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Thursday, Feb. 17, 2011 | 8:39 a.m.
Sun archives
- Light-rail bill fails, but sponsor says idea still has life (4-14-2009)
- Stimulus bill paves way for road projects (4-7-2009)
- Planning for light rail, despite its high cost (4-3-2009)
- Train-like bus line on track for winter opening (3-25-2009)
- Sponsor of bill is also a beneficiary: Ho hum (3-5-2009)
- Bill introduced to bring light rail system to Clark County (2-3-2009)
- Senator wants light rail system in Clark County (8-25-2008)
CARSON CITY – Local governments in Clark County and the state's Transportation Department would be required to work together to establish a light-rail system path from Henderson to North Las Vegas under a bill in the Senate.
The measure, Senate Bill 151 introduced Wednesday by Sen. Mike Schneider, D-Las Vegas, would also require governments “to the extent practicable” to acquire the necessary right of way for the project.
"Once they get it all planned, it would require a vote of the people to issue the bonds," Schneider said. He didn't have an estimate of the cost, "but I know they are not cheap," he said.
“The good news is we know where everybody is going (for the proposed route). It’s that four-mile stretch on the Strip,” he said.
Schneider said a light-rail system through the valley would also take traffic off Southern Nevada roads. (Map of the proposed route in 2009.)
"You know this time of year we are in non-containment with our air quality with our inversions," he said.
Schneider also pitched a light-rail bill during the 2009 Legislature, but it died without reaching the Senate floor.
Why does this bill need to progress? All it would do is create a bureaucracy to investigate and do nothing because the financing will never be in place in the foreseeable future and the mess of the monorail is yet to be decided.
Let us just pass a bill that requires the state to investigate jet-packs as a transport method?
So many bills, so little work, so few of merit passed. I'd just like to see mass transportation improved in the state.
This might be a good thing if done in an expedient manner. I know that Salt Lake had alot of opposition to the light rail when it first start and last I heard its a great success for the most part. I'd be more for this than the constant paving and tinkering with the freeways that happens here. It might have the added benefit of getting more drunks off the road and increase visitation to the strip by locals. Who wants to deal with nasty traffic and being gouged by taxi's to get back home if you drink too much?
IF they build this transport system ???????????
They need to hook it up to the Monorail - make use of what they already have.
There are so many government employees (city, county, state) that now own the land that would be in the required path of such a system. How about including in the bill that any government employee has to donate that right-of-way before any dollars are spent on this proposal.
Let's get light rail from Vegas to Reno/Carson City. We need it. Ineffective bus lines and some of us prefer not to fly. Could also save by putting State employees on the trains instead of planes when they routinely travel between Vegas and CC.
With the state of Florida refusing to implement the high speed rail system from Orlando to Tampa with spurs to the east coast of the state, now is the time for Nevada and California to move themselves up the ladder for consideration and go after the newly available funds. The potential construction project of creating stations, service bays and the rail beds would be a major boon to the suffering construction industry, assuming the winning contractors would be willing to use local labor and not bring in their own workforces.
Use the monorail, that's what other civilized countries do...
... oh wait, I forgot, its america...
The monorail was approved by voters BECAUSE it was supposed to connect to the airport. But the taxicab union "somehow" got the City Council to torpedo the airport connector during construction, turning the monorail into a huge waste of taxpayer money.
What's the point of talking about another tax payer funded light rail project that runs along the Strip until the City Council proves it's not in the taxicab union's pocket (i.e., allowing completion of the monorail to the airport so it can be profitable as we taxpayers originally intended)?
Schneider D-Las Vegas, is probably the same guy who pass the bill for the monorail system that is a complete failure and the tax payers may get stuck holding the bill. Nevada needs to quit wasting money and getting real input from real people, not from politicians who plan to benefit financially from a deal such has a light rail system. THe monorail was more than half way built and its still cannot make a profit. Now they want to develope a light rail system down the strip, why did they take the monorail down the middle of the strip? Politicians like Schneider are just coming up with projects without no input, study and real people survey. We cannot create jobs just for the sake of jobs if the project does not provide revenue or become self sufficient. Maybe instead of high speed rail, the $53 billion Obama has allocated for that project should be used to upgrade the infrastructure of the city or to improve the public transportation system of your city.
FRM. Do you have documents to back up your statement or are you just spouting unfounded nonsense?
VegasVeniceDude.
There was no vote of city taxpayers about the monorail, IT IS NOT IN THE CITY. The City Council had nothing to do with the monorail. The Airport also is not in the city.
I know, facts get in the way of good rants on the Internet.
The rail system will not work in Vegas. People here want to drive their cars. Better to debate with facts then bogus statements though if you want people to take you serious.
Rail systems are generally popular (even in LA, where the new subway system has vastly out-performed projections). Most major metro areas in the country have some sort of light-rail or subway system. However, every study I'm aware of has shown that if the idea is to provide a cost-effective public transit system (which LV desperately needs), buses are the way to go. They are cheaper, can be implemented more quickly, and are more flexible.
It simply isn't true that "people don't want to get out of their cars." They are willing to do so if they have a reasonable alternative. But if the bus system is such that bus stops are few and far between, and it takes hours to get across town, that's not a reasonable alternative, and people won't use it. For example, I would have to travel over three miles from my home in Henderson to get to the nearest bus stop. That just ain't gonna happen.
A light rail system up and down the center of the strip (as opposed to behind the strip) would be a boon to the area. Tourists would absolutely use it. There should also be spurs going to places like the Palms and the Orleans. You don't need a bill, you don't need an environmental study, just start doing the design.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/stat...
