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StumbleStudy finds Nevadans face second-lowest tax burden in nation
Nevada spending among top for fire and police services, study says
Thursday, July 1, 2010 | 2 a.m.
TAXING DEBATE
The political and policy debate in Nevada is all about who can most convincingly promise not to raise taxes. Both candidates for governor say they can improve education by better spending existing revenue. All but a few liberal legislators deny that they will consider raising taxes to close the state’s $3 billion budget deficit.Sun archives
If you, Nevada, feel overtaxed, just imagine how the rest of the country feels.
Nevada’s state and local tax burden ranks 50th out of 51, according to one study that includes Washington, D.C. A family of three living in Las Vegas with a $75,000 annual income had the 47th lowest tax burden compared with a similar family in each state’s largest city, another study found. More, we reportedly have near-bottom levels of taxpayer funding for welfare, education and parks.
Yet the political and policy debate in Nevada is all about who can most convincingly promise not to raise taxes. Both candidates for governor say they can improve education by better spending existing revenue (we supposedly rank 49th nationally on spending per pupil). All but a few liberal legislators deny that they will consider raising taxes to close the state’s $3 billion budget deficit.
U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle tapped into the anti-government, anti-tax anger among the electorate to win the Republican nomination to challenge Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
“I would argue that Nevada is No. 1 in anti-tax, anti-government sentiment,” state historian Guy Rocha said. “It drives the political agenda.”
Nevada always has had a libertarian-leaning, conservative reputation. With the size of the federal debt and bailouts, combined with Nevada’s highest-in-the-country unemployment, anger at state and federal government is peaking, according to many political observers.
Rocha blames the political unrest on transplants to the state, upset with the government spending in the states they moved from, such as California or New York. They come to Nevada and assume state spending is similarly out of control and demand taxes not be increased. Or else their children are already educated, and they don’t want to pay for it again, he said.
“They’re taking out their frustration on Nevada,” said Rocha, the longtime state archivist.
A comparison of the 50 states released this week by the Taxpayers Network, a nonpartisan Wisconsin-based group that compiled reports from different organizations, portrays a state that is miserly when it comes to most public spending.
The Taxpayers Network said our welfare spending ranks 50th. We have the fourth fewest state employees. We rank 40th on parks and natural resources. And from 1998 through 2007, state spending per capita was among the slowest to grow.
Republican legislators such as state Senate Minority Leader Bill Raggio of Reno declare that we have one of the leanest state governments in the country. But he’s still met by accusations that he’s a Republican in name only.
He said voters are the angriest he’s ever seen.
“People keep on being fed misinformation,” he said. “I don’t think they understand the true situation of what the tax burden is in Nevada.”
The Taxpayers Network highlighted some anomalies:
• We spend the fourth and fifth most on police and fire services, based on census figures.
• The average Nevada public schoolteacher was 22nd highest paid, according to the National Education Association, the national teachers union.
Not all agree that Nevada is a near tax paradise.
Conservatives point to another study by the Tax Foundation in 2008 that showed per capita, our state revenue is 22nd. Similarly, before the 2009 session, conservatives alluded to studies that showed Nevada’s per-pupil education funding was about average when capital costs for things such as new schools are included.
Geoffrey Lawrence, a fiscal policy analyst with the libertarian think tank Nevada Policy Research Institute, said the growth in state spending from 1998 through 2007 was higher than the Taxpayers Network calculated. When using figures from the state on population size and spending instead of census data, Lawrence said per capita spending increased 13.8 percent over the 10 years, instead of a 6.8 percent increase.
Carole Vilardo, president of the conservative Nevada Taxpayers Association, also warned against using the statistics.
“Depending on what taxes are included, how you calculate it, I could make us a high-tax or a low-tax state,” Vilardo said.
David Steffen, director of external affairs for the Taxpayers Network, said his organization is nonpartisan and without an agenda to increase or decrease taxes.
“We think there’s a lack of objective information provided to decision-makers or opinion leaders. We provide data. That’s it,” he said. “We let other individuals, experts, individual parties interpret (them) and spin (them). These ranks are very objective and quantifiable.”
With the state facing a $3 billion deficit, how spendthrift or efficient Nevada’s government is will be a key in the debate. Although gubernatorial candidates Republican Brian Sandoval and Democrat Rory Reid are loath to suggest taxes, a tax proposal is likely to come from the Legislature.
“We’re going to have a $3 billion shortfall in the existing budget, which has been cut pretty drastically,” Raggio said. “The level of funding we provide for what we call essential services, I don’t think it’s exorbitant. It’s pretty reasonable.”
But what qualifies as “reasonable” is always a matter of debate.
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Illinois and Chicago has to be one of the most taxed in the nation. We have the highest sales tax and they tax bottled water a nickel per bottle (just imagine if they did that in Las Vegas) where a lot of water is consumed. That nickel adds up if you buy a lot of cases of water. Las Vegans, feel lucky, you have no state tax and the sales tax is reasonable. If some of the things that go on here in Chicago would to happen in Vegas, there would be all out revolt.
