Facebook
Fark
Digg
Reddit
Stumble
Saturday, July 7, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
I wonder how some letter writers draw the conclusions they have by merely blaming Republicans and corporations for the demise now facing the working class in this country.
Where does the money come from that is used to pay decent wages and benefits? Is it not true that most of the union pension funds grow largely thanks to the earnings of the evil corporations that often employ those who will benefit?
One writer recently stated that Republicans refuse to allow a publicly funded jobs agenda. Obviously this person is too young to remember the Great Depression. As part of the New Deal, Democrat Franklin Delano Roosevelt was able to get a series of “alphabet soup” programs through Congress. When we entered World War II, virtually everyone went to work.
If Obama keeps the spending and manages to convince enough people to support to his measures, we are surely traveling down the path of Greece, Spain and other nations now facing economic failure.
You are right - when we entered WWII, everyone went to work.
Defense spending is stimulus spending. The publicly funded jobs agenda of the Republicans is Defense spending and they embrace it with open arms, literally.
Only the Government will be able to correct a broken economy. As in the Civilian Conservations Corps, only the Government can put people to work where the product cannot be sold on the shelf but only appreciated.
During a time of economic collapse, wealth is stored in secret vaults. Grand Cayman and the Virgin Islands are swamped in cash waiting for the good times to return.
If you are waiting for a Free Market Economy to restore America, look at Mexico. Their economy is nearly wide open but only benefits a fraction of the population.
Congress has passed the majority of bills in Obama's jobs agenda - so why is Obama whining and complaining
-- Congress passed the 2.3% payroll tax rate reduction putting nearly $200 billion into the 2012 economy
-- Congress passed the student loan interest rate bill to keep the rate at 3.4%
-- Congress passed the highway transit bill releasing $110 billion in construction jobs
-- Congress passed the small business relief act to back off the stifling Dodd-Frank rules
Plus -- The House has passed over 30 jobs bills that Harry Reid and Obama refuse to act on.
=============
What Obama still wants is to expand local, State, and Federal governments by hiring more temporary government Union Workers who will sit around doing nothing for a year and hope another bill will be passed next year funding them. And then there is the funding of green companies that keep going bankrupt.
I agree with this letter. Until the failed policies of an immature and inexperienced Leftist president,who never met a payroll, or worked in business are replaced by policies that are business friendly, the economic performance of America will be anemic. Once Obama is replaced, and a new business investment friendly climate is created, the economy will take off in the right direction. The Left fears market based,private intiatives that stimulate the economy. They whine these policies have not worked in the past--which is another Leftist lie. The very thought of an experienced business executive taking charge in the Oval Office will remove the the lid on investments,job creation and venture capital infusions, as soon as Romney is announced the winner.
Robert Latchford wants you to develop Amnesia and forget the Damnable record of covert president cheney and his puppet 'duh' bush jr. and their collusion with the Corporate Fascists of America that wrecked our economy that will take decades to recover.
The results of the 'almost financial market collapse':
The loss of $34,000,000,000,000 of America's wealth that took over 200 years to create.
The loss of millions and millions of jobs.
Millions of homeowners foreclosed upon.
Millions more underwater.
Millions more facing foreclosure.
The average loss of $100,000 in your homes equity.
Over 400,000 families being pushed into poverty.
The above is from a Sun Editorial on 07-19-11
There is no way we can forget what has been done to us by the Greedy Corporate Fascists and the Political Fascists/republicans.
Letter writer is right. It's not the party that is the problem. It's the policies of the party that are the problem. Roosevelt who had no understanding of economics, none, used keynesian economics during the 30's to bring the US out of the depression. Didn't work. Obama used the same old futile keynesian policies for the last 3 1/2 years. Hasn't worked. Like the 30's and FDR. Like Europe now. If he's elected, he'll do the same for the next 4 years. Governments can't spend their way out of recessions. It's a myth perpetrataed by keynesians like economist Paul Krugman who make a career of preaching and writing about them. The private sector is the engine that drives the economy at home and around the world.
CarmineD
Democrats are cheering the direction of the Obama economy $16 trillion in debt, 1.9% growth and 23% underemployed.
Look at the employment history
-------------
Clinton January 2001 Employment number 137,778,000 million
Bush December 2007 employment number 146,273,000 up a net 8.5 million jobs since Clinton do to 2003 tax cut.
January 2007 Obama, Reid, and Pelosi took over Congress
Obama 2012 Total employment - 143,202,000 million jobs down a net 3 million worker
-------------
January of 2007 Democrats took over Congress; the House with Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank; the Senate with Obama, Biden, Harry Reid, and Chris Dodd.
"One writer recently stated that Republicans refuse to allow a publicly funded jobs agenda. Obviously this person is too young to remember the Great Depression. As part of the New Deal, FDR was able to get a series of programs through Congress."
Not impressed. The GOP did something beneficial for Americans seventy-five years ago. And all this time I thought they were do-nothing obstructionist.
"One writer recently stated that Republicans refuse to allow a publicly funded jobs agenda."
Latchford -- not sure what your letter aimed for on this point. This part seemed to say FDR saved the country by putting everyone to work for government, then got us into WWII so everybody had jobs. That obviously isn't working today. Government workers are essentially parasites -- for the most part they are not self-supporting nor do they contribute to the GDP. Second, we have the world's mightiest military machine actively engaged in Afghanistan and roaming the rest of this planet looking for missions, so where's the jobs?
"The private sector IS the wealth generator, not government which acts as a leech and a hinderance on the private sector."
RedRocky -- so glad to see this basic economic truth from someone else!
"...Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them." -- Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, in a TV interview for Thames TV "This Week" on Feb. 5, 1976
Just Google-Bruce Bartlett.
"When bush took office, we had a debt of about $6 Trillion. The projections from the CBO were that we were going to run a $6 Trillion surplus. By this point, if we had done nothing, we would have paid off the dead debt, but we added about $3 Trillion of tax cuts. We lost about $3 Trillion because of the slower economy and added about $6 Trillion of spending, largely due to two unfinished wars and a Medicare drug benefit(unfunded) and lots of other things. So, instead of getting..paying off the debts--we ended up with about a $14 Trillion debt.
"Bruce Bartlett destroys every Republican talking point in 5 minutes"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/28......
GOP Representative McClintock:
"The American people are about to give Republicans a second chance that we know we don't deserve, that we haven't earned...The American people have every right, and every reason, to blame a Republican president and a Republican Congress for the mess that confronted the Obama administration on January 20, 2009--let us be honest about this"
Comment removed by moderator. - -
It's definitely relevant to blame some elements of business for the plight of the working class. Greedy Wall Street and Banking interests created the credit crisis in their race for profits. The unfortunate thing is they had to be rescued by the Government to prevent even more damage to the working class.
Their actions have cost this country and it's present and future taxpayers many trillions of dollars in economic stimulus costs and property values. The fact that these business geniuses present themselves as the ones most capable of solving problems they could not see coming only six years ago leaves me suspicious, not only of their motives, but also whether they are nearly as qualified as they want us to believe.
"Where does the money come from?" Says it all. If we keep discouraging and attacking workers / taxpayers and their employers, how much longer can we go on? Print more money? Can't. We've printed it all. What happens when the inflation hits for the artificially low interest rates? Something has to give--for forcing interest rates down. Right now, we're offsetting that inflation with the deflation from the economic stall.
Greece's government spending as a percent of GDP is over 50% compared to 41% in the US. Back in the 1930's, US government spending as a percent of GDP averaged 19%. Clearly, we're spending more and not even paying for what we spend. Our entitlement costs are unsustainable and democrats won't admit to this fact.
