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A view of MonteLago Village and the Ritz-Carlton at Lake Las Vegas, an upscale community that has been devastated by the recession.
Monday, March 1, 2010 | 2 a.m.
In Today's Sun
Timeline
Lake Las Vegas ad from 2006
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An advertisement for Lake Las Vegas from 2006.
Sun Archives
- Casino MonteLago at Lake Las Vegas to close next month (2-16-2010)
- Ritz-Carlton Lake Las Vegas to close in May (2-8-2010)
- Current, past owners spar in Lake Las Vegas bankruptcy case (9-21-2009)
- Lake Las Vegas proposes bankruptcy plan (9-5-2009)
- Judge approves bankruptcy for Lake Las Vegas golf course (6-29-2009)
- Another golf course to close at struggling Lake Las Vegas (6-25-2009)
- Lenders seek control of Lake Las Vegas hotel (6-4-2009)
- Ritz-Carlton bought amid financial woes (3-24-2009)
- Residents of bankrupt Lake Las Vegas face uncertainty (3-23-2009)
- Lake Las Vegas can abandon golf course, judge says (1-15-2009)
- Resort golf course’s fate spurs debate (12-16-2008)
- Bridge over troubled water (5-24-2008)
- Casino MonteLago swaps managers (6-17-2007)
- Grand opening set for new Lake Las Vegas casino (5-7-2003)
- Ritz-Carlton Lake Las Vegas spa and golf resort opens (2-11-2003)
The pitch was right out of a travel brochure for Tuscany. Italian-style architecture, miles of greenery, wineries and sidewalk cafes, all set around a 320-acre lake.
Lake Las Vegas would be a Mediterranean oasis plopped in the middle of the desert, developers promised. Nearly 20 miles and a lifestyle removed from the glitz of the Strip, the lakeside community would provide refuge for visitors and residents alike.
It was supposed to be an elegant residential hideaway, a place for cocktails on pontoon boats at sunset, top-caliber golf and dining at fine hotels free of slot machines.
Who could resist?
But with homes costing millions of dollars plummeting in value and a posh hotel saying it will lock its doors in May, residents may be questioning the wisdom of investing in a community tucked out of view 17 miles from the Strip.
“All of the news we’ve had over the last few years has been disheartening on a lot of levels,” said condo owner Sherri O’Boyle, president of her homeowners association who from 1994 to 2000 was vice president of marketing for Lake Las Vegas. She remains sold on the community: “I still believe Lake Las Vegas will be here for a very long time. The people who can hang on will do so.”
The development was conceived more than 40 years ago by actor and hotel investor J. Carlton Adair, who bought the land and the water rights to develop what he would call Lake Adair. He would never see it. Adair declared bankruptcy in 1972, a prelude of what was to come for the development.
After another failed attempt by Pacific Malibu Development Corp., the Santa Monica, Calif.-based Transcontinental Corp. acquired the land in 1990. Transcontinental owner Ron Boeddeker envisioned re-creating Italy’s Lake Como in the sewage-filled Henderson swamp.
The man-made lake would be no cheap investment, costing tens of millions of dollars to build and about $2 million a year to keep full of water from Lake Mead, two miles to the west.
It would serve as the sparkling centerpiece for Boeddeker’s resort community of luxury hotels, championship golf courses designed by Jack Nicklaus, shops and restaurants and thousands of custom homes.
The area quickly won notice. Golf Magazine named it one of the top communities to semi-retire to, and the development was named one of the 10 most important projects in the world during an international architecture and design exhibition.
Its cachet rose when Celine Dion purchased a $1.2 million home there in 2002.
But then Lake Las Vegas sprung a leak.
The property went into foreclosure after Transcontinental defaulted on $540 million in loans in fall 2007. The development was acquired by the Atalon Group in January 2008, only for it to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection six months later.
The problem: Because Lake Las Vegas was heavily dependent on secondary home buyers, it was crippled when discretionary spending dried up and the booming Las Vegas real estate market crashed.
The community’s three golf courses also went into foreclosure, only one of which has since reopened. Wells Fargo took over Loews Lake Las Vegas — one of three hotels alongside the lake — in June, and in the latest in a string of bad news for Lake Las Vegas, the Ritz-Carlton announced Feb. 8 it would be closing its doors in May, and Casino MonteLago, the community’s only casino, said it would be shutting down in March.
Indeed, Lake Las Vegas, a well-heeled community striving for seclusion, has found itself completely exposed to the Great Recession.
The development still presents a pretty face, with palm trees lining the entrance and wrought-iron gates guarding hilltop mansions. And even if the greens of the foreclosed golf courses have browned, landscapers have maintained the manicured grounds, including the community green that has hosted wine-and-cheese gatherings, art festivals and concerts by the likes of Italian tenor Andrea Bocelli.
But still, the signs are there.
In 2009, banks foreclosed on 124 of Lake Las Vegas’ 1,700 homes, according to real estate research firm SalesTraq. That number compares with 15 foreclosures in 2007 and 123 in 2008.
And MonteLago Village, a collection of boutiques, galleries and restaurants, is largely empty of strollers even on sunny weekday afternoons, allowing shopkeepers to while away the time talking to friends on the phone or taking long cigarette breaks.
Marianne Freeman, who owns Tesoro, a home furnishings and accessories store, blames the slowdown in the village on the bankruptcy buzz.
“When the news of the bankruptcy information hit last year, the perception by the local clients was that Lake Las Vegas is closed,” she said. “People stopped coming out.”
Some residents shrug off the depressing scene.
“I don’t think what’s going on in our community is any different from what is going on in the rest of Las Vegas,” SouthShore Homeowners Association President Vicki Hafen Scott said.
Her custom-home neighborhood is one of 19 in Lake Las Vegas, where home prices range from $365,000 to $3.3 million, according to SalesTraq.
During 2005-06, 10 custom homes were selling a month, SalesTraq President Larry Murphy said.
In 2009, custom-home sales slowed to fewer than one a month.
Home Builders Research President Dennis Smith said the difference between Lake Las Vegas and Summerlin, whose developer is also in bankruptcy, is Summerlin’s varied offerings.
“Historically, Lake Las Vegas has targeted one small segment of the spectrum and that is your luxury buyer or investor. When the market went bad and you don’t have that diversity, it’s going to affect you more,” Smith said.
Resales rebounded somewhat in 2009, accounting for two-thirds of the 435 units sold from 2007 to 2009, according to SalesTraq. But 208 of the homes sold in 2009 were bank-owned, diminishing the price of some of the high-end homes.
Indeed, the average square-foot price of a resale home dropped from $544 in August 2007 to $106 in November, according to SalesTraq.
Holly and Sol Malka jumped on one of the foreclosed homes, benefiting from the recession when moving here from Birmingham, Ala.
“Lake Las Vegas’ financial situation did affect our decision, but not in a negative way. Las Vegas is a very attractive place for someone looking for a deal right now,” Holly Malka said. “We firmly believe that Las Vegas is going to come back, and we’re probably going to see some increase in our home value as well.”
But the closing of the Ritz-Carlton won’t help homeowners, analysts say; an empty hotel adds to the bad perception of an already troubled development.
“The hotel is closed. The golf courses are closed. What are the owners getting for their HOA dues? I’m sure a lot of homeowners have to question what are my dues going to if the amenities aren’t there,” Smith said.
The AAA Five Diamond Ritz-Carlton, known for its man-made white sand beach and pricey spa treatments, has been a fixture at Lake Las Vegas since it opened in February 2003 — and has languished in financial trouble since. The former owners, Village Hotel Investors LLC, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in April 2008 to stop foreclosure of the $103 million mortgage. It was purchased by Village Hospitality LLC, an arm of Deutsche Bank, a year ago.
Village Hospitality has not indicated its plans for the facility after it closes.
CB Richard Ellis Executive Vice President John Knott estimates the Ritz-Carlton is worth about $30 million but said Deutsche Bank could be looking for offers up to $80 million.
A view of MonteLago Village and the Ritz-Carlton at Lake Las Vegas, an upscale community that has been devastated by the recession.
Ritz-Carlton spokeswoman Vivian Deuschl said like most other sister properties in the United States, the bulk of the Lake Las Vegas hotel’s business comes from meetings, one of the reasons the property suffered so much when Las Vegas’ meeting and convention business declined.
Business owners and homeowners aren’t so sure that the loss of the Ritz-Carlton will hurt them.
“Certainly the closure will affect my business to some extent, because the Ritz has always brought in visitors from across the county, but it won’t have a huge impact,” Freeman said.
“At first, you’re like ‘Oh my God. The Ritz is closing,’” Holly Malka said. “But I don’t go to the Ritz. I live here.”
But the resort’s closing spooked Casino MonteLago owners, who have decided to close their casino as well. Between that and the hotel closing, 177 jobs will be lost.
But for all the effects of the Great Recession at Lake Las Vegas, there is this optimism:
The Nevada Transportation Department has begun a $13 million widening project on Lake Mead Parkway to accommodate anticipated increases in traffic to the development.
As I have said before, open the lake to the public and start charging a minimal usage fee for upkeep and maintenance of the lake. It would be an option that can bring in more visitors to the area and that can translate to income for the businesses left in the village. I would love to kayak at Lake Las Vegas and others would probably be interested in bringing in their jet skis for a ride on the lake.
oh yeah like these bozo's are going to let real people into their smug community. how's that rich crowd doing for ya vegas?
Lake Las Vegas was a beautiful idea...I remember hearing about it and thinking .."how exquisite"...however I think they over did it...one enormous beautiful golf course would have been enough.... with a tournament type of golf course they could have had televised tournaments there....one exquisite European Monte Carlo type hotel would have been enough...and a furniture store and art galleries...they didn't need that....I know of homes being built for 5 million dollars that dont even have a private golf course...so I think they over thought this venture....the problem here is they are living in a almost derelict type of environment ...so of course homeowners are going to walk away...money makes money...empty property is a depressed neighborhood...
you can't send out a message to the "evil rich people" that you're going to take MORE of their money so poor people can shove big macs in their mouths and smoke without having to pay for the health consequences.
wealthy people have put a padlock on their wallets.
want a better economy?
vote republican in 2010 / 2012.
This is what I think in order to save it.....break it apart in parcels and sell it off....maybe someone does want a private golf course and club house only...maybe it would be easier to sell....alright then sell off the hotel ...as just a hotel or some kind of spa ...then turn some of the townhouses into rentals...rental apts. are easier to fill....forget about the art galleries and expensive restaurant's for things that people really need....I dont know what else you can do...but its a sure thing your not going to sell it the way it is now.....what Las Vegas needs is a professional football team with a professional foot ball stadium...enough hotel and casinos you dont need any more of that ...start looking into other ventures for your money....
stevem, Vote Republican in 2010/2012 if you want a better economy?????? Did you just drop in on this planet this morning?? The Great Recession started while the country was being run into the ground by your hero George Bush!!!
