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StumbleCaesars Palace plays hardball with dealers, asserts right to tips
Union says Harrah’s Entertainment’s proposed workplace rules prove the gaming giant ‘never intended to negotiate’
ASSOCIATED PRESS FILE
Supporters of a contract for Caesars Palace casino dealers rally outside the resort in September. Dealers, who voted to unionize in December 2007, and management have been unable to agree on a contract.
Monday, Jan. 18, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Sun Archives
- Caesars Palace dealers protest on Strip (9-17-2009)
- Wynn dealers persist in fight to topple tip-sharing policy (7-13-2009)
- Casino dealers bring tip-sharing case to federal court (7-10-2009)
- For Wynn dealers, deal slow to come (6-24-2008)
- Group opposing Wynn tip sharing plan to protest Culinary role (4-20-2008)
- Starbucks tips case gives hope to dealers (3-26-2008)
- No win-win for Wynn, former dealer (2-2-2008)
- Dealers sour on Caesars (11-19-2007)
- Under the radar, Caesars dealers push for union (10-11-2007)
Two years after casino dealers at Caesars Palace voted for union representation, they still don’t have a labor contract and relations with management have gone from bad to worse.
Caesars Palace executives have cemented their authority as the side holding most of the cards, proposing a list of new workplace rules and, in a shot heard throughout the Nevada gaming industry, asserting a right to dip into dealers’ tips.
Both sides filed complaints with the National Labor Relations Board in late December, alleging the other had failed to bargain properly. Like a go-between for a dysfunctional couple, an examiner with the NLRB has been trying to get the two sides to agree on dates for meetings.
Harrah’s Entertainment, which owns Caesars, contends that the union is unreasonably blocking its proposals. The company says its proposed changes are fair because they will bring dealers in line with other Harrah’s employees, union and nonunion.
What that means is the company isn’t offering dealers added benefits and is removing others, such as corporate 401(k) matches and vacation days for the longest-serving employees, notes the union representing the dealers, the Transport Workers Union Local 721.
“They never intended to negotiate,” Transport Workers Union Gaming Director Joe Carbon says.
“They never considered our very few proposals. They want to shove this down dealers’ throats as punishment for joining a union. And they’re getting away with it.”
Labor experts who aren’t involved in the fight say Harrah’s may succeed in imposing its will on the dealers. Unions have little power to pressure companies into signing a first contract because federal law doesn’t require employers to reach an agreement — only that they negotiate. Without the threat of strikes, which have become less likely in the sorry economy, employers can refuse to sign off on proposals they don’t like while adopting those they do, says Jeffrey Waddoups, a UNLV professor in labor management economics.
The dealers’ union contends Harrah’s violated labor law by refusing to bargain in good faith, but the difficulty in proving such an allegation is the very reason many unions are never able to obtain a labor contract, Waddoups says.
Caesars dealers refused to sign a proposed contract the company presented in August because it contained provisions giving management more control over their jobs — the kind of control afforded to most employers with nonunion employees.
One provision, since removed by management, would have required employees to deal cards for 80 minutes at a time with a 20-minute break, an increase from the industry standard of 60 minutes followed by a 20-minute break. This move, which Harrah’s has implemented in some casinos outside Las Vegas, allows casinos to operate with fewer dealers.
Other language in the proposed contract would have allowed Caesars to fire or discipline dealers for any aspect of the job, including interactions with customers or compliance with gaming policies and procedures.
By comparison, Culinary Union contracts covering tens of thousands of Las Vegas casino workers require that employers have “just cause” to fire workers. These contracts also contain a grievance and arbitration procedure enabling workers to defend their actions with the union’s help.
Caesars’ proposed contract stated that dealers aren’t subject to grievance and arbitration procedures. Instead, it says if the dealers don’t do their jobs or break the rules, they would be subject to discipline or termination at the “complete discretion” of Caesars Palace.
Most distressing for dealers was a statement in a management memo about Caesars’ right to divvy up dealers’ tips with other groups of employees if a “competitive need” arose.
The dealers figure “competitive need” translates into “cost-effective way to supplement employees’ earnings.”
Tips are a very sensitive topic on the Strip because they can account for a majority of front-line workers’ earnings.
After Steve Wynn moved to give a fraction of his dealers’ tips to their supervisors, dealers at Wynn Las Vegas filed a lawsuit and a complaint with the Nevada labor commissioner. The commissioner is expected to rule this year on whether Wynn broke a state law that forbids employers from taking “all or part of any tips” given to employees.
Wynn dealers say the policy reduced their earnings, before the recession, by more than 10 percent. Dealers, who earn little more than minimum wage, receive as much as 90 percent of their income from tips — earnings that have fallen in the worsening economy.
As of now, Caesars doesn’t intend to split dealer tips with other workers, says Marybel Batjer, Harrah’s vice president of public policy and communications.
The statement was intended to inform dealers of authority the company believes it has always maintained to distribute worker tips as it sees fit, she says. Some union workers in other departments across the company’s casinos, such as banquet workers, have union contracts that allow employers to split worker tips with management, she adds.
After Wynn initiated his controversial tip-sharing policy in 2006, executives with Strip competitors MGM Mirage and Harrah’s Entertainment assured dealers that they had no plans to give other workers a cut of the dealers’ tips. Knowing that dealers organized under a union at Wynn because of the tip scheme, executives at competing casinos hoped to quiet calls for unionization among their dealers.
Caesars’ statement on tips could help Harrah’s by chilling further union organizing efforts by dealers at other company-owned casinos, Waddoups says.
“The company has a big incentive not to reward anyone for unionizing,” he says. “If Caesars dealers end up getting a better deal, dealers would start to organize all over the place.”
And though giving employees a worse deal than they had before they unionized is an unusual outcome, the poor economy provides the company with a reason to do so.
Indeed, while the dealers say they unionized because they were seeking job security, Batjer counters: “Does anyone have job security these days?”
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The persons who seem to have the "most" job security IN ANY ECONOMY are attorneys, or consultants, and the corporate executives and officers who frequently call or email them to make sure everything meets the legality test, if not the ethical or moral tests.
Most employees have to grind it out for decades to retire, the glass ceiling class is closed shop and makes enough in 7-10 years in close-ranked loyalty to and for each other to retire and leave Nevada, except the personal tax code is favorable in Nevada.
Healthcare, an ISSUE in Nevada?
Become a doorman and stand on concrete or marble for eight hours a day for 20 years, or carry-push luggage for 20 years, or suck smoke from valued players in baccarrat for 20 years, where at least you do get to sit, with a lot of stress involving big money. Compare that to sitting behind a desk at a CRT screen reading intercompany email or attending meetings.
Upper management should exist to support those who do the front line work in hospitality, period. SUPPORT. Vegas has become embedded with strong arm, east coast corporate types who expect long time Nevadans to burn through shoe leather to make their bosses richer, even as they are expendable employee numbers with no genuine positive workplace culture or loyalty.
Confrontation between corporate and labor is not good for the industry, stressful to everyone involved, and shows a clear lack of values-driven leadership in the bundled Nevada gaming industry today. Corporate is supposed to support labor, and represent stakeholders-owners to achieve outcomes that benefit everyone fairly.
