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By Dave Toplikar (contact) 
Published Wednesday, April 7, 2010 | 12:31 p.m.
Updated Wednesday, April 7, 2010 | 3:48 p.m.
Sun Coverage
- Goodman ‘hopeful’ Las Vegas city employees won’t lose jobs (4-1-2010)
- Union leader hopeful about reaching agreement with city on salary cuts (3-26-2010)
- City employee union offers to take furloughs, pay cut (3-23-2010)
- Goodman cites ‘gridlock’ in union negotiations (3-18-2010)
- Goodman backs off proposal to fire, rehire city employees (3-15-2010)
- Mayor ‘serious’ about firing/rehiring city employees (3-11-2010)
- Council advances budget that would leave 146 jobless (3-10-2010)
- Las Vegas mayor: Salary cuts needed to save 171 city jobs (3-4-2010)
- Goodman: City could save 171 jobs if unions agree to pay cut (2-25-2010)
- Las Vegas Mayor: No agreement yet on city employee contracts (1-28-2010)
- Las Vegas mayor calls on city employee unions to reopen contracts (1-7-2010)
- Las Vegas City Council OKs 8 percent salary, benefits cut (1-6-2010)
The city of Las Vegas might have to start considering hiring private contractors to replace more highly paid city employees in the future, says Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman.
"We look to privatization to replace city employees who are functioning, but at a salary level that is higher than perhaps the private sector would provide to us," Goodman said at this morning's Las Vegas City Council meeting. "But we don't have any choice but to look at that as an alternative. It's not a threat. It's just a fact."
Goodman made those remarks after hearing a presentation from city staff about the status of talks with the four unions that represent the 3,300 employees concerning pay cuts that would help the city trim its budget for the 2010 fiscal year.
The city staff had just given a report detailing how far away the city's four employee unions are to meeting the city's request in concessions, which would save 141 employees' jobs.
The city's goal — which includes no cost-of-living increase for all employees, plus an 8 percent salary cut — is to trim $29.7 million from the budget.
However, the unions' offers have amounted to only a $10 million cut, leaving a $19.7 million difference, according to City Manager Betsy Fretwell and Mark Vincent, the city's chief financial officer.
After the presentation, Mayor Oscar Goodman urged the city's negotiators and the unions to keep working toward closing that gap.
Goodman said the alternatives to employee groups not accepting an 8 percent cut are to reduce city services and eliminate the jobs of 141 employees.
The council has approved a tentative budget that includes the job reductions after employees did not agree to the city's request of an 8 percent cut this year and next year. A final budget will need to be made by May 18 and then submitted to the state on June 1.
"The window is closing quickly," Goodman said.
"The 8 percent is the number. I've been asked in press conferences, 'Is that in cement?' Nothing's in cement. But we have to get the 8 percent in order to make this into livable conditions, without losing the patient," Goodman said.
Summary of offers
The summary of talks provided by the city staff, showed the following:
-- Las Vegas City Employee Association: The city is asking it to reduce compensation by $16.7 million. The LVCEA's offer, which includes 196 hours of furlough and giving up cost of living, amounts to $8.7 million. The difference is $8 million. A LVCEA representative disputed how the city arrived at the figure for the union's offer, saying the union is actually offering $10.2 million in concessions, or about two-thirds of what the city wants. He said the union would like the $10.2 million to be used to retain the jobs of most of the 121 union member who would be laid off under the city's tentative budget. He estimated that could be about 100 people.
-- International Association of Fire Fighters: The city wants it to cut $8.8 million in personnel costs. The IAFF, which is in contract negotiations, has offered $900,000. The difference is $7.9 million.
-- Las Vegas Police Officers Association, which represents corrections officers: The city's goal is for it to cut $3.1 million. The LVPOA's offer would not save any money, so the difference is $3.1 million.
-- Las Vegas Police Protection Association, which represents city marshals: The city's goal is to cut $1.1 million. The LVPPA's offer amounts to $400,000. The difference is $700,000. Chris Collins, president of the LVPPA, said no one from the city has contacted him about the union's offer in the last six weeks. He said the union is not ready to give that much back. Many of the employees recently bought homes and are underwater in those homes and can't afford to take those kinds of cuts, he said.
Fretwell said the city has not rejected any of the offers, but was still at the table, working through the process.
Deeper hole than expected
Fretwell told the council that the city would have to dig deeper into its reserves than was planned when the council approved the tentative budget on March 10.
