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Friday, Feb. 19, 2010 | 10:18 a.m.
Sun Coverage
CARSON CITY – For only the second time, Nevada casinos posted a loss – but this time it was the biggest.
The state Gaming Control Board today released its “Gaming Abstract” for fiscal year 2009, which ended June 30, showing a net loss of $6.7 billion among the 260 major casinos in Nevada.
Clubs along the Las Vegas Strip, which makes up 53 percent of the gambling revenue in Nevada, registered a $4.1 billion loss. The only bright spot, from a financial standpoint, was that people drank more. Sales of booze rose by 2.5 percent while revenue tied to casinos, rooms and food dropped. But 36 percent were recorded as “comp” drinks.
“It was a horrendous year,” said Bill Bible, president of the Nevada Resort Association, which represents several casinos on the Strip. He said many of the casinos had three and four waves of layoffs to cut cost during this national recession.
The only other time Nevada gaming companies reported a loss was in 2003, of $33.5 million, said Frank Streshley, chief of tax and licensing for the board. The business downturn came in the middle of the national recession.
Every market except Elko County, with its strong mining business, showed a loss for the fiscal 2009, Streshley said.
“Although we have seen some improvement recently, this reflects a tough fiscal year,” Streshley said. He said there was a national and global recession, and high unemployment. At the Strip, he said there were fewer visitors and they were “spending substantially less.”
The 260 statewide casinos that grossed more than $1 million or more in gaming revenues posted $22 billion in gross revenue, down 12 percent from the prior fiscal year. And in fiscal 2008, the clubs registered a win of $721.1 million.
The $6.7 billion loss is before federal income tax and extraordinary items. And the casinos paid $778.7 million in taxes in fees, or 7.4 percent of their gaming revenue.
In a breakdown, the report shows downtown Las Vegas casinos suffered a $54 million loss; Laughlin casinos reported a $158.8 loss; Boulder Strip casinos registered a loss of $823.3 million and the casinos in the balance of Clark County posted a $1.3 billion loss.
On the Strip, Streshley said the $4.1 billion loss reflects a 686 percent drop from the previous fiscal year, when the clubs reported a profit of $709.4 million.
The report shows there were 98,711 employees at the Strip casinos, down from the 114,465 workers in fiscal 2008.
Streshley noted this downturn comes only two fiscal years after the Strip reported a strong $1.6 billion in net income.
Bible said casinos on the Strip and downtown closed rooms and towers and reduced expenses “but there were still terrible numbers.”
On the Strip, casinos reported $178 million in bad debts in the gambling portion of the business. That compares with $112 million in fiscal 2007. The casinos reported $1.3 billion in complimentary expenses that includes drinks, rooms and food.
Statewide, total general and administrative expenses hit $14 billion. Streshley said more than $5 billion of that were casinos writing down the value of assets.
The control board said Washoe County’s 32 casinos reported a combined net loss of $47.4 million; Elko County clubs were registered a net income of $36.1 million. The south shore of Lake Tahoe with five clubs reported a net loss of $259.6 million and the Carson Valley area with 14 casinos generated a net loss of $8.6 million.
karma seems to have caught up with blood sucking casinos such as harrah's...
i hope this experience humbles the casinos and teaches it to adapt more humane practices with patrons and employees....but i seriously doubt it.
I guess the cigarette smoke is not as attractive as they thought. Times are changing.
"Sales of booze rose by 2.5 percent"
Must have been at Harrah's
Grandma
If their livelihood depends on stealing from their customers they deserve to fail.
As I have been screaming about these past many months, the casinos could get more revenue back if they just go back to the basics of the gambling business. Loosen the slots, cheapen the rooms, give away the food, and give great comps for return business. The tourists will come flocking back, especially if Vegas gets very competitive against the Indian casinos. Simple matter of competition and value!!
