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StumbleLETTER TO THE EDITOR:
Equal protection of the law matters
Friday, Sept. 3, 2010 | 2:05 a.m.
In her Tuesday letter to the editor, headlined “Mosque backers misunderstand our Bill of Rights,” Jane Ham writes that there “is no dispute that Muslims have a right to practice their religion. But our Constitution doesn’t give them the right to build their mosque anywhere they please. They have a right to apply for a building permit, which is subject to New York City ordinances.”
If people were to read further in the Constitution, they would find the 14th Amendment, which guarantees equal protection of the law.
Let’s be honest. If a Jew or Christian committed a bombing, would there be an outcry to prohibit building a synagogue or church two blocks from that bombing? The only reason for opposition to the mosque is that the horrific act of 9/11 was committed by Muslims. Should all Muslims now be considered bombers, or should we be guided by the Constitution and apply equal protection of the law?
We are not like the theocratic countries ruled by Sharia or other religious laws that would discriminate against anyone whose beliefs differ from the one accepted belief. To protect our right to our own religious beliefs, we must be vigilant in preventing the co-mingling of religion and government and we must not succumb to the fear-mongering of the demagogues who seek to make the United States a theocracy.
Discussion: 4 comments so far…
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Thank you Mel Lipman.
The Muslims have no shame for what the bombers did. In all the Muslim dominated countries they cheered and danced in the streets when shown the movies of the Twin Towers going down. Just like all the African-Americans did when OJ Simpson was acquitted of mudering his wife. Lets face it folks, we live in a racist world. That's the way God wanted it.
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A letter of reason and thought and truth
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This letter should be appreciated. One has to know not all Muslins in any way support extremists and to generalize just makes you look stupid and uninformed
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This building is not a Mosque, but it has become a political football for the looney right wingers who have also made the Arizona border a political football - be glad Lou Dobbs is now fired and gone from TV never to be heard from again
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Have a good one!
"The only reason for opposition to the mosque is that the horrific act was committed by Muslims."
Mel you are getting as bad as a politician, spouting out lies, inuendoes, and conspiracy theories like they were proven fact.
Outside of the news media on that fateful day announcing that al Qaeda was responsible for the events of 9/11, no federal investigation
ever took place.
Far too many events took place before, during and after 9/11, that show that the planes were not the deciding factor that caused the 3 towers to collapse.
Building 7 wasn't hit by a plane, but it fell at close to freefall speed as it came straight down into its footprint.
Building 7 wasn't hit by a plane but there was molten metal found under the base of the structure 30 days after it fell.
To many discrepancies have never been proven one way or the other but as we were lied to about Iran, the Bush Administration threw more lies to the the people of the United States about al Qaeda, Afghanistan, the Taliban, and Iraq.
Our citizens jumped on the Bush blame game wagon as our country had never experienced such a tragedy in our country as this and we needed someone to blame, and punish.
Bush and company fed us the right soundbites, and we believed every word they said.
Many of the first responders that survived that day heard explosions as each building fell. They have been silenced by the media. Close to 70,000 relitives of citizens that died that day and first responders a year ago banded together and came up with enough signatures to have the need of an investigation put on a ballot in New York to be voted on to open a trial on the events that took place before, during, and after 9/11. Even though they had enough signatures, New York didn't want an investigation.
Since 9/11/01 family members have been wanting to find out the truth, they know that what we were told by the Bush Administration was a lie, they want the facts exposed so they can go on with their lives.
If Equal protection mattered we would not have a Progressive Income Tax and Harry Reid and Cris Dodd would have no more power than any freshman senator.
Nez:
Equal protection does not mean all people are treated the exact same way. Over 140 years, the courts have created a series of tests on whether laws which apply differently to different classes of people pass the equal protection test. In general, laws may "classify" so long as there is a rational basis for the classification. However, if the class that has lowered rights or increased burdens is a "suspect" class, i.e. one which has been the subject of discrimination, then the classification must be supported by a "compelling interest". Wealth has never been viewed as a "suspect" classification so the taxation of the wealthy at higher rates is valid if there is a rational basis for progressive rates, then the law is valid.
In the recent federal court case overturning Prop 8 in CA, the court's written decision contains a very good analysis of how interpretation of equal protection clause works and the current state of the law. Its very long (135 double spaced pages) and might be boring to a lay person but if you have interest in constitutional law, it is worth your time.
As equal protection relates to the situation in lower manhattan, courts have uniformly held that no governmental action may be taken where the basis of the action is the religious affiliation of the group against whom the action is taken unless it can demonstrate a compelling interest, not merely a rational basis.
