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twitterFeds withheld negative Yucca data, say Nevada officials
Data shows proposed nuclear waste facility would fail, says state agency
Tuesday, Aug. 11, 2009 | 4:21 p.m.
Nevada officials say they have found evidence that the Energy Department withheld data in a licensing request that would prove a proposed nuclear waste repository at Yucca Mountain would fail.
The Nevada Agency for Nuclear Projects discovered two documents in a computerized database not included in a licensing application sent to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that show how unsafe buried nuclear waste would be at Yucca Mountain, said Bruce Breslow, executive director of the state agency.
In May and in July the state agency sent its concerns to the NRC about the repository operating without titanium drip shields to protect buried containers of high-level nuclear waste and spent fuel from the nation's reactors, Breslow said.
In the 1990s, Energy Department and state studies showed that water ran through Yucca's layers of volcanic ash much faster than scientists had calculated. Special metal was needed for the containers, as well as sheets of titanium that would be installed after the repository closed, to prevent water from corroding the containers and releasing radiation to the environment.
Among the millions of pages of Energy Department documents posted on a shared computer data bank, two indicated that the containers would fail much sooner than 10,000 years, disqualifying Yucca Mountain as a repository.
"We don't think this is a safe scenario," Breslow said today. "This was left out of the license application."
The NRC responded in a one-paragraph letter on July 23 that the staff review "will include careful consideration of the items you mention."
That wasn't the answer the state was seeking, Breslow said. "It doesn't mean that the NRC staff will require the DOE to run the models without drip shields in it and provide that information for a license application," he said.
"It certainly wasn't meant to be a brush-off of the state's concerns," said David McIntyre, an NRC spokesman.
Last month Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said that he had negotiated an agreement with President Barrack Obama's administration and the Energy Department to stop all funding in the FY 2011 budget for proceeding with the NRC license application review. The commission is now chaired by former Reid staffer Greg Jaczko.
The NRC has also signaled it could delay the final version of the Safety Evaluation Review, the key to determining whether Yucca is considered safe enough for a license, based on funds provided by Congress.
By failing to include the worst-case scenario inside Yucca without drip shields, the state has a major argument against further licensing proceedings, Breslow said.
The state found documents dating back to 2004 asking the Energy Department for a review of the drip-shield scenario, Breslow said. The results contained in the department's own documents would have disqualified the site before the license application was submitted.
The license application proposes to install such drip shields after the repository is closed, both too full of nuclear waste and too hot for human workers to install them, Breslow said.
To install 11,000 drip shields inside the repository, the Energy Department plans to use robots. The state challenged that assumption.
"In 75 years they would have to go back to Congress and try to get some money," he said.
The state contends that the Environmental Protection Agency's 15 millirem per year limit on radiation leaking into the environment would be violated long before 10,000 years, disqualifying Yucca.
The Energy Department did not respond for requests for comment by deadline.
U.S. Rep. Shelley Berkley, D-Nev., called the scheme to use robots inside a Yucca repository "straight out of a bad science fiction plot."
Berkley said the nuclear industry needs to start over again on a policy to store and dispose the radioactive wastes safe and secure.
Discussion: 32 comments so far…
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So this is what Chimpy Bush and his gang of criminals was going to leave us...A glowing hole in a Nevada mountain that would have probably killed the remainder of the human race here on this continent over time....
What an idiot Bush is..it's hard to imagine how he and his surrounding family actually make it thru a day with destroying something....breathtaking....
listen up boys and girls...
you don't need to be a rocket scientist...
yucca is in a mountain prone to earthquakes...
above ground water...
ergo...
it is not safe...
period...
end of story...
and to those poor poor terribly misguided republican friends among us who support yucca...
you have issues...
serious serious issues...
run to get some help...
do not walk...
run!!!
Yes, the most brilliant minds who are government employees at 10 National Labs and the USGS intentionally designed a repository that can't meet the requirements.
If this were true, over 10000 employees should be fired on the spot.
Obviously, it is not true.