That says it all about how this state feels about education.Education is at the bottom and police and fire $$ way at the top. So all the dummies they spit out of the school systems can go get a high paying job for the fire or police department.After all that's were the state budget is.
So what did the article tell us? Nothing. Everyone who has a job and buys stuff and pays utilities in the country are being gouged by the fed, state and commissions. Rory Reid and his commission are raising the rates at UMC so they can afford to give the hospital staff a raise after they fired a bunch of them. They will get their votes. They approve utility rate hike after rate hike. I got a power bill that was over 800, i called the power company as this has never happened in the 15 years i have been in my house. In short, i received no help, if i dont pay, i will lose service. WTF........ No help from Rory on this one either, no return call, nothing. They only care about being elected. Dont let him run the state, if that happens, you will see higher rates and taxes on everything. He desires to make his father proud of him.
It's logical that we are at the bottom of the tax list: we are at the bottom of every other list as well.
The Province of Ontario in Canada today began a 13% value added type tax. Most goods already were taxed 13%, but now all services will be taxed 13% instead of 5%. This will be a great windfall for the Ontario government. We wish the government did not waste so much money, but what government is frugal?
Americans complain the most about being overtaxed, but in reality you are the least taxed people in the western world, yet you still want government services equal to other countries.
That cannot happen unless you raise taxes substantially (which is unlikely to happen) or your federal, state and local governments stop spending so much (which could happen but politicians want to get re-elected, so never seems to happen). Hence the hopeless deficits.
Another shining example of a typical uninformed, uneducated, obtuse Nevada would be ConcernedNative who complains about "...being gouged" and having an "...power bill that was over 800 (dollars).
First, readers don't know if this poster is telling the truth so please keep that in mind.
Second, even if true I would like to know what this poster understands about energy use and what can be done about it.
Third, the article was about taxation...not utility bills.
That's like being told you have the second least severe case of Aids in the country.
Being the lowest taxed in the nation you can't really squawk too much when taxes are raised!
An $800 power bill? Either you live in a really, really large house or you need to seriously look at your energy consumption. Set the A/C at a higher temperature, turn off lights, look into insulation.
We are we 4th most expensive on Fire and Police?
As a transplant from a high tax state (Maine) I know what it feels like to live at both ends of the state-spending spectrum. Unemployment is high everywhere because of actions at the federal level. However, in NV the economy is straining at the leash. Get the fed out of the way and we will boom again. In ME an economic depression would never lift because the state spending was grinding everyone down. Universal healthcare (Dirigo) is killing the ME economy. A little outside perspective shows that we have it good here. Keep the taxes low.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
There's enough number-spinning in the above article to keep the message board howling all day long!
Chunky says:
Less taxes are good! Smaller government is good!
Now, if we can just make sure that the only ones benefiting from tax revenue / government are those who pay or have paid taxes.
That's what Chunky says!
Illiteracy? good. Cops? good. Firemen? waay good. Schools? LOL LMAO Future? whoosh
People will pay $1200 a year for cable and Internet but whine about paying $1500 a year in property taxes. Wonder which they get more out of.
Back when the sum total of all we knew was in large print in a small handbook, life was pretty good here in NV.
But now that the entire volume of understanding refreshes and differentiates every six months or so, NV is kinda stuck because we're kinda last century when ya compare to other places.
We have poor schools, apparently as an intentional feeder and warehousing system for our industries here. We crank out dealers, cashiers and room service folks, not engineers, doctors or journalists.
Our kids play games, just like us. They get loaded, just like us. They squander their lives, just li...
Yes Journey we will be dragged down to eurosocial levels with:
- Better health care (accosrding to all international authorities)
- 5 to 6 weeks of annula vacation
- Earlier retirement
Oh, the horror!
It is typical that most of these comments come from the entitlement crowd. Low taxes, with most of those collected going to the few broad-needs services that can be better provided by the whole than the individual? EXACTLY.
I'm happy we're #2, but I'd be happier if we were #1.
I'd rather have low taxes and have business's come here than be in NEW YORK , or CALIFORNIA where u are the highest taxed states in America and it's still not enough. I love Nevada!
800 dollar power bill? Call Nevada Power! Calling Rory means you want REGULATION. You can't have it both ways.
Also, I still don't understand why the "low taxes" people think that that brings in business. Nevada is low low low in attracting [non-gaming] business. That is why we have such a high unemployment rate [i.e. the highest in the nation!]. Maybe businesses like paved roads, decent schools/universities, street lights that work. And, the state plant, the traffic cone, for years at a time due to lack of funds, eventually wears any business down.
BTW blaming people who move to Nevada for wanting lower taxes and blaming people who move to Nevada for wanting higher taxes is well, just psycho. Decide which it is.
What don't you guys understand?
Nevadans face the second-lowest tax burden in the nation AND our unemployment is the highest in the nation.
