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A model of a proposed Las Vegas station is displayed during a news conference for the DesertXpress high-speed rail project Thursday, March 25, 2010.
Friday, July 23, 2010 | 2:05 a.m.
Sun Coverage
- Work on high-speed rail set to begin this year (3-25-2010)
- Harry Reid: ‘No one is stopping’ maglev train proposal (3-19-2010)
- $45 million for maglev shifted to airport road project (3-17-2010)
- Las Vegas mob museum continues to move forward (11-18-2008)
- Not yet built, mob museum may get rival (9-11-2009)
- Goodman marks Mob Museum progress (8-4-2009)
- Mob museum contractor at odds with city (8-8-2009)
- Oh, the irony: The former mob lawyer gets FBI support for mob museum (8-17-2008)
When the DesertXpress high-speed train is built, there would be up to 700 permanent jobs at an operations and maintenance facility — in Victorville, Calif.
Tom Stone, president of DesertXpress Enterprises LLC, told representatives of the Associated General Contractors at a lunch Thursday that building the privately funded, $4 billion traditional high-speed rail system would create 50,000 person-year construction jobs over the four-year design and construction period expected to begin late this year.
Translated, 50,000 person-year jobs is the equivalent of 50,000 people working for a full year. The statistic illustrates the vast number and diverse types of jobs — planners, architects, draftsmen, engineers, construction workers, electricians and other specialists — that will be created over the course of the project.
But the bulk of the permanent operations jobs would be in Victorville, the southern terminus of 185-mile double-track system.
Stone said the decision to build the primary maintenance facility, which would include an operations control center, a train-washing facility, repair shop, parts storage, track storage, meeting rooms and administrative offices, was based on the availability of a 200 acre-plus, narrow piece of land in California.
“There’s no place large enough to accommodate this in Las Vegas,” Stone said. “Las Vegas will get more of its fair share of the construction jobs.”
Stone said the operations and maintenance center would start out with about 500 permanent jobs, growing to about 700 as ridership increases.
A smaller number of permanent jobs would be based in Southern Nevada for crews that would clean and inspect trains parked overnight in Las Vegas, Stone said. He didn’t have an estimate of how many jobs would be created here.
But contractors were enthused about the prospect of a long-term construction project.
Stone said his company is still awaiting final approval of an environmental impact statement before work can begin on the project. He said he hopes to get the environmental approvals by the end of summer so that some of the detailed engineering work could begin later this year and construction early next year.
Still undetermined is the exact location of train stations on both ends of the train line.
Three sites are proposed in the draft environmental impact statement for Victorville and four in Las Vegas.
Two of the four Las Vegas sites are near Flamingo Road and Interstate 15, while another is on the west side of I-15, near Russell Road. Another is in downtown Las Vegas.
The proposed station sites would have access to taxi service, car rental facilities and possible extensions of the Las Vegas Monorail line.
Environmental approvals are necessary because most of the route is on government land overseen by the Department of Transportation, the Bureau of Land Management and the National Park Service. The I-15 right-of-way would carry most of the route.
Stone said a series of announcements is expected in the weeks ahead when the environmental approvals are completed and the station sites are selected. The company also is expected to name a management group to operate the train.
The rail line is expected to be completed by 2014, and Stone said the cost of the project, operations and maintenance would be paid for by fare-box and advertising revenue and corporate sponsorships.
The average cost of a ticket would be about $50 one way, he said.
While the company’s focus is on building the line between Las Vegas and Victorville, another project that would solidify the viability of the system — a 50-mile rail link between Victorville and Palmdale, Calif. — remains under study.
The link to Palmdale would tie the DesertXpress route to California’s high-speed rail system.
Stone said it should be much easier to win environmental approvals on the route west to Palmdale compared with going south into the Los Angeles basin along I-15, because the route to Palmdale is undeveloped.
The rail line between Victorville and Palmdale is within the right-of-way of the so-called High Desert Corridor, a proposed freeway that would provide an alternate route into Southern California’s population centers.
Weren't many of the same promises made about a monorail a while back. Smaller scale but the same grand projections with no basis in fact, just a dream wanting backing.
i hope they will accommodate people with a fear of heights in the design to gain access to station, unlike city centre..
The monorail was centenced to death from Day 1 when it was clear that it wouldn't run on Las Vegas Boulevard. If instead, they would have decided to build it there and close the street from public traffic permanently, it would have been a different story.