Try Googling "jobs created during presidential terms", you might learn something about the falsehood that republicans create jobs.
"The hotel is closed. The golf courses are closed. What are the owners getting for their HOA dues? I'm sure a lot of homeowners have to question what are my dues going to if the amenities aren't there," Smith said."
Well if a homeowners thinks their HOA is used to subsidize the golf courses and Hotels they need to read the HOA annual budget. The bulk of the budget goes to landscaping and I for one feel I am getting my moneys worth. The grounds look beautiful and that's why I moved here. Not because there was a Ritz Carlton or a casino. Although I do love having the Irish Pub and Tequila bar in the community.
And Lake Las Vegas is definitely not a semi-retired community. It's residents are now working professionals and families. My community residents are 30 something families that have purchased homes at very good prices. Maybe the condo's are luxury second homes, but the bulk of those seem to be snow birds from Canada. You can't call Lake Las Vegas a rich haven any more. Those people left a while ago.
and how many jobs have been lost during obama's term?
oh...and the "it was the other guy's fault" stuff isn't working anymore.
obamao is too arrogant to realize that he needs to drop the "rich people are evil" schtick and lower taxes to get this country moving again.
wealthy people create jobs.
when you tell them you want to take even MORE of their money, they don't create new jobs or spend money.
It took Dubya 8 years to destroy the country, I say we give Obama at least another year or two to start turning things around!
I agree with bf1lv - vote republican? Are you out of your mind?? The republicans are who got us into this mess. Obama at least is trying to do something positive about the mess he was left with.
So the village is going to close too? The casinos should have offered local packages affordable to all, and had stores that would intrest all ages! It was a gorgeous relaxing place, and their live music on the water was one of thee best experiances of growing up in las vegas. The scenery was so dreamy, I was intrested in their wedding packages there! I have faith it will turn around soon. Investors should jump on this area. The strip isnt for families or professional modest people. Lake Las Vegas can replace that.
Promote tourism and heritage, Nevada's newest ghost town closer than Death Valley and Scotty's Castle.
We used to love going there,beautiful,relaxing thought it was a little too far out and expensive for the masses.
Blame it on the recession...yeah,sure,we can't come out and say it was a lousy idea. Blame it on the economy when all else fails!
"The pitch was right out of a travel brochure for Tuscany. Italian-style architecture, miles of greenery, wineries and sidewalk cafes, all set around a 320-acre lake."
___________
Ah, Las Vegas pretentiousness at it's finest.
over 60,000 jobs were slashed within days of obamao taking office.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/26/news/eco...
rich people create...and delete jobs.
obamao has sent a clear message to the people that create jobs of "if you make it...i will take it".
take it from people that work to give to those that don't.
sad...
truly sad...
I say we bulldoze that monstrosity into the lake and be done with it.
Maybe our water nazi can buy up the water rights for use by southern Nevada residents..
How about doing something unique- let the private market decide what to do with Lake Las Vegas. AFter all, 'they' got themselves into it.
I am a resident of Las Vegas, and I think I went out there maybe twice in TOTAL. It always seemed to me a bit over the top, expensive, and somewhat artificial. As to the casino there, it was nothing compared to the strip hotels or even the station casinos spread around the valley.
I never even went to see the Ritz hotel, let alone stayed there.
As to actually using that lake, why mess with IT when Lake Mead is right next to it, is much bigger and more diverse, and doesnt have all the restrictions and big brother stuff that is a hallmark of Lake Las Vegas.
It was built for a richer clientele and a richer time in USA history. Unfortunately, those days are, at least temporarily, OVER.
The residents there will just have to wait it out. There isnt really much that can be done to preserve the lifestyle they moved there for, AND keep the place solvent.
Meanwhile, LV should legalize prostitution and stop trying to make the casino clubs into pristine church services. Gambling brought Nevada out of the great depression of the 30's, and prostitution and a more free attitude towards sex would bring it out of the current depression.
The fact is that prostitution, club sex, and marijuana usage is OUT THERE ANYWAY, and all the current laws do now is push it into the back alleys and increase "crime"
Now wouldn't this just be a peachy place for a concentrated soler thermal power plant? Think about it, there are plenty of vacant, already bladed lots for the failed community. Big casinos are going under and they could even lease out their water rights! Yes you would have to build transmission lines, but they could be disguised as palm trees and decorated with neon lights.
The economy is suffering and we have to make major sacrifices to save humanity from climate change according to Harry. Lake Las Vegas has enough waste water for a concentrated solar thermal plant. That way, we won't have to destroy the wilderness!
What, it would look ugly and the upscale residents don't like the looks of that? Don't let your NIMBY'ism skew your view of the big picture...
There are about 67 ghost towns in Nevada. This will be added to the list.
Will Las Vegas become the biggest ghost town of all?
There seemed to be lots of low paying cash under the table work when Bush ran everything, I for one hope the Republicans get back in because they hire a lot of my folks.
The first thing Monte Lago did after being rescued from BK was to tighten up the slot machines. Right in public view. Locals aren't stupid, they knew that their chances of hitting a jackpot were diminished.
Then they created the "High end" steak house. Nobody came, so they lowered the high prices, but still, nobody came. So it folded like a wet diaper.
Their promotions were actually OK, and droves of people would show up to get their jackets and stuff. Next day-nobody. How this place hung on so long, I have not a clue. One accountant who used to work there said it made money one time in 60 months. Nobody but nobody with a Nevada gaming license will touch this place for years. Bye, bye, CML, it's over for a long, long time. RIP.
Have a good time, Bouvier at the nearest casino, Lake Mead casino. They have $2.99 spaghetti dinners. You'll have a ball, and meet some very interesting people...
The main economic engine in America is small business. Hardly the 'rich.' How lower and middle-class folks can continue to vote Republican, as the disparity between rich and poor widened during eight years of Bush II, not to mention created one of this nation's largest deficits, is beyond me. Not saying the Democrats are perfect, and not saying that ultimately our problems in the U.S. don't have to do with our own greed (overeating, consuming too much, owing too much, living beyond our means), but ultimately you have to be fair and realize that this country tanked under Bush. Period.
Oh, and by the way, yes, this was a bad idea from the get-go. I've been to Lake Las Vegas several times and it's beautiful, but this development is the 2000s greed incarnate.
As usual, a one sided article by Amanda Finnegan and the LV Sun. Makes you wonder if they have personal beef again Lake Las Vegas/Montelago Village. Seems reporters want to take photos and report their findings early morning and mid-week, which are typically a slower period.
Why not go there on a non-rainy and non- Olympics weekend and take photos then? Why? Because they will find packed restaurants and pubs. Yesterday, which was a sunny afternoon, I I observed lots of people enjoying an outdoor lunch, strolling the boardwalk along the lake and several families and couples having a picnic lunch on the grassy lawn. That would be something positive to report and Amanda wants to concentrate on the gloom and doom. The photos shown in this article are HARDLY representative of the community. Seriously, a lock and a chain with a purposely dulled photo is what the LV Sun puts as the cover photo? Come on, that is ridiculous and so inaccurate reporting.
The Loews and Montelago village are at 90% occupancy this week. The Loews occupancy is head of last year.
This article fails to mention that Lake Las Vegas Development will be exiting bankruptcy in April 2010. The plan looks good. It's available on the web for anyone to read. Cynical Observer did a summary of the bankruptcy plan in the Montelago Casino closing article. The HOA's here are all VERY strong and currently very few homes for sale in LLV, including foreclosures. (do an MLS search for yourself)
The Montelago Village summer concerts are beginning in April. Free movies on Thursday nights. Triathlons, beer fests and so many other events are planned. The recent chili fest had nearly 1,000 participants! People can continue to go out and enjoy the activities as before.
Are things perfect in Lake Las Vegas? No, of course not, but where are they perfect right now? However, one-sided articles like this certainly DO NOT paint an accurate reflection of what is really going on in the community and village. Whether you are a resident, visitor or soon to be resident, LLV is the most unique and beautiful place in Nevada.
Readers of this post should know that many of the posters here are the same person, with several different aliases. Most of them have negative things to say about everything. If there was an article about puppies or kittens, you would hear the same negative things.
So, go out and enjoy a FREE spring/summer concert on Friday/Saturdays and FREE movies on Thursday and enjoy the village/restaurants. It's too bad that this article only reported the negative side of things instead of accurately reporting the postive things going on.
Term25600,
The market has already made it's decision. Your statement of "let the market decide" is a day late and a dollar short.
LLV = a landmark example of the Potemkin school of Las Vegas Developement.
...if we build a "Tuscan" village out of styrofoam and stucco the rubes will surely come... Did we mention the Tuscan inspired architecture? That's why we called it MonteLago, see, because it's just like Tuscany!
At the end of the day - it's all just Tyvek and stucco! These so-called luxury properties have a larger lot, higher ceilings, crown moldings, granite and various appliance upgrades. This adds about 25% to the builder's cost basis -- (If they bought the land after 2005 -- they're simply doomed).
Just like any bubbled asset, they're going to have to write-down the units to a level that attracts buyers because of the VALUE - not the AMMENITIES! It is the only way to keep this development alive. The owners will have to drop 30-50 % off the asking prices and same for the hotel room rates -- The lake cannot be sustained at $2M per year".Keep a little water for cosmetic purposes and give back the rest. Get the HOA down to less than $200 per month -
To draw people in these times -- you need to offer something unique -- Penny slots are not unique -- Nor is 6/5 payout on Blackjack. LLV is going to be a luxury property at a "mid-level" price point. That will be unique enough to draw buyers. Henderson would be wise to offer tax incentives for 5 years for both the residential and commercial base.
There's sure a lot of haters out there, as usual. Haters of Las Vegas, haters of Nevada, haters of risk-takers, haters of money. Las Vegas was born and lives on RISK. Failure is one step on the way to success. People who have success are living the American dream. Las Vegas continues to exist because of all these things; it is the middle-of-the-road hater mentality that has really changed our landscape in the past 20 years. When will all of you give up and bail out of town for good?
Bouvier
Free, hey that's all you had to say, you got my attention ! The time to party is at lake las Vegas, How are the rents out there? Have they opened up any Section 8 housing yet, and when they do please post. Can we pic nic on the old golf courses yet ? Are we allowed to hunt the ducks, Do you need a license to fish in the lake? Can we bring our own beer ?
WOW! So many negative comments by so many people threatened by the privileged. Jealousy raising its' ugly head. We that live in Lake Las Vegas are mesmerized every day by the only breath of fresh air in this eye-polluted city. Our beautiful homes in this idyllic setting are in demand and selling quickly.The buyers are making quality improvements and enriching our already majestic community. Lake Las Vegas will not only survive it will be Las Vegas' most sought-after destination.
Thanks Bouvier! Great post!