We're living proof that the mantra of the GOP is WRONG. Lower taxes is not a cure-all. Chazbean, "businesses come here?" WHERE ARE THEY?
And to think... Sharron Angle wants to replicate Nevada's ills across the nation.
Chazbean: "I'd rather have low taxes and have business's come here than be in NEW YORK , or CALIFORNIA"
Unemployment rates for May, 2010:
Nevada - 14%
California - 12.4%
New York - 8.3%
http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm...
Businesses really don't move here, for a simple reason: business owners want to be able to hire qualified workers, and all our "educational" system produces is hospitality and retail workers. They also want to be able to raise their own children in an environment where they can become successful, and Nevada just isn't that place.
Which state was number one? Which was 51?
To gypc-dave Who is running the Casinos, law firms, Drs. , private businesses, high techs etc? High school drop outs. You can blame the High Unemployment on your pal Sleaze Harry! If u don't like it here go to California with high taxes,high prices for houses and a parking lot for transportation. I love Nevada!!
The spread will keep on agrowing between unemployment here and the rest of the country until we turn it all around with some investment in our kids, our community's future and some awareness of the need to enter the 21st century in our energy-consuming and water-consuming habits and habitats.
I read the comment about ensuring the ones benefiting from tax revenues are the one paying the taxes. In Nevada, pretty much everyone pays taxes, if a person makes purchases, they pay sales tax. If a person buys gas, they pay fuel taxes. Even a renter is paying property taxes through the rent they pay to the landlord.
Nevada's unemployment is high because of the high number of casino related employees and construction employees laid off. The Las Vegas area was in an unsustainable construction boom. The overheated house building and casino building was a bubble due to low interest rates and now it has burst!
If low taxes really attracted quality employers, then the Nevada economy still wouldn't be based on Service and construction industries.
harry's not the gov, chaz.
harry's a US Senator; the governors since the 90s are republicans in NV, land that you love. Stand bes...
Taxation is theft -- theft is wrong, while you'll never see an article or politician which will reveal the extent of this public wrong by listing ALL the taxes, fees, duties, tariffs, etc. currently being levied upon Americans by their local, state and federal governments.
With voluntary revenue raising alternatives available, no one should be victimized by an immoral antiquated system of wide-spread theft predicated upon the ruse that what's best for society results from forcibly taking its citizen's assets.
Right the wrong$ by criminalizing forcible confiscation through taxation while implementing revenue raising alternative which give citizens' the individual choices in what they believe is worthy of their funding.
: {
"Taxation is theft -- theft is wrong"
The Constitution is wrong?
To Gordon Look what your pal Obama has done in 18 months. It's all Bush's fault right! Get a life. Sleaze has been senator for 24 years who was the senator before sleaze? Get a life and job!
The article headline is grossly misleading. The study finds nothing of the sort. The data they present is on a family of 3 earning $75,000 - which is NOT the average family in Nevada (they actually note that it is a family of 4 with $62,000 in income) and does not include taxes paid by corporations or gaming. By looking at the individual taxes paid by an above average Nevada family and excluding other sources of taxes, the fact cited distorts reality.
Their next statistic shows tax burden as a percentage of income. Taxes Nevadans pay does not include corporate or gaming taxes and what is left that we do pay is taken as a percentage of our high incomes.
What the sun also does not report are positives like our below average poverty rate 10% compared to the national average of 13 percent. Nor does the Sun mention Nevada's personal income per capita is 18th highest in the nation.
Nor does the Sun mention that the even the liberal Brookings Institution (of which Brian Greenspun is even a board member) points out that Nevada is one of the better funded states in the union.
According to figures from the U.S. government Nevada's spending ranks anywhere from 26th to 47th. Just depends on how you calculate the number and what you include or exclude.
Finally, there is no $3 billion shortfall. This number is calculated by taking the budget passed in 2007 and adding inflation and other costs into it to raise the desired budget to between $8 and $9 billion. The $3 billion figure comes from subtracting this imaginary $8 or $9 billion budget that never existed by the amount of revenue's they estimate. Our current budget is about $6.6 billion right now.
Although you can argue with the specific statistics and number-crunching that goes into ranking a state in terms of taxes, there's NO question that Nevada is near the bottom of the tax list.
We pay no state income tax at all; only six other states have no income tax.
Our sales tax (6.85%) is above average (5.75% average for other states), but today's on-line world allows many to routinely avoid sales tax.
We are in the bottom third of states in terms of property tax rates.
Much of our spending has gone to growth and infrastructure enhancement over the past decade. Over time, those new buildings and roads require increased maintenance costs. The exploding population not only needs buildings to go to school in, but also qualified teachers and administrators to educate our kids and young adults.
I hate taxes as much as anyone else, but it's foolish to think that Nevada can continue to thrive (are we still thriving?) without Nevadans picking up more of their own tab when it comes to education, healthcare, public access maintenance, and other community services used by those who live here.
