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Friday, March 25, 2011 | 2:05 a.m.
School budget cuts
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KSNV coverage of presentation of tentative Clark County School District budget, March 24, 2011.
People pack a Clark County School Board meeting Thursday, March 24, 2011, to hear details of a proposed budget that would cut $411 million from the district, resulting in layoffs, pay cuts and increased class sizes.
Carolyn Edwards
Sun coverage
Sun archives
- Assembly passes bill to use reserves for school construction (3-3-2011)
- Regent says it’s time that K-12 shares in budget sacrifice (2-8-2011)
- Education in forefront of upcoming budget battle (1-30-2011)
- School officials warn of jobs cuts, larger classes under proposed budget (1-26-2011)
- A steep climb for Nevadans (1-26-2011)
- Soft words during State of the State hide Nevada in pain (1-25-2011)
- Teachers not pleased with most of Sandoval’s speech (1-25-2011)
- In response, Democrats say taxes might be part of budget solution (1-24-2011)
The mood was somber as Jeff Weiler, chief financial officer for the Clark County School District, finished a presentation Thursday night at a School Board meeting.
Sitting in front of a standing-room-only crowd, Weiler served as the bearer of bad news: As part of a tentative 2012 budget, $411 million would be cut from the district and nearly 2,500 employees would lose their jobs.
The tentative budget includes a 7.8 percent reduction in salaries for all employees, a 25 percent cut in funding for textbooks and supplies, a 20 percent cut in administrative department budgets, an increase in health insurance costs for employees and an increase in class sizes by three to seven students.
“I think this is outrageous and I think there should be a swell of protest by the public,” School Board President Carolyn Edwards said of the budget developed to address education cuts in Gov. Brian Sandoval’s overall state budget proposal. Sandoval has vowed not to raise taxes.
“We have a governor who is well-intentioned, I believe. However, I think he is misguided,” Edwards said. “He has made a political promise in the campaign that he feels obligated to stick to that will devastate the education system...in this state. We will not be able to build an economy that will sustain itself without an educated populace.”
Those attending the meeting applauded.
“You should not be allowing this to happen,” Linda Young, vice president of the board, said to the packed room. “You have a voice; you voted them in. You can vote them out. I mean, enough of this is enough. We went through this last year. What are we going to do? Go through this again next year?”
Officials said the proposed layoffs would have a ripple effect on the already struggling economy.
Applied Analysis calculated that 2,486 layoffs would translate to 5,593 jobs lost in southern Nevada, with $889 million in annual lost economic output.
“For every one position we cut, there would be a ripple effect in the economy of 2.25 people,” Weiler said. “Obviously, if we have to cut more positions in a Plan B scenario, that multiplier will go up.”
John Carr, president of the Education Support Employees Association, said he was “getting sick just sitting here.”
“I’m amazed that we’re asking for a $400 million budget cut when the governor put in the paper that he’s only asking for $200 million statewide,” he said. “Why does Clark County have to cut $400 million...when we’re one of 17 school districts?”
In addition to layoffs, the proposed budget projects class sizes would increase from 18 to 21 students on average in first and second grades, from 21 to 24 in third grade, from 30 to 35 in fourth and fifth grades, and from 32 to 39 students in grades six through 12.
“I am disgusted with the thought of having to put one more child in any single classroom,” board member Deanna Wright said. “It’s unworkable now; it’s unmanageable. You talk about people having classroom issues, well, you know what? You pile people so high, they’re not going to behave.”
Wright elicited applause from the crowd after talking about the inequity that teachers on the “bottom rung” will face from proposed pay cuts.
“We are now perpetuating the working poor,” Wright said. “You’re taking those lowest people on the rung of pay and asking them to contribute something that is potentially devastating to their families.”
Finally, Sheridan Rodrigues, an accelerated first-grader at Staton Elementary, took to the podium with his mother, Chantal Rodrigues, and pleaded with the School Board.
“Please don’t increase class size. The teachers cannot teach, and I want to go to a great university,” he said. “I love my teachers and my school and what they have taught me. Please don’t take away my teachers and class size.”
The adoption of a tentative budget will be held during a school board meeting at 8 a.m. on April 6. The State Economic Forum meets on May 2, and a meeting to adopt a final budget will be held at 5:30 p.m. May 18.
does anybody know how much money brian sandoval takes from mining???
the anger and outrage are there...
SOMEBODY FRICKIN ORGANIZE THE PARENTS!!!
The bright side indicates several new prisons, great positions for corrections officers, parole and probation officers, lawyers, bail bonds, pawn shops and wrecking crews to dismantle the meth houses.
Add to the beauty of destroying the tomorrows the greater need for social workers, psychologists shrinks, quacks and mental health wards chock full of dismay and broken hope.
Then there's the redemption disguised as revolution, rising from the ashes and disintegrating the facade of civilization that has been perpetrated by those who benefit from disallowing generations to flourish in the 'land of the free and the home of the brave' - where tomorrow, the gaunt shadow of what could have been bombs and obliterates those backwards leaning bastards into kingdom come.
Ted Turner is known for comments like 'Stop doing dumb things. Start doing smart things.' Uh, Nevada, why are you doing this??
Does the future of the children mean so little to you compared to the eight cents per child we are saving by lumping a concert full of chaos into one classroom that this actually appears to be a SMART thing??
You have forsaken the future for a dime; you are discarding aces to get deuces.
Whatever happens in .. stays on this planet for a lifetime, multiplies and evolves one way or another. Expect disrespect, anticipate anarchy, and look into the shadows for the end of the light.
No new taxes!
In the past week, we have heard the laments of School Board President Carolyn Edwards and how there "should be a swell of protest by the public." We are hearing it, and we are seeing that cry fall upon the deaf ears of our Nevada State Governor Sandoval.
The very sad thing is, a huge majority of affected children are those of Mexican/Hispanic/South American nationals, who, habitually, as a rule, say nothing. Sure, they faithfully bring their children to school and make sure their children attend. They will attend free school activities to show they are supportive of their child learning.
Now, the casino unions know how to convey to these folks how to protest. Maybe it would do the school district well to follow THAT MODEL, as it does seem to WORK!!!!
Nevada is spending millions of dollars on ESL and trying to help these children make AYP, why not start working with teaching their parents on how to support the school district?
In the absence of immigration laws being effectively enforced, and all employees being E-VERIFIED by the government, and in view of current stats from the US Census on the GROWING population of Hispanics/Mexicans/South Americans/Cubans, it would be a smart move to start adjusting the way we do business and live in Nevada.
hey carolyn edwards...
you are wrong dear...
brian sandoval is an evil man...
a fraud...
the son of mexican immigrants who now dumps on current mexican immigrants...
a man who would rather see foreign mining companies grow richer at the expense of the innocent children of nevada...
a unr graduate who now wants to gut it...
brian sandoval is a bad bad man...
don't be fooled by the smile...
it is a fraudulent smile...
a nervous smile...
an arrogant smile...
a f'ed up smile...
BRAIN SANDOVAL IS A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FRAUD!!!
Birdie last I saw the state of Nevada's constitution reads that .5% tax on all mining profits will assessed. In 2009 Harry Reid was asked to help our state by going to the mining companies, explain to them our situation here in Nevada, and tell these Corporations that they will have to start paying 1.5% tax on ore extracted. This would have made our state rewrite our state constitution on mining laws. Harry Reid stated that it wasn't his job to help our state and to have our state legislators talk to the mining companies. Even after these mining co's had contributed thousands of dollars to Harry for his reelection campaign, Harry couldn't help our State. He can spend time rubbing elbows with these people for campaign contributions, but he has no time to talk to them when it deals with our state.
Birdie I'm sure the mining companies, who are all mostly based in foreign countries, are contributing money to any politician who will help them.
Why do politicians feel that we should at any time cut the funding and/ or staff making up our school system? The future of our country depends on our children.
Oh, that's why.
I guess I feel lucky to have a job. But then again, I've worked hard for my job for 20 years. I have years of school and several degrees. I also had a contract that previous teachers already sacrificed for -- they gave things up to put assurances in writing for times like these. If feel like all those previous sacrifices are now in vain, despite teacher's attempts to think ahead. Teachers like me are daily making a difference for the long term in this state.
I grew up in Winnemucca. My family worked in mines. I know it was important for them to have those jobs. But I also know that the mining corporations were ruthless. They pull out; they don't stay. If they feel noble, they donate a building here and there - which I know now didn't cost them a thing because they deducted the cost. Mining corporations do not plan now or ever to invest in the long term in Nevada. It's a shame that they don't sacrifice a single thing -- EVER. They are here for as long as there is gold and don't plan to do a single thing that doesn't benefit themselves.
Why not just shut down the school system for a year -- call it reorganization.
In the process, increase class sizes. It will make it easier for a student to "hide" among 39 of his peers and do nothing. Most classrooms don't have room for 39 desks. First come, first serve, the rest sit on the floor.
Good teachers don't come cheap. Sandovol thinks that all teachers should be limited to a bachelors degree. Getting additional education to become a better teacher was the only way to get a salary increase. The expense of additional education is on the teacher, and they are willing to do it. Good bye incentives to becoming a better teacher.
Homework will become a joke. If you can't get a student a text book to take home, say good-bye to reading, say good-bye to homework. You are playing into the hands of the students who don't want to perform. NO homework, NO reading, NO studying. NO success.