HEY bf1lv
It started way before Bush..and if you are going to blame bush for the economy, your next breath should be blaming OBAMA for @#$%^&* it up more !!! Glad to see he is using OUR money to get the economy moving - NOT! Only one's he is helping is to repay the corporations (Insurance co's, banks, etc) that put him into office..
When's the last time any of you who bitch about whats going on, volunteered for a program in your city? Volunteered to work a reelection campaign? Hell, even volunteered for anything??You want to make a difference when you shoot your opinion out to us all? Then start WALKING THE TALK!!!
The economy runs in cycles...always has, always will..look at history, every 10yrs, there is a brief recession, some worse than others, some not. Look at 71-73, 81-84, 90-93, 2007 - 2010. And yes this one is the worse, but it still happens no matter who is president..
NOTHING IS PERFECT IN THE WHOLE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Are you blaming Bush for Asia's problems? Greece? Focus on the local officials - then you have something..they raise our taxes and no one is working? How the hell do they think we'll afford that? Not one of them have reduced their salaries like we all have, or laid off anyone in their office like we have.
Regardless of feelings of whats right / wrong - LLV IS a great place. People lost their homes, their jobs, their livelyhoods and all you AS*H***S do is jump for joy..I am with Bouvier on all this..
Get off your high horse and do something about it instead of "gloating" on everyone's misfortunes. Please let us know when you loose your job or house, so we can be there to support you (NOT) !!!!!
Maybe they could call it little Amsterdam with brothels and crack heads.
"The recent chili fest had nearly 1,000 participants!"
Bouvier, I was at the chili event and there were maybe 30-40 chili cook-off contestants and for $5 each we were given spoons and some plastic cups to taste and vote for the chili. When you state nearly 1,000 participants I assume you mean visitors paying the $5 and sampling.
The weather was beautiful and our party of 6 had a good time...only complaint was half of the chili cooking stations were not giving samples for the few hours we were there.
After that we took the kids to Lake Mead and fed the fish and ducks from the marina dock.
hey bouvier...
ever see that monty python movie...
where the knight gets his limbs ripped off one by one...
and keeps talking smack...
that scene keeps coming to mind...
sorry buddy...
just saying...
but i will say this...
if i was ever in a war...
i would want you on my side...
best of luck...
Turn LLV into a "Medical Marijuana" healing center!
@James Reza
With all due respect risk and having a plan is one thing. Sure we have many success stories in America about taking risk - some work, some fail. But to lump in overdevelopment without plan and consideration of the environmental impact and long-term growth of a community isn't risk - it's greed. How often do you drive through Las Vegas and encounter large empty parcels of land between apartment complexes and gated communities? (No planning, just greed.)
Sure, risk, as you describe- trailblazing, seeing what others don't, is one thing. Risk like gambling on complex mortgage securities and lending to people who can't afford mortgages and so on is greed.
There's a difference.
You can risk crossing I-15 on foot - that's a risk, but it's not smart.
Nobody hates wealth.. it's greed people are tired of. It has proven to be self destructive.
The main problem with LLV is that it's so far out in the boonies for that type of development. The foothills to the south and calico ridge to the west aren't hurting as bad.. then again those are wholy owned estate homes and a sensible private development.
If this had been built closer to the strip it would have done much better (then again what wouldn't). The anger with the greedy people involved stems from Henderson residents who will eventually front the maintainance.
Maybe they should re-name it "Lake Obama" in honor of the president who killed Vegas's convention business and sake the Lake's business into a sinkhole.
Harry Reid saved City Center. Why couldn't he save Lake Las Vegas?
I believe that Lake Las Vegas as it is known today at this moment is FINISHED. Now for it's future, I think the thing to do is to sell the entire property to a huge Amusement company and build a Raging Waters, Knottsberry Farm type of attraction out there. You already have three hotels for people to stay in, a large casino which could get a re-birth from the visiting masses, plent of water from the lake for water skiing, sailing, existing golf courses. Build it and they will come! Lake Las Vegas is too valuable to be abandoned!
Does anyone realize that Republicans and Democrats are the same thing? They are simply puppets for the corporate elite who run the country and the world. These cycles are just a way for them to suck the life and money out of the country allowing them to buy up everything very very cheaply gaining more control of the market. We need an independent who will at least expose the corporate treason occuring in our country and the lies told by the corporate media.
Republicans and Democrats are the same thing! Just watch Jesse Venturas show and find out why he moved to Mexico.
This reminds me of that old abandoned motel that was the first thing you passed when come in from LA years ago, it was their for years and years, then got burned down.
Clinton is responsible for all these bad loans people could not afford. The liar loans were created by him in 1997 so that poor people could buy homes. Chris Dodd, a Democrat, was in charge of the banking committee during this time and basically gave the banks and mortgage companies free reign to do whatever they wanted!! Obama would not have been elected if it weren't for all the black people, who by the way probably never voted in their life, being taken to register and to the voting polls in busses and thinking Obama was going to give them a $500 stimlus check every 6 months and free health care and unemployment benefits for 4 years!!! This country will not get back to prosperity until a Republican is back in office!! The middle class cannot get this economy moving because they don't know how to invest in anything except Wal-Mart and Mickey-D's!!!
Without having read the story, I was suspicious of its author's motives. A photo featuring a chain and padlock? How transparent can you get? You will never convince me now that this story wasn't the kind of agenda-driven hit-job that gives journalism a bad name and worse reputation.
Too many second chances, one not make first right. Full crowded lakeside cannot be art of italian style lifestyle. Why is this investors make every investment twice, ready is not right motion where action doubles all full drudgery price. And when asked nicely, investors say its the price of the day.
Right investment is too hard too to work, I notice.
Obama would not have been elected if it weren't "...for all the black people, who by the way probably never voted in their life...."
denver21
Please provide statistics on "black people who by the way probably never voted in their life" before you start spouting your racism.
Facts, man, facts...and NOT quotes from not so smart people, after the election, thinking that yes, Obama was going to "save them". Real facts.
I've got a great idea--lets turn the golf courses into dog parks--then all your trailer trash neighbors in east henderson can bring their pit bulls out to llv.
Take it from someone who has lived at LLV for 7 years, in a condo in the village. I am not rich, I am not famous, I am not an investor. But I know the facts.
I frankly don't give a damn what happens in bankruptcy proceedings as it is a pissing contest between heavily moneyed interests. People want something for nothing. No problem. In the meantime they coughed up around 3 million last year to refurbish infrastructure and extend the lifetime of the lake for 20 years. As long as the lake is there, so to will the amenities around it find their place.
The Ritz Carlton will be bought by someone and certainly will be maintained in the meantime. The Casino never made money, and frankly, good riddance.
The commercial owners of the Village are well capitalized as is the Village Association, which is one of the few associations in the entire Las Vegas Valley or Nevada for that matter that probably are.
Another healthy association is Viera, the condo/hotel in which I live. It is built like a fortress and sits on considerable funds. Twelve months ago there were over thirty units on the market. There are now a grand total of two. Certainly prices have fallen, what else is new. But they have fallen to affordable levels for the general buyer and have stabilized and risen some. Bouvier, having bought last year, is probably sitting on a 10% profit should he chose to sell. I doubt he will.
It is a shame there are reporters like Ms Finnegan who love to dramatize the negative and pile onto the so-called rich. It would not be mannerly to call her or her editors bottom feeders, but that's precisely what they are.
Anyone with half a mind knows when virulence like this shows up in print, someone has an ax to grind. Anyone with business acumen knows that articles like this are a contrary indicator for savvy investors.
For those looking make a few bucks I suggest you buy a condo or home in and around the Village at Lake Las Vegas, if you can find one, then sell it when Ms Finnegan and the Sun publish a positive article on Lake Las Vegas.
and yes...it IS kinda funny when the sun reports on bad news at a casino that the greenspuns don't own.
it's like mcdonald's owning a newspaper and that newspaper reporting on the fat content at burger king.
Actually both the condo and single family markets are reasonably stable in LLV. Condos running around $100 psf and single families about $150. Been pretty stable for 6 or 9 months. Inventory is par for Las Vegas.
I would think the real risk is a long term doldrum rather than any form of collapse. The damage is done. Eventually it will get better though not for a while.
By US standards LLV is a perfectly viable LV suburb. It ain't that far. And in time the development will start again...though likely at a somewhat lower price point.
What about the fees? tester? that's why people pay more for something without an hoa.
The guy from Texas, who was out there talking about the "family compound concept" was an arrogant jerk. I'm glad his baby is going down the tubes literally.
I wonder how stable some of those hillsides are. Look at a geological map. Also the tunnels under the lake are repaired? Slather some concrete on them? I wonder if an earthquake hit??
FROM A COST Benefit point of view, it would be cheaper to buy out this lake,(reduce the size of the water feature and compensate home and property owners) than to build the water-theft pipeline to the north.
How come the water czar does not go on any of the TV or Radio shows?
tester
Thank you for a first hand "look" at LLV. My ex and I always liked the area but never were able to afford anything there when we were in the market for a new home. Now we could but... It's all in the past now, but I still remember how beautiful it is there and wish that I was fortunate enough now to be able to afford a 1 bedroom condo because I'd be there in a heartbeat buying one!!
PS As someone also said - that picture is awful. With the padlock and chain it gives the impression the place is vacant with no signs of life! Sensationalism at it's best.
hey tester...
sorry bud...
ain't buying it...
the second that casino closes...
values get chopped in half...
other than that...
best of luck to you...
Great Idea... widen the freeway. Huh?
vote republican??? are you guys stupid or retarDed or both. 8 years of your guy in office caused this mess ..Obama (not my favorite) has been in a year he did not caused this mess... your boy George did just like the baseball team......you know who's gonaa save us and change things???? NO ONE!!! BECUASE NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN WASHINGTON CARES ABOUT YOU!!! UNLESS YOU FUNDED THE CAMPAIN
Las Vegas is not a golf driven by locals and tourists / Winter Escape (2nd Home) market. That belongs to Scottsdale and Palm Springs. Las Vegas can't compete with that market nor should it try - in good or bad times. We don't have the weather or the feel to compete, so they should not try.
"But for all the effects of the Great Recession at Lake Las Vegas, there is this optimism: The Nevada Transportation Department has begun a $13 million widening project on Lake Mead Parkway to accommodate anticipated increases in traffic to the development." If the resident and transitory populations are declining, why is the road being widened? Sounds like more government waste.
When it comes to roads, state & local governments need to go into maintenance-only mode and put off any new construction or expansions to existing roads.
Bouvier,
Wake up. The hotel is at 90 percent occupancy because they are giving rooms away at 59 dollars a night for groups and 99 dollars a night for others.
Loews isn't MAKING MONEY.
Btw, Expedia lists Motel Six at those same rates.
Loews will announce closure in the next 60 days Ill guess.
Sad for the homeowners.
