Facebook
Fark
Digg
Reddit
Stumble
Saturday, May 29, 2010 | 2:01 a.m.
Sun archives
- Hospital ER reopens after fatal police shooting (3-11-2009)
How’s this for an ill-conceived emergency preparedness drill? An off-duty cop pretending to be a terrorist stormed into a hospital intensive care unit brandishing a handgun, which he pointed at nurses while herding them down a corridor and into a room.
There, after harrowing moments, he explained that the whole caper was a training exercise.
The staff at St. Rose Dominican Hospitals-Siena Campus, where the incident took place Monday morning, found the exercise more traumatizing than instructive.
Hospital employees would have been justified in fearing for their lives.
Just last year, Henderson police shot and killed an armed, hostile man in the emergency room. So it would make sense that security and emergency preparedness have been a focus at the hospital.
But in Monday’s incident, which occurred in a unit that houses the hospital’s sickest patients, nurses, patients and their families did not know it was a drill, said Renee Ruiz, organizer of the California Nurses Association, which represents staff at the hospital.
“There are significant safety issues here,” Ruiz said. “We would never condone a drill like this. We put the safety of the patients and nurses and hospital staff first and foremost.”
Ruiz said the union is investigating the incident. Many people saw the gunman, she said, and the union is gathering statements and talking to hospital administrators.
Andy North, director of public policy and external affairs for the hospital, apologized for any distress caused by the incident. There’s been an “ongoing effort to try and make (emergency preparedness drills) as realistic as possible,” he said, but the goal is not to scare or harm anyone.
He said as many as 10 employees were involved in the incident and no one was hurt. The actor was from a local police department, North said.
The staff was supposed to have been told in advance of the exercise, but there was a “disconnect,” North said. That won’t happen again, he said.
State regulators who license hospitals said Friday the incident may warrant investigation, depending on whether patient care was compromised.
what would have happened if a person with a concealed weapons permit happened to be there and pulled his gun and shot the off duty cop thinking it was for real? Why was the off duty police pointing a gun at anyone even in a drill.
Disconnect? they can't even admit they screwed up.
It's just a chapter in the Stephen King Novel we're living in!!!
NO need to be alarmed!
Go about your business; YOU are part of it TOO!!!
NEVADA???
Heck no!
We live in a state of Incredulity.
You just cannot make this stuff up!
This is how undercover cops get shot. It's a Darwin thing.
We need a new Sheriff and some kind of pre-employment IQ testing in the worst way....
Homeland Insecurity
Vegasm,
You are assuming the cop belonged to Metro. We don't know. The hospital is in Henderson, which has its own police department.
thats what u get with poor training and zero common sense
Great. Traumatize the nurses and then expect them to go right back to work taking care of patients in critical condition.
ls1 also makes an excellent point about the risk that off duty cop took in actually getting shot by someone thinking this was real since the hospital couldn't be bothered to notify anyone that there was going to be a drill.
"Great drill guys! Next time...pediatrics!"
In the ICU? Are you freakin' kidding me? Why not the Cardiac Care Unit and make some beds available? The stupidity of some folks is beyond belief!
Are nurses who belong to a union able to sue independently? If so, JACKPOTS all around at the hospital!
...poor management manifests itself in the most peculiar ways...and we continue to ask ourselves 'who' is in charge?...too bad we don't get to see all of the other idiotic management decisions, as most staff just roll their eyes and go forward with their work day...bad managers are tolerated in most economies, but in this one?...shouldn't most companies try something new?...oh yeah, who will make THAT decision?...we are doomed...this was just one of thousands of examples...
i tell you what...this could have ended VERY badly.
someone should lose their job over this. and if you listen REALLY closely you can hear the ambulance chasing attorneys licking their chops.
This story is almost unbelievable.
The terrorist have won.
There is no question that lawsuits will emanate from this episode. I look forward to reading about some nice, fat settlements.
What a bunch of total morons.......That law suit that will come out of this will be worth reading.That cop was damn lucky no one was a brave soul and attempted to murder him.Fire the moron who thought this one up.
Easy for the hospital to refer the the gunman as an actor now. I feel sorry for the employees and customers inside the place. Which incompetent employee is losing their job for this BLUNDER.
Coming on the heels of the robbery at the doctor's office recently, you just hafta MARVEL @ the sheer audacity of such folly.
"Only in Las Vegas" is applicable to almost EVERYTHING that happens here....
Bizarre is the new NORMAL.
When you come to Vegas, baby, you slide down Alice's rabbit hole.
This mirrors a real life incident which occurred at Desert Springs in the late 90's - a man came into the ICU, shot his wife and then committed suicide. The staff was traumatized beyond belief, the amount of blood everywhere and the chaos of police, administration, etc was horrible for the staff and patients.
