Council briefed on Lake Las Vegas bankruptcy

In split vote, Henderson City Council decides to meet in closed session for update on proceedings

By Jeremy Twitchell (contact)

Tuesday, Sept. 15, 2009 | 9:06 p.m.

Steve Kirk

Arthur A. "Andy" Hafen

Map of Lake Las Vegas Resort

1600 Lake Las Vegas Pkway, Henderson

The Henderson City Council held a controversial closed-door session Tuesday night for a briefing about the Lake Las Vegas bankruptcy proceedings.

Over the objections of council members Steve Kirk and Kathleen Boutin, the body voted 3-2 to enter the closed session, which City Attorney Elizabeth Quillin said was intended to bring the council up to speed on the resort’s bankruptcy case.

The Lake Las Vegas resort filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in July 2008, and has been going through reorganization proceedings ever since. Earlier this month, the resort’s owners filed their reorganization plan, which is the document that outlines how they plan to emerge from bankruptcy.

Kirk said he understood the need for a briefing, but not the need for it to take place behind closed doors.

“I’ve been brought up to speed and we’ve never gone into a closed session for it,” Kirk said, pointing out that closed sessions are generally related to pending litigation to which the city is a party.

Henderson is listed as one of Lake Las Vegas’ creditors, which number in the hundreds.

“I just want to make certain that your position is that even though we’re not a named party in the lawsuit, we can do this,” Kirk asked of Quillin.

Quillin said the alternative would be to do one-on-one briefings with each council member, which would require the presence of outside attorneys at each briefing and generate a large expense to the city.

“Obviously, the city has an interest in our constituents who live at Lake Las Vegas, which is the reason for this briefing,” Quillin said.

Mayor Andy Hafen, who voted in favor of the closed-door session, said he did so because he believes “very strongly” in the attorney-client privilege.

“It appears to me that if this is a matter of attorney-client privilege, then it’s something that we shouldn’t be discussing out in the open,” Hafen said.

Attorneys from the Transcontinental Corp., which is the previous owner of Lake Las Vegas and still retains ownership interests in some properties at the resort, opposed the closed-door session and called on the City Council to hold open discussions with all parties involved and work toward a mutual solution.

The closed session lasted a little more than an hour.

Discussion: 22 comments so far…

By artswanson

9/15/09 at 9:48 p.m.

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You know that "going under cover" the Council is going to hear some real bad fianancial news....and that they want to try to manage the spin when it finally gets out that Lake Las Vegas project/development is Kaput,dead, Fini, deader than the dead sea and Michael Jackson!
By nednougat

9/15/09 at 10:05 p.m.

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Agree, Swanson.

It's simple. The fools at the City, most of whom are gone, provided 33 Million for infrastructure years ago. Even with over 200 foreclosures, they still think that they'll get their money back. Nah, ain't gonna' happen. You can now buy a tiny 600 sq ft condo at LLV for 90G. But you have 5 to 10G HOA fees. With 3 golf courses closed.

However, there is a meeting with the Control Commission this month to determine if the casino will remain open. Hope it does-I like gambling without crowds of people-and LLV is the Mecca of empty places. Can't imagine who would take over a casino that has lost money from day 1. Right, Bouvier?
By DTJ

9/16/09 at 12:10 a.m.

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"Right, Bouvier?"
Now why did I just know that was coming?
As for closing the meetings, the attorney client privilege premise sounds pretty flimsy to me. The investors entered into business arrangements with the City of Henderson. It would seem to me that their business partners -the citizens, not just the office-holding cronies- have the right to participate in any relavent discussions.
Public access is being denied to help hide something. This sudden near-religious faithfulness to "attorney client privilege" is merely what the good ol' boys thought up this time to pull the wool over the apathetic public. Raise hell, Henderson citizens. Crash the party. You may stumble onto something juicy.
By UNLVGrad

9/16/09 at 6:09 a.m.

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Congratulations to Kirk and Boutin. They are the only two who are willing to conduct the city business in the light of day. All these politicians talk about transperancy when they are running but as soon as they are elected they hide behind a closed door and shut out the public. If it is not party to the lawsuit, the city should discuss the item in public and let the constituents know what is going on.

What a lame excuse, Quillen says if there are private briefings or better yet a public airing of the issue the city would bear considerable expense. If the city is looking to save money, why not look at eliminating Quillen, that should save quite a few bucks.
By oliveu

9/16/09 at 7:20 a.m.

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I don't live in Henderson. But, they still used my tax dollars to build that damn place. And my tax dollars are being used to pay those attorneys, but I can't hear what they say? What a joke.
By Birdiedreamin

9/16/09 at 7:52 a.m.

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something smells fishy to me!!!
By wizardofOz

9/16/09 at 10:59 a.m.

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Uh-oh...

Some-body's in a lot of trouble.

CHECK THOSE FINANCIALS and C&E's girls and boys.

Never mind their smilin' bio pic. Who do they owe.

Who-gave-them-their-money-and-what-did-they-do-for-a-livin'-before-raisin'-their-legal-right-hands?