The article didn't mention much about the city of hendersons role, a group well known for closed, private, back room deals. Maybe they know something we don't.
Tester...
Great comments.
I can only feel sorry for all those that don't wake in the morning to the beauty of Lake Las Vegas. Yes, I am privileged...privileged to be living here.
Wonder what there is about such a serene and peaceful location that makes all those not "privileged" so very angry.
Oh my god the lake is closing ? oh my god ohmygod, ohmygod, say it isn't so. Waaaaaaaah,waaa,waa waaaaaaaah, tears, sniffles , catching my breath . Oh dear what will we do? what WILL we do?. LMAO ROTFLMAO. I told em 12 yrs ago they were crazy and the snobby city council just snubbed thier noses at me. How ya liking it now Mr. Mayor Hafen? Lake Las Vegas ,pffft gimme a break, what a joke.
Rocco- you are exactly right however most people are stuck on these Republican/Democratic puppets. Nothing ever changes, the only one in congress working for the people is Ron Paul who is fighting to get rid of/audit the FED's corrupt and illegal monetary policies. The FED is nothing more than a huge ponzi scheme and we are the ones at the bottom of the pyramid!
It's pleasant to see intelligent commentary on my statements, but to be fair, "greed" (in quotes, because to each the threshold is different) is also one of the primary emotional fuels of Las Vegas. If one despises "greed," one is fighting a daily emotional battle in Las Vegas, and should probably consider moving elsewhere, for their own mental benefit.
Right on Tester,
I cant wait to move my family and me out there. Sounds like paradise
"I don't think what's going on in our community is any different from what is going on in the rest of Las Vegas," SouthShore Homeowners Association President Vicki Hafen Scott said.
That's exactly the problem Vicki, you don't think it's any different!
Here's the difference. When someone in a $3M house can't pay for it, they don't end up on the STREET, just in a smaller house.
I agree with Dipstick, Birdie- you da boid! ;)
Hi Jaun. You spelled "your" name wrong, it is spelled Juan.
I'd invite you for a beer at the Irish Pub in the Village if you weren't a nutcase masquerading as what I presume you think all the "rich white people" at LLV are loathe to be associated with -- Mexicans. You are a fool.
Many beautiful families of all races enjoy the Village and lake. They will continue to do so.
MRed: The fees pay for heating/cooling, trash, cable tv, water, maintenance, etc. It is a good deal if you live here. If you are an absentee owner, not so good. We are working to drive the fees lower.
Reza :
If we fail to put caps on the level of greed in Las Vegas, the house definitely wins.. How come they're losing???
My friend and I went to Lake Las Vegas today, as usual it was like a ghost town there. I checked the marina and looked at the rates, $30 an hour to rent a kayak, $25 an hour for a paddle board, hahaha! Oh and the marina was closed during business hours. Oh yeah this lake is going to be drained soon if they don't think of ways to make revenue. 2 million dollars a year for maintenance goodluck! How wonder how much association fees homeowners are paying here? Too bad for the businesses in the village. My friend and I went to the Gelato store and got some refreshments. All the other businesses have closed and some are probably about to close. SAD!!!
ChrisCross, I see EXACTLY what the rooms in Montelago Village go for each night when I get my monthly statement. Never has there been a room rate less than $129.00 night. Not bad considering the Wynn is giving away rooms for $99.00, plus a $50.00 credit. So, Montelago Village prices are higher than the Wynn.
The Loews is doing fantastic and was even written up by several hotel industry articles for their out of the box thinking to grab more customers. The Loews is going nowhere.
Tester and the others supporting Lake Las Vegas Community thanks for your positive input. And damn right, I'm not selling!! If you really want to see how special this place is, take a drive past the Loews and enter the Tremezzo community. The sales office is open during the day. The views and tranquility of that neighborhood will make you understand what a special place Lake Las Vegas is. It's not just about the village, there is so much more to being and living here.
Like Tester, I'm not rich or famous either. But still believe in LLV. I agree that Amanda's terrible photo and article is bottom feeding.
Today, I had lunch in the village at the Irish pub. The entire patio was packed and people had to sit inside as there was no more room outside. There were plenty of people walking through the village with shoppping bags. Not bad for a Monday. And these were no conference guests.
So, as I say over and over again, the village is still a great place to go. The concerts will start up soon. Great restaurants to eat at and of course the beautiful views of the mountains and the lakes.
Stay tuned for **ME** to post when LLV exits bankruptcy in April (it may be continued to June) as I'm doubt that Amanda nor the LV Sun will report it. It's positive. Why would they?
@ olecapt
I was checking the prices for condos at Lake Las Vegas for a one bedroom/one bath place, it runs around 39,000 dollars. How much is the association fee? Driving around the neighbourhood there today and the place was empty. It takes close to 45 minutes to the Strip and perhaps 30 minutes to Downtown, for locals that is quite a drive so even with low condo prices I don't know if people will still think condos at Lake Las Vegas is a good buy. With empty units equals higher association fee for homeowners. Goodluck with Lake Las Vegas, by the way I live in the Lakes area any my friend and I pay 115.00 dollars/month in association fees for a 2bed/2ba gated condo, it's on the high side but my property is near everything, from parks to the library, grocery stores, shopping, dining, casinos in Summerlin and the best part it is near Red Rock Canyon so I don't mind the 115.00 fee.
Typical Sun muck...
Just like clockwork, the Sun publishes yet another negative article focused on the fall of Rome (er, Lake Las Vegas). Not a single new development about the project; just a simple regurgitation of stories that have already been told (riddled with inaccuracies, but Sun, pay no mind). Essentially one of a million articles that should be labeled as editorials.
Ms. Finnegan is entitled to her opinion that LLV has lost its luster. However, a responsible journalist would cite all of her sources for some very objectionable "facts."
Even with all of its highly publicized problems over the past 2 years, Lake Las Vegas' home values declined by 31% year-over-year, according to the Review-Journal's annual property app/depreciation map released 2/21 (http://www.lvrj.com/business/home-prices...). Compared to that of the Strip corridor at -60%, Lake Las Vegas hasn't fared so poorly. Everyone is struggling:
1) Station Casinos: obvious...no citation needed
2) Zero Ritz-Carltons in the nation are meeting their interest payments right now: http://www.foxbusiness.com/search-result...
3) The Green Valley Ranch Station (JV between Station and Greenspun Fam, owners of the Sun): http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...
4) Planet Hollywood BKd last year: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/sep...
4) The Cosmopolitan: http://www.lvrj.com/business/16776061.ht...
5) CityCenter escaped BK by a hair: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/las-veg...
4) Every single master-planned community in the valley is going through some major tough times.
Obviously, the Sun has found it profitable to beat the dead horse that is Lake Las Vegas misfortune. Nothing new there, either. The media has been exploiting the war between the perceived "Haves" and the perceived "Have-Nots" for centuries. That being the case, how about running a weekly story about how the Sun's readership is approaching single-digits? So much so that they have to publish in partnership with their bitter rival, the RJ? Sounds juicy; bet they could sell a ton of papers (or whatever it is they actually sell now).
I love Las Vegas and visit often but this property should never have been built in the first place. It is a disaster to the water resources of Lake Mead.
You know, Bouvier and Tester, when you drive out of LLV to Lake Mead Pkwy, have you ever looked at the massive 150' mounds of bare soil on the other side of the highway? Which stretch for a half mile in each direction? Know why they are there? Magnesium mining. Dirty, filthy pits that have been left to rot in the desert air. The City of Henderson thought about remediating the area, but of course, they have done nothing. No more than a mile from your exclusive condos.
But that's OK. You also live about 2 miles from Jim Rhodes' toxic waste area known as Tuscany. Ammonium Perchlorate and hexavalent chromium waste heaven.
You're surrounded guys. Hope you don't have any kids, because you'll be able to locate them in the dark, since they will glow like a firefly in July.
Bouvier, you might want to cover yourself with a lightweight lead shield while luxuriating on your porch.
Best of luck, guys.
Who are these people that post on this site? So glad I canceled my LVRJ subscription. Lake Las Vegas is a beautiful place to live...but Las Vegas....not so sure. So over this nonsense.
@ term25600
Just excellent analysis. Keep posting!
maggieLLV, don't despair. Better days ahead. We should get together, you'd love my wife and friends. We should have a drink sometime.
And Ned: You can come along too, if you dare to cross the perilous brown zone of which you speak. Have you thought to alert the authorities in Arizona and CA that their water supply, namely Lake Mead, is but a few short miles from such a toxic wasteland?
Anytime Tester! Would love to join you, wife and friends at any of our charming restaurants for a drink or perhaps at our incredible South Shore Country Club! AMEN!
By the way.... this one person that is posting under so many aliases...do you have a life?
Maggie relax... your defensive posture is undermining your views regarding your community.
What a bunch of suckers. This whole place is going belly up & will be shut down before too long. Suck to be you if you happen to own anything out there. Run, run now!
Yes, my old pal NedNougat, also posts under the alias Bdover. I've also seen him post under Benjamin Dover and I think Don Best as well. Well, one good thing out of this article and the companion RJ article is that it stated 124 foreclosures. Ned/Bdover etc used to spout that there were hundreds of foreclosures. Maybe this will shut him up about that.. But in his usual fashion he will claim conspiracy or that Ms. Finnigan got confused from being near toxic waste. You just can't win.
MaggieLLV, welcome to the forum! Tester, as usual I echo your comments. BlondeGV, great information! Thanks!!!!
One of the posters above said he was out at LLV today and it was empty? What a crock!!!! I was there lunching at the Irish Pub at exactly 2pm. (Read above) What this idiot didn't even take into consideration before spouting that garbage is that the entire village is nearly sold out!! The Ritz was having a HUGE event and there were conferences at both the Loews and Montelago Village.
If anyone wanted to pick a weekend to say the same old and tired make believe "ghost town" quote about LLV, this was not the weekend to pull that lie. The Casamar Market (a really cool market in the village with everything) told me this was the busiest weekend they've had in a while. The "ghost town" quote is about as old and tired as the "last one please turn out the light". Let's move on from this everyone. LLV is not and won't be a ghost town.
In all seriousness, despite all of the differences in opinion here, there are many, many Ritz weddings that are now cancelled. How would you like to be the bride whos dream wedding is now cancelled? How would you like to the groom to hear about it? Yikes!!! Let's face it, the Ritz was the best wedding spot in the SW. Hopefully, who ever buys it will continue the tradition. (Mr. Wynn, this property is screaming your name)
As you negative cheerleaders with your pleated skirts and pom-poms on cheering on for just about everything in the world to fail, just remember, the terrible things you write here behind your safe anonymous profile(s) can have an affect on people lives. (I bet Ms. Finnigan has the same outfit)
Just remember, there are small business owners in LLV depending on not only the LLV residents, but also nearby communities for support. This type of negative publicity can put them out of business. You may have your opinions about LLV and it's residents. However, many of these business owners do not live there. They are just trying to make a living. How would you like to have your business fail by false statements and inaccurate reporting. There is NO reason for all of these negative comments. It's really time for this negative crap to end. Not just about LLV, but everywhere. Karma can be a real b**ch.