Since 1948, the US GDP annual growth rate averaged 3.23% compared to Europe's .39%. Why the difference? Higher tax rates and higher legacy costs(healthcare fees and other benefit-related costs for its current employees and retired pensioners) hinders Europe's economic growth. Essentially, liberals are recommending policies that do not promote business expansion, new business start-ups and job creation sufficient enough to get our 12 to 14 million jobless Americans working again and sufficient enough to create jobs for new entrants into the workforce. Americans three top concerns are jobs, the economy and debt/deficit spending and apparently Obama and liberals plan to do nothing to ease American's top concerns.
RefNV,
Print your sources so people can judge whether what you are asserting is anything other than propaganda.
Hmmmmm....nothing new coming from those who sleep over on the right!
The right-wingers still refuse to give FDR any credit at all for saving this country during the Great Depression. Of course, their knowledge of history (are you listening Carmine?) is no more than a 2 on a 10 point scale...
Yes, FDR's New Deal did not end the Great Depression.....it took our entry into World War II to do that...
Of course, when FDR took the oath of office as president in March of 1933, approximately 25% of the work force was unemployed...great job Hoover! Great job GOP!
The 25% unemployment rate that is often used is probably too low. America's unemployed farmers weren't included in unemployment stats at that time so an argument can be made that the unemployment rate was some where around 35%..
Again, many thanks to Herbert Hoover and his greedy old party, the Republicans... Like today's GOP they were clearly a clueless bunch whose best work was causing depressions and recessions and then blaming the other side for what happened...
By the time we entered World War II, the unemployment rate was some where around 10-12%, with the government including the farm population into the stats...
Of course, the Republican Party of the 1930's was in some respects no different that today's brain-dead group.
They did everything in their power to oppose FDR New Deal and they fought FDR and his attempt to re-arm this country in order to meet what was coming down the road.....World War II.
I guess it can safely be said that something's NEVER change.....at least not with the brain-dead Republicans!
Same attitude...same failed policies......same fascists approach to governing!
Trickle down economics and the financialization of the economy is squarely the reason for the this economic collapse. The way out is clearly the way of Franklin Roosevelt.
The obfuscators and paper shufflers are clearly conservative democrats,Ron Paul supporters and Republicans.
"Of course, their knowledge of history (are you listening Carmine?) is no more than a 2 on a 10 point scale...'
Based on the liberal rewriting of American history BUT not on actual historical facts and circumstances. Read more than the liberal school textbooks if you want to really know history.
CarmineD
Existing government spending will bankrupt this country...and quite soon. That's not a political problem. It's a mathematical certainty.
WRT the CCC, it was a make work project. Term and temp employment at best. After his one year service, my father, a CCC supervisor, was back on the unemployment line in 1933. Not until 1941, when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor did he have another Government job at the Kearny Shipyard in NJ as a machinist balancing propellers on subs for WW2. That lasted until the yard closed in 46 after the war ended. He went into business for himself. Something he could do because the economy, thanks to the war, was back on the mend.
He told me many of the men were too old and weak to stand the outdoor southern to put out forest fires and rebuild roads. He would tell them to find some shade under a tree and back up the front line workers, who were doing the actual work, with food, water and supplies. For fear they would die from heat stroke and exhaustion.
CarmineD
When the CCC concept was revised in the early 90's under President Clinton by General Don Scott as the National Civilian Community Corps [NCCC], it put an age requirement on the members. 19-26 years old. Why? Among other reasons, many of the projects and tasks of the NCCC then and still now simulate the CCC from the 30's and the physical standards had to be higher.
CarmineD
Carmine said in a very early post, (5:27 AM) the following:
"Roosevelt who had no understanding of economics, none, used keynesian economics during the 30's to bring the US out of the depression. Didn't work."
Ha! Ha! Ha! It appears that my little buddy, Carmine, is reading the wrong kind of history books...
Actually, in all fairness to Carmine, he's partly right but only partly right...
In other words, he's not telling the whole story....
Carmine has a habit of doing that...
Yes, FDR"s New Deal program did not completely end the Great Depression , but he did prevented a revolution from taking place. and his policies helped move the country forward.
Here's what I posted earlier on FDR and the Great Depression..
".....FDR's New Deal did not end the Great Depression.....it took our entry into World War II to do that...
Of course, when FDR took the oath of office as president in March of 1933, approximately 25% of the work force was unemployed...great job Hoover! Great job GOP!
The 25% unemployment rate that is often used is probably too low. America's unemployed farmers weren't included in unemployment stats at that time so an argument can be made that the unemployment rate was some where around 35%..
Again, many thanks to Herbert Hoover and his greedy old party, the Republicans...
Like today's GOP they were clearly a clueless bunch......
By the time we entered World War II, the unemployment rate was some where around 10-12%, with the government including the farm population into the stats..".
In other words, Carmine told only half of the story. Under FDR, the unemployment rate dropped from 25% (or maybe 35%) to 10-12% between March of 1933 & our military build-up starting in 1940.
10-12% unemployment didn't put us completely out of the woods but it restored confidence in the American system and resulted in FDR's re-election three different times...
In other words, Carmine would have us believe that FDR's New Deal was a complete failure and FDR's policies didn't work.....nothing is further from the truth.
Ha! Ha! Ha! Carmine HATES giving credit when credit is due, particularly if the person deserving credit is a Democrat.
Oop's, I keep forgetting, Carmine is a "level-headed, fair & balanced Independent!"
@VidiVeritas,
Your link to that Bruce Bartlett conversation is extremely informative. I'm fascinated with pundits and politicians who speak with sanity and common sense but are ignored or denounced by their party. Several of these conservatives have spoken, such as Jeb Bush, and had to walk back comments because the loonies went off their nut. Meghan McCain often makes more sense than her elders but is immediately attacked by "catty women" reffering to her weight. That is the state of the GOP/Tea Party, zero tolerance.
I'm still waiting to see the FEMA re-education camps and Presidents Obama's private army brought up in conversations by politicians elected to Congress. Oh, did I forget the communists within Congress Allen West refused to give us the names of? Is he conspiring with commies? Joe McCarthy would have a field day with West's knowledge. Why isn't Darrell Issa on top of this?
We are not heading in a wrong direction. This country will survive all of the present day insanity as it has in the past. This right wing explosion sending some off the deep end is nothing new. Hopefully this cycle of paranoia will end soon and we can get back to taking care of our hard working citizens, not the "economic vampires" sucking the wealth out of the country.
Either new deal spending ended the depresion or WW II spending ended the depresion, or both. But spending ened the depression.
The middle class creates jobs, not the inhireted wealth Romney's of this world. They put their moneey in Bermuda, Cayman Islands, China etc. Romney even invested in a Chinese appliance company that pirated patents. ey's RomnSankaty owed 50,000 shares of Global tech.
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cas...
The new French Prime Minister, Jean-Marc Ayrault gave a speech to the National Assembly on Tuesday and announced the plans for the new Socialist government. Next year the French need to cut spending by about $43 Billion to meet the goals of 3% deficit of GDP. Their solution is to hire 150,000 additional government workers and tax all income over 1 million Euros at a rate of 75%.
Personally, I think this is insanity but many posters here have advocated he similar things in the past. It will be interesting to see how this works out!!!!!
Vernos is a cheerleader for the liberal left. Vernos thinks that if everybody in the country works for some agency of the government the country will prosper. just as Nancy Pelosi said it would.
dip said:
"over 60% of the republican base is over the age of fifty and these are the morons that voted for bush TWICE....."
Doesn't say much for the future of the GOP does it?
History tells us that any time a political party in the U.S. gets too far to the right or the left, their days are numbered...
Good bye GOP.....it was nice (not really) knowing you....
