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Of all higher ed issues facing the Legislature, guns on campus shoots to top
Wednesday, June 1, 2011 | 2 a.m.
J. Patrick Coolican
CARSON CITY — Of all the problems facing the beleaguered Nevada System of Higher Education, which one seems so urgent that the Legislature would take it up? Perhaps it’s how to deal with deep budget cuts, which will be at least $200 million when you count the loss of federal stimulus money? Or access for underprivileged students? Or graduation rates? Or the division of resources between UNR and UNLV?
Well, if you guessed any of those, you’d be wrong. The real pressing issue? We’ve got to make it easier for people to carry concealed firearms on campus. Hell yeah!
Now, don’t get me wrong: I’m not big on gun control. Given that there’s a firearm for every man, woman and child in America, I don’t see much point, aside from vigorously enforcing measures to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and those who are a danger to themselves or others.
And although there’s sharp disagreement between constitutional historians and the conservative majority of the U.S. Supreme Court on the meaning of the Second Amendment, it’s settled law, and so that is that.
Be that as it may, to the legislators climbing all over themselves to give our students and professors the right to carry concealed weapons on campus, I ask: Really?
As for now, if you have a permit, you can carry your concealed weapon on campus if you get written permission from the university president; with Senate Bill 231, which has passed the Senate and got a hearing today in an Assembly committee, you won’t need permission.
Our universities, which are cutting salaries, jobs and even whole programs, will for years find it difficult to recruit talented faculty. This legislation — and make no mistake, news of its passage will spread quickly — will only make it harder to shed our Dodge City reputation. From my research, it seems only Utah allows anything similar, although other states are getting close to approving campus guns. Conservative Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer — Jan Brewer! — vetoed similar legislation in Arizona.
So, why are lawmakers proceeding?
Some of this would seem to be naked political opportunism, especially for Democrats who don’t want to be tagged with the anti-gun label in a state where gun ownership is considered a civic duty.
The gun lobby, despite near total victory in the past two decades, apparently won’t be satisfied until we all have a gun under our pillow, a gun at a UNLV keg party, a gun on our hip as we walk the Strip.
It’s smart politics — maximalism. Fight until your opponent, his neck under your boot, cries “uncle.”
The National Rifle Association, in a letter of support for this hugely pressing issue of not enough concealed firearms on campus, says it’s a safety issue. Turns out, there are lots of sex offenders near the campuses of UNLV, UNR and College of Southern Nevada, and the law-abiding need their concealed weapons to defend themselves. The reality, however, is that although areas off campus may have pockets of crime, the campuses themselves are quite safe.
Anyway, do guns and our self-defense vigilante fantasists make us safer?
The Harvard School of Public Health reviewed the literature in 2009 and found that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide. (I know, the gun haters at Harvard can’t be trusted.)
But even if you disagree and think guns make us safer, surely you can see how we might hesitate when it comes to college campuses. For one thing, the academy is based on the idea of civil discourse, and somehow it doesn’t feel quite right that one scholar in an intellectual argument about, say, political philosophy, might be armed. Call me crazy.
Let’s turn to more concrete issues of public safety.
According to a survey by American College Health Association, 35 to 40 percent of college students engage in binge drinking during a given two-week period.
Hmmm. Guns, drinking and late-adolescent men who can no longer take out their frustrations on high school football fields. Let the fun begin.
UNLV’s chief of police is against the idea. He’s worried about the whole booze and guns thing and what the presence of concealed weapons might do to the intellectual environment. He’s also concerned about where the guns would be stored on campus; accidental discharges; an assailant overpowering a permitted gun owner and arming himself, and police mistaking a lawfully armed citizen for a threat to public safety and firing on him.
The university presidents and faculty alliance are also against, as is the Nevada System of Higher Education.
But what do they know? This is clearly an issue to be settled by our “citizen legislators” who’ve got future elections to think about.
Discussion: 10 comments so far…
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Ohhh no it's another scary story about how evil guns are... Let's see, we allow 16 year old boys and girls drive by themselves, at 17 with their parent's consent they can join the military and defend our freedom or wait until they're 18 and join on their own...also at 18 they can vote but society makes them wait until they are 21 to experience the evils of alcohol. I'm sorry but I am more nervous of teenagers drinking and driving than I am of someone who has gone through the legal process to obtain their CCW which I would argue puts them into a category of being the most law abiding citizens we have.
