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twitterSheriff: Patrol car was going 71 mph, neither wore seatbelt
Police officer recovering from Oct. 7 crash that killed fellow officer
Justin M. Bowen
Sheriff Doug Gillespie addresses the media Tuesday morning to discuss a police crash that killed one officer and left another officer injured earlier this month.
Published Tuesday, Oct. 20, 2009 | 11:08 a.m.
Updated Tuesday, Oct. 20, 2009 | 6:07 p.m.
Sheriff Discusses Crash
Sheriff Gillespie held a press conference Tuesday to discuss the latest information on a fatal police crash.
Sun Archives
Metro Police Officer David Nesheiwat is recovering in an intermediate care facility from a patrol car crash that killed fellow Officer Milburn Beitel on Oct. 7 — a crash that could have been prevented, Sheriff Doug Gillespie said today.
"Both this community and members of Metro deserve to know what happened that fateful night," Gillespie said this morning during a news conference at an office complex and police garage on West Cheyenne Avenue.
Gillespie said that neither officer was wearing a seatbelt when the crash occurred. Beitel was driving the patrol car north on Nellis Boulevard when an unidentified car turned left in front of them.
Beitel was thrown from the car after it struck a tree and a light pole, Gillespie said. "This death was preventable," he said.
The officers had been investigating an odor and had no lights or sirens on at the time of the crash, Gillespie said. The car was going 71 mph in a posted 45 mph speed zone. As the other driver turned left, the patrol car swerved to avoid it, the sheriff said.
Metro Police haven't been able to find the driver of the other car, Gillespie said. Although police would like to talk to the driver of the car that was turning, the person would not face charges, and neither will Nesheiwat, Gillespie said.
Police said the vehicle observed by witnesses turning in front of the patrol car was going south on Nellis Boulevard, making a left turn onto eastbound Washington Avenue.
Both north and southbound traffic on Nellis Boulevard had a green light. The driver of the vehicle that turned left had a "permissive" green turn light, which means the vehicle could make a left turn if it was clear to safely do so.
All facts discovered in the investigation so far point to the Metro Police vehicle having the right of way, Gillespie said.
The patrol car being driven by the officers that night had been serviced every 3,000 miles on a regular basis by an authorized automotive dealer. Services included maintenance on braking and steering systems. The vehicle was last serviced Sept. 4. The brake pads, rotors and drums were inspected and within manufacturer's specifications.
Nesheiwat faces a long recovery, Gillespie said. The sheriff said he spoke to Nesheiwat on Monday, but he does not remember the details of the crash. Both air bags deployed in the collision.
Officer Beitel is the second Metro Police officer to die in the past five months in a car collision that involved speed and failing to wear a seatbelt, Gillespie said. Officer James Manor was killed in a crash in May. He was driving more than 100 mph and struck a pickup truck going 91 mph on Flamingo Road. Manor also was not wearing a seatbelt.
The Metro policy for patrol officers is changing, beginning with education and training sessions for all police supervisors, Gillespie said.
"It's not just changing policy, it's changing education and a culture," Gillespie said. Officers will undergo more training and have to attend mandatory meetings, he said. Officers who fail to wear seatbelts will face disciplinary action.
Police on Tuesday also released details on the number of accidents its vehicle have been involved in.
Metro said any vehicle that contacts any object, including another police vehicle, becomes a reportable accident, even if there is no evidence of the contact on the Metro vehicle or the object. This includes backing into a trash can or landscaping rocks, hitting a curb and blowing a tire, putting a vehicle in park and having it roll forward into the bumper of a vehicle next to it and having a citizen's vehicle roll into a Metro vehicle at a stop light.
In 2007, Metro Police drivers were involved in 725 accidents, or one accident for about every 50,000 miles driven. In 409 of those accidents, the Metro driver was at fault.
In 2008, Metro drivers were involved in 718 accidents, or one accident for about every 52,000 miles. In 431 of those accidents, the Metro driver was at fault.
So far in 2009, Metro drivers have been involved in 529 accidents, or one accident for about every 60,000 miles driven. In 302 of those accidents, Metro drivers were at fault, police said.
In fiscal year 2008-2009, on a monthly basis, Metro drove its 2,000 vehicles slightly under 2 million miles per month. That equals 81 trips around the world.
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After everything that has gone on in the last few months how can Metro STILL be acting so recklessly?
Not running with lights and sirens and not wearing a seat belt en route to a non emergency call? Why would they take an unsafe and unnecessary chance like that?
I guarantee that NONE of these officers would go to work with unloaded firearms or without a Kevlar vest so why would they NOT wear their seat belts?
I see law official violating a variety of safety issues. The one that bugs me is that I often see them tailgating on the highway. What kind of example does that set? I'd much prefer that they ticket the nimrods that keep tailgating me.
Another vehicle turns left (east to north) from Washington onto Nellis, the cops are heading north on Nellis at Washington, WHO WENT THROUGH THE RED LIGHT? Why was the fact that someone had to disobey the traffic signal not mentioned? I'm pretty sure they can get that information from the dash cam. Hmmm, more cover up? At 71 MPH I have a pretty good idea who ran the light! Friggin' cops can get away with ANYTHING they want!! But had that other driver had two beers...OH GOD HELP HIM!!! Everyone from ignorant mothers against drunk drivers to the Pope would have him convicted!!
sadly, AGAIN an officer dies from being "above the law".