But the issue is really more of a 1st amendment issue than an equal protection issue. Governments may prescribe zoning and use restrictions which are neutral to religion. So a city may restrict the construction in a specific area of all buildings which might be used for congregating, where roads, parking etc are inadequate for large numbers of people, i.e. neutral to the religious use. However zoning cannot ban religious buildings from an area even if it applies to all religions if ban doe not ban similar structures in that area.
Hss6: You are saying that class warfare is ok and the will of the people does'nt matter.
The country is lost is that is the case.
rofl, can't you read?
I'm saying that the government can classify people. Like people who can't see can't have drivers licenses because there's a rational basis. Or people with criminal records can't have guns. And people that can afford to pay taxes have to pay taxes.
If you think its class warfare to have progressive rates, more power to you.
The letter writer hit the nail on the head...
The statement saying the following gets to the very essence of the disagreement:
"Should all Muslims now be considered bombers, or should we be guided by the Constitution and apply equal protection of the law?"
Any one with a shade of common sense and fair play knows the answer to that question.
Allow the Mosque to be built....This is still America!
It is not discrimination to require those that control society to contribute for that control and for the elements of our society that permit them to be wealthy. The wealthy are wealthy, just because they are smart or talented or whatever. The are wealthy because our tax dollars pay for the highways and security and education that are essential elements of a culture in which success is possible. And since the wealthy get the most benefit out of all those things provided by our society, it is, in the words of the case law, RATIONAL to require them to pay more for that higher benefit. And that is not socialism or communism or any other perjorative ism.
And all that in the context that the wealthy control every element of our society, the government, the media, the educational resources, the financial system. And they do not beleive in a level playing field and will do anything, say anything to protect and enhance their advantage. Oh they let us play our blogity blogity games because, in reality no one pays attention, no one listens and no one's mind is made up because only hte passionate are here.
CBO says that only 2% of the country earn more than 250K. Well way less than 1% earn $1M and those aren't really the wealthy. That tiny fraction make the rules and stack the deck, and convince you people that whats good for them is good for you. If you will give them your money, let then pay no taxes, they will hire you at minimum wage. And if you borrow $50K from their banks to get a degree, then they'll pay you enough to get by but only after you pay them back the $50K.
For example, their argument against the "death tax" is that it breaks up small businesses. That is a giant f***ing lie but the biggest lies are the easiest to believe. The estate tax exemption last year was $3M dollars. So a couple with a business worth $6M pay no estate tax. NONE. Is a business that's really worth $6M a small business? And If the biz is worth say $10,000,000 then the tax could be as high as $2M. They don't have to sell the business because the tax laws permit them to pay the tax over a 15 year period!!!!!
You are being lied to by your Masters!
gbigs is very talented. He knows how to cut and paste.Over and over and over again. He apparently is smart enough to think that blind repitition is an effective debate style.
Let's assume that Patrick Gibbons' philosophy is correct, i.e. that individuals always act in their perceived best interest and apply that to the Meida. Fox is owned by NewCorp and managed through its Board of Directors. Taht board is controlled by one man and the company is owned virtually all by two men, one is an Australian and the other a Saudi prince. The Directors actually have their jobs at the whim of Murdoch. On the other hand, MSNBC is owned by GE, a publicly held company where the Board serves at the pleasure of a diverse set of shareholders, mostly mutual funds and Pensions. So in one case policy is guided by one man's intersts and the other is guided by want is best for a diverse group. Hmmmmm, which is more likely to managed for the benefit of the many as opposed to the one.
Lets look at political contributions. NewsCorp gave $1M to Republicans. MSNBC have $125K to both the Democrats and the Republicans. Hmmmmmm. Which is evidence of bias?
I nominate gbigs as the most idiotic poster on this thread. Do I hear a second?
gbigs and gogo should both just STFU!!!!
I'm just happy we finally found a religion that dims can support.
gbigs using your criteria for judging a religion, any religion in which a practitioner wants to kill a nonbeliever is an evil religion. Hmmmmm. Using that criteria how would you just Christianity and its practitioners killing doctors and bombing clinics?
All religions have zealots who urge or practice assasination of those it views as enemies, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hindu. If it is appropriate to tar a whole religion with the craziness of its zealots, then why not all religions.
Or maybe we should only decry those religions whose holy books encourage outrageous immoral conduct? Ever read Leviticus?
You probably view any anti christian views as treason because everyone knows we are a Christian Nation. I know we are because Beck says so, and he heard it from god.
I personally pray to the tooth fairy and think that anyone who doesn't is an atheistic criminal.
I was born a [christian] and raised a [christian] and remained a [christian] until I reached the age of reason. -- George Carlin
Most of the same anti-mosque people will be out in force to oppose Mitt Romeney in the Republican primary because of his religion.
But the real fear of the elites isn't that Romney is LDS but that he isn't against universal health care.