While such an incident can occur, most hospital staff is unaccustomed to traumatic situations happening in front of them. Until you have lived through such an incident, you simply don't understand the toll it takes on staff, patients, etc.
This "experiment" was in extreme bad taste and whomever thought it up should be fired and never, ever work in the healthcare field again. They lack a soul.
Somebody needs to be fired over this. How stupid can people be? What if somebody had shot him or hit him with a lethal dose of something in a syringe or something? What about other forms of panic? Seriously, fire the people who thought this was a good idea.
exactly how long ago was it when you were able to be fired if your did something stupid, and went home with a story when something stupid was done to you. When people were no longer able to be fired for stupidity for fear of lawsuits etc, you get people who sue for having to put up with it "so it doesn't happen again." Bad cycle we will never get out of. Wait until the never fail a student problem really hits the fan.
Are government at work again.
STUPID,STUPID,STUPID,
Henderson!! Who would have thunk? If I was a nurse, I would be dialing L for lawsuit. This is not 3rd world, and what self respecting terrorist would invade a Henderson Hospital? What if some arab dude with rag on his head, had a tummy ache and needed to go to emergency room? \
For every hundred acts like these; acts that only hack at the branches of the problem, hopefully someone can get to the root. Until then, we will keep spinning, and finally, like Sambo, turn into a flat pancake. Hacking at branches has given us, a big deficit, and high gas prices. Cutting out the root, will bring us fresh air, and Unity. When you drill, make sure your a dentist, don't be going around with guns in hospitals. Please. Good thing he didn't get clobbered with a bedpan, I say. If I ever get sick, I hope it ain't around Henderson, Fly me to Utah.
Our government is not the St. Rose Hospital system.
Stupid. Just stupid. How's this for a knee-jerk reaction: Fire thc cop, any Administrators involved and the Numb Skull who thought of this drill. Lame-brains all.
Here the police agency and its agent was the "terrorist" -- what used to be called an unorganized, armed thug intent on revenge/mayhem.
ls1 -- good call on how an armed citizen would have reacted, and properly.
Funny how the reporter doesn't even know which police agency sent this thug. Get used to it, People -- we live in a police state.
"Fear is the foundation of most governments." - John Adams, 1776 "Thoughts on Government"
what would have happened if another off duty cop had shot him?
Would a citizen that killed this man be held responsible? Think about it, even another off duty cop or a private citizen may have dropped this guy like a rock thinking they were saving lives.
Killer...could not agree more - we truly ARE in a Police State...we have the highest per capita incarceration rate in the Western World because we cannot move without breaking an arbitrary law...and, lest we forget as we chastise St. Rose's management decision, there was an "off duty cop" who thought it was a good idea to play terrorist in a hospital ICU...that same cop is now ON DUTY terrorizing the citizens of Las Vegas...probably just pulled over some unfortunate 52 year old woman on her way to the grocery who mistakenly crossed a solid white line, or inadvetently was traveling 71 MPH down a hill, or failed to signal a lane change or...or...or...some other minor traffic infraction...saw it three times this morning on I-215 between Green Valley and I-15...the people 'we' have hired as our 'protectors' scare the hell outta me...
markp, neiman1, Purgatory -- all excellent points, with an extra cookie to Purgatory. Every police officer takes an oath, his promise to We the People to the effect he is a guardian of our individual rights which he will never violate. Unfortunately, as those like Radley Balko's work has shown, the police and their keepers are now the apex predators.
One can peruse some of Balko's excellent work online --
http://find.cato.org/search?q=Radley+Bal...
Especially his "Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America" -- http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_...
"I am persuaded myself that the good sense of the people will always be found to be the best army... Among the [European governments], under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves & sheep. I do not exaggerate. This is a true picture of Europe. ... If once [our people] become inattentive to the public affairs, you & I, & Congress & Assemblies, judges & governors shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions; and experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the governments of Europe, and to the general prey of the rich on the poor." -- Thomas Jefferson, from his letter to Edward Carrington, Paris, Jan. 16, 1787 (found in The Works of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 5 (Correspondence 1786-1787))
THIS STORY leaves the reader with many questions; such has been a concern of mine for many years.
The reporter says: "Vegasm, You are assuming the cop belonged to Metro. We don't know. The hospital is in Henderson, which has its own police department." In addition:
"Many people saw the gunman, she said, and the union is gathering statements and talking to hospital administrators." Where did the Henderson police say? What prevented this reporter from talking to people? What happened to writing a story AFTER you've collected the facts, and answered ALL the questions - to see what the story is?
If the goal of LV Sun is to report the complete truth - they have not met this goal on several occasions; and today is one such occasion. Without the whole story - the truth - the accuracy and content of the story becomes unsupported rumor. So why write it?