According to the latest USCB data the average family of 3 in Nevada makes $67,000 a year, still not $75,000 http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/da...
And since Corporations are clearly human beings and citizens (with all of the civil liberties that entails) it would be wrong to exclude corporations from any calculations about Nevadans and our taxes.
chazbean, will you please list the business that have come to low tax NV in the last 12 months? And while you are at it, do you have any idea how many people from NV have been hired by them? Thanks.
Newcomer, the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution (left-of-center think tanks) rank Nevada's tax collection as 22nd highest in the nation http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/...
Nevada collects a lot of sales taxes, room taxes, gaming taxes from tourist plus payroll taxes business license fees, insurance premium taxes, business property taxes and entertainment taxes on top of everything a normal family would pay.
Imagine your world... Close down government, drive out all of the spoiled unemployed, drive out all of the immigants. Now you sitting in your house, praying to your God that you don't get sick from your last visit to a local restaurant (no health dept. to monitor their food safety), that the water that you hauled up from the river to drink and bathe in doesn't make you sick (no municipal water company either), the power company keeps the electricity running at least 50% of the time and that you can afford what you get (no regulations), that lightening doesn't strike the field next door, or if it does, that you can afford to pay whoever puts out the fire (no municipal fire dept, but a a for-profit dept), that the Concertina wire around your house and the bars on your doors hold back the marauders roaming the neighborhood from stealing your food stash that you replenish outside of the state -- that is when you have enough gas to leave -- because few businesses want to operate here... and there you sit... in the dark... with your guns. Don't believe it? Look at any third-world country. There's your future.
nitro,
this is the part you left off:
"and some awareness of the need to enter the 21st century in our energy-consuming and water-consuming habits and habitats."
Ya see, the
"You do love your big goverment taking care of you airweare & co?"
statement clearly implies that education of the youth is taking care of me and my country. By investing in their development, our nation can reap benefits that apparently escape your view right now: literacy, skill development, communications, to name a few.
If you want to shout loud for ending education in this country because it's too expensive or interferes with your set of plans, go ahead and shout. Lotsa room in the desert.
Gordon,
First, it is highly misleading for anyone to use the "personal tax burden as a percentage of income" to claim that Nevada's government is underfunded. Plenty of people have done this which is why I always remind them of what such a tax burden statistic actually means.
Next, all taxes are taxes on individuals, just indirect ones. The MBT, for example is a tax on the total payroll of a company. Every dollar they pay every employee is thus taxed. This is a cost for the employer and it is a cost born by the employee. The employee pays the tax by either taking a lower wage, working fewer hours, or the employer hires fewer employees.
All business taxes, for example, are indirect taxes on individuals in one way or another.
Even sales taxes on tourists hit you the individual. Every dollar taken by the government through a sales tax is a dollar the tourist can't spend on an additional drink, another game, one more knickknacks. Thus there is less economic activity, fewer job opportunities, lower commissions, etc.
Gordon, I did explain why Nevada's tax burden is low. The tax burden statistic looks only at what locals pay as a percentage of their income. Since Nevada receives substantial revenue from business and tourists and since we have a higher than average per capita income our tax burden appears quite low. However, this doesn't mean Nevada's government is underfunded. It does not mean that Nevada's government ranks near the bottom in revenues. Quite the contrary, Nevada's government is well funded as the liberal think tank's link suggests.
Well put, Blueberry. All these anti-government, anti-tax people should move somewhere where they wouldn't be encumbered by taxes and regulation. Like Haiti. I hear they have lovely beaches.
"According to the latest USCB data the average family of 3 in Nevada makes $67,000 a year, still not $75,000"
Patrick, I'm not sure why you have a problem with the 3-person, $75,000 annual income comparison.
The Taxpayers Network used that as the baseline to compare state-to-state, they did not give any illusion that $75,000 is the average annual income for a family of three in Nevada or any other state.
The survey clearly compares what a family of 3 in Nevada making $75,000 a year would pay in taxes to that of other states.
Where did you get this false idea that they are portraying that figure as the average?
Come on Udde,
You're smellin snooty.
Bashin us whiners
Wit yer one-liners.
It is true that gaming and corporation taxes can be indirectly paid by the end consumers and employees but that is true in any of the states in the study. Also, in Nevada there may be a gaming tax and some other minor corporate taxes but other states have corporate income taxes, taxes on inventory, etc., etc. So again in relation to other states, Nevada has a low tax burden for both individuals and corporations. Nevada does not have a state income tax and the property taxes are low in comparison to other western states I have live in.
Glad to see the discussion, including from my NPRI friends. You're absolutely right that there are plenty of numbers to look at. I think Geoff and Carole both made that very relevant point.
I would also point out that the $3 billion figure comes from the Gibbons' budget office. It does not include "roll up" costs. It comes from the people who I believe know the budget best. I don't believe they approach it from an ideological point of view.
