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Sunday, Nov. 4, 2012 | 2 a.m.
Sun coverage
It won’t be long before you start hearing angry voices in the Las Vegas City Council chambers again.
A report by an independent consultant looking into the operations of the Las Vegas Fire Department will be released to the public this month or in December, city sources say.
The report, commissioned for $155,000 in June, was blasted as a waste of time and money by Dean Fletcher, head of the city firefighters union. He argues the department is the finest in the land and doesn’t need more study.
City Council members, though, said they want the report to detect possible inefficiencies. After all, though the winds of the economy seem to be picking up, tax collections still are a far cry from what they were four or five years ago. And among the biggest expenses for all local government are the salaries and benefits of firefighters.
One key feature some say the study will look at is whether city firefighters should work shorter shifts, such as 12 hours versus the current 24 hours. Savings behind the shortened shift theoretically would come by way of lower overtime payments.
How is a 12-hour shift for firefighters better or worse than a 24-hour shift?
It’s cheaper to pay overtime to someone if they only have to work 12 hours versus 24 hours. At the same time, however, it would require two firefighters to fill the 24-hour shift currently worked by one firefighter. That means hiring more employees and accruing more costs for training, benefits, salaries and everything else.
Beyond money, some studies suggest 12 hours are preferred because they allow the employee to rest more; working 24 hours can lead to mistakes.
It’s a contentious issue. And the politicking and lobbying behind the scenes has only just begun.
How do you know that?
For starters, two weeks ago, the city issued a press release the likes of which you don’t see too often. It was an announcement that the International City/County Management Association had reached a “milestone”; it had completed a draft data analysis. What had reporters scratching their heads was that little further information about the study was provided.
Instead, the city merely said at the current rate of increase, expenses for the fire department “will be unsustainable in time.”
It went on to say the Fire Department budget has increased 43 percent, from $77 million to $111 million, since 2004 – an annual growth average of 6 percent versus the city’s general fund growth of 3.5 percent.
What about lobbying from the firefighters union?
That’s happening, too.
Thursday, the union emailed the mayor and members of the City Council with a report from the Insurance Services Office dated October 2011 that gave Las Vegas Fire & Rescue high marks.
“This document speaks for itself as to how you have an ISO Class 1 Department,” Fletcher wrote in a message attached to the document.
Has that report played on the minds of council members?
Councilman Bob Beers said it demonstrated to him that “there is no question that ours are among the most capable firemen and women in America.”
The firefighters union supported his bid to become a councilman this year during a special election. That said, he appears to hold empirical data in higher regard than politics in making decisions.
“It will be interesting to see if the (upcoming study) finds way to improve efficiency and effectiveness without sacrificing quality,” Beers said. “I would not support sacrificing LVFR’s quality.”
•••
Much ado was made last week of the Guns N’ Roses advertisement for its four-week run at the Hard Rock Hotel. The ad depicts a woman sitting on the sidewalk appearing to have just been assaulted.
Part of the controversy included the fact that the Hard Rock asked the county to create street signs that say “Paradise City Road.” The casino paid $1,500 for five of the signs. Paradise Road, where the Hard Rock sits, was never formally or informally renamed Paradise City Road. It was a pure public relations stunt.
The question is, can anyone with $300 get Clark County to create a fictitious street sign? How about, for instance, “Schoenmann Way”?
No. Erik Pappa, Clark County spokesman, said the county “created the signs to support the event and promote tourism at a time when our economy can really use it.”
And that’s that.
My girlfriend's car broke down the other day, near a fire station, and the firemen let her in their station. It was noontime, and she thought she was at the beach. The FF's had gone to the supermarket, and bought a bunch of stuff, including BBQ meats. All was peaceful and sweet. What an easy life, for big bucks and little to do in residential Henderson. We are fools...
@doogie - Way to thank the HENDERSON Firefighters that made sure your girlfriend was safe while her car was broken down. Inviting her inside but all she thought about is how the FF was spending their time. Did you even read the article? It's in regards to LV firefighters.
@doogie -
So you have a problem with firefighters spending their own money and having lunch. Did your girlfriend stick her nose in the restroom and see if any firefighters were using it during their 24 hour shift. Based on your letter, I'm assuming any girl that goes with you probably doesn't know what the big E on the gas guage means.
@doogie -
Haven't seen any arguments yet on your last three words in your post. Everyone must agree with your assesment of yourself and your girlfriend.
of course we need to pay 160K to grunts with HS education---we have to--no one would want the job if we only paid 60K.
Firefighters are at the top of the overpaid list in this county---30% pay and benefit cuts across the board.
the state list of overpaid workers is filled with fire grunts with fancy titles making over 200k--amazing how many chiefs do you really need in this town????
@MRLUCKY
your comment is not accurate. back east starting firefighter pay is in the upper 30k range plus benefits. many men and women do this job for far less than 60k. NOW, the amounts paid to these FF in southern nevada is extreme to say the least, but before the economy went south in 2008 no one bothered to keep their salary in check. we the people of clark county should have put and end to these high salaries years ago.NOTHING will change, this is a fact... the firefighter union has the county by the balls and puts fear into the eyes of the regular john q public that has no clue that these departments can do way more with much less. there are many many ways..but it will never change here in clark county...a year from now= more "talking" about the same thing...no action.people, please stop allowing PUBLIC servants to dictate !
