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Foreclosure investors suing over HOA, collection fees
A stagnant pool is shown in Ventana Canyon in Henderson, whose homeowners association is one being sued by investors.
Published Thursday, Jan. 28, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Updated Thursday, Jan. 28, 2010 | 11:41 a.m.
Sun archives
- Las Vegas leads nation in foreclosures for 2009 (1-27-2010)
- Michael Jackson’s former Las Vegas home fetches $3.1 million (1-27-2010)
- Report: Fall in Las Vegas home prices reaches 39 months (1-26-2010)
- Nicolas Cage’s foreclosed Las Vegas home sells for $4.95 million (1-25-2010)
- Foreclosures hit ZIP code 89031 the hardest (1-22-2010)
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Depending on who is doing the talking, investors buying foreclosed homes in the Las Vegas area are either being gouged by greedy homeowners associations or are contributing to neighborhood decay by failing to maintain their newly purchased properties.
Those charges flew Wednesday as news circulated that investment groups had filed class action lawsuits in Las Vegas claiming they are being overcharged by hundreds of homeowners associations and collection agencies for assessments, fines, interest and collection costs that typically accumulate while homes sit vacant during foreclosure proceedings.
The lawsuits, filed by Adams Law Group Ltd., said the associations and their collection agencies charge investors more than what the law allows.
That past-due amounts are capped by law at the equivalent of nine months of association assessments and can include a combination of regular assessments, fines and other charges. After acquiring properties, investors must pay monthly assessments as well as fines like everyone else.
One lawsuit seeking class action status was filed Friday in District Court in Clark County against about 125 homeowners associations, claiming civil racketeering, negligence and breach of fiduciary duty, among other assertions.
Attorney James Adams said he was filing a second class action lawsuit Wednesday against eight collection agencies that work for the associations, claiming they, too, have wrongly collected excessive funds from the investors.
Adams said in a typical deal, an investor may buy a vacant property, paint it, fix it up and then resell it, all to the benefit of the community.
But at the closing of the sale, the investor may get hit with invoices for assessments, fines, interest and collection costs for which the investor may not be responsible, he said. These overcharges can vary widely and typically amount to a few thousand dollars, he said.
“The investors feel they are being ripped off,” Adams said, adding overcharges may have totaled millions of dollars in recent years.
None of the defendants has responded to the lawsuits, but two executives at association management companies Wednesday disputed the assertion that associations are deliberately trying to overcharge investors.
The managers said collection agencies and title companies may be informing investors of the total amount of liens piled up against properties, but that’s a far cry from requiring the investors to pay more than what’s legally obligated.
Besides, the managers said, some banks are being good citizens and paying all of the lien amounts — not just what’s due under the nine-month rule.
The bigger issue for the managers is that while homes sit vacant awaiting foreclosure, regular monthly assessments and fines pile up — and most of that amount has to be written off as bad debt.
The situation is extreme in Las Vegas, which led the nation in foreclosures in 2009, according to RealtyTrac statistics Wednesday.
The associations frequently have to shell out money to contractors to work on rundown properties, deal with stagnant and toxic swimming pools and to water lawns and vegetation. If that money can’t be recovered from previous or new owners, it hits association budgets, jeopardizing their maintenance programs.
Although there are some responsible investors, many fail to maintain their newly acquired homes and don’t pay association assessments on time — repeating the problems experienced when the homes were in foreclosure, managers say.
“Everyone wants a good deal,” said Jamie McCafferty, president of Excellence Community Management, which works with about 125 associations. “But not everyone wants to step up to the plate to maintain the property to community standards.”
At Terra West Property Management, which serves more than 170 homeowners associations, spokeswoman Wendy Linow agreed with Adams on one point: The Legislature and state regulatory agencies may need to get involved to help resolve disputes over which expenses investors are responsible for.
Linow said lawmakers may also need to clarify when the nine-month cap begins and ends.
In the meantime, Linow defended the present system in which investors apparently are being asked in some cases to pay off fines and past-due assessments they are not legally responsible for.
“The collection industry in any industry will ask for the full balance due and in many cases the foreclosing entity will pay it all off,” she said.
The plaintiffs in the Jan. 22 lawsuit are Higher Ground LLC, RRR Homes LLC, Triple Braided Cord LLC, Equisource LLC, Equisource Holdings LLC, Appleton Properties LLC, CBRIS LLC, Mega LLC and Southern Nevada Acquisitions LLC.
The approximately 125 associations sued include the Aliante Master Association, Desert Shores Community Association, Elkhorn Community Association, Estates at Seven Hills Owners Association and Seven Hills Master Community Association, Estates at Stallion Mountain Homeowners Association and the Stallion Mountain Community Association; and the Green Valley Ranch Community Association.
Also among those sued were the Mountains Edge Master Association, Panorama Towers Condominium Unit Owners Association, Peccole Ranch Community Association, Platinum Unit Owners Association, Rhodes Ranch Association, Sky
Las Vegas Condominum Unit Owners Association, Southern Highlands Community Association, Summerlin South Community Association, Sun City Anthem Community Association, Sun City Macdonald Ranch Association, Sun City Summerlin Community Association and Sundridge at Macdonald Ranch Community Association.