Also, does anyone here see a pattern??? Another police vehicle traveling at a very high-rate of speed, well above the posted speed-limit, WITHOUT lights and sirens, and another vehicle crosses in front of the speeding police vehicle causing a fatal accident.
Tax dollars and LIVES wasted for no other reason than Metro ALLOWS and CONDONES this callus attitude.
When a police officer uses the 'officer safety' argument, and 'the this is a dangerous job' excuse I generally buy it. I don't expect cops to take unnecessary risks when dealing with armed, or even potentially armed, suspects, and I understand that ALL suspects are potentially armed. But when they do stupid things like speed needlessly, or choose to not wear a safety belt, it makes those other arguments ring very, very hollow.
If they are going to take dumb risks when driving (endangering you, me and everyone else) then I guess they could be reasonably expected to take some risks when dealing with suspects (and only endangering themselves).
Realistically we know that isn't going to happen so maybe they need smaller, less powerful cars, or some sort of governor on the speeds, or more supervision via GPS tracking to remotely monitor speeds and the operation of emergency lights, I am sure the technology exists and is probably not very expensive. Apparently someone needs to protect us from Metro and Metro from themselves.
Gilespie is a joke, how many have died under his watch? They're 24/7 in strip clubs or hookers stings when not surrounding homeless with 3-4 squad cars. Joy riding must be a perk as well. Sheriff needs to hand in his badge ASAP!!!
drabek..I don't think Officer Beitel got away with anything...he paid with is life
WE get tickets for no seatbelts.why is this happening officers take care of yourselfs.you need cameras on the inside. a week suspension anyone caught without their seatbelt without pay....maybe that will help remind these guys.we don't want to hear about another accident and death for simply no reason except to buckle up.
Officer paid with his life, and I have to pay with my wallet and give him a million dollar funeral for killing himself. Thanks
Here is a hint to all those above the law - seatbelt are the law, and they save lives.
Come on, officers! Wear your seat belts. If us citizens must wear them, you must wear them too! There is no odor that requires the police to drive 71 mph with no lights & sirens on. This whole thing was preventable. I thought fire went out to odor calls? Fire handled those calls in my home town anyway.. things are obviously different in other areas of the country. This is just so sad.
what is the over/under on the number of days before they shoot somebody else???
the cops are out of control!!!
"Because we can." That seems to be the motto of this department until someone else's life is lost over this behavior constantly displayed. Nodding my head in disgust.
let's play "caption the photo" the one headlining this story:
I'll start.......
"I have no clue as to why I can't manage this department........next question."
Sheriff Doug Gillespie needs to either put in his resignation or be terminated. It is obvious that he is not suitable to be sheriff. He can't control his own officers so how can he get control of the criminals running around town killing innocent people.
Breaking News: Metro declares "open season" on left-leaning birds.
I believe I thought the over/under to be 80mph, so we are not too far off.
WHAT A SURPRISE
I appreciate Sheriff Gillespie saying that they need to change the education and culture of Metro.
The vast majority Metro employees are first rate people.
However, there are some real testosterone junkies on the force that are causing significant problems. They don't think of themselves as being above the law... I wish it were that simple. They think of themselves as being the law. They feel like they can do whatever they want in that patrol car and with that badge.
The Sheriff needs to straighten some people out or more accurately get rid of some people. I hope this is a start.
Ladies and Gentlemen introducing Mikegino! He's in favor of Metro needlessly speeding, dying in preventable car accidents and recklessly endangering innocent lives. Let's give him a big round of applause!
Why is it metro can not enforce the law from within? I am assuming that because the officers were breaking Nevada Law that there will be no compensation? (breaking more than 1 law for sure)Maybe it is time to bring in OSHA! Maybe a complete review of a why metro can not practice what it tries to enforce! What a waste of life for a second time! Is there an inside "deal" to see how many vehicles metro can be wrecked in a single year?
Top to bottom NTSB investigation.
Includes training records, supervisory reprimands, driving histories, vehicle maintenance records and a documented test for all officers on knowledge of traffic laws and driving responsibilities.
I still support METRO, but....
Alright Metro officers messed up and paid a price. But dont forget they are actively processing Illegals and deporting them daily. As long as they have a program to deport Illegals they have my support. Seems they are the only agency defending our country from the invaders from the south. Deport all Illegals and report all employers violating the law by allowing these roaches to earn a living.
Yoe think Metro would have a conference room but, noooooooo. let's have this conference at Joe's garage
Well, Dougie, you better get working on that changing policy, education, and culture thing right away before your boys and girls start taking out private citizens along with themselves. Present policies and culture are totally unacceptable. Work quickly, Dougie, elections will be here before you know it.
How sad that both officer's broke the law not wearing their seat belts.
One gave his life and the other now faces a long rehabilitation process to recover
wasn't there supposed to be some sort of international outreach to look for solutions...
hee hee hee...
hoo hoo hoo...
haa haa haa...
what a joke...
here's a thought...
make the cops wear their damn seat belts...
and oh by the way...
lose the attitude...
stop killing citizens...
we are not buying the justifiable use of deadly force crap anymore!!!
