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A woman who identified herself as Janelle K. holds up a sign during an Occupy Las Vegas protest on the Las Vegas Strip Thursday, Oct. 6, 2011. The protest was held in solidarity with Occupy Wall Street demonstrations in New York and in other parts of the U.S.
By Conor Shine (contact) 
Thursday, Oct. 6, 2011 | 9:27 p.m.
Protesters occupy Strip
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KSNV coverage of Occupy Las Vegas, a group of protesters marching on the Strip brandishing signs against corporate greed, Oct. 6, 2011.
Pam Lobb is fed up.
The 50-year-old Las Vegas resident lost her job at a law office about a year ago. She is behind on her mortgage and has struggled to find consistent work during one of the worst recessions in the country’s history.
Lobb was one of hundreds of people who took to the Strip on Thursday afternoon for the Occupy Las Vegas march, an offshoot of the Occupy Wall Street protests that started in New York three weeks ago.
Since then, similar marches have sprouted in more than a dozen cities, including San Francisco, Seattle, Philadelphia and Boston.
Thursday’s march started in front of the New York, New York casino, and for hours protesters paraded up and down Las Vegas Boulevard waving signs, playing drums and chanting. The crowd was filled with frustration and anger about the state of the country, but there was plenty of room for excitement and optimism, too.
“It’s about time American citizens woke up to how corporate greed is affecting us,” Lobb said. “It’s nice to see there’s more and more people who know what’s going on.”
The protests have been billed as an outcry against bank bailouts, corporate greed and the influence of money in politics. But marchers in Las Vegas each brought their own issues and concerns, ranging from ending the wars, feeding the poor, nuclear disarmament and fixing the economy.
For 24-year-old Ian Nishimure, the protests were about people having their voice heard after feeling ignored for so long.
“What we’re trying to do is to get people to come out and participate,” he said.
A recent UNLV graduate, Nishimure said he wants to see campaign finance reform to get money out of politics and allow for honest politicians to more effectively represent their constituents.
The mass of protesters was made up of an ethnically diverse group of people of all ages and numbered about 500, according to police estimates. Some were unemployed, but many chose to take off work to attend.
Dozens of Metro Police officers were on hand to control traffic and monitor the protest, but no major incidents were reported.
From sidewalks and pedestrian bridges, tourists seemed confused by all the commotion. Some stopped to take pictures, others offered cheers of encouragement and a few heckled the marchers.
Ron Marsh, on vacation from New Jersey with his family, eyed the protest from one of the bridges.
“I don’t know exactly what they’re protesting,” he said.
But he said he expects to see more movements like this sprout up if the economy doesn’t improve and people’s concerns aren’t addressed.
“It’s frightening. Our leaders in this country aren’t in touch with the working class,” he said.
Protesters acknowledged that a single march is not going to change the myriad ills they see affecting the country.
But many expressed hope that the marches in Las Vegas and around the country are the start of a larger movement that will push more people to get involved by voting or other forms of activism.
“There’s only one way to change things and that’s through the power of the masses,” 50-year-old construction worker Roger Boulin said. “I hope this movement doesn’t stop. Politicians need to start listening to the people that enough is enough.”
You see more and more people just getting angry. At some point, as the crowds get larger, more vocal, more powerful and more organized...change is going to have to happen. What that change is I'm not sure but more and more people are getting fed up with the American Dream all but disappearing. Maybe we need to go back to the days when there wasn't free trade. Yes, you'll pay more for things...but you might also be making a product here, have a job, make a better income and live a better life. All I know is the present situation of exporting every job known to man isn't cutting it.
Frustrated, yet she will vote the people who created it all, back into office and expect them to do something about it...
I am worrying how will those tourists think when they see it. I don't think it will create any positive effect on Vegas' image. When tourists find out that money they have spend isn't going to where it suppose to go, will they still choose to spend it at Vegas?
Sometime when I see things like "the best employer of the year", or "the best place to work" on the wall of an employment center........ I just want to laugh.
I'm sorry I'm not well enough to be out there with them. It's about time everyone realized that there is no longer enough cash among the 99% to keep the economy running because it's in the hands of the 1% and their sitting on it. There's no longer any question that they lied and cheated to get most of it.
When people can't afford to pay their utilities or buy enough food it's hard to even comprehend the head of a utility company getting a five million dollar a year salary, let alone what the Wall Streeters and the big bankers are making.
Greedy republicans destroyed the American dream.
Vote every last republican OUT OF OFFICE.
We need President Obama's jobs plan NOW.
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION.
That's right...instead of looking for jobs or taking some classes go march around and whine about the mean old rich people.
Greedy republicans, who ruined this economy, are
finally getting a taste of their inconvenient
truth.
STOP THE GREED.
The working class isn't going to take it
anymore.
Regardless of how anyone feels about the march, Metro is to be commended.
No, really!
TomD1228, the problem with your proposal is that without any free trade you can only consume so much within a given amount of time before Americans are saturated with goods and services. Are you aware that our exports are keeping our economy from falling further into the ditch?
Demand runs in cycles. American consumers are not going to have infinite demand for autos and clothes in a permanent upward trend. In free trade, you can balance things out.
The issue is not trade itself, it's that we do not have FAIR trade. China cheats us with their currency manipulation and we have trade deficits. We also have American consumers that place a great emphasis on the cheapest price first. This gives advantages to Chinese products. We also need tax reform that will allow American enterprise to compete with foreign competition for American consumers (remember price) so we can avoid shipping jobs overseas and keeping them here.
I'm far more concerned with the lack of choices politically than I am with counting other people's money.
We were on a very slow recovery. It took Yeeeeears to recover from the depression. In our impatience with the recovery some unthinking fools fell into the lies of the tea party republicans and voted them control of the house and many state governments. Now they are recalling them and stopping some state legislation. We need to get back on the proven, tried and true track of FDR and Clinton and get the country back to work. Once that is accomplished we can pay down the debt with a true shared sacrifice and pass a balanced budget amendment and promise the world we won't fight their wars for them in the future. The republicans need to lead or follow or just get out of the way...so far they are nothing but an anchor to our progress. These 99% are being watched and interviewed by all news organizations except Fox, who says they are "unAmerican"? "if you don't have a job it's your own fault"....good God, where do they come up with is unadulterated BS....
While this "march" was happeing yesterday, I spoke with three business owners/managers that are needing to hire a total of 13 employees between them. There ARE some jobs out there if people are willing to look decent and go to interviews prepared and acting responsible. They ALL told me stories of people showing up for interviews wearing short pants, not having copies of their resume's, bringing their children with them to the interviews, texting and talking on their cellphones during an interview, eating during the interview, and even showing up for the interview DRUNK! The list goes on about the crazy antics of people supposedly wanting a job, and all thirteen of these jogs are paying at least $10 per hour.
It's the quality of the applicants that the business owners/managers are having to deal with today. Would you hire anyone that you took the time to interview that came to it and acted in such a way these examples of people did? I certainly would NOT! I know the people that should be reading this and need to change their behavior during these interviews are not reading this. These are just some of the examples of business owners/mangers that ARE willing to hire today are having to deal with currently!