If you want parent involvement, eliminate athletics and extracurricular activities. If you want parent involvement, make them pay for any class that their child has to retake due to failure. Make a four day school week, parents will scream when they don't have a "babysitter" on the one day a week when school is not in session.
Where has common sense gone?
...and so again our state and county who are feeling a monetary crunch fail to act on the illegal immigrants who are not only taking jobs away from our citizens, but are milking our city, county, and state services dry. Our politicians are letting this happen and should be charged with aiding and abetting federal criminals.
When our elected officials know there is a problem, but fail to uphold our laws, they are just as guilty as the one's who are breaking the laws.
I realize no matter what we write here does not make any difference. The powers-that-be will continue wielding its power no matter what the masses say.
They promised jobs. The voters believed them. I guess there was a typographical error. The word "to cut" before jobs, somebody erased to win elections. Congratulations!
Egypt, Syria, Libya, and now Nevada. Anyone care to join?
CALLING ALL TEACHERS! LET'S DECLARE THE WEEK OF APRIL 1 - APRIL FOOLS DAY. We are the fools. We are trying to make the future bright for all these children, but we are simply fooling ourselves. THEY DO NOT CARE!
I WAS WONDERING IF WE COULD ALL STAY HOME AND WALLOW in our misery. Would someone please come to my classroom and WATCH the kids? Do you think casinos, where most of our students' parents work, would not mind if parents stayed home to watch their children? I want to stay home and weep, for a week.
Our salary will be cut
Our benefits will be cut because we cannot afford
the premiums
I have students loan to pay
My house equity went poof!
My insurance went sky high
It costs an arm and a leg to gas up the car
Our credit cards' APR has been raised
Food costs more
Clothes cost more
Everything else costs more
Our classrooms only fits 20 and we need a space
for more
We have to spend more money to buy supplies for more students
We have to manage more students
We have to tutor more students
We have to discipline more students
We have to grade more papers
We have to meet with more parents
We have to prepare more materials
We have to prepare more report cards
And, these are only a few of what we do!
Many teachers will be affected by the RIF. Many of the excellent teachers we have are first and second year teachers! They are the ones the ax will hit!
Where is justice?
That THUD you hear???
That's Nevader hitting the bottom.
No Educator with the sense that God gave a Billy Goat
will step foot in this state for the purpose of educating your kids.
Many of those that are already here will see this as the last, great indignity of Nevada's Race To The Bottom.
When you're sick, do you cut way back on your medical care in hopes of getting better?
Nevader, put your DUNCE CAP ON and go sit in the corner.
You have failed your children MISERABLY.
Sandoval in not well-intentioned. He wants to be like Tim Pawlenty. Pawlenty was governor of Minnesota for 8 years. He did such a lousy job that he was replaced by a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT. Pawlenty left Minnesota with a 5 billion dollar budget deficit. However, he did say no to new taxes. That is what he's running on. So what if he did a terrible job and left Minnesota with a 5 billion dollar budget deficit, he said no to new taxes. That's what Sandoval is going to do.
Last year Obama cut payroll taxes. The Republicans tried to kill that bill. I saved about $1,400 on last years taxes. Obama tried to extend it in December, but the Republicans were sucessful in stopping him. That's correct folks, the Republicans were against cutting taxes for small business people. Would have helped any employer who doesn't pay undocumented workers in cash.
If Republicans like Sandoval are so against raising taxes, why did they fight so hard to stop Obama from cutting taxes for businesses?
Nancy:
I don't see how your situation is any different than that of most others in this state, regardless of their occupation. People are being asked to do more with less in all walks of life. You are no different than anyone else.
What are you going to do today to change things?
There are a few ways which the district can reduce expenses without sacrificing the education of our children.
I offer these ideas:
1. Eliminate bussing for high school students. The RTC could provide reduced fair for students. As our state ranks among the fattest population the exercise of walking or riding bikes to school would be beneficial.
2. Allow for open enrollment, students should be allowed to attend any high school, with the proviso that if the school is not in their zone the school can refuse.
3. Provide ESL classes for non English speaking students at a limited number of schools, i.e. four, one in the North, South, West and East areas of the district. These would accommodate all students from grades I thru twelve. Parents would be responsible for transportation.
4. Privatize the sub service. The private schools all obtain their subs from private organizations. This would allow for, Significant cost saving without reducing educational staff and would
5. On-Line register of substitute teachers, with their credentials and specialty, which allows the school to choose the candidate with the proper educational credentials. Currently, you can have subs with a degree in physical education teaching calculus. This will also allow for a reduction in administrative cost as the service provider will take responsibility for payroll, workers and unemployment compensation, government taxes, and compliance with all applicable laws.
6. Consider changing some middle and high schools to all boys/girls schools. This type of school has shown to be more effective.
Now add in the $200 (guestimate) million in lost economic output from cuts to higher education, and readers can see the result: Governor Sandoval's kill-the-schools budget will be like hitting Clark County over the head with a baseball bat, with a possible $1 billion plus loss in economic activity.
Is this what voters wanted? More jobs lost, more foreclosures, more misery? And now a community in which young people have limited choices and collapsed opportunities to raise themselves up out of poverty through education?
When you lose a job, or get your wages cut, have to pay into your medical, have to pay into your pension, this is a sad turn of events from 5 years ago when our state was screaming for teachers.
Our politicians are allowing the dumbing down of not only our schools but our society. Time to vote them all out, vote them ALL out.
To Turrialba: take a look at Nobel laureate in Economics Paul Krugman's column in today's NYTimes. This "make do with less" austerity plan Republicans keep arguing for is a complete failure in Europe. The policy you advocate amounts to a formula for economic catastrophe.
Quote (NYTimes 3/25/22): "Portugal's government has just fallen in a dispute over austerity proposals. Irish bond yields have topped 10 percent for the first time. And the British government has just marked its economic forecast down and its deficit forecast up.... What do these events have in common? They're all evidence that slashing spending in the face of high unemployment is a mistake."
hey barrett...
take a gander at this buddy...
http://www.tax.alaska.gov/programs/progr...
and this...
http://www.tax.alaska.gov/programs/progr...
bottom line...
there is a word for somebody who will do whatever you want for money...
and sadly...
carson city is full of them...
it's a frickin joke!!!
@jackiebrown...
"Why do the government unions think that they are a protected species? If you don't like your job, quit! Move! Go Away!"
And THERE YOU HAVE IT...
The lunatic fringe, the TeaNuts, the Neo-Cons, running their mouths with malice aforethought.
They can't see further than the noses on their faces.
"I, ME, MINE"!!!
@jackiebrown, gmag39, how much are you taking out of YOUR pockets to pay off our state debt caused by our elected leaders?
The dumbing down of Nevada continues! This is why Carolyn Goodman needs to be elected. She founded the Meadows school, and never took a salary while she was there. Talk about giving back to her community!
Can we stop making excuses why teachers can not teach? Let's look at HOW THE EXPERTS TEACH--Europe manages to graduate students who can read and write AT LESS THAN HALF THE PRICE WE PAY.
Let's see. That's a licensed educator for every 17 students, including the 100,000 ILLEGAL students. And that's 10 students per CCSD employee. WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS OUTRAGEOUS SPENDING. Population is declining. Enrollment is declining except for illegals.
Here is my .02 cents, not that it really matters. There seems to be some kind of weird vacuum here in Nevada. Where the first piece of advice I received shortly after moving here was "Keep your nose on your own face!" Because everyone does just that there are some serious consequences to that. My kids teachers, bless them, are doing their best with the obscene education plan CCSD has pushed. I see nothing that is going to improve with the school district. That leaves me with another option. To actually reach out to my community. Gasp! What a concept. Believe it or not there are people you can reach out to for other options. I will be pulling my children from CCSD and home schooling them. This is the last year that they will be participating in that nightmare. The elected leaders are doing nothing, and will continue to do nothing. It doesn't matter how much noise people make. Actions speak louder than words, and as soon as people pull together and educate themselves, well..that does initiate change.
Let's see now. Less than 10% cut (when budget includes the $2 billion from LSST, more from federal grants, property taxes...) after 4% increase last biennium. So about a 5% cut and we panic and riot? HAVE YOU HEARD? We have a long-term economic crisis and historic unemployment. We're losing population. Enrollments are declining.
You've been asked before, roseanrose, to provide a link to your ridiculous assertions. Put up or shut up.
LeeG: Why would you assume that CCSD is interested in educating our children? I have no issue with your suggestions, but they are not interested.
you people are losers complaining.get out of this crap hole called neveda now!!!nevada is only good for visitors like me.good god i would never live there!i only visit to party ,gamble,eat and see shows.i help tuor economy.your welcome!!! get off this sinking ship now!!!!
I will not allow my children to be in classes with 40 students. That will be the final straw that has my family moving out of Nevada.
A Nobel is just an example of liberal's giving other liberal's awards. Like a golden globe. Hardly noteworthy.
Taxes are not raised for all those private sector people who took pay cuts or lost their jobs. The people at the public trough think they are special and want taxes raised. Please grow up and realize the money is not there. You act like a bunch of children-like the one's you always complain about in class.No tax increases.
If our school board had any balls, it would pass a budget that meets all of the financial requirements of the district, deficit or not. When local taxes are inevitably increased by double digits to cover the hole, the board should call it "The Sandoval Tax." If that slimy piece of crap wants to protect his buddies in mining and business, the people most hurt by his decisions should drag his name through the mud on every occasion and ensure that his political future is tainted irrevocably by the disaster he and he alone has created.