The collection agencies to be sued Wednesday were Nevada Association Services Inc., RMI Management Inc. dba Red Rock Financial Services; Homeowner Association Services Inc., Alessi & Koenig, Hampton & Hampton, Angius & Terry Collections LLC, Eugene Burger Management Corp. and Silver State Trustee Services LLC.
David Stone, president of collection company Nevada Association Services, denied Thursday that his company tries to collect money beyond what is allowed by law -- and claimed the investors are trying to strong-arm homeowner associations into reducing fees so the investors make more money.
"These are not sympathetic plaintiffs," he said. "They are real estate speculators taking advantage of foreclosures and people losing their homes. Every dollar saved is a dollar in their pocket."
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Pack up your bags, and get out, homeowners. Let the HOA's hold the bag.
Why would you stay in places like Lake Las Vegas, where property values are falling like a hookers pants? Let the banks fight the HOA's-they have the money and the time.
Sure, you lost your down payment and your equity (hah!), but you can always rent a nice place in North Las Vegas. Right, Bouvier?
that HOA for you bunch of Nazi's oh well, if investor want to buy foreclosure they have deal with all the paperwork and any money the homeowner has accumulated investor u can't have it both paid up u bastard
Here's the thing - while the house is sitting in foreclosure and the bank is essentially 'owning' it they should be keeping the property up so that it doesn't negatively affect the rest of the neighborhood - they should also being paying the monthly dues just like everyone else who owns a home in that association has to do - but they DON'T - they let the house, yard etc go to pot and they don't pay the monthly dues - so who should have to foot the bill for that? The rest of the homeowners? I don't think so.... If the bank just kept the property up and paid the monthly dues there wouldn't be any assessments or fines to go to court to fight over - so in the end the money needs to be paid - the investors need to shut up and pay up - or like someone else suggested - go find a ghetto area in North Las Vegas and go live there - I'm sure it's cheap enough for even the cheapest of skates
why is there a 9 month cap...
who wrote that piece of legislation???
the banks???
HOA's are power hungry facist organizations which should be OUTLAWED!
sounds like the HOA's are being deceitful. Why give a bill for the "total" amount of liens on a property, knowing that they can only charge for up to 9 months worth? I'm betting that they're preying on someone that doesn't know the law i.e., myself, that would just pony up the money and pay-though it's far more than what is legally supposed to charge...WTF. I hate HOA's.
Fines and assessments are not given out like a lottery. You get fined when you ignore warnings you will be fined unless you maintain your property, ie green pool, this is to protect all homeowners. I wouldn't live anywhere without a HOA, sure they can be neighborhood ninnies but it the long haul they protect your investment. Drive around town you can spot a non-HOA neighborhood by unkept yards etc. These investers want to make money but don't care about Nevada or their neighbors
I hope these HOA's lose their shirts in court. Why should a new owner (investor/homeowner/whoever) be responsible for picking up the unpaid HOA's by the previous owner if it is not stated in the purchase price? If the buyer knows that the old HOA's are part of the price? Then that's their decision to buy it. If the HOA is trying to tack the unpaid HOA's from the previous owner on at the signing date then that's B.S. I hate HOA's. They have all these rules that only get enforced on the people who follow the rules in the first place. The peole who break the rules are usually renters, don't give a damn, and move out to infect another area. Terra Worst can go crash & burn for all I care.
azsk8fan and DonnaL have it right.
The note holder, ie the bank, should have been required in keeping the property up so the fines don't keep adding up. The HOA's are in the right to try and collect whatever monies it is due the Association. When the HOA does NOT collect the monies, all the members in the HOA suffer and will end up having to pay even more in association dues, which normally pisses everyone off and 99% of the time is grossly unfair.
It is obvious many who have posted know nothing about HOA's and even though the HOA's get a bad rap all the time, without them - your neighborhood would be &hit! And your property values, even though they suck right now, would even be lower than they are! As Donna said - you can tell on sight which neighborhoods are not HOA's.
Admit it: It's likely those who speak negatively here (with some downright idiotic comments) are mad because they got dinged (or know someone who did) for not keeping the property up to the HOA standards or have one too many cars in the driveway, with one having a flat tire or created "noise nuisances" or had some ridiculous request submitted to the ARC and were turned down (no - you can't paint your house pink!). I have seen people lose their homes because they put up a black gate instead of a cream color one. You ALL know when you buy a home in an HOA, there are rules and regulations that must be followed. Some are a little stupid, but most are not. They are there for your own good and most are reasonable for the safety and quality of the neighborhood.
My money is on the HOA's winning this one since they have every right to collect what is rightfully belongs to them. The investors should have done their homework before getting greedy and buying multiple properties without checking first what HOA dues are delinqunet AND for liens. Ignorance is no excuse but then when they allowed greed to supersede everything else - they're getting what they deserve....THEN they start whining.