I used to work in a paper mill and whenever there were job openings, the line would sometimes be a 100 yards long and last all day. After weeding out the people who didn't have the basic education requirements, passed the drug tests , aptitute tests,interviews,phyicals. The 15,000 applicants was usually down to about 100 people. Of the 100 people that were hired, usually 50 quit in the first month because they didn't want to work weekends and rotating shifts and actually had to show up for work on time.
You get what you pay for. Go look for a cheap doctor the next time you go in for a major operation and let us know how that worked out for you.
The report can't address it when the question is not even asked. WHY do we pay 4-5 times in compensation of what other places pay--remember the New York firefighter who makes about $50K including benefits, after 10 years on the job? New York has a higher COL than Nevada, so what the hey?
andy 10:40: Please become a trusted commentator. I've heard that the LVSun "blogs" are read widely and influence the public and politicians. I believe the staffers are reading us--I've been "quoted" in context a number of times.
@doogie - you told almost the same story back on 6/14/12..."My girlfriend in Henderson had a vehicle malfunction in front of a fire station here in Henderson. While waiting for AA help, they allowed her to wait inside the station. What she found was amazing. A giant barbecue being prepared while the "fighters" snoozed on recliners in air conditioned luxury. Playing on computers, fiddling with their cell phones." So is your girlfriends car always breaking down conveniently in front of a fire station or are you just making up stories?
Doogie, it is surprising that you are choosing to make a generalization on what the work day of a firefighter looks like coming from your girlfriend who I am assuming was at the fire station for no longer than 30 minutes. First I am sure her flat tire issue was handled with compassion and professionalism by the on duty crew. Second, are you really faulting these firefighters and criticizing the work they do because they went shopping for food and bought "BBQ meats"?? Employees no matter what the profession or job is are going to eat while they are at work wether it is a lunch break, snack break, etc. Firefighters are no different and given the hours they are at work (24 hours) it stands to reason they would have gone to the store and purchased food for their shift! Are you upset because they bought BBQ meat? Contrary to what most folks believe, firefighters purchase their own food as a crew with their own money. If they choose to buy steak and lobster with their OWN MONEY I can care less! I'm not sure what your argument is or what point you are trying to make in criticizing the food these men and women buy with their own money. Is there down time for these firefighters? I'm sure there is... there is down time in ANY job or profession out there. I do know that the Henderson Fire Department runs approximately 24,000 calls for service each year. This information is public record and on their website. Given this figure you can rest easy... these firefighters are earning their pay. Instead of making generalizations in the future stop by a fire station and go ask questions or, here's and idea... do some research!!
@ "Bob the Realist"... Let me help you out with some "realities" to this profession. You propose moving to a 50% volunteer staff for our valley fire departments? How do we run an efficient volunteer system when our local fire departments are responding to the following numbers of incidents per year:
Clark County Fire- approx 100,000 calls for service per year
Las Vegas Fire- approx 92,000 calls for service per year
Henderson Fire- approx 24,000 calls for service per year
North Las Vegas Fire- approx 24,000 calls for service per year
Volunteer system?? This looks like a full time gig to me! Volunteer systems are designed for more rural areas that respond to no more than 2,000 calls for service per year. This is a valley of more than 2,000,000 people! If you have doubts what the the fire department is or is not doing stop by a fire station and ask them questions; or if you feel so inclined ask to do a ride along with the crews so you can see first hand what these men and women do.
@ Roslenda...
Firefighter Salary:
BASE
FRINGE*
TOTAL
STARTING SALARY
$39,370
$3,704
$43,074
AFTER 1 YEAR
$41,311
$8,159
$49,470
AFTER 2 YEARS
$44,995
$8,886
$53,881
AFTER 3 YEARS
$49,494
$9,775
$59,629
AFTER 4 YEARS
$54,556
$10,775
$65,331
AFTER 5 YEARS
$76,488
$22,616
$99,104
Promotion Opportunities:
Lieutenant
$94,300
$31,548
$125,848
Captain
$108,244
$40,919
$149,163
Battalion Chief
$140,945
$20,336
$161,281
Where did you get your figure of $50,000 for FDNY fire fighters salaries?? This is straight from the FDNY website... May I suggest you do some research in the future before you post inaccuracies about any subject. Knowledge is power... do not believe everything you hear and instead seek to be educated by doing some of your own research... it will open your eyes to FACTS.
@ Roslenda again... the FDNY pay is equal to the firefighter pay here in the Las Vegas valley
@ Andy, please post your solutions to fixing our firefighter "problem". Complaining about an issue sounds a lot like whining when you do not present well thought out, educated solutions to a perceived problem. I'm waiting and look forward to your SOLUTIONS on this forum so we may have what I hope to be a productive discussion.