expect them to go to college. From what I've read in this paper, 80% of Nevada is not college educated. The high school attempts to prepare a student for college, not for work.
Our schools are not geared toward vocational training. Kids who are 17 and not going to college simply do not care about Economics, Chemistry, Literature, or Calculus. So how will those kids behave in those classes?
If you're going to attack the teachers, you need to start fining and imprisoning the parents.
If the student has poor attendance, discipline issues, and under 2.0 GPA, you get a ticket similar to a traffic violation every semester. If there is a 3rd offense, how does 15 days in jail sound?
"Shared sacrifice!"
But no I do not expect the public to go for that! That's too close to home! Should I blame myself??? It cant be ME?!?!?! But who to blame??? Easier to blame.... SOMEONE ELSE! It can't be MY fault??? Yea that's much better! I need someone faceless and easy to blame... hmmm..... Something everyone can go along with and agree with......
It's the SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's the entire catastrophe - uneducated mom and dud, incompetence in the classroom, school board room and principal's office, culture of get-rich-quick, booze an' babes with cleavage and Calvin Klein.
Where is the desire to develop strengths when weakness remains the dominant theme? Why try when not trying is almost as good?
Rewarding expertise in the land of greed and lust is tantamount to fukking for virginity, if you get my drift.