At that time, the $493 million budget included taking $38 million from reserves. However, the new estimate will be that it will need to dip into reserves by $53 million, taking the rainy day fund down to 10 percent, Fretwell said. The 10 percent level would give the city about five weeks of cash flow in case of an emergency.
"I don't think any of us recognized how bad things were going to get," she said.
Vincent said once of the reasons for the lower revenues is that, because of the economy, more people are cutting back on their own energy use, which means the city is taking in less funds from its franchise fees included in utility bills.
About 10 years ago, the council adopted a policy to keep 12 percent of its budget in the reserve fund. Because of the economic downturn, that's now down to 10 percent and will be at the 10 percent level for the 2011 fiscal year, Fretwell said. She said 8.125 percent of the reserves are not subject to collective bargaining.
Fretwell said going any lower than 10 percent could mean the city would lose its bond rating, which would make the costs of public projects go higher.
Vincent said keeping the reserves at 10 percent would give the city more breathing room to plan for emergencies intelligently.
COLA confusion
Councilman Steve Wolfson said some people don't understand how cost of living allowances, or COLAs, work and asked how many years employees have been getting them and whether the COLA always increase each year.
Fretwell said employees have been getting them for at least 15 years. Vincent said the average Western States Consumer Price Index has gone up on average those years just under 2.8 percent. He said it would be flatter than normal for this year, but will see an uptick in the 2012 fiscal year.
Fretwell said employee COLA increases, which are negotiated by the unions, have been exceeding the Western States CPI, plus employees have also received step increases in compensation for longevity.
Mayor Pro Tem Gary Reese pointed out that over a long period of time, "that's a huge difference," in what employees make compared to the CPI increases.
Councilwoman Lois Tarkanian said the general public thought COLAs go up or down based on the CPI. Fretwell said COLAs are fixed by the terms of the negotiated contracts.
The City of Las Vegas has been paying their employees the salary they are receiving for how long now? It is not their fault the city hired them at a high pay rate and continued to pay them this salary for the past decades. Now that the economy is bad, the Mayor just wants to get rid of them? Lets see if the Mayor will get the same quailty of work out of a private contractor...doubt it. They have been receiving this salary since the Mayor became Mayor and I never heard him complain before. Now he needs to suck it up and make cuts else where. Why don't we fire the Mayor and hire a privte contractor to run his office. Does that even make sense?
here is an idea build some artwork like they did in henderson that will save you money..
lol
hades has frozen over.
a democrat actually said something that makes sense.
Spring season, clean up time
Privatization is a great idea. Grow private sector jobs, shrink government jobs. Those currently working for the government, if they are good, should be able to get a job in the private sector as they would need to hire to account for increased job loads when they take on government contracts. The key is to negotiate reasonable contracts. Can we apply this to county and state...maybe even fed. levels?
Good luck with that, Oscar!
He thinks he's still with the mob...
"I'm threatening you, can't you see that???"
Wooooh, SCAREEEE!
This is a great idea. Reducing the number of fat cats feeding at the public trough is always good. What would be even better, but is still rarely discussed, is merging the city and the county.
I agree fully with hcinnv's comments above.
We all know that the unions aren't going to cave in and allow the concession of an 8% cut to salaries. That would be the right thing to do. They are backed up against a wall and will play hard ball and act like they are negotiating for the benefit of their members. That's what the members pay them for. If they just rolled over and gave into the demands of the Mayor what would be the use of the union?
I wish Goodman would stop placating, it's a lose lose situation, put it in black and white: "141 of you will be laid off tomorrow or all of you can afford me the 8% salary concession". It's that simple, no negotiations are necessary. The union can't seem to understand how to help in balancing a budget so give them an ultimatum. After all, the person who controls the gold makes the rules.
Furthermore, he should have just fired 141 people a long time ago and been done with it, that's what a private company would have done, has done, and will continue to do. It hurts for a little, but it must be done to stop the bleeding. If he had done this a long time ago people could have gotten on with their lives and moved on instead they are stuck in limbo waiting for the axe to fall.
The Fire Department must be first. The most overpaid and under worked bunch on the list.
The mayor could hire Blackwater (Xe) operatives to replace the City Marshals who are his personal drivers.
That worked out so well in Iraq.
Of course, maybe the mayor could just drive himself and save the city money.
Will the privateers that WIN [wink wink nudge nudge] the contracts be required to hire legal citizens or will they be able to conduct Las Vegas business as usual?
Hcinnv, thekube, neiman1.
