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Johnny Avello, who heads the race and sports book at Wynn Las Vegas, says the flow of information on the Internet has aided bettors on the hunt for weak lines.
Wednesday, Sept. 23, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Lord of the Book
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Director of Wynn Las Vegas Race & Sports Johnny Avello talks to our own John Katsilometes about the ins and outs of sports betting in Las Vegas.
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The director of Wynn and Encore’s race and sports operations visited his first racetrack at age 5, bet with a bookmaker as a teen and played team sports through college. Johnny Avello, who dealt blackjack and sold insurance before becoming a ticket writer at the Sands in 1987, welcomes the beginning of football season — which accounts for more than 60 percent of race and sports bets on the Strip — like the beginning of the holiday season.
Are you much of a fan?
I’m a Mets and Giants fan from upstate New York. Truthfully, I do a lot more rooting for the house these days. This business isn’t about enjoying sports or having strong opinions about teams.
How is the betting traffic these days?
It’s about the same as it was a year ago. Sports betting is somewhat recession-proof. Some people struggling to make ends meet manage to find money to gamble on sports. Laying $10 on a parlay still has appeal even when things aren’t going well in people’s lives. It’s been that way in previous downturns.
Any new betting trends?
We’re all getting more creative, especially with proposition bets. It’s not just the Super Bowl anymore but a weekly thing at some places. Futures bets — like who’s going to win their division or championship — are also more popular. They’re good for the house and a better value for players than they used to be.
Has the proliferation of sports information on the Internet changed your business?
It’s great for the players and bad for the books. Sometimes players know things, like an injury and a coach’s strategy, before we do. That information was very difficult to get in the past. We put up a few hundred lines and there could be a couple of weak spots. We have to have the whole menu while players only have to bet one or two mistakes.
Do betting lines differ that much between properties?
After the first day, not much. We post our lines around 9 a.m. on Monday, while others may go up later that day. We eventually get pushed together by the bettors who gravitate toward lower or higher numbers. We use the same consultants and they’re not much different. We know what everyone else is doing, including the foreign and Web-based casinos.
Is horse racing a dying industry?
Our action is down about 15 percent from a year ago, which isn’t as much as some competitors’. There’s a lot of strategy to handicapping a race, while sports betting is quick and easy.
Can you write anything more boring?
They just can't admit that the odds online are much better than most sports books odds. Also, here's one little thing that I don't like: You can bet online and the odds you get when you confirm your bet stands. Last time when I was in Vegas , I put money on a box fight and a horse race. The odds shown at the time I bought my ticket were not the same when the match/race finally started. I think this is unfair for the bettor, and also bad for the industry. Why is that? Answer: Most bettors therefore have to wait till the very last minute before a race starts to have an idea what the odds more likely will be like. This results in high traffic at the counters at the very last moment and a lot of stress for nothing. It's ok for the bookies to change the odds, but only for new tickets issued. Wagers already placed should have odds as given, unchangeable! I think that's one of the reasons why people bet online these days. Think about.
From far away, but not from behind the moon: Switzerland
BorisR,
When they write your betting ticket, what the odds are when you bet is what you get paid off at. They can not and do not change your pay out odds once you have placed your bet. Nothing unfair to the bettor at all. You get the odds you pay for at the time.
Vegaslee-not in horse racing. BorisR has a good point. If you place a bet to win on a horse 10 minutes before post time-your actual odds on the bet fluctuate up until the race starts. The technology is there to lock in the exact odds the moment that you place your bet.
Vegaslee, good point, and thanks for correcting me. However, I learned that for some games / events the odds fluctuate till the very last moment. Horse racing and boxing are definetely not with fixed odds wheny ou buy the ticket. On the other hand, I can guarantee you that if you bet on Tennis online, for example Wimbledon 2010, picking the winner, you will paid then what the odds are today. If it turns out, however, that a player is not at his best shape 2 months before an event and takes a break, the odds will go up. And, if more and more people keep betting on Del Potro for instance, because they believe that he'll be the next tennis champion, online bet operators adjust the odds accordingly. However, your ticket stands, but new tickets have different odds.
There's a flip-side of the coin, though: In the example, betting on the Wimbledon 2010 champion, in case he can't play, these bets lose, even if the player does not start the tournament. Unlike in golf, where such bets are refunded, there's no refund on tennis bets.
Soccer is very popular for bettors in Europe, and online betting is a huge business here. There are professionals, just like in Vegas, checking out the web for better odds. Years ago, these bookies were not well-organized and odds would be different. Today, they must have a centralized odds-calculator, so most odds are more or less the same. Still, you can take advantage by early betting on the underdog and hedging the bet via live betting during the match. Those are things you just can't do in a Vegas sportsbook. And that's something I miss when I go sports betting in Vegas.