Lastly, ( I ran out of room) if any LLV residents are reading this, I encourage you to create one (1) profile and please support your community in these forums to defend this terrible and inaccurate article by Ms. Finnigan and comments being made.
BlondeGV, I'm still chuckling about the single digits quote. Funny, because it's true! :)
Tester and MaggieLLV, I'll join you for that dinner and drink too!
$13 million to build a 3rd lane in anticipation of all the traffic. Not when it was actually blowing & going at LLV; now, with the Ritz & the Casino closing, 2 golf courses closed, shops & restaurants closed, home sales in the dumper. Las Vegas Paving got their brethren to give them some work.
funny to listen to the suckers, i mean owners who are 50% or more upside down talking about how great the whole thing is. This is going to get much, much worse when so many people are still totally out of touch as so many seem to be in llv. This is going wwwaaaaaayyyy down from here. Don't buy anything until the last sucker throws in the towel! I feel sorry that so many are in denial about the true value of what they have---take your purchase price X .25 and you'll get the figure! The real estate sales people have done some kinda snow job and continue on at llv! "lots of potential!" the golf course is a real fixer upper!
Too bad coyote springs homes didn't get built--that that would have taken the cake--1 hour drive into the desert--NICE.
we need true democrats, not these 2 corporate parties we have now, not much different. ripvanstevem has no clue of how to make a country prosper, you don't start by having 1% of it's people ownibg 95% of everything. look around bozo and see where that great idea has gotten us. you'll bitch about welfare queens and other segments of our society, but where are you when companies have sent all our unskilled labor overseas, where are you when same companies are supporting letting as many illegals into our country that they can get.
hey bouvier...
works both ways partner...
don't paint an overly rosey picture either...
and talk somebody into buying out there...
only to see their investment get cut in half when the casino and the ritz close...
see what i mean...
bottom line...
it is a bummer...
i dig the fight in you...
and i wish you the best...
Lake Las Vegas was a bad idea from the beginning. If not for the phony paper wealth created by the Bush real estate bubble this monstrosity would've never gotten off the ground.
It is true that:
1.LLV is a depreciating asset.
2.Ritz Carleton is a management company and owns nothing except towels and monogrammed bathrobes.
3.People envy the wealth of others.
4.The LVS authored what is on the verge of propaganda - with many violations of proper journalism.
5.Some people will always rent and resent the landlord who demands payment.
It is true that - LLV will survive but with much less grandiosity as the original concept.
Hey Bouvier, I was at LLV yesterday at 2pm, too. At Monte Lago. I sat with my girfriend at the bar.
2pm - 2 people
3pm - 2 people
4pm - 2 people
The cocktail waitress hung around the pantry-There might have been 20 people on the casino floor. Pit closed down, of course. Sorry I missed you at that Irish restaurant/bar. One note-the place does keep busy because it's small-very small. A PITA. Nice food, however.
Maybe you should go over to the psychic bookstore to determine the future of LLV. Let me know what you find out.
Turn it into a prision
What's happening in Lake Las Vegas is unfortunate but it is the harsh economic reality coming home to roost in Las Vegas as well as the entire country. There's more pain to come people and the only way we can get through it is by helping one another.
I LIVE IN LAKE LAS VEGAS. It would be nice to open the lake to visitors with NON motorized but can you imagine living on a lake with jet skis running all day - go to Lake Meade.
Once the dust settles and the bankruptcy court gets settled, someone will swoop in and buy a golf course, hotel or casino for cents on the dollar and then be able to make a decent return. The problem (just like buying homes) was that the values were TOO high and hence these enterprises could not make a cent. You can make money on a $5M golf course but not a $50M one.
It is going to take time, but all the homeowners here are patient. They have investments and continuing to have a well groomed community will bring back golf course, hotel and casino investors.
"They have investments and continuing to have a well groomed community will bring back golf course, hotel and casino investors"
Unless the casino reopens as a VERY LOCALS place, ie moderately priced food, drinks, paying machines, etc., what casino "investor" would touch that property? It didn't work the first time around, so why should it work the second time around? Same with the hotel. Both will have to appeal to the masses and not the elite that it was all geared for the first time around. And I'm not sure some of the residents of LLV are going to appreciate a "Boulder Station" near their properties.
In response to someone's comment above about being in the Montelago bar and casino. Who would want to be inside on a warm sunny afternoon?
Gpminow makes a good point. With the continuing expenses that Deutsche Bank will be incurring and the expenses that Carmel Land (golf course owners)have and will incur in the future, they will want to dump them ASAP! A bank is not in the business of owning a hotel. The same does go for houses everywhere. The prices are now dropping to an affordable level. It was Duetsche Bank that had 2 billion invested in Fountainblue and sold it for 150 million. That's pennies on the dollar for sure! The casino and hotel is very nice. Someone will see the value, buy it and make a profit. A fresh start is always good.
In reading all of these comments today, it looks like there are more positive ones than usual or at least more people supporting Lake Las Vegas and agreeing that the Lake Vegas Sun did unfair and unethical job of reporting on this. Bouvier mentioned Karma.. with newspapers folding up everywhere...well, you get my drift. With a story like this, I have a hard time believing anything that the Las Vegas Sun reports now. Is it all biased sensationalism, propaganda and puffery?
Bus all the street people out there.
Lake Las Vegas Residents
270 of 1700 homes foreclosed on since 2007
Thats a higher rate than the national average
just another example of las vegans poser mentality,not all residents i understand,but obviously almost 1 out of 6 didnt belong there.
peace out
lol upon exit!
Bouvier and Tester..
Thank you for your well-informed and positive comments. This country, this state and especially this city need more people happy to be living their life here. As for those that are filled with doom and gloom, leave.
maggiellv,
I happen to think llv is one of the most visually stunning housing developments i have ever seen,and for those that are managing,i commend you,and hope for the best for the residents that CAN afford it
But i have also seen the people living there that had no business taking on a mortgage,especially in your community.las vegas is full,and i mean to the gills with wannabes trying to go for the status
I certainly have no right to criticize those who are managing,but the ones that dont follow through with their obligations is what has caused alot of this RE disaster
Good Luck to the real residents
peace out
hahaha.
now the real estate bubble is bush's fault?
hmmm...ya...it had NOTHING to do with liberal politicians strong-arming lenders to give loans to people that should have never been qualified.
can't be that, huh?
Comment removed by moderator. Comment contained an advertisement.
stevem wrote:
"now the real estate bubble is bush's fault?"
***********************************
That's right, steve. GWB and the anti-regulatory GOP encouraged sub-prime lending from day one.
Here's an oldie but goodie from The Worst Ever:
***********************************
"We're creating... an ownership society in this country, where more Americans than ever will be able to open up their door where they live and say, welcome to my house, welcome to my piece of property.
President George W. Bush, October 2004
***********e
Personally, I like the "We're creating" part of that sentence. True, Bush did create something...
LastThroes
TESTER - You are SPOT ON my friend!!! I totally agree with you. We bought, we are not famous nor rich, we took our savings and bought a home we could afford and put 53% down, knowing we would live our lives out there - LOVED the place and the community. Still do.
My fiance' and I lost both our jobs. TO ALL YOU NEGATIVE FOLKS ON THIS LOOP - I don't care what you pay for a home..if you loose your job and can't find another, you will loose your house. Has nothing to do with WHERE you live.
To the other poster who said it started with Clinton - you are so right - it is a history fact - well documented of what the programs were put in place did for the "affordable" homes across america. As for Chris Dodd? I lived in CT and he was a crook then as he is now."What's in it for me" mentality. Thats why he gave those "friendly loans" to people he knew, threw the mortgage companies he worked closely with.
People and NEWSPAPERS love bad news. It makes news.
IF you all really search the $28 Billion - with a B, lawsuit under way against Credit Suisse,
http://www.lvrj.com/business/credit-suis...
you'll know the real story. The attached article will tell you everything. They took LLV and 3 other developments around America, FUNDED Iran's NUKE program with the fees and proceeds that they sold as a "bill of goods" to the developers, the developers took the money and ran (some of them) and it goes on from there. The judge in Montana said to Credit Suisse he was appalled at what the bank did.
THEY (The bankers) SHOULD BE IN JAIL - BUT THEY AREN'T. If we did what they did, including even selling a bag of popcorn to IRAN, we for sure would be in jail. And they aren't?
Give me a break..The whole LLV deal is sad, a whole community wiped out just about. America on a whole has lost Trillions and Trillions of wealth that WE ALL WORKED hard for all our lives.
To everyone who loves the bad news coming from LLV - how's YOUR 401k doing?? Your not happy now - are you???
I will add one more thing..to those of you who bash LLV and ALL of VEGAS for that matter, obviously you don't travel much, because you would see it is like this across the globe. Greece, Germany, Asia, you name it, everyone is in the tank..and if you bash and hate Vegas so much cause "we're all a bunch of rich idiots - democrats / republican's" as you say, why don't you move? Oh, because you can't sell your home? Lost value? ggeezz,,,my heart goes out to you - NOT !! You're in the same boat as everyone else...Wanna fix it? Then do something besides Bitch. Start walking the talk..And unless you live in the community you Bitch about - you have no knowledge of what goes on - only what you read in the news or hear at the bar.
So GIVE IT UP and move on!!
I have been enjoying reading all the posts and have to agree with DavidM64, maggiellv, tester, Bouvier, and some of what bldblu have said. I felt my blood boil, however, at some of the mean and hateful comments others have made-most of which have nothing to do with those of us who live there.
I, too, am a resident and am familiar with a lot of what is happening at LLV. Of course, none of us like what has happened since Atalon took over from Transcon, the original developer. Most of the early buyers bought at LLV for the lifestyle, the security and the environment. All of which we still enjoy. I go to The Village at least once a week to enjoy the restaurants, the shops, outdoor concerts and weekend activities. I am not a gambler, so I rarely visited the Casino, but was a visitor to the Ritz for evening tea or a cocktail. I will miss the Ritz; but feel confident that another brand will come in and we'll be able to enjoy that lovely facility, once again. In the meantime, the real LLV residents will continue to go to The Village, enjoy the outdoors, and watch the sunset from our balconies. It is a tight community, but one that welcomes the rest of the valley to enjoy what we have for years. BTW, The Village has always opened it's doors to the community with free concerts on the lawn, children/family movies by the lake and family-friendly events through-out the year. Those who criticize LLV ought to come out some weekend and see for yourself what a grand time we are all having...you just might find that you,too, are having a great time.
Thanks retiredyoungster. It doesn't look good out there no matter where anyone lives in the USA. Sorry for your loss.