I agree with your comments above.
Really, we need these cuts. After all the best thing about budget shortfalls is that it helps know what services and funding is necessary or not.
Not only that.. BUT IT CAN SAVE THOUSANDS OF TAXPAYER FUNDS AND OF COURSE SAVE PRIVATE JOBS!!
At least Goodman is thinking.
Hummmmm. This reminds me of something. Manufacturers ran to Mexico for cheap labor. Why pay American's expensive labor and benefits? Let's see? When I call someone regarding my credit card, I'm talking to someone from India. I guess American's demand too much pay and benefits there, too. Well, here's a perfect opportunity for the private sector to be cost effective and take jobs away from Amercian's. Oh,ya and those unionized governement jobs... we can hand those over to another country too. It will be cheaper.
Privatizing costs more in the long run. Rather than showing up as an amount paid for staff, it comes in higher amount but does not show up as directly a staffing related expense.
Privatizing is a shell game and the gin meister knows it.
Privatize the Fire Fighters!!!!!!!
Save a fortune from those parasites.
You pander and cave into the unions and now you find they don't won't to work with you to help solve the huge fiscal problems the city is facing. Unions have bought and paid for Democrats across the nation, now they want their pay-back buddy; this is how it works. That's why smart politicians DON'T take their dirty money. Thanks for screwing our city. Now somebody else will have to fix your mess.
In 2006 Rural/Metro pulled out of Scottsdale,AZ not because the citizens wanted them out but because they could not make a profit. They are the fire protection for other cities/airports across the country and are headquatered in Scottsdale. The city spent millions starting up a public department, even though they owned the rigs and stations. Even though the public wanted them to stay they pulled out because they could not make money. Is that what many of you want, a for profit fire department?
I think privatizing the fire departments is a good idea. I know the private sector can do just as good or better for way less money. That same holds true for just about everyother government job. Also someone mentioned a merger between city and county and that is another great idea to stream line things.
U get what U pay 4.
Nick...and others on the "bash unions" bandwagon, do you truly believe its the wages of these people that rack up deficits in the millions of dollars? Let me throw out non-union names like Worldcom, Bear Stearns, Enron, etc...all non-unions companies yet they those employees are in no better place...and in some cases are worse-off than if unions were there! Get away from the idiot tube and look deeper than the 5-minute snipets you hear these political "graverobbers" try to do spin to convince the ignorant, the uninformed, the uneducated that the budget problems are at the feet of the working man. Quit being a "flunkie" for the lyin'-ass pseudo-intellects! The fact is that most that are whining about unions & ffs, are the same individuals that benefits from union wage and benefit setting in the private sector companies. Oh, that's right...you folks are the same idiots that think your private companies pay you the wages you get because of their education & appreciation of your work (Haha). Remember, you better recognize what side of the bull whip you're really on coz if unions dissapear, you may find yourself wishing and begging they hadn't.
If privatizing costs more in the long run we should have seen the US collapse, not the Soviet Union.
Gmag, you get what you pay for doesn't apply with an service or good provided by an unaccountable and uncompetitive monopoly -- which government is. In this case, you get what you get, regardless of how much you are forced to pay.
i hope i can get one of those $ 200,000 dollar a
year fireman's jobs before they privatize...
donuts, big screen t.v.'s, new york steaks,
2 ton personal trucks and best health care the
taxpayers can offer.
Rural/Metro charges $1.85 per $100 of assessed valuation for a subscription, just below the $1.90 that GVFD levies. For the owner of a $200,000 home, the difference would be $10 per year. GVFD is Green Valley FD out of AZ. Do the math and see what current house is worth in this econ and see if cheaper than your prop taxes that cover all the gov services.
I am going to privatize you, but that is not a threat.
Did some of you nuts jobs not notice that the council with the mayor in charge borrowed $15,000,000.00 from the sewer fund to place in captial projects.
$11,500,000.00 going towards the mob museum
Give me a martini
One year and half into the recession, Oscar Goodman just get up this morning and in the front of his coffee and donuts scratching his head trying to figure out what could i say today that number one my Mayor seat will be safe and number two it look like with are working on it.
Pay the exact same wages and benefits that the private sector gets. I work my behind off for every benefit I get and sure as hell don't make nearly what these lazy-ass government workers do. Lord, call any agency run by the state, county, etc. and they are almost incoherent and stupid. Don't expect help. Wait, I need a smoke. Sorry there are 10,000 in line, it's my break time. That's it for county workers, break time and big checks and benefits for little work. No, wages and benefits - same as private sector for all county, state any governmental bodies. As for the unions - totally useless idiots making a good wage at the expense of the union members paying their dues. Crooks every single one of them. Hello Hoffa - you back again.