And @JayTT: Alaska had the lowest tax burden as percent of income. Wyoming comes after Nevada. New Jersey had the highest, New York came in second, then Connecticut, Mayland, Hawaii and California comes in #6 according to the Tax Foundation.
Just looking at this thing objectively (!) will tell you that the low-hanging fruit in the eyes of a governmental body around here would have to be the glaring absence of a state income tax. I hate to say it because there are only a handful of us states that treat ourselves this way. It's our state and we can have it our way, by Thomas Jefferson!
And if we're gonna make it other than last on the lists and give our kids a shot at the gold, their dreams and fulfillment of life, then we ought to grow a pair and set something aside in state income tax for good schools, not what we got now.
Corruption begets corruption. PRG is right about .001% of the time, but this one is for real - sticking more money in a bad system won't help much. My solution is too long for this rag, but suffice it to say that human autonomy will lift us up where Carnegie units let us down. Active, student-centered education will prevail, and standards will rot. message complete, no?
heads must be exploding over at npri...
hee hee hee...
swim gibbie swim...
faster son faster...
hee hee hee...
Journey You are a disciple of Fox News,Rush,Palin,right wing extremest talk radio and a liar.
Your statements regarding your supposed associates wait for surgery along with the other made up person in GB is laughable.Every official from both countries you mention would prove you wrong and an intentional liar for the statements you make.
You like all right wing zealots fail to understand social security and medicare are paid for by the people who work and pay into the system.There is no demand on others for a social security payment or medicare service paid for by the beneiciary themselves. None. It would be nice if Republicans quit using these funds as slush funds to cover up thier lies and mistakes. Eisenhower started this policy.
More importantly you need immediate mental health care. You fail to achieve objectivity with the truth and are insanely desfunctional.
You get what you pay for..... We pay for nothing, and we're at the lowest everywhere else too.. Shocking how that works, isn't it?
Lots of info here to ponder (along with many comments that are well-intentioned for the most part).
While I don't like paying tens of thousands in taxes, I prefer to pay higher taxes if that means local communities receive the basic services it requires to work efficiently.
My question to Republicans has always been (and no answer given)- For all the tax-friendliness of this state WHERE are all the jobs?
The question of taxation is much more complicated than Republican sound bites of no new taxes.
Meanwhile this state is at the bottom of the barrel in all important quality of life indicators. Which means it's time to move on (much to the delight of my Republican 'friends' here).
"My question to Republicans has always been (and no answer given)- For all the tax-friendliness of this state WHERE are all the jobs?"
How about this: The state is OVERPOPULATED. People who rushed here during the boom to do boom-driven work should logically be moving on.
And I'm not a Republican. Just a Nevadan.
The state has survived ups and downs many times before. It has ALWAYS been boom-or-bust here. If that doesn't suit you, I'd move on, because you are wasting your time trying to change it into something else.
RPJ:
"How about this: The state is OVERPOPULATED. People who rushed here during the boom to do boom-driven work should logically be moving on."
It's the only way we'll drop our unemployment rate - Greyhound Remedy! Interstate Relief. U-Haul updraft.
It'll be hell on RE.
So, NV has the second lowest tax burden in the country.
This demonstrates that the NPRI and the other Republicans trying to lie about the fiscal situation we are in (re: Sharon Angle believing that unemployment and social security are welfare) are full of it!
Hey, Patrick Gibbons, read the truth and stop creating your own!
LOL @ Nitro - only children's who's parents can afford to send their children to private schools get an education...
Why must Republiscum continually try to turn our country into a third-world disaster??
The problem with the Tax System in the United States is that almost half don't pay into it!
53% of Americans pay tax, 47% are reaping the benefits of those taxes. In Canada their system works because Everyone pays into the system. Not just those that earn more money. Taxes can be lower over all when everyone pays. The 47% sucking the system dry are the ones that blame the government for not providing them with more.
NV does NOT have the 2nd lowest tax burden in the nation. NV has the 2nd lowest LOCAL and STATE tax burden in the nation. The tax equation used by the Taxpayer's Network is incomplete in that it excludes FEDERAL taxes, which interact with state and local taxes. If a state pays more in state/local taxes, they pay less in fed taxes, and vice-versa. Another benefit of paying more local/state taxes (in addition to triggering less federal taxes), is the opportunity to collect matching grant funds from the feds.
Summarizing, NV does not have a low tax burden, chooses to export taxes to the feds instead of retaining more locally, and does not have a tax structure and associated state programs that allows the return of federal dollars it does export.
Edge, $75,000 for a family of 3 appears arbitrary. Nevertheless, it doesn't tell us anything about how much government is actually funded.
David, nice dig but not necessary. So how is Clinger calculating the shortfall? The first time they calculated the budget shortfall they did massive roll up costs. That $1 billion shortfall came from adding in $1 in budget increases to a $6.9 billion budget. Because of "budget cuts" to a $6.9 billion budget we then ended up with a $6.9 billion budget (because the shortfall was imaginary...as Geoff and I pointed out so long ago). "Further" cuts in 2010 reduced to about $6.6 billion.