I have a "When The Fun Stops!" brochure they can use. Poor new Mercedes, BMW, Hummer, Bentley, Rolls Royce, driving casino kings now have to start looking at Toyota's. Oops! Talk about the deep end!
stop taxing wealthy people to pay for the meals of poor people with 5 kids and they'd have more money to drop at the slots.
liberals are so dumb. they wonder why the economy is so bad, and at the same time take money away from the very people that CREATE jobs and spending.
environprotector
If ONLY the casinos would do that. I read a little article in the local paper this morning that Hawaii is thinking of allowing gambling and not just slot machines at the 7-11 but allowing casinos to be built because that State, too, is suffering financially. IF that happens - there goes another huge segment of tourists that come to Vegas all the time. The Hawaiians (sp?) love to gamble and if they have their own casinos - why fly to Vegas? If this does happen in Hawaii - MAYBE the Vegas casinos will get the hint.
All the Kings horses and all the Kings men, couldn't put the gaming industry in better shape again. Bad businees decisions are catching up on all those greedy scunbags at the top. Times are a little tougher and the cream rises to the top. All you losers who thought you could do no wrong, are feeling the heat. Trouble is, it's the employees who are feeling the heat. The scum at the top have enriched and protected themselves with employees holding the egg shells.
poor stevem; if he wasn't such a hateful snot, he coulda been a contenda! Sadly, (not really) he took his little nuggets and moved to... well, somewhere else. Cleveland, was it? who cares. Could not hack it in Sin City, is all I know. Blames it all on "liberals." You know what, little man, go look in your mirror. THAT is why ya couldn't do it.
Hey fosimmons, er... OJ,
If that dang stripper-mobile ever gets back from it's World Tour, maybe we could get you outta the slam, lock you in the back o' that and parade you up and down the strip! "WE GOT OJ!"
THAT might bring some folks back to town!
Maybe a few less of those TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR BONUSES handed out to the greedy pig CEO's would help keep CasinoLand in the BLACK.
Do not worry about the owners of CasinoLand, kids...
they have a license to legally STEAL MONEY! They'll land on their feetsies.
Las Bugsy has TOTALLY lost touch with who its prime market is (or was on its way to becoming the top gambling spot in the world). It is now fighting over a few Asian whales and has turned its back on the ones who came there to experience what used to be an 'interesting' and relatively cheap place for adult fun. Those whales lost $500 million in the last five months and NOBODY can sustain that for long.
Soon the whales will migrate to Macao and other places built by the Wynns and Adelsons and Bugsy will fall like dominos.
How bout lowering room rates...still way too high and how bout the overpriced food...never going back till these prices get much lower...NEVER!
u can't blame OBAMA for this. casino owner should look in the mirror to look at who responsible for there down fall. owner better not hope Hawaii don't start opening casino on the island or they will be up the creek without a paddle.
Total revenues down from $25.0B to $19.2B or 23%.
"Other General and Administrative Expenses" up from $1.9B to $6.4B. Funny how the NGCB calls impairment charges other G&A. Break it out next time guys! :)
Oh, don't worry...the excitement of CityCenter will have tourists flocking in in 2010!
The lost revenue is actually my fault. I left a couple hundred bucks ahead in December. Now I feel guilty. Somebody give me the address I should send my meager winnings back to. :)
Excuse me if I interrupt this little love fest but the article was about the losses suffered by the casinos.
It seems to me that is says they lost 4.1 billion after writing off 5 billion. Methinks the headline is a somewhat misleading and that a bit of clever accounting was involved here.
But this crowd can somehow turn (even) this into a (R) or (D) thing.
"Maybe a few less of those TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR BONUSES handed out to the greedy CEO's would help keep CasinoLand in the BLACK".
It has to start somewhere otherwise quit moaning about the take.
The "Inidans are on the Warpath" and doing very well.
No big bouses for these guys.
The custormer sleeps in his own bed at night, eat's at a local fancy resturant or at his own dinner table. See's a average entertainment show at a Indian Showroom at a price that is 75% less than Vegas.