All for the idea ofthe private setor taking the jobs are NOT Government employed. All the ones BITCHING are Governement workers soon to be out of a job.
Pigs at the public trough: MOVE ALONG -- NOW!
Privatize jobs - a euphemism for changing the job to poor pay, no benefits, and lots of profits to the chummy buddy who gets the contract.
Try to privatize these jobs requiring the same pay, same benefits, same job security and no business would take them because they could not screw the workers.
Public Safety possibilities:
Privatize corrections, leaving a minimal staff of peace officers on each shift to supervise.
Eliminate the Marshall's Office and pass whatever it is they do to Metro.
Privatize processing summons and subpoenas in non-criminal cases.
Freeze new-hires for Metro; prioritize Metros staff and duties towards public safety and proactive law enforcement by assigning more officers to patrol.
Change the law to allow citizens to merely exchange driver's license and insurance information in non-injury accidents, as long as both vehicles are drivable and no third party property damage has occurred. This will free up hundreds of hours of valuable patrol time to compensate for hiring freeze.
After Public Safety, certain administrative positions could easily be handled by outsourcing.
To further save taxpayer dollars, low wage foreign workers will be given preference for ALL outsourced government jobs. As a last resort, American born workers may be considered for unfilled critical jobs as long as they are bi-lingual.
This goes out to Nick especially,
This has been brought up before so I know you have read this at least once or twice.
Last year your dear private ambulance service (AMR) threatened to strike. FD scrambled to be able to pick up the slack. It turned out to be a threat only, but if you privatized just EMS and the privates decided they didn't like what Nick was paying them what would you do then? The FD would not have the resources to take over due to the fact a third of the dept. was gone. Nick.........are you thinking, I thought you had all the answers........I'm waiting.
Be careful what you ask for...
Get rid of all those union monkeys in the FD.
As a city employee, the statements Oscar and Betsy said today are total contradictions to what they have been telling us.
In the beginning the 8% was to be from salary only, then it was 8% from total wages, (COLA, step raises, longevity, etc.).
Recently, we were told that the city was going to make it under our goal.
Hmmm...... interesting.
Looks like the FD and police are the ones not making any real concessions. Let's do something novel, do not allow any overtime at all for fire"men" and have the police only respond to real crime, stop all focus on any of the petty crimes wasting time (possession of pot, avoid the hookers--those who use them get what they deserve, etc.).
There would be a linje 5 miles long for fire fighting jobs at 1/2 the pay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wake up fire fighters are scum eating this city alive. Those parasites will bankcrupt you while working 10 days a month.
Go ahead and fire all the fireman and outsource those positions to India, China and Mexico. Just like all the other jobs we have given away. Then you can complain you get what you pay for and where did all the jobs go.
I can picture it now, Joe Schmow is standing next to you in a firefighters outfit and says in a robotic tone "Hello, how are you today? How may I help you? Oh, your house is burning down? Oh, I can't go in there. It's burning."
Go rent the movie Gangs of New York and you will understand what happens if you privatize the FD.
lawgal4u...
You say you work your behind off for what you get huh! Don't you think the firefighters think/feel the same?
Btw, the work that you and your "honest colleagues" do...is it worthy of the $200-400 an hour you rape a working man/woman of just to speak with ya....Hmmmm. Isn't most of the politicians running this country from your profession??
A crook in government is no different than a privatized crook. Ask the Mayor he knows.
people choose to pay a lawyer crazy fees...tax payers did not choose to pay 100k in OT fees while we cut 1000 teachers???
Teachers are going to be our kids future...not fireman. The teachers are the true heros that are 1000x more likely to save a young child then a fireman!
akrowdybuck
the teachers are covered by the state budget not the city or county. It doesnt matter how much ot they get it does not affect the teachers. I know my wife is a teacher.
Look...... privatizing is great..... BUT NOT FOR FIREFIGHTERS...... We need the public sector to provide us safety and protection when needed...
WHY IN THE WORLD PRIVATIZE THE EDUCATION SYSTEM!!! That is better!!
Yes sell all those dysfunctional and monopolistic schools....TO PRIVATE COMPANIES....