Call every extra student in our already overcrowded classrooms "Brian's Kids."
Call every teacher who has to go on unemployment because of layoffs "The Governor's Poor."
2500 layoffs will inevitably result in a further spike in home foreclosures in this county. How is that going to help the economy?
8% reductions in pay, plus unknown increases in contributions to health insurance costs will put people out of their homes. My wife will lose $3000 in take home pay alone, not counting any more gouging of healthcare costs. That is three mortgage payments for us.
We live here so she can teach in this school district. Many of the teachers in this district are transplants from other areas of the country. If these cuts go through as proposed, we will leave. Many other young teachers and their families will leave as well.
Clark County School District is by far the largest employer in the state. Massive cuts to jobs and pay will only further erode the economy of this county and push us further into a hole that we've yet to find a way out of.
How is it that a bank is too big to fail, but a school system isn't? Especially when there are billions of dollars of revenue unrealized in mining, lotteries and systematic changes.
That's right... its easier to screw the little guy than to change our great system.
Professor Unger:
Good morning. I am no expert on economics, but let me give your question a try. Perhaps you and others will add to it or correct me as needed.
With all due respect to Dr. Krugman, he is lost in a Keynsian time warp that confuses 2011 with 1930. The concept is that Public spending will lift economies out of recession--deficits are okay during downturns, if you run surpluses during periods of prosperity. This assumes that both phenomenon are short-term and balancing.
The answer to part of your question is "Ich bin Berliner".
Portugal, Ireland and Greece and in deep economic difficulty for differing reasons. The Greeks cooked the books in a manner that more closely resembles Enron than Nevada. The Irish got stuck bailing out fail financial institutions created by a housing bubble created in a nation of 4 million souls that exceeds Nevada by a mile. A government that had no debt 5 years ago is now awash in it. The bankers and bondholders were bailed out.
The common denominator in both cases is the Euro and a system of austerity imposed externally. In the absence of the Euro, the Irish and Greeks would have printed money and there would have been a currency devaluation and inflation. Our friends the Germans work to enforce fiscal discipline among EU members and lets face it they never warmed up to the southern Europeans. The Greeks and Irish are having austerity impose from outside from Germany (okay, technically, it is the European Bank, but the sole mission of the bank is to control inflation.)
The result is money is flowing from Dublin and Athens to keep banks Frankfurt, Paris and Brussels from "taking a haircut" as the Brits call it.
Austerity it seems in the EU is for everyone but banks and bondholders. In Ireland, a homeowner is underwater, and paying for banks that invested in real estate that is underwater and has defaulted.
Whether they work this through in the short-term and it leads to long-term prosperity remains to be seen. In right now it is little more than a payoff to allow both nations access continued access to markets. The alternative of allowing banks to fail and/or printing money would have hurt standards of living.
The US is in fact working on a Keynsian solution. The monetary and spending are at all time highs. The federal deficit is at record levels as is the national debt. We are having our Keynsian moment thanks to Bush and Obama.
I don't see the relationship between Europe and the US at all. Talking aside, by the budget hawks, cutting $6 or $60 billion in federal spending is a joke. The federal government has not tried austerity but soon will. In either case, the situation today is a short-term phenomenon. Revenues are down. We have never tried austerity here.
The long-term prospects are somewhat different, due to entitlement and debt service growth issues. This will take more revenues and reduced spending overtime, or an inflation tax.
What is the point of education?
Is it to make the big businesses all want to relocate here in the land of sluts and drunkenness? It fails.
Is it to empower all the kids to make something of themselves? It fails.
Is it to benefit the community by enriching it with literate, creative folks bringing tomorrow's opportunities to our world?? It fails.
Is it to stabilize the economy?? It fails.
The education can work to help one kid at a time learn one thing at a time for the rest of the time on the planet. Short termers need not apply. With an outlook for your own goals, education will fail every single test.
For some unique kiddo with genes and motivation to become what is possible, education is the only road from here to eternity. And what do we do, we FAIL them 100%.
It is sad to see that people are happy with job losses and salary reductions. I just hope they are not next, because any local economy that loses 100 jobs inevitably loses 20 more as a result.
For Southern Nevada the effect could be as many as 1,000 more in the private sector lose their jobs because the private sector relies on consumers.
The only people 'celebrating' these cuts are those on fixed and low incomes and benefits. Well guess what? Your income is next to be cut or eliminated.
Part 2--Ran out of characters and time,
What does this have to do with Nevada. First and foremost, Nevada relies on the outside world for its economic well-being. The economy will not improve here until elsewhere. Austerity is imposed from forces outside Nevada. Life is easy when others pay our taxes for us.
Second, there is a limited tax base under the existing laws and constitutional stuff. Additionally, the no tax crowd won in November. Austerity is imposed from within. As a society, Nevada has chosen this path and can certainly change when officials decide or the electorate.
This is out world. It is not Krugman, but Nevada.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Sandoval. Although I'm not Reid supporter, he would have been a better choice for governor. Sandoval can only see tomorrow and maybe a year down the road. In four years Nevada will be so much worst off then we are today and then maybe Nevada voters will correct their mistake. Any dem or rep will be a better choice.
It's not possible to believe that the governor and conservatives have the state's best interests in mind. Their insistence on starving government is ideological. Nevada's experiment in market fundamentalism is an exercise in corporate greed. This free-market fantasy protects local businesses as well as the many entities that incorporate in the state. Even out-of-state companies with no physical presence here enjoy the benefits of Nevada's tax climate with no responsibility. Draining public coffers to create private, for-profit schools is the governor's goal. It's about profits, not education.
Governor Sandoval; Repeat the mantra, Cut Cut Cut, Jobs Jobs Jobs!
lvsreader, The stateline awaits you! Good luck on your new destination!
I disagree truthiness. I believe Sandoval only cares about his politcal future. Just say no to new taxes, and he can be like Pawlenty. Doesn't matter how bad a job he does, as long as he doesn't raise taxes, maybe a Republican presidential candidate will pick him to be his running mate in 2016 or later. Tall, handsome, and Hispanic. Vice President Sandoval.
LV5 Steve Brown,
You have hit the nail on the head. Most politicians only care about the next election cycle, therefore they have to stick to a position made on the campaign trail once elected. This is illogical, as a business owner and manager I have to change strategies at any moment. If I stuck to the same position for 3-4 years, even when I could see this was bad for my business I would be in the poor house.
Even the Republican primary for Govenor rejected Gibbons who kept that promise. Sandoval, I fear is going to be a one term Governor.
Then when education really goes into the toilet after all the cuts, will it STILL be the teacher's faults? How much money is spent on the Proficiency and CRT testing? Some of are teachers who graduated without having take those tests...did we need them? Someone is making a HUGE amount of money off of those test when all that money could be put back into the schools. Will, whoever "THEY" are ever, listen to the educators who know what is good for the students in our classes? Could you imagine a teacher being able to do his/her job? What a thought? Did you all know that in the Secondary School if your child does not understand the math lesson when it is taught too bad? It's not the teachers, it's CCSD. They give a calendar when and how the lesson is to be taught and that's it. What happened to being able to teach to mastery? The whole thing irritates me!
Please airweare, no prisons vs schools discussions. What do they have to do with each other? Some very well educated people are in prison, like Bernie Madoff. And incidentally, many college grads will end up in debtors prison because of their toxic student loans. That's worse than prison.
manfromuncle
old timer's line - close a school, open a prison. What do they do when they can't read, write, add or work?? They steal, invade homes, do meth and screw with decent folks. Look at the news; we graduate 40% and the crime rate spirals up and up. There is a correlation between what Kids CAN do and what they DO.
When their brains are bad, guess what unc? They crime out! We jail 'em and buy 'em 3 hots an a cot.
unc,
Geezer's name was Victor Hugo, French poet, playwright, novelist, essayist, visual artist, statesman, human rights activist, kinda of an early day blogger stickin' up for the kiddos and tomorrow.
You got a problem w/ history, facts, politics, schools, prisons, what??
As a Frenchman in America, l'ami = Lamy nowadays.
(the friend = LAY me -LOL)
Came over on a boat, made blue jeans (denims from the place I grew up, DeNimmes, France, near Nancy), sold out to Levi-Strauss early in December 1929, had $10,000 cash when the depression came a'crashing down.
Bought a farm, studied how to get the methane from cow manure into a tank to burn it, shared it in several countries. America didn't much care, but man-oh-man Ghandi went for it and all over India there're several million of 'em. Big in China and Indonesia now too. Been busy for a geezer; friend of Hugo, Beaudelaire, Hemingway, Plath, Angel-pussy Smith and a few others.
A couple of uncle Mohandas lines for the manfromuncle:
"Be the change you want to see in the world."
"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong."
"DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL INVADERS AND THE OFFSPRING OF THESE INVADERS."
a line from Chief Joseph as whitey tracked him down
As a teacher, this is a sad, sad day. This budget cut represents a cut of a little over 20% of CCSD's budget. I don't care how resourceful you are, you can not cut 20% out of anything and remain unscathed. I just wanted to say that while not all teachers are great, there are a lot of really good teachers here who really care about the community and their students.
