Las Vegas Sun

July 28, 2014

Currently: 81° — Complete forecast | Log in | Create an account

Trayvon Martin tragedy reverberates in Nevada

Las Vegas forum addresses racial profiling, state’s self-defense law that is similar to Florida’s

Image

Sam Morris

Students and other interested parties listen to a panel discussion about the killing of Trayvon Martin at UNLV Tuesday, April 10, 2012.

Trayvon Martin Panel

Attorney Richard Boulware speaks during a panel discussion about the killing of Trayvon Martin at UNLV Tuesday, April 10, 2012. Launch slideshow »
Click to enlarge photo

Yango Sawyer, right, joins a crowd to rally in front of a Department of Justice office, calling on justice for Trayvon Martin, Monday, March 26, 2012, in Washington.

The circumstances surrounding the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin have wide-reaching implications and lessons for the Las Vegas community, panelists at a UNLV forum Tuesday night said.

The case of the 17-year-old Florida teenager who was shot to death in February by a neighborhood watch captain has galvanized the nation, sparking protests and hoodie gatherings in opposition to Florida’s controversial “stand your ground” law. Nevada has a similar self-defense law, which justifies the use of deadly force without any obligation to first retreat from conflict.

Nearly 100 graduate and law students attended the UNLV forum, held in the Moot Courtroom at the Boyd Law School and organized by the Black Graduate Student Association and the Black Law Student Association. The forum was held to examine the various legal and societal issues surrounding the case and look at ways students can prevent similar incidents from happening again.

A diverse range of panelists proffered their opinions on the Martin case from legal, journalistic and sociological perspectives. The conversation was engaging and frank at times, and delved into complex issues such as racial profiling and self-defense laws.

During the 2011 legislative session, Nevada passed its “stand your ground” law, which went into effect in October. According to the Legal Community Against Violence, Nevada is one of 25 states with a self-defense law that allows the use of deadly force when an individual feels an eminent and reasonable threat to their life without an obligation to first stand down or retreat.

While Nevada’s self-defense law is similar to Florida’s in that there is no duty to retreat before standing one’s ground against an attack, the burden of proof remains with the defendant in Nevada, said Addie Rolnick, a UNLV law professor.

That’s not the case in Florida, where a legal provision prohibits police from prosecuting and even arresting an individual who claims a “justifiable homicide” under the “stand your ground” law, Rolnick said. The burden of proof in Florida lies with the prosecution, she said.

“Florida gives blanket deference to what anyone says,” Rolnick said, noting that self-defense laws have been expanded over the years.

Many in the black community have argued that race played a pivotal role in Martin’s death. George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who shot Martin, is Hispanic. Martin was black.

In a 911 tape, Zimmerman is heard calling Martin “suspicious” and saying he looks like he may be “up to no good.”

Before the forum began, organizers played a YouTube video produced by Howard University law students. In the 2 1/2-minute video, male students at the historically black college dressed in black hoodies posed the question, “Do I look suspicious?”

While some may shy away from this reality, there are implicit and subconscious psychological biases tied to one’s “blackness,” which may include danger or being suspect, Rolnick said.

Rainier Spencer, an Afro-American Studies professor at UNLV, said he agreed with Rolnick’s assessment.

“We can’t and won’t say it, but everyone is afraid of the young, black man, right?” he said, to nods from the mostly black audience.

The bias stems from societal and media portrayals of blacks and it goes back to the days of slavery, Rolnick said. Blacks are also often seen as being expendable, because historically they have been characterized by an absence of rights and personhood, she said.

A death of a black slave — considered 3/5th of a white person when the United States was founded — wasn’t considered a loss of life, but of property, Rolnick said. Even though that worldview has been legally struck down, it still exists in the subconscious, she said, citing research that found fewer black homicides than white homicides led to the death penalty.

Click to enlarge photo

Brandon Johnson, 12, attends a "hoodie" gathering at Raw Remedies, a therapeutic beauty boutique at 203 East Colorado St. near Charleston and Casino Center boulevards Sunday, March 25, 2012. People, many wearing hooded sweatshirts, came seeking justice for 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, a high school student who was shot and killed February 26 in Sanford, Fla.

Regardless of the societal biases, it shouldn’t matter that Martin looked suspicious, argued Allen Lichtenstein, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union. Lichtenstein said he was critical of the Howard University students for asking what he perceives to be the wrong question: “Do I look suspicious?”

“It’s wrong because it doesn’t matter if someone looks suspicious,” Lichtenstein said. “You are allowed to look suspicious.”