Is it possible to use US military to build all these new roads and bridges in the grand infrastructure spending plan? This way the military could be expanded, men trained and housed military style and work would get done, people would have jobs and skills when the time is right for them to go into private sector jobs.
The CCC program, put into operation under the New Deal, was a wonderful program and it was one of only a few programs that got the backing of the GOP......
Yes, to a certain degree it was "made work" but guess what? It worked. It put money back into the economy and food in the mouths of many Americans...
I had three uncles in the CCC program and they told me several times that it was a "god sent" for them.
All three (along with two younger brothers) joined the military before or immediately after Pearl Harbor and all five survived the war...
Three in the Pacific & two in Europe...
I recently ran into a World War II veteran who had a mountain of information about the CCC program & his part in World War II.
He told me that he and his older brother both served in the CCC's and he later was part of a B-25 bomber crew who operated out of North Africa.
He said the CCC program took him off of a street corner in his home town in western Illinois and put him to work clearing brush, building roads, planting trees, and digging flood control channels.
He said that he was very fortunate to be part of the CCC's because a few of his buddies who didn't join ended up in jail for small crimes that they did...
He also said that most the young men who came out of Chicago loved the opportunity that the CCC's gave them.
They had been unable to find a job in Chicago for several years,(unemployment rate in Chicago reached 50%) and as he describes it, "they were as happy as a duck in water" because they "received three meals a day, a warm bed to sleep in and a small amount of money to spend each month."
The way the CCC program was set up, most of the monthly salary (less than $30.00) was sent home to the families of each worker, with only a few bucks given to the young men themselves...
My veteran friend also said that serving in the CCC's encouraged him to grow up and face the world as an adult.
Before I forget, he served in North Africa under Montgomery and flew over 50 combat missions in that theatre of the war.
He said that flying 50 missions in North Africa was a "cake walk" compared to flying say 10 missions over Europe. He said, "we had it easy compared to those guys in Europe."
The gentleman I'm talking about just had his 90th birthday two weeks ago....
Peter Fritz...
You bring up a very interesting concept...
I happen to believe that the military could be used to build infrastructure (bridges, roads, dams, etc...) in this country but we would need to some how increase the number of young men & woman that we currently have in our military.....
Case in point....Eisenhower was part of a military plan (1919) to see how long it would take to move an army (men, tanks, trucks, etc..) from the west coast to the East coast in time of a national emergency.
Ike and the other officiers involved in the plan spent three months moving their small army across country, building roads, bridges, etc... along the way.
Using the military worked well but Ike came away convinced that we needed a better system of roads for both military defense & commerce......thus the building of the Interstate Highway system once Ike became president...
Can you see any of the present day Republicans buying into that line of thinking? I can't!
It appears el loco will dominate the prose for now
MOVING FORWARD ONTO THE RIGHT ROAD IN CITIZEN DEBATES
Many of us in these discussion rooms, to certainly include myself have had posts removed at one time or another for varying reasons as denoted by the room moderator. Some of us, again me included, have a tendency to be less humble and a bit more contentious when we are not per se, in a live video conference. Meaning, blindly, we tend to bunch the political opposition as having standard political beliefs and leave it at that while we make our own points.
Would the Las Vegas Sun go for creating a "Skype" type discussion room where subscribers would pay a small monthly fee to be a part of live video discussions? People who choose to just peruse the live discussions would not be required to pay this fee. I think this would be extremely popular and very profitable for the Las Vegas Sun.
I trust it would be practical that there be the following options for subscribers to this "Skype" brand of political discussion.
In The Live Video Discussion Rooms
There be in a video discussion room a chronological queue formed and based on a "first come first serve" basis that would allow each commentator a one minute time allotment before automatically moving to the next commentator in line.
Second Option
Subscribers would also have the option to make a personal video that would be limited to three minutes in duration where they could post such either in a live discussion room and or e-mail their video recorded conference to any another person who has an account with the Las Vegas Sun. Something like what the Las Vegas Sun e-mail system is composed of now.
What does everyone think? Good idea or not? Send me an e-mail if you desire to let me know your thoughts. If we have enough people who say yes, as a group, we could propose this to the management of the Las Vegas Sun.
However, there is a down side to every potential good idea. <laughing> My wife interjected that prior to going on a live conference I would have to comb my hair and put on a decent shirt. Damn!!!
"El Lobo" writes; "Can you see any of the present day Republicans buying into that line of thinking? I can't!"
Oh contrere!!! "In reply to "ElLobo"; I agree with your commentary that the military should be used for improving and or building many of our infrastructure projects.
Navy personnel and the Army Corps of Engineers have saved our Marine Corps tails more than a few times in military operations with their innovative, precision and timely work. I'm all for that!!!
X FACTOR:
Government spending/creating jobs DID NOT end 0Depresseion.
Government spending on WWII DID NOT end the depression..
What ended the Depression was "Disposable Goods (blowing stuff up/replacing said stuff) and REDUCING POPULATION...fewer workers..
It has been cynically suggested that the Viet Nam war was a government spending/population reduction measure to cure a stubborn minirecession in the 1950's. Too many babyboomers coming of age..
The US cannot cure unemployment when a new worker enters this country every 11 seconds..
And Obama welcomes them with a "work permit"..
If you want to know and see the results of just one project constructed during the Great Depression, just go to the Hoover Dam--built by taxpayer and borrowed dollars.
Brought in under budget and has paid for itself many, many times over. Prevented flooding of farmlands, provided drinking and irrigation water, and provided electrical energy.
Most of the WPA buildings are still standing.
All the Republicans have ever done is whine and complain and very seldom have they offered any plans that benefits the country as a whole.
Where is their record of positive political accomplishments?
I keep asking that question but there has never been a reply!
Vidi?
Was Eisenhower a Democrat?
Hmmmm...it appears that TEA has been away from this board quite a bit lately or maybe he's been doing what Ronald Reagan did so well as president.....take long naps!
The Henry Morgenthau quote has been posted several times on this board & discussed numerous times but apparently TEA doesn't know that...
I said this much, much earlier......I'm amazed that FDR kept his old buddy Henry in his Cabinet and inner circle as long as he did...
Henry was a "die hard" Wall Street banker and a Republican most of his life. He was not a loyal team player when it came to the New Deal.
He was a very bitter man once he was passed over for the Sec. of Agriculture slot & only after much thought took the Sec. of Treasury slot that FDR offered him....
The longer Henry was around, the bigger the problem he became.
His "Morgenthau Plan" might have actually extended the war in Europe once the German's found out about it....
If it didn't extend the war, it definitely increased the number of Allies soldiers killed and wounded... That was the belief held by General George Marshall.
The plan, once put in place, would have made post war Germany an agricultural country with very few industries... The word that Henry loved to use to describe post war Germany was "pastoral."
Henry wanted the German's put in a position that would prevent them from ever again going to war against anyone in Europe......keep in mind that Henry was Jewish & he was some what aware of what the Third Reich was doing in their "relocation camps."
Henry constantly tried to convince FDR to pull back from the "around the clock" bombing of German cities & other important military targets, and instead bomb instillation's close to the "relocation camps," thus making it more difficult for the Germans to carry out their "final solution to the Jewish problem."
FDR (with much encouragement from General George Marshall & Eleanor, the president's wife...) finally started leaving Henry out of the inner circle....
He was not briefed on a regular basis and was not part of the team that went to the Yalta Conference.
The future of post war Germany was one of the major topics discussed at the Yalta Conference...
It was at the Yalta Conference that the decision was made to divide Germany into four different sectors with each of the major allied powers controlling a sector....
Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Democrat Legislation:
Federal Deposit Insurance----1933
Securities and Exchange Act--1934
Fed. Home Loan Program-------1934
Social Security Act----------1935
Unemployment Compensation----1935
Rural Electrification Act----1936
40 hr. work week-------------1938
Minimum Wage Law-------------1938
Overtime Pay-----------------1938
Which of the above do you want the Fascist republicans to eliminate?
Viddi
Those are regulatory agencies.
I want all of them eliminated or reformed..
For Instance..Social Security..I know people who worked and paid into SS..and get about $800 a month while people who never worked or who have autistic children make $900+..
I am blind..I went blind in November suddenly. I have trouble spell checking..so bear with me.
I also have become acquainted with all the "social programs" for disabled people. There aren't any..not for working folks..
Army Corps of Engineers also were completely responsible for the Katrina disaster with the construction and allowed deterioration of faulty levees. Their malfeasance was shameful and directly led to unnecessary deaths.
But that is not the point. The point is that we live in a mixed economy and the pragmatic person would go with the best possible resource to handle the job. Sometimes that's a gov't role, sometimes that's a private industry role. Sometimes a combination of the two. Most liberals I know agree with this and have no problem at all allowing a private corporation handle a certain project, were they the best fit for that particular job. However there is not a teabagger alive that would ever choose the gov't to run something over a private corporation, and no compromise anywhere in between. Who is being more honest and pragmatic? Go ahead and disagree baggers, I know you will. Truth. Hurts.
JahReb
You are confused..
The "TeaBaggers" are liberal who watch CNN
The "Tea Party" are conservaties who watch Fox
The Tea Party wants the Banks to be regulated as Public Utilites
The Tea Baggers want more stimulus loans to Solyandra
I just loved this link so much that I wanted to share it with everyone.
http://www.politicususa.com/barack-obama...
I just know you will enjoy it as much as I did.
If Obama is reelected it will be the end of the United States as we know it...
Kepi:
Living in Hawaii..His grandmother was a bank president? Some middle class..
Obama lied in his autobiography. He has been called a liar by Hilary Clinton, Joe Wilson, One of the Supreme Court Justices...and the Washington Post..He has 4 pinnochios for his new ads about Bain..
When a person lies..I quit listening..
BTW..did anyone notice Obama intoning that the "Supreme Court has spoken, Lets move on."
Was he talking about "Citizens United?"
Mr. Malone I am sorry to hear about your blindness. I think I understand what you mean about Social Security. When I went to the SS office to sigh up I was amazed at the fact that I was the oldest one there by a lot. When it was my turn I asked the SS worker why that was and was told that they are applying for disability. I was also told that the amount of disability applications has increased dramatically in recent years.
jrtsr:
I mentioned the blindness only because I have trouble proofreading my posts..
I cannot work..but I have always had an unwavering faith in God..and God provides..
He maketh me to lie in green pastures, he leadeth me besides the cool water..surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
And the government is not providing one dime :)
It wasn't spending that ended the Depression. It was jobs. On December 6, 1941 there were 10 million men unemployed. Hard core unemployed for years. On Dec 7, and after, they joined the military to fight WW11. FDR had a peacetime draft with a cap of less than several hundred thousand soldiers. He swore he would never send American boys to fight on foreign soil. That all changed after Pearl Harbor was bombed.
And the wifes and women who stayed behind found jobs in companies supporting the war effort. It was WW11 that broke the back of the Depression. Not the New Deal programs.
Small businesses in the US create over 70 percent of all the new jobs created in the economy. They're not. Why? They are sitting on the sidelines afraid and watching and waiting. They lack confidence in the president and his policies to right the course of the ship of state.
CarmineD
Mr. Malone the point I was making about SS that so many seem to overlook the "freeloaders" that want something for nothing. My boys and I have a few friends that are local bartenders. People will use their EBT? cards to pay their bar bills. They will tell a bartender things that they would probable not tell anyone else. Many of them admit to scamming the system. They admit that it is easy to get assistance and do it for "pocket money". Yet when conservatives want to reduce the amount spent then they are called greedy.
I have helped many people in my life. I have given away automobiles, good furniture, a lot of food and of coarse money. The difference is that I knew the need of the person and the conditions of their problems. None of us would hand out money to anyone that has a story without being aware of the circumstances. Yet it is ok for the government to continue to do just that.
"U.S. headed down the wrong road"; not if Barack Obama is our President!
To everyone who may be reading the comments regarding the abovementioned article; please be aware that some of the comments may be written by people who are receiving compensation for posting their comments, which are posted every day! You may read some outrageous and even shocking comments posted here; again, almost every day, but please ignore those comments and find out the truth on your own. It is so easy to do so with access to the internet. This just may be the most important election of our lifetime. It is very important that we really understand the impact of our decision to our children and our grandchildren. I hope everyone takes their right to vote seriously and learns everything they can about the candidate they intend to support. I hope everyone makes their own decision; based on their own fact finding mission, not their better half, relatives, friends, church members, bloggers, news outlets, but what they have learned from their own research. We all have an opinion and I believe that we can learn from others, but we must research and vote for the candidate that we believe represents our best interest.
I have done my research for several years now. I voted for Barack Obama in 2008 and I will vote for President Barack Obama in 2012. I believe that our President IS headed down the RIGHT ROAD!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
jrtsr:
I agree with you. You do realize that most of the money for SSI, welfare and other programs is paid to the people who administer those programs..ie. social workers and clerks who can't or won't check every story. Around truck stops, the beggars are sent to the Trucker Chaplin on site for vetting..
I also agree that getting a government handout is easier than having faith and trusting in God. I was intrigued by the long hard road:
Lets Sing:
This highway she's harder than nine kinds of hell
The rides are as scarce as the rain
When you're down to your last shuck with nothing to sell
And too far away from the train.
Ride me down easy Lord, ride me on down
Leave word in the dust where I lay
Say I'm easy, come easy go
And easy to love when I stay
(Billy Joe Shaver)
How can anyone know if we are headed down the wrong road if they haven't a clue what the right road is?
I'm not so sure that medical advances that will allow people in my generation (the baby-boomers) to live significantly longer are such a good thing anymore.
kepi; Excellent post at 6:34 pm, and very good advise for the NV citizens.
Dipstick 11:43 a.m.
This is what I am talking about. You, again made me laugh so hard.
You are too funny and spot on!!!
Thank you for everything you do EVERYDAY :)
Thanks Vidi,
Thank you for everything you do everyday. I really like and appreciate the links you share with us.
:)
Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack
Republican Pete Sessions on Meet the Press/7/18/10:
"When it comes to GDP, employment, the stock market, or about any other measure of American Capitalism, the historical record is clear: The economy almost always does better under the Democrats."
Conservative Professor Stephen Bainbridge; "These days...the most prominent of the so-called conservatives are increasingly fit to be cast for the next "Dumb and Dumber sequel. They're dumb and crazy."
www.professorbainbridge.com
Republican Senator Chuck Hagel: "I do not see the republicans presenting any alternatives, any new options, or any new thinking. It's just no, no, no."
Bruce Bartlett, a former adviser to Reagan and Bush Sr. "I honestly think the republicans have been gripped by insanity, and the people who have known this, have kept their mouths shut for years." He doubted there were any republican leaders in Congress who could articulate traditional, sensible, conservative, republican policy.
British Conservative Prime Minister, David Cameron's business secretary, "Right wing nutters in the American Congress are the biggest threat to the world financial system."
Republican Senator Bob Bennett slammed the GOP for letting the tea party and Fox news lead it by the nose, "I find plenty of slogans on the republican side, but not very many ideas."
American Enterprise Institute's, Norm Ornstein, "GOP leaders are becoming the Bart Simpsons of Congress, gleeful at smarmy and adolescent tactics, but unwilling to get serious."