I really don't know how anyone, especially the youngsters, can make it these days, no jobs, no money, parents wiped out, government out of control making promises it can't keep and sucking more into dependency everyday, not to mention our enemies strengthening. Looks bleak.
But the USA has been down before, I wouldn't bet against us.
But with media like the Sun, who needs enemies. As you can see above, a comment from Andrea was deleted. She simply invited all those that were interested to check out the Village web site to see all the upcoming events that are scheduled.
But of course, the Sun had to delete it; couldn't tolerate anything positive about LLV.
Oh! One more thing - Why are some of you so angry? If you are not a part of the community or you don't like the community - why does it matter to you what happens?
GingarJar
Some of what i had to say
fact 1 270 out of 1700 foreclosures
fact 2 posers all over this valley
fact 3 i happen to know natalie gulbis(no big deal,but she did live in llv,also im not name dropping,but you residents know who im talking about,and it pertains to my above posted comments)and her neighbours 2 doors down had 7 single guys living there,all driving beautiful cars,and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that,but if you have a 70,000 customized hummer,and live with 6 other guys,just so you can be hip,and vegas like,well that is what i,and many others call a poser
the only reason i brought that tidbit of info up is the fact that that house was foreclosed on in 2008,hence the reason i said basically 1 out of 6-7 people can afford to live in your beautiful setting
peace out
Hey bldblu, perhaps those posers were simply wishing to be in close proximity to Natalie.
Get a life people. The world is not ending.
Well, she did have a girly calendar shot at various LLV settings and from what I remember ('cause I have one) it was lovely. Tester and Bldblu, you probably have one, too.
Lake Las Vegas must not be paying it's "fair share", because Steven Horsford told me so.
Hi GingerJar, thanks for your comments. It's great to see more LLV residents posting here.
Another thing in the article by Ms. Finnegan is the "lake sprung a leak quote". I know that was a metaphor about the financial issues, but I KNOW she put that there on purpose just to because of the recent pipe repair and wanted readers to beleive there was a leak. Good grief. Bottom feeding for sure!
Sergio, you always have something interesting to write about. But, I think you call it how it is.
With regard to the economy SO many of the posters here (mostly the same ones) keep on saying that Nevada needs to diversify away from gaming and not make that our only means of industry.
Well, hello? Lake Las Vegas/Montelago Village's main focus is non-gaming. Their focus is the family village, the lake activities, restaurants, free movies, concerts etc. So, why are the same people who want non-gaming industry condemning an "industry" (so to speak) that is non-gaming? Support what you are saying you think Nevada needs!!!!!!!
I just read on the Montelago Village Website that they are putting on Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew on March 26th in the Gazebo area near the Ritz's garden. This is a free event. Where else can you do this for free with the lake as back drop.
While it's abit off topic, Sue at Rocky Mountain Chocolate in the village is awesome! I was in a bind and needed a platter. I wandered into her store to see if I could buy one. As a total stranger, she gave me one, no questions asked. This is what community is all about. These are the businesses and people we need to support. The kind of people who would give you the shirt off their back and provide great service in a beautiful environment. Thanks again Sue!
So, go out and enjoy the village!!!!!!!!!!
I am from the midwest. I have been to Vegas many times. Reading all of the comments about llv. This past year is the first time I was off the strip. Was very refreshing to see the rest of the valley and all of the good people surrounding the strip. Visited many different areas. Was looking for a 2nd home. Looked at Sun City, the southwest area, and llv. llv is where we ended up. The prices have come down and i love the area. Its far enough away to enjoy the rest of the valley and yet close enough to visit old down town and the strip whenever friends are in town. Not a rich person by any stretch but now it is affordable. Compared to Ariz, there is much more to do than play golf and eat. Not sure why so many jealous people are writing negative comments. This area is very nice buy was overpriced in the initial development. As many places in the nation have found, we needed a large adjustment. why would anyone not like to play golf out here and support the valley. I go into the village but I also bring new people to the valley to support all. Everyone should win when the economy get back on track. I know that I will support not only llv, but the rest of the valley with my spending. Not a huge gambler, but I will visit many places and probably will drop some at each place. I will support many of the golf courses in the valley and also bring more people out to support those same establishments.. I would thing that will help everyone including some of the people making these negative statements. Get a life and enjoy what you have. I have a nephew in the Marines in Calif. Has been over seas twice. You thing you have it bad. Think again and support all including llv.
So, go out and enjoy the village!!!!!!!!!!
@bouvier
We wanted to enjoy our visit yesterday at Lake Las Vegas but not with that kind of atmosphere, it was depressing seing the place deserted, like I said, we went to the Gelato store to get refreshments, not that we want it but because we felt bad for the businesses there. It took us longer to get there than our visit at the village. Eating ice cream and staring at each other was pretty much what we did yesterday. I noticed you have banners reagarding military people getting discounts at the businesses there, the village need to market the area even more. It was a sad place instead of me enjoying my visit, I felt depressed. My friend and I did not stay long, after finishing our refreshments we took a drive in the neighbourhood, the roads are messed up, the golf course greens are dying and the ponds are empty, not a good sight for visitors. Depressing really!!
Typo error, "regarding".
Another typo error, "seeing" my apologies. Hehehe!
Bulletin, bulletin!
One mile down the road from LLV.
Carmines Little Italy is done. Closed. BTW, the rumor is that the Mountainside bar across the street is on the edge, too.
You know, Carmines, the place next to the completely empty new strip center. Across from the proposed for four years Smith's Super Market site, which backs up to 12 homes that are listed at 1.6 Mil homes. All unsold.
Ah, Tester and our beloved Bouvier, things are good. Keep up the (good) life.
Nednougat seems excited and happy that Carmines has closed and the rumor that Mountainside bar is on the edge. WTF? Are you kidding me with this type of excitment? We certainly need more people like Nednougat in the world. (not) Breaths of fresh air and beacons of hope in the world. (again, not) However, I'm not sure how that is relevant to Lake Las Vegas? This is relevant to the valley in general.
nednougat, let it alone. you are getting mean and stupid.
no Bouvier, I am not nednougat. not sure why you think so. I wish you the best.
Why do I think? I KNOW YOU ARE THE SAME PERSON!!! Here it is in black and white! Under your Bdover comment profile you gave a NedNougat@hotmail email address?
I remembered running across this a while back. I gotta tell you, scrolling through several hundred of your negative/cruel comments nearly made me vomit. Thank goodness the LV Sun removed many of them. If anyone wants to see all the comments each person writes.. you just click on their blue name in the comment box.
In one of your comments on page 28 of your comments you were actually seeking help from yourself? Are you crazy or what?
You have been exposed!!!!! Ha!
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Comments by user: bdover
Page 49 of 63
Older Newer Posted on: Residents of bankrupt Lake Las Vegas face uncertainty
Oops. nednougat@hotmail.com. Sorry, old lawyer, I was educated on the west coast.
(Suggest removal) 3/24/09 at 5:15 p.m.
Posted on: Residents of bankrupt Lake Las Vegas face uncertainty
Old lawyer guy, I didn't mean to infer that LLV is a toxic waste dump. No, it's built on a nearby hillside, so it has avoided the perchlorate and hexavalent chromium runoff nearby in the groundwater. But think about it-the departing mayor pushed through all kinds of remediation projects to allow development on toxic waste areas near LLV. Tuscany is one, there is now underway a project at Lake Mead Pkwy and Boulder that might lead to 15,000 homes being built on the same toxic waste-nearer to the WW2 factories that produced the hazards. I have such an amazing article from 2007 that points out the corrupt way that the City of Henderson, and specifically Mayor Gibson, pushed through remediation on these toxic areas. Did you ever watch the film "Erin Brokovitch?" Hexavalent chromium big time. I'd be happy to send you the article-I sent it to Jon Ralston-He did nothing. My e mail is nednouget@hotmail.com. Best of luck...
PS: I think both Bdover and NedNougat are mean and stupid. These are clear signs of szhizophrenia and I think you need serious help. Look at your above post telling yourself you are mean and stupid.
Reisling: I think there was a dept of defense conference at the village this week. Those flyers were just for them at the conference offering them a special price. I've never seen a military discount before, other than that.
If you were at the village on Monday 3/1 during the day, that is typically a slower time. I had lunch at the Irish Pub, it was super busy around 1pm. Go back to the village on Friday or Saturday night and check out the Irish Pub. Sunny weekends are fun to hang out and check out the free concerts and movies beginning in April. Google Montelago village for an events calendar.
You are correct about the unfinished roadway on the hill and some of the water features. This is all part of the exiting bankruptcy plan, which should be finalized in April. At that time, the golf courses will be spun out of the bankruptcy and cleared to be sold. They are currently brown as they were not overseeded in the fall. Once the temps warm up, they will turn nice and green again. The roadway, which just needs black top is supposed to be paved in May 2010.
I think I saw in one of your prior posts that you would enjoy more lake activites and wished LLV was closer. As part of the Bankruptcy exit plan, Phase 3, the north part of the lake will be a recreational park, instead of a golf course. (bike & walking trails, probably lake access etc) AND.. there will be an additional entrance to LLV via the new Galleria Parkway, which will begin at the village and cut through directly to the Galleria Mall area and 515. That will make quick easy access to LLV. That road is still a year or two out. Guests and residents will be able to bypass the 215 and Lake Mead Pkwy. Anyone can access the bankruptcy exit docs online.
I'm speechless.
Take your ball and go home, bdover.
Oh, and your paycheck from the Sun.
Oh, and Ned / bdover (let us know which name you would heretofore like to be called), of course Carmine's is closed. The whole company is in terrible shape.
Their signature restaurant, La Collina, located in MacDonald Ranch-ish, closed a year ago. I guess MacDonald Ranch & Anthem are all done-zo, huh?
Carmine's food was disgusting (I'm not picky), their pricing was ridiculous, and the atmosphere was colder than a hospital. That's why they went outta biz.
I bet you're a hypochondriac as well. I have a cough, so I must have sarcoidosis! LLV is having problems, but that doesn't mean that Carmine's would be in business if that were not the case. Bad businesses go out of business in boom times; they're mutually exclusive symptoms.
Ouch! Thanks BlondeinGV for your input on Carmines. I've never been there. But, I alway did see plenty of cars there when I drove by.
You bet I'll be cut/pasting that above post into every comment that Nednougat/Bdover makes from now on!
@bouvier
I have been to the Village many times and the people in charge need to market the place aggressively if it wants the Village to be livelier and full of people. Sadly majority of the times I was there, it was empty, businesses will not survive in that kind of atmosphere. You have a beautiful man made lake that cost 2 million dollars to upkeep, a lot of money for maintenance. If Lake Las Vegas authorities want the area to thrive it needs to open the lake to the public. Renting out watercrafts with outrageous prices will not bring in revenue to the place. Lake Las Vegas can compete with Lake Mead because it has better amenities. Restaurants, bars, shops.....whereas Lake Mead has 2 lousy Marina restaurants. Many people like myself who own small watercrafts can pay a minimal usage fee for the access to LLV. If things go worse at LLV, that lake could be emptied and you guys will be looking at a big ditch instead of a shimmering lake.