Homeowner associations are entirely un-American. No-one really "Owns" their home if they cannot do whatever they want to it, do whatever they want on it, having to pay monthly association dues at rates decided by the associations but never negotiated on, or have to worry about someone filing a lien on their home and taking it away through foreclosure if they don't pay those dues. HOA's belong in countries that have tyrannical governments, not here in America. I am an American and I believe I should be able to freely live anywhere in America and quietly enjoy my property without someone interfering with it, my rights to it, and my ownership of it.
There are laws that cap the fines and fees. The associations will lose. I happily purchased a home that is not in an association just because I am tired of fighting with HOAs and their management companies. I have been in arbitration against two associations in the past and I won. However it cost me a lot of time and frustration. HOAs and property management companies think they are God. The last one was a gated community and the HOA decided that they were going to leave the gates open from 6am to 6pm. We lost all security. The HOA fees doubled in 5 yrs. HOAs are a ripoff!
Question for anti H.O.A. belly achers?
Did you know that you were buying a home in a H.O.A. governed 'project' when you bought your home?
While the H.O.A. can be really really annoying at times I appreciate the fact that our zip is neat and clean and my home still worth more than those homes in the areas that don't have any covenants[140,000 instead of 100,000]!
I owned a condo with an HOA, and the organization seemed to prioritize some people over others simply because the human beings behind the HOA were playing favorites. It seemed that some rules were applied more than others depending on who was involved. So in theory, I see some value in HOAs, but when it comes to the human beings that enforce them, I think they're bad inventions. When I sold my condo and went looking for a house, I insisted on no HOA. I found a house, but before buying it, I checked out the neighborhood several times, at different times of day for several days, to try to get a feel for it. It seemed okay. That was 5 years ago. Never had a problem with the neighbors or the neighborhood.
Stay away from Sonrisa HOA, Terra West and Colonial Property Mngt companies. Both selectively enforce CC&Rs
PMMART
Yes I did know there was a HOA. However the board and the propety managemnt companies selectively enforce the CC&Rs and the rules and regulations. When there are a lot of out of state owners, no one stands a chance at forcing compliance. It is very time consuming to go thru arbitration and all of them know this. Therefoe they run everything as they wsee fit without abiding by the CC&Rs and the rules and regulations.
THE REASON THESE 'INVESTOR' PEOPLE ARE SUING IS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO TURN THE PROPERTIES INTO "INVESTMENTS" FOR
SECTION 8
SECTION 42
AND MORE GOVERNMENT GRAVY TRAIN FREE LOAN PROGRAM CRAP-OLA.
THESE JERKS COULD CARE LESS IF THE HOUSE LOOKS GOOD OR NOT. OR IF THE VALUE IMPROVES. OR IF THE NEW 'TENANTS' PARK THEIR CARS ON THE LAWN, DO DRUGS, RUN PROSTITIUTION RINGS, COOK METH, BLARE MUSIC AND DOGS ALL NIGHT, OR IF HOMEOWNER DUES ARE *NEVER* PAID...
THEY JUST WANT PROPERTY....CHEEEEEEEEP...AS POSSIBLE....
THESE 'CAREER-CARPETBAGGER-INVESTORS' ONLY WANT TO DESTROY THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND CARVE OUT A BIG BUCK PROFIT FOR THEMSELVES.
HEY JUDGE, TELL THESE INVESTOR CREEPS TO POUND SAND.
NoMore
Re the open gates. You as a member of the HOA had a VOTE on a situation such as this because it involves the security of the community. Did you? The HOA and/or management company cannot do certains things without a vote from the membership. The "open gate" thing falls under approval from the membership. Did the HOA put it to a vote of all the members?
As pmmart said - you KNOW when you purchase a home in an HOA there are rules, regulations and Covenants. You are supposed to READ them and sign off that you did and understand that the community is an HOA. It is part of the transaction in buying the home. You have no idea how many times people just blow that off and NEVER read anything. They just sign the pages necessary stating that they read everything. Then when a problem arises - they get mad at the HOA and start whining. Sometimes they won, some times they lost.
Las Vegas isn't the only place with HOA's. MOST cities with condo developments, co-ops, gated communities, etc have some sort of "homeowners associations" but under a different name. They are there to protect the members and have been around for years with not so much bitching as happens in Vegas. I know in downtown Chicago, most condo associations can say yes or no to a prospective buyer. 99% of the time, the members of the Board approve the potential buyer, but I know of instances where they did not, and mostly because the buyer lied about financial stability, ie didn't have the job they said nor the financial means to pay a $1500 month mortgage plus teh monthly assessment. So these associations have good points and bad points.