Carmine said:
"He (FDR) swore he would never send American boys to fight on foreign soil. That all changed after Pearl Harbor was bombed."
Actually that wasn't what FDR said.
He said he would not send American boys off to fight in a foreign war.
Once the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor and Hitler declared war on the United States, four days after Pearl Harbor, the war in the Pacific & the war in Europe were no longer a "foreign war."
Some people are very slow learners....
How many times does it have to be said that the New Deal program did not completely put the Great Depression to bed? 50?...maybe 100 times?....perhaps 200 times?
Maybe then & only then will certain posters understand what the recent discussion about the Great Depression was all about?
I earlier said:
"......FDR"s New Deal program did not completely end the Great Depression , but he did prevented a revolution from taking place, and his policies helped move the country forward."
Hmmmmm...that seems to be clearly understandable sentence, doesn't it?
I wonder what part of that statement is alien to certain posters?
Maybe I should write that statement in Sanskrit or in cuneiform?
Naw.....probably Latin is the way to go!
Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the Democrats saved capitalism from the Robber Baron Capitalists and the American people from destitution.
Where is the record of positive accomplishment by the radical extremist so-called republicans?
I am still waiting, waiting, waiting!
El_Lobo: These paid and unpaid bloggers for the miserable failure republicans do not want to see a truthful post, nor do they want to post the truth. They just repeat the lying talking points of their miserable failure masters, disrupt the discussion, and change the subject when they are losing miserably.
Vidi
You can wait wait wait..because you refuse to read read read..
Eisenhower
Eisenhower
Eisenhower..
add in Lincoln..Grant..Teddy Roosevelt and some other radical extremists..even Richard Nixon ended the Vietnam War that was started by Democrat
Grant ran one of the worst presidential administrations in history.
Teddy Roosevelt was not a Republican.
Richard Nixon never ended the Vietnam War, Ford did.
Eisenhower was a traditional Republican, as I mentioned, not a Fascist republican.
Where is the record of positive accomplishment of the radical extremist republicans.
You are right about Lincoln, but he was not a radical extremist so-called republican.
For all objective bloggers, please read:
'Weimar America,'
http://www.salon.com/2012/07/06/weimar_a...
xtra....
I have stated several times that one of the major problems with the present day Republican Party is the fact that the party has moved too far to the right..
Currently there's NO progressives in the GOP and very few moderates....
I have always been a fan of Teddy Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower and Abe Lincoln, all Republicans..
Each and every one of those men were either a progressive or a moderate...
They believed in compromise and they were willing to operate out side the box...
There's not a single Republican currently who fits that description..
Grant wasn't a very good president but an honest man. I admire his military leadership but not his presidency...
Nixon had his good points but "tricky" shot himself in the foot with his Watergate cover-up!
We could use a Teddy Roosevelt about now.....of course he would be forced to run as a Democrat because the extreme right-wingers would NEVER accept him....
What Teddy stood for is exactly what the Democrats stand for....
What can you say about Lincoln that hasn't already been said? He was a man who always did what was best for the country. He operated outside the box & was actually more of a Whig than a Republican...
Vidi:
Teddy Roosevelt was a Republican
Nixon ended the VietNam War
"The signing of the Paris Agreement in 1973"
El Lobo
Yunno..the reason I am considering voting for Romney is because he is not a bully pulpit party hack with an agenda and a vision..
I am heartily sick of agendas and visions from on high..I have my own..
I elect representatives who are take my vision and agenda to Washington and enact it into law.
The President is Chief Executive Officer..He is to faithfully execute the laws of Congress..elected by me..
Obama has had ONE cabinet meeting in six months..He meets with his campaign advisors every two weeks..He campaigns endlessly...
Obama cirumvents Congress..He has a vision..He executes his own agenda and the law and congress be damned..
Romney is an executive..I think he will execute the Constitution and the laws of Congress ..I think I prefer that for a change..
I would like to present a fairly simplistic view of political history, but I don't think my main points are far off the mark.
No rational person will deny that the Republican Party of today has strayed far from its roots. The party, when first formed, had a significant number of Whigs at its core. The Whigs of the early 1800s were formed as a response to what was seen as heavy handed actions by Andrew Jackson, who is responsible for most of the core beliefs of the Democrats, even til this day.
It is my belief that although there is no longer any gunfire (for the most part) the Civil is still being fought today. One should bear in mind that it was the Democrats of the day that wanted to punish the South, and the Republicans wanted to bring them back in as fully equal members of the Union.
It seems to me that today's Democrats have taken Jackson's view of having a government to protect the people to a new level, while the Republicans have lost sight of their Whigish roots and have allowed religion to overshadow their true Liberalism. (I blame Reagan for this.) Like others, I would present Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Ike and exemplars of the best of what the Republican Party stands for.
Classical Liberalism, as expressed in our Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, is something that almost no one today has heard of, let alone learned about in school or understands. It will be very difficult, if not impossible, to find the right road again until our people have relearned, and embraced once again, those principles.
botfx:
I will repeat.. I am so far left, I am right
I will also point out
The Tea Party (fox conservatives) want the banks regulated as public utilites
The teabaggers (cnn liberals) want stimulus loans to solyandra..
Old Hickory (Jackson) is the hero of the Republican Party..because he fought against a british model cental bank...stuff like income tax and federal reserve are not Jacksonian..Now just look at the scandal of the libbor
Get Ready For a Surprise in November!
Lets Sing:
Old Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise,
If we didn1t fire our muskets till we looked 'em in the eyes.
We held our fire till we seen their faces well,
Then we opened up our squirrel guns and gave 'em a little...Well....we...
(Johnny Horton, Battle of New Orleans)
M. Malone,
Careful where you point that gun...given your claim to functional blindness you are far more likely to shoot yourself or family or friends. Perhaps less hyperbole and more thought would help?
mschaffer:
Honest! Contrary to what Vidi wrote..Teddy Roosevelt was a Republican..
I have always preferred "hyperbole" to lies and ignoarnce..
But the last time someone accused me of hyperbole, Navistar w asverging on bankrupt...while paying a 10 million dollar penalty or is it a tax?
Do you want to know what the difference between a tax and a penalty is? The penalty "Poofs" disappears into the discretionary funds of the regulatory agency levying said "penalty"..A tax goes into the general fund..Do you think a regulatory agency might be making and enforcing onorous and burdensome regulations with an eye to collecting all that dough?
I leanred the information about the fine/penalty/tax..oh, it is a "penalty" because Catepillar is paying "penalties"to the State of California EPA...
Then again..California just nulllied Federal Law..also not Jacksonian
xtra,
You have to admit it would be interesting to hear what Jackson would say about SB1070 and the Dream Act. :)
I'm not really a fan of Andrew Jackson. I have always believed that historians have ranked him higher than what he deserves...
Actually Andrew Jackson unknowingly became the leader of a movement in this country that he, himself, did not give birth to or fully understand....
It's called Jacksonian Democracy.....
Jacksonian Democracy pushed the idea that government should be so simple in its make-up that anyone and everyone should be able to get elected and serve...
Jacksonian Democracy also believed in the use of the "spoils system" and the handing out of political favors (jobs) for people who helped you get elected.
One of the positive things about Jacksonian Democracy. however, is that thousands & thousands of people who had never voted before gained the right to vote.
Jackson became the hero of the common man and he was the first president elected to the White House from west of the Mississippi River.....
He hated the Bank of the United States and his dislike of the Bank, along with his complete ignorance of the monetary system led to the Panic of 1837...
He believed that the federal government was superior to the powers of the states in all situations and went out of his way to demonstrate that very thing...
He despised the career politicians and the big money people. He would do almost anything (go to any extreme) possible to reward his followers and punish his enemies....