Over my side of town, 5 minutes away from home, Tivoli Village is proceeding with the construction of an entertainment village, with cinemas, shops, restaurants and bars, when the place finally open sometime this year, the few times I go to LLV will become even fewer. Goodluck and hope things turn out for the better!!
I agree with Bouvier. There must be some way to keep these weirdos off the comments page. After all, it seems that a lot of them have issues. Lake Las Vegas is a wonderful place, filled with great people. It's a shame that they denigrate and disparage our wonderful community.
reisling28: Good ideas. You are absolutely right about promotions. The Village is ramping those up. Come out to the beer festival on March 13th. I can tell you, the merchants here are warriors, hanging tough at 90+ percent occupancy.
The lake is going nowhere. Around 3 million was just spent to shore up its infrastructure extending its life for another 20 years. Also remember Henderson pulls a fortune out of LLV for real estate taxes, even with much lower valuations. It is also used as a backup water supply in case of serious fire.
Regarding the highway expansion, that is clearly a boondoggle, but from what I understand the funds were allotted some time ago and if not spent would be "lost". I assure you, I would have been out there with signs protesting such a stupid waste of money during these hard times, but rest assured, if the funds weren't wasted here, they would have been wasted elsewhere. Surely one does not believe in the age of "stimulus" it would have gone to retire government debt. It's a sad commentary on where we are in this country.
Back to the good news. The lake is open to the public. If you have your own kayak bring it out and plop it in the water and go.
If you have a bass skiff with an electric motor bring it out, get it in the water where ever you can and go fishing. We have long boat races where groups from around the region come in and race around. Motorized boats and/or jet skis are not allowed.
A buddy took me fishing and we caught 12 large mouth bass in 2 hours. Not bad. I see dad's with their kids fishing off the docks and shoreline all the time. Come on out, try your luck. It's catch and release though, except if you catch a carp, you have to take it out.
Also we have a public beach, yes, a public beach at Reflection Bay. Check it out. Look for the white sand.
When Tivoli Village opens up, don't forget us. Come on out, you can usually see us in the Irish Pub or the cigar bar laughing or crying in our beer.
Cheers!
Hi ArtWatson:
I concur completely with your economic analysis. Any astute armchair economist knows we are in the throws or the "winter" of the Kondratieff wave. We are in for one hell of a wide and no doubt a double dip recession, ie, a depression, provided we can even hold the previous low of 666 on the S&P 500. We are headed for hyperinflation if only to inflate a deflationary death spiral to give us a semblance of normal.
What you seem to miss, is we here at LLV, if we bought at the beginning, middle or end of the development are here and making the best of it. If it really goes to hell, we can sink our fishing poles in the water, catch some fish, cook them in a fortress like Viera in the middle of the village and survive. Not to mention we have Lake Mead down the road.
If there is social caos and we have to mount 50 calibers on the rooftops to defend this place against marauding Mad Max looters we will.
You really have no idea what kind of hardy folks live out here. You had better reaccess the silly idea we are an effete elite incapable of survival or holding out with the best of them.
Art Swanson you said it all and you tell it like it is... harsh reality. You know it's not going to go over well..... They always shoot the messenger.
Hey Bdover where are you?
We are all eagerly waiting for your response....
Hey Art, how's the view from your ivory tower?
The fact remains that you can't see the future of LLV any better than Miss Cleo's crystal ball. Sure, there's a possibility that what you say could come to fruition. The likelihood is not on your side, Brother.
Where you go wrong is: "their dreams are fading along with the infrastructure surrounding them." The infrastructure is going nowhere. In fact, it's all about 10 years new or younger. That means that the assets are solid. A rose is still a rose by any other name, and so is a 5-diamond hotel. Whoever purchases the Ritz and attached casino will do so for next-to-nothing. And, it will still be a 5-diamond hotel and resort with a fantastic casino space. I agree with CynicalObserver on an old post, they will need to invest a few $s to fix the air filtration system since it has a consistent musk. But, besides that, the heavy lifting is done. Same goes for the golf courses. Do you really think the banks (or private lenders) who own these assets will let them deteriorate? If so, you don't have as much experience in the finance sector as you say you do. And, the City of Henderson would agree with me, as it has on multiple occasions (think they're meticulously mowing dormant Bermuda thrice a week for fun?).
More, the piece de resistance, the lake, is in fantastic shape; just got it's 30,000-mile tune-up last year. And, City of Henderson has said time and time again that it will preserve the lake. As long as there is a physical lake, Lake Las Vegas will exist. And you should be happy about that! Variety is the spice of life, Pal.
Ever heard the brash phrase "when blood is on the streets, buy property?" It is derived from Bn. de Rothschild's (of the House of Rothschild) quote: "My dear friend, if the streets of Paris were not running with blood do you think you would be able to buy at the present prices?" The same rules still apply, and are rampant practice for the wise and resourceful right now. I can guarantee you there are some very wealthy, savvy eyes looking very closely at Lake Las Vegas (some enormous moguls, who I'm happy to name once the ink is dry).
So, Art, Buddy, I'll be sensitive enough to not shout "I told you so" when Lake Las Vegas rebounds. I'll be very disciplined and discreetly whisper it. And, when that time comes, by all means, feel free to head out for a brunch cruise, lakeside happy hour, or an amazing evening of fantastic scenery, great food, relaxing jazz, and a smooth Cuban. Cheers!
Hey BlondeInGV: Don't be dissing my girl Ms Cleo.
Ha, tester!
Call me now fer yer free readin'
Well, I've been ratted out by that stinking nednougat. A good friend, drinks a little too much, tends to be nasty when it comes to Lake Las Vegas. He's a construction superintendent, who is not working. I think he lost a bundle on the tables a while back. I kicked him out recently, and we don't keep in touch anymore. I had to use his EMail address, as I was going through some tough times, too.
Me? I'm fine now. I apologize for his actions and writings. In the future, I hope he doesn't use my name and any E Mail address. But there's really not much I can do beyond that. I hope Bouvier will understand. Life goes on...
Really, bdover?
Cuz email addresses are SO expensive.
If everything else fails, we can turn the Casino into a pyche ward, bdover aka nednougat, et al, can check in with all his/her multiple personalities and sustain us through the hard times, especially since we will soon be able to bill the feds for his/her health care at a handsome profit.
You don't understand, wealthy blonde in Green Valley, that until recently I was without a computer. Almost homeless. nednougat said I could use his computer to browse and send and receive EMails, so I used his EMail address. Why not? You wealthy people don't realize that without a car, getting even to the library is a problem. As Joe South sang "Walk a mile in my shoes". Shame on you.
I'm with BlondinGV....
Really? I mean, really? That's the BEST you can do for a lie and cover up Bdover? Did you read your same comment (that I pasted above)that I did when you gave out your email address while in a Bdover post? Why would your "friend" be posting in your Bdover account, giving out a Nednougat address? Why didn't your "friend" simply post in their own Nednougat account? Am I the only one that doesn't get it?
When you are on tough times, you borrow someone's gym membership card or a Costco card not a free Hotmail email address.
To quote Judge Judy, "if it doesn't make sense, it isn't TRUE"!!!Your story makes no sense and is not true.
Not only does this give you serious credibility issues on anything you've commented on, but also makes one wonder and proves my point that many posters have several aliases and comment to support their own opinions and point. PS: Between Bdover and Nednougat, there are over 1000 comments, all spouting out the same negative garbage. I've also seen posts under Benjamin Dover too in the RJ.
I too miss Ms. Cleo too. I hear she is in jail for tax evasion or something. She had the best commercials. Maybe when she gets out, she can come work at the psychic shop in the village. THAT would create buzz and attract a whole new crowd to the village.
Ha, ha, ha...
Ha...
bdover, I'm still laughing.
I must be wealthy since I have a "free" email address, "free" internet access at a public library, but can afford a CAT bus pass?
Just admit your transgressions.
Or not. You'll probably just keep spinning that web of ridiculous, transparent lies.
Ha, ha, ha!!
Ha!
I get a kick out of reading your comments! My husband and I always joked that we lived in the ghetto of LLV (we can see you from our back wall). Were all ghetto now.
Speaking of aliases, why is it that every time the Sun does a LLV story, Bouvie and others show up with their ridiculous p.r. spiels? Seems like the marketing people at LLV (hi, bouvie)are always on the troll, trying to spin the disaster at LLV with the obvious flair common to real estate zealots. Only real estate hucksters(and used car salesman perhaps) are SO over the top with their hustle.
Okra, have you read any of the cruel and negative comments and news stories here? We have to be our own advocates advising that things are not as terrible in LLV as the media portrays them to be.
Above all else, LLV is a beautiful place. The LV Sun's main photo is dull colored empty lot with a lock and chain. That photo is hardly representative of LLV. This is mine and everyone elses point, all one sided, all negative, all gloom and doom. Not just here, but all news stories. I'm trying to be a postive advocate everywhere. It has to start with someone and somewhere.
I've never said things are perfect. But there are alot of postive things in LLV, Las Vegas and the world that are constantly not reported on accurately. Gloom and negative sells.
I think maybe, Celine Dion and other residents with deep pockets should invest in their community. Celine should sing, while her husband can run the casino. Things would take a turn for the better!
Bouvier:
Reality is indeed cruel, and it's not the Sun's job (apparently it's yours though?) to sugar coat it. If you want you want to read sparkle pony real estate fluff, check out the RJ.
This is an important story for a lot of reasons, not the least being that LLV is good example of what happened here. It illustrates what happens when the economy is based on shady developers, crooked bankers, venal politicians and an equity crazed populace.
There's lots of negativity out there, for sure, and you've got a good point about the picture. But when you come on this board time after time sounding like the real estate section of the Saturday RJ, don't be surprised when people poke fun at you. In fact, all things considered, the headline "...loses its luster" is putting it kindly.
One more thing if you don't mind. Your p.r. skills suffer greatly when you try to disparage/discredit others who post here. It makes you sound petty. No matter how many aliases a person has (I'll go out on limb here and guess that Bouvier isn't your full legal name) It doesn't make LLV sound better. The guy could enjoy strangling puppies for all I know, but it does not change the facts about LLV, nor does it make your prose sound more reasonable.