Who needs Vegas?
"Report: Casinos lost money for second time in history"
20 more times and we'll be even!
maybe Obama can bring some much needed "Change" to the strip...
he can start by breaking up the cartel between harrah's the gaming control board and the bad check unit of the district attorney's office!
i hope that bully casinos like caesars palace go under and are replaced with legit operators that value their clientele:)
I wish I had an accountant as good as these boys.
Just before every Legislative Session we have a release of how depressed the casino earnings are... And just before every promotion of casino stock(s)a WONDEROUS news release on the MAGICAL uptick in profit recovery.
Reminds me of when Harrah's in Reno built a new addition and upgraded to the tune of $60,000,000 AND (but a few months later) was in for a reduction of assessed value to about $28M... depreciation, you know.
And just how do you write down the value of assets? Do you write them up when times are good?
4.1 bil loss, but included 5 bil non cash expense. So they made 900 million or so..or better then the 721 million a year ago? What kind of accounting is being reported?
I got to tell u , thatall my life I would not dare bet against but I am totally convinced and bet against vegas as I believe it cannot survive this, i hope i am wrong but i don't think i am
I thought they were going to get the hell taxed out of them to balance the state budget...Nuts.
$6.7 billion lost in one year, "Streshley noted this downturn comes only two fiscal years after the Strip reported a strong $1.6 billion in net income."
That is a huge loss compared to a minor profit in what is said to be a strong year. It sounds like they are going to be able to carryforward this loss for a long time.
This sounds like PR in advance of the discussion on how much more $$$ would be appropriate for the Casino Industry to cough up.
That is what you get when the casino boss votes for RepubliCONs/Can'ts/No ... LOSERS!
It's two years since the wife and I visited your fair city. We got skinned at the slots so badly two times in a row that we vowed to stay away until casino management fixed that major problem. Pricey food and rooms, reduced comps, mediocre shows, even crime can be tolerated or dealt with. But when the major purpose of your visit is to play the machines and have fun, the objective is thwarted when payback is so puny that customer wipe-out is certain to be swift and sure. A $300 per day slot stake gone in 2 hours is just not acceptable.
Las Vegas casino whiz kid planners seem to have misjudged their market by building these huge palaces with fancy bars and restaurants and thousands of rooms. All the common people (their base) wanted was the Stardust-Riviera-Desert Inn type of resort with a bed to crash in at night and some ordinary American cuisine. To the slot player a shot at the jackpot with a chance of winning or breaking even on occasion is necessary for enjoyment. Casino moguls have lost all respect for their customers. They also lack any sound business sense(too many frat parties in college). This is also true of the Midwest and Indian casinos. Ruled by greed.
We've been banking our Vegas vacation money now for a couple years and have quite a pile. We'd love to return but have heard nothing that would entice us to make that 2000 mile journey. We are two turned off slot junkies hoping for a revival of the Las Vegas golden era. Man, I miss the old days!
Gaming taxes are based on casino revenues folks, not all these losses, equally sales and room tax is around 8% -10%, so the $6B decrease x 8% = $480M down from last year, which is why the state needs to lay off a whole bunch of government freeloaders.
subtract out the more than 5 billion in write downs for reduced values that are not actual losses and the yearly loss is about equal to the profit of 2008. Not so bad when you think about personally our home values gave up years of profits all in one fell swoop. So casinos gave back one year of profits and all the executives still made bank and are now crying how bad it is. The juggling numbers game, in bad times make it look worse than it is, in good times, make it look better than it is. The casinos execs laugh all the way to the bank
IndianaDave, Same story for us. I have a feeling that many other long time visitors feel the same way.