He didn't always follow the Constitution and he believed that Native Americans were almost sub-human.
He was conceited and arrogant and he believed that the powers of the presidency were with out limits..
His cruel and arrogant Indian policy led to the "Trail of Tears" and the mass exodus of the five Civilized Tribes from their homes east of the Mississippi River to the Oklahoma territory...
He made sure Congress paid the Indians for the land that was taken from them, and then he billed those same Indians for their trip west....
He refused to work with the Whig Party in Congress and believed that compromise was below him....
His refusal to sign the bill re-chartering the Bank of the US caused not only the Panic of 1837 but forced thousands of home owners out of their homes....
He and his Vice-President (John C Calhoun) disagreed so much that his VP resigned his office and returned to his native state determined to oppose Jackson at every turn...
Jackson was nicknamed "King Andy" by his opponents and their dislike for Jackson brought about the formation of a new political party called the Whigs....
boftx said:
"One should bear in mind that it was the Democrats of the day that wanted to punish the South, and the Republicans wanted to bring them back in as fully equal members of the Union."
Sorry but I'm not sure where you got your information from. I disagree with you...
Have you ever heard of the "Peace Democrats?" They were determined to allow the South to quietly march out of the Union and never look back.
They wanted peace at any price....even if that called for recognizing Southern independence.
The Republicans, on the other hand, wanted to punish the South for its role in the war & the more agressive members of the GOP, the Radical Republicans, believed that the Southern states had commited "political suicide" by taking up arms against the federal government.
The Radical Republicans believed that the Southern states were no longer states but "conquered provinces."
Of course, the Radical Republicans divided the South into military districts with the Union army running the show...that's known as Southern Reconstruction......often called Radical Reconstruction!
Lincoln, before his death, had started pushing for a quick & "soft reconstruction" that allowed the Southern states to come back in the Union once they signed a loyalty oath to the federal government and elected members to Congress.
Once Lincoln was assassinated, however, that went out the window....the Radical in the GOP took over and a hard and unyielding reconstruction became the order of the day....
Have you ever heard of the expression, "The Solid South?" That's in reference to the fact that from the end of Reconstruction until the 1960's the South voted Democrat in all elections......
Robert......
Our country was headed down the wrong road during
the republican/bush/cheney years.
Anti-union republican greed DESTROYED our economy.
THAT'S THE TRUTH.
THAT'S WHAT KILLED OUR MIDDLE CLASS.
PRESIDENT OBAMA and the DEMOCRATIC PARTY now
have us on the correct path.
NO, we won't let Romney take us back to those
horrible republican years.
WE'RE NOT STUPID.
WE DIDN'T FORGET.
The crazy clown republican party has NEVER BEEN
THIS OUT OF TOUCH in our lifetime.
WE'RE KEEPING PRESIDENT OBAMA!
GET USED TO IT.
"If Obama keeps the spending and manages to convince enough people to support to his measures, we are surely traveling down the path of Greece, Spain and other nations now facing economic failure."
Interesting statement in light of the fact the EU went totally into austerity, cutting benefits, pensions, raising taxes, and more. They didn't follow what the U.S. did, and when faced with the lack of growth, zero now in many economies, they finally agreed that growth is a necessary part of the way out of the crisis, and part of the salvation of the EU...or the future U.S of Europe. Now they are doing more to bail out banks, and increasing their funds for sharing the responsibility to each other. Their is also some efforts to lighten up on the austerity demands.
The Great Recession/Depression and following problems are the result of banks and financial institutions high risk gambling, outsourcing of jobs to other countries, fewer jobs in the U.S., minimal growth in wages over the last 30 years, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, refusal to raise taxes, obstructionism by multiple parties on job creation, the encouragement to indebtedness of Americans beyond what they could afford to support consumerism, and the lack of savings by Americans. There are probably more reasons, but that is sufficient for now.
It isn't over yet and isn't likely to be over for at least another 5+ more years no matter who is President.
Taking an isolationist position is not going to help the U.S. in a time when there is increased effort to get ours and other trading partners to move to other agreements with China, and end trading in dollars.
The global economics are complex. We are part of a global community that is increasingly competing for what we have had for a long time, including access to resources.
Now, comes the TPP.
Another brick in the wall!
And the worst part of this is that these
republicans have learnrd NOTHING from the mess
that their own party made.
They even want to double -down on the same
stupidity that caused this mess.
Lucky for us,we out number these fools
and will out vote them in NOVEMBER.
We won't let republican liars, thieves and crooks
anywhere near the White House.
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!!!
DEMOCRATS FOREVER!!!
El_Lobo,
I must disagree with you as well. *After* the Civil War it was the Republicans, and in particular the "Radical Republicans," that wanted to have the freed slaves have equal status in every way. It was conservative Democrats in the South that tried to block their actions in Congress. I think that we are arguing at cross purposes for no good reason if we were to properly define our terms and premises.
My main point is that both parties have evolved in interesting ways from their founding. I would argue that the Democrats have taken Jackson's ideas to an extreme, while the Republicans have lost sight of the reason they came into existence and have exchanged their principles for dogma.
In both cases, neither party today has any idea of what the word "Liberalism" means in its true sense.
"Carmine said:
"He (FDR) swore he would never send American boys to fight on foreign soil. That all changed after Pearl Harbor was bombed."
Actually that wasn't what FDR said.
He said he would not send American boys off to fight in a foreign war.
El Robo Lobo:
After all these years, the memory isn't what it use to be. BUT the point was spot on. Some, in fact more with time, say FDR knew, or should have known, the Japanese were planning an attack. Why? Their ministers walked out of talks with the US just weeks before the bombing. This incident after a long and strained foreign relationship with Japan. They teach you that in your liberal rewriting of history textbooks?
CarmineD
Carmine said:
"Some, in fact more with time, say FDR knew, or should have known, the Japanese were planning an attack. Why? Their ministers walked out of talks with the US just weeks before the bombing..."
Sorry but you're attempting to tweak & cherrry pick facts...
Actually, the Sunday that the attack at Pearl Harbor took place (December 7th) the Japanese ministers were meetingt with our Secretary of State, Cordell Hull. They were meeting with Hull when Hull received the news of the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor...
Hull did what most people would have done in that situation...he dismissed the ministers but not before giving them a piece of his mind...
The very next day, FDR went before a joint session of Congress (December 8th) and ask for a declaration of war against the Japanese Empire...
Read more history Carmine.....Read a lot more history......you're very limited in your knowledge of this time period...
boftx....
I'm surprised that you continue to stand by your previous statement about the Republicans and their approach to reconstruction in the Southern states after the Civil War....
If Lincoln had lived, many historians believe that he could have put in place his plan for reconstruction...
Unfortunately that didn't happen...
Lincoln believed that the Southern states (unlike the Radical Republican belief)) had NEVER left the Union. They had merely, as he often said, acted like a small child and had run away from home.
The mother (Union) retrieved the runaway child, scolded the child and then carried the child back home in her loving arms.
Yes, the Radical Republicans treated the ex slaves with a great deal of empathy and understanding. They created several programs designed to help the ex slaves make the transition into freedom.
One of the more successful programs was the Freedman's Bureau which set up schools through out the South for the ex slaves....
The Radical Republicans however, showed absolutely no empathy toward southern whites and passed many laws restricting their rights.
Many whites in the South were denied the right to vote or hold public ofice.... Their property was often taken from them and they were treated as non citizens.
The Radical Republicans believed that the Southern states had lost their rights as a state by taking up arms against the federal government and, as a result, would have to apply for state hood all over again....
This is technically what happened. Radical Reconstruction didn't end until 1877. The Union army occupied the Southern states during most of that time and "home rule" didn't come about until the two political parties cut a deal due to the disputed presidential election of 1876...