THAT MEANS TURN THE CCSD INTO A PRIVATIZED FUNCTION!!!
Families can pay the price $$$ on their children for what service they need, when they need it!!
Not only that
PRIVATIZE POST SECONDARY EDUCATION!!! THAT INCLUDES UNLV...
Make people more in charge with their education......WITHOUT WASTEFUL RULES ON STANDARDS, WHAT THEY HAVE TO WORK ON, AND MAKE IT INCONVENIENT FOR THEM TO PAY HIGH TUITION RATES....
Not only that.... PRIVATIZING THE FREEWAYS CAN BE WONDERFUL SOLUTION TOO!!!
Privatize the I-15, I-215, and I-515.... SELL IT TO A PRIVATE COMPANY... for competition and traffic speeding innovation!!
MORE PRIVATIZATION MEANS LOWER TAXES!!! LONG LIVE THE FREE MARKETS!!
For the slow learners out there........overtime for firefighters is often MANDATORY. FF are forced to stay and work 48-72 hour shifts to meet staffing requirements. This is because the city does not want to hire enough employees to fill all positions and it is cheaper to pay overtime than hire more employees. This was the idea of the city council, mayor, etc. Seems people here just don't want to see anyone make more money than them even if they are working 100 hours a week to get it. If you want lower salaries, hire more workers and overtime goes away. Topped out pay for a FF is 77K with an hourly wage lower than a garbage collector.
And Nick, your theory is completely wrong. The last firefighter recruitment produced only a handful of people that could make it through the civil service process. Less than 1500 applied. And that is at today's current pay and in the middle of a recession. So no, there will not be a line 5 miles long at half the pay......because you still have to be able to pass the test.
Yes, lets privatize the fire service.......that way we can pay taxes for fire protection and then get a nice big bill from the private company if they come to your house. No insurance, no help. Don't forget that AMR and MedicWest are owned by the same company. Nice little monopoly that will raise prices and strike. Just like NV Energy, just keep raising rates as there is no other option.
akrowdybuck...
You're correct in saying people choose to pay crazy lawyer fees. If people didn't pay what alternative do they have to get legal rep? Also...the city council along with the mayor, city attorneys, city managers agreed to the contracts during a negotiation process. Unions don't hold guns to their heads! How come people posting anti- FFs/anti-union stuff aren't upset with these over paid, managerial idiots who put the tax payers on the hook when THEY agreed to the terms of the contract? What the heck are all those budget and financial analysts or comptrollers on the payroll for??
Btw, I ain't union, FF, or politician.
whether or not you think Goodman is a drunk, did you see what these unions are willing to NOT give up? and their excuse is these guys bought homes and have bills. well, this makes them unique how? So do all the state employees that just got 11% cuts, with husband and wife both working for the state, 22% of your income is a huge chunk, so cough up the cuts, privitize, lay them off whatever, get the job done and lets get this states budget balanced. If these guys won't concede now, what the heck are we going to do when we have to start paying for this stupid healthcare plan and a 3 billion deficit this next regular session? and don't tell us raise taxes. we already had taxes raised they were called fees, we are going to have them raised again with higher ins premiums more SS and 23-25% already in fed taxes removed. Will you guys not be happy until you have 40-50% of peoples checks in taxes, while these high paid people continue to get bloated paychecks, refusing to contribute. What a selfish lot.Get these democrats out of office before we are all broke.
You peole don't even know what taxes are. No state income tax, no tax on food in stores, sales tax yes but you can control that. Now try Utah that fine republician one party state. Number 11 overall in nation for taxes and that is not counting federal taxes. Tax on food in stores, 7% income tax, property tax same as Nevada,7% sales tax on everything. Basicly all Nevada pays is sales tax and property tax period (not counting business tax). O DMV fees. try Utah they just raised it again. As for private service this state tryed private prisons guards, look where that got Nevada. I can just see it now for fire and police. Hello 911 what is your emergency, sorry we have cut help to reduce our overhead we need more profit, we will get to as soon as we can round up enough workers, at 10.00 hour, the fightfighter and police tell you I am not going to get hurt for a freaking 10.00 hour I can get that busing tables. O well no service. Got what you wanted NO SERVICE
Boys and girls,
I am a fireman, and if I were you I'd be pissed off too. The difference is I would know who is responsible and why, then I would be pissed off at them.
The last couple of weeks I have been responding to some of the most obviously ignorant people I have ever heard. I have done this after being called a pig, monkey, loser and many other degrading things. I have done this in a professional and respectful manner. Akrowdybuck, you are witness to this.