I was taught that a well written news story should contain: "what, when, where, how, who, and why." Not just a collection of quotes thrown at a reporter, or incomplete ideas that do not "connect the dots."
DEADLINES, the bane of every reporter - are a big cause of incomplete stories. Yet, deadlines are no excuse for the lack of information. Incomplete reporting becomes innuendo and assumptions; not facts - and raises more questions than answers. (One reason why these Discussion pages become so volatile.)
I have been reading the LV SUN for 15 years, and I have observed that some reporters do not appear to be aware how to research, collect facts, and analyze issues - and THEN (tell) write a story.
The people who write in these "Discussion" pages, seem to have more insight about Sun news stories than some reporters do. Is there a copy EDITOR at the LV SUN anymore; someone who CHECKS a reporter's story for content, accuracy, and facts?
If I seem to be rather hard on this issue it is because, although I know it is not EASY to find all the facts, it is still mandatory if you are writing a news story. And I am also aware there are many ways to get information. It is a REPORTERS JOB to find it. (The result can be a Pulitzer Prize for great journalism!)
I also don't buy the excuses of "time didn't permit," or "a lack of information", or "unable to get answers from..." - as a valid preclusion from writing a new story that provides answers to all the questions.
IF ALL THE FACTS ARE NOT KNOWN, THERE IS NO STORY TO PRINT!
Many people, businesses, the courts, etc., read news to see what and how it affects their lives. So it must be true and complete. Only investigative reporting can do that.
Around 2004, when the LV Sun and the LVRJ merged, it was said that the LV Sun was going to beome an INVESTIGATIVE newspaper. Well, if Mr. Greenspan wants the LV Sun to continue to receive notable journalism awards, I suggest that his reporters give us - as PAUL HARVEY would say: "...THE REST OF THE STORY."
"GOOD DAY!"
Good post Socratic.
Is this what happens when you're 50th in the nation for education? Sounds like we need to implement a "No Adult Left Behind" policy.
This is unbelievable...in the land where cops kill ice cream ladies.
No wonder any of us with the financial means to do so go to California for our medical care. I'll bet 100 grand nothing like this would ever happen in the UCLA medical care system.
IT GETS EVEN WORSE...You can't even trust the police (in this case an off-duty Deputy Sheriff in Washington State), to use proper safety precautions, or provide adequate instruction, in the handling of guns.
The "Government Executive" on-line news edition reports that in an incident last August - "an off-duty Deputy Sheriff operating as a subcontractor allowed students in class to handle gun - "...when a student accidentally discharged the.45 caliber pistol following a concealed weapons demonstration."
No one was injured. The student was not pointing the gun at anyone when he/she PULLED THE TRIGGER.
The instructor was a weapons "expert," but had not checked or cleared the weapon before giving it to students to look at.
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?ar...
YOU ARE ALL CORRECT. I could tell you several more similar stories of the improper handling and use of lethal weapons by CERTIFIED OFFICERS. (including ex-military as this Sheriff was.)
Somehow, it seems that people with CARRY LICENSES mught just be better TRAINED than the some (not the majority) law enforcement officers. More importantly, I would believe that a citizen would think twice (unless a criminal) about brandishing a gun around people.
If this was a "CIVILIAN," you can bet he would be charged and in jail, right now - for a several violations of law (such as, lethal intimidation, assault with a lethal weapon - which was probably loaded! - etc.).
Just like what was said in the movie: "Red October" by the Captain of an aircraft carrier who learned of their contact with Soviet Submarines - "THIS BUSINESS WILL GET OUT OF HAND, AND SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET KILLED!"
Ditto.
Andy North should be fired.
Never allow yourself to be taken to another location by force. Stand your ground at point 1.
The farther you are removed by the perpetrator, the more difficult it is for the victim to survive.
"You are assuming the cop belonged to Metro. We don't know. The hospital is in Henderson, which has its own police department."
Let's see....
Cop doing 100 mph plus on Flamingo, no lights, no siren, gets killed followed by an attempted cover up - Metro.....Check
Cop doing 80ish on Nellis, blows the light, swerves and hits a wall. Kills himself and injures his partner - Metro.....Check
Local law enforcement agency that shoots more people than all the other agencies combined AND NEVER gets held accountable by Coroner's Inquest - Metro.....Check
Police Academy rookie goes bonkers and drives his car into a crowd of people on the strip - Metro....Check
Only local public safety agency that slips a new UNION CONTRACT through, but gets caught after the fact. Sisolak says its "just an oversight" - Metro.....Check
Former Sheriff now running his own courtroom in the backrooms of Station Casinos, but its not extortion - Metro.....Check
Shall I continue? I really don't see the need. This "actor" seems to fit the criteria for being an employee of the greatest law enforcement agency in the country. Just ask them, I'm sure they'll tell you everything is fine.
there's just too much stupid in this valley.