Carmine....
Don't buy into the "big lie" stating that FDR knew that the Japanese were going to attack us at Pearl Harbor....
There's absolutely no proof of that....
Our military believed that the Japanese were up to something and if they did decide to attack US forces some place in the Pacific it would probably be in the Philippines or American held islands in the far Pacific.
We had been following the movements of the Japanese naval fleet for months and we believed that it would be impossible for the Japanese to move their naval fleet some 2000+ miles across open ocean with out us knowing about it...
We had also broken the Japanese code and had been listening to what they were saying for well over a year before the attack at Pearl Harbor.
In other words, we believed that a Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was almost impossible.... It simply wasn't going to happen!
The US bases in the Pacific had been put on alert but few people took the warning seriously. Our commanders at Pearl Harbor and in the Philippines believed that the biggest threat to us in those two areas was sabotage..by "fifth column" people...
At both Pearl Harbor and in the Philippines, air planes were moved close together, almost wing tip to wing tip, in an attempt to protect them from sabotage.
Once the Japanese attacked at both bases, that strategy proved to be fatal.......one Japanese bomb could wipe out ten American planes!
botfx:
My favorite President is Harry S. Truman.so he must be a Republican, right?
I didn't like Raygun..Must be the only Republican who doesn't but..he did advance our civilian communications with his star wars..satelites and such.
All that aside..We can look back through history, see alarger picture, realize that all our presidents were flawed men searching for a new truth..a Constitutional Republic..
That transcends party line..I salute and honor all of our presidents who are in the last analyis..public servants..and reflections of the public (republic) they served
BTW
I was wrong..at least partially in stating that the EPA "penalties" do not go to the Treasury. The penalties do..except some portion of the funds that are spent on internal programs..and some deals concerning "environmental justice" through the DOJ where the violator funds a project for the DOJ..
You can figure it out..
Justice Roberts stated that it was a tax on a legal choice..like cigarettes..only was a tax on not choosing..but the government cal..ls it a penalty
xtra: Sorry to hear that you've learned about Nevada social welfare systems. We do NOTHING for workers and former workers (other than pay a social security part B premium.) Yet we have endless programs for children, custodial parents, handicapped kids, people who get their kids labelled handicapped when they are not..... Thankfully SSDI is there for you, such as it is. I keep saying, with little support probably because others are not aware, that we do nothing for workers. Many posters seem to not realize how tough it is once your kids are grown or you are single--we are just ignoring the millions of long-term unemployed singles who are not old enough to "retire." And then when you retire, you might get about $1K a month SS. See how far that goes. ps for the "compassionate" whiners: I am not retired, not on SS and will probably never qualify for any social welfare program--I'm living off investments, living modestly to moderately--cause I had it so rough as a kid that I've saved. And I have a high IQ and have made some good investment decisions. Can't afford to support too many others but I can get by.
Roslenda:
I got lucky..or God smiled on me ..because there were various programs and investment opportunities over the years that were offered at my job..little things I had forgotten about..but when I suddenly didn't have an income..I dug it all out, added it up..and I have a fairly good income..enough to get by..enough for a roof over my head and food on the table..
I applied of the "free cheese" years ago..and the lady looked at me and said, "you don't qualify."
So I learned..and I got lucky..I don't need the government checks..but I did apply before I realized what all the little things added up to and the government won't give a dime. My treatments are paid for by a private charity until I can qualify for Medicare..
Roselende:
When the government cut off welefare..all the welfare moms were put on SSI. I know one woman who would scream at her kid if he showed any interest in reading..She would reward him if she heard he had caused a ruckus at school..He was labeled "attention deficit" and she was paid for "diabled" child.
Another one.. a relative of mine.. I found him on the internet..another..attention deficit kid..on ritlan all of his life..encouraged to "display his symptoms" and given attention for bad behavior...He is grown up now..I found his mug shot. He is a skin head covered in tattoos whose only job skills are physical intimidation. He is self employed as a drug dealer..and spends quite a bit of time in various prisons..but hey, mom got paid..never worked a day in her lazy life..
Xtra: Would like to see your 5:20 post or similar on some other articles--so many dependent people accuse us of lacking the "compassion" that they have, while they collect and collect from government programs. Like K-12 teachers crying for ever more funding 'cause they have to "focus" on all the needs of deprived kids (illegals who get free breakfast and lunch--teachers take time out from teaching to have food drives.) Told them that any number of teachers have told me about seemingly normal kids with parents who pursued getting them labelled with ADD or Autism. And now the State is falling for it and gearing up legislation and funding while depriving the long-term unemployed adults who have paid in for years. Makes no sense to keep encouraging those who won't and those who can't while discouraging those who have worked and paid and paid and paid. Almost funny. Like the illegal high school students who are going into social work--they seem to think they can authorize more funding for illegal kids "cause their needs are not being met."
"Actually, the Sunday that the attack at Pearl Harbor took place (December 7th) the Japanese ministers were meetingt with our Secretary of State, Cordell Hull. They were meeting with Hull when Hull received the news of the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor..."
That was a subterfuge El Lobo Robo to catch the US with their pants down so the Japanese could bomb Pearl Harbor on a Sunday while the US troops were asleep in their bunks.
I read history. And I comprehend it. I know a subterfuge by a foreign power in a strained relationship with the US for decades before bombing the US. The Japanese were and still are notorious for this kind of behavior. Where have you been all your life? Watching MTV?
CarmineD
Here you go El Robo Lobo:
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/pearl_harbor.ht...
Connect the dots together.
CarmineD
Roselenda:
There is nothing new under the sun..In Charles Dickens time, people would cripple children and put them out on the street to beg.
Americans, no matter how poor, used to have pride.
I don't know what the answer is..
I guess you get what you pay for..
It appears Mr. Latchford is a psychic too.
Hey Carmine I took your suggestion and traced the dots....
Guess where that led me? I arrive at the door step of a guy named Robert E Stinnett, a very devoted revisionist historian.
I'm not sure but I believe he works full time for FOX NEWS and part time for Rush Limbaugh.....
Despite all the valid information that's out there about the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor & the fact that FDR DID NOT with hold information from his commanders, both Mr. Stinnett and you say something differently....Why is that?
In Stinnett's book, "Day of Deceit," he claims that FDR and General George Marshall knew that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and they decided to keep the information to themselves....
Darn that FDR! Darn that General Marshall.....Why did they do that? What was FDR thinking? Didn't he love his country?
Maybe FDR just wanted to go to war and see how many American boys could be sacrificed?
Maybe the military industrial complex was paying huge sums of money to FDR under the table. After all, the military-industrial complex was already making big bucks from the Lend Lease program ......
Maybe FDR wanted to have a reason to go to war which would allow him to give unlimited aid to the Brits who were led by his buddy, Winston Churchill?
Maybe FDR wanted to go to war in order to, once & for all, put the Great Depression to bed?
Maybe FDR, a 33rd degree Mason, wanted war which would give he and his other Mason buddies the chance to win a world war & establish one government for the entire planet?
That's pretty much what Robert Stinnett says in his book...
All joking aside....go read the book "At Dawn We Slept" by Gordon Prange. It's the top book out there on the Pearl Harbor attack.
Prange, a long time and well respected historian, took research from his 37 years as a World War II writer and came up with the best seller...
The book covers every aspect of the Pearl Harbor attack & gives an excellent history of the relationship that existed between the Japanese and the Americans dating back before the 1922 Washington Naval Conference.
The book also spends time on the Congressional Committee investigation that did a massive amount of inquiry about the attack and who, if anyone, was responsible for allowing the attack to take place...