The way the monorail runs all the way down till Sahara, it's a scary way to walk from the stops to the back entrance of the casinos, passing garbage bins and other trash and perhaps one or 2 nasty subjects waiting in the shadow to give you a nice welcome with a baseball bat in the middle of the night and take your money.
As long as Americans are not even ready to forfeit their big cars and get smaller, more fuel efficient cars, instead, such a long distance high speed train system will not work out, ever. Take my word before you waste more public taxpayer money or run a new created public company into Chapt 11.
It is first time to change your way of thinking and then do something for your environment.
Alternatively, what could help speeding up with this process, that would be another or perhaps 2 or 3 more catastrophic disasters just like the BP thing in the gulf, and once all maritime life down there will be destroyed for the next 150 years and all beautiful Floriday beaches will no longer be tourist attractions, perhaps then some people will agree and say....."yes, we should have done something before it was too late".
From Switzerland
And Harry Reid pushed for this project instead of the Maglev? Most of the jobs are in Victorville? (shaking my head)...
Great, I love the thought to ride from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and back again by train, as long as the aircondition works appropriately to cool down the passengers while traveling across the desert.
Regards
Banana_Joe
This is Mission Impossible!!! And from what I see, it's only a paper project that already cost so much money and who will possibly pay for it?
The so-called "50,000 equivalent one-year-construction jobs" would not create that many new jobs, EVEN IF this mission would go under way. The jobs would be given to some privileged companies (to friends etc), and then a part of the jobs , the dirty jobs in the desert , would be given to bottom feeders who would have to work their ass off for little money. And once this project would be finished (est in 2195 post christus, maybe), then they would be fired again.
Let's not forget, before this train project would be finished, there will be no water left for Vegas. And no water means no electric power from Lake Mead / Hover Dam. Where would that power needed come from instead? Solar plants? Nice idea, I would support that,I would even purchase stocks of companies willing to invest into this kind of business. But before there are not enough solar plants to give enough electric power for aircondition-depending , super high energy thirsty cities , such as Las Vegas, I wouldn't even think of such a highly ambitious train project.
And last but not least.... gas price would have to be 10 dollars per gallon at least to keep the car addicted Americans from driving into Las Vegas and purchase a 50 dollar train ticket instead. A family of 4 would have to pay some 200 plus tax for such a train ride. I don't think it costs 200 dollars driving into Vegas and fueling up in Primm. Does it?
Come on, this train project is a publicity matter and somebody's interested in promoting this pipe dream.
This is so unrealistic and flying into Vegas is not much more than buying a train ticket, so why would people go by train and have bigger hassle than fly? Think straight before coming up with such ridiculous ideas, please.
From Switzerland
$100 round trip per person? Then you get off at the station in vegas, need a cab to get to your hotel. This idea completely sucks.
Please--some common sense. Would you ride it?
They have been attempting the same here in Virginia, placing a rail line that runs the Hampton Roads Corridor. The project is close to $100 million over budget, 5 years beyond projected delivery date, and the COO is facing charges of imbezzelment. I hope it works out for you all out there, because it has been a complete disaster here in Tidewater.
No room for 700 jobs in Las Vegas? hmm.. there's plenty of room a few minutes away in Apex... or Jean, Primm, Sandy Valley cutoff... at those speeds, it's just minutes from the "barn" back to downtown...
Someone's full of BS here... Then again, Mayor Bill Briare first brought this up in the 70's and worked his but off trying to make it a reality, but all the naysayers then said Las Vegas already was too 'empty' to fill 26,000 rooms and airfare from PSA airlines (now absorbed into Southwest Air) was only $29 each way
<Wow you get a job for 1 year and be back in the same boat later.>
I thought the same. 50,000 TEMPORARY jobs doesn't mean a damn thing. But then considering it takes longer to build things then anticipated, those jobs may last longer then a year, ie 5 years, maybe even 10. How long has it been taking to build that bypass bridge over at the Dam?
"And Harry Reid pushed for this project instead of the Maglev?"
Along with most everyone else. What's the point? The Maglev people couldn't show a viable game plan in time. They CHOKED. I had originally supported Maglev, but their incompetence finally got to me as well.
It's sad to see that project die, but in the end I'd rather have a train built some time this decade than another fleeting promise that leaves us without a high-speed rail line for yet another 30 years.