I put in 70-80 hours a week during the school year; I'm always available for my students, even via email on the weekend. I work very, very hard for my money. If these cuts go through, I won't be able to live here any longer. Not only do I not want my son to be in an unsafe overcrowded classroom, I simply can not afford to live here with a $4,000 pay cut. At what point can we agree as a community that we need to value education? Why is it the most educated states provide adequate funding for their education? There is a correlation between spending and achievement.
If these cuts go through, we will be facing the consequences for decades, not years. I asked my students today how many actually wanted to stay here-- and only a few said they did. Most want to leave because they believe the state hasn't invested in what matters-- education, healthcare, parks, and other measures of quality of life. If you want government to stay completely out of your business, move to Somalia. Otherwise, let's do what we need to to protect education, even if that means raising taxes.
Oh Professor Unger: Have you no response to my answer to your question?
Zetman:
Stay and fight. Some of us have made this choice. We don't agree on how to proceed, but we can all try to make this a better place to live.
T.
Though my family still farms there, I snuck back East to acculturate myself, and I must tell my fellow Nevadans how much fun it is to slurp up some real culture with some of nicest people on the planet. I went to a poetry reading tonight. How many poetry readings even HAPPEN in Nevada?
It was fabulous; the talent and joy of life were effervescent and intoxicating more than a fizzy cocktail with a cheap umbrella delivered by a sleazy bar babe. I know that may be difficult to picture, but the fire in the heart is brighter almost anywhere than the cooling ember of the black hole of Nevada.
Ya see, some people actually VALUE the gifts of the human heart, the treasures of creative composition and the pleasure of entertaining the soul with a connection that simply does NOT occur in the state where my cattle are, my kids and grand-kids play and the great-grand-kids fool around.
My heart is with Zetzman; the future beckons, and sticking to salty sand where Gibbandoval chooses to wreck the futures for a generation or two seems a poor plan for a man with a clan.
Turrialba: I do my share every day!
Geez. I know people will come out of the woodwork and criticize again.
Well, now you know how whining feels like. Now, imagine it being done to you every day, all day long. Get the picture? How much would you want paid for that? $30,000; $40,000; $50,000? Now imagine just 5 of them doing it every day. "I didn't do my homework! I left my book at home! My Mom forgot my lunch! I am sleepy! My hand hurt! I need to go really bad!
People. Stop talking fancy things. It does not solve the problem. Get down to the nitty gritty of things and stop acusing or calling people names.
IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
GO TO THE SCHOOLS AND SEE WHAT IS GOING ON!
When people talk bad about school, they really sound ignorant because what they are saying are not true. I KNOW. I am here in the trenches every day.
To those people who keep harping about the Swedish - European style of teaching. How come you are not educated yourself! You do not have respect and you use the lowest form of argument: Calling people names. If Sweden is so great, why are you here? Go back where you come from.
A Rose by any other name would still smell sweet. You are everything but. I am so sorry you have a miserable life.
LasVegas2011 and many others like him/her seem to believe that teachers somehow don't pay taxes like everyone else...or buy cars...or buy houses...or spend money at Wal-Mart...or go out to eat...or drop money at the casinos. Cutting their pay and laying them off or eventually driving them off completely ("See Ya!") won't help the economic situation in this state any more than laying off/cutting pay/driving off people in the private sector. I never see teachers post on stories about casino employees' pay cuts/layoffs/closings with comments like, "Suck it up and stop your b*tching!". People in ANY sector, public or private, have the right to to b*tch and complain and be upset about pay cuts and layoffs. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen, but that doesn't mean people can't be upset when it does. If it irks you to read about public employees being concerned and upset about their jobs, then go read and comment on some other article. Just move on we all understand and welcome your choice. See Ya!
LasVegas2011: I AM a "regular" taxpayer. I pay taxes, same as you. My family has sacrificed in this recession, just like most. To imply that I'm an overpaid whiner shows your ignorance and shows that people like you are more interested in whining about problems than finding solutions.
It makes me mad. Nevada has MONEY. Nevada is full of gold. Nevada is a world leader in gold mining. But since mining is "hidden" and done out in the desert - it's not sparkly like the casinos so most people don't know how rich mining is in Nevada. Mining makes more money than the casinos. Gold is a limited resource. Foreign corporations come into Nevada and take the limited resources and keep BILLIONS of dollars and leave nothing but holes and poison in Nevada. Gold is up, up, up. When the world is in turmoil, Gold is sold at a higher and higher rate. With every war or natural disaster, Gold becomes the place people invest their money and mining corporations have multiplied their BILLIONS. Mining corporations deducted their every expense in the amount of $4.2 BILLION dollars instead of paying their full taxes. If Nevada had 1/2 of that money - we would have no problem making the investments to make Nevada a state at the top in education instead of at the bottom. Nevada has bent over backwards for this particular industry and allowed mining to take advantage of our state.
Bottom line: Governor Sandoval protects the rich miners and handed the bill to Nevada's children.
Teachers, if you want to wake up the parents in the district and get the attention of the legislature and general public, stage a week long WALKOUT. Take that walkout to the Strip and disrupt the economic activity there just by demonstrating down LV Blvd. Yes, it causes short term economic damage, but I gaurantee that those Casino tycoons will have Sandoval at the negotiating table.
There is no leadership whatsoever in this state and it falls on both sides of the aisle. So you cut this, but what happens the year after that? You can only cut so much before you need to look at other revenue opportunities. I know people are hurting, but seriously, people have the money to spend on Iphones and Ipads or the latest gadget. Dont belive me, go check out the Apple store, this crap ain't cheap.
Also on the subject of taxes, for those of you who parrot the no tax mantra of the Governor or those who are retired and feel that they've already paid their fair share, can I have my Medicare & Social Security taxes back that you guys so graciously take out of my pay? If you're not going to invest in education, then I don't want to invest in your health and lifestyle.
A shoutout goes to those hypocrites who say spending more money on education doesn't produce better results but at the same time send their children to a private school. If money doesn't matter, send them to public school and save yourselves some money!
A CEO, tea partier & union worker are sitting at a table with 11 cookies. The CEO takes 10 cookies and looks at the tea partier and says, "beware of that union guy, he wants your cookie."
"I touch the future, I teach" Christa MacAuliffe.
How many people can say that what I do makes a difference in the life of many children? I can. I am in a classroom every day, teaching your children. I give them paper, pencils, but most importantly I give them hope, encouragement, and a belief that they do anything. I am there, not because of the money, but because I care about your kids. How many of you know what classes your kids take, who the teachers are, and the phone number of the school office? When was the last time you looked at your child's school work? When was the last time you checked your student's grade and attendence on ParentLink? If you are not actively involved in your child's education, you are part of the problem. If you show your children that education is important, they will act like it is important. You're not telling them it is important if you call or text message them on their cell phone during school time. Are you making sure they get to school on time? How many employers will tolerate people who show up late all the time?
How are we going to attract new businesses when we have an education system that is the worse in the country? How are we going to attract new businesses when we don't have the educated skilled workforce they need? We all know how high the unemployment rate is, but what is if for college graduates in the state of Nevada? I would suspect that it is less than 5%.
My stepson is a teacher in PA with a bachelors degree and less than 5 years teaching experience. He is making 65K a year. How are we going to attract teachers to this state when we pay less and have larger classes than the rest of the country?
This is not about what happens next year or the year after that. It is about the future of your children, and your grandchildren. What do you want Nevada to look like in 15 years? If we don't improve the education system, it will look worse than it is now.
"I touch the future, I teach."
Sorry teachers, I can't think about 15 years into the future and what life is going to be like for your grandchildren. I'm only worried if I can pay my property tax bill next July. If it goes up because of what you guys want and I can't pay it, then what do I do? Charge it on my credit card and pay 18% interest? If I miss a payment then I have to pay a $40 late fee? Some people have committed suicide because of their debts, like in the movie "Maxed Out". I'll bet that most people in LV are a hundred times more concerned about $4.50 gas then they are about the future of our kids. Go ahead and criticize them, but you might as well accept it.
Applied disAnalysis is more like it. Back in 2006-2007 they were pumping the real estate market as sound, stable and on the up and up. They had no idea what they were talking about. Sort of like now. No surprise.
To Turrialba: thanks for your thoughtful reply. Your summary of how European nations fell into a crisis seems right: a result of quasi-criminal Wall Street and international traders in the great real estate pyramid scheme, then the need to bail out "too big to fail" banks that were co-conspirators in the crimes.
What Dr. Krugman points out is what to do about this: either spread out deficits over the long-term, with short-term stimulus spending by governments to restore employment until the economy recovers; or to impose drastic austerity in the form of severe budget cuts to reduce deficits. Governor Sandoval chooses radical cuts, a very painful, tragic mistake that will do harm to our state and its people.
"The Sun" points up that cutting education this much will cause an immediate $889 million loss in economic output; add my guestimate of $200 million in lost output from cuts in higher education, and losing $1 billion in output is wrong not only for the pain this will cause for our society, and to laid-off professionals, but because such unprecedented cuts in education threaten to destroy vital infrastructure that took a generation to build, very hard to rebuild in the future.