Mel Lipman, Thanks for a well written and objective letter. I agree with all of what you said except the last word "theocracy."
The radical extremist non-traditional republicans will use anybody and everybody to achieve their final end game.
What the extremist fringe of the non-traditional republican party really want is National Socialism. They want to be the sole political power in the USA married to the Wall St. Fraudsters, the rich and very rich.
Hitler and his despicable Nazi's manipulated, dominated, and then controlled various segments of German society-religion, civil service, unions, educational institutions, police, military,press, etc.....
Read"The 12 Year Reich" by Grunberger to gain an insight.
If you want your life controlled by those who are totalitarian, corrupt, and incompetent then vote for the radical extremist fringe that has taken over the republican party.
If you like being lied to over and over then vote for those that have been telling lies, even preposterous lies, and repeating them over and over to brainwash you, then vote for the non-traditional lying republicans.
gbigs why is that a handful of alleged crimes of terror by Muslims means all Muslims are evil but crimes by Christians don't mean anything about Christians. There is much violence preached in the christians holy book as there is in the Muslim holy book.
And what about all the Muslims killed and imprisoned by Christians, and what about all the protestants killed by catholics and vice versa? What about the provisions in the bible that say adulterers shall be put to death. What about the provision in the bible that says the same law shall apply to aliens as to natives? Christianity isn't backwards?
Please understand that my view is that of the Constitution, that all people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, all people regardless of their faith. You on the other hand believe that one can and should discriminate against whole peoples based on their faith and based on the actions of other members of their faith rather than on their individual actions. That is a very unAmerican attitude and your views give sustenance to the enemies of our country and so you are unpatriotic.
gbigs, let me put it another way:
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." All you do is cast stones. I'm skeptical that you are without sin.
"Judge not lest you be judged." You seem to be the all knowing judge of who is worthy and who is not.
Do you see yourself as a Christian?
You are right it is about respect, which you are completely lacking because you think your bigoted views of Islam have to control. You're views are based solely on your disrespect for Islam and its practitioners regardless of their nationality or attitudes to America.
Its funny that even among 9/11 victims there a significant number who do not see relocating the community center as an issue of respect for them but one of tolerance and the need to set aside intolerance. But you go right on being "right" and the rest of us promise not to laugh at you.
TonyCrago,
Say what you want, the community center *includes* a mosque, pure and simple. No one connected to the project denies that, and that information is being put out by them. If in fact it were *only* a community center I doubt there would be so much of an uproar.
That is not to say that I think the argument against the project is correct. But I am not going to try to refute it by saying it is not a mosque because it is.
When there can be a Cathedral and a synagogue in Mecca and Medina I will withdraw my objections to a victory mosque.
Maybe we should treat Islam the way they treat others, In Pakistan and all over the Middle East there are gangs of Muslims go on Christian bashing rampages or as they call it Jew hunts where they go door to door to find and inflict as much pain and misery as possible. I watched this in 7 different countries over the last 6 years.
Religious tolerance does not exist in the majority of Islam.
gbigs writes:
"again. you are always good for ignoring the point, and finding a juvenile way to reiterate your idiocy. RESPECT is not something you apparently understand."
gbigs is a Christian who carefully follows the teachings of the Christian church:
that is why he hates Muslims with a passion--apparently because Christ taught hatred, not love of one's neighbor
that is why he hates Democrats--see above
that is why he hates Obama--see above
that is why he NEVER turns the other cheek--because apparently Christ never did
that is why he continually throws stones at Islam--because apparently Christ would not have liked Islam either
that is why he is against the 14th Ammendment--because Christ would have been against it, and against freedom of religion in general.
Yes, love, tolerance, open-mindedness, peace--it's all there.
Not hatred, intolerance, close-mindedness, and war.
gbigs--you are a true disciple of Christ and his teachings.
You make us all proud.
AP
Oh--I forgot about compassion and forgiveness.
The opposite of hatred and holding a grudge.
But I guess you pretty well have those covered.
AP
The right wing puppet blogger's opinions are as useless as teats on a boar hawg!
These "Things" have adopted the Nazi's propaganda "Big Lie"--tell lies, preposterous lies, and repeat them over and over to make people believe them.
Who do these "Things" think they are? Why do they tell lie after lie to their fellow Nevada citizens? Do they think we are stupid? Do they think they can brainwash us?
Why is it , that these "Things" have no "SHAME?"
Gosh, I guess you just chose to believe that evolution is not true all on your own?
You arrived at that conclusion based on your exhaustive study of the subject?
I'd be curious to know the links to the studies that prove your point.
Or are there none?
The fact that you and Sharron Angle both believe that if a girl is raped by her father that she should not be allowed to have an abortion has nothing to do with the church as well?