Victorville? All the permanent jobs will be filled by drug dealers and drug addicts.
The Maglev is the better project. The reason the Sun is blatantly supporting this program? Harry Reid along with his boy Sig Rogich have now jumped onto this one. It's all politics. Public betterment be damned, its about the money. Harry has sold out again.
"privately funded, $4 billion traditional high-speed rail system "
OK, show us the $4 billion then.
It would be something if you could park your car on the train and have it transport you and your car (with all its electronic gadgets and TVs)-- like a traveling "overland car ferry."
The train would kill more jobs than it creates. You see, the money has to be borrowed from somewhere which means it can't create some other job. And since there are VERY FEW rail systems that actually make money (the Phoenix light rail for example loses $28 million a year and that doesn't even include the losses to repay the $1.5 billion in bonds).
Thus spending money to lose money means you kill more jobs than you otherwise would have created.
Just say no to these horrible ideas. Visit the Anti-Planner for more information on more bad ideas from big government: http://ti.org/antiplanner/
If anything comes out of this...Victorville will be put on the map...Are they expecting people to drive to Victorville from LA and leave their car? At what cost? I'd rather drive "point to point".
Babyboomer,
They are expecting you to drive your car from your home to the Vegas station. Park it. Get out. Buy a ticket. Get on the train. Get off at Victorville. Rent a car. Drive over the mountain to whatever part of L.A. is your final destination. (Of course, this would be the same, if it actually went to downtown L.A. -- how many people actually want to stay in downtown LA anyway? You'll have to rent a car or get a cab or ride a bus when you arrive and that is what takes you to your final destination).
In all likelihood you will do more environmental damage by riding the train, rather than driving your own car. An SUV with 3 people already produces less C02 per passenger mile than the average high speed rail.
Most people in LA have to drive 2 hrs to get to VictorVille, drag all their baggage, take a train, then cab or rent a car... and do it all over again 3 days later? (most CA traffic is 3 day weekends)
wtf?
Hey BANANA, it only goes to Victorville...not LA..
Construction Jobs? Unless they mandate that all employees are from LAS VEGAS, then you'll see the big companies like Bechtel who will get the contract, will bring workers from outside the state, and they won't be Americans.
And Steel Wheels? IS this the BEST that America has to offer??
2 reports put California's high speed rail in trouble: http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=3384
One finds: the state's high-speed rail authority suffered from "inadequate planning, weak oversight, and lax contract management,"
the other,
a new report from the University of California found that the state's ridership forecasts "are not reliable." Based on a re-assessment by economist David Brownstone and two UC engineering profs, the fares needed to cover the trains' operating costs would have to be more than double the original projections, which is also more than the cost of flying.
What a ridiculous idea! I have ridden on the German Transrapid Mag Lev train. There is no comparison between it and Sig Rogich and Harry Reid's train to nowhere. They should stop wasting our time, and get behind a real train that goes to Anaheim, not Hooterville.
http://www.americanmafia.com/inside_vega...
Hey Boris and retiredyoungster:
You both are right, I was only dreaming about the good ole times, but with new aircondition:
http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi1...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9zw_79tl...
Regards
Banana_Joe
Steve, even Eurorail flops. Despite HEAVILY taxing automobiles to pay for transit, a doubling of rail trainsit in Europe would hardly make a dent in auto travel.
According to Remy Prudhome (a French economist), doubling the importance of rail would reduce road transportation by a mere 5 percent at a cost of $68 billion in additional subsidies and a loss of $5.3 billion in road related taxes.
He concludes,
"In reality, such a shift would probably require a substantial increase in the rate of road-transport taxation, that would increase transport
costs at large, thereby reducing intra and international trade and its associated benefits, at a high social cost."
http://www.rprudhomme.com/resources/2005...
Just what the economy needs, another heavily subsidized railway.
The monorail failed because it did not go to the airport and downtown. Had it done so, it would have been a different story.
This train will fail because it goes to nowhere (Victorville). If they extend it immediately during the first phase to Riverside or into the LA basin, it will succeed.
@Banana_Joe You better love the idea of driving from Victorville into LA.
No worry, the trip on I-15 and I-10 will only take an hour.