And again, this is NOT a Republican project, but a project of Congress, all 50 states, except Nevada now. Originally of course they were in favor of it.
There is no rocket science about installing drip shields like Berkley states. Gantry cranes install them remotely. Yes, underground, near radiation, etc etc etc.
And to state that oh my gosh Yucca Mountain doesn't work without dripshields is like stating a plane doesn't fly without wings - duh, you wouldn't build a plane without wings. So you wouldn't build Yucca Mountain without the drip shields.
But besides, the drip shields probably aren't needed. The first 100 years before closure would be monitored, hence the name MONITORED RETRIEVABLE STORAGE! If drip shields are needed, then they could be installed. If the analysis was far too conservative, maybe they aren't needed at all.
Yucca Mountain would be a living storage facility, not a "dump" like the antis portray. The Obama/Reid alternative is monitoring over 100 sites across the country for hundreds of years. Yeah, that makes sense. Will they all have drip shields?
Birdiedreamin,
You are dreamin'.
We build cities, refineries, schools, and nuclear plants over far more active earthquake zones.
And any, ANY underground repository site you choose with either be above groundwater or within it.
At least Yucca has 1,000 feet of rock above groundwater-- as opposed to current storage sites, many of which are near rivers, lakes, or coastlines.
And Dave already nuked your Republican argument.
Ergo, you are clueless. End of story.
What a farce of an article and argument! I love this argument that we can't trust our government to pay for installing drip-shields in 75 years, something that is committed to in the license application, YET, somehow we can trust utilities and the government to take care of, defend and maintian scores upon scores of surface storage sites at reactors, even long after these reactors have been decommissioned and abandoned, for 50 to a hundred years!! That is the (ill)logic at play in denying Yucca Mountain's going forward and saying that storage is OK where it is for up to 100 years! Has anyone consulted those communities?
As soon as the NRC announced it would have its long-term safety evaluation out at the end of fiscal year 2010 for all to see, their budget gets cut, knocking it into 2011. BUT then the plan to cut all licensing funding at the end of 2010 is also announced. So that report, which is quite likely to declare Yucca Mountain safe if built as the license application specifies, will never see the light of day. Politics trumps science.
In all the frantic panic about the dangers of the glowing hole in Yucca Mountain that is going to kill off the human race on this continent, why is it that Obama, Reid and the rest of the critics are not screaming to the high heavens about the state of the surface storage sites that exist now . . . strung out across the nation? Isn't anyone worried about that?? It certainly doesn't take a genius to see that storage solution isn't going to work! Okay, so how's this for a great idea . . . let's pour all the science, research, effort, sweat and money that has been expended on the Yucca Mountain Project down a black hole in favor of NO SOLUTION at all!! It is insane!!
the more i see of the state of this nation in its eventual decline, the more i come to understand that the only reason we encounter extra terrestrials is because they are dropping off their prisoners; i hope they arent serving life.
And, there are many more solid documentation that DOE has hidden over the years. These were written by real scientific researchers, based upon sound scientific evidence.
It would put all of the Yucca debate to rest if ALL of the documents were revealed and evaluated by an independent council of international scientists.
What is DOE afraid of? The truth? ABSOLUTELY!! YMP is nothing more than a toxic litter box that a gang of thugs wanted to force on Nevadans. Think of them as mob clean up boys who are paid to dump "dirt" in the desert. Then you get the picture!!!
Back in 1987, when I was involved in the analysis of candidate repository sites, Yucca Mountain and the other 2 finalists were all perfectly adequate for eternal safe disposal of spent fuel. Disposal of spent fuel and the number, 10,000 years, are really stupid, but that's a side issue. Anyway, since that time, the requirements were changed for no good technical reason, and now there are unnecessary drip shields and a humongeously expensive alloy container surrounding a perfectly adequate (by itself) inner stainless steel container. Some of the anti-YMP comments are mindless drivel from people who have no idea of the science behind the selection and design of the YM repository. Yes, by all means, keep the spent fuel out at the reactors where it's easily available to terrorists, not that they could handle it or enrich it.