Newbee,
Consumers aren't ready to buy at normal levels yet and businesses aren't ready to invest yet. These socialism marches are for socialists who see America on the ropes with $14.7 trillion dollars in debt. "If we can just just kill the incentive to prosper we can kill off capitalism for good" is the mindset of socialists. They see blood with our country $14.7 trillion in debt. Lets hope the 91% who are working combined with retired Americans will vote the party supporting redistribution of wealth out of office in 2012.
We have a debt crisis, not a redistribution of wealth crisis.
@Tom1928
Whether these marches get anything done, one thing is certain: People ARE angry! No jobs or jobs with such low pay you can't even afford to buy groceries (which, BTW, have gone up considerably even at the low cost stores such as Walmart and Aldi). This is a way for people to show their anger at Wall St and Washington. Frankly, a million should march on DC when Congress is in session or half a mil in your own State capital to show disapproval of the yo-yo's running the country.
@kaza: Who cares what the tourists think? Goodie for them they have the money to actually take a trip and to Vegas no less. Most people can't do that. Vegas is a city where real people live; it's not just a "make believe" fantasy land that has gambling. What better place to air their anger but on the Strip?
@FrankieCasino: You are totally missing the point of these marches. Good for you that you can afford to put gas in your car and you have a job. You do NOT KNOW if half those people are taking classes and working a menial job that pays $8 an hour. You don't - so don't judgewith a snarky comment.
@Reza: Good quote. And very true. So far NO ONE running has any good solutions to our problems. Besides - IF the other party wins - we'll have to wait another 1.5-2 years before we even HEAR what they have planned. The Country can't wait that long.
@Newbee: My jaw dropped when I heard Herman Cain say it's OUR FAULT we don't have jobs! Another corporate shill running for public office. I don't trust the man.
The politicians have NO CLUE on how Americans live. Especially middle class Americans. So many are struggling. Luckily we've gotten a break at the gas pumps, but in it's place - groceries have gone up along with other items people use and need to buy. I noticed rents going up in my area, too! WTF! This isn't downtown Chicago for goodness sakes! They want $650-700 + utilities for an apartment BUT the units have income limits, ie for one person you can't make more than $26000 a year, for 2 people, $28000 a year!! You'd be rent poor!
So if all these marches really don't change Wall St one bit, at least people are voicing their frustrations and I hope they keep doing so.
Today...........peaceful protests in the streets.
Tomorrow............riots in the streets.
If they want to have an impact, they would set themselves on fire en mass.
Get the money out of our politics, that's the only way things will change. Sign this petition:
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
What would our nations founding fathers do upon finding themselves amidst present circumstance? Is it wise to recognize it's within any of us to think the unthinkable?
When I was a kid, like many other kids in school, I was told that anyone could be President of the United States. That if any of us wanted to be president, we were eligible. I also remember when I told this to my father he confirmed it was true, but also told me the cold hard facts that it was not going to happen. People and families with money & influence are the ones who enter into those high level of politics. That's not to say I couldn't be prosperous on my own in life, but in order to both achieve goals and to be happy with one's own life, a man also has to have reasonable expectations. If you're not smart enough to figure out how to make money, let alone have the connections to make it happen, you won't be able to.
From this I've learned that with Conservative Politics most people will defend to the death tax cuts for the rich and other such financial advantages because they foolishly believe that somehow they themselves are going to one day be hyper-wealthy like them. The use of words as weapons is astounding now. Anytime someone perceives something as a threat they they brand it as "Socialist", or as being apart of "Class Warfare", or "Wealth Redistribution", etc. History truly does repeat itself and this has become the new McCarthyism for our times.
But still conservative voters keep foolishly saying that we can't allow higher taxes on the rich individuals and corporations, because they're under this delusion that they're one day going to be just as rich themselves and don't want someone else to take away their money. Honestly you don't have anything to worry about, because that is never going to happen for you. Just be happy to be Middle-Class, and at least fight with other people to keep that economic position, because it's quickly going away.
The two biggest things that allot of conservatives should consider is that conservative politicians and interests are simply not on your side. From Cheerleading Talk Radio hosts, to Sarah Palin, they're all just there to make money off of you in the form of selling advertising to their book deals. And conservative politicians who are in power certainly aren't working on your behalf either since you truly have nothing at all to offer them. Why?
ONE: The fact that while you can achieve some level of prosperity, you're never going to be wealthy. It has nothing to do with liberal policies or the economy, and everything to do with the fact that you simply are NOT apart of the inner-circle of these people whom you support. Face it, you're not even apart of the outer circle of domestic help at these people's houses. You status as an individual is that low.
TWO: While yes you can achieve some degree of prosperity, the more you support these people who are actually against you, the harder you are making it on yourself to get ahead, let alone break-even. It is conservative corporations that sent your job overseas, deflated the value of our currency, and refused to plan for the future.
The CNN debate is October 18 at the Venetian.
The BIGOK said that he talked to three employers, and they told him that prospective employees showed up to interviews Drunk and improperly dressed for the interview. Well, I call B.S. on this whole post.
Either he was lied to or he lied. Which is it?
For one he is off subject, and for two $10 and hour will not buy you a car and a house in the suburbs!
$10 and hour will not make you middle-class. Americans have every right to demonstrate and be angry at the greedy power-brokers.
These movements are not going away, and are bigger than the Corporate funded Tea Partiers.
It isn't about $10 an hour jobs, it is about a sustainable income.
The Bankers and politicians are out of touch with reality.
Paul Ryan and John Boehner will be in the minority by 2015.
If you want to know who is responsible for the economy and this mess, look in to a mirror. We voters sent those to Washington and to the White House who passed the laws over several years, that allowed Wall Street and the Banks to rape the country. We watched as the leaders spent the country into bankruptcy and enjoyed receiving the government checks and benefits. As for the marches, they were organized by the unions and attended by folks without jobs. The jobs are gone and will never return so, retrain or leave Vegas and go where the work is.
"Romney says God supports American dominance in world affairs..."
In a CHARLESTON, S.C. speech, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney is calling for an "American century" led by a stronger military and a willingness to go it alone in world affairs when necessary.
THIS IS THE REPUBLICAN VIEW OF HOW TO SOLVE AMERICA'S PROBLEMS: BIGGER MILITARY, UNLIMITED DEFENSE SPENDING, MAKE THE SENIORS PAY WITH THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.
American doesn't need another Religious psychopath that takes orders from God. Put this guy in the White House and Trillions more will go down the drain in useless Wars, not to mention the Government itself.
i was there...
a couple points...
one...
it was a large crowd...
when we started walking the line was long...
very long...
two...
the mood was fantastic...
good people...
no phony frauds...
those folks seem to be drawn to the right side of the aisle...
three...
i slam metro on these pages from time to time...
mainly for killing so many civilians...
but i must say...
metro did a fantastic job...
as did the security for the various casinos...
this event went very very smoothly...
bravo security...
bravo metro...