It would be even more duress for labor if a Republican were STILL in power.
Nevada gaming companies, just wait until some big invisible entity like the California teacher's pension fund owns a big chunk of your company, then good luck dealing with the honcho boss, because you won't be able to find the boss's boss, which is kind of how things are going already now in some places. The real boss is in fact just a disinterested investor(s), who doesn't care about anything but the financials.
oh the rich and lazy crowd will be out to defend harrah's. anyone out there who cares about another human being please boycott harrahs and steve wynn's places. guess ceo's want cut of tips, scumbags who've ruined your town want more, and there will be plenty of idiotic posts to support these as-ho---.
This is another terrible situation created by gaming operators who are not really operators, only money managers. There are hardly any operators left. In the days of the Mirage and MGM openings were pretty much the last days of an actual casino operator at the helm. Wall Street and similar people have no clue how to operate, only demotivate and squeeze every scent out of everything. Stay away from tips, all tips in every area. I do not believe in Unions but in this situation the dealers were forced to do something to get some representation as the employers actions required action by the employees.
Wall Street,which manages and owns LV BLVD, lives by the line: "Business is about F-ing the other guy". This is their street now (not the CP dealers), and they can do what they want with the tips. I am not saying I agree, I am just stating the facts.
The dealers have zero chance of winning this one, so stop whining and protesting, or find a real job.
The only job security seems to be with those working FOR the unions. Workers, Union or non-union have no job security. I lost my long term non-union job, so did many other people I know. Many of my friends with Union jobs have also been let go. Personally, I think tips belong to the people who receive them. I understand the need for a "tip-out" percentage to go to cooks, dishwashers, etc. But tips shouldn't be shared with the already higher paid management.
it a bad time for the union. i know i am in the union. union have to give in or they will loose out
Ms. Batjer, VP of Communications for Harrah's, asked "Does anyone have job security these days" was a terrible comment to make. Bill Harrah would be shocked! Was this comment meant to show no need for a union, or is she feeling the pressure of the times in her job performance? Nice, secure feeling comment...wrong!
Crybaby Dealer/Dealers Keep walking the Strip and Harrah's Entertainment's will bring in at their cost DEALERS from Mississippi and other places like that don' give them any problem..... Seen this this happen about 50 time in my gaming live all over the Country and out of the Country..... Keep walking Unions do no good anymore , thy once where needed but all they what know is your dues.
Remember it is going to rain for the rest of the week ,they say... good luck on your fight sit down and say we don't want the union if you just give us this.
I say give ALL YOUR TIPS to casino Management.
It's only fair. They pay you $3.10 hour.
Why do you complain?
Boomer, Switwserland
For sale: Deluxe double-wide. Payments $3.10 hour
Comment removed by moderator. Same comment posted on multiple stories.
The corporations and their flunkies have bamboozled the workers in this country into voting against their own economic interests. ANytime you vote Republican, remember you are NOT voting against gays and minorities but against your own interests as a worker!
I am boycotting all Harrahs properties until they are good to their employees and to CUSTOMERS. I think everyone should also.
They are poorly managed company with big dreams of world domination on the cheap and using dime of others. They are like the greedy financial bankers of wall street. Thank Lord, Harrhs don't hold our bank money and savings as hostage like the criminals of the wall street and banks. Or don't they?
Everyone should also realize that the same kind of people run the wallstreet. Infact same greedy were imported from the wallstreet and business schools to run the casinos.
I feel sorry for the Harrahs workers and we can do something about it. And it is on the open so there behavior can be observed.
However more scared of these same type of criminals running the banks and wallstreets. because really nothing is protecting the money there.
2008 and 2009 have proven that money in the banks is being used as collateral for these criminals to make huge gambling bets turning the investment into gambling between themselves. The money is then being siphoned off slowly and public doesn't know about it because the SEC is in the bed with these criminals. These same criminals cry foul when they feel they are not going to get few percentage of 150 BILLION dollar bonus.
Smae people running the Harrahs. Boycott everything with C on the name
SUCH A SHAME!!! Caesars Palace used to be such a great place to work back in the day, for everybody. Then Harrahs came in and destroyed it. Harrahs, like MGM/Mirage, is a massive corporation with nothing but pencil-head suits running a business that they know nothing about. I sure do miss the days when actual people owned and ran hotel/casinos.. Employees got treated better, customers got treated better, everyone made mone...These huge companies taking over and owning 3/4 of the strip has been nothing but bad for everyone all around.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment wasn't on topic.
HAHA. Just because you have a union doesn't mean the company needs to give you a contract.
Want to pressure them? All you can do is walk off the job. Of course then the company will replace you out of the 100,000 or so out of work dealers. If a few of you get pissey they will fire you because you are still an at-will employee right now, union or no union.
Unions are on the way out. I can see how they are necessary for the average uneducated blue collar slob to pull down a decent wage an all, given their lack of skills. However, unions are always asking caviar and champagne prices for McDonalds fare. That's not going to happen anymore.
Attention All TOURISTS planning a trip to LV. AVOID and I mean completely stay away from all properties owned an operated by Harrahs. This company is part of the reason why LV has lost its sparkle. Send the mgt of this company a message and keep far far away from any of their properties.
The tip sharing scam is the worst thing that could ever happen to our city Mr. idiot Wynn is to blame for starting this completely unreasonable and greedy trend which relives the casino from having to increase salaries to management at the cost of the dealers. As a player I will NOT tip anyone who is required to share their tips with the shift manager. In fact I will make sure that I arrange some way to tip those dealers outside of their workplace in secret just to screw over management. Also as soon as I have any kind of winnings, I will leave immediately with them and NOT continue to gamble any of it back to ANY property who screws their help in this way!
Comment removed by moderator. Contained offensive language.
What did the dealers think was going to happen when they filed for a union? Harrah's would role up and agree to their demands?
No, of course not. The dealers demands are outrageous, particularly during this economic times, so they're getting what they deserve.
They should all be fired and replaced by people who REALLY want a job!
Let's be perfectly clear about unions. They were good 15+ years ago . Look what happened to the car industry ,people getting 90% wages not working, Teachers in NYC have one of the strongest unions in the nation with great salaries , benefits, SECURITY( after tenure) and they are always looking for more money. They always claim they have huge class sizes . Even if they had 1 student per teacher they wouldn be complaining. And last our proposed Health Plan which will be controlled by the Government. Who is going to pay for this with higher premiums and less coverage? I will let u think about that one . I'm no fan of Harrahs and the people have leverage by not going there!!
Say Dave202,
What are these "outrageous demands"?
Seems to me there are several issues at hand here:
1. Dealers don't like change and want to maintin security over their jobs, which doesn't force them to adhere to the service standards of Harrah's if they don't agree to them
2. Harrah's wants to make sure it's not taken over by this group in running it's business as they have some of the best service standards in the industryand have to make sure they can maintain them.
3. The tip sharing seems petty, it seems to me like Harrah's is negotionating this as a want.
4. 80 minutes between breaks seems reasonable, but I would think the industry standard might win out here. Maybe if the standing area was more comfortable (padding) and less hazardous (better venehaltion) it might be possible.