I don't mean to take this thread off-topic, but ...
The Sun sure is getting paranoid about Harry Reid losing in 2010. Look at the Reid story on the front of the web page. They're not letting people post comments about a story discussing the chances of Nevada's senior Senator -- the Majority Leader -- being re-elected.
Whasamatter, Sun? Losing your nerve?
This site will probably censor this comment.
wow! Judgesmales...you aer NOT an incredile slouch.
8^)
Another cops sob story blaming it on another car; throw the cop in jail for manslaughter!
More proof that these so-called "seat belt checkpoints" are more than what they are selling to the public. If law enforcement feels that checking for seat belts is worth the invasion of privacy, why don't they use them? I'll "back the badge" when the cops start respecting the laws they enforce.
I am quite sure that if we posters on this article were identified and cited for all of our traffic 'slip ups' that we committed in the last year we wouldn't be posting here as we would need to sell our computers [ and all our other toys[ to pay our fines.
I suspect that a majority of the whiners posting here have received a ticket [ or more] and feel that they weren't justified.
Comment removed by staff. Violation of reader agreement
Burritobandit2 - does it really make any difference where the press conference was held? Or is this just another feeble attempt at bashing Metro?
rejco100 - read the article, the officer that died in the accident was the driver. Kind of hard to file charges against him, don't you think.
Unless one has been in there shoes, it's easy to "arm chair quaterback". I've asked officers why they don't wear their seat belts, and one of the reasons they give is the need to be able to quickly exit the vehicle when stopping cars or arriving at calls. I understand those reasons, but I sincerely believe they can be buckled up while driving to the call and unbuckle when they are arriving, say a block away, so they can make a quick exit; or when making the traffic stop when they finish advising dispatch of the stop and before they turn their lights on. The worst thing that will happen is the car doesn't stop and they have to buckle back up. Come on Metro, I know you're reasons, but it's really not that difficult to wear the thing.
Comment removed by staff. Violates reader agreement.
I have no problem with most cops... if they are doing their jobs. I wish they were a little more humble with the powers they've been given. It's tragic that the officer died. Hopefully Gillespie will pay more attention to the many other traffic violations that police officers commit without their lights and sirens on. I was cut off the other day by a cop. I can't count how many times I've seen a cop texting while driving. I think ANYBODY that texts while driving should have their licenses revoked.
I'm glad to see Gillespie is not so blind to the mood of the community as to make excuses. Hopefully he is sincere in his desire to change the culture -- a culture he was part of for a very long time.
PMMART - the issue is that again another officer has died, needlessly, and all of this due to the mentality of Metro management fully aware and protecting their officers when they do wrong.
I am pissed when I get a speeding ticket in the name of "safety", when it's really more about revenue; all the while Metro buries events where their officers break the law (like driving drunk with accidents), or in the last two fatal crashes, without wearing their seat belts and speeding for no reason.
Metro management needs to have a paradigm shift in their mentality and stop the "protectionist" mentality they perpetuate. Otherwise, more officers, or worse innocent citizens will be killed.
Going 71 in a 45, no lights or sirens? Metro is out of control.
TOG: You proved my point that debating a Leftist is like debating Charles Manson.
First; drug test metro! Steroids are being used and abused.
Second; every time I see a cop driving down the road he/she is talking on their cell phone. Are these cell phones official issued and job related?
Third; smaller cop cars!
Comment removed by staff.
I lived in another state where I could travel through 5 cities/2 counties in an hour's drive. I have never had a close call with any public service vehicles. Been here for 4 years now and all 3 driving members of our family have had at least 1 close call with LVMPD. They have ran stop signs with no light/sirens almost causing a collision, been cutoff abruptly only to see him at the next light with no apparent emergency. Just recently seen a LVMPD car waiting to turn left but decided to accelerate straight through the intersection and quickly continue up the median on Eastern with no lights and sirens. Only then to see him stop at the next light and continue on with no urgency. If someone decided to turn left in the median into a shopping center or driveway, they would have been rear ended. Things definitely need to be done better on their end.
You all can keep blaming the sheriff and calling for his resignation but what it comes down to is there are a whole lot off officers and he isn't their father. The department stresses individual responsibility, as well as supervision by sgt's and lt's. The two officers chose to break the law and not wear their seat belts - don't you think they knew the risks? Its so funny to hear people talk like they are better than the officers we have, when you violate the same laws.
Driving over the speed limit is inexcusable for anyone, but especially an officer of the law, when not rolling code.
2zero: Metro does drug test, and polygraph employees about steroids.
So basically Metro officers are incapable of pulling off the simple task of wearing their seat belts.
In other words we have armed idiots racing all over Clark County without the sense a five year old has...wonderful.
If it isn't killing themselves in stupid car crashes, they are shooting people in the back who dare run from them.
How much longer does this bs go on?
When is Gillespie up for re-election again?
Everyone knew that a 200 foot skid translated into 65-70 mph speed on dry payment. They kept it secret until the had the "hero's" burial for the irresponsible dirt bag at the wheel of the patrol car, who had no consideration for innocent people, a women in a wheelchair, a kid on a bike, a guy coming out of Buck's Bar.