Diamonddogg,
I call BS to your entire line of thinking. Knuckleheads like yourself are who took loans they couldn't afford and bought crap they couldn't pay for once the CC bills came in.
Ten dollars an hour ISN'T supposed to buy a house in the burbs and all the pretend garbage idiots "want".
Our society is such a bunch of lazy, liberal give-me, give-me, whiny snot nosed idiots. The protest should be about the failed policies of the idiot-in-chief. It's OK, keep blaming Bush even though he hasn't been in office for about three years.
Don't blame Obama, you'll lose your place at the coffee house and the other hipsters will look down on you.
Stop marching and try to spend the time educating yourself.
Some famous person once said that it is better to live proudly standing on your own two feet rather than dying on your knees.
I hope Occupy Las Vegas movement gains steam. It's about time there's a wake up call for democracy in Nevada.
There is a serious injustice going on right now. And these brave people marching up and down Las Vegas Boulevard didn't cause it. But they damn sure are going to end it and help contribute to fix this thing called America.
This situation where the rich get richer, richest, filthy rich, filthy richer, filthy richest is not the problem. The problem is some kind of warped status quo where they reap the benefits for their wealth while shoving all the sacrifice upon the middle class, the people who have the least say in our government. And to achieve that end, they hide behind politicians who are bought off to represent their interests. Our voices will be heard. Our votes will happen. They can't be bought off. I am glad to see people are waking up to the fact that votes are important, that our 99 percent outnumbers those 1 percenters who just look at us like victims waiting to happen. Call it class warfare or whatever you want, but I call it about time some kind of justice is happening.
Occupy Las Vegas needs to continue. I support it wholeheartedly. Those who want it to fail only have a vested interest in keeping things the warped way they are now.
It is definitely wake up call time. Time to shake things up. Voices are out there now. Freedom ain't guaranteed to be free. Takes a little work. Keep up the valiant fight....
This isn't the 1% versus the 99%. I believe Americans see the objective as getting the unemployment rate back down to 4.5% again.
Socialists, and yes, Obama are using the recession & unemployment as a means to get everyone talking about redistribution of wealth. People forget that Obama gave an interview back in 2001 and talked extensively about redistributive wealth and economic justice. Obama is trying to redistribute the wealth from hard working Americans in his Jobs plan, something he discussed back in 2001. Take a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3p...
"But marchers in Las Vegas each brought their own issues and concerns, ranging from ending the wars, feeding the poor, nuclear disarmament and fixing the economy."
GOOD GRIEF!
I am not saying these people do not have valid points. However, "Demonstrating 101" tells us you need CORE DEMANDS that you are angry about and demanding change on.
You can't have mobs walking around saying they are against anything that pops into their head. Nuclear disarmament? Feeding the poor? Mixed with bank bailouts and corporate greed?
The media and American public don't do wishy washy. If this looks like a disorganized mess the press will tire of covering it, people who may agree with some demands may not be able to focus because 100 different ones are being shouted out and the protests will fade as coverage does with nothing accomplished.
Pick 2-3 TOP complaints, organize under them and march. What a mess!
Plattworx,
Here is an unofficial list of their demands:
Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.
Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.
Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.
Demand four: Free college education.
Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.
Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.
Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.
Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.
Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.
Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.
Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.
Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.
Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.
These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-l...
People need to protest. They need to organize. We need unions. We need national health care.
AND WE NEED TO RAISE THE TAX RATE ON THE RICH TO THE LEVEL IT WAS IN THE 50s AND 60s when the MIDDLE class was growing and so was the economy.
THE FACT THAT THE RICH HAVE MOST OF THE MONEY,JUST LIKE WHEN THE DEPRESSION OCCURRED, IN NOT A COINCIDENCE.
If people don't have a living wage, and job security, they can not plan for the future and purchase things for the future.
This whole DEPRESSION was caused by the GREED of LESS THAN 1% of the POPULATION.
Wise UP TEA PARTY IDIOTS! Taxes are HIGH because the PEOPLE WHO HAVE 90% OF ALL THE MONEY - DON'T PAY TAXES.
Everyone hears it. And most everyone agrees, but what are we going to do about it? The protest is just a demosntration of anger without a plan to fix it.
It is a huge problem, but the problem lies in Washington. Have you noticed in the last year (or two) that no politicians have been indicted on corruption charges??????? Find it odd?
The Supreme Court threw out all the campaign finance laws. Corruption is legal now. It is and will be chaos thanks to this court ruling. They threw out a 100 years of campaign finance laws and ethics laws. It is now a free-for-all of corporate greed and influence.
I no longer know how to fix this country. We are painted into a corner.
This Wall St march is about politics and redistribution of wealth to the less self-regulated, less determined and less disciplined among us. Providing unemployment assistance is something we already do. This Obama class warfare tactic along with his 4 years of anti-business policies will lead to his defeat in 2012. Obama's Union Jobs Act will not stimulate job growth in the private sector which is 70% of our economy. This election is about jobs and getting the economy growing again, something Obama has not accomplished.
Bob635,
In 2008, those top 1% of income earners paid 38% of the federal tax revenue, double what it was in 1980 while the share of tax revenue paid by the bottom 50% fell from 7% in 1980 to 2.7% in 2008.
What, in your opinion, should the top 1% of income earners now contribute in tax revenue? Obviously, 38% is too low for your taste. Should the top 1% now pay 50% of all federal tax revenue?
Corporate greed is one of the largest factors in the deterioration of western societies. The sole goal of maximizing profit is as relentless and heartless as The Borg on the old Star Trek TV series. Moving countless jobs offshore to ensure bigger quarterly profits has almost ruined America and Canada.
I expect that the growing discontent by the masses, who now realize they've been cheated, will lead to full-fledged riots and confiscation of the assets of the wealthy. Just like in middle east countries recently, change will either occur because the armed forces will side with the people, or it won't occur because the military will remain loyal to the government.
The conditions for the French Revolution were very similar to those today: large government debt and government by oligarchy, as well as the example of the American Revolution (or, shall we say, Arab Spring).
This Wall St blame movement doesn't have a structural purpose like lower taxes, smaller government, business-friendly regulations and pro American job-growth economic policies. 98% of corporations employee less than 100 people and do not have an affiliation with Wall St. This is a socialism movement more than anything. Our free market system has developed through the years improved ways to give people what they want. Everywhere you turn you see groups of Americans who sacrifice their long-term interests for short-term rewards. Over-eating, poor health/obesity and high debt lifestyles. This "instant gratification" group lost its ability to self-regulate, and sacrifices its long-term best interest for short-term rewards. Once the "IG" group gets in trouble they look around to blame those who prosper by doing the opposite, making short-term sacrifices for long-term, sustainable gains. So now the "Instant Gratification" group wants to take money from those who have made long-term sacrifices. No, this movement is about the selfish few.
DMCVegas - That was one of the best posts I have ever read on this website. Well said!!