Lichtenstein criticized law enforcement’s use of “Terry stops,” whereby police can briefly detain someone if an officer has “reasonable suspicion” that someone is, has or is about to commit a crime.

“Cops couldn’t have stopped (Martin) legally,” he said. “And a citizen couldn’t have either.”

Legally, police are only able to stop someone on actions alone, and never based on race, gender, age and other physical characteristics. However, a study of Terry stops in New York City found that police there were stopping minorities in disproportionate numbers to their overall population, Lichtenstein said.

Lichtenstein sees these stops as an open invitation for racial profiling, and would like to see Las Vegas police begin to collect and release data on these stops.

Regardless, research shows that the public — even among minority communities — hold police departments in high regard, said William Sousa, an UNLV criminal justice professor. That’s true, even in Las Vegas, he said, where police have been criticized for the use of deadly force.

Lawrence Mower, a reporter with the Las Vegas Review-Journal, outlined the newspaper’s findings from its series “Deadly Force: When Las Vegas Police Shoot, and Kill.”

Although the black population in Las Vegas constitutes just 10 percent of the general population, more than a third of officer-involved shootings were of blacks, Mower said. About half of unarmed people who were shot by police officers were black, he added.

“These were startling statistics to us,” Mower said. “The data was pretty telling.”

Richard Boulware, a local attorney and vice president of the local chapter of the NAACP, said Las Vegas is one of a few major metropolitan areas that doesn’t have a major oversight board for its police. Boulware said he would like to see local and state laws amended so that the Las Vegas community can better address racial profiling.

But Boulware also sympathized with police. Oftentimes, police departments are reacting to community concerns, which may be rooted in stereotypes and racial biases, he said. Someone who doesn’t “belong” in a community may be investigated because police feel an obligation to its community to react, Boulware said.

However, in the Martin case, Boulware was critical of the “provocation” clause of Florida’s self-defense laws. Both Nevada and Florida self-defense laws state that one cannot invoke the “stand your ground” clause if he or she initiates a physical altercation.

In a 911 tape, Zimmerman is heard being advised by the operator not to pursue Martin. Zimmerman did not heed the operator’s direction, Boulware said.

“He inherently created a violent situation by chasing after Trayvon,” Boulware said, although noting that Zimmerman claims Martin provoked an attack. “Who was the one who initiated and provoked the incident?”

Colin Seale, a third-year law student, said he thought the forum was informative. Seale said he was wary of law enforcement after hearing about high-profile officer-involved shootings while growing up in New York.

Seale said that since he was 10 years old, he’s had “the talk” with teachers and family members who warned him to dress and act a certain way around police to avoid being caught up in an officer-involved shooting. Appearance should not matter, but it matters, he said.

“It’s scary that I’m scared of the police,” Seale said, adding that he addresses police officers with “sir” and avoids wearing baggy pants. “It doesn’t seem right.”

Carrie Sampson, president of the UNLV Black Graduate Student Association, said she was pleased by the student turnout. She said she hoped the forum offered engaging dialogue on the issues surrounding the Trayvon Martin case, and said that they may hold a similar forum in the future.

“It’s clear that this case brought about a lot of emotions and sparked people’s interest,” Sampson said. “We wanted to raise awareness that institutional racism isn’t just an issue in Florida, but across the nation.”

Join the Discussion:

Check this out for a full explanation of our conversion to the LiveFyre commenting system and instructions on how to sign up for an account.

Full comments policy

Previous Discussion: 31 comments so far…

Comments are moderated by Las Vegas Sun editors. Our goal is not to limit the discussion, but rather to elevate it. Comments should be relevant and contain no abusive language. Comments that are off-topic, vulgar, profane or include personal attacks will be removed. Full comments policy. Additionally, we now display comments from trusted commenters by default. Those wishing to become a trusted commenter need to verify their identity or sign in with Facebook Connect to tie their Facebook account to their Las Vegas Sun account. For more on this change, read our story about how it works and why we did it.

Only trusted comments are displayed on this page. Untrusted comments have expired from this story.

  1. BChap...

    Thoughtful, well-penned commentary.

    As to 'Stand Your Ground' laws...

    Whether here, in Florida, or Anywhere, USA, it will NEVER cover the actions of a George Zimmerman.

    'YOUR GROUND' is not an ever-shifting location...
    you simply will never be able to chase down a guy to question 'what he's doing in your hood', and when you finally catch up to said person, consider THAT the 'ground you stand on' for purposes of protection from murder or manslaughter charges when your gun discharges and kills someone.
    That is IMBECILIC on it's face.