Some estimates (not accurate at this time) suggest we may have between $5 billion and $5.5 billion in revenue in the next biennium. Add in your $3 billion shortfall and what number would you get from that? Answer, more than our current budget.
The way your newspaper has put the issue is like this: We have a 3 billion shortfall on a $6.6 billion budget. Thus you suggest we will only have $3.6 billion in revenue. I seriously doubt this will happen, though we will find it in the next few months.
Most recently you've used the figure which you claim you got from Clinger in which he adds up the budget cuts, cost of furloughs and tax cuts that are set to expire. Clinger could be using this figure because, often, bureaucrats are constrained in the sort of assumptions they can make and sometimes have to make unrealistic assumptions when they present the figures. Or, he could simply be making this guess because there is no official revenue figures yet. Geoff and I cover this issue here: http://www.writeonnevada.com/2010/04/sho...
Incidentally, Alaska also has the highest taxes collected per capita, despite having the personal tax burden. See how statistics can be manipulated?
CJjames, if I'm making up facts, why do I cite a liberal Brookings Institution that supports my claims? I even provided a link, check it out.
Nevada still has a low tax burden even with Federal taxes included. I guess OpenRange forgets NV residents get to take a tax deduction for state sales taxes. Yes, a taxpayer in a state with a state income tax does get to reduce their taxable income or take a deduction for state income taxes paid but it is not anywhere near the full amount paid in state income taxes. So the income tax state's taxpayers get to slightly reduce their federal income taxes but are still paying the full amount of state income taxes. Also, a number of states have sales tax and income taxes and some states even have city, county and states sales and income taxes.
What is wrong with having a very low tax burden. Most of the government employees have minimal productivity. Low taxes puts us in a position of comparative economic advantage. I am a tax expert and I can tell you that many companies are considering a relocation to Nevada from other high tax states. Look at the horrible problems of California or Illinois or New Jersey. Remember that high taxes does not guarantee a high quality education. It just guarantees government waste.
NVFisherman says:
Remember that high taxes does not guarantee a high quality education. It just guarantees government waste.
and he's right. If our top-heavy school system is so pathetic as it clearly is by all standards and lists, then let's not create a version 1.99; let's get all the way to 2.0.
In other words, start over. Be sure not to hurt anybody's feelings but kick those %@8&! to the curb and find stars, not scum so to speak. The whole economy ten-twenty years from now depends on these rascals. It's hard to get a good start when slippery slime coats the starting blocks.
Oh great, now an excuse for libs and dems to start talking about a state income tax. It'll be fun to hear the libs talk how we working Nevadan's have live the good life for so long, and now it is time to hit us further in the pocket books. Oh wait, that will just be those who don't work and want to live off of those who do even more.
Well, it's either an income tax or just a fixed fee for legal help. Lawyer gets half; state gets half.
Which is a better funding mechanism, Darth?
See, the state provides this perfectly normal looking moonscape with lax laws so all the lawyers swim around pretty fat. Essentially, the state provides the bait; you clean up. So pay de piper or go home!
Liberals can complain about "Nevadans not paying their fair share in taxes" and gripe over education and use that as a scapegoat for big corporations not coming here.
But our next door neighbor, California, has an excellent education system. The downside is the cost of living in CA is so God-damned expensive that I only relegated my time in California to just being a visitor.
The same can be said for New York, though I love it there too, the sad reality is if one makes $100,000 a year, that is barely surviving up there.
Oh, and I hear libs complaining about education in no-income-tax Florida as well, the script is pretty much the same as this board.
I think if education is a legit concern for someone, they should move to those high-tax states if it means that much to them and quit sticking it to those of us who no longer have a stake in public education.
It is funny on how the Sun clearly labels the "Conservative" groups but calls the liberal groups as non-partisan.
From the TaxPayer Network: "The Taxpayers Network is a non-profit social welfare organization"
Hmmm....I wonder from what side of the street they swing.
Nice Nitro and JDubs - more Republiscum attacks on education - If you live in this country you "have a stake in education".
Wow - Republiscum like you never fail to amaze me!
Jdubs, actually Nevada beats California on all but 1 exam (I believe) on the National Assessment of Educational Progress.
Furthermore, Florida smashes most every other state in K-12 education quality - despite the no personal income taxes (because, actually, income taxes have nothing to do with education quality). In fact, the average Hispanic student in Florida outscores the statewide average of all students in 31 other states.
Do you have a source for those (FL educational) claims? And you forgot to mention that FL education is supported (in part) by a state lottery.
Patrick, no dig meant. Just pointing out that I don't believe the administration has an axe to grind on this. But you bring up an interesting point about if there's something systemic in working within a system that leads you to see things a certain way.
This is how the budget office came up with the number, between $2.5 and $3 billion.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/apr...