And one has to ask if this will really be self-sustaining or will it end up being like Amtrak where the government has to shovel money into it for decades rather than admit it is a dismal failure on many routes. I believe I heard a year or two ago that what the government subsidizes a New Orleans to LA ticket on Amtrak is enough to buy a first class plane ticket. If this really made sense, wouldn't private companies be falling over each other to build this. But then why would they if they can get the government to underwrite a big chunk of it. Or maybe a big chunk of an arena would work.
San Diegan here. So let me get this straight. I drive to Victorville, get out and my girlfriend and I spend $100 one way to get to Vegas where we have to rent a car or take a cab. $200 round trip. Or we can spend $36 for round-trip gas from Victorville to Vegas and skip the cab/monorail ride fees. $36 or $200 plus? Easy decision.
While high-speed rail is clearly the way to go, I'm not certain that the planners understand the concept of how public transportation works. High-speed rail only works well if you have a pre-existing network of light rail that it connects to on both ends. For example, I walk down the street, get a trolley, it takes me to the high-speed rail line which takes me to the Vegas strip where I take light rail up and down the strip to get to my hotel. Vegas doesn't have a strip light rail line (Sorry that monorail meanders and costs way to much) and there isn't trolley within a mile of me and the high-speed rail isn't coming to downtown San Diego. Or even downtown Anaheim. There's a long way to go on this one. I expect multiple stumbles.
California's pre existing light rail is also a major flop. Nevadans should wait and watch as the rail projects sink California into more debt...
I just returned to the USA after working overseas for the past24years.
Most of my work was on High Speed and 4 metro projects. Yes high speed will create job, as an example from my work experience
Taiwan High Speed Rail 21,000 men and women
Bangkok metro 16,000 men and women
MLR, Manila 17,000 men and women
Dubai Metro 18,000 men
That's a lot folks. Of course here in the USA one can add 30% more people because of unions.
the typical cost per mile for high speed rail in the US is approximately 50 to 70 million dollars per mile. The Cal HS Rail project, 400 miles, 33 Billion dollars or about 82 million per mile.
All of the States are now bidding for Government monies to design and build HS rail projects. None has any HS experience
Amongst my group of HS folks we figure between 10 and 15 men in the entire USA that has high speed experience.
Good Ruck
Taiwan high speed rail went bankrupt last year.
Highway's cost as little as $2.5 million per lane mile.
Everyone is missing the main point here.
Work the train for 1 year,get laid off,and COLLECT 99 weeks of unemployment again!
Sounds like a great cyclical way to make some easy money
ROFL
peace out
And by the way,im leaving for san diego shortly to pick up some flip flops,and unfortunately i have to come back tonight!
So that means if i leave la jolla around 8-9 pm,WELL ill be back in vegas about ,well,yeh maybe Fing monday!(inbound traffic from cali's coming to walk up and down the strip,and spend no money!)
peace out
good news everyone
STUPID PROJECT AND JUST A WASTE OF MONEY!! THIS IS REID'S TRAIN TO NOWHERE! THIS WILL BE ANOTHER FAILED PROJECT JUST LIKE THE CITY CENTER.
Stop this stupid project and get the true High Speed rail project back on track, with a terminus in downtown Los Angeles, not Victorville
Amtrak is having trouble largely because it isn't drawing riders. Recent agreements that elevated passenger train priority on the tracks above freight has helped that a lot.
I enjoy Amtrak and ride it when it is "going my way" and I have a reasonable amount of time to take it.
Riding to LasVegas may be problematic since the "LA" terminus is so far out in the boonies and parking in Sin City is free.
Going to SanFran it makes sense since I live reasonably close to the station in Reno and parking in the City by the Bay is Horrendous.
Of course the last leg is by bus... hint, hint.
Oh, and sanctimonious Europeans can look at the synthetics they use, the fertilizers applied to the land, transport of goods, etc. instead of pointing the finger at us and blaming the Gulf mess. We are all in this together, folks! Have fun paying the Ukrainian extortion.
They should do it then. Trains are eco-friendly in comparison to cars and airplanes. It's just that having these high speed trains would hurt the auto industry because less cars would need to be replaced or repaired.