But the real difference is between money supply theories of John Maynard Keynes and laissez faire, "free market" theories of Milton Friedman. The one assumes centralized banking and government policies have the crucial role and can solve economic crises; the other that a "free market" will fix what government and financial policy cannot. I sat through lectures by Dr. Friedman at the University of Chicago. Friedman spoke in very ideal terms, of hypotheticals, then applied his hypotheses as critiques to government and banking historically to prove his points. He drew out a vision based on Adam Smith for an utterly unrestrained, unregulated "free market" system rooted in "self-interest" in which the "free market" would rule the economy.
The problem: there is no "free market" in the 21st century; not one in energy (controlled by cartels, mega-companies); food not free (controlled by global agri-business); nor telecommunications (ATT merger); technology similar (Microsoft); and we all know about "too big to fail" banks. About the only "free" market is the one on e-bay. Our world has become as economist John Kenneth Galbraith prophesized in "The New Industrial State": the line between big business piracy and elected government has disappeared.
The solution must come from citizens taking back society from this piracy; and from economic policies based on the well-being of the community, and the health and prosperity of the people, with long-term social policies including supporting equal choice and opportunity for quality education made available to young people based on hard work and merit, for enduring values.
We are doing a disservice to our society and our economy when we cheat the children, but the bigger sin is the discarding of the children.
They will become awfully smart little thieves, devious crooks and unabashed abusers of our society - and ya know where they got the sentiment that spawned this attitude of antagonistic arrogance towards the greater good??? - that's right - cuts in education, uninvolved parents and a society that treated them, as Unger points out, as pirates treat property - worthless little nothings.
We plant and we reap. Those little urchins with sore hands in Nancy Agustin's classroom who have to pee SOO bad or whose lunch was forgotten are the ones we need to develop into humanitarians. It doesn't happen when there are 39 of them in a class. That's a chaotic cartoon of a learning environment.
If we could have some parental or neighborly participation in these endeavors, things would change for the better.
If we could find a way to spread the requisite costs of maintaining a learning structure out into the future, our schools and our children would have a chance at better tomorrows.
If we prepare our little ones for a satisfying life engaging their minds and developing their talents, our economy has a chance to diversify and rebound.
The BS approach is detrimental, draconian and downright dangerous in that it DEAD-ends the daily operation of those communities and significantly impacts the potentials of a jillion chillen.
Sorry Professor. I am lost.
The state of Nevada cannot run deficits. Keynes was not employed by the State of Nevada and my limited knowledge of his General Theory lead me to conclude that it has limited relevance in Nevada in 2011, except in a graduate seminar in political economy. Nevada as a legal matter must balance its budget. Ditto to Milton Friedman. We should not be slaves to some defunct economists.
We are here today. It is Nevada, March 26, 2011. The state's budget must be balanced in 3 months time. So if you are going to take the country back from the banks and multi-nationals in time to balance the budget, you better get started this morning. I would advise an early start.
In the mean time those of us not involved in this herculean task can focus on a more mundane and immediate task--balancing the budget. The last time I checked, 55 cents of each dollar in the general fund goes to education. My recollection is that 40 cents goes to k-12 and 15 cents on the dollar goes to higher education. The other large portion goes for human services. The Economic Forum provides a projection of revenues. The budget must comport with that project or provide new revenues.
Let's start looking for revenues. The federal government already does run huge deficits. We dropped $1 Trillion in the stimulus package 2 years ago. Most economists agree it did not help a great deal. Some like Krugman argue that it wasn't big enough. In the end the impacts were ephemeral at best and wasteful at most. The ARRA was not the New Deal.
Call Harry, maybe he can put another package together, but I doubt it given that the ARRA is not popular among constituents here and elsewhere. Keynes left a bad taste in the public mouths.
In the mean time higher educations has had two years to prepare itself for this moment, when stimulus would be no more. The response of higher education was to pass to nonsense delusional budget last August and have declare that they were standing up to Governor Gibbons. Terrific. I hope the Regents and the Chancellor feel good about their empty gesture, because it undermined any credibility they had with the public.
End of Part I--
Part II
There three courses of action in front of us--taxes, cuts or a combination of the above.
Let's talk about the proposition that cutting education will cost $1 billion of economic activity. I don't have time this morning to dig out the numbers, but lets assume that is gross for a moment and not net. Nevada cannot print nor borrow the way the feds do and therefore any revenues come from others. There is an opportunity costs associated with this. What would have been done with these funds but for the tax. Suppose I the monies would produce benefits of $1,000,000,001 in private hands as opposed to the schools? Your argument of investment faces a problem does it not?
Second, you are laboring under the assumption that the money exists. In a world of 2.7 million people. Almost 14 percent of the workforce is unemployed. This does not include those who have left the workforce involuntarily and would return if they could. The houses owned by people in the Valley are worth 40 percent of what they were in 2006.
The unemployment benefits have been financed through loans from the feds (our Keynsian moment). This has helped keep a lid on some of the most severe problems of unemployment. The reserve funds were depleted months ago and the state owes over a $1 billion. I should say employers in this state owe over a $1 billion because they are the group that is saddled with this. No only are there customers poorer, so are they because they had to let workers go.
There is not a whole left to tax other than the mines at this point and this is difficult.Where are those Dems when you need them. Hiding with the Republicans on this. The pool of potential tax dollars is quite limited.
In sum, the assumption that tax dollars exist is questionable. Second, the assumption of the social costs of cutting education appear to be incomplete.
End of Part II.
The discussions in this forum remind me of a time a mechanic tried to repair my car. I was complaining of a ticking sound - metal to metal - that had been bothering me. Not too loud, just enough to hear when I started the car.
The mechanic attached my car to a computer and did all kinds of tests with it. Nothing was wrong. I was presented with a large bill for all the tests he made and for his time. I was livid.
When I came home, I decided to open the hood and listened very closely, honing in to where the sound came from. I found the culprit! It was a shim that settled itself on a crook outside the engine. Everytime the car turned on, it jiggled, hitting the surrounding metal. I took it out, the sound went away!
Lesson of the day: Stop talking about finance, studies, and other fancy things (being the mechanic). It does not solve the root of our problems with society. It is simple. Think of the children (the shim)! Stop buying them toys. turn off the TV (the tests!) Spend some time with them - half an hour a day and do things with them: talk, play, read, write.
Let the Wizards-of-Oz do what they shamelessly do best. Find a way to get back to Kansas!
Part III
How do you move forward?
Let's test some assumptions. First, the return on higher education. As applied thus far, the return on investment that has been discussed is generic. Not all majors yield the same returns. Further, no evidence has been put forward to show that returns have increased at the same rate that costs have. Indeed look at what has happened. Should we start culling the non-performing majors? This is your metric not mine Professor. Are your graduates of the same quality and caliber as graduates thirty or forty years ago? Are you among those who lament that you can't assign a book a week the way you could in the good old days?
A better method is to put in place price caps that would apply to tuition and taxpayer contributions according to a specified formula. In the end, higher education will have to control its costs or it will be priced out of business. You guys at higher education have the best minds in the state, figure it out. The current economics are not sustainable. I know you have trouble getting into this one, but it is tough to avoid.
Part IV
On to K-12. The Sad Teacher writes above that I don't know what is going on in the schools today. That is true, but it sure is hell isn't learning. The public school system is a failure in Clark County and in Nevada. It gets an F. 50% drop out and many of the 50 percent who graduate lack the most basic skills necessary to succeed in life.
The schools are filled with well-meaning and dedicated teachers, armed and educated with the latest and best theories of teaching from UNLV and other institutions of higher learning. After 12 years, the kids can't read or write. There is no correspondence between what the theories and reality as judged by the success rate. Higher education gets an F for doing a lousy job of preparing teachers to teach.
Parents do a lousy job of preparing their kids to go to school each day. They are poorly prepared and lack the very work ethic that parents take to their jobs each day. Johnny and Mary can't read or write after 12 years and probably wont' graduate. It is the parents. An F for parents.
In the end the public is culpable. We elect the officials who run the schools. The schools stink. How do we fix it? The public gets an F to go with the School's F.
The idea of raiding the reserves to pay operating expense that was floated by the governor gets an F as well, as do the legislators who want to raid the coffers for other reasons. The governor and legislature get an F for fiscal responsibility.
It is amazing that we spend almost $8,000 per year per student in Clark County and get so little in return. Take the cuts and live with them, unless and until the district comes back with something that solves these problems. You want to throw more money at a system that is a failure and tell me that it is a good investment?
Solution--we work through the short-term as proposed (yes, cuts are coming), by minimizing the number of layoffs in the short-term. We regroup. Yes, there will be some sacrifices made. Everyone I know has taken cuts, paid more for insurance. It is our 1929 and we have to dig within ourselves because our pockets are empty.
I am willing to invest professor, but I lack the money and what you offer has a return far less that what you show in your investment prospectus.
Morning Nancy.
I enjoy reading the mindless liberal trolls replies and learning even more about the stupidity of each one of you.
The economy has changed and the tables are turning. The golden goose that laid the golden egg for you is gone forever, the state population has decreased and the working class is way over taxed and we're sick and tired of taking care of you and your lazy self righteous whining kids. Just in case you haven't noticed, look around and you will see all the vacant homes, there are 100's of thousands of vacant homes, they're empty. So you're not confused, this means these families have moved which means thousands and thousands of kids are no longer in the school system.
What you're failing to realize is that most of you are either on welfare or sucking off the public system in some fashion or another and it's about time you get off your lazy rear end and get a job and pay your fair share. This might mean you need to pack your duffel bags and round up your offspring and move to another state, we don't care; you just need to get a job and pay your fair share and stop sucking off our taxes.