(as truthfully told under penalty of violation of State Law)
By Bouvier

9/16/09 at 7:02 p.m.

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Bouvier has emerged, briefly.

I am not a realtor. I don't have access to MLS, other than some search engines on one of the Local Realtor websites. I used Stark Realty Condo search search engine.

Currently, active condo foreclosures, meaning ones not in a pending/contingent (sold waiting to close) are as follows:

V- 1
Luna-6
Viera-5
Tramonto-1
Mantova-2
Prima-0

I don't know how to run a search on the current single family homes in foreclosure, so I only have the condo numbers. Can a realtor run the active foreclosures in the homes to add to this?

I'm showing 15 active-unsold "foreclosed" condos. I also don't know how many units are in each HOA. But, I imagine this represents appoximately 800 or 900 units. Nearly 1/2 of the total homes in Lake Las Vegas.

I'm not sure how NedNougat AKA BDover gets his 200 foreclosures number, but when there are currently 15 active foreclosures in all of the condos,that doesn't add up to the ratio he is quoting. Which means he likely made them up, such as the $1,200.00 figure he makes up for the HOA dues in LLV. Which isn't true.

As everyone always seems to talk about HOAs. Yes, I pay 5k a year in HOAs for my condo. But, this also includes: Electric, water, phone, cable, high speed internet, garbage, sewer, building insurance, parking etc. When you subtract out electric, phone, cable/internet, that is not included in many other HOA's, that is some $300.00 a month. Which leaves you with appoximately $250.00 per month for actual HOA dues. Not so high now after all?

Bouvier is not making any other comments, other than stating the facts about the active (non- pending/non-contingent)foreclosures numbers.

Bouvier has again retreated to the patio overlooking beautful Lake Las Vegas.
By Det__Munch

9/16/09 at 8:27 p.m.

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Bouvier
Quit pleading ignorance on not knowing how to look up properties for sale. Correct me if I'm wrong those ofyou in real estate (stevem?) but if you go on realtor.com, it will list all theproperties for sale at lake las vegas by putting in the zip code and type of unit. Some will say "bank owned" or "foreclosure", some don't say anything. As far as the actual sheet that realtors have with all the specifics, they seem to have pretty much the same inforation with the addition of real estate taxes, hoa dues, etc. Those things are not normally listed on realtor.com. realtor.com covers ALL realtors, not just the one type ofplace you mentioned;p they will not have a complete list of properties or they may have a complete list, but aren't saying how many foreclosures there really are. The real place to look is the assessor's website; that will tell you who owns the property, my guess lot of bank names on who owns the properties at L ake Las Vegas!

I tend to go with Bdover on his numbers; may not be that high but not as low as you quoted. As far as hoa dues, those also vary. I have never heard of one being that high as 1200.00, but also never heard of HOA dues paying for your utilities. Water, sewer parking and trash yes, but phone, electricity, high speed internet, etc. never. Basic cable is included just about everywhere, including apartments and basic cable sucks. You may have gotten all of this because the unit needed to be sold but never has an hOA put it's name on someone's personal ut=ility bills. That's the homeowners' responsibility. So unless you can prove mewrong, I dont buy what you're selling about your HOA dues.
And why would you not want your name on phone, electric, gas? That's building a credit history where you live.
By vegas1966

9/16/09 at 8:49 p.m.

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Level it and pull the plug and drain this expensive sink hole
By BLONDEinGV

9/16/09 at 9:20 p.m.

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Wow, Munch, you should really do a little research before posting such puffery.

1) If you show me one credit report where a traditional utility (gas, electricity, water, etc.) reports for positive purposes, I'll give you a million dollars. It doesn't happen. The ONLY time utilities report to the credit bureaus is if you've missed a payment or paid late.

2) Bouvier has noted in the past that this is a vacation property, as are most of the non-investment condos in LLV. So, I'm certain she's (or he's) doing a fine job of maintaining respectable credit at her/his primary residence...but not through paying utility bills on-time.

3) The MonteLago Village is a condotel. In case you've never heard of such a thing, it's quite simple. You mix the whole-ownership of a condo with the infrastructure of a hotel. Ever been to a Hilton with separate gas/electricity meters in each room? The answer is no. These were built to be hotels with the intent to sell the space of each room (or unit) as a condo. So, you feel like you're staying in a hotel for every visit. Bouvier's right. ALL utilities are included in the HOAs. This includes electricity, gas, local phone, trash, water/sewer, and - oh yes - cable TV (expanded package with HBO, etc...not your average basic package!)
By BLONDEinGV

9/16/09 at 10:18 p.m.

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Oh, and just to indulge all the Debbie Downer vulchers who habitually bash LLV for all of its foreclosures, I thought I'd post a few real-time "facts" and "scientific data." Enjoy.

1) There are precisely 16 REOs (aka: foreclosures) available on the MLS as of today. The tally would have been 18, but I know for a fact that 2 of them have multiple offers and are just awaiting bank addenda. There could very well be more than 2 of the 18 with multiple offers, but I can only attest personally to 2.