The reason the budget hole is so big is because the Legislature, and to a lesser extent the governor, has used one-time funds to fill most of the budget gap. Think the federal stimulus, sweeping accounts, draining the Clean Water Coalition, the sun-setting taxes.
Now was this a brave way to balance the budget?
I'll point to this story I did after the latest special session
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/mar...
"But the state's cycles of predicted budget crises and their resolution -- usually through financial sleight of hand -- fuel a perception that no matter how lean a bureaucracy, when you squeeze government, money will appear from somewhere."
A 2.5 to 3.5 budget shortfall suggests we will have an estimated $3.4 to $4.4 billion in revenue for 2011-13 biennium. I'm willing to bet when the estimates come out it is $5 to $5.5 and even then that will be an underestimation as the biennium continues on. Thus the actual shortfall will be $1 to $1.5 billion - which can of course be made up by more fund sweeps and gimmicks and maybe a few budget cuts followed up by new policies that encourage the government to use resources more effectively.
I'm also willing to bet that Clinger will come back with a governor's budget of $8 to $9 billion (unless the Governor decides to go out on top and recommend a smarter and more realistic budget).
We'll find out which figures are correct soon enough.
This one guy, some of Florida's accomplishments are documented here: http://npri.org/publications/why-florida...
You can also check the figures yourself here: http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/
And why does a state lottery matter? The fact is, Florida still spends below average on K-12 education. Much evidence suggests there is little to no correlation between spending and student achievement. In fact, when you do find a correlation it is very weak and growing weaker all the time.
The last regression analysis I did on this subject, I found that the very, very weak and not statistically significant relationship that existed (a good chance it occurred by chance) between spending and reading achievement. Nevada would have to spend $20,000 per pupil (excluding capital costs and debt repayment) just to see student reading achievement reach the national average. Again, the relationship was so weak and not statistically significant.
We should know next week I'm told where we stand so far on the 2011 budget deficit.
We won't know the "real amount" until Dec. 2010, when the Economic Forum makes its forecast.
Mr. Gibbons,
Your Think Tank arguments would be more useful if they were foot noted.
Tax foundation.org has had Nevada number 2 next to Alaska for some time.
Sean Hannity contends that low taxes and Republicans result in jobs and prosperity. 12 years of Republican Governors 2ND lowest taxes and highest unemployment, foreclosure and bankruptcy. looks like Hannity and Beck have it wrong.
Pat would have you believe money is academic to education.
It's just more "think tank" nonsense.
This One Guy, I'll try to include more links.
Mred, you just made the error I've been warning people about. You can't look at personal tax burden as a percentage of income and conclude that because we rank low that Nevada must not collect a lot in taxes. In fact, the Tax Foundation ranks Nevada 25th in tax collection per capita (http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr163... p. 9. Brookings Institution ranks Nevada 22nd.
gmag, I'd explain to people that throwing money at a broken, uncompetitive, bureaucratic monopoly won't fix the education problem in Nevada.
Quote jenlv @ 4:28pm
"more Republiscum attacks on education - If you live in this country you 'have a stake in education'.
Wow - Republiscum like you never fail to amaze me!"
Since when is it the government's responsibility to invest in education? It wasn't the case before the Carter Administration, now look at the public school system. The kids who go to public school today are dumber than when they first started, despite the so-called public investment. Could anyone else explain why the R&D sector is mostly foreign nationals? And on the same token, corporations are taking jobs overseas?
Even my eighth grade science teacher admitted to me several years later after I graduated college that being a teacher is nothing more than babysitting for nine months with a three month vacation and it is one the best jobs one can have. I'd take his word for it since hes been one for 35 years.
And notice that I didn't use derogatory adjectives to describe those who don't listen to talk radio, watch Fox News, or grew up in a structured household. I just call them liberals and marxists.
G'day mate.
hey J,
we do not lose our stake in K-12 ed when our kids get big and hopefully leave town for a life somewhere.
The residual value of the education is in the culture, the art and the benefits of having less stupidity to deal with on the SUN pages!
Not to mention as you suggest and many agree that the economy seems to benefit from a little diversity; another casino added to seventy eight now struggling might do better as a museum or cheeseburger joint, solar water heater demo or massage parlor.
Perhaps school teaching in Nevada is unlike school teaching in New York. When your notion of 'adult jobs' stretches from hooker or cashier to engineer or lawyer or physician, then your appreciation of learning and self-motivation may also stray a bit from the Vegas norm.
Folks, as one writer pointed out, we ARE becoming a 3rd-world country. A few very wealthy people in the USA, and the rest of the former middle class have now become a lower-class as the very weathly got even wealthier by moving the USA MANUFACTURING overseas - hench making the USA a 1st world country into a 2nd world country! We can't even make our own armor anymore.
Here in Ohio, we have a well-educated, college-educated, smart working base of people who did some decent manufacturing for many years - almost every sheet of window glass and 50% of all automotive glass was made in NW Ohio, along with truck transmissions, (Toledo) Scales, and 80% of all spark plugs.