"What a farce of an article and argument! I love this argument that we can't trust our government to pay for installing drip-shields in 75 years, something that is committed to in the license application/Abe"
Gee, Abe starts out showing intelligence! Then says something that shows he is easily fooled by our govt!
Whats that joke about govt? They have arrived to save US???
"Some of the anti-YMP comments are mindless drivel/Martin"
Ah, the real truth! But I would change SOME to MOST!
If those anti-YMPs did their homework and learned about the material the waste is buried in and the effort of the tunneling machines to get through it, they would seek to get their own roofs built of TUFF!
WIKI:"Most geologists who have worked at the site still maintain that the geology will adequately slow the rate of waste seepage to protect water supplies..."
Actually, Im more interested in seeing a review of landholdings and special interests for Reid and his minions. Especially since the landlord of all the buildings YMP is currently leasing will be empty soon and the landlord isnt screaming about the loss of income!
What does Reid control to keep them quiet???
HARRUMPH!!!
PS Its like with Pelosi owning Clean Harbor stock and stopping oil drilling off of California to ensure her stock doesnt crash.
Science isnt what drives Reid and anti-YMP. Its greed.
hey yucca insider...
simple question...
is it possible that an earthquake could crack that rock between the storage facility and the ground water...
you bet your derriere...
simple question part deux...
would it be safer to store the most toxic crap on the planet in a non earthquake prone area...
you bet your derriere...
game...
set...
match...
now...
run along now little man!!!
I hope Birdiedreamin has some spare derrieres because he has no idea of what he's talking about. Sounds like he got his science education from a few bumper stickers. That earthquake scenario is straight out of Steven Spielberg. And after this well-placed earthquake, where'd all that water come from? And how come waste containers were buried on an easily-identified fault line? Does Birdiedreamin ask such simple questions because he's simple-minded?
hey marty...
answer a simple question buddy...
is yucca in an area prone to earthquakes???
yes or no???
we don't want to hear any of your scientific mumbo jumbo...
yes or no???
Earthquakes do not spit waste packages out of the ground, tear packages apart or create pathways that will get any of the waste into your drinking water within millenia or in harmful concentrations. If reality is over your head, get out of this debate. It may sound like mumbo-jumbo to you, but that's because you're not qualified to participate intelligently in this discussion.
OH BIRDBRAIN~
If I were going to build a house out of sticks and glass, I would much prefer YMP beneath me then most any other place because it is much less quake prone then other places and its isolated from NIMBYs nearby.
But, the best place to be during a quake is deep inside the earth as it is more likely to stay intact then if it were above the earth.
Which is why they build subways below ground in places like LA, which are very quake prone and drop freeways to the ground so easily.
Go visit the people who are building the site rather then listen to the self-serving SPIN from those with ulterior motives and who are defying the Congress who voted for it!
So much for the popular vote!
Birdbrain,
Obviously a good name for this poster.
Earthquakes split the ground down to the water level? Have you been watching a TV movie or what?
Are you over 10 years old?
Plus, if you have a repository below water level, doesn't this mean that it is always wet and therefore the radionuclides dissolve into the water eventually rising to where people use the water? What a stupid idea. Kinda like keeping the waste at 100 sites above ground where tornados, terrorists and airplanes can crash into them!
But in the end it doesn't really matter. Obama and the Democratic 2 trillion/yr deficits will destroy the economy of the United States such that we won't be needing any storage facility since there won't be any one alive to care!
Reid for President! Oh wait, he already is. The guy in the White House just doesn't recognize the fact...
listen up boys...
i knew you frauds couldn't answer the question...
yes or no...
bottom line...
it is earthquake prone...
and i know with 100% certainty...
whenever the governement is going to bury the most toxic crap on the planet in a big whole in the ground in an earthquake prone area...
that means eventually there will be some gigantic disaster...
there can be no doubt that will happen...
none...
especially with government engineers like you clowns working on it...
also...
there simply has got to be a better place...
one not in an earthquake prone area...
one not near a major metropolitan area which just happens to be one of the most visited places on the planet...
that's just stupid...
period...
end of story...
what about maine...
or north dakota...
there has got to be a better place...
sorry boys...
time to brush up the old resume!!!