You know people, a person can only take so much.
Some of you are so close minded and are miserable with your own lives, it kills you to see anyone who is not hateful and miserable as well.
Those of us who know try and explain things to you and it goes in one ear and out the other. You don't want to hear that you are WRONG AGAIN in your life.
It has been explained over and over about OT, sick leave, salaries (OT), MDA, our union concessions. My children listen better. I know for certain you all cannot be idiots.
The unions, my god! First you people tell us how stupid we are and monkeys can do our job, then when it comes to our unions we are sly, slick negotiators that fool your poor inadequate politicians. Are you friggin kidding me.
I can promise you all without one second of hesitation, we want this mess over just as badly as you do, we are open to concessions and have been from the beginning.
We don't want pity, "poor fireman being picked on", just stop and listen for 5 minutes with an open mind.
For the sad few that their only post is "fire them all", I'm sure we will be seeing you. Karma is a bitch.
Oh, by the way......thanks to the closed minded for making me stoop to your level.
Croc1 should change his name to crook1
Fire fighters have robbed us big. No morals, just money grabbing lazy thieves!
Lipton,
Please, please show me where someone said that our salaries our because we bought homes and have bills. Not just FF's, but any union member.
You can't, I know you can't.
You know, the only thing worse than a s^%t disturber is a lying s&^%t disturber.
My friend nick,
I should have saved my fingers on the keyboard and just said to everyone, "don't be a Nick". Thanks pal.
Have the union members pay their dues directly, stop deducting them from the pay checks. See how fast the union will reconsider their position on wage concessions.
@ Cyrus992
You'll love this. It talks about privatizing freeways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZ...
quill,
Once AGAIN, we already came to the table weeks ago that would by itself save 70+ jobs. FF's union could have could have saved over 70 jobs, Your Mayor and City Manager would not even consider it.
Please print this out so I don't have to say it again.
Thank you.
Abolish the Fire and police Dept, issue every household with shotguns, fire and garden hoses, and organize volunteer community security and fire brigade. Let the community police their own neighborhoods and give them allowances from what we save from the Fire and Police budgets. There are so many unemployed homeowners these days that we should easily get volunteers to help their community out. Heck, I haven't seen a firetruck go through my neighborhood yet and saw police car maybe a couple of times.
While everyone is focused on the City and County firefighter's stealing our tax dollar no one is watching the ridiculous spending of the County Marshall's. These same folks who are trying to organize a Union to get better pay and benefits. On Mar 16, they went before the County asking to be recognized as real county employee's. Talk about no accountablity. For years the Judges have allowed their staff to falsify attendence records. The Judge goes home. So did the Bailiff. With pay of course. Someone who is not intimidated by the Judicialsystem needs to research what really goes on there. $100,000. for incompetence.
More problems there then with firefighters or drunken Mayor's.
Money_Is_Debt:
Give me a shorter film about freeway privatization... Thank you....
THERE YOU ALL HAVE IT!!
PUBLIC SERVICES ARE CORRUPT, DYSFUNCTIONAL, AND FAIL TO PROVIDE CONVENIENCE!!!
YOU ALL NOW WANT PRIVATIZED SERVICES!!
So if you can... at least PRIVATIZE ALL THE FREEWAYS AND EDUCATION SERVICES!!!
Look at how efficient the service you recieve at the strip compared to the mess you get from CCSD!!
FREE MARKETS AND CAPITALISM IS COMING!!!
My Dream is coming true for the Las Vegas Valley!! Oh Yeah!!
Croc
"Lipton,
Please, please show me where someone said that our salaries our because we bought homes and have bills. Not just FF's, but any union member.
You can't, I know you can't"
I actually read this on one of the articles about north las vegas making cuts. Not sure which newspaper but some union rep did actually state this!
-- Las Vegas Police Protection Association, which represents city marshals: The city's goal is to cut $1.1 million. The LVPPA's offer amounts to $400,000. The difference is $700,000. Chris Collins, president of the LVPPA, said no one from the city has contacted him about the union's offer in the last six weeks. He said the union is not ready to give that much back. Many of the employees recently bought homes and are underwater in those homes and can't afford to take those kinds of cuts, he said
i think what we have going on here is that ff may be understaffed so the city can say we are setting a "balanced budget"...low and behold they have to pay OT and now they have exceeded the budget. The city probably has more eyes watching their initial budget then their actual cost, so it is much easier to "budget" less by not hiring the correct number of employees.