woodman and indiana the reality is that YOU just don't have enough money to blow any on a trip to vegas. if you lost 300 in a few hours around 2006 you would have just taken a little more money on your home equity line and played a few more hours in hopes of getting a little back. And even if you kept losing your home value would increase along with your home equity line so you were covered. You don't have the ATM formerly known as your house any more to draw from. Your paycheck now has to pay the bills that you ran up while accessing your "credit." You cant afford to "blow your money in Vegas when you have to save....." I never could figure out how playing slot machines equals having fun but I guess different strokes for different folks. I was going to train my pet monkey to play slot tournaments because that's what the people look like as they sit there smacking the button at breakneck speed, but the casinos wouldn't allow me to bring him in. I think they were afraid he was counting cards and giving me signals as i played blackjack and poker
OJ, at least you don't have a afro-american dialect, unless you wants to
PLUV wrote: "Gaming taxes are based on casino revenues folks, not all these losses..."
I'm not a CPA, but I do know that Corporations -even in NV & CA- pay Federal Taxes on NET not GROSS. If our tax-hungry State legislature decided to tax GROSS receipts on gambling (I hate that phrase, "gaming"), then an army of casino lawyers would bury them for years in Federal Courts - Which they can then write off on their taxes!
$6 Billion buys a lot of attorney retainer
Waddya know - I'm really NOT a CPA (or a gambler). The "non restricted" Casinos have to pay the State 6.75% on GROSS gambling receipts, plus fees for machines ($330/year per slot)and entertainment revenue, comps, etc.
We're SOooo screwed if our State cannot live on 6.75% on $22 BILLION, or $1.48 BILLION in taxes. Thats $571 per state resident, just from gambling taxes.
Decades ago we gambled in Vegas but fifteen or twenty years ago switched to Laughlin be cause they were friendly to campers, trailers and motor homes. We did our gambling in Laughlin for many years but when the Indian Casinos opened in Calif. we stopped going to Laughlin. Two years ago we started receiving letters from the Riverside Casino in Laughlin offering some very good comps so we once again took the six hour trip to Laughlin and enjoyed getting away from home and using our motor home. However we still do most of our gambling in local casinos. I believe that is going to be a problem that Las Vegas will not be able to over come unless they take steps to encourage and welcome back people with RVs. Vegas needs everyone's business and not just the high rollers and to get everyone's business Vegas needs to make a few changes:
1- Dry RV parking free for all for two days.
1B- RV camping with hook ups comped for gamblers.
2- Buffets that are under $10.00
3- Free self help Drink machines in casinos
4- Rooms that are under 50 dollars
5- Daytime promotions for many casinos
6- Live entertainment playing in loser's lounge.
7- Coupons available on line.
8- Free Play issued on a percentage of the amount gambled in the previous 24 hours.
10- Let the gamblers know how much must be gambled to receive comps and what their present comp value is.
People should be comped as quickly as possible. It does no good for them to get a letter telling them that the have a free room and buffet next month because very few people are going to drive 300 miles for a free buffet. But when a person receives a comp they appreciate it and the comp is a part of their trip that they will enjoy and talk about.
Any RV parking should be within walking distance of the transit system and casinos and have water and a dump station available for RVs. Qualifications should be set that require a certain level of gambling to remain over two days. After two days a minimum fee would be charged similar to State Parks if the camper is not gambling.
There are many people that will lose a couple hundred dollars a day gambling that would not dream of paying two hundred dollars for a room or forty dollars for a buffet or 150 dollars to go to a show.
I will probably never return to Las Vegas because I would like to park my motor home close to the down town area but the comments I read about the RV parks in that area say they are little more than parking lots and very cramped.
"The decrease in gaming jobs is something that Obama needs to think about. When he says that people shouldn't come here to gamble, he's messing with people's livelihood."
Why is this something Obama should think about? We elected Mayor Goodman, a bunch of legislators and Mr. Gibbons. Should we not expect them do diversy this economy? Always looking to the Federal government to do things that local elected officials should be doing...should have done already is so lame.