From Switzerland
I won big on Nadal 2007 and put a part of that money on Sharapova to win the 2007 US Open for the women tennis title. It turned out that Sharapova was unable to play at Flushing Meadows, and it was known before the tournament started. Still, the online bookie refused to return the bet amount to me, as it was clearly written in the rules and terms.
Live bets in Vegas have not always fixed odds, I think it's also not fixed on basketball bets, but maybe I am wrong on that. I never placed a tennis wager live in Vegas, but I noticed that the odds offered by the sports book were MUCH WORSE than the same bet on the player via my favorite online sportsbook. The juice these Vegas sportsbooks take is extreme. So, when they give you a generous "2 drinks at the bar" coupon, don't get too excited about it.
Almost all of horse betting in Las Vegas is pari-mutuel. Pari-mutuel means it doesn't matter if you place your bet at the track or in the sports book the money all goes into the same pool nationwide. When they post the results at the end of the race you'll see the dollar amount for win, place and show and it doesn't matter if you're in Vegas, New York or Idaho".the payout is the same. The exception to this is when a race & sports book posts odds for "house" bets. House bets are proposition bets that get locked into the odds at the time you buy the ticket and account for only a tiny percentage of race bets. They are usually quirkier type bets"examples: Will the winning horse have an odd or even numbered saddlecloth? Which team will win the coin toss at the start of the game? Which team will score first?
You mentioned above that you placed a bet on who will win Wimbledon 2010. This is another type of proposition bet called a "Future." All future bets get locked in on the odds at the time of purchase. I'm unsure what type of boxing bet you made that the odds changed; boxing bets also get locked in at the odds at the time of purchase. Is it possible you looked at the Xeroxed sheet in the sports book rather than the board? The betting sheets they have available in a race & sports book note what the odds were when the book opened in the morning and are only meant to be used as a guideline. In order to see the currents odds you have to look at the light boards above the ticket writer's station. Hope this helps.
LuvTheSun, thanks for your comments. You seem to be deep into this subject. You understand how it works, in detail :) Respect, man.
As for the horse race wager, I bet on this super race horse that soon later had to be killed due to some incident. Big Brown was the name of the horse, if I remember well. I placed that bet at the Golden Nugget Sportsbook and it was a ridiculous bet. I had to bet 30 dollars to win 6. Everybody was sure this horse would win, so I did it. The thing is that I did not know how much I would win till the race would start. Which was quite disappointing. Obviously this pari-mutual thing, you mentioned.
As for the box fight bet, this was at the Orleans. I was in the gym, sitting on a bicycle, when this boxer athlete entered the gym and I was impressed about his body and outfit. I decided to put 100 dollars on him, regardless. The guy in the sportsbook did only tell me the current odds but in the evening ( I went to play Poker at the Venetian), and when I returned, it turned out that I had lost my bet. The other guy beat my boxer :( I checked the odds on the sheet and remembered that it was different pay from what I saw earlier in the day. obviously, the odds changed as more and more people bet on the match. I didn't like this, although it didn't matter, as I lost anyway.
The only bet that stood (was locked in), that waws at the Red Rock when I had a Basketball Game bet, Lakers v/s the...I don't know. I had the other team as the spread looked ok for me. I think it was the Denver Nuggets , in Denver. My bet won and I won exactly what I had expected (110 for 100, of course). And I noticed that the spread or how you call it stood (was locked). Could it also be that the bookies change the spread?
Thanks for checking back ;)
Except for race bets, your odds and payoff are printed on your ticket.
Disagree. The boxing ticket had no odds on the ticked and the odds were floating till the fight would start. I only had the bet going for my boxer to win , but did not figure out how much I would win till it started.
What about basketball games? the point changes during the day before the game, and if somebody buys his ticket early, is the point given to him locked in? I mean, 110 for 100 and then to beat the point, from my point of view, this is already enough of a juice. Can it get any worse or will the points stay locked-in?
Only odds that keep moving are horse racing. That's true if you are at the track or not. Always has been, always will be. Here's a suggestion - learn what you are doing before betting and then you won't be disappointed.
here's my suggestion: don't even learn how to do sports betting. The house edge is killing everybody in the long run.... unless you have insider infos about the current status quo.
Check your ticket before you leave the window, if it's not what you wanted or expected, they'll fix it. But once you leave the window, that's it.
Sports tickets display your bet, and what it will be worth if the bet wins. More detailed information on the terms and conditions of your bet is usually available on posted notices in the sportsbook. If you have a question, ask.