On the other hand I still disagree with anybody getting overtime until the time spent working out, sleeping, playing cards, video games, charity work etc. is backed out. Only when you actually "WORK" more then 40 hours a week would I be able to emphasize with your "plight"!
akrowdybuck,
This sounds like a direct quote from Mr. Collins, I stand corrected. Lipton, my apologies. I am speechless, for this guy to make a statement like that on an issue as delicate and emotional as this. What a moron.
akrowdybuck, let me ask you something. If a company has a training session and an employee goes to this session they will get paid. When Metro goes to the shooting range, they get paid. When a bodybuilder goes to the gym his sponsors are paying him to go because that is part of his job.
We have training sessions where we practice fire related activities or EMS skills. We get paid for it because it is done on duty. We go work out at the gym or at the station because it is part of our job, just like any other training session. When you see a ladder truck at an empty warehouse building with the big ladder raised and FF's climbing up and down do you say, "I'm glad there practicing that so when they need to do it for real they're ready, or would you say, "what a waste of fuel and taxpayers time, those guys should be doing real work."
As far as sleeping goes, everyone knows we work 24 hour shifts. lets take an exterminator for example. When you have a termite issue you call your bug man and he states he will be out as promptly as he can, may be an hour or more.
FF's are not paid to respond, we are paid to be ready to respond. Regardless of what we are doing, eating, sleeping, working out at the gym/station, buying food for that days meals whatever, when you call 911 we go now, not in an hour or when we can fit you in.
As I said before my friend, I'm not trying to talk you into something you don't believe. I don't think I'm smart enough to do that anyway, I'm not a politician. Just a different viewpoint is all.
But thank you again for setting me straight on the "house" issue.
"Let me throw out non-union names like Worldcom, Bear Stearns, Enron, etc...all non-unions companies yet they those employees are in no better place...and in some cases are worse-off than if unions were there!"
This is by far the most idiotic statement i have ever read here. I guess if all of the employees at Enron etc were union, these companies would still be up and running. I guess union members never commit fraud or lie about anything. We are so lucky. I guess the writer forgot the days of Hoffa and the mob boys at the union.
Ok...who then is going to spec the contracts? Who is going to go fishing for the bids to privitize? Who is going to award? Who is going to oversee to make sure they are getting what they are paying for? How are going to avoid prevailing wage laws in some contracts? With more goverment employees...that's how!
It's funny how so many many put down the city workers...these are probably the same people who applied and yet never could land a city/county/state job because they are inept nitwits who know nothing about public administration. They just sit and complain otherwise...jealous much?
Having worked both in the private and public sector, I can assure you "private contractors" cost quite a bit more. For-profit companies need to pay shareholders. While employees (aka "people") make less money, other income comes in as profit to feed Wall Street.
I'd much rather my tax dollars pay people who live in my community than feed Wall Street.
We build fire stations in locations as part of a strategy to adequately provide response coverage to our citizens. Stores and gyms are not built as part of this strategic coverage. When on-duty fire personnel leave the fire station and go to other locations, they distort the strategic plan of response time coverage. Citizens may die, and probably have died, as a result of fire equipment and personnel not being at a fire station, but at commercial locations, thus increasing the response time by precious seconds.
Training, shopping, and conditioning need to be done either during special training times while the fire station is fully staffed or during off-hours. If firefighters are truly interested in saving lives, they need to stay in the fire stations for their entire shift.
ScottNV,
You make a good point, too bad you did not do your research. There is always a unit at every station unless they are all on calls. This is why you don't see 10 units in any one place at a time.
As far as people dying because we are not where we are "supposed" to be, I take offense to that, in fact it pisses me off. How dare you tell me I am neglectful in my duties. Who the hell do you think you are. You think you are smarter than every FF on the job today or in the past? Do you think you are the only person on earth to think of that situation? No jack ass. We make sure every shift that the city is covered to the best of our ability.
Before you open your big fat yap, do your research, that means look into it freak.
I apologize to everyone else about my tone. Sometimes being professional just does not cut it with some people.