I'm sure the negative comments come from people who were foreclosured upon and are the same people who ripped out everything from the home and sold it on craigslist. You people knew when you purchased a home if there was or was not a HOA. Now, because you dont' like the rules, you bitch. Shut the hell up. Nobody cares because, most likely, you dont' keep your house up, you want your 15 cars and yo mamma to run her ho business out of the home, etc. I'm so sick of people not taking responsibility for their own actions. As for these investors - sorry you re the reason that most people have lost everything. Had you not come into Nevada in the first place, driven up the cost of a home that was truly worth $85,000 and the developer sold for for $300,000 because you and your "investors" scooped them up left and right - well get the hell out of Nevada and quit your slimy-ass investing. Otherwise pay up like everyone else did and does. You can't pay, don't buy. We as Nevada citizens don't want you here anyway. LEAVE LEAVE LEAVE and the sooner the better. And, BANKS, listen up. Quit being so freaking greedy. Let those of us who want to buy one your foreclosures and truly care about Nevada buy one instead of hoarding them so you can collect more money. Let's quit gouging the public like you have done for years. No, you may not be able to go to the Bahamas 15 times a year on a bonus you don't deserve, but if you want to become human beings again do what is right. THE BANKS, THE INVESTORS, THE BROKERS -- all cheats and liars. Nothing has changed.
"The managers said collection agencies and title companies may be informing investors of the total amount of liens piled up against properties, but that's a far cry from requiring the investors to pay more than what's legally obligated."
Uh, sure. Nice tapdancing. If the collectors state that the owner owes even a single cent more than they can legally owe, I say the collector is guilty of breaking the law and must pay all legal and associated costs with their legal action plus the $1000 statutory judgment amount as stipulated in the FDCPA. If the collector won't pay, the association must pay. Associations should be careful in hiring collection agencies that do no break the law (good luck finding one).
Amen lawgal !
I am so tired of people whining about the decisions they make of their own free will.
HOAs have their good and bad points, and anyone who buys into one would be well served to read all the rules, talk to current residents about their experiences, etc before making a decision.
As for investors, they should do their own due diligence to see exactly what they will be liable for when aquiring one of these foreclosed propertied.
envorprotector.HOA's protect homeowners from potential neighbors like you.
To the investors who want good deals then they should do a title search and look for judgements, at that point they can pay them or move on. The remaining homeowners who have paid their dues need protection from irresponsible buyers.
I live in Summerlin and appreciate what the HOA's do for my community and my investment. Some people are just ment to live in squalor. I read the HOA rules at closing and those rules were one of the reasons I live in Summerlin.
Why should a bank be able to let a house sit in default for over a year and fail to keep up the area? If they foreclosed them and sold them there would not be an issue. They want to hold them and not pay for the upkeep. That is ridiculous.
These investors want to destroy our neighborhoods.
Right on wizardofoz!
You got it right on the nose.....these investors are trying to put themselves off as the saints coming into Vegas to save the day ? Are you kidding me? They are the problem in fact. They are the reason the banks will not work with homeowners to refinance in the first place. They know they can foreclose on your property, claim it on their insurance, {AIG} and resell it to a cash investor, not pay any HOA dues, or maintain the property, and make a killing. All the backs of the taxpayer. The investors could care less what the property looks like because again, the GOVERNMENT, [taxpayers], is going to foot their monthly mortgage payments because all their "investments" are going to be low income housing. Watch your property values sink further and further during this whole process. No one wants to live in a neighbor that has more rentals then homeowners, or at least, any smart home owner wouldn't.
Everyone there get it now? Its the biggest scam of the century. We got out, we will not pay a dime, and I hope the "investors" lose their bu---!
HOAs are like private governments. People like them and hate them. Outlawing them is a bad idea...people voluntarily associate with an HOA (you don't have to buy a house in an HOA neighborhood). People like HOA neighborhood's because the trade off is worth it to them. Still, the arrangement is voluntary.
Now if public government concentrated its power locally rather than in Washington D.C....imagine the outrage!
Maybe if some of these greedy ?*% banks could modify some mortgages around this disaster area people could stay in their homes. 2017 beofre we will see job growth start again. All i know is that I am down to two days a week of work at a very good job in town. Just re-filed for unemployment benefits.
That pool is actually cleaner then the pool at The Imperial Palace.
If the house was properly maintained and dues would be paid this would not be an issue.
Many of the homeowners maintaining their house, paying their dues are getting their property value driven down by these homes not maintained.
Then as they refuse to pay the dues and more money goes to bad debt HOA's are forced to increase dues to the people that are paying just to maintain what they are offering and maintaining. Lack of maintenance on a property short term could mean reduction in property value and increase in long term costs so cutting today for todays situation could cost everyone long term.
If you are making thousands in flipping then pay or make the banks pay. Don't try to get out of your responsibility so you can line your pockets with more money through your flipping program.
I have seen so many investors do the minimal, pull the dead grass out and put rock down with no plant life. They did not add any curb appeal or value, and they did not get permission so when the new owner buys the home they are now stuck with properly landscaping to the neighborhood standards.
How fair is that?
After reading "nomore's" posts again - all of you in HOA communities should be thankful nomore doesn't live next door to you!!
Two arbitrations?!!! WOW!!
Question to nomore: When living in the HOA communities - how many HOA meetings did you attend? Did you get involved in those meetings ie the situation about leaving the gates open, or did you just throw the meeting notices away and never bother to get involved in your community? Your posts leave a lot to the imagination. Not a "good neighbor" were you?