5. Paid time off. I think they should be under the same policy as everyone else in the company.
I propose to do what makes sense, give Harrah's the control over service standards and ability to discipline people who don't adhere to their policies and have Harrah's leave the tip control alone. If nothing else dealers will protect their tips like a their children, as that's what feeds their children.
The break policy change means that an employee would work an extra 40 minutes a shift, from 360 minutes to 400. For those math inclined a dealer gets 2 hours off of a shift in todays world, and after the change they would get off an hour and 20 minutes, by no means slave labor. The cost savings to Harrah's would be negligible as they make minimum wages plus insurance, and the dealers would actually make more money havig less dealers; there would just be 5% less of them. If it were me I'd let the dealers decide.
In any case, I believe both sides have a winning arguement.
local and tourist should boycott HARRAH and parents company
Perry161492:
Boycott HARRAHS? Why? You really think the average gambler cares about tip sharing? You really think Harrahs is screwed if the dealers walk away? You really think the Whale is not going to go to Ceasers to play his annual $5m in bets because "Suzy the dealer" has left for The Nugget? Get over it, and get back to work!!
Dont advise us on how to spend our money. If we the public decide to go to Ceasers and play games we are mathematically going to lose, which you are dealing, that is our decision.
If you dont like the LV Casino ownership structure and pay plans, you should boycott the city councel, who let 4 companies run 99% of the strip. It is what it is as they say.
Everyone needs to deal with reality, Harrahs has a huge debt service due to the privatization, their largest cash expenses are interest and salaries, interest aint going anywhere for a while, salary concessions are required to make debt payments, or the company liquates, and then the dealers will be flippin burgers, or serving lattes at Starbucks( and those tip jars are likely less than the cut Harrahs is offering).
BushDepression and Seriously are right about corporations getting people to vote against their own interests and running places like Ceasars into the ground. Corporations are the ones who created this messed up economy, not workers desiring decent pay and conditions. Decently paid workers helped create 20th century prosperity, and poorly paid workers will help create 21st century destitution.
Not only is taking of worker's tips highly unethical, it is illegal according to NRS 608.160.
If Harrah's needs salary concessions to service their ridiculously large debt, let those concessions start with the executives at the top who decided to take on that debt.
To the idiot that thinks 80 on and 20 off is no bid deal...Casinos opened with an 60 on 20 off schedule for dealers. Why do you think that came to be? It has been studied and determined that the human brains ability to concentrate begins to wane after 60 minutes. Working that extra 20 minutes will lead to more mistakes and stress, which will cost the casino much more than the few dollars it saves by exploiting employees.
Kenodave :
I say let the greedy casino corporation lose their butts. They make so much money at the tables and machines, why do they need to screw with the dealers tip money? Also let their greed work against themselves by overworking the dealers and losing even more! These idiots need a hard lesson at monetary losses to see how they have destroyed gambling in Las Vegas!
told ya the union bashers would be posting-oh they were great years ago comments, bunch of custodians licking their masters toilets.
judging by that picture,i highly doubt there is an actual dealer amongst them!
peace out
EMPLOYEE FREE CHOICE ACT NEEDS TO BE PASSED NOW. This act will force employers to negotiate and reanch an agreement or pay big penalties.
It's a complete rip off that dealers share tips. The person that truely gets ripped off is the tip giver. I know that when I tip a dealer I am tipping that person for their personal service. I am not tipping the casino or the other dealers. For the casino to take that tip and give it to someone else is against the intent of the tip. What's next? Will the casino require us to tip so they can suppliment the income of the guy that cleans the pool?
This dispute over sharing tips is just a fancy way of saying that business is down and employee hours and pay are being cut. At the big box store where I work, I can't believe how disorganized things have become because of slower sales. I used to spend all of my time keeping the sales floor neat and helping customers. My job title is still the same, but now I spend half my time stocking shelves and doing the work that used to be done by the overnight crew. And incidentally, I don't believe that attorneys have it made. Didn't you see the story about the law student who was denied admission to the bar because of his student loan debt?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/busine...
Bill Harrah would be horrified if he was alive and could see the unions taking over his casino's. I worked for Harrah's Reno after Bill Harrah died until after Holiday Inn bought it. I remember the visits from the Holiday Inn union "Bosses" from New Jersey. The reason Bill Harrah never opened a casino in Las Vegas was because he didn't want the unions. I worked in personnel and we kept our employee information computer runs chained to the floor during the day and they were escorted by guards to the big vault in the casino over night. That's how afraid Harrah's management was at the time about union activity at it's Reno and South Shore properties. I loved working for Harrah's in those days-before the Holiday Inn takeover. Harrah's was very good to their employees, we were one family, some of us worked both properties. The stories of Bill Harrah walking his casinos and talking with his employees are legend in Northern Nevada. My father-in-law, a manager at Commercial Hardware in Reno, knew Bill Harrah personally and liked him very much. Bill Harrah died before I started to work for Harrah's but I never heard one bad word about how he treated his employees or how he ran his casinos. How times have changed!
To the people bad mouthing Harrah's, did you know that the dealers at Ceasars Palace make over $70,000 per year which is among the highest in Las Vegas? In an 8 hour shift they work a total of 6 hours!! (1 hour dealing and a 20 minute break every hour) They have unlimited food and they receive 10 hours of Paid Time Off every 2 weeks which they had the luxury of using any time they want. Most of the dealers would not even work the 40 hours and would take the PTO guaranteeing them the full pay when they were not even there. And they were NOT HAPPY!!! There was never any talk of changing any policies until they voted in the union. They only brought this upon themselves and nobody should feel the least bit sorry for these dealers who make over $70K per year.
Las Vegas casino's have a monopoly, which is never good for the customer. People have many place to gamble now days. There are close to 500 Indian casino's in the USA.
Let's see.... gee how many dealers quit Wynn after the "controversial" tip policy? Answer: none. Two were fired.... but no one has quit. Why? simple they still make more money than any menial labor job. They still make more than dealers at other properties. They want the benifit of working in the best property and the hell with the investment and in managements decisions. Harrah's is playing the trump card and making employees aware that unions don't necessarily mean better anything, from job security to pay to benifits. This economy sucks and everyone is taking a hit. Unions aren't special, Harrahs isn't asking for anything special, they aren't deferring some extra burden on employees. Look to Detroit to see the future of unions.
TIP SHARING IS WRONG PERIOD! Wynn is not only forcing it on his dealers, but also making his cocktail waitresses share their tips with their managers which was the cause of the major fall out of Wynn's long time food and beverage manger who was utterly stunned when He told her to take a percentage of their tips. She was fired with malice, and Wynn charged she was 'losing it" and he ruined her reputation. These are the creeps who manage Las Vegas these days.
I like Harrah's they have always treated me right. When I play I always tip even when their bad dealers, because I know they aren't making it on minimum WAGE.