The mayor of Las Vegas and the mayor of Chicago are on the same boat. Neither one of them has a clue to what is happening. Mayor Daley has made some of the dumbiest moves and decisions, so the Mayor of Las Vegas has competition when it comes to being clueless. The police and fire department in Chicago are undermanned and no solution is in sight. Fireman and Policeman risks their lives everday all around the United States and that is one area where no matter what it takes there should never be any layoffs with these jobs. Maybe Mayor Goodman and Mayor Daley should get together and figure out what they did wrong!!
vette - I don't know about Chicago, but for the last 8 years in Vegas, a corpse could have run this town, it ran itself. The true measure of a leader is his ability to lead not only in good times, but more importantly in bad times. Mayor Goodman.... you failed miserably.
croc, this is for me personally, no one else. You guys need to stay in shape for the job you do, I don't really have a huge problem with going to the gym,but, the public sees you guys on duty, going to a gym to workout, might it be better if you guys had equipment at your firehouse?( I know, being a public service, I was never permitted to even go through a drive thru for lunch). You know you all need groceries, why would you all go while on duty? make a list, go on your own time,make a list, spread it around to everyone, so the public isn't seeing you guys tooling through the store while getting paid.As a FF, will you please answer a couple of questions that really bother me alot. 1)why even after it came out in the news that FF take advantage of the system by working each others shifts on ot, FF are still doing it? Are the FF rallying the union to say you all want to take the cuts necessary to keep all FF working and help balance the budget? As a public service person, I took a 11% cut this last year, we are not allowed ot at all, it must be approved by the Director, and even the governor.We have lost merits, longevity, cola, our pers went up and so did our ins.I also have a family and a home to support, and it makes me really angry to think next year I will probably be hit yet again, because certain agencies won't help.
oh, and your comment earlier about the 70 jobs, how many will lose their jobs? They want cuts to equal 8.8 million and your union offered savings of $900,000? That doesn't even equate to the yearly salary of the battalion chief.
lipton- Thank you for your questions, and I promise I will answer them honestly and to the best of my ability. I also understand your frustration, this is a rough time emotionally for everyone.
OT: when a FF is on vacation or calls in sick, we have a computer system that automatically calls the next FF on a "sign up" list of equal rank to fill in. The list is determined by hours of OT worked. The FF with the least amount of hours worked is highest on the list. There is no way that we can determine who gets the call for OT. Also, we get penalized for not accepting OT we are signed up for. For example: I sign up for OT one week from today. If I get a call for OT and I cannot work it for any reason, I would be penalized 3 times the amount of OT, (24 hrs = 72hrs penalty).
As far as the union goes, our union reps do the negotiating and then when an agreement is reached then it is brought to the membership for a vote.
Form what I understand we have already given up longevity, cola, & step raises, this came to over 4% savings on next years budget. 70 jobs according to Oscar, (FF's 8 percent will save 146 jobs, that's how the media makes it sound).
As far as the news reports, if you think about it, have you seen a news report on news 3 or in the Sun that has a positive spin on it for FF's at all. Doesn't that raise a red flag that there is serious bias going on. A person can't honestly believe that the FF's are responsible for the way things are now. We are just doing what our bosses, (Oscar, Betsy and the city council). Believe me, I am confident in saying I think 99% of us will gladly take a salary cut to keep people from getting fired. I know I would, bring on the 8%.
Also, when we asked about the 8% months ago, Betsy stated she would not guarantee it. No gaurantees.
oops! She would not gaurantee no layoffs. Sorry.
Nothing that elected officials will say is likely to have any real impact on the lives of those who live here. In fact all they do is talk. They do that well and they do that a lot. Is it all they are capable of doing? They talk in meetings, they talk to the media, they talk to each other. The list of talking events over time is almost infinite. The list of meaningful actions toward serving the citizens contains..... nothing comes to mind. If the media and the citizens would recognize that reporting on more talk is meaningless perhaps it would take an actual decisive action by a public official to even be worthy of the reporting.
So long as the media covers talk on a constant basis there is no reason for reportable action to gain the attention of the citizens. The weak link in this habitual chain is the media. It is very easy to report on what politicians say on a daily basis, this cycle has deteriorated to the path of least resistance for our elected officials. They can fill the airwaves and printed press every single day without ever actually doing anything. Talk is easy and cheap but does not solve problems. Anyone can talk. True leadership is meaningful and decisive action.
vegas17,
Very well said.
Very well.
CEA Board list of mistakes:
1. Telling the city manager (who manages the budget ) she negotiates in bad faith
2. Blaming the mayor (city manager's boss) for being a bully which made people "upset"
3. Suggesting that deficit can be reduced by raising property taxes ( who cares about the tax payer)
4. Making sure concessions failed by cultivating an environment of mistrust as seen in #1 and #2.