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Friday, July 8, 2011 | 2:02 a.m.
Regarding the Las Vegas Sun’s Tuesday editorial “Keeping good teachers — Looming pay cuts and teaching to the test make classroom life more daunting.”
As a teacher, I would like to emphasize a point that was missed in the editorial: Nevada teachers, due to bill passage during this past legislative session, will, in the future, be evaluated 50 percent on “student achievement.” The details have yet to be released on what, exactly, that means.
However, considering that because teachers cannot force children to do homework, have no control over students’ natural aptitudes and cannot control the level at which students come into their classes — many are well behind in their skills — the future is beyond daunting; it’s Kafkaesque.
Apparently, Betty stands for the status quo - a continued high dropout rate; students graduating regardless of ability or learning, unprepared to face the "real" world; social promotions resulting in meaningless diplomas; students ignorant of our history and deficient in reading, writing and mathematics; plus no accountability for anyone tasked with "educating" these kids. What a future awaits the unlucky students forced into NV public schools. They don't stand a chance.
Jerry Fink....
Relax.....the fact that many of the students that you described in your little rant can't read, can't write, can't do math and have little knowledge of history makes them strong candidates for membership in the Republican Party....
You know the type I'm talking about, don't you?
The many millions who voted not once, but twice for George W Bush. They voted for "clueless" George because he also had trouble reading, writing, and understanding history
Of course, they all wanted to drink a beer with George.....
"Is the children learning?"
Only "clueless" George knows the answer to that question...
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Once again, glittering generalities have been enacted into law, and they will have predictable results: a muddled result that will prove to be a waste of public money to no end except short-term political propaganda.
Basing compensation on "student achievement" sounds good. But, what, exactly, is "student achievement"? And how, exactly does teacher performance relate to "student achievement"? To leave these unexplored by Legislative Hearings and undefined in the law, means that the law is vague. It will be a source of mischief and a waste of public money.
I have asked this question before. Who does better on student achievement. The AP math teacher who has all of their students pass the math proficiency, or the teacher who raises all of their student's scores, but not all pass the proficiency? How do you use "student achievement" to evaluate a teacher? How do you account for the differences in student's ability? Since many Special Education students are mainstreamed into regular education classes, how do you account for those results?
@lvfacts101. Are teachers the only ones responsible for the low grad rates or lack of learning? What about the parents who don't care if their kids get to school? What about the parents who don't care if the kids do any work, either in the classroom or at home? What about the kids who don't care if they pass or not? What about the kids who don't try to do anything? How do you account for those factors, or is it all the teachers fault? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?
Once again, I would like to reiterate in this forum that NONE of these reforms will solve America's problems in education, hence society. NCLB was introduced at the beginning of the previous decade, and to this day, we are still facing the same problems, probably worst. NCLB requires that by 2014, 100% of students meet standards. What then? Fire all teachers? Close all schools? (I am sure there are many who would celebrate these events.) Any genius out there who can offer alternatives to schools?
What we have in education and society is a disease. As in any disease, we determine the cause(s) of the symptoms to prescribe the correct medicine. What we are doing is applying band-aid to a deep wound that is infected and threatening to poison the whole body.
We prescribe antibiotics; we treat the wound, but unless we remove that which caused to inflict the wound, we will continue with this same discussion until pigs fly.
Unless of course that is what we want to do!
Excellent comments made by Leric Goodman, Tanker & ASadTeacher.....
Thank you for your posts....
@ El Lobo,,the future students can't read, do math, know history, can't read a map, can't write, can't give change at a fast food joint,,,yup, sounds like FUTURE DEMOCRATS TO ME!!!
The education world in Nevada reminds me of an old W joke.
Al Gore and W were camped out one night and Gore played a trick on W. He said, "George, I'm going to give you a chance to show me your stuff. I'll let you hit me as hard as you can."
Gore stood next to an old Oak tree and held his hand out. "Alright, George, HIT MY HAND!"
W swung and, as he did, Al pulled his hand away and W smashed his knuckles on the tree.
So now W came up with own trick and called it NCLB. And it goes like this, "Alright Americuh, I'll give you a chance to show me yer stuff."
He held his hand in front of his face and said, "Hit my hand!" And then when all the kids flunked all the tests he pulled his hand away and all the built-up frustration and lost potential in what was once the greatest country in the world fell soft on his goofy grin and nothing mattered then or now.
We have lost the link to the future. Especially in Nevada where parents don't value learning for their children because their parents never did, where illegals outnumber locals in the land of the free and home of the itinerant, and where things are just fine as they are for the only business in town, the gamblin drunken slut-huntin business in cheapo rooms, cheapo food and gobs of cheapo booze.
Airweare- You stated "We have lost the link to the future". What is this "we" that your throwing round.....you don't even live here, never have. You can't assume Reno back in 2002 is the same as Las Vegas today. Don't pretend you know Las Vegas.