HOA's have the right to foreclose on any homeowners that don't pay the dues! If they fail to enforce their collection right by taking the property, and let the bank foreclose they should be wiped out just like any other junior lien.They had the opportunity to take the property for the debt and didn't!
A foreclosure should wipe out everything except fed tax liens and property taxes and the new owners should start fresh.
I have two problems with how homeowners associations are run in Las Vegas:
(1) The HOA's demand and ultimately collect fines for non-maintenance of landscaping during pre-foreclosure periods and for the periods after the banks foreclose, and then the HOA's DO NOT use that money to fix and maintain the dead or dying landscape, but instead simply pocket the fine money. In our case, the house across the street from us has had dead landscape for 2 1/2 years, the HOA is collecting fines and under NRS 116 has the power to restore and maintain the landscape, but nothing is being done to protect the aesthetics of our neighborhoods' streets where there are multiple homes with dead landscapes. Collecting landscape non-maintenance fines and using the money to do the work is the whole reason for the "maintain your landscape" part of the CC&Rs in the first place. The claim by the HOA manager in The Sun's story above, that fine money is used for clean up of foreclosure homes landscaping and dirty swimming pools is simply HOA management industry b.s.
(2) You will discover that in many cases, under HOA management contracts, fine money is split between HOA management companies and the HOA's, lining the pockets of the management companies without doing anything to protect the aesthetics of the development's streets...which is the whole reason for the "maintain your landscape" part of the CC&Rs in the first place.
In addition, now that local development companies land sales to homebuilders have dropped off to zero, developer-controlled HOA management companies are all the more desperate to generate HOA management fees, especially fine revenue, to support the lavish lifestyles of the developers who own the management companies. If you live in a "master planned community" which is only partially built out, and are angry with your HOA, figure out who owns its management company and a whole lot of the management company's and its puppet HOA Board of Directors' decision making suddenly has logic to it.
This sentence, from the Sun story, is the HOA management company industry b.s. to which I refer:
"The associations frequently have to shell out money to contractors to work on rundown properties, deal with stagnant and toxic swimming pools and to water lawns and vegetation."
I have never seen it happen in the two HOA's, with foreclosed homes, where my family members live in Las Vegas.
I have never heard of a HOA and management splitting fine money income.
Also I have seen associations fine people and people never pay until the house is sold which the payment is then done through title.
Many HOA's don't spend money to enter and fix as they don't have the capital to do so as so many people are not paying their dues. When they collect the fines often that helps cover bad debt due to lack of payment in association dues.
My association does put any collected fine money that creates a surplus back into the community through capital improvements. It is difficult to manage the small home projects and as an older community there is plenty of capital beautification covering entire street fronts that can take place with this surplus money and not need to add a special assessment.
never buy a home in a HOA, unless it is of last resort. HOAs are nothing more then a little government trying to control thier communities and the lives on the people in it. The HOA fees (tax) are used mainly just to support the HOA (management company, salaries, accountants, etc). They may provide a few services (garabe pick up) but anyone can call a garage company and get service for a lot cheaper, etc. One big rip off.
How to avoid this problem, well first off do not buy or invest in a home where there are HOA's involved. If you buy or invest with HOA/Condo fees then deal with it and get over yourselves.
Hoa's hould be outlawed!!
Hey...Both the investors and the HOA's are crooks anything new here.I say reform time is now for both
HOA's are a neccessity is Las Vegas for the sheer reason that people think owning a home gives them the right to put a refrigerator on the front lawn, park all kinds of commercial vehicles on the lawn, leave junk all over the place, paint the house deep pink...shall I go on? Vegas breeds a lot of knuckleheads...like other big cities. You as a homeowner need some type of protection from these idiots. While management companies have their detractors (I'm one of them) I'm not sure where the solution lies. Personally, as someone who maintains his property, keeps it clean, doesn't paint it day glo green and parks his car in the garage...I don't want to live in a neighborhood full of arrogant twits who think they have the right to do anything they want to their property to the detriment of all the surrounding residences.
Let's break down this story and comments --
1. Two small shop lawyers create a class action suit" "Let's bring in any faceless entity that might have money. And let's make sure that the net is cast wide enough that we catch somebody doing something with malice and forethought - so that we can blame on EVERYBODY of being nefarious." Break it down -- Now homeowners who pay assessments ask why the heck are our assessments going up? Why do we have to pay so much in insurance and legal fees? Let's face it, the insurance company is going to ask the Association to settle and pay even if they can prove they didn't do anything. Because if they don't the insurance company will drop them because now the insurance company doesn't want to pay for added defense cost".. So analyze this -- what the real problem? Lawyers who will sue for the drop of the hat with a class action suit that brings in a whole lot of people. PEOPLE not faceless entities". Thank you sleaze lawyers for making my HOA assessments go up. Thank you investors for lining their pockets and picking the pockets of the people who will be your tenant's neighbors.