So what environprotector... times change. You can cry foul all you want, it won't change the fact that there is a new paradigm. Wynn fired the manager because she/he no longer supported managements decisions, that's how things work. I support decisions I don't necessarily agree with, or would not enforce if I owned the business. I would fully expect to be fired if I didn't. Duh. You don't have a vote in how things are done, it's not a democracy, I am sure the investors, banks, and stockholders aren't interested in what you think is "fair"
Surprising that the Harvard-grad CFOs who examine Harrah's accounting ledger came up with such a PR nightmare of a policy - cut-in to dealers' tips. These guys know dozens of other ways to take from the poor and give to the rich, and how to make it all sound benevolent.
its lousy what the bush people did to the economy and the bush sycophants come out of the woodwork complaining how the dealers are lucky to have a job and getting $4 an hour and how lousy the unions are. how pathetic can you get?
I am boycotting ALL casinos who do not treat their employees with respect and provide decent benefits. I'd not seek the job of a dealer due to the problems they encounter every day with players in casinos.
Taking the tips from those who have earned them is sad!
Right on, dipstick.
heyspanky321 :
You fail to differentiate between business decisions and wrong and right. My charter is to openly protest what these corporate executives are doing to the industry as a whole specifically here in Las Vegas. Most players (except most too young to remember) have a keen sense of when they are being screwed over by those who run the game. More important, is that they see how management treats the employees which they have a very personal connection to in this specialized industry. You as a corporate person that you sound like, must be able to understand what works and what is potentially harmful to business. It is your responsibility as a middle or upper management figure to point out where mistakes are being made by the executives from a marketing and customer relationship standpoint. If you fail to do this, then you are simply an empty suit collecting a paycheck. Remember this is gambling we are talking about, not wholesale,or retail, or banking , or insurance industries where that type of corporate programming is practiced.
They can always relocate to mississippi or new jersey or macua and see how that goes for them... The reason they make such a low wage is that anybody that knows they make bank on tokes alone..Did these dealers ever think that what is taken from them and if it is on paper,, that they might write that off on taxes... Maybe they should not worry about unionizing and talk with management with some of the dealers they choose,, that would represent them as employees and not union members... Unions only want to get their dues from you and pay themselves big salaries while doing what.. Negotiate a contract,, that you could be terminated from for whatever rule that they want to set for you to break... This is a right to work state and if you dont take advantage of that right someone else will...If you show up everyday and do your job then you should have no worries about a contract with the union....
Unions have no value in America anymore, and have done more to hurt America, then they ever did to help.
I fully support Harrahs & Wynn's, unions are for the lazy and inefficient. Unions have killed American innovation,and cost jobs. Unions have never in history created jobs, employers do.
Hey Dealers--Don't forget about the Union Dues that will be automatically deducted from your paychecks! These dues aren't cheap. Weigh all the costs when deciding if you want to unionize. I'm not necessarily for tip-sharing..but it may actually be cheaper than your union dues. Also, if your making $70K a year..even if you lose 10-20%..it is still a good living and it's more than Unemployment pays!
Last week we were all championing Harrah's for its decree of no resort fees. Now we see where the softspot is. Spread the dealer's tips around instead. Survival economics. Better a tip-share than a furlough every 5 days.
Teamsters 721...Are they the same local who defended and promoted ILLEGAL aliens over at Republic Services..makes you wonder what their real agenda is???Where is the Culanary Union?
I agreed with Kenodave . As a dealer it is hard to be on your feet and knees for 60 minutes. I work at fourqueens and the dealers have to do 80 minutes before we can get a 20 minutes break. It's suck!!!! The management overthere run by incompetents and idiots. I feel a bankruptcy coming for TLC corp. They're doing everything to piss off the older employees who has 4 weeks vacation just so they can quit. Now all the new hires are only part time. Forget about insurance and benefits since your family dont really need them. The more money they save , the bigger bonus these managers get. Screw the little people who cares.
I think the dealers should have done more research before agreeing to organize. They should have looked around observed the reactions of management when employees tried to organize and form unions. Very very rarely is it a cakewalk.
Harrah's has decided to make it difficult and now the dealers are upset? Perhaps they should go and talk to the people who convinced them to take this step.
Now the dealers have to decide:
1 - Do they have the stomach for the fight
2 - Are they okay with the fact that most than likely it will be others benefitting from their sacrifices and hardship
part-time human beings weighing the disadvantages of unions are losing the crux of the conversation; why do dealers, or any body else for that matter, have to give MANAGEMENT a share of their tips???? the suits have tightened the machines, increased the odds in their favor, and done what they can to make a profit. now they want to squeeze more money from the workers!!
dipstick :
I usually never agree with anything you post, however I am with you on your statement above me here 100%
Those who champion Corporate greed over basic employee rights and take an anti-union stance
because "they only benefit the weak workers" are either greedy corporate types or fools.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment contained name calling.
Denver21 - Great points, the dealers at Caesar's are some of the highest tip earners in town. They should be happy with what they have.
Unions have destroyed the auto industry and the airline industry is crippled by them. They are rapidly decaying the Las Vegas market.
1 - Ever wonder why there are unattractive, old grandma cocktail waitresses at Caesar's, Ballys, Flamingo, or anywhere downtown? Or how about the big, fat ones? Thank the unions. The casinos can't let them go and hire younger, more attractive girls that would make the business more money because of unions and these women's unwillingness to call it quits. The answer is to implode and build new.
2 - Ever wonder why it takes forever for a bellman or room service to come to your room at one of these old places in Vegas after you've called for service? Again, you can thank the union. 60 year olds working in jobs that are more suited for 20-30 year olds, but because of union protection, they are still working at 1/2 the efficiency.....and 1/2 the customer service by the way. The result? Unhappy customers who move on to other joints.
3 - Ever had consistently bad service at one of the restaurants on the Strip? Chances are because it's a Union shop. Because of the "just cause" rule, these people know how to work the system and aren't afraid of losing their job over a little bad customer service.
Unions need to go.
S711
Sinatra711, excellent points!! I hear people complain all the time of how the dealers don't smile or care if they lose. Harrahs has one of the best service committment programs in the industry for their employees. They have "buzz sessions" to prepare their employees for their shift so that they are prepared to give each customer great service. When Wynn started their tip sharing policy, Harrahs came out with a statement telling their tipped employees that they do not agree with this policy. When Caesars wanted to vote for a union, Harrahs said if you vote for a union everything will be fair game!! The dealers also wanted to get rid of these "buzz sessions" so that they would not be responsible for being rude to customers. Unions have ruined the service standards that our tourist receives when coming to our town to visit....
sinatra; you made the REAL one roll over in his grave w/ your remarks. unions arent going away soon and if it was up to management there wouldnt be any. they'd be using 9 year olds as workers just like the good old days before any labor laws.
If they buy and install PokerTek dealerless tables the problem will end, expenses will drop and profits will rise at all harrah's properties.
I will gamble at places where mgmt. takes a cut of tips.
CORRECTION - I will NOT gamble at place where mgmt. takes a cut of tips.
Marybel Batjer,Jan Jones and Loveman the perfect storm to ruin any company.
what a mess las vegas has become!
When I tip someone for doing a service, I want that money to go to the person standing in front of me who actually did the work!! NOT to some suit upstairs!!!