Why is it most people assume that all radioactive waste comes from nuclear reactors?
Nuclear reactors produce some of the needed radioactive isotopes for industrial inspection,safety devices and medical equipment, etc. etc.etc.
15 milliroentegens of radiation a year from YMP, is not really a big deal if you understand radiation exposure and its effect on the human body.
Do you know that being out in the sun on a daily basis, that your body will absorb 2 mr. of ionizing radiation per day? "GAMMA RADIATION"
Have you heard of the Gamma Knife Surgery Center in Las Vegas and all the other hospitals across the country?
They work to help save lives! Using (COBALT 60). A radioactive isotope that in the wrong hands could kill thousands of people with out them ever knowing they were exposed, until the ill effects of radiation overexposure set in.
Planes dont fly if you dont take radiographs of the structural components and ships and bridges do not stay together if you do not radiograph the welds, etc. etc. etc.
Human lives are saved because of the production of nuclear reactors.
So 2UALL that dont know, Radioactive material surrounds you and you do not even know it! Try living without it and watch your quality of life deteriorate.
A lot of tax payer money(s) have been spent to provide a safe disposal area that will be monitored forever and any problem that should arise we would correct it, rest assured it is safe enough to be in every major city in the U.S. that we could and will make it safe to be stored in a place where they detonated above and below ground nuclear tests.
Build Yucca Mountain Nuclear Repository and the citizens of the state of nevada will find the prosperity they have been looking for.
Do not miss your chance, 'citizens' of nevada
for this opprotunity of a lifetime.
This state could become the most important of all of them in the country if people would just wake up.
If someone knocks on the door of the state of nevada with billions of dollars in their hands for us, someone should open that door!!!
hey 2uall...
brush up the ole resume buddy!!!
Hey birdiedreamin!
Nice to see that you took the time to pull your beak out of harry reids blow hole and respond to me.
I do not need to brush up on the resume as I am gainfully employed and always have been.
You must be one lonley old hag that nobody wants anything to do with!!!
Sorry about your luck in life.
Birdbrain is really weird, isn't he? If there''s ever an article that informs him that there are actually skyscrpers in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle, his obsession with earthquakes and his ignorance of their behavior is going to make him even battier than he is now.
2uall said.....
"Build Yucca Mountain Nuclear Repository and the citizens of the state of nevada will find the prosperity they have been looking for.
Do not miss your chance, 'citizens' of nevada
for this opprotunity of a lifetime.
This state could become the most important of all of them in the country if people would just wake up.
If someone knocks on the door of the state of nevada with billions of dollars in their hands for us, someone should open that door!!! "
One word....NONSENSE!
Oh Lobo~
They were surprised at the level of tourism that came to Arizona just to see the Aircraft Boneyard at DM!
Ever wonder why all the surrounding businesses to YMP want it built?
Ive developed a growing indifference to the future of America. After all, if they would vote in a glad-hander who schmoozes his way through life with the right words and deeds that dont match his promises. Reminds me of a car salesman.
Even worse is what the LOONEY LEFT has done to our children with the PC education over the 3R's. Just try to order at McDonalds and have to repeat the item numbers cause they cant figure out the spelling of the words, and then they have to wait until the register tells them how much change to give.
China must really be scared to own so much of our debt and see our education standards decline.
Then again, the future adults will increase their market share of faux FIsher-Price toys...
SIGH ;-(
PS Bring back the old BELL SYSTEM Science shows and educate our adults as well as the children!!!
If the best someone can do is repeat what I already wrote and close with a response of NONSENSE!
I must reply and say they have no sense at all!!!
And on the other side I must compliment them for repeating the most important part to the citizens of the state of nevada...again!!!