These idiots must have watched this seasons finale of Grace Anatomy last Sunday night.....life imitating art.
I meant to say ABC's Grey's Anatomy
I can't help but wonder if the hospital can or has terminated any employee's for posting unfavorable comments about the hospital management for other decisions in the past, I here all the time about other companies firing workers because they said something negative about there employer...........
This will be interesting to watch as it unfolds.
It seems to me this was detrimental to the hospital and it's staff.
Socratic Inkwell: Excellent post it was refreshing to read a post that actually stayed on subject, I could only hope that the Sun staff would also commend you as well.
The Socratic inkwell,
I'm sorry we frustrate you so. We have lots of questions, too.
We learned of the security exercise from someone who saw it, and called the hospital asking for as much information as they could give us. What they told us is contained in the story. They gave us no additional information.
The story as we wrote it is 100 percent accurate. Of course there are more facts, more details, more information, that we don't yet have.
At what point do you think you've collected enough information to write a story? We decided we had enough to write the story accurately, and then we can update it as more facts become known to answer many lingering questions.
Sometimes, news unfolds incrementally. But that doesn't mean we don't report what we know. We report what we do know, and then hope to gather more.
Hey there, Socratic Inkwell -
It sounds like you have some trouble comprehending the basics of this story, like the "who, what, when, where, why and how."
Here I've laid it out for you:
WHO: A gunman, some hospital staff and patients and their loved ones.
WHAT: An emergency preparedness drill that no one was told about, involving a gun and a fake hostage situation.
WHEN: Monday morning.
WHERE: The St. Rose Siena ICU.
WHY: Because the hospital is trying to make sure they are prepared for such events, though they know now they should have thought this one through more.
HOW: Under the direction of the hospital's emergency preparedness team.
I thought those details were pretty clear when I wrote the story, but apparently you didn't pick up the gist of it.
If you have any other questions you can always call me at 259-2330.
Marshall
HEADLINE... "Gunman killed at hospital, Dead is an off duty police officer role playing as terrorist, he was killed by another off duty police officer who witnessed this incident as is played out in a section of the hospital where it's most fragile are cared for." Now who is responsible. And what if the role playing terrorist had been killed by a legal gun carrying citizen with a concealed weapons permit only trying to help in this deadly confrontation. This situation could have really end up being very ugly. I'm very glad no one was seriously injured.
Nice job Marshall and Tom for sharing your side. Some clearly get lost in their own conspiracy theories and lose sight that what happened here is unexcusable.
Don't forget to mention the possibility of someone with a weak heart having a fatal heart-attack over all this - talk about STUPID!
I think that the Sun Staff wrote an excellent piece, well within the bounds of respected, responsible journalism.
I believe that, as tempting as it may be, professional journalists should refrain from posting in the comments section unless absolutely necessary. When you personally address trolls and thoughtless agitators you detract from your mantle of impartiality as well as from the dignity of your trade.
In my opinion, when the Sun Staff gets involved with the repartee in the comments section it makes this seem less like an award winning Newspaper and more like a chat room, replete with all of the nonsensical trappings usually found in such places.
DMFDRT,
You need to get a couple facts straight. The officer on Nellis did not blow a light. He had a green light and a person making a left turn, turned in front of him,cutting him off.
The reason Metro has more deadly force incidents than all other local departments is probably because the are larger and have more jurisdiction than all other departments combined.
Please explain how a contract for Metro can be "slipped through" when it has to be approved by both the city and county.
Marshall Allen -
Why don't you just give my comments to Mr. Greenspan and see if he agrees as to the adequacy and depth of coverage of this story. It is HIS newspaper that is at risk.
The WHO is NOT DEFINED; except to say he was an off-duty officer - but from where, and what credentials did he/she have? Was he carring a loaded weapon? more...
The WHAT is not discussed in terms of what the objectives were in conducting the "drill." How would they measure results? Why wasn't this "drill" conducted in a classroom?
The WHEN does not help readers understand what was happening in the hospital that required a life-threatening (to patients) "drill."
The WHERE is obvious - but you do not mention where this "drill" occurred, the staff members involved, or what they were doing when they were "forced" into compliance at the point of a gun.
The WHY is a blanket bureaucratic statment that tells us NOTHING - except that the Hospital's EPT knows nothing about security practices or training. -- Why was this "drill" necessary? A "drill" is practice, training, instruction, etc. -- Is this what really happened(?).
This "drill" did nothing to help the nurses (and doctors?_ know WHAT TO DO, or (from that lack of information in your article) teach them how to act in such an event.