What percentage is appropiate? Year 1 : 4% , Year 2 : 8% , Year 3 16% , Year 4 32% etc..
As many seasoned dealers face retirement in the next 5 to 10 years , ask yourself; Where is the Love?
With 46 States with lottery, close to 500 Indian casino's, unlimited online gambling, where do you think Las Vegas will be in 5 years?
Yes 'by ye' and 'whitedove', you are the only posters to stay on point.
This is not about unions, their faults, their benefits etc.
It is about apportioning money that THE CUSTOMER (who is supposed to be always right) is giving to a particular individual (at a craps table - individuals).
I think this will become a nightmare to Harrah's if the news goes national.
Doesn't matter if you're a rightie or a leftie.
For all of you who state that Caesars dealers are still making a good living. Let's suppose those dealers were making $70,000 per year. Now Harrahs wants to take 10% to distribute as they see fit. The dealers are now making only $63,000 per year. Is that not tantamount to putting a tax on those that do well? How do the rich react when a tax is proposed on their incomes? They do everything humanly possible to hide their income. You are lecturing dealers who want to do what every business owner and wealthy person does in circumstances similar to this in that they want to protect what they have earned.
This has taken effect because of mismanagement in the first place. These greedy corporations decide to build opulent palaces to outdo the next guy, and then can pay down their debt - even with outrageously-priced clubs and restaurants. The dealers provide the service and they are the ones who should be tipped, not the suits who look down their noses at the customers.
70,ooo A year at min. wage you must be HI!Dealing is not an easy job but A good dealer can make it look easy!
A person who has never dealt before can't imagine how much grief they put up with ,with drunks people who donkey off all there money,they blame it on the dealer!It's time for us locals to have A voice too boycott all Harrahs property's.If we made our voice heard maybe some things will change,back befor the corpoations!
Now to even get A dealer job they want you young enough to still live with family or A green card,so they can push you around and they do!
Glad to see companies sticking up to unions. They ruined the steel industry and they ruined the car industry, the fire fighter union is helping backrupt our county. The time for unions has passed and so has the time for un-educated people making $100k dealing cards and serving cocktails. They should be happy they still have a job and take what they get.
The guys standing behind the dealers in "the suits" make $10,000 less per year in most of the bigger casinos don't forget. They do not make the policies they just enforce them. If it were not for "The suits" these dealers would be pissing all over the players who didn't tip because they only care about themselves and to hell with the company. Why do you think they voted in the Union? They want to get away with this and with a Union and their "just cause" they can. This town is done if the union takes control. Just like Sinatra711 said, the next time your in a casino and you have to wait a long time to get a drink, 99.9% chance it is a union house. And if you complain, they will probably spit in your drink, trust me I've seen this happen. And another thing, "the suits" have no control over this because of the union!!!
It would seem like the dealers would get smart and see that the unions only want to collect their union dues. Look at the auto business. vote the union out and get back in the real world
If the managers want part of the dealers tips, they should take a dealer's job. I am a union worker and I can tell you that it is frustrating that the union cannot do more for us as we are losing money and benefits along with everyone else in this economy. However, we have our jobs and many benefits because of the unions.
I will not play at the Wynn or Harrahs or any casino that is not union.
Management should not get involved in line employee's tip equation BUT...any dealer (or any other employee for that matter) who thinks a union will help them is delusional. Tips go down with Unions because employees are "protected" right, wrong, or indifferent. Unions thrive on "issues" and they turn the attention of an employee's focus inward instead, of outward to the customer. Who needs protection? Only the poor performers. Productivity is "not the Union's problem" - or rather productivity is the Unions problem because the less efficient the employee the more you need - the more members the more dues etc. Management can be good or bad but Unions are now irrelevant with civil laws protecting the integrity of the worker.
Aprilgirl12, I am one of those managers and I can assure you there is not many Supervisors in these casinos that is in agreement with the dealers sharing their tips with them. Every Supervisor in these Casinos was once a dealer before and knows how hard they work for the tips and what they go through.
FIRST OF ALL THERE HAS TO BE PEOPLE TO DEAL TOOOOOO. TAKE A WALK ON THE STRIP THERE'S NO PEOPLE. DEALERS WENT FROM A 40 HOUR WORK WEEK TO HALF OF THAT. MOST STILL HAVE THEIR JOBS THANKS TO THE CASINO, BUT SOME HAVE BEEN LAID OFF. WALK INTO ONE OF THE BIG STRIP CASINO'S AND CHECK OUT HOW EMPTY THEY ARE.
as a former union rep with the steel workers in ohio i can tell you that unions don't care what happens to members as long as they get their dues. it is a shame that management is taking a share of tips. strikes and boycots don't help, money lost by both sides can never be made back. shared gain and shared loss should be foremost for any bussiness however it is not going to be that way as long as lines of seperation are drawn to seperate workers and bosses. everyone should have the proffitability of the company in mind to be sure they all have a job to go to.it is no fun to go to the bank and have your pay check bounce, as i have experienced.
This is a prime example mafioso management,these dealers need to join the firefighters union. Then Caesers can keep the tips and just pay them 200k a year.
JOINING A UNION IS NOT THE ANSWER. WORKERS SHOULD THINK ABOUT BUYING OUT A CASINO AND RUN IT THEMSELVES. CAN YOU IMAGINE THE LOOK ON THE BILLIONAIRES FACES IF THAT EVER HAPPENS.
What will the IRS have to say about that??? The IRS already taxes those dealers on what the said average of those tips will be per hour on these people's paychecks. Does that mean Harrah's/Union get to redeal with the IRS on taxing the dealers??? Will these tips be taxed on a corporate level???? I would like to see Wynn/Harrah taxed for taking these tips that were suppose to be for the people that sweated hard to have earned them.
Right = Hardworking service industry individual who cares about the company and the customer and extends his or her self to the utmost for the best possible experience for the customer and is rewarded financially by their employer and happy customer for that hard work.
Wrong = Greedy Corporate tightwad company who does not care about their employees well being and does not support the customer's experience and show's no respect for the customer's desire to reward the hardworking service industry individual.
The "right" paragraph is the former Las Vegas
The "wrong" paragraph is the Las Vegas at present.
Would you want to come here?
Also:
Why dont the actual dealers walk the protest lines (like the pilots do), instead the union hires the tunnel homeless and gives them red shirts and signs, totally gutless by the dealers I think
Though I do enjoy staying at Harrah's properties in Vegas and they do give good comps after reading this I will have to reconsider where I stay until this is resolved. The Management is being completely unfair if this story is factual.
It is like this.Unions are good and bad.What the problem is that Harrahs controlled Managment has been forced by the top execs to crunch down on the dealers and all other employees it can.They try to maximize job efficiancy through micro managment which means if it can be weighed and measure it will.Micro Managment has an overall effect on employee attitude because you cannot turn around without being graded on the way you do it.
It is obvious that Ceasars Managment has brought the threat of the Unionization of dealers on themselves by treating their employees unfairly and have pushed them to their limit with their micro managment techniques to far.
It seems as though Ceasars attitude is if the employee doesnt like something their is 100,000 more waiting for their job.