Am I going to hear this one now, what jobs, there are no jobs, you voted the liberal idiots into office, and yes this includes Obama and it's about time you suffer the earned consequence for your votes. Most of America doesn't care if you live under a bridge or hold a sign up begging, you created your own nightmare and you've all sucked off our money for way too many years. It is about time that you are all held accountable for your choices that you made for you and your offspring; it's time for you to enjoy it and reap the benefits of your mindless troll mentality.
The public system is broken and we not paying anyone the excesses paid for you or your offspring to continue sucking off system. We're not going to enable you or your offspring to continue the cycle of your pathetic choices. It's about time the life cycles of your gene pool learns something new, accountability, working, responsibility, and you are creator of your own destiny.
You want smaller class sizes, stop the entire baby making machine process and only have kids if you can afford to support them on your own. Stop allowing the illegal immigrants right to have their offspring in the USA so that they too can suck off the system.
As for teachers, you have the freedoms to do as you wish, quit and move somewhere else unless you feel the only way to create an income for you and your family is suck off the taxpayer funds for the rest of your life. If this is your desire, you are responsible for your choices. Quit your whining and reap the benefits of your choices and stop blaming others for your choices in life.
Remember you are supposed to know right from wrong and you're supposed to be a leader that kids look up too. Try something new, lead by example and by all means, try being accountable for your choices that you made for you. Being a teacher was never a job that created wealth, it is a job that should be done for pennies or as a second career and you're supposed to enjoy it.
The difference between trolls and regular people is that you feel just because the unions and liberals say it so then it must be true and you follow their lead. Try thinking for you and make your own choices in life. If you lose the codependency of others you feel that you need in your life and you become independent, life becomes much easier and you can look yourself in the eyes and like what you. Until then you're going to be a bunch of lazy whining self righteous freeloaders blaming everyone else for your pathetic gene pool you've created.
Was I just called a liberal troll?
The root problem is OVERPAID EDUCATORS WHO DON'T KNOW HOW TO TEACH. Let's ask the experts in Europe how to do it--they get GRADUATES that can read and write for less than half the price of what we pay. Stop making excuses why teachers cannot teach. Sure there are other factors but teachers ought to be able to DO SOMETHING.
Divine justice: INEFFECTIVE "TEACHERS" abandoned and homeless like other 99ers--except they won't get 99 weeks, maybe 26 weeks of unemployment comp. 20% of Administrators PINK SLIPPED. Bye Bye to part of the problem.
Rose:
Blaming the teachers it too easy and too simple. They are employees. Management is ultimately responsible for the performance of the employees.
Management signed the contracts; management agreed to the work rules; and management must be held accountable.
Parents need to be held accountable for their children. Everyone should have the right to be able to learn in a classroom. If a child comes to school and is so disruptive on a daily basis that others cannot learn, PARENTS need to be held accountable. It is bad enough that there are 35-40 children in a class, but when there are even 2 that disrupt the learning environment and more time is spent on getting those 2 students to behave, that is a lot of learning time missed. PARENTS! Teach your children how to behave!
While you are having fun this weekend, teachers are doing lesson plans and activities for the week. These are not handed to teachers on the way in on Monday.
I would challenge ANYONE that is not in the schools to teach a class for a week and see what it is really like.
Yes, we choose this profession and as someone said, there are bad teachers, but most want to do what we do and care about the children. Do you? Do you really know what a teacher does? Come see for yourself!
In forensics, before a debate starts, there is an agreement of the basic premise(s). People here have diverse frames of references, so this forum is nothing but an exercise in yadiyadiyadida.
I suppose it's cathartic to some, and in that respect, beneficial. BUT IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM!
Education is everyone's problem. These little children will be the president, the congressmen, the senators, the governors, the Police, the firemen, the teachers, the lawyers, etc. etc, and they are going to be running the show - making decisions about what you eat, where you sleep, and what medicines you are going to take! What are you gonna do about that! For starters, spend some time with a kid!
Do something NOW. Stop the yadiyadiyadiyadida.
Morning Turri. Had your caffeine yet?
Time to shut down these comments, Sun. When individuals have to make multiple posts in a row to spew their venom, it's gone beyond being upset and concerned to just being, borderline, a sad display of mental illness. It's getting 2 hot in here for sane people with real intelligence to continue a reasonable discussion. But the monster truck show is later today, so maybe the issue will resolve itself.
Nancy:
LOL. It took quite a bit caffeine to crank my tome out this morning. Happily I am a morning person.
Professor Unger has been keeping me busy with writing assignments the past couple of days--Keynes, Friedman, Krugman etc. He seems to get a kick out of it. Thus far I have been happy to comply with long-winded response to his various questions.
May I ask what grade you teach and what you are teaching the students this week?
What a hoot!
Teachers, college professors and parents are nothing but liberal trolls, ruining the gene pool...of NEVADA!, according to Wiggin LMAO
If we would just walk away from our life work and become 'independent', POOF all the world would take on the glow of a Maxwell Parrish.
It's so funny that roseanrose herself is likely laughing at her obvious truth - that SHE knew all along - teachers are dumb, lazy, incompetent boobs who do nothing, know nothing and suck up all kinds of her precious tax dollars.
Meanwhile reasoning professionals are trying to carry on a discussion about the causes and cures for our apparent failure to provide a path out of the ignorance that dominates this rag as surely as the classrooms across the great black hole of understanding, the late great state of Nevada.
One, a PhD in Education with years of classroom experience, suggests something remarkably simple - the PRIMARY stakeholder in a child's education, the PARENT, actually working with their offspring to enable understanding.
Now this may seem odd to the roseanrose types who truly belittle any and all efforts made by Americans, not Swedes, to help out the youngins. Reading, writing, gaming, challenging, and actually RAISING the child seems an odd path to the folks here, as if the professionals SHOULD be the ones doing that KIND OF THING, not the parent and certainly never the child him/herself developing autonomy, discovering mastery and relying on their own purpose in becoming a fully finctional human being.
Nevada actually has very few of those, but it has become such the norm here that nobody even expects themselves to grow up.
Look around at the drunks, sluts and wasted gamblers. Check out the thousands of rotting homes, the residue of the last boom/bust cycle brought about by this kind of short-term thinking that benefits few and bankrupts many.
And laugh about the bickering and moaning, the impassioned accusations of our fellows for doing what is right by the next generation in attempting to give them vision of our incomparable failures while hiding from the facts.
We're doomed until we face the truth. Kids need every chance we can give them. Fire the fat in the administration of schools; hold the children accountable for their progress, and FORCE parents to pay attention to their offspring and POOF - a different world will appear.
Quick post: again, thank you to Turrialba, and to all posters here for such good, thoughtful discussion. I agree that what is most important right now is to live in the solution.
Here I are four new bills before our legislature that offer a solution, as introduced by District 3 Assemblywoman Peggy Pierce:
AB 333 / Raises the tax on liquor and cigarettes.
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/76th2...
AB 335 / Is a services tax. Many states are moving in this direction, as people are using more services and the revenue from the sales tax in declining. Selected services to be taxed are more likely to be used by people who can afford to pay.
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/76th2...
AB 336 / Is a broad-based business tax, known for twenty years that Nevada needs to widen our tax base. AB 336 will do that, and this bill includes a large deduction for small businesses and is at a rate lower than the surrounding states.
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/76th2...
AB 428 / Revises the Net Proceeds of Minerals Tax, the tax on mining. This will require the mining industry to contribute to our state at a higher level.
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/76th2...
These bills, if approved, will go a long way toward preserving state services infrastructure, including education and vital social services, that almost every outside consultant who has studied Nevada agrees that our state needs to preserve its economy and ensure prosperity into the future. They would be a big step toward taking Nevada back from big business piracy.
And as in our previous exchanges: education has been cut, at all levels; cutting more now dismantles the system in tragic ways. About students: I don't know if I've stated this before, but at the NSHE level, the student performance has been improving; the success rate is improving; we need to do a whole lot more, but personally, I am mightily impressed by the seriousness and hard work of Nevada students, most of whom are older (median age 28), and have some first-hand experience in the so-called "real world". Our students are wonderful. This fight is for them. Will post on what is truly fine about our students in the future.
To the people who think teachers are not doing anything:
I have urged you to come to school to see what is really going on. So far, no one has responded to that invitation. So, I'll move the mountain for Muhammad:
Las Vegas Academy for the Performing Arts have won academy awards for its orchestra and other programs. I watched the students play once and I wept!
A-Tech has been winning national awards for excellence in academics.
ECTA students have won gold medals from a national competition in culinary arts.
Elementary students won national awards in spelling and geography.
Elementary students won national awards in short story writing.
High school students won national awards in newswriting.
Elementary students have raised thousand of dollars for Katrina, Haiti, Chile, and now Japan.
Many of our students are winning recognition for sports.
And there are many more. Many of you do not know these because the paper only publishes when a teacher or adminsitrator do something they are not supposed to do.
Teachers try very hard every day with interventions for those who come to school whose little brains are not ready because they are filled with 'garbage' from home. And, that is VERY DIFFICULT. Sometimes, you just cannot squeeze water from a rock.
That is why I consider those people who put down teachers as IGNORANT. You really have no clue as to what we do. You only know what you read in the papers and that is really very narrow and SAD!
Please get involved and volunteer at schools. Thank you.