You have probably eaten steak from some of my ranches, ref. My families still farm there and being 'el viejo,' my input actually still matters a bit. But don't let the facts deter you from your opinions about who your neighbors are or what contribution they may have on your life.
"What is this "we" that your (sic) throwing round" - what an educated workforce in Nevada writes!
I won't pretend to know Las Vegas if you don't pretend to know either me or the English language. Deal or no deal?
BTW, I beat your rate and you're missing out.
@Airweare. Question for you. On May 26th of this year, you stated that you "make about 3 times a teacher salary now" however on June 29th you stated "I do 6 days/week of 2 or 3 a day making a teacher salary in a few weeks of having waay more fun than a teacher has all year".
Which is it? Do you make about 3 times a teacher salary or do you make a teacher's salary in a few weeks? Clear this up for us. The links to these contradictory statements are below.
Thanks!
Link below is Airweare's post on May 26th , 2011 at 1:49pm stating he "makes about 3 times a teacher salary now".
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/may...
Link below is Airweare's post on June 29th , 2011 at 5:07am stating "I do 6 days/week of 2 or 3 a day making a teacher salary in a few weeks of having waay more fun than a teacher has all year".
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jun...
Ref,
I actually do spend some time there, blog frequently there along with a few other places, pay for kids and grandkids, and some property tax in some adjacent states also.
I even go to a few shows there though I very infrequently play much music there anymore.
You seem protective of your education system, ref. Tell us why that is. Do you have a stake in what happens to the failing culture and wish to keep it all in the hands of local smart people such as yourself?? hahaha
Sure Boli. I make good money when I work. When I work more, I make more. And when I don't work, I don't make money. Questions??
And you, Boli. Do you play a lot of music? Travel? Write? Sing? Or do you just inquire about the lives of others, read their old posts and wonder what he's up to now??
I love my jobs. I do what I like to do. Have you ever heard the line that ends in ..pursuit of happiness? Is this what makes you happy?? hahaha
Why no questions about my methane digester escapades in indonesia, China or India?? There are ~ 60,000,000 (sixty million) farms world-wide using simple techniques for capturing methane from manure slurry. I tried and tried to get Iowa State and Mizzou interested in the energy potentials, but they didn't care much. India grubbed it up. The rest is history! questions, boys?
@Airweare. I was just curious why you gave two different accounts of your income relative to a teacher's salary, that's all. I don't see why you think it's relevant to bring up what you earn relative to a teacher's salary at all whether it's 3 times or 11 times a teacher's salary, whichever is accurate. The average "Energy Auditor" yearly salary however is $37K in the U.S. so you make 13 times the average which is truly amazing! You must do a great job for your clients.
Boli,
here's what I said...
"Thank you ShannonK for correctly interpreting my simple statements about what teachers are capable of doing. I recognize that some are incapable of understanding without casting aspersions, but then there are folks like Tanker who suggests that perhaps I am not the only one whose involvement with schools has been rewarding far beyond what the miserable paycheck supplies. I began teaching when the salary provided me about $300 a month for full time teaching in public schools as a certified teacher.
The income from forensic investigations into sick homes that took lives is not to brag but rather to inform folks that once a teacher does not mean always a teacher. And to point out the potentials for teachers beyond the pittance they get for their life work.
My background in building provided me the impetus to pursue other interests like the effort in providing third world rural communities some advantages of digesting manure to produce methane to use for cooking, electricity and hot water. Until recently many landslides were the consequence of deforestation along with depleted topsoil and significant lung disease and early death from wood smoke."
And again, I am not employed as an energy auditor. I perform fancy schmancy Energy Star Comprehensive Energy Audits so the homeowners can get rebates on the work done to their homes.
And I perform them as a contractor, not as an employee. The numbers you cite are for employees.
Yes I make $500 for a 3 hour gig and then get a piece of the job down the road.
How many I choose to do is up to me; most teachers make 300 or so a day teaching; PhDs with twenty years, a bit more; and BAs with five or fewer years, a bit less. I do 2 or 3 gigs a day, some weeks 6 days and I earn a fair income, but I do not work all the time. If you ever get to be in your 60s, maybe you'll value time differently also. I sail, travel, fly, write, read, play music, sing and cook, clean, blog, fish, hunt and help neighbors do stuff. I have parties and entertain.
The article I wrote about was referring to teachers wages. I mentioned that teachers outside the classroom can do better. Some commenters disagreed, saying teachers can't do anything but teach!
I merely used my experiences making good dough in the private (non-school market) as an example and ShannonK mentioned that was my comment, not to brag, just saying that teachers aren't to be confined to the pigeonhole of the classroom. The money I make depends on how much I work. I would think telling you that I am a contractor would have explained the facts, but it's hard to tell from the Sun pages how ignorant some people are of how things actually are in the world.