This is what happens when unemployment is high and the economy is rough.I bet you that 6 years ago when the times were good they had a different outlook and treated the employees much better.
Does Coorperate America care Not!!! Managment tightens up on the employee due to their poor managment from the get go.This is nothing but a big snowball that will never quit growng until the union wins or the Managment starts working towards gaining employee confidence and treting thier employees fair They do this and then the Union threat dissappears.
But numbers crunchers rarely have a good since in the effects they create
Rodtig,
This is something I never understood about Station Casinos. They are extremely anti-union and yet their wage and benefits package is inferior to that of the competition. At least Adelson, in his fight against the unions, did better on his offerings to the employees.
to the clueless: the american auto industry went in the toilet because they sold cars that had defective transmissions that popped out of gear into reverse, cruise control systems that caught fire burning the vehicle, the garage it was in and the house it was attached to, defective tires that caused SUV's to lose control,engines with poor head gaskets and so on and so forth.the management of these american companies knew and were aware of these defects and did everything they could to NOT be liable and do the right thing by repairing the problems. do not THINK that the american unions had any thing to do with these defects and like all americans just want to lead a decent life for themselves and their families. people who blame unions for this nations ills do not have a clue what they are talking about.
When I tip an individual that tends me, depending on the amount is based on efficiency, hard working effort, and friendliness...and I always personally hand the tip to the wait staff individual while complementing the person and the entire staff along with pointing out the work environment situation they had to endure.
I always ask the table boss at the craps table on their tokes policy and how the tokes are distributed among the staff in general...whether it's per table of staff assigned in a 24 hr shift or combined to all tables, etc. before leaving a tip for a group of staff members.....Any establishment or department that will take on a revenue sharing method of tipping similar to Wynn's tip policy can forget about me leaving any tip for the establishment to control and distribute to their discretion, I will go out of my way to personally tip the individual that directly provided me the service, and will provide my contact info if they wish to send a self addressed stamped envelope or however they would collect a personal tip that doesn't break their company rules.
As I worked and supervised in plenty of kitchens and hotels in the past, I see situations that most people can't see on what the staff has to deal with whether it's shorthanded personnel, erratic customers, equipment breakdowns, inefficient co workers, animosity work environment etc. and trust me I worked every situation there is under the service industry of private businesses to corporate businesses to federal contracting.
Rarely when I do not tip is where I get tended by a mediocre staff member thats way too unefficient and inconsiderate while having the tools and personnel staff to handle the service.
Regardless of union or non union affiliation, like environprotector has mentioned reference to today's hotel/casino's general customer service versus the industry standard of the past... and the industry standard of the past BY FAR was second to none.
Don't get me wrong, most establishments today are sufficient when it comes to customer service for the general public, it's just that the days of the past was when most establishments had excellent service to every person that walked under their roof....The more luxurious resorts will always have VIP and excellent customer service for the preferred customer, however they will just provide sufficient service for the general customer.
Todays industry standard micromanagers will tell ya we have provided excellent service over the years, the only change is that service will be altered with less staff personnel or any other way of tweaking labor costs away from individual staff members, and thus now want to control an employee's tip revenue, which is totally wrong from a working person's perspective, however from a manager's perspective they always sees things differently.
Going to a 80/20 work/break ratio is definetely something that should be taken into consideration, ...under certain conditions. Some casinos have extremely long walk distances to the nearest break room. So what's the point having 20 minutes break if it takes you 6 to 8 minutes to get there and back?
Second point of interest, let's straighten things out: Not many dealers must work 60 or (new?) 80 minutes in a row without standing or sitting at the tables, without nothing to do (day dreaming). There are so many empty tables , especially the high limit sections or high limit tables, where the dealers are oftentimes standing for hours before the action starts. In other casinos , dealers must deal forever on a lousy 3 or 5 dollar game, 5 or even 7handed, no break, and this can be a very tough way to make a living if you have to deal 80 minutes instead of 60 before you can sit down for 10 to 12 minutes.
Going to 80/20 ratio would be ok if you do 2 different games and deal different tables. This way dealers are given a change. I don't think that any pitboss or floormanager would care of my comments. However, in the casinos of Europe where they do 80 minutes , dealers don't do 80 minutes at the same table. It's simply not good.
From Switzerland
Dealers cannot expect a player to tip when he's looking into a tired and frustrated face, plus, if the player is losing all the time.
The casinos decided to bring up games with much worse odds that kill the players at high speed. Thus, this is also bad for the dealers who cannot often enough pay out chips to the players. Instead, they must rake in the wagers with a pseudo-"sorry,sir" looks, which we all know by now....is all fake. A dealer doesn't care how much a player loses. He only cares how much the tip will be by the end of the day. As soon as he's going on break, he has forgotten who was playing at the table. A minority of the dealers truly care of the players, especially in the big casinos where there are so many different faces you probably not get to see again.
Hard working dealers shouldn't be allowed to gamble in the own property or the company. But this is very hard to enforce. Anyway, all dealers are adults and should be aware of the consequences of over-gambling in your time off. However, if you make 140 dollars per day in tips and must pay for your living, car, mortgage, food, gas, then losing just 50 dollars per day cannot be tolerated.
I am a poker player and see many poker dealers play during their time off. They may think that they are a good poker player and can make easy money on the side. But that's not true always. I see many dealers play extremely loose, drink too much as this is their relief time and they can do whatever they please, and in a way, I feel sorry when I see a dealer-off-work lose at a poker table. It makes me believe this person has not learned the lesson.
From Switzerland
the picture on top of this article, however, does not represent to me the typical image of casino dealers. Could it be that these people are "professional noise makers", paid by the union? I am curious if a heavy overweight dealer is able to run a tough card or roulette game standing up for 80 minutes straight....
It's funny how none of the Union backers had anything to say about the difficulty of owners/management to improve the service when they are stuck with old, lazy, poor attitude people.
Hilarious.
S711
Summary: Too many casinos on the Strip. And too big casinos on the Strip. Too much traffic, and too many "vendors" of entertainers, handing out these stupid fliers for escort services that officially are prohibited in Las Vegas.
On the other hand, there are not enough gambling tourists coming to Las Vegas these days. There may be still a lot of visitors, but their pockets aren't full of money for gambling, unfortunately. Many tourists just visit Vegas because the rooms are cheap, the sun keeps shining and the buffets are tasty. But this is not what's making the casinos' cash registers bimble. IT's the players that are needed to finance this whole episode.
The CityCenter is there now, and it's another giant on the world's casino capital road. In approx 2 years we will find out more about MGM Mirage's future. I think that's about the time they give themselves and their CEO to get the Titanic on track again. I think we're not far away from Mission Impossible on that one.
People can complain about how bad the companies treating them, cry for better contracts, and whatever they want. In the end, they will not get what they want unless the economy bounces back up. And that's money coming to Las Vegas.