2) Referencing the TAX RECORD (not the MLS), there are precisely 21 properties (condos, townhomes, single-family, condotels, etc.) that have been foreclosed upon, but are not yet listed on the MLS.

3) There are a total of appx. 1,800 properties in Lake Las Vegas, most of which were sold to investors/vacation-home buyers. Of course the foreclosure rate is going to be higher in the beginning than in normal 'burbs. Think about it. If you live in a property full-time with your fam, dog, etc., you're going to stave off foreclosure for as long as humanly possible. On the other hand, when the economy dove a year ago, all of the investor/vacation-home owners thought: "Hmmm...what's the first ounce of 'fat' we can trim?" Of course it's going to be the investment that isn't making you any money or the vacation prop you visit thrice a year. Duh.

And, the data supports this. According to the TAX RECORD (again, not the MLS), properties are being foreclosed upon at a slowing rate. So, if you can afford to keep paying for the investment or vacation prop for a year after your 401(k) takes a 55% hit, chances are good that you're in it for the long haul. Of course, there will be exceptions to this rule (so don't get out your claws, BDover/Ned/Birdie), but this will probably be the trend.

Side-note: you cannot just type in a ZIP code at Realtor.com to view Lake Las Vegas properties. LLV shares a ZIP code with every property to its west to Boulder Hwy., north of Lake Mead (including Tuscany, Calico Ridge, etc.).
By DTJ

9/16/09 at 10:46 p.m.

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Hey Blonde,
You just spent your whole evening (between your first post and your second post alone, you took an hour), trying to gussy up the pig, AND IT'S STILL A PIG!!!
By Bouvier

9/17/09 at 1:06 a.m.

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Ok, so I'm being like Cher and I'm on my 3rd comeback tour. But, this is the LAST time I comment.

Thank you BlondeinGV for providing the information that I figured was the case on the number of foreclosures in LLV. And for backing me up on ALL utilities paid at Viera and Luna Condos. As I've said before, if you don't believe me, just call them for yourself. Hopefully, this will put NedNougat, BDover and likely another one or two aliases of this same person in their place about LLV HOA dues and # of foreclosures so we don't have to go over this topic again and again and again and again. (But, I'm certain it will come up again)

Gussy up a pig? Gawd. This is the reason Bouvier is making it's 3rd farewell tour from this forum. It's impossible to have a reasonable debate here if that's the best you can do.
By DTJ

9/17/09 at 5:15 p.m.

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DTJ here.
The proverbial "pig" comment was all my own; I just couldn't resist. To mix my Animal Farm metaphors, I don't really have a dog in this fight, other than bad planning and bad property development in this valley hurts me, as much as the next guy. That said, I'm not actually hoping LLV will fail. It's just that I'm resigned to the reality that it is. I don't want to see good resources thrown after bad. But for any of you who do live out there, I'm not out to bring you down. May lightning strike the valley once more, all homes get sold, and everybody can put these times behind them.
By Desert_Rat

9/17/09 at 6:29 p.m.

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Captain Obvious says... Politicians don't close meetings to the public if it's good news.
By Sabibaby

9/17/09 at 7:33 p.m.

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Lake Las Vegas = Epic Fail
By DTJ

9/17/09 at 7:36 p.m.

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Desert_Rat,
Good point.
By Bouvier

9/18/09 at 3:26 p.m.

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Sabibabi = Non-Nevada resident = has no idea what he/she is talking about and should worry about things in his/her own neighborhood instead of posting nonsense, non-factual negative comments here.
By Randall_Reese

9/20/09 at 11:43 p.m.

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FYI: Lake at Las Vegas Joint Venture, LLC and its affiliates - The Golf Club at Lake Las Vegas, LLC and SouthShore Golf Club, L.L.C. - filed a motion on Friday seeking court authority to reject all existing agreements for memberships at the SouthShore Golf Club at Lake Las Vegas.

More details on the motion: http://www.netdocketsblog.com/2009/09/la...
By llvlocal

9/21/09 at 8:21 a.m.

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Just like most of nednougat posts, the supposed facts seem like they come from Fox News.

Hate to burst all the naysayers bubbles but there is very little inventory available in LLV. New houses are selling before completion in my community. And don't worry about your $33 million in tax money. The LID gets paid no matter if the property is owned by the builder or the bank.

Oh and the HOA for the Lake is $90 a month. And my community HOA is $150 a month. Not really breaking the bank. If you guys didn't believe the gossip and rhetoric about LLV you might have purchased in here and been very happy like me. I did my research, too bad you didn't do yours.
By Bouvier

10/23/09 at 11:20 p.m.

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Hooray! The South Shore Golf Club at Lake Las Vegas has re-opened a few weeks ago.

It's so amusing how the media is always so quick to report when something bad happens. However, not a peep when something positive occurs.

This just goes to show that they are focused only on the negative, gloom and doom.

Hey Jeremy, why don't you report about the opening of the course?