Professor Unger:
One last point:
If I understand your position, the services provided by higher education are so valuable as to be exempt from budgetary discipline. Your industry one one where costs have exceeded the growth of prices in the economy almost every year for the past 50 years. The argument that education provides benefits over the lifetime, misses the point that costs are out of control, and that the net benefits have eroded as a consequence. I have not heard a response from you on about controlling costs, only to raise taxes.
You have argued that a Keynsian approach is suitable in this case and compared Nevada's austerity to Europe's. First and foremost, the US government is not in an austerity mode whatever Krugman says. We are spending like crazy. Keynes doesn't live in Nevada. European austerity is not Nevada austerity.
The go after capital and banks story you offer is no mean practical nor achievable by June of this year, even if it were desirable. So this is where we land.
The argument you provide offers more taxes as a solution. Yet, why should we feed the beast that offers no budget discipline? Someone's price will go up, whether it be taxes and/or tuition to cover these costs. 55 cents on the dollar in the general fund goes to education, of which 15 cents goes to higher education. Given the budget difficulties you face, your solution is to merely increase this funding. Right now the people in state are a lot poorer than just 4 years ago. You ask more, but have not offer the basic cost and budget discipline that every other family, business and government has had imposed on it. People have been taking hits and will take more. Instead the we hear the sky is falling. It won't fall if higher education adapts to the realities of 2011 in Nevada and across the country.
As a citizen, I have a real problem writing another check for you guys, when there is little or no effort to reign costs in so that education is affordable for students and taxpayers. Thus far I have seen nothing from you to change my mind on this.
T.
To Turrialba: your claim that higher education has not imposed budget discipline is false, and even misleadingly false. UNLV has cut 27% of its budget in two years; and I can tell you from experience that I personally cut 15% from direct classroom expenditures, laying off 4 Faculty-in-Residence and 8 Part-time Instructors, then not filling 1 retirement and 1 transfer: 10% of the workforce in the department. This led to absolute compression of the schedule to 90% capacity (and achieving 100% capacity is impossible due to classroom space issues, and scheduling necessities, to accommodate our students' needs for required courses). And all over the campus, the budget discipline has been similar. It is to the point right now at which infrastructure is suffering: classroom computers necessary for some subjects are sorely in need of maintenance and there is a waiting list; and other resources are lacking (especially facilities repairs needed for maximum efficiency). And on and on...
At the CSN, I swear, some departments have run out of paper to print necessary communications on and there is no budget to buy any more. And CSN has been cut so severely that it has turned down up to 10,000 students for admission in the past year alone.
If this is not fiscal austerity and discipline, then I don't know what is. You keep accusing the system of not cutting costs. Show me the evidence! Show the public the evidence!
And if you're talking about costs to build and grow, which were the mandates for the system at the beginning of the decade, then don't be so mendacious as to include these in general costs. The system is cutting costs, and has cut costs, and continues to cut costs. Coming up are salary reductions which the faculty and staff are more than willing to take IF the infrastructure can be saved. The problem now is that the infractructure will be dismantled. This is like building a bridge to span a chasm; now the bridge will be dismantled, destroyed; and Nevada will not be able to bridge that gap again for many, many years, if ever.
So: I confront you with your false accusations that NSHE and CSN have not cut costs. That is patently untrue. Go inform yourself more thoroughly; talk to department heads and to the VP of Finance; see how much has been cut, and tragically so, when our state needs every resource it can find to diversify and build for a more propsperous future.
its2hot, aka Tim Wiggin...
You rarely EVER have a nice word about anything. Ever. Your comments on education and teachers are nothing different; Do you get your jolly's doin' that? Cause' there ain't a lick of sense in the dern things ya say, mate.
Roseannaannadanna, aka Roseanrose,
You, my dear, are a blithering fool.
LasVegas2011,
It's babySIT, not baby SET, and if you think teachers are pulling down $68,000 you know even less about education than you do spelling. Also, when times were good, teachers didn't see any of the bonuses and pay raises that everyone in the private sector did, they had to fight for even a cost of living increase. By "sacrifice", most in the private sector have seen their paycheck slashed from $100,000+ down to what most teachers have made (@$40,000) for the last ten years. Teachers have made do with that salary and have lived within their means, much more than can be said about most in the valley, who now consider themselves Jesus-like figures because they now make what a pitiful school teacher has been making for the last decade. If you really believe teachers are overpaid babysitters (making $40,000 NOT $68,000), you need to go price day care centers around the valley and find out how much it would really cost to actually "babysit" all of the district's "children".
I walked away from the schoolhouse and now make 6 figures, have WAAY more fun and don't have to deal with bozos like 2011, blabbing crapola about those who pick up the pieces of our society's dregs, nurture, feed, clothe, teach, mentor, inspire and develop - all in a day's work - along with lesson plans, papers to grade, emails to parents, colleagues, admin. and on and on for at least 10-12 hours a day. Then mandatory summer school participation, classes to teach, classes to take, meetings with parents who can't HAndle THEM, DON'T HELP THEM AND DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THEM.
Teachers I know in NYC are making $145,000 a year; I started 40 some years ago at less than $5k, plus coaching at $.25 an hour.
Great job if you're a saint or give a hoot. But if like 2011, nothing matters, then just kick back, take a few pulls on the glass pipe and launch another hate post of those who are raising your children.
Who cares, right?? It's just the fukking future doctors, lawyers, scientists, engineers and sluts like that...$30,000 for six or eight of 'em ought to cover their cheeseburger and cot.
@las vegas 2011
I challenge you to come and sit in my class for 1 week and see what it is really like because you really have NO CLUE!
Professor:
Read what I said. The cost of college has risen higher than prices in the general economy almost every year for 50 years. The challenge is to not cut this year, but to bring costs in line with prices in the general economy. Otherwise, you are pricing yourselves out in the long-term. It isn't about cutting this year, it is about cost control every year. That is what is going on. It is about the student and the taxpayer.
It is about getting the Higher Education System in sync with the demographics of this state. It is about narrowing choices, but improving the choices that are available.
That is the challenge in Nevada and elsewhere. You guys want more public support this session that is fine. I want some cost controls in place going forward.
This is making ends meet today and in the future.
The apparent conflict that Turri and Dr. Unger are addressing is really not a matter of one versus the other. As usual, it is the interdependence of one with the other with little recognition of the dynamics.
Our stagnant one-trick pony economy is faltering and has stumbled down the last twenty or so years with the loss of our monopoly on sleaze, gamblin and drunkenness. Our schools have fostered a failing rate greater than a success rate because of several factors that have shown a staying power like the sun in the desert: illegal immigrants having a hay day here with working for zee man, low paying and low-skilled jobs and the tax base dependent on these millions who Vegas out, drop their cash and kept coming back.
The road went on seemingly forever, but the dead-end canyon has loomed on our approaching horizon as the dialogue between T. and U. make clear. There's no support and there's a stronger need than ever before to make the smart move, not the quickie.
Dr. Unger has indicated a logical move - raising some money through increased taxation of our pre-eminent sources - boozers, miners and such. Turri has made it clear that the long-term issue of INCREASED funding or less than decreased funding of cogency and development can not be sustained in light of the current morass of economic disruption.
And both are right. We are doomed, right?? LMAO folks. Of course not. We are free and blessed with each other, with hindsight and that tiny blip of foresight to grasp what we have and make it work for us.
Our curse lands here every day in the form of the greatest deposits of sunlight and spring breezes on the planet. We are sandwiched between areas that need what we get.
Our workforce is partly trained and capable of further development to acquire the skills needed to go forward with a new paradigm - a sustainable, place-based recognition of how all these rays and drifting currents can provide the route out of international warfare, national security interests and the common good of this planet in general and this state in particular.
Tracking solar collectors together with simple wind machines require very little investment compared to the long-term output. Their reliable constitution and heaven-sent source provide paths to the future that i will only begin to enumerate: jobs for many, an economy that relies more on what we have than what we don't have, a beacon of future thought that can open eyes around our country to the blessing of Nevada's battle-born resilience to find the silver lining, the golden eggs and the goose that lays them -Education!
end of part 1
Part two...
Without the grasp of what we have and how we are flailing around goofy, we shall remain trapped in the old pattern of wasting time, energy and tomorrow's potential in out-worn idle pursuits. Casinos may have sprung up for decades, bigger and flashier each year. Look at what we have squandered!
Imagine a map of 'Charging Stations' like gas stations where we could swap out the batteries from our lightweight cars and bikes like propane tanks or library books. We don't need 'no stinking oil wars or badges of bloody liberators.'
We need understanding, infrastructure that nourishes, and God knows we need the jobs that come from upgrading our infrastructure, implementing some of our better motive - like engaging our kids in a future that includes them, not denies them. Too many homes sit idle wasting away their potential and robbing neighbors of value, peace of mind and peace in general. Knock 'em down or fix 'em up. Better planting for shade, better insulation, better solar utilization make a better community.
All we need is a reconciliation and a our ways are defined not by the old way but a fresh look at the gifts we have - talent, torturing heaps of free energy sources arriving daily, and an overwhelming need to make it work FOR us and not AGAINST us.
In ten years, nevada could easily become the beacon of a better world, blessed with a sensible application of decentralized power in the hands of the people making the best of the battle-born conflicts erupting in our dismal need for a working economy and an education system that needs direction and a way to integrate what we have been given.