From Switzerland
hey sinatra , the poor owners have it so hard with the millions in profits they make and you whine about nickels and dimes that the dealers get in tips. any other big corporate CEOs you feel sorry for? how about the ex-president of GM who received millions in perks for grinding the company in bankruptcy? how about those poor wall street fat cats that cant survive on their $1 million annual salary? sinatra can you help them out?
the issue of taking employees tips is not a good employee relations move. i have visited vegas several times and i do not and will not sit in the casinos all day or night I CAN'T AFFORD IT. i visit red rock canyon,valley of fire,hoover dam,does that make me wrong for staying at a property that is going to comp me for 5 nights? i feel bad for the dealers, however if you don't like it leave. many other states are allowing gambling Ohio just past it, starts in two years. maybe the dealers there can come here to the 20 degree temps and no sun shine for weeks at a time. The anti gaming crowd threntened us with vegas dealers coming here to take our jobs. it is a bad position they are in but boycots and strikes don't solve anything. negotiation does.
dipstick - It's not a matter of who got rich and who didn't. Maybe if those people got a good education and wanted to move up rather than be an 8 and skate type person, they would be able to make millions too. You are still dodging the point:
1 - Old/unattractive cocktail waitresses at older properties.....thank the union.
2 - Employees who can't do their job, but have seniority and can't be fired. Thank the Union.
3 - At least executives can be fired at any point in time for any reason.....you can't say that about a union employee.
4 - Would you go to a strip club if the strippers were union? Probably not.....see point #1.
Hilarious.
S711
sinatra, you're telling me unskilled labor is as good as union; when did they legalize pot in vegas?
dipstick - You're suggesting that Busboys, Cocktail Servers, Valet Parkers, and Bellman are skilled labor????
ha ha ha ha!!!!
Dude, I think you're the one smoking crack. I've read some funny stuff on this website, but that has got to be the best. Easily winner of the LV Sun Darwin Award for 2010....so far.
Thanks for the laughs. Go Union! ha!
S711
Sinatra, you have the tendency to offend other readers and not respect their opinion. Want some surprising additional "bonus negativitiy"? Well, here's how the tipping system in most European casinos works. You may be suprised and your eyes may pop, hard to believe perhaps...but the system works....
Example Switzerland:
Casino employees are being paid a guaranteed wage which is approximately on the nations average for this kind of work. It doesn't take a doctor's degree to spin a roulette ball, but some people skill and some mathematical understanding can be helpful. Therefore, pay itself is ok.
However, the tips are appreciated, even over here. If a player tips the dealer, the tips are being pooled. And they go into the master pool, meaning, it's not for the few dealers who work in the particular shift at the particular tables, but it's being pooled and is for all casino employees. And this also includes floormen, surveillance people, and security guards, and also shift-bosses.
Yes, there's a key how some of these tips are being shared, but most of the tips go into the pool that guarantees the salary. The casino workers of Switzerland do not really depend on the tips, as the casino guarantees the main wage. A certain fraction of the total of the tips is being shared on top of the guaranteed wage and is being paid off as a 2nd pay-check a few days in the following month. Uusually it's somewhat between 10 or 20 per cent of the guaranteed paycheck, which, as I said, is about what is considered as a "fair salary".
to be continued....
part two:
Yes, and that's how they do it over here. Players in most European countries know that casino employees depend on the tips, just like the dealers in Nevada, but the casinos understand also that there are times at which the tips could be too low to make a normal life possible. That's why the "guaranteed salary" by our casinos is big enough in any given month. The additional 10 to 20 per cent makes it interesting and is some sort of a motivation for everybody to deliver good service. Not all dealers work accordingly, which is a different question.
Not all "systems" are perfect or bad or good. But I also think that paying minimum wage, just like 6 or 7 dollars , like they obviously pay in the Nevada casinos, is tough if you're a dealer at joints like Vegas Club, Silver Nugget or perhaps the El Cortez. How in the world do these dealers make 100 dollars in tips per day if there are only very few games with super low limits? At best these places can be used to get trained to the job. Unfortunately, some of these dealers obviously never get a good training or motivation and never leave these places until they leave the industry for good.
As somebody from the "outside" looking at the situation, I would think it would be better for the casino industry of Nevada to raise that "minimum wage" for dealers to 10 or 12 dollars/hour and take , let's say, 20 to 30 per cent of all tips for the dealers to feed that. But that's how I would do it, which is not relevant.
I don't like personal criticss in this comment's section. The Sun created it in order to give readers the opportunity to share their opinions. Which I like a lot.
Greetings from Switzerland
boris is right, people are coming with hardly any gambling money in their pockets. vegas can't sustain a bunch of 30 year old crowd just coming to clubs to get laid. you've treated the 50 and older regular people like crap even though they play all day and nite while they're in vegas. we're staying home and playing closer to home because we can get treated the same way here without paying $500 roundtrip and $25 per bag.
Maybe it's a pretty good idea of the big casinos to shut down parts of their towers/floors, fire the personel not needed for approx 1 or 2 years, keep the floors shut but clean and wait for better days. Alternatively, another good idea would be to shut down parts of the gaming floor, just like the Showboat/Castaway did before they finally went bankrupt and closed completely. In the end, a few months before the final knock-out , the initial casino floor was cut in slices and what I saw when I was there was maybe 25 per cent of the original casino space. Sad, but inevitable, because less slot machines in operations as nobody plays them anyway means less electric power being wasted for nothing.
A good way to do this would be to set up artificial walls from the bottom to the ceiling, and thus hiding everything that's behind. The casinos will not look ugly that way but become a bit smaller. I think that's the next step some casinos will have to consider....
From Switzerland
Denver21 said
"They have "buzz sessions" to prepare their employees for their shift so that they are prepared to give each customer great service."
and
"The dealers also wanted to get rid of these "buzz sessions" so that they would not be responsible for being rude to customers."
You haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about in regards to Harrah's buzz sessions.
When Harrah's took over the casino I worked at they made us do buzz sessions right out by the pits IN FRONT of the people we were about to be dealing to. Being forced to play Duck-Duck-Goose, The Hokey-Pokey and other childrens games in front of your customers was degrading,embarrassing, and humiliating. Harrah's said these buzz sessions were done to "improve morale". Do you honestly think that making grown adults act like five-year old children in front of other adults is in anyway going to improve morale? If you want people to come to your (Harrah's) workplace in a good, happy mood then how about treating them like adults with respect and decency? How about not taking everything away from us (vacation, 401k, etc) because the company is going through a "cost-saving period" while we see YOU lining your pockets with outrageous bonuses made off the backs of the dealers and other frontline employees you have just skinned again.
You see Denver21, I actually worked for Harrah's and have first-hand knowledge of their doings. Based on your idea of their buzz sessions it's clear to see that you haven't the slightest clue of how Harrah's really is.
to me, this is capitalism at its finest. Taking away the vacation days and the 401K plan and at the same time distributing huge bonusses among the top cats, that's not only unfair, it's also unethical. You therefore can't expect from your employees to be 100 per cent loyal to the company if the company is not treating its employees fair.
BorisR - You have now become the "Thread Hijacker" of the Century. The article is about Unions and somehow you bring up your battle with tipping? What does that have to do with anything? I have no idea why either, since you are a stiff.
For someone who lives 1,000s of miles away, you just can't seem to get enough of our city....hilarious.
I've now begun to laugh at your comments because they are so predictable and redundant.