It is great watching the People stand up to the greedy wealthy of the Republicant money stream. The GOP has been pretty stealthy in their attack on mainstream Americans, they have got Judges, Governors, Supreme court Justices Federal and State and the majority of State and local officials to work to their advantage no matter what they do. The GOP political brainwashing has been overwhelming in the past twenty to thirty years and they got away with it.
We are suffering this financial crisis due to the ineptness of the past President (Bush) and now the GOP (wealthy) does not want to step up and pay for their mistakes. The GOP threw two wars and enacted Medicaid and tax breaks while not paying for a single item.
Now they want us to believe that school teachers, firemen, policemen, postal workers are the cause of all the problems. The GOP does not think that all of the tax breaks and tax loopholes they have created through their piggy backing bills through Congress behind people back has anything to do with it. The GOP want us to believe Social Security is the cause of all the problems, the truth behind that is now the money they have plundered from Social Security (2.65 Trillion dollars) is becoming due and they do not think that the rich, who benefited from all of the tax breaks and loopholes should have to lose their tax loopholes.
The next time Congress falls short on their spending why don't they take the money out of the Congressional retirement funds. If that would happen you would see a drastic cut in the way these Congressman spend money.
that one tourist said something like "our leaders aren't in touch with the working class." I'd like to expand on that. They are in touch with nothing and no one. The only rare exception is special interests/lobbyists and/or their primary sources of above board campaign finances (and of course plenty of under the table wheel greasing I am sure as well.)
Richard Bruin,
The GOP house passed two bills this year that would have gotten rid of tax loopholes via tax reform but both bills died in the senate.
This will not be a fact-based discussion today so I'll leave it to you folks who just want to vent.
Don't be afraid to discuss the socialist policies you would prefer to see in America. My favorites from your group so far are: $20.00 minimum wage, guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment and free open borders.
Honorable mention goes to this demand: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all.
Fall on deaf ears, congress and senate care less, all they care is more wasted spending and protecting big companies, screw the middle and low class.
Sounds like Rome crumbling from within, opening the door for the barbarians!
$10 an hour is a pay grade for someone just a starting out. The problem now is you have people with 20 years experience in office/corporate environments making $10/hour. The $20-$30/hour jobs have dried up. Those are the jobs that bring you to middle class standing. The reality is those jobs are getting exported overseas for cheap labor.
Anyone thinking the well paying jobs are out there like they used to be are delusional. What's the drafter supposed to do when architectural and engineering firms now export their drafting work to India for $3/hour? It's easy to say retrain, but this guy probably went to school, paid to keep up with the latest trends and then saw his craft disappear. Now he has to go back to school, learn a new trade/skill, pay for it and at the same time support his family. Easier said then done.
BIGOK, what is the name of that company? Is that business signed up with the unemployment Department? So there is really not 13% unemployment? It is just a bunch of lazy stupid people not showing up? This is what I hear on talk radio from Haters like Heidi Harris. It is Obama wrecked the economy, then it is all the unemployed are gaming the system and turning down jobs. Which is it?
Even being simply a millionaire on paper nowadays doesn't mean much. THERE ARE DIFFERENT CLASSES OF MILLIONAIRES. The wealthy multi millionaires and billionaires with lots of capital, who sit on multiple corporate boards, have countless lobbyists and lawyers, net worth and diverse businesses, are the ones who buy political favors.
I am at the way bottom of that food chain. I am well off financially, but I realized years ago I will never be a Wall Street money manager or banker, a Steve Wynn or let alone a CEO of anything. I pay the higher taxes and I am fine with that. I relate more to the middle class. I don't own a home in an exclusive gated community in Spanish Trails, The Lakes, Southern Highlands, Summerlin or Seven Hills.
I totally sympathize with these protesters as well as the Occupy Wall Street protesters. The only "Millionaires" who can relate to the middle class are entertainers, small business owners, small time investors and some professional athletes. They realize their earning power is limited compared to the people they will always have to work for. Especially NFL players. They have an appreciation for what they do and for their fans. I have been around the multi millionaires and billionaires who run companies and have enormous political clout. Bottom line: They are the 1-5 percent and they are not like middle or upper middle class people at all.
A great story from a man who is a millionaire but certainly not one of the 1%!
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesameric...
Beans, bullets, and beers. Stock up.
"...golden parachutes created golden showers for the down trodden masses."
dipstick -- very well said!
"What would our nations founding fathers do upon finding themselves amidst present circumstance?"
dsteele13 -- it happened early, and Thomas Jefferson was one of those who commented on it extensively. You can find his complete works @ http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_s...
"American doesn't need another Religious psychopath that takes orders from God."
SunJon -- amen to that! It's been known for centuries how useful religion, and its faithful sidekick morality, is to control the masses. Seneca and Machiavelli are just two of many who wrote about it.
"Pick 2-3 TOP complaints, organize under them and march. What a mess!"
plattworx -- welcome to the First Amendment in action
"At home things are not well. The flood of paper money, as you well know, had produced an exaggeration of nominal prices, and at the same time a facility of obtaining money, which not only encouraged speculations on fictitious capital, but seduced those of real capital, even in private life, to contract debts too freely. Had things continued in the same course, these might have been managable: but the operations of the United States Bank for the demolition of the States banks obliged these suddenly to call in more than half their paper, crushed all fictitious and doubtful capital, and reduced the prices of property and produce suddenly to one-third of what they had been. . . Should it be stationary at this for a while, a very general revolution of property must take place." -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Albert Gallatin, 1820, from "The Works of Thomas Jefferson" Vol. 12
Dip,
Good luck getting Americans to relate to your socialist movement.
When the tea party did the same thing protest, the media and liberals said they were all racist when all they were doing was protesting taxes big money as well, they just did not go down to wall street but now the same ones saying the tea party is racist are doing the same thing protesting. Where was everyone when the tea party was protesting the government and greed and yes taxes are greed? this 99% thing does not represent 99% of Amercians agreeing with the protest, most are protesting they don't want to pay back their student loans when no one was holding a gun to their head to take the loans, they need to protest their schools they are the ones that are setting the price for classes so they can pay their uber rich teachers, they don't like capitalism but capitalism is what is giving them the opportunity to text messages, use the internet facebook the CEO made 17 million last year or was it billion? they are not protesting facebook and I don't see the CEO of facebook giving away his billions or Michael Moore or the millionaire union leaders.
Keep this in mind, peeps...
Given the current situation in our economy, who is more likely to hire you for a job?
The corporation that you are protesting against or the guy next to you in the protest? My guess is neither are hiring right now, but I know who has a chance to do so. And no, it will not be the knucklehead next to you in line...
Are there things that need to be corrected? Probably. For instance, the housing/foreclosure debacle. Can we all wise up a little and only sign for loans that we can afford? Can we not fall for interest rates that if we really looked at things, we would have seen that they were only created for investors, not homeowners (ARM)? Can we become a little more self-reliant and understand that we have more to do with our our success than others do? The truth was that the loans were bad for us, but we hurt ourselves by signing those docs anyway. If a home is for sale, and it's only worth 100K in 2011, but two people wanted it back in 2007 and were willing to pay 400K, was it really worth 100K or 400K? How about now? What is it worth? What will it be worth in 5 yrs? 10 yrs?