The HOW, if it is The Hospital's Emergency Prepardness plan, is a JOKE. (I have done this for 20 years.) It appears (not reported) they know NOTHING about security. If this is a plan to avoid penetration, it will fail. You made no comment regarding intrusions that would require police actiom.
Well, this is my take on the "GIST" of your story. I ask you: "Why do you think we have so many comments about it?" It seems that we are only exchanging "opinions" due to lack of information in the story.
THIS STORY CONCERNS A LIFE AND DEATH MATTER. The patients in this Hosptial are already sick. The nurses could have been involved in a procedure that, when distracted, could have caused a patient to DIE. This was NOT a "DRILL;" it was an INCURSION! I hope you would agree, but you did not say so.
S0, what is your take on the impact of this "drill"? Have you - as an Sun Investigative Reporter - no opinion? No more facts to share? Where is your newsworthy commentary on what happened?
If you think I am asking unwarranted questions, It seems that I am not the only one. In our current-day society, people DEMAND answers - and I believe these questions should have been answered in the story. I feel you had plenty of time to research these answers. Then, I would not have so many questions, as others do.
Maybe 45 seconds on TV news would have been more adequate.
Alan Greenspan is "where the buck stops." Since I respect him, I will defer to his thinking on the content of this article. But if this incident goes to court, I am sure a judge will find more import to this story than was reported.
And then we will know "...the rest of the story."
ThisOneGuy,
Thanks for your thoughts. I try to resist reacting to trolls and being baited into inane arguments.
To the larger question of whether staff members should engage with readers: this is an evolving phenomenon -- easily posted feedback and discussion among readers -- and I think the journalists involved in the story ought to respond if we need to set the record straight or perhaps nudge the conversation in a more constructive or relevant direction. (Too many threads get hijacked by trolls, which frustrates readers who would like to have a reasonable discussion about the issue at hand.)
I don't think in award-winning newspaper and a mature chat room have to be mutually exclusive.
But you're right: some comments are so ridiculous all I can do is shake my head and move on.
Hi ThisOneGuy - you make good points. I generally restrict my replies to occasions when someone is saying something that is factually incorrect, or at times when someone writes something professionally disparaging about myself. I want to correct any mistakes, and I also want to let people know that I stand behind my work, which is highly scrutinized by my editors, the people I write about, and the public.
And when I ask people to call me I am being sincere. I gain lots of important info about the community by talking to readers, even those who call to disagree with a story. That's how I learn about important stories. In fact, it's this mindset that led to me hearing about the "gunman" at St. Rose. They don't put out press releases or readily share information about these kind of events, as you can imagine.
And Socratic Inkwell -- it sounds like you should be a journalist! I asked many of the same questions you're asking of the folks at St. Rose Siena. They did not have answers for what you're asking, or I would have put them into the story. But I agree with you that this is an important issue, which is why we felt it was important to get the story out now, rather than wait to have every single imaginable question answered. My apologies for not having all the depth that you wanted in the story. I would have loved to have reported all the details you desire.
If you want to discuss this further, please do call me and we'll talk about it. As ThisOneGuy has pointed out, this is not a chat room, and I'm not going to get into a tit-for-tat in the comments.
Marshall Allen -
Thank you for your response to my inquiry, and the compliment you gave me about being a journalist.
I am going to close writing on this Discussion page by saying that, thanks to your consideration in explaining the situation, I now have a better understanding of what the circumstances were when you wrote this story.
I have been a manager who never accepts "not possible" for an answer; yet I do understand that sometimes, some things probably are not possible - at the time. So we must accept that until circumstances change. I will do that for this story.
It appears that the additional information I seek is in the category of "not available now, coming later."
I apologize for any concern I may have caused you in expressing my discontent with the content of your article. I believe that this incident at St Rose just overwhelmed me with the apparent disregard for patient safety, and I was driven to find out more about what happend.
As you may note, I commented earlier in this Discussion page about a Deputy Sheriff (ex-military person) who allowed a class student to handle an uncleared gun - which was fired by the student. I know of more similar stories.
That carelessness with a gun is probably what stirred my opinon on this story, because guns should never be used to herd innocent people around - especially by a (unknown) police officer.
Again, thanks for your response. I will await your next story about this St. Rose incident. Have a good night.
The comments here are overwhelming (if not totally) against the "drill", and many valid points are made. However there is another side or train of thought.
As a former US Army Combat Arms specialist I have gone through too many "alerts" and training exercises that are so preplanned that there was no value in determining what would happen in an actual emergency. Now if there was a breakdown in communications then this was a disaster. I would have had more respect if someone said the risks were worth what we learned individually and as an organization - but apparently that was not the intention. At least if it had been a choice, even if it is one I may have disagreed with, it would have been a disagreement about a properly executed plan and not a complaint about a training exercise gone wrong.