JustMe
Your post to Woodman and Indiana was arrogant, not to mention way off base and presumptious. They may have LOTS of money to "blow" in Vegas, but chose not to. MANY people have a gambling budget when they go to Vegas and it is usually based upon not only on how much they can afford but more important on how much they want to piss away. Those budgets may include seeing shows, going out to dinner - things to do to get the WHOLE Las Vegas experience - not just gambling.
Your condescending attitude towards both is like biting the hand that feeds you. The more people like woodman and indiana that are starting to stay away from Vegas - the worse off it will be since the average person/gambler made that town and always supported it until recently. So keep on posting your arrogant posts and keep more average people away from Vegas!! Enough are staying away already.
Next week the leglislature is meeting to discuss the budget shortage and this week the casino industry releases a report about their huge loss's from their fiscal year ending over seven months ago!
Any connection?
i would like to go back through all the sun's archives and find every politician, p.r. suit, chamber of commerce, and "expert" that said "vegas is recession-proof" back in 2007 / 2008 and make them explain why they got it so wrong.
i saw the guy from mgm on the news yesterday saying "vegas is picking up".
of COURSE he is going to say that.
the only people that i see saying vegas has turned the corner are casino operators.
Indianadave, Your comment is as perfect as could be said! My wife and I are only 286 miles from Vegas and we use to go there an average of 20 or 30 times a year. Now we avoid that town and we will never return! I swear, I have a huge bag in my store full of Comps that has to weigh at least 10 or 15 pounds, from almost every casino in Vegas. They are very pretty and I'm thinking of wallpapering my Computer room at home with them. Keep up the good work Dave and stay away from that blood sucking town! I also miss the good old days, but had to learn it the hard way by loosing many many, thousands of dollars before finally coming to my senses!
People are going more and more to the Indian Casinos. We take a bus for $10.00 and get $45.00 back. And we win more than we did in Vegas.
Just Me:
That's $300 each daily slot stake- $600, and we were out there 8 days. We brought $5000 just for gambling, plus another $5000 for rooms, food, other entertainment, gas, etc. I guess that makes us low rollers or maybe pond scum by Vegas standards? That's why we decided to stay away. No respect or appreciation anymore...and the casinos here in the Chicago area and the Indian casinos are getting just as snooty as Vegas. Being retired and the zest for life slowly ebbing away I don't really give a damn if the casino industry ever corrects itself. We saw the glory days of Las Vegas and sat feet away from the great entertainers. We had great fun gambling, dining and just interacting with the friendly souls of the West, not to mention the wonderous scenery on our car trips.
One more point. There are people in this world, especially people wise enough to make it to retirement, that are financially secure through hard work and do not have to use their homes as ATMs. Let me know how the trained monkey idea works out. I never realized that slots were so boring and unfun. Well, they make dandy decorations to fill up the increasingly peopleless casinos.
stevem,
gotta say, that sounds about right.
Los' Wages is quite a ways away from a return to prosperity.
Vegas needs to make itself friendlier, more reasonable, and more open to a wider range of players.
Perhaps after bankruptcy, the fragments of major casino corporations who have overleveraged themselves and imnploded like galactic super novas, will be divied up into solvent, savvy proprietorships who will be able to afford to offer us the "Good-Ol'-Days" style gambling hall experience once again--slots that pay 97% or better, personable treatement, reasonable room rates, enjoyable and affordable entertainers (Like magician Mac King), and the respect EVERY customer deserves, whether your zip code is Beijing or Henderson.
The smoking issue will be resovled to where casino owners realize that while all gamblers are willing to risk losing money to enjoy their pastime, not all are willing to risk the chance of getting sick from someone else's smoke. (I know of MANY players who have given up gambling because of the increased fear of cancer.)
As for the entertainers, we old timers miss the personable professionals-- Sinatra, Dino, Sammy, Liberace, Red Skelton, Bob Hope, Perry Como, Danny Kay, George Burns, John Denver--the guys who sang and joked with us, They were of an era that has passed, perhaps to come again in some future beyond our lives.