Are things ever perfect? Of course not, but some valid and truthful perspective would be nice.
Now, how about a flat tax rate for individuals and corporations? 10% for a starting point perhaps, or is it too simple for understanding?
And the victimization of America continues. Everyone loves blaming someone else for their problems. The reality is that our working class needs to acquire more and different skills. Example...in Vegas, we built far too many houses. We don't need any more inventory just so that we can create "jobs". People either need to move somewhere else or find a new line of work. I understand it's not that easy, but I did a complete 180 in my career, and it's not ideal, but it's working out.
Many subsidies to large corporations need to stop. Tax reform needs to happen immediately. Banks need to negotiate principal balances on mortgages so that such a huge % of people aren't underwater on their homes. The housing crisis is still one of the primary problems in this recession. MAJOR mistakes were made by the past 3 administrations that contributed to this mess...repealing Glass-Steagall, attempts to increase home ownership by reducing requirements for down payments and financial strength, keeping interest rates at basically 0 for years, not paying for 2 major wars, and then passing a wasteful stimulus program that cost hundreds of thousands per job created.
Private corporations aren't obligated to create unnecessary jobs just to help you out, they'll start hiring when it has a positive impact on their bottom line. I know that some people think that's ruthless and cold-hearted, but that's the way it should be.
The government often spends more just to create a job than the employee actually receives. And those are often short-term jobs. Far too much waste and corruption in the government. Decisions aren't made for the right reasons. Every politician wants to do something that sounds good to their constituents, but they fail to address (either intentionally or out of neglect) the long-term consequences of their decisions. We're all doing more with less, and the government needs to do the same.
My opinion.
Oregon's Peter DeFazio on Occupy Wall Street and the future of this country...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNNYWAZlC...
VERY astute, for a politician.
Some signs say stop the war, really which one of Obama's wars do you mean? Gays and losers mixed with KOOL-AID snorters and the brown shirted jack booted union thugs. What a joke! They not only don't know exactly what they are protesting they aren't even protesting the people that caused it. Funny if it weren't so sad.
RefNV, be careful what you wish for. If even half of those demands you posted were fulfilled the American economy would be destroyed. We would also be creating a federal government with a hell of a lot more control then they have now, not to mention you would create a dependency on the government that would probably never be able to be reversed.
I understand that some people think it would be great if they didn't have to work and other taxpayers would just pay to support them, but if we really want a prosperous country then we need everyone to take responsibility for supporting themselves.
UNLV-123,
I agree with all your points. I'm a fiscal conservative.
I find it hilarious that the unions are supporting this given that without Wall Street their retirement funds would be empty. (Of course, depending upon the union management, they might be anyway.)
RefNV,
I went to the link you posted. I would call the demands posted an attempt at disinformation, but the website owner only put up a disclaimer instead of taking the post down.
There is no way any sane person would accept all of them being implemented.
"Don't blame Wall Street, don't blame the big banks, if you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself!" Cain said. "It is not a person's fault because they succeeded, it is a person's fault if they failed. And so this is why I don't understand these demonstrations and what is it that they're looking for."
I love Herman Cain.
Don't forget Tea Party folks don't believe in too big to fail and were against the bailouts also.
liberal organizer told the Daily Caller on Thursday afternoon that he paid some Hispanics to attend "Occupy DC" protests happening in the nation's capital.
TheDC attended the protest event, an expansion of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement that began in New York City. Some aspects of the protest, it turned out, are more Astroturf than grassroots.
One group of about ten Hispanic protesters marched behind a Caucasian individual from the DC Tenants Advocacy Coalition, a non-profit organization dedicated to supporting rent control in Washington, D.C.
Asked why they were there, some Hispanic protesters holding up English protest signs could not articulate what their signs said.
Interviewed in Spanish, the protesters told conflicting stories about how their group was organized. Some said it was organized at their church, and that they were there as volunteers. Others, however, referred to the man from the DC Tenants Advocacy Coalition -- the only Caucasian in the group -- as their "boss."
TheDC asked that organizer whether he was paying the group to attend the protest, and he conceded that some protesters "aren't" volunteers.
"Some of them are volunteers. Some of them aren't," he explained. "I can't identify them. I'm not going to get into an identification game."
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/06/organi...
Occupy people... you are an embarrassment.
What some people call greed I call able and competent.
... and yet the American people still squabble amongst themselves.
They never learn, right vs left until they are starving on the streets. What can you do but sit back and watch.
This country is like one big scripted reality tv show with failing ratings.
DMCVegas made some points that need to be reinforced. He spoke to what I consider the "Joe-the-Plumber" dupe-job. Joe the Plumber (Joe Wurzelbacher) is probably a decent enough human being. But he was badly exploited by John McCain and Sarah Palin, and has since spoken up about that and even quit the Republican party. Joe even duped himself, and that is my point. Remember he believed his own words when he spoke of getting ready to "buy a plumbing company," and not thinking it was fair to have an imminent tax hike as his income was going to top $250K ?
Well Joe was kidding himself. The truth turned out that he was not even a licensed plumber, he was NOT about to buy any company, and his income at that time was less than $40K a year.
Right-wing media has become the new 'opiate of the masses,' telling most people that what is good for the top 1% and Wall Street, coincides with what is good for them. Sure, the American dream can still come true. But convincing ALL the Joe-the-Plumbers of the world that THEY TOO, are mere steps away from the rich life, is the biggest snow job and fraud of our era.
We don't have to have class warfare. But the truth is, the 1%'ers, Wall Street, Herman Cain, and the rest of that ilk, are the ones trashing the economy, even as they scapegoat it on the middle class and American worker. And the Joe-the-Plumbers, showing up in full force on this thread, shoot themselves up with this opium, then smugly (read: ignorantly) try and spread it to the rest of us as, if they thought of it something themselves.
I've seen a couple of comments here about there being jobs here in Vegas.
I've been here since 2007, been sending out resumes. Part- or full-time doesn't matter. I can work for any type of company with my accounting skills. Sent out directly to companies and to Employment agencies. Not one call back from any of the companies and very few agencies call. My resume pretty much speaks for itself. I also attach a cover letter. I've been told numerous times from the Employment agencies that I've been out of work too long, the companies don't want me. One company actually deleted my resume without even reading it (got that notification from my server).
I've told numerous agencies I'm willing to work for $10/hr. Nothing, Nada, Zilch. So yes, I can understand the anger these people have. However, I'm not just angry at Wall Street, I'm angry at the Banks and every other company that received a bailout. Maybe next time (if there is one) we should just forego the bailouts???
Why can't these people voice their opinions??? The Tea Party did. I say go for it, there have been no murders, no rampages...voice your opinions in person or otherwise. This is America, we have the right to do so.
Enjoyed your post, DTJ. GAH BOO YAH! You nailed it.