There could have been more police acting as patients to help ensure things did not get out of hand, or to help calm the situation quickly explaining the exercise, but there would still be the valid argument that things could get out of hand. But there will always be a trade off of danger vs. learning in emergency exercises. The safer it is the less we learn.
Again, the administration running this exercise are not arguing my point, apparently they say it was not properly conducted. And even if it had been a plan I believe there was a better ratio of surprise vs danger.
While I may have missed it, I did not read a response talking about how this exercise demonstrates how unprepared the staff was to deal with the situation that apparently has happened in other places. Again, we all will have an opinion as to the proper balance, but take a moment to consider what the people involved learned, about themselves, the people around them, and their need to be prepared.
I ask those who have commented to ask themselves what will they say when such an emergency occurs and the staff is not equipped to deal with it.
As to the article, I as a reader would like to know what training, if any, had the staff been given about a situation such as this. Because if there has been no training or plan to have been tested then that makes the situation even worse. If this had been a drastic test of training then there could be an argument of the value vs the cost, but that is not the case here.
In advance of the criticisms that I am sure will follow this post, I have my own opinion as to the value of the exercise if it had been intentional, I am just asking all to realize that every safety measure diminishes the value of an exercise and that regardless of what could have gone wrong, did the staff and organization learn anything about what need to be done in terms of training, procedures, policy, or equipment. And to the reporter, what if anything did this exercise (even if it was a snafu) teach about what needs to be done.
P.S. The the journalist of the story, if you asked the questions about prior training, specific intent of the exercise, who planned it etc I believe it should have been in the article. Although it will take up space, I believe the reader would be more satisfied knowing you asked the questions but were rebuffed and who was it that refused to answer (and their reason if it had been given) At least then you reader's anger should be directed at the person or organization who did not answer, instead of at you. However, it could be your editors choice for length but at least the "extended" version of line would carry the details (and there is no space of word limits online). Perhaps if the readers know of the parameters of your work it would color the expectation of the your articles, or perhaps the editor would hear from your readers that there is a value to the reader to include the information. But that is just my opinion.
What a bunch of freakin' idiots!!!! Nurses have enough stress on the job without some moron brandishing a gun to give someone a heart attack!!!! How dare they? I hope someone sues the hospital for such stupidity, and for endangering the nurses and patients!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And....if I happened to be one of the nurses present for that "drill", I most likely would have punched that stupid cop in the nads for scaring the crap out of everyone!!!!!!!
I'm wondering how people can blame the officer without knowing all the facts. Obviously the hospital administration asked this officer to be a part of this drill. How much information was he given prior to the drill? A question that should be answered before judgement.
LV_N8tive wrote:
"How much information was he given prior to the drill?"
As a trained LEO the officer should have asked, prior to the misguided exercise, whether or not the staff at St Rose was aware of what was about to go down. If they weren't, he should not have participated in the activity.
In a state where carrying a concealed firearm is perfectly legal he should have realized that a bystander with the best of intentions might opt to get involved. The oucome could have been tragic.
I'm glad that Sun staff responds to questions asked by readers. I've had a few answered myself and truly appreciate it. Keep up the good work!
Anotherside points out how unprepared the staff were in dealing with this situation. I guess it is a good thing for everyone involved that nobody there WAS prepared.
The people hosting that exercise put lives in danger, period. Like others have said, if a ccw holder had been present someone might very well be dead now.
Working in the medical field I undestand the need for such a drill. I also understand the importance of having qualified security in place to prevent such individuals from entering a medical facility with any type of weapon. As to patient care being compromised, it had to be. As stated "nurses were were taken at gunpoint down the corridor and into a room." Were ICU patients left unattended during this period of time? This appears to be very poor execution of what could be a very real situation. Perhaps it is time to place metal detectors at all entrances. As to the nurses that were able to continue to provide quality care to patients after such an incident, you are the real heroes. Thank you for your commitment to the patient.
When I read this story, I thought of the Grey's Anatomy finale, too. I'd like to know when the hospital conceived this drill and who did know it was taking place. I've known too many people in this town who carry concealed weapons so this off-duty cop is very lucky he's still in one piece. The cop should have known better than to participate in something like this.
Marshall Allen, your above comment is unnecessarily sarcastic and antagonistic. And it's not the first time that I've noticed you responding sarcastically to a reader.
If you think a comment made by a reader is stupid, insulting or somehow violates the comment rules, then have it removed by staff. Don't post your own sarcastic rebuttal. It only makes YOU look foolish and immature while validating the message you are trying to rebut. It makes me, as a reader, question your journalistic mettle. Rule number one in journalism: Develop a very thick skin. Rule number two: Don't antagonize the reader. Remember, when it comes to attitude and respect, you get what you give.