  2. The important thing to know is that Obama looks like Trayvon. He said so himself. That's all that matters and that means we must vote for Obama because he looks like Trayvon.

  3. To back up BChap's point, this law in Nevada is really too much, too soon.

    From everything seen so far, and Uniform Crime Report (UCR) statistics actually confirm, violent crime is down in Nevada. This is actually a feather in the hat on crime prevention tactical successes for law enforcement here in Nevada.

    But NRA lobbyists will have none of that. They have to play upon fears and paranoia to get a law passed to address a problem. A problem that doesn't exist. A convenient solution to make people feel safer and to defend themselves. The NRA lobby in Nevada snookered everyone. Just like they did in 24 other States.

    That's fine NRA wants to sell guns. They always do what they want without anyone stopping them. After all, this is America. But to make up stuff in order to sell them?

    Also, now that this law is enacted in Nevada, there seems to be no requirements to make people aware of it. No education.

    With the "home is your castle" style from before, it was basically common sense and more than adequate. You feel threatened by a home invasion, and you feel deep down in your soul they are intending to harm you, you are fully authorized to use just enough deadly force in order to ensure your safety.

    Now, there's this law that can take place anywhere. And the knowledge and intricacies of this law are wayyyyyy beyond anyone's perception. Stay where you are, draw your weapon, if in doubt, go ahead shoot, we'll figure it out later in court, don't retreat at all, don't de-escalate the situation, show them bastards who is the boss, I got a State law that has my back.

    That's a drastic example, but it points out the trouble with this law where it feeds paranoia and gives people false perceptions about the law. They seem to imply to turn the other cheek is not an option. This law will be more problems than it's worth.

    Police and security are constantly trained on deadly force (also, they have to be certified in the use of it every six months as per Nevada State law).

    But you throw this law out there, let the average person buy guns and say, oh hell, don't worry about the law, just do your thing? That's madness.

    This law was created by the NRA lobbyists, feeding off of peoples' fears in order to sell guns. They say, be afraid, be very afraid, and here, buy our guns. This is promoting outright paranoia. Basically a solution to a problem that simply does not exist.

  4. In my opinion the most important part of this story needs repeating:

    Both Nevada and Florida self-defense laws state that one cannot invoke the "stand your ground" clause if he or she initiates a physical altercation.

    In a 911 tape, Zimmerman is heard being advised by the operator not to pursue Martin. Zimmerman did not heed the operator's direction, Boulware said.

    "He inherently created a violent situation by chasing after Trayvon," Boulware said, although noting that Zimmerman claims Martin provoked an attack. "Who was the one who initiated and provoked the incident?"

  5. No one has a clue concerning the details of the Trayvon Martin killing. To date there is only a media trial. We will see what actually happened when people are under oath giving testimony in an actual courtroom prosecution. Until then it is all about politics.

  6. True, jazzy13. I say let the courts decide what's going on, not the media.

    I do hope something happens soon though. The more this goes on like it's going on now, the longer it festers on the national stage.

    I do make a prediction though.

    Since Mr. Zimmerman has left the State (hell, he might be in Las Vegas holed up in a hotel room with cheap hookers or something for all we know) and has ditched his attorneys by remaining incommunicado, his strategy has been revealed for all to behold.

    Since he contacted Fox News and seems to feel he has friends there, more so than legal experts, he has willingly signalled he fully intends to pursue pleading In Hannity.

  7. A neighborhood watch person does not have the right to 'resolve' anything. He has the right to observe and report, not resolve, that's the Policeman's job. A citizen who attempts to 'resolve' would be called a vigilante.

  8. State law cannot override our inalienable and constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Perhaps some people have figured out now that defending yourself physically is not without consequences but the alternative is injury or death. Let's not leap to the conclusion that anyone is out stalking or looking to kill so they can claim self defense. That's just now how it works. Sure felons in the act of another violent crime may claim self defense when they have no excuse for their behavior. But reasonable adults defending self might not have law enforcement or legal backgrounds and might not follow every facet of every possibility to allow a perpetrator every last chance to get away with it again and again. So a few perps lose. That's life, for the rest of us. And as a former juror on several occasions I will NOT CONVICT anyone with anything close to a reasonable fear. I just don't care if the bad guy loses. I recall the young Asian student (Louisiana?) who was shot and killed by a homeowner. The student was on his way to a Halloween party and got lost. He scared the residents by pounding on the front door, perhaps "staking out" the property, and was dressed like a tough guy. The homeowner's were within their rights. A tragedy but things happen. People cannot force their way into what they want to do without considering the other people along the way. Trayvon showed no concern for the residents, the entire neighborhood, nor for Z. He might not have gone looking for a fight but he seems to have initiated one--based on his attitudes, physical size, lack of experience, and unwillingness to allow the other guy his space, HIS SPACE.

