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Friday, Jan. 16, 2009 | 2 a.m.
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So this is what happens when you call the governor an idiot?
He takes a look at your budget, cuts it by more than a third and leaves you as overseer of a mere shell of a system?
Of all the cliche-laden messages Gov. Jim Gibbons delivered Thursday night — times are tough, no time to raise taxes on people or businesses, state government must change — the most pointed one of all was the one-finger salute directed at Chancellor Jim Rogers. After a year of enduring Rogers’ derision and series of missives providing alternatives to gutting the higher education system, Gibbons showed Rogers, didn’t he?
He cut the system budget by 36 percent, which legislative analysts say can be extrapolated to about 50 percent cuts at the state’s two universities. “Why would anyone send a kid to a Nevada school now?” was a popular refrain in the Legislative Building.
Indeed, but that is synecdoche for the real conundrum facing the Gang of 63 after Gibbons’ address, which is this: “Why would anyone want to live in the state of Nevada?”
After Nevada’s years of languishing with bare-bones budgets in education, lower and higher, and lamenting how low we are in per-pupil funding, Gibbons accomplished the unimaginable: He made the situation worse.
A gutted higher education system, even lower per-pupil funding, and teachers — who make a relative pittance and pay for many supplies out of pocket — now having to absorb a 6 percent pay cut and slashes to their benefits sends a clear message: Go find a job where you are valued.
Democrats were distraught and almost punch-drunk when they saw the budget. But contrast that with the GOP types who went to the After Hours Legislative Building, aka Adele’s, and were heard celebrating the governor’s program and sneering at the Democrats. No new business taxes. Yippee! Again. Still.
How wonderful for these folks that they have found an empty vessel in Gibbons in which to pour all their noxious ideas about what makes a society great: The rich get richer — didn’t see much put on the miners or gamers or developers — and the poor get their pay cut. Nostrovia!
Gibbons didn’t just say no new taxes for the umpteenth time, either. He also declared no new tax structure, a preemptive strike against Assembly Speaker Barbara Buckley and Senate Majority Leader Steven Horsford. He did this, folks, while — inadvertently I assure you — making the case for a new tax structure.
“In fact, Nevada has actually fared worse in this national and worldwide economic crisis than many other states,” Gibbons said. “The combination of tight credit markets, sharp declines in discretionary spending and record-low consumer confidence has caused our two major industries, construction and tourism, to suffer drastic reductions. The numbers are daunting.”
By George, he’s got it. Too much reliance on gaming and sales taxes, so a third leg of the tax stool is needed.
And Gibbons’ solution? No third leg, but cut the legs out from education.
No new taxes! L’Chaim!
Of course there are tax increases in his budget. He talked about hewing to the Economic Forum’s projections but that’s not what his budget does. Indeed, there are about half a billion dollars of revenue above what the forum presented, about 60 percent of it from a room tax increase that passed in an advisory question in the state’s largest counties. Much of the rest comes from pilfering of local government revenue, which most people don’t understand is a simple shifting of holes from the state budget to the county budget.
And, don’t miss this, folks: This is being done disproportionately on the backs of Clark County taxpayers, who are losing $66 million to the state, with no guarantee that our Northern governor will redistribute it in the same proportion.
Depressingly, lawmakers don’t have any alternatives yet. The key to the session is the GOP caucus in the state Senate, where a majority of members are open to some quid pro quo if public employee benefit reform and accountability in education can be coupled with reasonable tax ideas.
Until then, the only proposal on the table is the governor’s cutting plan. So higher education is devastated, lower education falls further behind and teachers get to absorb a pay cut while mining, Big Business and gaming are held harmless? But at least Jim Gibbons showed Jim Rogers who’s boss.
Now that deserves a toast.
Can he be removed from office? This is not leadership. This clown is so empty on ideas that a monkey could do a better job.
"This clown is so empty on ideas that a monkey could do a better job."
Bush is available as of next week.
Stoopid is as stoopid does.
It is time for all of us to do some work.
Let's see who falls out of the sky and becomes a superstar!