But I'm happy to see that with this Occupy Wall Street movement, and the offshoots in other cities in the United States, clearly outline that people are waking up. And they are taking it to the streets. They've had enough and are reaching the boiling point. And I don't blame them. When politicians don't pay attention to them, something needs to be done to give them a wake up call.
One trend coming out in the past few days is really, really remarkable about the opposition to Occupy Wall Street. And that is the fact that the entirety of Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Rep. Cantor, Mitt Romney, and Herman Cain (just to name a few) have all went down on record complaining about it and calling them a "mob" (amongst other lame excuses they want people to believe).
I'm pretty sure people see that they are all elected officials from the Republican Party and pundits from neo-conservative Republican Party right wing television/radio that are pounding out this bull puckey.
Make no mistake about it. They hate this Occupy Wall Street movement because they feel it is taking away all of their perceived wins in opposing President Obama and his entire administration. They seem to feel it is taking away from their eternal political party goal mindset they really want to stick with.
I am very sure this stance will backfire on them. Because all indications show this Occupy movement is catching on and getting bigger. Doubt me all you want, but the trend is there. It is spreading. People are sick and tired of being lied to. And definitely disgusted with the fact the people who wrecked this country had nothing happen to them and, even worse, there is nothing to prevent those same people from doing it again. In short, the people want a voice in Government. As of right now, they really feel they are not being paid attention to.
The following is from Occupy Las Vegas' Mission Statement. It seems to us to be a pretty coherent list of demands. It kind of boils down to this: WE WANT DEMOCRACY, NOT PLUTOCRACY!
WHAT do we want?
We want an end to corporate money's influence in politics, whether through campaign donations, PACs, or other groups. Money is not speech.
We want truly effective campaign finance reform, so that corporations and other interests have no overwhelming advantage over the rest of us in any part of American politics.
We want far greater legal accountability for public officials and corporate executives, and we demand that, if found guilty of committing crimes while in office, they are made to pay for those crimes in full, like anyone else.
We want our justice system to treat everyone equally regardless of origins or social class, at all levels and at every stage, from investigations to trials and sentencing.
We want an end to the continual attacks on our social safety net and on the rights of workers to organize themselves and, if need be, to strike to get better pay, benefits, and working conditions.
We want secure and sustainable investments and improvements in our social infrastructure, like schools and libraries, and to create an America where everyone may actually live in a decent and dignified manner, an America where everyone's rights count and are respected by all.
This is who we are and what we want. We ask for no more and shall take no less.
We are the 99% and we will not be silenced.
RefNV has it all wrong...
The Occupy Wall Street movement has NOTHING to do with socialism.
The movement is loosely hinged but to say that the movement is all about socialism is to have one's head where the Sun doesn't shine.
People are sick & tired of Wall Street and the banks ripping off the hard working people of this country....
People are sick & tired of the two parties getting NOTHING done and spending most of their time trying to keep their job as opposed to doing their job.
People are sick and tired of the lobbyists calling the shots in Washington.
People are sick & tired of seeing good paying jobs being taken off shore while we have almost 10% of the work force in this country unemployed.
People are sick & tired of watching the middle class disappear while America's rich are richer than ever before...
People are sick & tired of American corporations paying next too nothing in taxes and yet complaining about the taxes that they do pay...
In short, people are sick & tired....
Amen, Dennis, Colin, Gina and ElLobo. The Occupy Wall Street people -- and I vicariously consider myself one of them -- may be in it's infancy. But we have legitimate complaints, and they are NOT socialistic. What we want is a turning back of this law-of-the-jungle takeover of our nation by the monied powers, and a return to where a middle-class family can get a fair shake.
Gina,
Are you guys against union campaign donations?
Also, corporations are limited on campaign donations. Most people don't seem to pay attention to what the Citizens United decision actually said -- Obama included.
(oh and you're only about 32%)
"...corporations are limited on campaign donations..."
That's a joke, and you know it. Just look at all the money Art Pope pours into chosen North Carolina politicians. Or how much the Coch brothers pour into chosen campaigns, everywhere. And to be fair, look at all the shell organizations Rory Reid set up to take money from his usual suspects in the last election. Campaign finance restrictions are a joke, and to tout them is disingenuous.
Gina I would recomend that you ignore Patrick gibbons post as to he is to much a coward to disclose he is a paid propagandized from a Corporate funded right wing think tank.
Greedy, heartless republicans act like they don't
understand why the working class is protesting.
They don't want to understand.
Greedy republicans never cared about average
workers in the first place.
That's why they're anti-union.
They say union workers make too much.
Greedy republicans want the majority of
Americans to be making minimum wages.
That's the republican dream.
Greedy republicans stole the American dream
when they sent all of our jobs to
COMMUNIST CHINA.
AMERICANS NEED A LIVING WAGE.
ALL AMERICANS NEED HEALTH CARE.
THAT'S WHY AMERICANS ARE PROTESTING IN THE
STREETS.
That's right Teamster, we WILL take over the streets in EVERY city.
Goldman Sucks stock is down 50% this year like B of A--that's great news. And I love the story of John Law and the Mississippi bubble--perhaps the biggest ponzi ever. It took place during the reign of Louis XIV in France and nearly bankrupted the country and helped lead to the French Revolution. When the bubble blew up it was followed by another famous financial disaster--the South Seas bubble. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diEVmQZ1Q...
yawn...what a waste of time. Another article on entitlement.
El Lobo,
As a business consultant, all I can tell you is that most business leaders are conservative and the fiscal and now political environment right now is unstable causing businesses to put off any expansion plans. Additionally, the 40's thru 80's age group, those with means, are mostly conservative as well and they are holding onto their money. Companies have or are continuing to deleverage so they can wait until the fiscal and political landscape becomes more stable. Those who are unemployed want a job yet your movement thinks this is the time to ask for high wages. You don't have any leverage to negotiate for higher wages during a recession. I see posters above who have a Facebook page and they're linked to the below Facebook groups, March on the Strip and Occupy Las Vegas. The members of these two groups are predominantly young UNLV/college-aged young adults and I think it's a shame you and others are brainwashing these kids into thinking this is the method to get a job in a down economy. You're just prolonging their suffering by prolonging an unstable business environment. I have a job so I can wait it out. I'm just trying to get the business wheels turning again which helps everyone. But I know what I need to do is just wait it out so I'll jump online next time I think our economy is closer to it's expansion phase. You guys do what you want but if you want jobs and your looking at businesses as your job source then you're just shooting yourselves in the foot when you slam business. It's 70% of our economy for goodness sake.
Good luck El Lobo.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/occupylas...
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=15...
These are the same people that marched in the tea party ...same problems ....just different answers and different corporate sponsors .
Richard, you're full of it. The Facebook links above show the meeting times and the members of the movement, most are young college-aged kids, teachers(Angie Sullivan) and liberal democrats. These are not fiscal conservatives.
RefNV,
That list of demands was submitted by one person. It is one person's opinion. If you read the response from Occupy Wall Street Admin:
Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.