The economy will bounce back. Government spending created many jobs in the Great Depression, Hoover Dam for example. Some view that as socialism, others as a wise public investment -- a cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth
It doesn't have to be a high speed train. How about a comfortable train with restaurant and bars and fun? People would enjoy it the same way. Like an old western style train where people start the weekend party when hopping on ? Even if it would take 6 hours to get you to Vegas, what's the problem? I think this would be really fun. And you could use the existing track or perhaps would have to build one next to the existing not to interfer with the cargo trains. I am sure that this would do the same job, and a ride for 20 dollars per person, why not? I think I might even do that for nostalgic reasons in the future...a western style coach train to Plaza , Downtown, Las Vegas :)
From Switzerland
The hub should be at the airport or very close with a tunnel to the airport. One could fly into Las Vegas and then take the high speed train to LA rather than have the hassle and the traffic problems at LAX.
Let's get cracking on this!
If we can't trust DesertXpress to finish their FEIR, how can we trust that they'll extend it to Palmdale when it's not in the official plan? Heck, i've already read somewhere (Curbed LA blog) from someone deeply involved with the venture that it won't break ground till March 2011, and that that will be officially announced soon.
The Maglev would be built in pieces, too, but it's searching for funding for the whole project. The group behind the Maglev is taking it's time, but in the long run, it will benefit them.
That is an awesome train station! And 50,000 jobs would be great too. Looking forward to this project taking off as soon as possible.
After the pyramids in Egypt were completed all constructions jobs became temporary. Nobody in the construction business works a lifetime on the same project. All construction labor jobs are temporary; they end when the project is completed.
I am surprised to see how many of you are rejecting this plan. It will cost you nothing in taxes or fares if you don't want to ride it. Nobody said you have to rent a car. I'm sure there will be ground transportation (shuttles) like the airport that will take you to the Strip or downtown for $6-8 bucks.
I doubt anyone who has complained about the cost has actually driven I-15 from downtown San Diego to Vegas on a Friday afternoon. It takes 10 hours!
The only downside I see is the lack of scenery along the route. Kinda like driving thru a Roadrunner & Wile E Coyote cartoon.
Hey, Boris, you got it, dude. That's what I was dreaming all about, old style, but including aircondition, so you could read or write or sleep or phone or do whatever while the train took you to your destination, L.A. or Las Vegas.
@westvegas: I would never mind driving myself from Vegas to L.A. and back on the same day in a new car with an aircondition, if it were just once per holiday or once in a month, otherwise you'd better live in the same city or another nearby where you work.
Regards
Banana_Joe
Boris "Let's not forget, before this train project would be finished, there will be no water left for Vegas. And no water means no electric power from Lake Mead / Hover Dam. Where would that power needed come from instead? Solar plants?"
Why do you insist on injecting you incorrect thoughts. For example only 3% of the power supplied to me in LV comes from all hydroelectric power.
I agree with the other comments. It would be more like 10,000 jobs over 5 years across 2 states. Good chance the jobs will go to people out of state and even the country. Possibly the same with the equipment would come from over seas.
Seems like Cali would be getting most of the buildings and permanent jobs. Old steel wheel technology that still not be fast enough to be a strong option for travel. Lastly going to the wrong places.
Sounds like this sour lemon will be pushed on us under the idea of providing jobs.
In the future how much would jet fuel cost compared to current prices. I can see high speed train as viable alternative to flying. Airline ticket prices will never be less than what it used to be even comparing prices from a just a few years ago. With all the extra charges from airline companies and high ticket prices because of high fuel cost, high speed train will be beneficial to Las Vegas but it will also have to be extended to Southern CA and not just to Victorville for it to be an alternative mode of transportation.
Well I guess you could compare this to the British Concord....they built it and to the VERY LAST flying day...it never made money. The Brits subsidized to the very end.Small and tight seats,very uncomfortable...and very expensive.But not for the general public...much like this train idea.
@bape702 :
Hey, fella, for sure people mostly have read the article. And I suppose, at least from my point of view, most people for years have been thankfully awaiting any rail connection crossing the desert, so no-one would have to drive through the desert in an old (pickup) truck.
Just in case you did not understand commenters comments here: most of them are commenting about modifications to be made from the commenters point of view to satisfy the commenters needs.
Like the Boris, me too, dreaming of an old style train (maybe even run by coals:) to cross the desert within a similar time you need crossing it by car today. No tube, no high-speed, no exagerated costs, no big somwhere-else-job thing for NV, just a simple train aside to the already existing rails crossing the desert anyhow.
Please do not try to make anyone here believe, it would take decades to build a track aside to the existing rails and establish a simple train there.
To me it seems like you have not even tried yet to drive across the desert to L.A. in the summer months.