  9. Lynn: Z was known to NOT RESOLVE ANYTHING EVER--he kept calling law enforcement. Habitual caller. There is NO EVIDENCE THAT HE TRIED TO RESOLVE ANYTHING.

  10. Did Z follow Trayvon or did Z walk around the neighborhood going the other direction and then ran into Trayvon again?

  11. Roslenda: My comment about resolving was in response to TomD1228's comment "I don't think the dispatcher has any legal authority to enforce this. If he had never spoken to the dispatcher and pursued Trayvon with the intention to question him (as a neighborhood watch person)...and if during the questioning TM became angry about being confronted and decided to make it a physical confrontation....then what? Was the initial confrontation between the two men resolved?"

    I should have made that clearer in my original comment.

  12. "red flags"?... Ok,if the basis of Zimmerman's suspicions are based on Martin's dress, then he has no ground. The kids had a hoodie on...that is sensible dress since it was raining! He wasn't being interviewed for a job. He was walking and talking on the phone. And since mentioned has been made about dress, Zimmerman was in plain, regular clothes. If someone in regular clothes initiates an aggressive line of questioning and does not identify himself/herself or show proof of being something/someone like..oh I dont know...say a "police officer", the SAFEST course of action would be to run if all you have is a cell phone and bag of Skittles to defend yourself! Too many psycho's out there trying to be cops!!

  13. @NVFisherman...With all due respect you don't know what you are talking about. "What happened in Florida has absolutely nothing to do with Nevada. You need to go back to journalism school. You are creating a sensational piece without any basis in fact." Paul wrote a story about a meeting and what was discussed at that meeting. Perhaps you should go back to second grade and learn to read.

    @lovinglife.."The important thing to know is that Obama looks like Trayvon. He said so himself."
    Actually he didn't. And no one but you thinks that, "we must vote for Obama because he looks like Trayvon."

    But then why should we expect any type of intelligent rhetoric from a self-professed pedophile.

    The cops need to lock you up and go through every inch of every computer you ever touched.

    @tomd "There's no one on this board who wants to walk down a street and see 3 hooded inviduals walking in their direction..."

    Wrong, I would have no issue with that at all. But then I'm not a coward. I see dozens of people in hoodies every time I hit the slopes and I am not busting caps on my way down the black diamonds.

    "A hoodie is not appropriate in a job interview nor is it appropriate in Las Vegas when it's 85 degrees out." I'll buy that, but what about in the rain? Because that's when Martin had his hood pulled up.

    @LV-24...."Ask the lady a few months ago that shot the home intruder trying to force his way into her home if shes[sic] for revoking the stand your ground law"

    Okay, but as long as she is smarter than you she would know that the Stand your Ground law has nothing to do with her protecting herself in her own home.

  14. @TomD1228.....Speak for yourself. As a white female, it would not bother me to be around a group of people wearing hoodies. These days most sweatshirts have hoods attached. I have a bathrobe with a hood. My husband even has a Burberry hoodie. You have assigned much of your own fear on to a stupid piece of clothing.

  15. @Bob_Realist (Bob Realist). " During the million hoodie march a white man was beaten into a coma by two black men with a hammer. He remains in a local hospital on life support"

    That is true. The Orlando Sentinal, the paper that refused to let the Zimmerman shooting die, reported the incident here (http://goo.gl/caQ5M), Notice the first line in the report, "A tip to Crimeline has led to the arrests of two men in a brutal beating that occurred a week ago in the Midway community east of Sanford."

    They were arrested. Zimmerman was not.

    "How many people have heard of the 85 year old woman brutally raped and murdered by two black men in Oklahoma? How about her 90 year old husband who was beat just for good measure? The media must have an agenda."

    I have and oddly enough the suspect in that murder was also arrested. Zimmerman was not.

    The media does have an agenda, and that's to keep people buying papers or tuning in. And right now the story about a man pursuing and killing a teenager without being charged has caught the public's attention.

    You want to make an argument about race bias in the media using the Martin homicide, then find the story of where the adult black man kills the teen-age boy on his way home and is not arrested.