All of these Metro are garbage. They lie, they cheat, they steal. The have an arrogant idiotic attitude that permeates their every move, their every action. They are all scum.
The fish rots from the head down. The cop that was in the car and survived should be fired and he should have to pay for his own medical bills.
Because Gillesspee did not discipline the lying cop that told him that "Manor had his lights and Siren on" -the slime at Metro thought they could keep driving like a bunch of idiots.
If there is an accident that kills an innocent bystander, the Metro Slime involved should get the death penalty.
The FBI and justice department should investigate Metro corruption.
By mikegino: "Breaking News: Metro declares "open season" on left-leaning birds."
That was your attempt at debate? Brilliant.
If Metro adequately and equitably enforced law there wouldn't be any of them left with a "license to kill" -- themselves.
You just can't make this stuff up.
: )
metro needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt ground up.
after my experiences over the weekend with a few metro cops, i have NO respect for this department. not even an ounce.
in understanding that police officers are faced with a rough job that i truly respect, i cannot respect metro pd as a department. they are security guards with bad attitudes and no tactical training other than shooting guns. when i see metro cops getting killed, hurt, or wrecked i cannot show any respect for members of a department that have no respect for victims in a community they are a part of.
id say metro officers are a disgrace to a LE uniform, but the whole department isnt even worthy of being called law enforcement...they are worthy of being called rent a cops with authority....wait, thats an insult to security officers. darn....
in metro, there is no disgrace to the department since the whole department is a disgrace to law enforcement as a whole.
my above statements do not rag on the LE job at all, i fully respect the positions and dangers LE officers face every single day. its a rough job that you have to be mentally even more than physically capable of even considering doing. its a hard job that i speak from experience about. my comments above simply are to discredit metro pd as anything worthwhile or to even be respected.
if it wasnt so scumbag, id love to stand at any metro funeral and hold a sign that says one less scumbag off the "force". that would be wrong though and stooping to their level of respect.
until douggie boy gets canned as sheriff, and someone from the OUTSIDE of any kind of connected good ol boy community can actually be elected, metro will remain nothing more than a harrassment department.
metro focuses on a small amount of issues in the community
speeders
hookers
pimps
strippers
cabbies
and harassment of its citizens, criminal or not.
they do a few stings for fluff to make them look good, but overall they have the people skills of a broken TV set, and douggie boy can only focus on shaking down pimps and hoes.
i agree 10000000000000000000000000000% with the comment of
"The FBI and justice department should investigate Metro corruption."
forget investigate, they should shake metro down the same way they shake down pimps and hoes.
i wonder if i can cite these street punks for speeding?
oh yea, i almost forgot! god forbid you question a metro cop on his mistakes....get ready for a yelling session. punks.
some one should start a "citizen's action patrol" to monitor metro. A metro watch website should be set up so people can download accounts, pictures and videos of Metro's skulduggery.
How many times I've nearly been clipped by a police car going at least 100 mph or more, I can't even count.
I've always wondered how many of those 'officers' have caused accidents as they sail by; how many break the law when they're off-duty.
I'm just glad the person who was making that left turn properly and lawfully, wasn't broad-sided by this policeman - he'd probably have died or been seriously hurt as well.
At least the guilty parties are the only ones who were injured or who died; there's some justice in that............
Wow Mred: garbage, liars, cheats, thieves, arrogant, slime, idiots, and dirt bag. You forgot scum, slug, loser, and others I am sure. Maybe some racial slurs for good measure?
As far as fish rot, I've had fish that have had fin rot & tail rot, so it isn't just the head.
Have you ever called 911 for help? And did you call the officers those names when they arrived to help you? Just asking.
Yeah, in any organization of 5000 people you are going to have some bad seeds. How many people in your job would fall into that category? Is it YOUR fault they're scum? Maybe you fall into that category, I don't know as I haven't met you, but unlike you I won't judge you without some basis of fact. The point is that not every cop is as you describe, in fact, most are not. They couldn't pass the background checks.
Metro should be called on the carpet and be accountable to the public, but the death penalty? And since you seem to hold law enforcement in such low opinion I am surprised you would trust the FBI in an investigation. Or if they backed up Metro would you then cry foul?
Bottom line is all the name calling won't achieve anything. If you want change then get out and work for it. Find a candidate and then work to help them get elected. Otherwise, st*u.
Thanks for the feedback Mr Metro, now go eat a donut. Another good thing is you kiddie cop cars are death traps prone to blowing up in flames.
crownvictoriasafetyalert.com
look at me I'm a man, no seat belt MA!
Do we really know who was driving?
cops are never held accountable and that's wrong. 71 miles per hour on nellis?
inexcuseable.
oh, and every time the cops do "check-points" it's nothing more than a cash register to collect on warrants for unpaid tickets.
the public are morons ( hence, our president ) and think the police are protecting them.
Why aren't these vehicles equipped so emergency lights automatically go on when speed exceeds 65 mph? No reaction from officer...just automatic. Doesn't that make sense? If you're going over 65 mph, it should be an emergency of some kind.