Regards
Banana_Joe
In the 1970's to 1980's time-period - during the gasoline shortage - Clark County was thiniing about building a high-speed rail train route to California to generate business. There was a small office in the airport with the words: "Las Vegas Experimental Rail" printed on the glass.
Because I had developed a "love-affair" with this town, I thought I could help to make this happen. SO, I did some research about right-of-ways, existing rail (belonging to AMTRAK), called the DOT, Members of Congress, Nevada politicians (Including, yes, Sen. Harry Reid) to get support - and tell Casino executives and others the benefits of my idea. Since Casinos were losing $5 MILLION a day back then due to the gas shortage, I thought they would jump at the idea.
MY IDEA WAS: build a high-speed rail to Orange County, CA - financed by casions, the State of Nevada, et al. People with train tickes would park their car in a lot in Orange County (FREE), ride NON-STOP to Las Vegas on a round trip ticket. Then they would be picked up in Las Vegas by their Casino/Hotel in a car that would take them to their hotel - just like we do for airport travelers.
To provide "the "JUICE" to make it work, my idea was to have a Jazz band (or similar) FREE entertainment on the train - including free snacks and soda's (pay for booze). Thus, a whole trainload of people would arrive in a "Las Vegas FUN MOOD" - 3 hours later. They would be ready to "roll the dice" when they arrived - and would have nothing to do but get off the train and get into a waiting car.
The CASINOS WOULD BENEFIT from this as free word-of-mouth advertising, because customer satisfaction would be excellent; and it would be a fabulous marketing technique.
HOWEVER, - all my ideas and efforts were relegated to a dusty brown folder. Most people I talked to were negative on the idea. They quoted difficulties getting rail or land right-of-way, said it would cost too much, there could be no fare-guarantees, etc., etc.
SO I LET THE IDEA DIE. And so did Clark County when the gasoline prices came down. BUT, Wwhat is so different today that will make it work?
DesertXpress Enterprises LLC wants to build a $4 BILLION rail, HALF-WAY to California. That is totally illogical. There is no incentive to ride a train if you have to drive on I-15 FROM California to Victorville. THAT IS THE WORST PART OF A CAR TRIP TO LAS VEGAS. The terrain is mountainous, traffic moves slow, there are frequent accidents and seasonal Rain, Snow, Ice, and Fog.
The many opponents posted herein are right; I say cancel it. This train will just be aother "monorail" experiment - that will fail due to lack of ridership.
Sorry, The-Socratic-Inkwell, but still do disagree as a simple tourist from Europe, where we do have lots of mountains and rain/snow/fog many times. Believe me: no problem to drive.
That's why to me the hardest part would not be driving along mountain roads/through wind storm/snow/fog/rain, but along the endless highways where you can see the horizon with time seeming to stand still and you wish you could teleport to that horizon, without having to drive all the way cross the endless desert with wrecked trucks and helpless drivers standing aside to the interstate because of the desert heat.
That's why I'd prefer to get into a rented car not in Vegas, but at the end-point where a possible simple train (no free music band/free soda/snacks, etc. needed) stopped, therefore I only had to drive into the heart of L.A. in a rented car, which I could give back in the evening when going back to Las Vegas by train, let's say at 8 p.m. to be back home around midnight to get some sleep and to get up at 5 a.m. next morning to do it all over again.
So, I could live in beloved Las Vegas, but find work in L.A. or vice versa live in L.A. and easily come to Vegas at weekends using my own car doing some free park-and-ride to the train station. Yes, I could easily park my own car at the L.A.-near park-and-ride and go by "The Deuce" bus meanwhile I was in Vegas, so I could use my own car when working in L.A., love that thought.
I'd also love that thought, if I was a Vegas resident looking for work in the greater L.A. area. Yes, I think it's more a Vegas permanent resident's thing than bringing more tourists to Vegas, yes, it is.
Regards
Banana_Joe
Active1, I think I get the feeling as if this Desert_X-press pipe-dream persues only one idea: Get into the people's minds that there are jobs being created. Just like some 100 +/- years ago when they decided to build the Hoover Dam. This, in fact, did create new jobs and helped the people in the area out of the unemployment and depression. And it opened all doors for a booming Las Vegas. I think they have a similar dream with this Desert-X-press.