While I didn't wholly agree with the criticism of this story, I do see holes in it, holes that could have been addressed with a couple of simple sentences: "The hospital/Henderson police/etc. did not reveal the identity of the off-duty officer," for instance. The Henderson PR flak is a former Sun cops reporter. Surely he could find out if the "terrorist" in this case worked for the city's PD.
And your lede breaks two important rules of journalism: Rarely, if ever, lede with a question and never put your opinion into a news story. You did both. The facts may point to the hospital drill being "ill-conceived" but you're a reporter, not someone paid to share his opinion. You could have easily found someone to quote. And your editor should have said as much.
I understand the necessity to get breaking news onto the internet ASAP. I know, as do others, that new information will come in time and that it will be added as it's revealed. But your credibility is hurt when you post stories that fail to convey that fact to readers. And I cannot stress enough how "light-hearted" your lede is and how inappropriate that approach is in a case like this.
I expect more from the Sun.
That's quite a reprimand, Salvjus. I'll take it into consideration.
Please give me a call if you wish to discuss your specific points.
And I certainly apologize to anyone I have offended with my sarcasm/antagonism!
Salvjus,
As his editor, I quite approved of how Marshall wrote the story.
Not to belabor the point, but having lived through the experience at Desert Springs in the late 90's I cannot stress how horrible it is to have a gunman come into the ICU and kill someone in front of you. I was there immediately afterward - some of the nurses & staff never recovered from the event. It was horribly traumatic.
Sure, it's important to plan for an event and to train the staff as to what to do. But to hold such a "drill" is irresponsible and painful for all involved. I'm shocked that Administration went for this, and that the police felt this was a good idea.
Shame on them for putting staff through this. They're lucky no one was physically hurt - although they surely were emotionally hurt.
No surprise here. I live right behind St. Rose Hospital. Just driving home from work on the Strip at night, I've seen up to ten cops out on the prowl. Henderson gives an abundance of money to its police force and, in effect, has a large force who essentially get bored. Boredom breeds stupidity, in some cases, and police are by no means immune to being moronic. Ta da! Keep up the good work, idiots.
This was just plain stupid; this exercise demonstrated nothing --- there is no preparedness for this act. What exactly does the hospital administration expect medical personnel to do in the event this were to actually happen? Put it into perspective --- if an armed gunman burst into a Sun editorial staff meeting and started shooting, what would you do? If he/they took you hostage and told you to move down the hall, after he/they just shot a couple of your co-workers, what good exactly would a preparedness drill have been? You'd crap your pants/have a heart attack/stumble and fall, etc., but the fact would still remain that you are a hostage to a crazy.
I am a Special Ops veteran with a concealed carry permit; this dumbass "actor" should thank his guardian angel that I wasn't there --- I KNOW what to do.
Hey Teaser - just a quick thought - most of the adults living in the Las Vegas area were educated elsewhere......
I don't believe this. What if a visitor or an on-duty officer was close by? In my hospital we are required to do drills, but when we do this type of exercise, It takes months of coordination and planning. The hospital administration, the specific departments, police are involved as well. We also notify everyone that this type of drill is going on at a specific time and date, and yes, there are large "drill in progress" signs in the front of the entrances, along with a live person explaining there is a drill going on. It is IMPORTANT to add, the drill is held in areas where there are no patients, and we use staff as the victims as well. Yes, Police and Swat teams have weapons, that are used for training only.
Unannounced drills are being encouraged and stressed in hospitals for all shifts, but USING common sense and safety is top priority. Common sence was not being used on this incident. Communications is also top priority when developing exercises. Never endanger the lives of patient, visitors and staff. Hopefully the hospital activated their Critical Incident Stress Teams as they went into the recovery mode. Many people will need it.
Throw the book at both the police officer and hospital adminstration. The "disconnect" comment related to communications is an excuse and they hope it will blow over soon.
From military experience, I would warn hospital administrators to avoid "over drilling" or "over realizing" these practice drills. First off, it actually increases complacency by way of making people second guess if a situation is a test or real life situation, adding precious time to their decision making process that can save or cost lives. Secondly, the reality of this drill can have long lasting impacts such as PTSD, no amount of reassurance that it "was just a drill" can change the emotional response and terrifying memory of what that person experienced and how they felt about it.
This was very foolish.
There are ICU and ER nurses out there who are very serious martial artists, former military, former police officers, etc. This was a stupid drill that could have turned lethal very quickly. St. Rose needs to be sanctioned heavily for this.
I was almost over the big healthcare issue that happened in a hospital in Las Vegas and this event comes along. I consider myself a Las Vegan and have been fortunate enough to work with the most hardworking healthcare providers from various specialty areas as well as in various medical centers in the Valley.