Red: Congratulations, you have marginalized yourself with your filthy Leftist ideals and pronouncements.
pickone - 65mph? Hah! Have you ever driven on the freeway w/Highway Patrol? I've not seen one yet that drives 65mph. No lights, no sirens but they're zipping along like they're late for lunch. Always. They cruise past me like I'm standing still when I'm driving 65mph.
Good idea with the automatic lights though for LVMPD.
So when that officer recovers from the accident, he needs to be issued a citation for a seatbelt violation
They issue tickets for manslaughter to someone who recovers from an accident and killed someone
They issue a ticket to someone who almost died in an accident and recovers for careless driving
And if the officer in question was the driver of the vehicle, there needs to be a vehicle manslaughter charge brought against him
Another cop story of do as I say and not as I do. I'm sick and tired of the double standard
So when officer O'Malley recovers he needs a citation for non seatbelt compliance
An I would personally like someone in the news media to do a follow up on this
There should be a no toleration policy for not wearing a seat belt. You are fired - period. No comma - a period. And going 71 when there was no emergency is inexcusable.
Suggestion to Sheriff Gillespie: I like your idea of retraining everyone and while you are at it, you need to get your officers to go back to basics. Remind your officers that they are here to serve the public and not to scare or intimidate them. A good start is to have the officers present a friendly appearance with a smile. Outlaw those intimidating gangbanger style bald looks from your officers and have them wear hair like yours so the citizens will feel a lot less intimadated. This is just a one citizen's friendly suggestion.
so it's ok for the police to kill themselves and innocent victims
when is the public going to have the toxicology reports on whether or not drug and/or alcohol were involved?
The Prophet has a suggestion for our head peace keeper. Put a few undercover cars on the street driven by internal affairs cops to monitor your police force and week out the bad apples. If cops knew 2-3 undercover IA officers were spying on them, taking notes, I doubt this type of occurrence would be the norm instead of the exception.
mred this is for you
I think it is very unfair that you feel that way about the entire force. I can understand if you have encountered a few bad apples or have had a bad experience but that does not define every single officer with Metro.
Just as if I said all truck drivers are bad because a few of them have been killers. It's that simple task of understanding that with all professions there are the good and bad. Not all teachers are child molestors etc etc.
I have the joy of knowing several damn good officers who will treat all people with respect and courtesy. Not all cops feel they are above the law and they don't walk around with only the badge to define them.
It is a thankless job and you never hear about an officer who maybe went a little out of his way to help someone in need. The argument is that's their job, and yes it is but they are also human. They carry many things on their shoulders and the public hatred for them just weighs a little more.
So in closing, not all cops are "bad", not all cops feel they are above or are the law, and believe it or not some do buckle up and follow traffic laws.
And to officers out there keep this in mind you are on the road for 10 hours a day your risk of being in an accident is that much more. Please take the extra time to buckle up and remember the old saying if you don't arrive you can't help. Please keep in mind that your families wait for you anxiously every night. Stay safe out there.
Sheriff Gillespie is out of touch with his constituents. We file complaints electronically, by phone, by mail, and in person and get no response. Get responsive to your taxpaying, law abiding citizens or get out. The children's wrongful deaths, abuse and neglect lawsuits due to LVMPD's non-response to 911 calls have bankrupted the county. YOUR RIGHT!
I don't get it....if they weren't on a call, why were they raping through town at 70mph?
Sure complain about Metro anonymously on the internet but when you need emergency services who do you call first?
Things will improve as they should.. but give Gillespie and the rest of Metro some credit for admitting fault and actively working to correct a culture that for years has gone unchecked.
Let's also not forget two young officers paid the ultimate price for their mistakes.
After living in Los Angeles for 20 years, I can say with confidence, that I never witnessed a police official vehicle of any kind following the speed limits on boulevards or especially the freeways. So many times I considered calling 911 to report reckless driving on these officials, but always stop in my tracks to leave the line open for real emergencies. They need to be held accountable just like everyone else on the roads.
You or I would be facing 10 years in prison and have life-limiting FELONIES on our records if we did the EXACT SAME THING!
LSinLV has it right people,
until metro controls themselves with in,and starting from the top!Its widely abused on a dayly basis by 90% of the officers weither there on or off duty.We see it all the time when we travel around town.They tailgate,speed around,act like they own the street,run red lights,pass on the right then jump the light,pull people over,and for no just reason have them stand infront of the cruiser hand cuffed?(or so they say for there safety)When the department starts to clean out the bad element,and the(above the law attitude)most of the officers have,the same problems will continue!Im really wondering how much more it will take,before the citizens start a revolt against the department and take matters in their owns hands?I really hope gillespie is reading these posts,and takeing warning on his department?He himself just may end up takeing orders again!
All I care to share on this story is this - Lets take this as a wake up call to wear our seat belts and look both ways regardless of the color of the light... Not saying stop at green lights but just glance both ways before hitting the middle of the intersection. Also, this cop didn't get away with anything as he lost his life...
Being from Philly, PA - LV is a melting pot (more so then any other city Ive been to or lived in) and the habits of everyone on the road are so different making for more potential accidents and issues... Something to be aware of...