This time, however, conditions are different:
This Desert fast train is not a necessity. Not yet. Gas is still available on all corners of the world. Ok, China's thirst of gas has become just as big as U.S.' so chances are that we will reach oil peak sooner than we would like it happen. Once oil gets really exensive and driving around in big SUV's becomes a luxury will be the defining moment when people must/will change their behavior.
People visiting Vegas usually do not have much economical reasonning. They're going there to have fun, gamble with their money, and having a good time. They don't try to squeeze out 5 dollars travel expenses on a 3 or 4 hour longer ride until they are in Vegas. And most car drivers are just too lazy to walk a bit and be without their car. I see this with my own co-workers. Most can't understand why I don't want to have a car at this time. But believe me: It really works over here. It's a new experience, but it's possible. It's probably something we all will have to get used to some day, perhaps our next generations. Mobility is fine, but it's only possible as long as there's cheap energy available. Wait till 1 gallon of gas goes up to 10, 15 or maybe 20 dollars, and inflation isn't as high. Let's see how many people will then buy super big trucks just to show the world what a "Real McCoy" they are. They are not.
From Switzerland
p.s. If this mission goes under way, I think the very best and most competent company for such a project would be German electronic industrial supply giant Siemens, along with others. But I can't imagine that for instance General Electric would be technically ready for this.
Why not put the station in "Death Valley" - it's just down the road!
OK folks, enough about these pie in the sky trains. They are talking about $4 billion from private investors. Where is the money. What invester in their right mind would invest in a train to Victorville. This is not going to happen!
Boris -- You crack me up. Yesterday I met a couple from Austria here in LV. They just moved here from Europe. They were driving the biggest Hummer I had ever seen -- they just bought it two weeks ago. What's up with that? I thought Euros were more sensible about the environment? Maybe they think they are driving a Tiger Tank? Help me out on this one. Maybe it's an Austrian/German thing?
Back on topic: Why is this train based in Victorville? Is the crack pipe still warm? Who in their right mind is going to drive from southern CA, stop in VV, and get on this train?
I am sorry, this will not work. This idea makes no sense. It is doomed to failure. I support the idea of a train -- but let's do it right. Let's have a high speed Maglev going to San Diego County, LA County, and Orange County.
Check out my amazing LV blog:
http://jimmyhoofa-lv.blogspot.com/
The original concept was Maglev from the Disney corridor in Anaheim Ca. to Las Vegas. This idea made sense, allowing the Vegas traveler to go to Disneyland, take in a baseball or hockey game, maybe a trip to Knotts, all in one long week end. Conversely, the California traveler could come to Las Vegas without spending 5 hrs on the road and get away from the Indian scalpers running the sawdust joints in Ca. Then this dumb Victorville train idea emerged from nowhere backed by Dirty Harry and his cronies. The result was no federal high speed funding for Nevada, and the little Federal money that was allocated to Maglev ended up being transferred to the airport. This, in spite of the fact that Harry controls the Senate. Nevadans need to wake up; this man is not looking out for you.
Jimmyhoofa, I am sorry to hear this. This embarrasses all Europeans that I thought are more sensible about wasting energy. Obviously these folks are a special breed. Perhaps some generated European species that also likes to enjoy the fact that in the U.S. gas is way to cheap compared to all other countries in the western world....
I was just checking on a gas station not even 3 days ago. I liter of gasoline costs right now about 1.70sfr. That is about 1.60 usd per liter, and if you like to know how much this is per gallon....wait a sec, let me convert that.... it's ...... a whopping ....... 6.08 usd per gallon!!! What do you say now?
I can imagine if somebody moves to America, perhaps a gambler flying on cloud 7 after hitting a big jackpot anywhere in this world and now starts a new life in Las Vegas, these people believe that they also have to own such a nasty Hummer. I can't find any one reason why there's any sense in having this car, but obviously there's crazy people around all over the world.
Besides this, it is to be said that China is now leveled-up with the U.S. , energy-consumption wise. What this means, is clear: China nees just as much gasonline as the U.S. and everyone knows that the U.S. uses more than 2x as much energy per person than any other nation in the world. In other words.... the world will very very soon no look like it used to look like. Energy consumption is so high that in only very few years oil price will explode or other ways of mobility will have to be developed.
I do not have a car, and I am proud of it. It's not as convenient as having a car and driving wherever I like, but at least I save some money and do not use any oil for mobility at all. That's my little part I can do.