Go find something else to scare people about!
Actually Texas did not pass the bill <http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/...>. Also Florida modified a similar measure to exclude college campuses.
This is a non issue for me, but gun availability still occurs when guns are made illegal or even more difficult to obtain. Just look at the homicide rates in DC, Chicago and NYC, three places with the most draconian gun laws.
You are right, there are more important issues to discuss than this however - like how to get the universities to spend their resources effectively to educate students and perform top-notch research.
I dunno, maybe if all students had guns, then people might listen more to their protests not to raise tuition 13% next year and 13% the following year. We'll call it the "Nevada Spring."
You ask a lot of questions in your article, here are some more:
Where are these keg parties on campus?
Would you feel safe in a police station? All cops have guns. What if one of them was "overpowered".
You also make it seem like once\if they pass this law anyone with a gun can walk into campus. This is not true, you need a CCW(concealed weapons license). To get a CCW you need do the following:
1. You must be 21 years old.
2. You must complete the 8 hour CCW class.
3. You must target qualify with each gun you want to appear on your CCW permit.
4. You must not be a fugitive from justice.
5. You must be mentally sound, sane, and competent.
6. You must never have been admitted to a mental health facility.
7. You must not be a habitual user of drugs or alcohol.
8. No felony criminal conviction (regardless of crime or date of occurance).
9. No misdemeanor criminal conviction that involved the use of violence or threats thereof within 3 years prior to submitting your application.
10. No criminal conviction for stalking.
11. No criminal conviction for domestic violence.
12. You may not be under restraining order.
12. You may not have been dishonorably discharged from the US Armed Forces.
13. You must be a US Citizen or Legal Resident Alien with a valid SS#.
14. You must submit a completed application and all supporting documents.
15. You must pay the appropriate fees.
16. You must answer all questions on the application honestly.
What you don't understand, Coolican, is that, if you are going to cut public spending (because all government is bad -- or because we have to eliminate government to save American Liberty), you will reduce the number and hours of policemen. So, to fill the gap, we will have to defend ourselves.
What a waste of the Legislature's time. And here's the real question. Why would any person find it necessary to have a gun on campus? I hope Sandoval has the sense (although I doubt he does) to veto the bill if it's passed. Finally, a note to turbo8. How are you going to differentiate between those who have a CCW and those who don't? Search everyone's bookbag when they walk onto campus? That would require airport-type security.
Turbo8,
A citizen in Nevada does not need a CCW to carry a gun in public. A citizen only needs a CCW to CONCEAL a gun in public.
Therefore, if the same NV gun law apples to the proposed bill, any person could open-holster a firearm on campus without meeting most of the CCW requirements.
Crinvegas,
What is the current policy for checking students for guns?
OpenRange,
List a source stating that the bill calls for open carry on campus.
My understanding is that this is for CCW holders only.
"The gun lobby, despite near total victory in the past two decades, apparently won't be satisfied until we all have a gun under our pillow, a gun at a UNLV keg party, a gun on our hip as we walk the Strip."
I agree and I disagree with this. There are many good fights to be fought. We need to fix the carry situation in several states, especially Illinois and Wisconsin. There are cities that are still trying to enforce or erect unconstitutionally broad gun control laws, most notably New York, Chicago, and Washington D.C. It's just silly that the USPS will not ship guns and ammo when FedEx and UPS will. Those are all more worthy fights than this one and I hope the gun lobby gives them hell. The "near total victory" isn't near enough for almost 1/3 of the country's residents right now. In Nevada, however, I think you are right. Your laws are pretty reasonable.
Criminals don't care if there is a law against guns on campus. They are already criminals.
A law that prohibits guns on campus only insures that non criminals won't have guns.
Armed non criminals don't bother me.
"Give a small boy a hammer, and he will find that everything he encounters needs pounding." Maslow's law of the instrument.
All of you anti-gun people should have paid attention in school. If you did, you would see that allowing college students to carry guns on campus is a great idea.
First, some information you missed in Health class: Being stoned, drunk, or nursing a hangover makes one a much better shot, not to mention these conditions can only sharpen the mind of an untrained kid with a handy pistol, ensuring that no errors in judgement occur as the gun is drawn and fired. (The NRA will back me up on that one. They have statistics and stuff to prove it).