Ya see, many people do NOT work for other people. They are called contractors. They do something and charge for it. Other people have jobs and do what they are told to do. There is a difference.
@Airweare- But if you look at the post on May 26th , 2011 at 1:49pm you wrote the following:
"I make about 3 times a teacher salary now, but I still use the same skills, mostly people skills, analytical skills, information transfer and skill transfer skills in a totally different field".
Then on on June 29th , 2011 at 5:07am you wrote:
"They pay me gobs to do simple and very cool stuff that almost any science teacher would find thrilling along with the $500 a piece plus 10% of the job. I do 6 days/week of 2 or 3 a day making a teacher salary in a few weeks of having waay more fun than a teacher has all year".
There is a big difference between "3 times a teacher's yearly salary" and "making a teacher salary in a few weeks". The difference in yearly salary is $153K yearly versus $540K so I hope you understood why I was confused.
Sorry you feel that others who post here are ignorant but it's your right to feel the way you do. Hopefully your future posts will not contradict one of your previous posts.
Boli, this is tiresome. The $540,000 is an extrapolation. It is a number which you invented. I.e., you multiplied a weekly figure times a time factor. For the last time, I do NOT work all the time. I work when I want to. I haven't worked more than forty weeks a year for several years. Please try to read what I have written for you.
One more time. I work as a contractor. I do what I do as a self-employed individual. This means that when I wish to go to Hong Kong or Bali, I go. I set my own schedules.
I never ever said I make over $500,000 a year. It so happens that I do make much more than that, but it's a long story so don't worry about it now. I am referring to my work as a contractor performing Home Performance audits. It was a number which you arrived at by multiplying some number times another number, both of which seem a bit beyond your scope as you neither know what an Energy Star Home Performance audit is, why it's done, how or what skills or equipment might be involved nor how much BETTER at this stuff I happen to be than almost anyone on the planet right now. I am not kinda good at this business.
I never quoted a yearly salary. It was you who came up with that number. Do you understand there is a difference yet?
Does your mom know you're on here?
"Sorry you feel that others who post here are ignorant but it's your right to feel the way you do. Hopefully your future posts will not contradict one of your previous posts."
Permit me. Sentence #1...Thank you for granting me the right to have my feelings.
Second sentence says that my future posts will not contradict one of my previous posts HOPEFULLY. Now my questions are these:
Where did I contradict? Nowhere did I say I make $540,000 a year doing these gigs. In fact you, BOLI, are the one making that claim. All I said is that I make several times what teachers make, and I said this consistently with absolutely no mention whatsoever of HOW MUCH. The quantities cited are your own constructs. Do NOT assign them to me. I did not make those claims; you did.
Secondly. What you are trying to say and failing miserably with your hopefully sentence is that it is YOUR hope that I would not contradict myself, right? Now that it's clear any contradiction was YOUR making, and not mine, let's deal with the language.
Hopefully is wrong here. Future posts do not 'hopefully' do anything. What you were trying to say is "I hope your future posts do not contradict previous posts." Am I right?
BTW, none of my posts contradict. You simply have extrapolated and found different annual numbers based on faulty logic, poor reading comprehension and an abysmal lack of respect for someone whose life you have chosen to assail from the point of view of a child with preconceived ideas of what real people do. I understand your attacks and your youthful ignorance. And so I of course forgive you for being stupid. And for being illiterate. You're probably just some middle school kid with a computer and a calculator trying to find out how the world is. And you thought you'd pick on a geezer and see if you could blame him for doing something he didn't do. I hope you learned something. Bye now.
Airweare,
So if I extract this statement from your previous post:
"They pay me gobs to do simple and very cool stuff that almost any science teacher would find thrilling along with the $500 a piece plus 10% of the job. I do 6 days/week of 2 or 3 a day making a teacher salary in a few weeks of having waay more fun than a teacher has all year".
.....and extract this statement from your post above:
"I do NOT work all the time. I work when I want to. I haven't worked more than forty weeks a year for several years".
The conclusion based on these statements from you would be:
"you work "6 days/week of 2 or 3 a day making a teacher salary" but you "do NOT work all the time. I work when I want to. I haven't worked more than forty weeks a year for several years".
Got it.
Betty Buehler is right about the underachieving status of most Nevada kids arriving at schools. Their backgrounds are often far worse than kids in most other places; their genetic make-up, significantly lower; their reading background, quite a bit worse; their math skill, miserable; their acculturation level and social skills, lacking in many respects.
My heart goes out to the elementary teachers, especially those out of college for only five or ten years and doing the very best they can to bring the little ones into a developmental mode so they can achieve while raising a family of their own. It's rather frustrating work, and as Betty B. points out, daunting. Most teachers most other places have students with considerably greater potentials and noticeably more improved skill sets.