Greetings from Switzerland
At least you're doing the right thing, Boris, especially regarding that catastrophy caused by BP.
I still hope Obama makes BP pay for the whole mess they created.
Regards
Banana_Joe
I think the Maglev is a much better idea, and what the hell is in Victorville?
We need to make train travel competitive with air travel which at this point is like riding a bus. The Europeans and the Japanese have the right idea about train travel, we need to jump on the bandwagon. It's the wave of the future.
Banana_Joe: Your comment about driving in the mountains of Europe with snow, rain, fog etc., may be a reasonable parallel to driving from California on I-15 to Victorville. The traffic pattern (as those who have driven it know) may a "normal situation" - but not if the only reason was to get to Victorvlle, CA, so they could get on a train for the OTHER HALF of their trip to Las Vegas.
They would have to PAY for PARKING their car (thousands of them) - hopefully in a safe, controlled, paved? (probably not) lot, for up to a week. They would need a CAR WASH when they returned. (I bet THAT would not make them happy!)
BUYING LAND for the train depot must include buying land for parking cars too, and security - both in Victorville, AND in Las Vegas for travelers opriginating in Las Vegas. BUT, HOW would travelers originating in LAS VEGAS, get to their destination in California upon arriving in Victorville? RENT A CAR? Maybe this is just a limited-scope tourist train.
So they pay to drive, they pay to park, they pay to get on a train, and they pay again in Las Vegas to get to their hotel. If the visitors choose to rent a car in Las Vegas, this would require thousands of rental cars to be stored.
And all these cars, taxi's, busses, or limos, would set up a whole new TRAFFIC PATTERN in Las Vegas; VEHICLE VOLUMES that the streets of Las Vegas are not designed to handle (nor could they be).
Only the AIRPORT is set up to store and supply the number of cars that would be needed daily - and it is not located near the current train tracks that exist (downtown). Yet, a very high and economically necessary profit-model would require such provisions to accomodate very high PASSENGER VOLUMES. And forget the Monorail. Visitors are not going to haul their family and luggage around in their car, the train, another car or bus - to their hotel.
ALl THIS TRAVEL could cost more time - and money - than it is supposed to SAVE. So the economic model is out of whack. THIS is why it will be doomed to fail. A lack of Customer Service and Satisfaction - plus poor planning, convience, and economics - will kill it.
In my prior post, I gave an example of a NON-STOP train from Orange County (south of L.A.) as one idea as to how a train run could work. (My train idea was posted on 7/24 @ 12:22 a.m. It is based on my experience with traffic and passenger models for highway and train routes that I assisted in developing in Alexandria, Virginia.
Why "fun" on the train, you may ask? Because that's what Las Vegas is all about. Wisitor's expect it. That's the draw! "One fabulous town in one exciting place" Viva Las Vegaas!
Damn, The-Socratic-Inkwell you're right, I was only thinking about local residents living downtown desperately seeking work in L.A., so they would park their own car at the not-yet-existing park-and-ride of the not-yet-existing train near L.A. to go to work and back to the park-and-ride in the evening and during the week in the evening would go by "The Deuce" bus at home downtown.
I have not thought about any tourist traveling to Vegas by train ...and by the way, I never doubted your expertise in this field, not for a second.
Viva Las Vegas!
Regards
Banana_Joe
Why does this issue continue to be a "hot" issue when none of the proponents seems to have done any kind of marketing study to see if there will be ridership on any rail system LA-LV? Oh yes, there is an $8B Obama slush fund that is up for grabs. The MagLev proposal will take 25 years to build and be at an astronomical cost. That $8B will not even cover the rights-of-way, much less the construction costs. I would NEVER ride a train that dead-ends in Victorville - even if it is free. I am currently in favor of some sort of "fun train" LA-LV that would be subsidized by the casino companies. The rails are in place already of course. (Haven't you seen trains passing through Las Vegas?). Spend a minimal amount of money to upgrade the out of service passenger terminal Las Vegas has, or build a simple loading platform adjacent to and around the center of The Strip (Flamingo, perhaps?). Casinos already have shuttles to the airport, so the shuttles could swing by the train platform to meet incoming trains. A limited passenger train service to LV needs to be run on a trial basis to see if people will ride the train. The "If You Build It, They Will Come", attitude is a disaster costing billions (or higher) with no chance of ever being successful. Trying to mimic other nations' HS rail is strictly an ego-trip that has no validity.