Thanks EL
Just for the record, I'm a pro-nuclear, pro-reprocessing, pro-YM liberal Democrat who realizes that my brethren are wrong on energy issues. It's unfortunate that Republicans are wrong on everything else, and after 8 years of supporting the Bush/Cheney disaster, you'd think they would be quiet for a while. Try to focus on YM political issues and genuine scientific stuff. With ignorant people like Birdbrain ranting and raving, the pro-YM crowd doesn't have to shout; we are clearly the adults in this debate, and acting like town hall idiots doesn't impress people looking for the truth.
hey you pro yucca blowhards...
we have clearly established that it makes far greater sense to build a storage facility for the most toxic stuff known to man in an area which is NOT prone to earthquakes...
that premise has been proven beyand all doubt...
period...
end of story...
so...
answer me this my self interested geeky friends...
does it not make more sense to build a storage facility for the most toxic stuff know to man in a remote rural location is which far away from a major metropolitan area which just happens to be one of the most visited places on the planet???
hmmm???
yes sir ree bob...
it makes perfect sense...
period...
end of story...
game...
set...
match...
you know what i keep thinking of when i hear you blowhard geeks try to talk over my head...
credit default swaps...
that's all we ever heard about credit default swaps...
they are complicated...
yadda yadda yadda...
well guess what...
they really weren't very complicated at all...
just silly little casino type bets that a debt security would not default...
any craps player could figure them out...
and they destroyed our economy...
so when you want to talk your scientific crap...
when you try to talk over my head...
i know you are just selling me a pile of crap...
yucca is not complicated...
it is built in an area prone to earthquakes...
it is built too close to a major metropolitan area which just happens to be one of the most visited areas in the world...
ergo...
it is WRONG to build it there...
shut your ugly pie holes...
get jobs someplace else...
thank you very much...
i will be here all week...
make sure to tip your waitress...
and you geeky clowns can kiss my brilliant behind!!!
Ergo people like birdie and others take random acts of nature magnify them act is if they occur all the time and think these rare events will release the toxic chemicals. Give me a break.
You can run a train through one of those casks, set it on fire, and submerge it in water for a lengthy period of time and NOTHING happens. It would take decades for water to corrode the casks, plenty of time for a fix to be made.
They are putting it miles out of town in an arid part of the country a mile under ground.
People opposing Yucca are nothing more than reactionaries making a big deal out of nothing.
It is just unbelievable how being self-righteous can make so many people blind to so many facts.
Do you suppose Birdbrain has a closed mind? We are talking over his head, and with his head up his you-know-what, he couldn't hear us even if he were qualified to understand what we are saying. He wants to issue a peremptory rejection of YM because an earthquake is possible. That idea was posed, discussed, analyzed and rejected decades ago for perfectly credible reasons that have been discussed in some of these comments and not understood by Birdbrain. If I weren't enjoying this exchange so much, I would go outside and do something useful.
I forgot to mention for Patrick's benefit; you should have said "millenia" (check my spelling), not "decades". Even that is conservative in the arid climate at YM. And 90 miles away from Sin City is not their backyard, Birdbrain. (Not you, Patrick)
hey gibbons...
oops...
can you say freudian slip...
hee hee hee...
man that is too funny...
or terribly terribly sad...
come to think of it...
it is just plain old terribly terribly sad...
here's what i think buddy...
you probably don't plan on living in vegas for very long...
if you even live here now...
you and our geeky scientific friends that work there probably will be long gone by the time the disaster hits...
and make no mistake my friends...
when the government buries a big black box in a hole in the ground in an area prone to earthquakes...
there will be a disaster...
period!!!
end of story!!!
Personally, I think it's Shelley Berkley who is straight out of a bad science fiction plot. She had no idea that robots are always used in highly radioactive areas? Where has she been???
Read the posts by davelv and former_yucca_insider. They're the only ones who contribute rational comments to the Yucca Mountain issue. Everybody else is just screeching -- or maybe they like to see their fake names in print.
Well, it's been fun, but the bottom line is that Birdbrain is a nut case. Game, set, match, end of story. Hasta la vista!