I do want to speak out for the good officers that remember what they joined the dept in the first place.I have seen it first hand a couple officers at the store,and over hear that they had a good call and wanted to help the family out a bit with food!AND IT CAME OUT OF THERE OWN POCKETS!!!
"In 2007, Metro Police drivers were involved in 725 accidents, or one accident for about every 50,000 miles driven. In 409 of those accidents, the Metro driver was at fault.
In 2008, Metro drivers were involved in 718 accidents, or one accident for about every 52,000 miles. In 431 of those accidents, the Metro driver was at fault.
So far in 2009, Metro drivers have been involved in 529 accidents, or one accident for about every 60,000 miles driven. In 302 of those accidents, Metro drivers were at fault, police said."
I had no idea Metro officers were in/caused so many traffic accidents. The numbers are staggering. The Las Vegas Metropolitan area is not that big. OMG - scary.
I believe Metro should symbolically submit criminal charges against the deceased driver to the DA. It is a shame that he died. It would be a bigger shame if he'd killed a bystander. If he had lived, he could have been charged with felony reckless driving.
I've had one close call with metro, a patrol car ran a stop sign and nearly taking me out on my bicycle. The answer I got from my complaint was "sometimes they need to sneak up on situations." Yeah, it's a cultural problem. If an officer feels like he's got to run a stop sign to do his job, great; just don't take my life when you do. Everyone who drives in this town routinely sees Metro and NHP speeding, failing to use turn signals, tail gating, etc.
But, consider the benefit. The officers don't care about traffic violations so they're not enforced as much as in other cities. I routinely drive 10 miles over and have never even been stopped, even when caught red-handed (knock on wood).
Desert_Rat - Not sure where you found that info at but very interesting... My argument to those facts (if valid) would be Metro like any other police dept spend the majority of their time in their autos on the road patrolling and such so it would stand to reason there would be a high margin or issues/ accidents Metro at fault or not... Not defending them necessarily but just like it is likely a bouncer at a club will get into a brawl/ fight more so then you & I...
VegasGM85 said: " Not sure where you found that info at but very interesting"
The LV Sun added it to the end of their original story, they do that sometimes, especially for the online stories and it is usually a good thing, but then sometimes it means we are not all playing from the same sheet of music.
Metro does basically drive for a living but those numbers seem awfully high. Two things I think we have to consider here:
1. The LVMPD policy definition of "accident" is broader than the standard definition.
2. The "at fault" part of the equation is undoubtedly suspect as we all know who judges "fault" in an accident.
Ive read alot of posts and I just shake my head because I cant believe how ignorant some of the people are making some of these comments. First off I do not condone an officer ever driving in any manner that will create a hazard. I agree the officer should be responsible for his actions while driving. Most of the officers recognize that if they are enroute to a call and they get into an accident, they just turned themselves into another problem. No officer wants to add to the problem. Ive read the comments of wanting a resignation from Sheriff Gillespie because of the actions of an officer. This is unreasonable in the sense that would you ask Bill Gates to resign because of the actions of one of his subordinants. You dont throw out the baby with the bathwater.You fix the problem. Sheriff Gillispie wasnt in the vehicle and officers are trained in driving. They are responsible for the way they drive even with or without lights and sirens activated. Just because an officer is driving 71 miles an hour doesnt mean he has to have his lights and sirens on. Know the policy before you make a comment. They have policy that dictates when to drive with lights and sirens activated. Unfortunately Officer Beitel made the descision to drive at 71 mph and not wear his seatbelt. Against how officers are trained. He made that descision not Sheriff Gillespie. Another thing I want some of the brain surgeons commenting on this post to ask themselves. If there is a police emergency that requires immediate police response how fast do you want the officers responding to drive. I assume you want them to get there as soon as possible. Well that requires them to probably go faster than the posted speed limit and put themselves in jeopardy trying to get to your call. You cant have it both ways. And as far as cover up, Pleeeezze. Sheriff Gillespie came out with the findings and addressed the public all not favorable to the LVMPD. What the hell difference does it make where he had the press conference. Whats important is the findings and what was said. I can go on and on, everyone has a right to vote, if you dont like Sheriff Gillespie ,then dont vote for him, as far as him resigning, aint going to happen. Ive seen a few people telling their own war stories about citations they have received or some contact with officers that left a sour taste in their mouth. Its obvious from the comments that they are not going to give any officer a fair shake because even before they know all the facts, they are going to filter the incident through their own negative experience they encountered in the past with some officer and there will be prejudice. Not Fair at all. The public wants to be safe, and have a police dept. that protects them, they just dont want to see how its done. It gets ugly out there. You think you can do a better job as a police officer, Join up and lets see how far you make it.
Just another thought for everyones minds,In the middle of all the road work that is going on flamingo,paradise,and harmon,they decide to put in a check point tonight!10/21,on flamingo.Now im not sure how the law is written here(i havent looked)but think there has to be an excape route?And not one thats lined with 4 patrol cars.If people want anything done,they need to contact the FBI in Washington.Contacting the local office does nothing but pushed under the rug.As for the idea of haveing undercover cars on the road,wont work.Their in the pockets too!Something indeed needs to be done,but its not the dept as a whole,its alot of bad decisions being made by them and it all STARTS FROM THE TOP!!!