S711
BorisR--Interesting information about tipping--which is very much what the underlying theme of this thread is!
Dealers being paid a higher base wage and sharing a percentage of tips sounds fair as a strategy to deal with economic hard times when even the most popular dealers would have trouble paying their bills due to lack of business. It would be up to management to cull out or retrain dealers who aren't competent so as not to give a free ride to those not doing their fair share of the revenue earning.
Just remember everyone, before Ceasars dealers voted for a union they were told by Harrahs that they did not agree with sharing their tips with anybody and that their benefits would not change. The dealers voted to be represented by this union that knows nothing about the casino business and now everything is negotiable. DEALERS IN LAS VEGAS BEWARE: BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!!
I have never been a casino dealer but I am a union member and I can tell you it doesn't mean you can be lazy and unproductive on the job. Most of us are looking for the next promotion, and the perks (preferred vacation days off, flex days) will go to those who are still hard workers and therefore pleasing to the management. The union fights the big battles which has maintained a middle class. GM didn't go down because of the unions. My grandfather was a sit-downer and working conditions were atrocious before the unions, just as they are now for many.
Those of you who are concerned that your unionized bellman, waitress or dealer is older and not as attactive as others need to remember that we are all going to get old, and we're not always going to be as cute as we are now. Older people may move slower, but from my experience, they are more patient and kind.
"Those of you who are concerned that your unionized bellman, waitress or dealer is older and not as attactive as others need to remember that we are all going to get old, and we're not always going to be as cute as we are now. Older people may move slower, but from my experience, they are more patient and kind."
Aprilgirl12 - Do you live in the same Las Vegas that we live in? How many tourists come to town to be served by Old, Unattractive cocktail waitresses? Have you ever been serviced by an old bellman who could barely lift your bags and moved slower than molasses? Have you ever been to the Riviera, Sahara, Las Vegas Hilton, anywhere Downtown, or any property that is older than 20 yrs old?
If you haven't, then you haven't experienced the full effect of Unions in this town. If you think they give better service and a better experience than younger, more aggressive, more efficient workers....then you are blind to the truth. It doesn't mean that good, older employees in those positions don't exist.....it just means that the majority of them are miserable, old, unattractive, and don't give a $hi!!!! about their jobs. Open your eyes and you will see.
S711
I am no longer 24 years old, and I have been to several casinos and stayed in many different hotels in Las Vegas during my "gambling career". I can confirm that it's still the traditional quality service that makes the difference. Say what you want, but the El Cortez has been there for so many years now. There are quite some people with certain seniority, but that's exactly what makes the El Cortez so special. The atmosphere inside is unique, and the friendly way is so completely different to places such like the Planet Hollywood or perhaps the Hard Rock Casinow here you need to be stoned to tolerate all the noise that's surrounding you.
Although I am a great fan of electronic dance music, I enjoy this old piano player at the El Cortez while I am sitting at the bar drinking my red wine. I couldn't imagine the El Cortez for instance being a place that decides that employees must be younger than 30 years old on average. Even the cocktail waitresses there don't have to be under 20 years old, it doesn't make a difference. The place is just what Vegas was all about. I am glad they keep up with their strategy. Obviously it works, as they get the kind of customers needed to survive these tough times. I rather lose my money at the El Cortez than at Mandalay Bay or perhaps the Excalibur or Planet Hollywood. Old style Vegas is still the way to go. Biggger, higher, louder, younger, more sun tanned, that's not always the right way to go, folks.
From Switzerland
The reason why places like El Cortez are still around has nothing to do with old cocktail waitress & employees......it's simple math......they don't have much debt to service. They're old & tired properties. The El Cortez a couple of years ago renovated some suites and made them more hip.....not sure what they spent on them......however, I don't think it was very much money.
It's all about the money. But ask any casino operator......even people you guys around here respect so much.....like Michael Gaughan......would you rather have a Union house or a Non-Union house? Every single one of them will say Non-Union. Why? Because they know they could have a better product/service which leads to more money if it were non-union.
S711
Sinatra,
I'm not a local, I am a tourist. I love LV and I couldn't care less what the help looks like as long as they are friendly and do their job. I have never once thought that the service was less because the person was old. Some of the adorable youngsters at Starbucks would rather finish their conversation with their coworker than provide efficient service to the customer. I don't get that since it seens they are working for tips, and most forget to smile and even try to fake that they are glad you are there. I don't think it is fair to generalize about the young/old service people any more than union/non-union. Yes, I have worked with lazy slobs, union and non-union, but I have never thought my unionized coworkers were lazy and my coworkers range in age from 18 to 65.
Unions are the down fall of the economy. Look what they did to he auto industry. They are over paid, and under educated. Down with the greedy unions
Unions protect the workers. Wall Street is to be blamed for the economy, not the union.
Aprilgirl12 - Unions protect the workers who can't hold their own. Workers who are good at what they do never have to worry about keeping their job. Is the workers that don't work well that need unions to help them.
S711
Sinatra,
Unions protect the workers on a grander scale than just personal problems - yes, some people overuse the union because they don't want to work but in my experience they are in the minority. The union is really just workers banding together to ensure a decent wage and benefits, including retirement. The people I work with are educated from high school diploma to Master degree and 99.9% are doing their job very well. They are in their job because the union fights to keep a decent wage that quality people will be attracted to.
As a former service industry employee I believe they deserve good working conditions and benefits just like anyone else. The money is there and to say the worker shouldn't benefit just gives it to the upper class who have way more than they need. The upper of the uppers just want to look good and give away the money their employees have earned them at charity balls. Forget about that! Be real and give the workers that keep your business functioning a decent wage. Keep quality people with a quality employee wage and benefit package. We need to stick together and fight for the middle class.
Aprilgirl12 - Let me give you some real world examples of how the Union is a cancer.......
There are more than 1 or 2, but I will speak specifically about 1 person at work....they are a casino porter....you know, the ones responsible for taking out the trash and keeping the property clean? Well, this person is a long term employee (30+ yrs), is a Union worker, and CAN BARELY WALK! Yes, they can barely walk. Every day in the EDR, they have trouble walking with their tray of food to the table. When they are on the casino floor, they walk at 1/10 the speed of a 20 yr old. The result? They get paid max pay scale for the job, at least 1 person has to help them throughout the day....because they can't take the trash out by themselves.....they can't lift a tray of food, so they can't lift a 20 lb bag of trash either. So what does that mean? My casino has to pay for 1.5 persons to do the job that it should take 1 person to do......that means less profit....which means when it is time to let go of employees because of the economy, the people with the lower seniority gets let go 1st.....which happens to be the most productive, harder working employees.
We are stuck with the old, inefficient, and decrepit workers because of seniority. I don't have any issues if they were able to do their job....but they clearly can't, but the Union protects them.
That was just 1 example. I can give you at least 100 more that I personally have witnessed. And if you think that people don't want to come to Vegas to see young, hot cocktail waitresses.......I think you are really out of touch with reality. The cocktail waitresses at work are old, cranky, and slow....their customer service sucks. But we can't get rid of them because of the Union. So, your argument falls apart right there. I can show you real-life examples of the Union failing.
Enough said.
S711