I have to ask this question to artswanson. Does a deal like the town center enter into your equation of the wasted money? Hopefully it won't go down or that would be a huge pimple on the face of the strip. I wanted a place away from the hustle of the strip. The next 9/11 could happen down there. It's great being at llv. I have bought on the down side. The whole thing was overpriced in the beginning. Not sure on who will come out the big loser, but it will also be a great opportunity for the next buyers or the buyers after that. Being new to the area, I am amazed of how great a spot it is for the money and how much fun is 30 minutes away. Went to Carmines 4-5 times. Cold atmosphere and food was ok. Not a good location for that type of place. People that come that far will go to the village. That was another case of poor planning. Heard that both golf courses may be purchased and opened mid year. That will lead to more traffic which should lead to someone more interested in opening the Casino. Would rather spend $ 150 to play llv than $ 400 to play Cascata. Whoever mentioned the road is correct on opening the other lane. They have moved all of the large bolders to pave that side.
Progress is coming and it is exciting. I love this place. Thanks all for the positive comments. Lets make this area and all of the valley the most exciting place in the nation. Obama might like it one of these days too.
Who cares how many aliases someone posts under...?? There have been some excellent posts pro and con here but some have made the "discussion" way too much like "Jerry Springer"
Okra -
I will electively lump myself into what you would mistakenly characterize as Lake Las Vegas cheerleaders. You need to reconsider the position that you assume we non-LLV-haters take. I'm not speaking for everyone, including Bouvier, but I'm pretty sure (sans 1 or 2 random crazies that pop in and out of LLV commentary) most would agree.
Let's say the consensus baseline is zero. When the Sun publishes editorials (despite their best efforts to pass them off as articles) with insultingly negative spin, they thereby aim to denigrate the community further. In doing so, they bring the consensus down to -10 (this is all figurative, Art, my little friend). Without posting actual facts in honest debate, the perception from every region of the world becomes that LLV is worse off than actuality.
What I aim to do is to bring light to those reporting mistakes that the Sun makes. Whether this is purposeful or negligent will remain my opinion, but we're not talking opinions here, just facts. I also try to uncover the most ridiculous pseudo-facts generated by the frequent peanut gallery who go wild with commentary at every LLV article. In doing so, I'm just trying to get the consensus back to zero (not +10). I have no interest in misrepresenting the community, and if the Sun were a reputable medium, their reporters would be required to hold no bias as well. But, that's not the case, as evidenced by dozens upon dozens of "articles" published to erode public perception.
Last time I checked, opinions are allowed to be sugar-coated. That's why they're opinions. Where the Sun and the LLV-haters get into trouble is when they start to "stretch the truth" or simply make things up:
IE: "Wells Fargo took over Loews Lake Las Vegas -- one of three hotels alongside the lake -- in June, and in the latest in a string of bad news for Lake Las Vegas"
The above is FACTually inaccurate. The Loews' parent company and partner in their Lake Las Vegas property is actively fighting the foreclosure, and it is still in court. Why would the Sun publish this without checking the facts first? Great question!
Thank you for your polite response. We'll have to agree to disagree about certain points, but that's ok, because at the end of the day, I don't think our humble opinions are going to make a big difference anyway.
As you know well, there's a lot of anger and cynicism going around. So many people have been hurt since the bubble burst that it's only natural for them to lash out at what they think caused this mess. Since a lot of people think that the "irrational exuberance" of the bankers, developers, and real estate people are what caused the crash, and since LLV embodies all of the former, it's no wonder people get riled up when someone comes on the board sounding like a poster child cheerleader for the 05 economy.
What I think you guys get wrong is in thinking that people hate LLV... just because. I don't think people want to see it fail because they're jealous or mean or whatever. Only a sick person indeed would wish calamity on another person. But we also don't want to return to the "my house is an ATM" machine economy of yesteryear, and for better or worse, right or wrong, that's the way you guys tend to come across.
Okra, if you read some of NedNougat/Bdover's responses he/she is that person wanting to see things fail. It's one thing to have a difference of opinion, but it's another to wish doom on anyone. Which this person does. This person seems to take pride in it. I can take the rubs by them. I think it's funny. The wishing fail and doom that is encompassed in all of their posts is just frustrating, in a time when we all should be trying to figure a way out, instead of tearing each other apart.
I do agree, there does need to be changes in banking systems, credit availability and get things back to normal. This is why the 5 diamond Ritz's, Four Seasons ect are having issues everywhere. Lake Las Vegas is changing and adapting to the times. This is not going to be accomplished by wishing gloom, doom and failure on anyone's choices. Getting a more moderate family hotel to make use of the lake is what we all need to try to manifest. Creating jobs, creating family fun and memories.
I only purchased last year. I got a great deal. I bought because the area is visually stunning. I'm not rich, but was able to recognize a good deal and made it work. Hopefully it will pan out. If it doesn't, it's not life changing for me.
9ballguy, the problem with posting under multiple aliases is that 1 person can create the illusion of more people having the same opinion. Public perception is that if more agree, it must be true. Who knows how many of these posters are the same person? This skews the who process.
Thanks for your input BlondeinGV. These thought provoking posts are really what we need here.
I think I've posted enough here on this topic. Have a nice weekend everyone.
*****typo above **** Skews the whole process*****
@Tester
Thanks for the invite. I'll give it a try and bring my kayak this coming Spring and Summer. I've seen areas where I can carry my kayak and launch it. I don't like to lose face so I hope I don't get reprimanded for using the lake.
RJ came out with a story today on LLV. Over a 1000 fish have died. The hits just keep coming.
@woobert - This is the "rest" of the story:
"Steve Weber, a lake and river ecologist who works as a consultant for Lake Las Vegas, said the algae is only toxic to fish and amphibians that use gills to breathe. It poses no danger to humans, dogs, birds, amphibious insects or even "a cow that might drink out of the lake," he said.
Weber said the bloom is naturally occurring and might have already peaked.
There is no way to treat for it in a lake of this size, so the algae will be left to run its course. He said it should disappear on its own in a few weeks."
No drama, please, woobert.
Hmmmm.... Drama? Drama has been happening for the past 3 years at LLV.
Everyone has put too much trust into everyone ( realtors, management, HOA , etc....) They are the ones who filled everyone with a bunch of empty promises!! I wouldn't put too much faith in your lake ecologist either. I would do more research before I kayaked (bacteria). I feel LLV will bounce back, but it will take some time. Hopefully, it will be done with smart, honest, trustworthy people.
Interesting string!
Ah, The haters and the lovers. So sad that the haters are being used by the Yellow Journalists. And to the Lovers, love it! Haters, do not believe the liberal Stenographer-Journalists of today! Remember that control of the press is control of societal thinking!
Read and beware:
Yellow journalism, also known as the "Yellow Press", is a type of journalism that downplays legitimate news in favor of eye-catching headlines that sell more newspapers. It deceives the audience it is intended for. It may feature exaggerations of news events, scandal-mongering, sensationalism, or unprofessional practices by news media organizations or journalists. Campbell (2001) defines Yellow Press newspapers as having daily multi-column front-page headlines covering a variety of topics, such as sports and scandal, using bold layouts (with large illustrations and perhaps color), heavy reliance on unnamed sources, and unabashed self-promotion.
The image of the lock on an intentionally undeveloped parcel to imply a "locked" community is intentionally mis- representative. Shame on the photographer and the editor for irresponsible journalism and photo jounalism(?), Clean up your act.
In order for our country to survive, we must have a truly FREE,OPEN and NON BIAS press?
Thanks Steno. You are correct. The lock and chain are actually up there preventing anyone from driving onto that open lot. It could be dangerous in the dark which would cause and insurance problem for the owner or owners. Thanks for noticing.
I agree with Steno on all points! Good analysis of the media in LV and everywhere.
I bought a foreclosed home in LLV last year at auction...spent about a month updating it (it had been vacant for a few years) and then I sold it within 3 months of my purchase. I made a net profit of approximately $70k...including all costs, (e.g. all my travel to/from the development). I wasn't planning on selling this house, I really wanted it as my vacation home, but I couldn't resist the unsolicited offers the agent received while I was in escrow during the purchase. Anyway, I'm not trying to suggest that these deals grow on trees out there, but that's how I made it out there.
Anyway, after selling, I just found myself regretting it more and more...LLV is far away from the strip which is a bit of a draw-back from an investment standpoint, but it's so beautiful and serene and you really learn to appreciate it if you're staying there (and I was sleeping on the ground of my place in a sleeping bag...not in the Ritz). The summer concerts are very cool...and really do invoke memories I had of travelling around Europe.
Well, just in the past month, I bought a townhouse in the "V" development. Seems like you can get the 3/2's there for around $150k, which is about $90/sq ft. The fees are pretty high, but I can stomach them and I like the pools and clubhouse...I'm prepared to lose money if things keep getting worse, but strangely, I'm not worried about money the way I usually do. In fact, if these things keep dropping (maybe sub $100k for a decent one), I'll buy another one and give it to my parents, so we can all vacation together and not be cramped.
Anyway, I don't disagree with those who think this thing looks bleak, and I don't disagree with those who say it's still great. I fall into the middle I guess, but am willing to place a bet that this place will always be recognized as a top place to have a second home (once things recover)...and, this might sound weird...but I just like the people I've met out there.
Cheers!
sfbaybear, good job on making money in bad environment. I am considering a home in V as well, what are monthly fees. Thanks for info
Lake Las Vegas (the actual lake) is the star attraction but all it's being used for now is to "look at." Being from Minnesota, (land of 10,000 lakes) If you don't "USE" the lake, there may as well not be one. They should have weekend drag boat races, or grand prix boat races, of PWC races or swimming meets or any number of activities on the water. Maybe a high end RV park will be necessary. In any event, someone with imagination needs to manage it.
This article is very one sided. I am quite disappointed in the article as a whole and most especially with sections like "allowing shopkeepers to while away the time talking to friends on the phone or taking long cigarette breaks."
Outrageous.
Now, lets talk about what it is like to live in Lake Las Vegas. Absolutely Fabulous.
Cant live here? Dont live here?
Come visit.
If you dont love it, you are dead.
Pay attention, haters... times are changing and yes, it is for the better. Unfortunately, a lot of people were hurt by these tough times, but these though times will pass. Lake Las Vegas offers more than any other place I can think of in Nevada.
Also, Our HOA go for supporting the actual development, not the golf course etc.
My thoughts are fragmented as I write this... Im watching my children in the pool and the the Big Horn Sheep on the Golf Course behind them.
Im sorry, but I have to tell you, Lake Las Vegas offers so much more than most think.
If you have not been out here, come see.
We are sorry the Ritz is gone. Very, very sorry. I happen to believe this is temporary.
Lowes is beautiful. Bernards Bistro has the most exquisite food; within 3,000 IMHO
There are a lot of things happening right now.
Packing up and leaving LLV, is not one of those things happening with us, thats for sure.
Like my Husband said- "Things couldnt be better for us right now."
In other words... we dont believe the state of LLV is going to get worse, things are looking better than ever.
Want specifics on living here? Write me!
Lake Las Vegas has exited bankruptcy, with no debt and nearly $30 million in hand to re-invest into the community.
The plan is solid and will allow Lake Las Vegas to move forward and prosper.