The way out is rising in the East, setting in the West and distributing the answers to our questions all day long if we could but grasp the ray of hope it intends for us - the promise of strength, awareness and tomorrows.
The world is waiting for us to shine our way of the cave. We are blessed.
'OUT' of the cave, oops, sorry. It was early and dark. That's my excuse and I'm stickin to it.
Home ownership is the greatest investment in self-learning one could ever imagine. It's about the stake in the future. Owning our community is what happens to kids when they get the feel for involvement in tomorrow, in their locale and in their abilities to affect changes for the better.
They get the theory, the practice and the sense of integration of stuff that simply does NOT HAPPEN in the classroom quite on the scale of impact that the hands-on application can have.
Scientists, architects, engineers and leaders are made of these experiences. Firemen, carpenters, electricians, welders, gardeners and interior designers grow from tiny efforts at having a hand in on the place down the street.
What's not to love about something that unites and binds, challenges and inspires, stimulates and gratifies?? And does it all for free in a clear sky forever??
Turning our backs on the needs will make red-necks out of us forever. Turning the kids into sluts and car-parkers for playboys will turn greed and lust into their highest goals, and squeeze the notion of pleasure into a quickie snatched from somebody's pocket while the power of the human spirit rots in a hell of yesterday's squandered schemes.
Let's dance.
I've got to say...
On this page, we have some of the wisest & blatently idiotic comments I've read in a very long time.
A big THANK YOU to Douglas, Turrialba, Joe, & Nancy for some reasoned, thoughtful & obviously enlightened commentary.
It's been a pleasure.
Gmag39:
No bitterness for me, I just state facts from my point of view and how liberals have desecrated America into a human cesspool of no good for nothing freeloading mindless trolls that seek nothing more than to continue their mission to suck off others. We have tried it the liberal way and look at where America is today. Just so we have no misunderstandings, read below.
The liberal way of life:
Welfare, Workers Compensation, Permanent Disability and Unemployment Checks is the preferred choice of income.
Promote and practice the sickest immoral sexual relationships and encourage their offspring to follow in their footsteps.
Too stupid to thing on their own and expect everyone else to do it for them.
Believe their elected officials actually care about them.
Unions offer a better life and care about their members.
People who choose to get up and go to work are to give to those who choose not to get up and go to work.
Welfare is a god given right and making more babies for a living deserves an immediate pay raise.
People aren't accountable for their own bad choices in life; everyone else is to blame and must pay that person for their bad choices.
Why work, others will take care of them.
Government is smarter than everyone; therefore, whatever the government says must be right.
Just because another liberal says it to be true, then it's true.
Illegal immigrants have equal rights and are entitled to all the freedoms and rights as legal citizens.
Rape, killings, and every other form of despicable behavior one could imagine isn't that person's fault and society made them do it and they deserve a second change in life.
Affirmative action works and we need to segregate people by race to continue the free money given to selected races.
Wealth distribution given to others who are too stupid and lazy to get off their rear end and get a job.
Kids aren't accountable for their choices and its okay to suck off of others.
White people owe every other race and all other races deserve special treatment because they're not white.
All races except white people deserve special holidays named after race specifics.
I could continue this list but I am restricted on how many words and the words I would use would use to describe liberals would be deleted. There isn't a single thing positive I see in any liberal and if I had my way, I would rather see liberals vanish from the earth permanently.
The bottom line, liberals are despicable excuses of a human being that actually have no functional use to most.
Wiggin's points are well taken: our culture has flaws including allowing ignorance to flourish in the name of freedom.
But the quality of mercy is not strained. The cream floats, the forgiveness may impact the forgiver as much as the released.
There is never an accounting for good taste, for good works or for the spirit of humanity that many use to their own demise.
Life in the wiggin world might be better if harsher and hotter.
When life calls for hardened steel and we prove out to be nothing but flimsy tin, then Tim wins. But it seems a bit harsh to lay the failings of weakness at the door of the givers of light, the keepers of promises and liberators of manifest humanity.
Liberty stands proud with her huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of teeming shores and holds the lamp beside the golden door.
tim wiggin would piss on the flame. LOL
Dear airweare (Mr. Lamy): have you ever considered running for office? If so, please let me know, and I'll put on a fund-raiser! Thank you.
No Professor Unger,
But I thank you for your polite words and for your journeys into the macabre, your delightful and impassioned treatment of kids trying to learn about their powers, and your comments here.
Your contributions work into the future in their own way. I enjoy my life too much now to sacrifice my remaining moments on the stage.
Brief candle, strong wind. Thank you for your warmth.
its2hot: That's not fact...that's your opinion which appears to be based on nothing factual.
airware:
American culture is gone and the new culture is all but American.
Yes I would definitely put out the flame liberals are forcing feeding down America's throat. America is no longer America; we are becoming another nation where America's core values are desecrated into anything but American. Our founding fathers never imagined nor did they ever contemplate what has and continues to occur in America today.
I for one would never succumb to a liberal way of life and I am sick of my tax being used that promotes any form of a liberal life style and their sick repugnant life style choices. From the illegal immigrants and their offspring, career welfare and their offspring or any other form of career public assistance that is their preferred choice of income has sucked us dry and the mindless liberal trolls are fighting tooth and nail to keep the free ride alive.
Tim, you're free to express yourself here. In some countries I've worked in, they track guys down for shooting off their mouths. Freedom is awful; it is dangerous and it allows idiots to become bigger idiots. And it also let's idiots see their idiocy and compare it to what ELSE they can find.
Some good and some terribly dumb things float around here. I for one would think we are better off with immigrants arriving here with plans for enrichment; you point to the sad and sadder situations that of course happen everyday.
But there is the liberation thing which you discount, which the founding fathers intended, and which leads to developments WAAY beyond what we had before they got here.
America happens to be an experiment in freedom unlike any ever. We are free to abuse it and/or develop it OUR way.
It's better than slavery, but if it's only a source of illegals, welfare and ruined lives in your book, then by all means, bro, it sucks, and we should just go back to when only those born with silver spoons could eat.
"...liberty and justice for ALL" can be just a line or a path or a promise to some; to you and to me it means two different things. That's what it's all about. Some smell the flowers; some the garbage. It's all there; and it's not all pretty, except in its own way, it truly is.
Accepting what we cannot change is a tough one, I'll give you that. Have a good week!
By its2hot (Tim Wiggin)
Who's paying you to type that drivel? No one could be that insipid and own a computer.
C'mon, fess up. An early April fools joke?
airware:
Silver spoons are earned by most, not given or born with at birth. It is the liberals that are breeding like rats and will stop at nothing to ensure their offspring continue to desecrate America into a land of free loading no good for nothing lazy pathetic baby making whining sniveling people that expect everything for nothing. These people are everywhere today and growing by the thousands each day and they actually expect those who choose to wake up and become productive members of society to give their hard earned money to their pathetic lives.
As to the illegal's they come to America and break our laws and they're rewarded. They come to America not to enrich themselves; they come to suck off the system. liberals use them as tokens and expect Americans to pay for their tokens through entitlements and more freebies. When they enter legally and abide by our laws, they're welcome to come here and create the dream for their family.
Illegal's are a great source of revenue; the unions and our government's pork barrel spending projects suck this up or whatever else they use it for. Every illegal immigrant who works and receives a paycheck has payroll deductions government taken from their paychecks, if union they pay into a union trust account with no legal avenue of collecting or using said deductions. Let's not get me going on the stolen identifications used to attain falsified documents, this has destroyed many lives and has cost Americans untold amounts of money to fix the identification theft by an illegal. The list goes on and on about illegal's and their offspring and you have the audacity to tell me that they're here to enrich themselves, this just proves a point and how screwed up America has become to even thing such a stupid thing. You are obviously part of the problem if you live here in America to even attempt to thing any positive about illegal's and their offspring.
Yes America is the land of the free and we're proud of it, it the word free that is abused and is a source of entitlements that is clearly taken out of context by most. Free doesn't mean that the color of their skin or the particular race they fall under means they're entitled to special set asides they are to receive a lifetime of freebies from the taxpayer. Like I said when America becomes American and we're not separated by race or the color of their skin where entitlements are expected them, America will be what our forefathers thought. Until this occurs, we're heading down a pathway that will become quite ugly one day where the working class will stop tolerating a system that is obviously broken that the liberals promote.
I am not a bro, I don't need set asides or special treatment that liberals and their offspring expect. I enjoy waking up and going to work and loath paying my taxes knowing a portion of my taxes is going to support liberals in some fashion or another that I know is being flushed down the toilet in some fashion or another.
I like my job too. I don't often have such antipathy for others, but it's obvious the freedom of others has sort of a grating effect on your level of enjoyment.
It's too bad you feel so separated from others who seem to detract from your joy in this short life in the greatest country that anybody lately has set free.
Free from want, from injustice and from slavery. Now if we could only learn to respect the rights of those who share this country, then we could call it a free country.
Wanting them damn liberals out, seeing them as unjust robbers of YOUR money and having them take your hard earned labors for granted must feel like slavery, robbery and unwanted taxation without representation. You're living the life of a slave in the freeest country that's ever been. Too bad, Tim.
I'm sorry you choose to manacle your spirits with hatred of freedom that way. G'night. I gotta get up and go to work early. I love my job, my country and shooting off my mouth. They actually PAY me to blast away!