Guess what? The committee gave FDR a clean bill of health....in other words, they found no evidence that FDR knew of or with held information from his military leaders about a possible Japanese attack on Pearl...
Face it my little Italian puppet maker with a long, long nose, you're again "cherry picking & tweaking history. You have nothing that might factually prove that FDR was guilty of ignoring the facts & allowing the Japanese to attack Pearl..
Hey, Prange's book, "At Dawn We Slept," is in all of the local libraries plus I have my own copy and I will loan my copy to you if you want to read the book...
Remember....the truth will set you free!!
El Lobo Robo:
Your historical naivete is matched only by your blind acceptance of high school text book history.
CarmineD
Here is an excerpt from a review of Prange's book by Gaddis Smith, a teacher at Yale for American Diplomatic and Maritime History.
Sounds like the Yale instructor supports my posts to you about Japan's subterfuge by meeting with US during the Pearl Harbor bombing and catching the US with their pants down. And the long strained relationship between Japan and the US for decades prior to the attack. All dismissed at the highest levels of the US gov't, inlcuding FDR.
''At Dawn We Slept'' adds some details to what was previously known about the American side and includes a useful if anticlimactic appraisal of the many American investigations into what happened, but here the main outlines of a familiar story remain unchanged. Failures of imagination, excessive adherence to routine, bad coordination and communication between Washington and Pearl Harbor and between Army and Navy, and bad luck contributed to the debacle. Almost everyone involved must share some of the blame, though almost all were hardworking men doing their best within their own limitations and the limitations of the system.
Prange is sympathetic in his criticism, but his conclusion is clear, if not comforting. In a summary chapter called ''The Verdict of History,'' Prange analyzes carefully what the American military commanders knew at the time of the attack and how they misunderstood what they knew. These failures to realize ''at all levels'' what their intelligence information really might have meant ''have a common denominator - the gap between knowledge of possible danger and belief in its existence,'' he writes, ''... yet it would be a mistake of the first magnitude to credit the success of the Pearl Harbor operation solely to American errors. We have seen how meticulously the Japanese perfected their planning; how diligently they trained their pilots and bombadiers; how they modified weapons to achieve maximum damage; how persistently they dredged up and utilized information about the U.S. Pacific Fleet. They balked at no hazard, ready to risk a wild leap to achieve their immediate ends.'' In other words, when Americans argue about placing blame for Pearl Harbor they should recognize that the enemy was real, and, in Prange's view, first class. "
CarmineD
FYI on Mr. Stinnett
"Robert B. Stinnett is a Research Fellow at The Independent Institute and the author of Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor (Free Press). He served in the U.S. Navy from 1942 to 1946, where he earned ten battle stars and a Presidential Unit Citation.
He has worked as a journalist and photographer for the Oakland Tribune, and he is a consultant on the Pacific War for the BBC and for Asahi and NHK Television in Japan. In 1986, he resigned his position at the Tribune to devote himself full-time to the extensive and painstaking research through the Freedom of Information Act that was necessary to produce his book, Day of Deceit, and other work. He is also the author of the book, George Bush: His World War II Years."
CarmineD
Note Robo Lobo Stinnett's book post dates Prange's. Stinnett's is more current. Time reveals truth.
CarmineD
Carmine....
The truth shall set you free & you're a long, long way from being free...
Carmine said:
"Note Robo Lobo Stinnett's book post dates Prange's. Stinnett's is more current. Time reveals truth."
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Right, and does that include recent research and new information about the Bible?
Your statement is about the weakest attempt at validity (coming from you that) I have ever seen....
Stinnett is nothing more than a "revisionist historian."
I'm glad that you FINALLY found some one that you can grab a hold of and travel down that same "revisionist road" with...
O'Reilly and Hannity also travel down that same road but both aren't versed enough in history to receive any actual credibility...Oop's I think I just described you...
Carmine, you remind me of a blind dog in a meat house......sooner or later, that blind dog gets lucky and finds a bone.....of course it's a very small bone with no meat on it but who cares?
Certainly not you!
Carmine....
I think it great that you NOW have a hero (Robert Stinnett) that you can praise, read what he writes, & believe everything that he says....
Of course, as I said earlier, Mr. Stinnett is nothing more than a "revisionist historian." but to some one, such as you, that's a pretty big deal..
To make matters even better, Mr Stinnett has written a book condemning one of your all-time enemies....Franklin Roosevelt!
In an effort to keep the playing field level and the debate equal, (actually, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt...) I'm going to do what you did...
I'm going to list a few accomplishments of the man who I believe has written the best book ever on the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.....Gordon Prange!
"Gordon William Prange (July 16, 1910 -- May 15, 1980) was the author of several World War II-historical manuscripts which were published by his co-workers after his death in 1980. Dr. Prange was a Professor of History at the University of Maryland from 1937 to 1980 with a break of nine years (1942--1951) of military service overseas, and in the postwar era of military occupation of Japan, when he was the Chief Historian in General Douglas MacArthur's staff.[1] It was during this time that Prange collected material from and interviewed many Japanese military officers, enlisted men, and civilians, with the information later being used in the writing of his books. Several became New York Times bestsellers, including At Dawn We Slept and Miracle at Midway."
More to come.....
Also....
"The University of Maryland's Web site contains this information about Professor Prange:
"Gordon W. Prange was born in Pomeroy, Iowa, on July 16, 1910. He studied at the University of Iowa, receiving his Ph.D. in 1937. That same year, he began his teaching career as a professor of history at the University of Maryland. In 1942, he was granted a leave of absence from the University to embark on a wartime career as an officer in the United States Navy. He was sent to Japan in 1945 as a member of the American Occupation Forces. He completed his Navy service soon thereafter, but continued in Japan as a civilian from 1946 to 1951 as the chief of General Douglas MacArthur's 100-person historical staff. When censorship of the Japanese media by Allied Forces was lifted in 1949 and the Civil Censorship Detachment disestablished, Professor Prange, recognizing the historical significance of the CCD material, arranged for its shipment to the University of Maryland. The materials arrived at the University in 1950. On September 15, 1978, the Board of Regents of the University of Maryland passed a motion to name the collection the "Gordon W. Prange Collection: The Allied Presence in Japan, 1945-1952."
Professor Prange continued to teach at the University of Maryland until several months before his death on May 15, 1980. He is still remembered by alumni as one of the University's truly great teachers, and is well known today for major works on the war in the Pacific, particularly At Dawn We Slept, The Untold Story Of Pearl Harbor."
And.....
The following books were written by Gordon W. Prange, with Donald M. Goldstein and Katherine V. Dillon:
--At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor (1981), ISBN 0-07-050669-8
--Miracle at Midway (1982), ISBN 0-07-050672-8
--Target Tokyo: The Story of the Sorge Spy Ring (1984), ISBN 0-07-050677-9 in which the authors detail the undercover operations of the spy ring headed by Richard Sorge and Hotsumi Ozaki that conveyed highly-secret information from Tokyo to the Soviet Union between 1933 and 1941
--Pearl Harbor: The Verdict of History (1986), ISBN 0-07-050668-X
--December 7, 1941: The Day the Japanese Attacked Pearl Harbor (1988), ISBN 0-07-050682-5
--God's Samurai: Lead Pilot at Pearl Harbor (1990), ISBN 0-08-037440-9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Pran...
xtra: That's part of the reasoning behind my insistence that I pick my charities, you pick yours. If the dependents want more handouts, let them give to each other. My support varies but I tend to prefer talented individuals with limited opportunities, seniors who have worked and supported our way of life, people who give back / don't expect me to do for them. As in yesterday, I went out of my way to give an adjustable cane to a women who says hers was stolen. I didn't quibble or ask anything. Actually, I offered her several other items.