A police officer lost his life in the line of duty. Regardless of why, or how, this young man perished. How about we stop the finger pointing for once? Take the lessons learned from this tragedy, and change the way we do things so we dont lose anymore officers, or civilians for that matter.
If you can't wear a seatbelt, stay the hell out of any vehicle, unless it's parked!
Law enforcement is more dangers to themselves than the public. Who trains these guys!
Another example of how law enforcement creates a culture of petty criminality among its own members. Just on principle, I respect anyone who wears a badge. But I would never trust them. I think our laws are important, but no one should blindly worship people who wear badges and carry guns; far too often, they've demonstrated an unwillingness to police themselves or hold themselves accountable for the responsibility they have to the community. You accept a badge, carry more weaponry than an insurgent militia, then whine about how you had to shoot that little lady holding a dinner knife because she was an "imminent threat" to your life? You drive like a moron, rolling your car at high-speed because someone makes a left-hand turn in front of you, then try to roust the poor bastard for drunk driving, only to be proven a liar when - by the grace of God - the truth finally comes out? You take hours off from your job - with pay - to parade out to the funerals and weep at embarassments to the uniform, touting them as "heroes" and "fallen soldiers" - when they represent really nothing more than wasted, stupid lives that've cost taxpayers time and money in training them, only to cost even more in pensions and benefits once they die by their own stupidity or recklessness? After doing things like this, you expect people to trust you? You're lucky anyone even respects you. And there's nothing in a training program to fix it, because it's basically a disconnect in a police officer's own values - the ones he or she says they profess (and expects others to profess, or else risk going to jail) and the ones they actually demonstrate on a daily basis (and generally end up justifying on the basis of all the "scum" and "risk" they have to deal with). Here's a tip to all police officers on that path or tempted to it: we get it. Life's hard; people are cruel, stupid and prone to wickedness; the work day of a cop is fraught with risk, uncertainty and the possibility of death. But we didn't ask you to become a cop, and we've never given permission to police officers to view us or our community as their personal playground, to lord it over whenever their work or personal life gets tough and unsavory. We certainly didn't give the police permission to discount their responsibility to all of us, simply because the people they deal with on a daily basis may be the worst of us. You're a police officer. Act like it. And stop making excuses for yourself or your colleagues. It diminishes the honor and dignity that should be inherent in the badge.
avoicefulhook,
You said:
"Most of the officers recognize that if they are en route to a call and they get into an accident, they just turned themselves into another problem. No officer wants to add to the problem."
This might be the way most officers think, and that in itself illustrates a problem. An police officers first thought should be about safety first, the public and his own. His duty is to protect not endanger the public.
You said:
"Just because an officer is driving 71 miles an hour doesn't mean he has to have his lights and sirens on. Know the policy before you make a comment. They have policy that dictates when to drive with lights and sirens activated. "
When this happened last time (back in June)the LV Sun reported Gillespie as saying that "The sheriff said officers must obey traffic laws if responding to calls without using their vehicle's emergency lights and siren."
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/may...
That is the 'policy' here that I am working from, if you can show us the 'real' policy then I am all ears. This officer was clearly violating policy.
You said:
"as far as cover up, Pleeeezze. Sheriff Gillespie came out with the findings and addressed the public all not favorable to the LVMPD."
People are expecting a cover up after the way the Sheriff handled the last accident. While that might not have been a full blown 'cover up' it was, initially at least, less than transparent.
The Sheriff never punished the officers who LIED from the last event. He said no one is going to be punished from this event for not wearing a seat belt which, as you said, is against policy. What good is policy if no one is going to enforce it? Who is in charge of enforcing policy and why isn't that person doing a better job?
We all get that being a cop is a difficult job, but who ever said it was going to be easy? Having a difficult or dangerous job is NOT an excuse to act how you please with no accountability. Nor does it give you any special rights to endanger everyone around you.
I am really sorry for the Officers family, truly I am. But when someone endangers my life or the life of my family for no reason I get angry.
http://www.citizenreviewboard.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_M...
Notice how they didn't release this information before the "hero" funeral... LOL... what a joke.
Quite frankly, I don't want these hazards known as Metro on the streets we travel or in our neighborhoods let alone be forced to sponsor their criminal activites.
I am responsible enough to handle my own "policing" without their ASSistance.
I feel confident my friends and family member are safer without their presents.
: (
I have a scenario for people to think about. I'm not saying this is what happened in this accident. An officer is driving down "A" street. Going the opposite direction he spits a vehicle that matches the description of a vehicle which has been used in several robberies. The officer turns around to catch the car. If the suspect vehicle is driving the speed limit, the officer would have to violate the posted speed limit to catch up to the car. By department policy the officer is not allowed to roll code 3 in this instance. Should the officer let the car go or should he violate the posted speed limit to catch the car?
Is that even a real question?
Unless it is a matter of that officers immediate life or death the officer should always follow policy period. Otherwise it would be called "advice" and not "policy".
My question wasn't regarding policy.