    If that were to ever happen it would be a huge story. Because a black man escaping arrest for killing a white guy in self-defense is less likely that a black man being elected President.

    In fact, the black teacher from Florida who defended himself from the out of control drunk white guy was....you guessed it....arrested.

  16. The Washington Post is reporting Zimmerman will be charged and arrested http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/g...

  17. The NRA & Stand Your Ground...

    A match made in Hell.

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/201...

    These 'shoot first' laws are now on the books in twenty-some states, (thanks in large part to the NRA's lobby) and today comes a call to REPEAL these bad laws nationwide.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypo...

    BChap shared some very well-thought-out reasoning as to 'why' these laws are WAY MORE TROUBLE than society is prepared to live with at this time.

    Some have misinterpreted 'stand your ground' as 'get out of jail free' cards...

    There have been quite a few 'gun nut' types that have posted comments about how they 'wish they would have the opportunity' to put a cap in someone they feel threatened by...
    If you've never killed a human and think you're gonna do it and not suffer any repercussions, either self-inflicted or from law enforcement, (or BOTH) you are living in fantasyland.
    Like George Zimmerman.

  18. @By TomD1228''"When you throw a punch at a guy with his hands in his pockets, yes you might get arrested."

    Really? Because cops shoot people in this town for simply reaching into their empty pockets all the time. Law Enforcement has deemed that dangerous action. I guess you would rather have Hawkins get shot by the gun the drunk may have had in his pocket and then swung?

    But you are spot on that the only relevant question is "Was GZ walking back to his car when he was punched from behind by TM? (as he has claimed)."

    Since we only have FZ's word we have to determine his trustworthiness. Since he lied twice to police that we know of that night. Had made numerous bogus 911 calls reporting dangerous characters, some as young as 7. Since he has continued to lie to the public through his family, I see an uphill battle getting anyone to take a woman beater who assaults cops at his word.

  19. curious...I'm not a lawyer so what is the legal definition of physical aggression if there is one? If Zimmerman pursued Martin, can that be considered physical aggression? If so, does Martin have the right to address that aggression before becoming a victim of physical assault that could result in even death? Or does Martin have to wait to be hit or shot first in order to respond to Zimmerman's aggression? Provoking thoughts/opinions not criticizing...

    and rusty57 I hope you were being sarcastic. Of all the media companies and agents that exist, Fox is the worst. Garbage company and network!

  20. In my opinion this case will come down to the timeline. Only 2 minutes from the time Zimmerman left his car to the shooting. How far away from his car was Martins body found? The gunshot is time stamped on a 911 call, the timestamps from Zimmermans 911 call, and all the others from 911 calls. If one can only conclude that Zimmerman chased and caught Martin by the distance from his car, that would be very damning evidence.

    This is why it was absolutely necessary to charge and arrest Zimmerman, so a trial brings out all the facts. I've seen nobody calling for a conviction, just that there is enough evidence to charge and have a trial.

  21. It is best to wait till the evidence comes out before assuming Zimmerman attacked and shot an unarmed man. From many accounts he was attacked and shot the man Martin in self defense, so who do you believe> NBC?
    Martin was old enough to be tried in adult court, he was not the 12 year old boy they show in the pictures.

  22. Murder 2...

    I guess the facts have spoken to the prosecutor of Florida.

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-cha...

  23. "The bias stems from societal and media portrayals of blacks and it goes back to the days of slavery".

    What a bunch of garbage. The bias comes from the statisitical facts that while young black males account for 4% to 7% of the population (Census Bureau 2012), depending on the metro area involved, they account for 25% to 75% of the violent crime in those same areas (DOJ, FBI, Uniform Crime Statistics, and local police crime reports) . Amazing you don't see the fear, anger, and hatred towards young males who are white, jewish, asian, or even hispanic. Is that a coincidence? I think not. Why doesn't the black leadership get outraged over the daily shootings in so many black communities, or the 70% out-of-wedlock birthrate, or the abysmally high drop out rate in the high schools and colleges for young blacks? Now, before you go off with your "racist" or "prejudiced" idiot comments, I must inform you that I live in a nice mixed ethnic community, my son was married to a delightful black girl, and about 20% of my patients were decent black folks. I do not have any problem with them at all, but look carefully at the facts of life, crime, and drugs in these united states and which group contributes a disproportionate amount to these problems.

  24. Gunslinger: A grand jury is only required for murder in the 1st degree, which is defined as 'premeditated'. I would assume the prosecutor found no evidence justifying first degree murder and therefore no need for a grand jury.