There are geat entertainers today, of course.
The pricing for their shows is outrageous. I've been wanting to see Lance Burton for years, but a $100 a seat? Etc. The entertainment world, it seems to me, is also outa whack with economic reality. I don't enjoy a show when I still feel the ouch in my pocket book.!
The whole scene--gambling, accommodations, enterainment, food, all need to have a reset.
enviroprotector and Det_Munch are both on the money....go back to the good old days when it was called GAMBLING and not GAMING
If Hawaii builds a casino (god forbid) Boyd's Downtown Hotels will be completely empty.
After reading all of the posts here, the casino executives need to get over their stupidity, greed, and assinine bottom line mentality, and get the value going befor it's too late..
People, get a grip. Did anyone expect decent numbers with an official national unemployemnt rate of 10% and an unofficial one of closer to 15%? Of course numbers are going to be down. Stop thinking local as much. And keep in mind something like 50% of Vegas vistors according to the LVCVA Visitor's Survey, are from California. And as we all know, Calfornia was hit with their bad numbers waaaaay before the rest of the country.
Maybe people would gamble more if they would not keep getting bent over by places like Evil Harrah's and Greedy MGM.
Crap like $10 Bloody Mary's at the casino bar, 6/5 BJ, terrible BJ rules, ridiculous table limits, bad sports odds, etc., pisses off people.
The chickens are coming home to roost now. People will only take getting screwed for so long before they take their money elsewhere.
Hey MGM and Harrah's: Offer fair games and lower your GD prices. Getta clue.
In the low 90s, I remember the Stratosphere Tower, formerly Vegas World, offering great promotions. It was quickly over when they started building this huge tower of babylon, which later on turned to be Stupak's nemesis. He got rid of his casino before it was too late. Good for him.
And there were so many other great things that made me feel good when I came to Vegas. Poker in Sam's Town with these retired, but in a very friendly poker room with very generous poker comps, playing bonus slotmachines at the Stardust and collecting one free and quite valuable funbook from the gift shop, EVERY SINGLE DAY. The room deal I got at the Stardust these days was just awesome! I don't rememer anymore how much I paid, but it certainly wasn't mroe than 20 during the week, and there was this little pool right in front of my bungalow, just in the good old days!
When the MGM Grand was built, at least at the beginning there was a quite and comfortable poker room, back in the rear. What they have now is a club atmosphere poker room. No wonder it drives away all players interested in poker and leaves mostly internet poker kids as action junkies there.
For the budget gambler, Binions Horseshoe offered great room rates and comps and always had good poker action. No more Binions in 2 years from now? The hotel's already closed. And let's quickly take a look at the other locals casinos. The Fiesta in Henderson tried to keep up with super-sizing. Formerly the Reserve , a nice and cozy little casino with loads of Full Pay Videopoker arcades, removed its valet service slowly, added plenty of more gaming space, and has become anything but a real "Fiesta" place to me. But it's still much better than the greed factories on Vegas Boulevard.
Of all that I've seen over the past 20 years, I can only confirm that most comments above have some truth in it. Too bad that the big corporations have soooo little to do with gambling any longer. I wished that the managers would know what it means being a gambler. So they would know what players want, and manager their places accordingly.
Must be tough managing something and keeping the smile up for the masses on something that you obviously hate so badly that you don't even really know what you're trying to sell to the people. But the bonus you take is always welcome to your pockets, isn't it? I am sure there are many people out there who would gladly take on the job you do, even without claiming a huge bonus, and still being successful.