Stop forcing your views on those that have been involved from the beginning. We do not all want the same things. I do not believe a Venus Project society will work on a larger scale, but that is what some want. This movement is a place for ANYONE to come and voice their frustrations. It is not about one person or a few persons ideas leading the pack. Most of you that are against it, are looking for things that are being said that are against your ideals. Those of you that still believe your political party is the greatest and the other one evil, are the biggest problem that we have in this country. Blind allegiance lead by F.E.A.R. (False Expectations Appearing Real) Before you judge, why don't you go down to Freemont Street and talk to the variety of protesters there. However, it might interrupt your armchair commentaries.
Sarakleon,
This is a public forum to express one's views so I'm not buying your attempt to shelf my views that are simply based on getting Americans working again.
I agree, the marches lack coherency but the thread is obviously liberal. 91% who want to work have jobs and 4.5% to 5% do not. We need to get the 4.5% to 5% working again with stable federal tax & spend policies and pro-growth tax reform. The Wall St marches are based on incoherent liberal policies that do nothing to help get Americans working again. You have some 40 & 50 year old folks who need to work again to build their nest egg for retirement. These older generation workers can't afford to be on the sidelines not working waiting for political and fiscal instability to settle in 5 or 10 years. Liberals don't appear to be too concerned with this group nor are they concerned about our long-term debt & deficit issues. The marchers can demand all they want but we need to focus on the task at hand which is getting Americans working again. Sara, I'm dealing with reality. Let's fix the flat tire(the economy & jobs) and worry about the paint job(refining other policies) down the road. Let's get people back to work.
They are protesting against the wrong entity. I own a small business and I have had to lay off workers. Why? Because the government taxes and regulations increase my costs so much, I can't make a profit that allows me to hire more workers. Government is the PROBLEM on the SOLUTION!
Dave, what specific taxes and regulations are preventing you from hiring workers, that you would hire if those taxes/regulations didn't exist? I'm always curious about that. I'm a small business guy myself, but I'm fairly confident that we're in different industries, and I'm not familiar with all of the regulations.
They have no idea what they're marching for; somebody asked them to come beat to same drumbeat just as their leader does; mindless trolls wanting something for nothing. The unions and liberal agenda are heating up knowing Obama and clan are done.
All I can say is this next election is going to be interesting, at that, the anger that will come out, voter intimidations, shootings, and all other forms of sick repugnant liberal behavior will flourish. The liberal agenda is all about big government where your liberal leaders force us into taking care of the human cesspool liberal gene pool.
Liberals you make most of America sick because you actually believe the garbage the spews from your leader's lips and your own lips. Here a news flash for you liberals, what they're really saying to their mindless trolls is that most of you are all too lazy and defiantly too stupid to know better therefore we'll force the taxpayers to take care of you and your gene pool.
All liberals need to do is wake up and think for yourself, think, government isn't the solution, government is the problem. Think, I control my destiny and I am responsible for my life. Think, I don't need handouts; I need to do more for me and my family and stop relying on others. Think, I need to quit whining and complaining about what others have and start making it on my own. Think nobody else but me is responsible for my shortcomings in life, I created it, I own it, I am to blame, nobody else. Finally, think, the liberal agenda isn't healthy for me or my family, they want to people to become codependent upon their handouts and not become successful self respecting people who can think on their own.
What is the greed on Wall Street? I see none, only risk takers who get burned and make millions day to day. How about protesting the millions a baseball player makes, or the millions they pay a movie star? Where is the anger for these super stars and why they don't pay up? Oh, they are democrat, sorry. Off the hook..Sean Penn need not send his extra check in. But we are coming after you Mr. Wall Street! If it was not for Wall Street and the open capital markets many of these people would not have a job! They have no clue.
News flash "SACRAMENTO (Reuters) - California Governor Jerry Brown on Saturday signed a bill giving illegal immigrant college students access to state-funded financial aid, the second half of two-part legislation known as the "Dream Act."
Now pack your bags and move to California where you're wanted.
ImproveLV,
I think you caught Dave202 with his proverbial pants on fire. Anybody, like him, can show up on these threads and play make believe. The truth is, there are all sorts of tax breaks for small businesses and the income taxes on a business -- from those on a sole proprietorship to those on a corporation -- are historically low, when compared to the golden era of American post-war growth.
Dave202 is spouting the conservative think-tank mantra, not anything he's seen in real life.
Warren Buffett, who actually does run a company (and own many more), spoke to just this issue and thoroughly debunked it.
DTJ, I wasn't trying to call anyone out, I've just never heard the details behind that complaint. As a small business owner, I've never had that problem. My primary concern is the expense of health insurance.
To be fair, both sides come on here and spout their political party's talking points, and very few fully understand the issues.
You have government debt at local, city, state and federal levels including government pension costs that are rising sharply year-to-year. The big question that small businesses have is: how will the local, city, state and federal government pay for the budget shortfalls? Raise taxes? On whom? Conservative consumers want to know their tax long-term liability. People in their 40's & 50's trying to save for retirement? Same thing, they want to know their future tax liability. This is the uncertainty regarding taxes. Companies are preserving cash, deleveraging, buying back their stock at lower prices and are holding off on any growth/expansion initiatives due to tax, capital and consumer uncertainty.
There are more potential "Vallejo, Ca" bankruptcy situations than you want to know about. (see link below)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-14...
"There are more potential "Vallejo, Ca" bankruptcy situations"
Vallejo is the new epidemic of what liberals can accomplish is a short period of time, Vallejo use to be thriving conservative community when Mare Island was flourishing and there were no laws to diversify the local economics. Vallejo succumbed to new American dream, why work when the diversity can provides enabling behavior such as robbery, rape, stealing, gang bang, drugs, and all other forms of what liberals find to be acceptable and normal in their eyes where normal people find their choices sick and repugnant.
Sit back and watch, what used to be considered nice communities are being overtaken by the liberal gene pool. Section 8 housing and diversity is on the rise where HUD is moving them in by bus loads daily into what use to nice average communities. You'll recognize it, by day, nobody is out and about, and they're till asleep, just before sunset they are waking up stating to mingle in the streets, getting their beer, selling their dugs, and wearing their goofy clothing. Crime will slowly rise, graffiti will slowly surface, and you'll see $100.00 cars with $20,000.00 worth of stolen wheels and stereo equipment and other tale tale gestures that says to people, something's up, best not move into this community. They infest slowly where eventually, it's all about more free crap not being given to them.
RefNV,
You begin outlining the problem rather well, then you took the wrong path at the fork in the road when you said
"consumers want to know their tax long-term liability," and that this "uncertainty" is the reason Corporate America won't invest or expand and hire.
With all due respect, that is preposterous. Companies won't invest and expand in America because they see the declining income of middle-class America, the backbone of our economy. And consumers see it themselves. THAT'S why nobody is investing or spending money (in this country, at least). NOT because everybody is wondering around in a daze saying, "If only I knew my future tax liability... If only I knew..."
You need to let go of the conservative think-tank packaged explanation of how the world works; it's no more realistic than Karl Marx's version was. Have a fresh cup of hot coffee and open up a window.