Actually, I would feel comforted to learn that you are not religious.
Because I'd hate to blame your hatred and dogmatic beliefs on the teachings of any particular church.
AP
Yep, I'm a global warming "cultist," just like the academy of sciences of all the G8 nations are too. At least I'm in good company.
Ditto for evolution.
How about you?
http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/060720...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/...
AP
"When there can be a Cathedral and a synagogue in Mecca and Medina I will withdraw my objections to a victory mosque."
Sure, makes total sense. Let's see--Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship supported by the U.S. because the U.S. likes cheap oil.
So we should abandon our Constitution and follow the model of a dictatorship--is that correct?
What makes your comment even more interesting is that supposedly one of the reasons Bin Laden has attacked the U.S. repeatedly is because of our support of the Saudi dictatorship. 15 of the 19 9-11 hi-jackers were not surprisingly from Saudi Arabia.
Hmmmm.
AP
gbigs, why don't you go back to watching the Glenn Beck Comedy Hour, and soon there will be cartoons on, so there WILL be something on that you can understand and relate to. IDIOT.
Reid's doesn't have to run in South Carolina, Mitt does. What is his opinion on the mosque?
Well teapartier's it's the end of the week.
Who ya gonna hate next week?
Oh I'm sorry you haven't had a chance to get your talking points from Fox yet?
Lets see; last week it was the Muslims AGAIN. Week before that it was anchor babies. week before that it was the illegal's. Week before that it was gays. And of course we must not forget all those people you always hate: blacks,Latino's, liberals,democrats,Obama,
women who get uppity,unions,teachers, fireman,government workers,
,Jews,Rino's,the educated,
Asians,Arabs,Europeans, and of course the Clinton's.
Have I left out anyone? Or Is there anyone left you don't hate? Real peculiar how you can remember to hate all those people but can't remember who it was that brought America to the state it is in.
A mind is a terrible thing to lose! I have contributed to the teaparty amnesia fund.
Freedom of Religion gives the Muslim's the right to build their Mosque. -WHEN America changes it's values with knee jerk reactions such as the Patriot Act and preventing Mosque's from being built the terrorist's really do win. That's WHY the torture allowed and used under Bush was such a foolish mistake; it showed us to be the cruel oppressor that the Islamic terrorist claim us to be; and We proved their point. They way for America to prevail is by remaining true to our values and beliefs.
There are LOTS of things our system allows that we don't like; I don't like teapartier's carrying signs of Obama dressed in a Nazi uniform, and calling the President a Marxist. But I'll defend your right to do that. Should we not let the Catholics build any more churches? They've been responsible for some egregious acts of late. How bout Synagogues? The Israelis do some bad things too. What about the Southern Baptist's who threw bombs into occupied churches in the south in the 60's? You can see the "slippery slop". In America either we hold the torch high OR we don't.
We won't defeat Islamic terrorism with bombs and bullets- we WILL defeat it American Hearts and American Values and The American governmental system of equal justice for all- guaranteed by the Constitution.
One thing I love about you righties-your consistency! You all supported the war-you bought the lies one after the other about Hussein being responsible for 911, and WMD's, Then Cheney's famous "insurgency is in it's last throes" statement. (-we only lost another 4000 kids AFTER that statement). Then when no WMD's were found; -the reason given as to why we were there changed to Iraqi Freedom. So righties you think it was just a great thing to free the Iraqi Muslims-but think that American Muslims should not be allowed to build on property they lawfully purchased in New York. Ah consistency
How is it you righties adjust your beliefs on a daily basis?
Your "convictions" are as shallow as your memories. In case you have forgotten-One of the fundamental differences in the two parties are property rights-
Why Rand Paul thinks private a business should be able to serve whoever they want; as most of you do.
In case you have forgotten, YOU believe property rights are sacrosanct.
However, I guess your beliefs only apply to whom you want them to.
The Muslims OWN the property- now all of a sudden you change your "beliefs" to protect the feelings of the some people. HEY, weren't you just calling the left "bleeding hearts"?
What do feelings have to do with anything?
Do you people have ANY belief's that ARE NOT HYPOCRITICAL?
The conservative's ideas are so morally bankrupt it is just beyond belief!
Mr. R.E.Nostarman.
Start reading the whole thing.
renostarman, Thank you for your truthful and objective posts. The boot licking puppet wingnut bloggers have no respect for any truths, all they are interested in are telling lies, even preposterous lies, and re3peating them over and over.
They have adopted the propaganda techniques of Herr Hitler and Herr Goebbels "Big Lie."
These "Things" have no respect for their fellow Nevadans. They think they are Elite and have the right to tell lies to their fellow citizens.
These "Things have no "SHAME!"