Here's the biggest issue for hospitals: how to make the most money with the least investment/resources (money, manpower, equipment). Oftentimes patient safety programs are being created by clueless people and managers whose ideas so ancient. Yes there are so many successful disaster preparedness programs out there and I really do not understand why organizations DO NOT have the brains/leaders who would take the initiative to learn from programs out there. What happened to the MBA's, Public Admin, credentials that these people have? What have they done lately to help provide better care rather than come up with easy fixes to satisfy the requirements of accrediting agencies.
Most of these programs are done at the expense of healthcare providers and most specially the nurses, leaving no time for them to actually perform the most important tasks required of them: patient care. Ultimately patients suffer because of the pressure on healthcare providers to do paperwork, accept another patient regardless of acuity ...
Are nurses, in this case, just willing to accept these type of incidences and wallow in passivity? Incidents like this will happen again and again if providers and patients do not work together to make a stand against Blind Leaders whose priority is to make themselves look good with administration.
This incident was done in poor taste, poor planning and I am sure someone other than those whose sick minds planned this will bear the brunt. Let me guess, there will be a major cover up, then I think the actor who thought he was just following orders will take the blame.
Bedside clinicians will continue to be treated like they are now if they dont take a stand. Its just easy to be mum about this but, what would it take for the public and providers to say enough is enough. Lets finally pick a leader who has the vision to guide us through this tough times.
I almost wish that people from corporate would go to the hospital in the guise of being a patient and see how the departments are being run. It will be a huge awakening for all concerned. This will, Im sure open the eyes of many on who work the hardest in hospitals and who should be relieved of their jobs.
I finally commend the reporter whose responsibility is to follow the leads and report on what they think is relevant to protect the public. But hey, we cant complain about what they write about if we are all so scared to speak up. Reporters are privy to what facts those involved provide.
Very poor judgement, someones head needs to roll for this. It's amazing an armed citizen did not take him out. This could have truly ended in tragedy.
In reading the comments posted so far, there is a general mood that this was a stupid idea. I am waiting to see the follow up story on this. I know that there are many people in the medical profession that have the concealed weapon permit and do care their weapons with them. I agree that it is pure luck that not one of them walked in on this situation, because it could have turned really ugly, really quick. Please keep on top of this story, it will be interesting to all of us to see what the outcome is at the hospital and who will be held accountable for this stupid action.
I say this was a good drill. The nurses and other employees of the hospital need to be ready for anything regardless if they know about it or not.
Didn't anyone point out to The Socratic Inkwell that the founder of the LV Sun was HANK GreenspUn, NOT ALAN GreenspAn? They could also have pointed out that Mr GreenspUn has been deceased for many years and it would quite difficult to ask his opinion on this story. Who needs to know who/what/when/where/how more??
First of all,I am a nurse. I am also married to an ex-army ranger. Nurses are "non-combatants" in a military zone. They are not soldiers, nor are they trained to act as such. This was not a drill, this was an invasion. This has the possibility and probability of causing PTSD for the nurses and others involved.
This means the hospital is now liable. I have a medical condition that causes adrenal failure under extreme stress. I would sue in a heartbeat. Anyone who is pregnant, heart condition, diabetic, and another multitude of health conditions was put at risk that day.
For what purpose? That kind of "drill" proves nothing unless you are testing trained soldiers in their response. You aren't.
Next, are we going to let terrorists run through the schools, terrorizing kids and teachers? Same principle.
People need to lose jobs immediately. Lawsuits should occur (even though in general I'm not a big fan of lawsuits, this is such a clean case). Patients were put at risk, any psychology 101 student can tell you that those nurses were not in any condidition to care for your loved one after this drill, nor were any other nurses who were called in to replace them, adrenaline was high,risk for mistake was extremely high and probable.
For those that think it was a good drill, all I can say, is I hope you get to experience a gun in your face. And your children's face. Believe me, you'll never see the world again the same. Nor will you have such a short sighted vision of what constitutes a "drill" rather than an "invasion". Maybe someone can kidnap your wife or kids to see how you react. It's not a game, we're not playing video's here. If we should all be ready for anything, then that goes for your job, your wife/husband's job, your kids school, your kids bus...it goes on and on...maybe terrorize a preschool...ridiculous....
My husband has been to war, has had guns and been shot. Nothing is ever the same. And he's a trained soldier. I am not.
Shame on everyone involved!
Idiots!!! I carry 100% of the time when I leave my house. Why would anyone do something like this in a hospital??? Someone needs to be looking for a job!!! In the first place someone who conceal carries could of shot this cop. Not only would the cop be dead or injured but the person who shot the cop would have to get an attorney to get off because someone would have blamed him for the whole thing just to get the heat off themselves! IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!