2. Some Banks are paying the full amount of back assessments that are due to the Association and that is just the sign of a good corporate citizen. Banks are foreclosing -- and thanks to a couple good people in the Assembly finally they are not plundering and pillaging AS MUCH - Banks COULD get by with only 6 months of back assessments now only nine. But that is the Lending institution". These investors have an issue with the bank, the lending institution, that is the holder of the property they are trying to buy. Why are the banks not included in the suit? You have to follow the money". And these investors and sleazy lawyers took a giant leap over one of the main players in the story". The banks foreclosed, some banks being good citizens -- pay what every other owner of a property in an Association pays". The full assessment. And for the fact that some and by all means not all Banks being a good, responsible corporate citizen, the bargain hunting investors and their bargain basement class action suit have whined to the newspaper and conveniently left out a key fact. Richard McArthur and Ellen Spiegel who serve in the Assembly stepped up to the plate last session and helped get some of this solved by requiring banks to let HOAs know when a property was taken over -- before they only recorded the sales when they, the bank, was flipping the property and left the person's name on the Assessor's records who they foreclosed upon, so they the banks could be faceless and unaccountable.
Nice pool!
HOA are biggest antiproperty rights organizations I have ever seen.
It's you f'ing house you should be able to paint it any color you want. Don't like it, don't look at it.
I find houses that are in HOA are so "Milk Toast".....they all look alike and lack any kind of personality whatsever.
The only time I will ever live in a gated community is when its my OWN GATE (and MY RULES), on some acreage (it least 10 acres) out in the country.........ie Virginia, NC or upstate NY.
My moms house in vegas, is not in a HOA, and she is not underwater. I would be willing to bet most houses in HOA are underwater, so much for shelling out money to "protect" your investment.
By the way......when my moms neighbor built a shed (with no permit) right next to the common wall, we called the county......he had to move 10 feet back and they fined him. Also they stopped him from storing his equipment (he is a landscaper) in the backyard, and stopped him from running his business from his home (his workers showed up every morning and parked in front of his house and others).
Didn't cost a us cent. The laws that you need are already on the "books".........you just need to enforce them yourself. No need for a HOA............that you shell out how much a year????
I would never buy a home in a HOA. Period. I'd pay way more for the same home where there is no association. As if society doesn't have enough rules, people with their own agendas end up in positions of power and come up with fees and costs for anything and everything. But these fees and costs go well with some of the crazy rules imposed to meet those personal agendas. When I shop for homes I stay out of such areas.
The idea that non-current assessment accounts be turned over to THE COLLECTION AGENCIES and then be subject to enormous collection costs is blatantly wrong. This policy allows the delinquent homeowner, your neighbor and mine, to be subject to egregious charges and fees by the collection agency.
Everyone is aware that the HOA needs to collect fees from the unit owners. But in this case all of the extra fees the unit owner will be forced to pay to bring the account current will go to THE COLLECTION AGENCIES, not to the HOA. Thus there is hardly any benefit to this policy for the HOA itself, other than simply reducing the workload of HOA companies by allowing them to subcontract out work to someone else that the homeowners are currently paying them to do.
And if you think these extra fees are just a couple of extra bucks you are seriously mistaken. I have seen cases where these extra fees can make the amount due by the unit owner four and five times greater than the amount actually owed to the HOA.
Why do you think that these helpful collection agencies agree to do this work at no extra cost to the HOA? Because they know they can make a fortune off of these accounts while causing serious harm to people. I have seen many cases where collection agencies will foreclose on people's homes for non-payment of small amounts.
I recommend that the law explicitly state that in no case will a delinquent homeowner ever be charged more than ten percent more than they actually owe. For example, a homeowner nine months behind that owes $500 could only be charged $50 dollars by THE COLLECTION AGENCIES making their total $550. I would not be surprised to find out that under the current arrangement with THE COLLECTION AGENCIES a homeowner owing $500 would probably have to pay somewhere around $2000 to bring their account current. And where does all of that extra money go? Why, to the helpful collection agency of course. The HOA receives none of those excessive costs.
Not buy in a HOA? That is really tough to do in Nevada. Any newer developement has one of these HOA's set up and shoved down your throat at closing...HOA's are really a scam- you pay "protection" money to protect your home values from idiots who don't take care of their property. People, there are municipal laws already on the books that are supposed to do just that. Clark County deals with those situations al the time.
Values protected? So, when my house went down anyways where was the HOA protection? Oh, that money pays for common grounds upkeep? Let's give the upkeep of the common grounds to the city- we already have that maintenance set up in areas before somebody came up with the HOA scam.
Abuse and hidden agendas and people with nothing else to do but complain because your trash can was in front of your house 1/2 a day longer than it should have been, etc. People giving out petty violations on YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY is just crazy.
Lawgal...talk about tunnel vision! I just bought a short sale as my first home purchase. I was greeted with a letter ONE WEEK after I moved, in from Alessi and Koenig, stating that I owed aound 4k for my southern highlands association.
This is highway robbery! My dues are around 50/mth for that association and it has only been around since 2003. If not one bill was EVER paid the total would not have been 4k!!! That is stealing and I'm sure some people end up paying these bills. For me, the title company will pay but that doesn't change that fact that they have turned a 1k bill into 4k so they can milk profits from Las Vegas citezens.