    There must be evidence that Zimmerman provoked the confrontation (chasing an innocent person at night would give Trayvon the right to act in self-defense). An altercation occurred, no doubt, by the screams for help on the 911 calls (which 2 independent analysts concluded were not from Zimmerman). The key is who provoked the altercation, and the fact he has now been charged with 2nd degree murder, the people with access to all the evidence agree Zimmerman provoked the altercation.

  25. Comment removed by moderator. - -

  26. @bob, the common translation of "That is very easy, get on the internet and look up...." is, "I am unable to provide evidence to back my fantasy/theory, so I'll try an mask that by telling to prove what can't."

    Why would I look for something I know is not there. There is not a single incident like the Martin Homicide where a black man who killed a white teen was just let go by police.

  27. gunslinger, the version of events that you believe is no more credible than anyone else's on either side of the story. if anything, you sound biased, but it doesn't read like it's towards the truth...just towards the version you want to believe. oh well, opinions and buttholes...everyone has one. No justice no peace! lol...

  28. @TomD.."There was no gun. You can't take a swing at someone because they called you a "black man in a yellow shirt".

    No, but you can defend yourself if after saying it the person lunges towards you and reaches for a weapon. It doesn't matter if a weapon was present or not. Nearly 40 people shot by cops in Las Vegas were unarmed, but police felt they were reaching for a weapon.

    "what are the two lies and what has he continued to lie about. All accounts are that he has not changed his story."

    Z. Told Police he only got out of his vehicle to get a better look at the name of the street. The 911 proves that is a lie.

    Z. told police he had never been arrested never even had a speeding ticket. The truth is he has received a speeding ticket and has been arrested for assaulting a police officer.

    And as far as "Zimmerman also passed a lie detector test." He passed a Voice Stress Analysis (VSA), and the National institute of Justice says "VSA programs in use by police departments across the country are no better than flipping a coin when it comes to detecting deception (http://marker.to/mTTPyO)

  29. @GunslingerA10..."why do they can Mr. Z the killer in the case, and not the man that Mr. M tried to kill.."

    Are you confused about the definition of the word "killer"

    "killer [kil-er] Show IPA noun 1. a person or thing that kills

    Because there is no evidence the Martin killed anyone or that he tried to kill Zimmerman but indisputable evidence that Zimmerman killed Martin.

    "As a side note the only reason crime is down in LV is because there are less people than before, check the pop. I hate when skewed statistics are used to undermine the gen. pop.."
    I hate it when people act like they know what they are talking about when they clearly are just making things up in their heads.
    When the FBI releases its "Uniform Crime Report" the rates it publishes are based on population. All you had to do was spend three minutes on the site (http://goo.gl/6lfvq) to learn how your theory is bogus. In 2009 Las Vegas had a violent crime rate of 810 incidents per every 100,000 residents. In 2010 the number dropped to 763/100,000. Again drop in crime rate has nothing to do with less population.

    "and the voice is 46 percent chance of being Mr. Z screaming for help via the experts, but zero percent chance of being Mr. M, go figure"

    Where do you get the "zero percent chance of being Mr. M?" And Z's voice is a 46% match with the cries for help, not a 46% chance of being him. That's less than half needed for a positive match. So there the analysis concludes it can't be Zimmerman

    As a side note the only reason crime is down in LV is because there are less people than before, check the pop. I hate when skewed statistics are used to undermine the gen. pop.."
    I hate it when people act like they know what they are talking about when they clearly are just making things up in their heads.
    When the FBI releases its "Uniform Crime Report" the rates it publishes are based on population. All you had to do was spend three minutes on the site (http://goo.gl/6lfvq) to learn how your theory is bogus. In 2009 Las Vegas had a violent crime rate of 810 incidents per every 100,000 residents. In 2010 the number dropped to 763/100,000. Again drop in crime rate has nothing to do with less population.

  30. @stephenrblv...."are the emt's lying?" No, but since there are"EMS documents suggesting Zimmerman, who an ex-colleague said was fired from a security job for being too aggressive, did not sustain serious injuries in the fatal encounter.." (http://marker.to/CGE5Gg)

    That is more consistent with the police station video than the idea that Martin left Zimmerman bloody and battered with a broken nose and scalp laceration,

  31. @bob..in other words you are unable to cite as specific case where a black man killed a white teen, admitted it, claimed self-defense and was released without charges. That's what I thought.

    Just like the twitter post where Trayvon admits hitting a bus driver, all just figments of your imagination