From Switzerland
stevem is like rest of clueless teanuts. in a teabaggers poll 2% think taxes have gone down under obama, while reality is that 95% of people got a tax break. jim jones where are you, you could have a new flock if you were still alive.
ahhh it was so nice to see the home value "virtually" go up, calling up your bank, set the date for an appointment and sign the new home loan contract. The money looked like "free" cash indeed for the people who were after the quick cash only. Good way of getting more liquidity for spending, leisure, gaming , easy living. Some people were smarter than that, saw the problems come up. Some didn't. After all, a home is something to live in, and not something you can use as your personal ATM. If people simply bought 5 homes to take advantage of the ATM effect, they should have known that some day the home prices couldn't keep going up anymore. And what would happen when this happened was obvious.
On the other side, people that bought a home for themselves and carefully lived according their budget, to them it really didn't make a big difference what happened over the past 2 years.
The crux is that all went hand-in-hand. Even the casinos kept building bigger and more towers in the dream that growth was unlimited. Just like there is no TOMORROW, so-to-say. I reckon that there will be some more casino bankruptcies to come before the market will stabilize and start to grow again. We haven't seen the final wash-out yet. If the Euro problems get bigger and that bubble will burst (Ireland, Portugal and Spain on the edge of going bust), this will have another huge impact worldwide. And for Vegas, too.
From Switzerland
Untill Vegas comps are better then the Seminoles, i'll stay in FL. It's that simple, sad but true.
Vegas comps are pretty tight these days. I once had the opportunity to join a player on a trip to Vegas, and he definetely bet it big. I mean, BIG AND HEAVY. And that's when Vegas' full value kicks in. I know, it's a super gamble to go for the free suites, the unlimited restaurant comps and more fancy stuff. And sometimes, the tips are much higher than a full tab in a regular restaurant, but it's part of the show.
To the regular players, gambling for 10 or 20 dollars/ hand only gives good comp value if you wager off-strip. On the Strip, I think you must wager 50 or so, and up, for 3 or 4 hours. And then you might get your room and buffets comped. However, any idea how much this could cost you?
As for me, I rather pay my rooms myself, without any obligation. And if I gamble, I gamble enough to get a buffet ticket or a coffee shop voucher. That's fine with me. I don't want a free room that's actually costing me 2500 usd or so. I rather pay 50 per night, knowing that it could save me 2450 usd I would have lost trying to get the room comp.
This one is for the comp hunters: The Suncoast Hotel is offering daily free breakfast or dinner buffet for 300 pts, respectively 300+600 pts, for dinner. Plus, you keep the points. Sounds like a great promotion, doesn't it?
It is important to do the math and then find out for yourself if it's worth it or not.
Let's say you have to wager 2 dollars on a regular videopoker machine, to get 1 point, this means, 600 dollars coin-in to get a breakfast buffet. Or 900 points for dinner, which would require a 1800 dollar coin-in on a regular videopoker machine. Perhaps they have removed the Optimum Play machines? Or do they need you to wager 4 dollars for 1 point now? (Station has probably removed the points from these banks)
Anyway, from any international casino standards' view, this promotion is just terrific. Most casinos don't give you a few lunch for wagering 2000 dollars on a 99 per cent videopoker machine. The expected theoretical loss (or winner for the house) on a 99 per cent machine is 20 dollars. The value of a dinner buffet is approx 12 to 14 dollars. So that's a cool 70 per cent return on your theoretical loss. Which in my eyes is a super deal.
On the other hand, a 1800 Dollar play through on a videopoker, even if the average payout is 99 per cent, that doesn't mean you come out a 20 dollars loser. Much more likely , you come out a 200 or 300 dollar loser, or a 150 dollar winner, or a 500 dollar loser, or a 800 dollar winner. To the casino, it doesn't matter whether you win or lose, they go by the theoretical loss you have,and by the number of hands you play. But for you as a player, it doesn't matter what good is your expected theoretical value , as long as you have a true and realized net loss of 300 or 500 dollars. I don't think you would enjoy your free buffet much after dropping 500 dollars, just to get the buffet comp. That's why , from my point of view, the comp value is of lesser importance to many people nowadays...