They were like vultures, sending me letters one week after I moved in naming me as the registered owner, and stating I was scheduled for foreclosure. They turned what should have been a very happy experience into lots of fear and frustration. Welcome to Vegas, huh?
most HOAs are criminal and do NOTHING.
I'm sending off a letter right now to Congresswoman Titus, asking her if these constituents are "F--ked"! No sirree Bob, taking this to the top!
Anyone making comments here and honestly lives in Las Vegas knows that these HOA companies charge exorbitant amounts & do not use the funds to keep these properties up. I see them in disrepair all the time. Whether they are owned by a lazy homeowner or are in foreclosure.
"associations frequently have to shell out money to contractors to work on rundown properties, deal with stagnant and toxic swimming pools and to water lawns and vegetation..."
How many of you have seen the HOa take care of these items while to home sits vacant? I am in the business and I see the checks sent to the HOA companies after the foreclosure sells. They are getting paid and they are getting paid big. $5K for a home is a regular amount for a bank to pay an HOA demand. It's ridiculous. The fact that homeowners are actually defending these lawless, robbing entities means you have no idea how this system works or value what money you spend. HOA's are essentially a money sucking entity that does not give back the value that they charge to the community. It's quite obvious as most of ours have gone to shams when they could have been a strong asset to our community.
We all just submit to paying the bills over and over, month after month and do not hold any HOA's to a higher standard. They of all entities have totally dropped the ball. How many of you homeowners are going to wake up and feel violated by the HOA that hasn't risen up to take care of your community? Do you honestly think that some asset manager somewhere in some other state can sit and issue the $100 check each month on 1000 properties in just one city? Honestly people. The HOAs are getting paid all the monthly fees and buckets more at close of escrow. They are not hurting at all!!!
HOAs are a scam, but they are required by the city before the homes are built. I've been on HOA boards and there are three groups of people. The people who enjoy telling telling other people what to do and get off fining them for violations. The second group is people who have dead lawns, no landscaping, old cars dripping oil all over, and violations too numerous to mention. The final group are people who mow their lawns, keep their house maintained, but are too busy to bother with engaging the HOA. Unfortunately due to apathy people let the first group walk all over the others. If you don't like the direction your HOA is going then get involved!!! Run for the board and bring some common sense to the table!!! When you do you will discover what complete jerks some of your neighbors really are. I see people using the HOA to enact vengeance on others. It's just wrong and should never happen.
Yup, I'd much rather deal with a neighbors car not running or them not cutting their grass while on vacation than have to deal with a homeowners association anyday. I once changed a dead car battery on a property with a homeowners association and they wanted to know who I was visiting so that they could fine them as car repair was not allowed. I see that a few folks here like and defend those associations. I'll take that HOA money at the end of each month and do better things with it. Which is just about anything....
Okay firstly it was the greedy investors that brought on the housing bubble and the increase in price for properties in the first place only to get even richer when the bubble burst and allowed them to buy even more properties. They did it in California and then when they had sucked that market up they moved over here and were doing the same. If they did their homework on the property in the first place they would know the amount of HOA dues already accumalated.
So they should quit their bitching and deal with it. I would like to buy just my first home here in the valley and can't even afford that, let alone getting ready to purchase my 16th.
Here's a simple solution for investors (or any buyer). Before you go to the closing, get a letter from the H.O.A. stating the total amount owed to the HOA as of the closing date. Have the sellers representative sign a statement at the closing that such an amount will be held out of the proceeds to pay the HOA. Also while at it, make sure the HOA signs a statement that they will not hold you responsible for any fees due before you take title. One would think that this would be the way to assure clear title. Don't sign the documents without having CLEAR TITLE guaranteed.
Apparantly they are very sloppy at closings.
I don't live in a HOA, but I worked for a developer for 10 years and part of my job was handling disputes regarding rules and regulations. It's amazing what neighbors will fight about.
Det__Munch
The board decided to leave the gates open. I have been to arbitration more than once and I won all of them. It is too much trouble and the management companies know it. I moved and will never be part of an association again. I will have the county of city take care of any problems.
HOAS -suck!
My offer fell through because of HOA dues owed. The bank wanted the seller to sign a promissory note for monies owed. He refused.If the seller couldn't pay the monthly mortgage why would they think the seller would honor the promissory note.
Investors need to be educated in what entails in types of investments. My Realtor was diligent to make sure that I would not have to pay any HOA fees. These monies need to be collected to pay for at least the basics like utilities.
With that said my experience without going into details with Las Vegas HOA's have been less than desirable.
Let's put it bluntly - screw HOA's and their supporters! - both should move to Russia where playing "Big Comrade" is acceptable.
We already have laws that enforce what HOA's do and we already pay for them through taxes. Why should we pay Mafia HOA to do what our public servants will do more effectively.
This is America! People need to take America back and keep America the land of the free! Send a letter to your congressman and ask them to abolish HOA's!
Typical Americans, lazy, irrespondible, and don't take care of their property and obligations. If you don't like HOA's then don't live in one, you have a choice! No one is forcing you to buy a house, it's an opportunity not a "right".