LVN8tive - how about using the radio to contact other units in the area to help "corral" the suspect vehicle???? they have both surprise and numbers in that scenario to resolve the issue without acting recklessly.
there are always options, and what the public is seeing now is the lack of oversight and/or poor mgmt allowing staff to disobey any policy/law, and statistics are catching up with them. sadly, police are losing their lives.
funny thing, when I was sent to driving school for a speeding ticket, the NHP office who taught the class talked about the most important thing you can have when you 1st get into a vehicle: attitude.
the problem with metro mgmt is that they have trained/allowed a poor attitude to be pervasive within the department, and now it's coming back to "bit them in the ass".
@LVN8tive
Remember at this point we are talking about a car which might be evidence in a robbery, nothing more. The officers involved are not required to do much more. I do not even think this is about securing a safe stop or not.
The problem with Metro is they think their job is to solve crimes...it is NOT. The cop in the street's main task is to prevent crimes, not solve them. Chasing a car which they think could be one used in a robbery is not a central task of their job. If you watch too much TV you may think otherwise.
If the Police are focused on "getting the supposed bad guys", instead of proper preventive police work, then new bad guys will take this inattention as their cue. Police have a responsibility to all of us, not just the narrow rights of a few victims. Those issues are to be handle by police above street patrol who are in a far better position to deal with them.
The focus should be on the macro task of preventing crime with a solid consistent presence. Chasing screw-ups all over hell and back trying to correct problems breeds more problems. For every perp you capture, 2 others are created in the vacuum created by your inattention. You cannot leave the pocket, leave home, and win the game.
I would submit this supposed "robbery" in your example might have never happened in the first place if Metro had not left home.
A valid argument, however, I think you would be surprised to find other officers are not always available especially in the swing shift hours. If other officers were available they would have to be very close to be able to respond quick enough.
There are times when an officer is going to have to disobey traffic laws. Can officers drive in a safer more courteous manner? Without a doubt. We all can. I have said this before and will say it again, this community will continue to decline until officers and citizens can learn to work together to make it better. As a person who was born and raised here, remembers how Vegas use to be and has a vested interest in this community both as a resident and an officer, I hope that time comes sooner rather than later.
It really doesn't matter that seatbelts weren't being worn. Personally, I HATE the seatbelt law as I believe it should be an individual's own choice to risk their life or not.
Having said that, the real problem I see is that the driver made an unsound decision to speed under circumstances that didn't justify it. He took a risk and paid for it, just as I would expect to pay for a bad decision.
I would entertain an argument that public servants must be held to a higher standard since their mistakes cost the public who pays for them financially.
Las Vegas has some of the worst drivers in the country, just look at our auto-insurance rates. Metro should not only be aware of this at all times but should also stop contributing to the problem.
People who do not wear their seatbelts are morons. The rest of us should not be held to pay for your stupidity. That is why we have seatbelt laws. You do not have the choice in a civilized society to be a moron.
This cop died because he was THROWN from his vehicle. The other was lucky and the force of the crash crushed his exit and he stayed with the vehicle. Seatbelts would have saved lives and injuries in this accident.
As a result of two police not wearing their seatbelts and playing cops and robbers, the Taxpayers of Clark County now have a major league bill to pay. This is why we wear seatbelts.
stephenrblv said: "As a result of two police not wearing their seatbelts and playing cops and robbers, the Taxpayers of Clark County now have a major league bill to pay. This is why we wear seatbelts."
The last sentence should say "That is why Metro (or any public servant) should wear seatbelts.", in my opinion. The financial argument in general should be addressed through insurance requirements, not compulsory behaviour laws for the general public.
In principle, there is little or no difference between the government saying you must wear seatbelts to protect your body and telling you what books you can not read in order to protect your mind. Individual responsibilty should be objective of good government.
When you do not wear a seatbelt you put OTHERS in danger. You also increase the costs of insurance for the rest. That is not freedom, that is stupidity.
Who's to say the injury sustained by the officer who lived was not from being struck in the head by the others leg? Seatbelts are worn to keep you in the vehicles and to not become a projectile inside during a crash.
I seriously cannot believe somebody is actually advocating seatbelts should be optional. Go do some research. This has NOTHING to do with your rights or big brother.
Your unbelievable "Harley" - Ill remind you that next time someone (like 3 guys or so) break into your house when you or your wife is alone and off guard OR when you or your close family member has an auto accident or other medical emergency and Metro is or would have been the first to respond... Ill also remind them to drive the speed limit to get there... Ignorant comments... I dont understand the people (like you in this case anyway) who leave comments like that - There must not be a filter between your brain and mouth... By all means have an opinion and let it be known but do it with some grace - not being rude or ignorant to those who take a job knowing that they may be KILLED trying to protect/ serve/ rescue/ etc YOU and YOUR LOVED ONES!
Stephenrblv,
Are you kidding me? You sir, could not be more wrong. It is not the job of a sworn police officer to investigate a crime or make an arrest? If a patrol officer is driving down the street and witnesses a robbery in progress should he just keep driving? What if it was a shooting? According to you those acts would be outside his scope of responsibility.
A patrol officers first duty is to answer calls for service. By the way, if the officer went after that car in the scenario and it turned out to be the involved in the robberies, he probably just prevented more robberies from happening.