It really is an opportunity for the legislators to become creative and innovative.
Now we get to see what Nevadans are really made of-can we find another way than "off with their heads?"
Mr. Ralston,
Couldn't have said it better myself. This state will never recover from this if it goes through.
Buckley and Horsford: Time to step up and show us what true leadership is.
A lot of folks are doing a lot of talking about the Nevada budget problems .. but ... These same people aren't offering any alternatives on how to deal with it ... other than tax and spend.
Regardless of what type of taxation we have there will always be peaks and valleys in the state coffers ... as evidenced by states that have a heavy tax load .. California?
Buckley punted.
She says they will study stuff.
Go study........
Rather than having two mediocre unfunded Universities, let's abandon UNLV (not even currently known for its academic rating) and consolidate the budgets into one outstanding university ("Nevada"). Then we can sell the UNLV property to the casinos and make enough to cover the deficit and more. See, Gov, no new taxes.
Selling off UNLV is the dumbest idea I've heard in awhile. That includes the girl last night wanting to get her boyfriend's name tattooed on her face.
In case you didn't notice nvnatv, UNR isn't higher than UNLV. In fact UNLV has a better law school (Boyd Law), a better nursing program, and a better hospitality college (Harrah's). Killing off UNLV would severely cripple the state's higher ed, and put it back by 50 years. Seriously, let's get rid of the university that supplies our teachers and serves over half the population of the state. I mean to put it another way, have you been drinking at 7 in the morning?
Can we just close the state for two years?
Seriously. Let's give them what they want. Let's cut all state taxes for the biennium, and close all state services. Completely.
What an interesting social experiment we would have! Give Gibbons, the buffoon from AD 26 and the rest of the libertarians what they want for a couple years and see where that gets them.
While I enjoyed redferret's sense of humor (laughter is the only tonic to this madness - thanks for keeping us sane), he is simply wrong to assert that UNLV is a better university than UNR:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...
Neither university is the top 50%, but UNR is at least "ok" in its ratings, while UNLV is just miserable.
Maybe the time has come to scale down operations at UNLV, perhaps turning it into a branch campus of UNR. The governor's cut for higher education will be partially alleviated by Obama's bailout and the democrats up in Carson City, but even with that assistance it may be time to confront the hard question: "Can Nevada afford to sustain TWO comperhensive public institutions of higher education?"
CSN - despite all of its corruption - obviously needs to exist.
Nevada State College in Henderson should be immediately de-funded and those resources transfered to CSN, Great Basin, and Truckee Meadows.
Hard times make for hard choices.
Jon Ralston
I dont know about the rest of you, but everyone that I talk to has had a major drop in income. The government should also bear their share. You cannot continue to tax our way out of this recession. The education system sucks and needs a major overhaul. The admistration dept needs to be cut drastically. Too many chiefs and not enough indians. The tax paid employees have to cut back like all of us.
Parsing through the budget numbers
Counting federal and other funds such as highway collections, Gibbons is presenting the 2009 Legislature with a $17.3 billion biennial budget or just 0.9 percent lower than the 2007-2009 fiscal year spending program.
Of the $17.3 million $6.17 million is for the Nevada executive budget.
The executive or general fund budget included $546 million in revenue increases like room taxes.
Gov. Kenny Guinn June 7, 2005, applauded the 121-day effort of the Nevada State Legislature, which approved the Governor's less than $6 billion executive budget and included passage of the Governor's $300 million rebate to the citizens of Nevada.
The 2007 Legislature approved a State General Fund operating budget for the 2007-2009 Biennium of approximately $6.8 billion. This was a huge 14% increase and was based on unsustainable revenue projections. Through a series of cuts the 2007-2009 has been reduced by more than $1 billion to less than $6 billion.
Thus the 2009-2010 $6.2 billion budget represents an increase from the current year working budget.
Nevada's population is static or declining so a growth in service is not needed.
Looks like the budget size is just right.
Future2012,
A couple of problems here.
One, you assume the cost of providing services hasn't gone up.
Two, you assume that the number of people seeking those services has remained static.
Neither is true.