All these manufacturing jobs have been moved away, and now the only manufacturing left here is some Solar Panels, significant Solar Panel R&D still here (BUT manufacturing of panels is moving to Malaysia!) AND we still make the JEEPs here in Toledo. The other 50,000 manufacturing jobs are gone, 20% are on public assistance, 14% are on unemployment, and the 86% that are working have been forced to reduce our pay or hours to a 32 hour paid work week. One of 3 homes are 'underwater' on their loans and ready to forclose as people lose their manufacturing jobs to overseas workers and we become a 3rd world country.
And yes, we pay City, State, and Federal Income Taxes, a County and State Sales Tax, and an oppressive County/State property tax, so don't whine about your taxes. We have huge property taxes to pay for our nice school systems here, and we have many brand new schools here, but they aren't going to be full for long, as people are leaving Ohio and moving to Nevada - so you guys are screwed having to build new schools while our new schools get smaller and smaller class sizes! For 30 years (until 2 years ago) we had all GOP senate and state, and we're still no better off with Dems the last 2 years either.
The USA has to get out of the 3rd World Mentality of moving jobs out of our country so we can buy junk at WalMart cheaply.
Face it - Ross Perot was correct - NAFTA was wrong, a North American Union will turn us into a 3rd world country overnight, as will free trade with China. We need to tax all imports to give the incentive to BUILD in the USA again, rather than to export our jobs and import inferior quality products that we can't build ourselves if we were ever involved in a war with that country!
Peace to all, and have a happy 4th of July!
You know what JDubs, you're right - we don't need kids to be educated. Why would we? You would never use the services of any professional younger than you right?
You must've had a really bad science teacher. Certainly we can have Dr's for you go to go without science teachers right??? Of course you can - if you reside in Somalia.
Airweare, I would hate for my children to feel like the couldn't succeed without leaving our city. I usually agree with you, but I can't on this one.
This is utter horse puckey. Yeah, "Nevada has no state tax". True. But it costs $250 to register a $25 license plate at the DMV. They get you one way or another.
Sweden according to most studies, even ones by their own government, has one of the hightest tax rates in the world.
People like uddeboda have to live in small houses that they will never actually own.
He does not have a car, too.
I guess we Americans can live like that too.
I think I pass.
Yes, Nevada is a breath of fresh air, compared with the rampant institutionalized state employee rip-offs of the public purse which take place in California...let alone the rampant corruption of local elected officials throughout California in "pay for play" schemes involving commercial and residential real estate developers...schemes commonly seen in New York and Illinois too.
The key question, however, is the name of the one state which is "better" than Nevada, from the perspective of Taxpayer Network, the anti-tax activists who compiled the statistics from which David McGrath Schwartz's story is written.
Though the restaurants, entertainment and weather might be great in Las Vegas, this mysterious "better state" may have some appeal to Las Vegans. Why the secrecy about "Who is #1?" While it's nice that Nevada is the Avis of states, it would be nice to know the name of the state which is the "Hertz" of taxpayers rights.
But Sarge, look at the Babes
in those
small
houses. See, there's forethought going on over there besides fishing, baking and making cheese.
"Vit a view of HER from evry seengle vroom in de house, why vould a man want to leave?" from Swedish guys slowly morphed into Frank Lloyd Wright's 'Bring the outside in with flowers and windows; take the inside out with porches and decks.'
And the rest Rocky is history. Thank a Swede for interior design beased on love of the inspirational, morphing beauty of Swedish women in small houses and soft light.
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW AND WHY SHARON ANGLE IS EVEN CONSIDERED FOR SENATE?? EVEN THE NIGHT TIME TALK HOSTS THINK SHE'S A MENTAL CASE. SHE CANT ANSWER QUESTIONS, SHE WANTS TO REMOVE SOCIAL SECURITY, SHE HAS CALLED THE UNEMPLOYED LAZY, SHE BLAMES ALL BAD ISSUES CONCERNING NEVADA ON OTHERS AND DOES THIS WHILE SMILING., IS SHE ON MEDS OR DRUGS. THANKS SHARON, I WOULD RATHER VOTE FOR HARRY REID W/ HIS IGNORANCE OF NEVADA THEN HAVE YOU IN OFFICE. I DONT KNOW ANYONE THAT CAN UNDERSTAND HER!!!!SHES A JOKE!!!!
Forget the lowest this or that State Tax.We're talking about how we're being Taxed to hell by the Federal Govt. The middle class is paying for the new Tax on Banks because the Banks just raise their fees and we get screwed. New tax on oil? well the oil company's pass it on to the middle class on and on..... Whatever we do the Feds have us by the ----s. Harry Reid is DIRECTLY responsible for this!. This man only knows how to raise our Taxes and spend it! A far left Socialist who's taking our family's apart step by step! What more is there? We have to live in his footsteps. Nevada is in a fiscal stupor and we know what we have to do to exit from this nightmare.I'm looking forward to it!