Peter, the reason movie stars make so much is BECAUSE of the free capital market you believe in. Brad Pitt makes $20 million a picture because you the moviegoer spends money at the box office to see his movies. And what makes you think that movie and TV stars don't pay a lot of taxes?
DTJ,
As a business consultant, I look at several indicators that give me a clear picture of what is happening currently in the overall consumer market/economy. Savings rates, debt load including credit card debt, big ticket item purchases, housing, inflation, employment, construction, business equipment purchases and consumer confidence are just a few of the trends that tell me whether or not we are still in economic expansion or going into contraction.
There are cultures who have accumulated wealth by pooling their money as a family to buy a business so they do very well. They buy their first business, payoff any outstanding loans within 3 to 4 years, save their money, and buy another business within two years after paying off their first loan. In 20 years, they accumulate several businesses and wealth as a family. This is done in every state, everyday. Jerry, why do these cultures move here and accumulate wealth? Simple. They have a plan and make short term sacrifices together as a family for long-term gains. It's done everyday. The instant gratification group typically does not accumulate wealth.
Petef,
I've yet to see the first former athlete, movie star etc. that lost all of his/her money get bailed out by the government, but Wall Street did.
Tarp(bank bailouts) was a bailout that originally expected to cost the U.S. taxpayers as much as $300 billion, by December 16, 2010, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated the total cost would be $25 billion,although Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner argued that the final cost would be still lower.
The auto bailouts protected jobs and is being paid back.
The $867 billion stim at taxpayer's expense has not been paid back.
The bank bailout was basically a liquidity remedy to unfreeze capital markets.
The MAJORITY OF PROTESTERS that marched on the Las Vegas Strip within the OCCUPY Las Vegas march, were there to voice their pain, and or opinions. Each person there has a voice, was respected as having an individual voice, and viewed as a Leader in their own right!
Now, to address leadership of the Las Vegas OCCUPY, they have in all fairness, openly had "GENERAL MEETINGS" to have a collective and open vote as to the direction and logistics of the event. POLITICS and/or POLITICAL labeling/leader appointments, have not been a part of this movement, nor will it. OCCUPY is about the PAIN People are feeling, and using a open, public protest/march as a vehicle to express it, collectively as individuals with rights.
Some commenting on the Las Vegas Sun posts here, are attempting to assign political labels and make this a certain type of protest. Fact is, there are many points of views from protesters of varying political affiliations or points of views. One thing is certain of them all, they wish to be heard, whatever their message!
It is easy to judge.
Citizens are feeling pain. It matters not if at this time, you observe more UNemployed, students, certain groups. Those who can come, at the moment, come. Those who are unable: tied up at work, have other obligations with their children/family, will eventually find a way to express themselves. They exist! Many attended in spirit due to challenges that impeded their ability to be physically present at the OCCUPY Las Vegas March on the Las Vegas Strip.
There are plenty of good People in this country and around the Globe, who are suffering due to politics and corruption. They are the 99%. In a civilized society, we should be having compassion and empathy towards those who suffer, and be working towards a plan to address it.
For those who feel it is their duty to judge and spew all manner of hatred, just be aware that suffering can happen to YOU as well. It can happen to any of us, anytime. Nothing good comes out of hatred.
And for those of you who wish to start singling me out, please permit me to confess that I am human, and also am NOT perfect. I do respect any person, regardless of their beliefs, their right to speak out and their right to dissent. NO hate there, just fact.
Blessings & Peace,
Star
Vice President Joe Biden recently compared Occupy Wall Street with the Tea Party. I can understand the comparison, but there are important differences. Tea Bags are GOP butt kissers that take their marching orders (errr, I should say lawn chair sitting orders) from absurdly overpaid right wing shills, who in turn get their orders from the 1% who have thrived under a pathological system that has greatly rewarded their interests while gutting the middle class. Tea Bags like to blame all problems on "taxes", even though the vast majority of Tea Bags are ignorant mediocre wage earners who are so blinded by whatever their pathetic single issue might be (opposing a woman's right to choose, hatred of immigrants/other ethnic groups, etc.) that they eagerly lobby against their own self-interest to prove their obedience to the shills that exploit them.
Occupy Wall Streeters, on the other hand, understand that the decline of the American middle class and the overall sense of hopelessness and desperation about the future gripping this country has nothing to do with "taxes" or "immigrants" or whatever. Instead, OWSers understand that record low taxes have in fact had no beneficial impact whatsoever on creating an overall sense of greater prosperity. They also understand that the collapse of financial markets near the end of The Bush Disaster was created not by government, but instead by greed worshippers on Wall Street who profited enormously from the defective and unregulated financial instruments they hawked around the world, who then just sort of slithered back into the shadows as the fallout ruined the hopes and dreams of millions of Americans.
So yes Joe, I can understand the comparison, but pay better attention to the details.
Its2hot -- rather than blather away about "the liberal gene pool" in Vallejo, you might want to consider the municipal bankruptcy situation in the Con bastion of Jefferson County, Alabama:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new...
Note what happens when Wall Street gets its slimy paws into "creative financing" for a municipality.
RefNV,
You drop some of the buzzwords any viewer watching CNBC can hear spoken in about five minutes of viewing, but you failed to address your claim about consumers being held back because of 'uncertainty about taxes.' But let's not dwell upon that; much of what you did mention in your comment to me, I would not disagree with.
You also go on to mention the higher savings rates of other societies, as well of that of immigrants here who come from those societies. On that, I would also agree, inasmuch that it speaks to a part - though not the entirety -- of our country's problem. Yes, savings rates in America have been woefully low for some time now, and the chickens are coming home to roost.
But the reason, say, Japanese or Chinese individuals do a better job of saving than Americans do, is because their governments have a unified economic policy that prioritizes developing their countries into export powerhouses over being consumerist societies. Meanwhile, the American economy has become about almost nothing but "consuming." We could get away with being consumer-driven when we also happened to be manufacturing what we consumed. But all those jobs have been taken away from us and sent to Asia. So now Asia get all the producing jobs, and we just get to buy what they send us. If Asia also allowed Americans access to their markets, and Asian consumers were allowed the free access and choice of purchasing American goods and services, things would roughly balance out. But Asia just takes, and we let them get away with. More than any sub-prime mortgage crisis, it is this one-way street I describe which has undermined our economy. The borrowing against equity in one's home and the entire housing bubble was just a symptom of an economy that was already going down and was simply trying to buy more time.
Whether you are talking about savings rates, dwindling rates of consumption, investment, or the jobless rate, it all ties in to the opposite directions in which the U.S. economy and the Asian economies (ex-Japan) are going. And that, predominantly, is driven by national economic policy over there, and lack thereof, over here.
Star,
Unfortunately, we monitor the "Occupy Las Vegas" Facebook page to get the vibe of the movement. It has a strong liberal thread and anti-capitalism theme. The die has already been cast for your movement; Your movement is based on liberal, pro-socialism, anti-capitalism ideology. Just read the posts.
http://www.occupylasvegas.org/
http://www.facebook.com/occupylasvegas