From Switzerland
I don't change the way or amount i gamble, the comps are better here, i'll gamble here that's all.
wow, the big bigger lie rolls on, first it is not possible for casinos to lose. It cannot happen by law, second casino bosses did not get to be bosses by accident. The big boys simply call the editors and whoevers else in involed and say we need you shills to say we lost so we get some cover in this tax debate cuz we aint paying one more dime or all of you will be looking for real work that goes for all you two bit pols and if you really wanna keep that home in summerlin you will toe the line or you will have to go live in that shack in your district now toe up or get ready of the unemployment line.
Being from Canada I thought you couldn't smoke in the casinos. Now I find that it's the only place you can smoke. Considering that I couldn't smell American cigarettes anywhere (yes your cigarettes smell different then Canadian) the last time I was on the casino floor, there is no risk for workers.
If I'm confused, it's no wonder the "clean air act" has made the sales go down; I can't be the only person. Wow smokers can go to 1 place to smoke, then have to go to certain hotels or outside to smoke. What an honour; people can stand out in either really warm or cold weather to smoke! I think it really doesn't matter that I can smoke in 1 place, I'll just stay home & invite people to my home still. I guess not everything stays in Vegas, certainly not my money.
"wow, the big bigger lie rolls on, first it is not possible for casinos to lose. It cannot happen by law, second casino bosses did not get to be bosses by accident."
If you talking about gambling games....then DUH!
If the gambling machines generated a net loss in cash then how could the casinos pay their bills or make a profit.
By law they must payback at least 75% of the cash intake back to the players. They can do that in one big jackpot to just one player or many lower payouts to many players. On average it is around 85% payback. Just a FYI, state lotto's payback is around 50%.
Gaming has been a con game since the being of time.
If you talk about casinos losing money then yes they can lose money. They have to pay for fix cost like buildings, interest on loans, etc. Plus they have to pay for operational cost like payroll, power bills, machine maintainance, etc.
If they do not have enough foot traffic then they might come up short on meeting fix cost plus operation cost. They could declared bankruptcy and try to get interest cost adjusted via the cost of the owners losing shares in the company. If they do not have enough foot traffic to met operation cost then they will go out of business once cash reserves are depleted.
The big casino corporations and most of the others gather business data and crunch those numbers via expensive data warehouse intelligence systems.
They already know if they adjust like comps or payback rates then they generally know it have this or that effect.
So some will increase comps and hope that enough foot traffic will come in to offset that cost.
Others will decrease comps and hope that foot traffic will not suffer that much.
They could explicitly coordinated those settings with competitors which is illegal.
Justme, Very intersting points you attempt to make. I will point out, just as IndianaDave did, that not all people are operating on borrowed money while in vegas. If we didn't have it we wouldn't come.
I think you need to realize what most gamblers want. We realize that more than likely we will come out on the short end of the stick in the long run. As my dad sais, "they don't build those places for free".
My wife and I enjoy our trips all over this country and have visited many amazing places. Our kids are raised, even though we are in our 40's, and we have no other hobbys. We don't fish, hunt, garden, collect art, or play golf. I have many friends that spend tons of money on these hobbies. We have made several casino trips this year and right now we are up about 15 grand. I am a realist and I know that the more trips we make the rest of this year that the odds of winning are going down.
We love good food, good entertainment, and good xxx. We are down to earth, not people of privilege, and we are easy to please. We realize that it is a form of entertainment.
On our last trip to vegas we felt like we were being fleeced from the beginning. I lost 350 dollars in two hours with no return. We rented a car and spent alot of the next 3 days playing tourist. We lost 2000.00 and really never got any playing money from the casinos. Just really felt that noone cared what kind of experience we were having. The reality is that we can get in the car this Friday and spend the night in Shreveport and we don't have to spend a grand on airfare. That is the problem that Vegas is going to face. People have to have a reason to come.
Best of luck to all and I hope they will wake up before Vegas changes forever.