What most of you are talking about is not issues with HOA's. Closing is an issue of lack of intelligent sales agents and escrow agents. I know one company that let a clouded title go through, hahaha...once again lazy Americans not doing their frappin' jobs. Compliance issues, once again lazy Americans (especially Las Vegan's) not READING their documents (directions) for the community. Don't complain if you signed the dotted line, should have read the directions, just like reading the directions to your stereo system, ipood (pun intended), or car!
To those who want the city to take care of it... guess what THEY DON'T WANT YOU! They don't want to have to take care of you people, because they can't handle the demand both at call centers, or with resources for repairs etc. If they did, you'd be paying extremely high state taxes; use your brains jeeeeez! Good luck getting gov. to act on everything, they're just like the military, they wouldn't know how to put their pants on in the morning if they didn't have someone order them to do it!
And above all, for those that think these associations are a scam and don't use the money to take care of the community...you're simply a moron, get an education from a real school UNLV isn't a real university they just got their acredidation back in the 80's pffffft. How does the common area get taken care of? How about Clubhouses? How about Streets? Insurance for these areas? Water for these areas? Electricity? Instead of running your mouth off go take a look at your HOA budget.
Stop wining and be responsible adults, man you Las Vegas people are just plain lazy idiots.
LOL to abolishment man. Yeah we can see how well calling the police for some idiot running his motorcycle at 3am will work! There already so very responsive, and they've just got the manpower to have this done.
Nothing in state law talks about mowing your lawn. Hell, with how lazy most of you Less Vegans are, the entire city would be overgrown and we'd all be living in filth! It's disgusting the lack of responsibility, and pride in your personal property you people have out here on the left coast!
Abolish HOA's wahooo, let the government run it into the ground just like they do with everything else. At least HOA's are your direct piers in these situation instead of some pompous golden parachute idiot on capital hill. Hey if I could trust everyone to take care of their property properly we wouldn't need HOA's unfortunatley 99% of people don't! They're lazy SoCal morons who want their RockStar lives without having to work for it! GO BACK TO SOCAL!
So much misinformation as well. Learn your technical terms and HOA organization before making stupid accusations like "these HOA companies charge soooo much money for collections". Most HOA companies don't do collections, they're outsourced to collections companies, second it's the Board that chooses these companies based upon their tenacity.
People who complain about HOA's are the ones who want it "their way" all the time yet live in the bliss of everyone elses hard work. Can't believe someone on here said they'd rather deal with a neighbor who lets their lawn go and leaves their car up on blocks out front than deal with an HOA. Yeah there go your household values, that not only effects your resale a$$hat, but your refi as well! Wow, are you just an idiot, or did your mommy drop you on your head too many times!
Last to patriot man above, Mr. "Land of the free"
Yup, "Land of the free, home of the stupid!" I completely agree, let freedom ring. So every moron can paint his house some god aweful color. I had to put up with a house that was orange, black and purple...what kind of freaky James Cameron "Nightmare before Xmas" garbage is that?! Thank God the HOA stepped in!
Some other idiot in my community put an ethonal race car in his driveway. Not only is this red neck hillbilly "madhouse" trailer trash got the complete look goin' on, he's exposed neighbors to a whole hell of a lot of liability...that car's fuel could take out half the block!
First of all, let me say thanks to all the people that are speaking out against investors and defending HOAs.
These people (investors) have destroyed our economy and are destroying our neighborhoods one house at a time. Banks are helping. It seems simple, the bank enters into an agreement with a homeowner, the homeowner doesNottinghamt meet that agreement the bank takes over the house and is responsible for that home and it's assesments. Either the bank or the new homeowner has to pay. I just so happens that investor/slumlord does not want pay, and has no stake in the community.
Associations should ban together to defiet these devils at their own game. This is the future of our city and way of life we are talking about.
The issue is not with the HOA, rather with the Collection agency fees. I bought a house a couple of weeks ago. The collection agency was paid 11.5K. What went to the HOA was 200$. The rest is all expenses to the collection agency. 400$ for demand letter.... Someone need to control this.
I'd like to make a few comments to those of you who are bashing investors (such as WizardOfoz and Avenger). I agree that there are those investors who buy properties with no regard for anyone but themselves. But, I think a blanket statement against all investors as greedy, slumlords is a way over the top. I'd be curious to know if you've ever invested in properties yourselves.
We've been buying properties in Las Vegas for quite some time now and dealing with the headaches of HOAs. We spend quite a big chunk of change on updating, rehabbing and putting the properties in excellent condition. And we then sell these properties to home-owners. We do care about the value of the properties we buy because EVERYONE benefits from maintaining a neighborhood. An investor who rents to tenants that turn around and destroy the property is doing a disservice to everyone in the community. The sins of "those" kind of investors should not be held against investors who are looking to create a win-win situation for everyone.
Our issue is not with paying overdue HOA fees. We'd gladly due that as part of our investment expense. Our issue is with astronomical legal fees tacked on by people who have no vested interest in the property to begin with. That is THE issue here.
That's where the greed lies in this particular instance. Not with investors...