This is how the monorail should be. Tied to every community and the airport. Fast and cheap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTrain_(V...)
.. but no, instead we're going to reinvent the wheel, again.
Why not extend and/or add on to the existing mono-rail system?? This should have originally been connected with the Airport. I swear, the dolts that run this city/State just amazes me!
"Let's get light rail from Vegas to Reno/Carson City. We need it. Ineffective bus lines and some of us prefer not to fly. Could also save by putting State employees on the trains instead of planes when they routinely travel between Vegas and CC."
Light rail is only designed for urban areas -- you'd want heavy rail or high-speed rail for such a distance, as the maximum speeds for light rail would be such that the trip would take well over a day between Las Vegas and Reno or Carson City.
I would much rather drive my own car than take the train. What do you do once you get off the train? You can only go as far as your willing to walk from the drop point. I can see it going up and down the strip. However, it's not practical and won't make any money. Plus, a lot of taxi/limo jobs would be lost.
Let's see, we don't have enough money to fund government so let's borrow more money for a cho cho on the strip. This Bill shouldn't stand a chance of going anywhere.
I'd use it. Driving in this city scares me.
Waste of money. It would require us to reduce funding to welfare services, health care and education in order to prop it up because it won't even be able to cover its own operating cost let alone repay its debt.
Lay down those tracks and give Vegas the healthy shot in the arm it needs. Just make sure it connects the right dots, unlike the stupid monorail, which someone like Lampshade probably planned. What? Forty million visitors a year to Vegas and some of you still think nobody would use it?
By unenclosed (Mark Kaswan): "However, every study I'm aware of has shown that if the idea is to provide a cost-effective public transit system (which LV desperately needs), buses are the way to go. They are cheaper, can be implemented more quickly, and are more flexible."
I'm not sure what studies you've seen, but buses are definately not the way to go if you want cheaper. I'll grant that they are more flexible and can be implemented more quickly. But again, they are never cheaper or more cost effective.
According to the National Transit Database on average for 2009, it costs 40 cents to move 1 person 1 mile on heavy rail (subways & El's) and commuter rail. It costs 60 cents per passenger mile for light rail.
Put that person on a bus and it costs 90 cents per passenger mile. And it's important to note that amount does not include anything for fixing the all the damage that more than 50,000 daily buses on the roads of this country cause to our roads. Since public transit agencies generally don't pay fuel taxes, the expense of fixing the roads falls squarely on taxpayer's shoulders.
AlanB,
Buses are also far cheaper in that they work on the infrastructure we already have. Rail would require the investment of billions. As for damage caused to our roads by buses, I don't claim to know any statistics on that, though I wonder how much it still is, AFTER damage is subtracted from all the cars with single drivers being taken off the road. I imagine that several private cars still don't cause the damage a multi-ton bus might.
All that said, the overall thrust of your post is duly noted. Thanks for the insight. I found a report from the Seattle area which argues that vanpools are actually the way to go. I don't know how well vanpool usage could be organized in Las Vegas, but this brings to my mind yet another possibility: using vans as mini-buses to serve a network of routes. More vans and drivers would be needed during peak times. And there would be other details to address, such whether or not a center aisle is required on a van/mini-bus to ensure easy ingress/egress. But might the overall efficiency gains and reduced overhead costs of vans provide the best, overall cost per passenger mile?
http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publicat...
I would generally be in favor of an infrastructure project like this, but in this case I have to go with P_R_Gibbons.
First, it would only be of benefit if it were to move people from home to work. Second, it seems vulnerable to political favoritism depending on the route. Third, we have too many other areas that are much more important that lack funding already.
I think that whatever transportation needs this is intended to address could be handled better by adjusting existing bus service. We have only to look at how the taxi companies screwed us on the monorail to see how this would turn out once other special interests got involved.
DTJ,
Yes, rail requires a larger upfront bill, but long term it still works out cheaper than the bus.
If we return to the info from the National Transit Database and pull the operating and capital expenses for both buses & light rail for the 12 year period from 1996 to 2007 for Salt Lake City, we find the following:
SLC spent $1.009 Billion in total on buses.
SLC spent $715.04 Million, with an M, on light rail.
The buses moved about 7 million more rides than did light rail.
Salt Lake started construction of their first LRT line in 1996 so as to have it in service for the Olympics.
Now in the interests of full disclosure I will tell you that SLC embarked on a major expansion of their light rail system in 2008. The costs from that construction as of 2009 have pushed light rail slightly into the lead.
However, once construction stops in 2012/2013, the huge disparity in operating costs will quickly push the buses back into the lead. In 2009 SLC spent $109M operating its buses and only $29M operating light rail.
Could it be that Harrah's is behind this? They do own all the properties on both sides of the strip for a whole block...
Since this light rail system benefits mainly the Casinos, how about a $ 7.00 a day Parking Tax on their lots to help pay for it. Just run it down Las Vegas Blvd from Nellis AFB to the "M" Casino, with a spur to the Palm Casino, UNLV, the Airport and Henderson. The Casinos could subsidize their Employees for Light Rail use to get to work by purchasing monthly passes.
There is no more room on the Strip. Putting it down the center is not feasible. It would get stuck in traffic at the intersections. You think the police would get off their bikes and put down their coffees to keep it clear? Go down there and look, you'll see them sitting watching cars fill the intersections and posing for pictures with tourists. They are already in place and they dont work either.
How much of the land involved belongs to Harry and his cronies? Go liberals, Republicans for Reid, and illegal voters. You kept him in office and he keeps consuming. I'm sure the project won't be stopped. He owns Nevada.