Second, (and I don't believe I actually have to say this but) it's simple elementary school Math:
If 20 bullets flying around a 30' by 30' classroom is unsafe, 300 bullets flying into the same space from all directions is the only way to make it safer. Clearly, the extra 280 bullets will ensure no one gets hurt.
Think about it. It makes perfect sense. If it didn't make sense, I'm sure politicians wouldn't even be considering it. Calm down, folks. What could possibly go wrong?
Dodge City had tougher rules. You had to be a property owner, something to protect. No guns in the saloon or drinking and carrying. Some of the CCW holders I've met are clowns and just want to be cowboys. Should be single shot snub nose 22 caliber only, some fighting chance with a weirdo.
"...allowing college students to carry guns on campus..."
ADWallace -- your reasoning is fatally flawed. So long as you're a citizen of Nevada you are at liberty to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes. You don't need anyone's permission, period. That this legislature is even considering the pretense of "allowing" is a very, very troubling indication of their ignorance.
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." - Ayn Rand (1905-1982)
If Ayn Rand were alive today,she would be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder.
Quoting someone who embraced Rational Egoism (AKA "Rational Selfishness" or "It's all about me, screw the rest of you) and openly rejected Altruism, tells me all I need to know about your motives.
Thanks for sharing.
"We are all brothers under the skin and I, for one, would be willing to skin Humanity to prove it." Ayn Rand
Charming lady.
Over 70 campuses nationwide permit duly-licensed individuals to carry their weapons on campus. There has not been a rash of shootings. The people who go through the licensing process to carry a concealed (or openly-carried, for that matter) are, by and large, responsible law abiding individuals.
http://www.conlaw-bloganon.blogspot.com
I love McGyver. He didn't need a gun.
Well, allowing students to carry weapons on campus will eventually lead to a gun fight between students. Innocent bystanders will be killed. With all the cuts it might be a good thing. It's one creative way to cut class room size. SB 231 really makes Nevadans look primitive. But that's how the old timers roll. Nevada needs some new, young blood. The status quo is killing the people and this state.
Has a licensed CCW holder in NV ever committed a public murder? If no, proceed, if yes, reconsider.
We have bigger issues to discuss.
Another thing about the magical line across which no guns are supposed to cross: Students are students wherever they live. Plenty of college students are licensed to carry a weapon, and live off campus, and carry a weapon wherever they are legally permitted. In some states, these college students can carry into restaurants that serve alcohol, clubs, and even bars. But has there been a rash of murders by CCW permit holders who also happen to be irresponsible college students? No. Because CCW permit holders, by and large, are very responsible individuals, even if they are in college.
One more thing to think about here is graduate students, professors, faculty, and staff. Your laws (which are clearly unconstitutional) prevent all of those people from carrying weapons on campus too. In many cases these are people that are viewed with respect and taken to be highly intelligent and responsible people, but they are being denied their constitutional right to bear arms (And their god given right to self defense) just because of where they work.
http://www.conlaw-bloganon.blogspot.com
The author asks, "Really?" Well, yes, REALLY!
There were probably 1200 bills introduced in our current legislature. Many important issues and some that maybe not so important - frivolous even!
But SB-231 IS an important issue. Read (or better yet, listen) the testimony. The supporting testimony was factual and credible. The opposition fell flat.
Support SB-231.
Coolican misses (or omits on purpose as he poses pro gun) a couple of key points: In order to have a CCW, you have to be at least 21 years old. And being as UNLV is a nontraditional campus and the average student age is 27, MOST are not attending keggers or living on campus. Those who do are most like under the age of 21. He also failed to mention the reason for the bill proposal, aka "Brianna's law"..
Lets look at some hard facts. Americans own 90 million more guns than they did in 1991. Violent crime is down 43%.[2] America has 1/4th as many violent crimes per capita as England, which has the some of the strictest gun laws around, and we've got 1/2 as many violent crimes per capita as Canada, which also has draconian gun laws.[3]
If you resist a robbery with force, then you're statistically much LESS likely to be harmed. [1] And anyway, if you call the cops, they'll be there in 20 minutes. Just soon enough to give you a few chest compressions as you give up the ghost, just for good measure. If you're lucky they might even find enough blood or semen to identify your killer and catch him in a few months, but you'll be long dead. Fight crime; shoot back!
The bottom line? Thomas Jefferson had it right!
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one"
-Thomas Jefferson
Read more: http://conlaw-bloganon.blogspot.com
[1] Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.
[2] http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/...
[3] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...