Budget size is just right? All those cuts are OK?
Let's look at higher education for a second. Higher education received 19.5% of general fund expenditures for the 2007-2009 biennium.
In Jim "Education First!" Gibbons' budget plan, higher education is reduced to 13% of the general fund expenditures for the 2009-2011 biennium.
19.5% of 6.8 billion is 1.3 billion for higher education.
13% of 6.2 billion is 806 million for higher education.
Has enrollment at the state's colleges and universities fallen by 38%? No.
What about per-pupil spending for K-12? The right wingers around here love to throw out per capita tax collection, so let's use a similar measure for our students. With these cuts, per pupil spending in the state of Nevada will be the worst in the nation.
A man who ran on an oath to ignore potential solutions to our state's budget problems and on "Putting Education First!"
No, Governor, you've put education dead last.
Where is Buckley's plan?
She is hiding under a rock or something.
Oh.....she is studying.
You miss the point the actual budget is not the same as the approved budget two years ago.
You need to look at the real true actual working budget today to compare the delta.
The 14% budget increase approved two years ago was never acheivable. It was unrealistic, the revenue projection were bad, growth used in the projection have not become real.
Simply
2005-2007 Less than $6 Billion
2007-2009 Approved $6.8 Billion 14% increase
2007-2009 Actual as reduced Less than $6 billion
2009-2011 Proposed $6.2 Billion
On the contrary, you must take a look at what is requested to fully fund the system of higher education.
Gibbons' own proposed budget in 2007 requested 1.3 billion for higher education. That was his estimate of what the system would need to function.
Gibbons' new budget drastically reduces that amount to higher education. If higher ed was 19.5% of 6.8 billion in 2007, and is now 13% of 6.2 billion, do the math.
I will bet good money that Buckley's budget will include significant cuts for higher ed.
Here is a link to Buckley's plan.....www.i_am_hiding_under_a_rock.co...
I will bet good money that Buckley's budget will include significantly less cuts for higher ed. than Gibbons' budget.
Here is a link to Gibbons' plan... www.americasworstgovernor.com
I doubt that.
I am guessing that it will be less cuts but will still be significant cuts.
She can only provide so many new tax increases. They are job killers.
They do not want to cut salaries.
So she will left with cuts to do the rest. I am confident that she will protect k-12 over higher ed.
Her proposal will most likely include more government sector layoffs than Gibbon's plan.
I will bet that she will proposed a salary freeze.
Let's check her budget.
Here is the link again. www.i_am_under_a_rock.com
I am glad you agree with me, Buckley's plan will have significantly less cuts to higher education than Gibbons.
You can't find her plan? But you keep making random guesses as to what the plan will do. You said she doesn't want to cut salaries, will cut higher education more than K-12, will cut more government jobs and have a salary freeze.
But you haven't even seen her plan yet.
Is that what your crystal ball is telling you?
Or is it the tea leaves this time?
She has no plan.
She has no clue.
She is clueless.
She is studying the Gibbon's plan to find some clues on what to do.
Your hero, Buckley, is hiding under a rock.
"She has no plan."
And yet you keep telling us all about what she will be doing.
Must be those tea leaves.
You are right she has no plan.
She is totally dependent on the governor for wisdom and guidance.
If she had a clue on what to do then surely she would have presented.
She is not some fearful little bug hiding under the rocks.
So she is studying and studying hard Gibbon's plan for direction.
If she had a plan that had no cuts and big tax increases than she would have slammed into Gibbon's face.
Nope....no plan and no clue and hiding under the rocks.
Gibbon's presented his plan. It prevents massive layoffs in the government sector. Sounds like a good plan to me.
It is good that Buckley is studying his plan for guidance and wisdom.
Actually, "She has no plan" was a quote from you, it wasn't my characterization, nor my belief. You claim an agreement that I never stipulated.
In her speech, as well as her interview with Ralston last night, she made it clear she is evaluating ideas and has some guidelines in mind.
See, unlike the Governor, whose job it is to present a budget, she is going to be doing the Governor's job for him. Actually, Andrew Clinger's job for him, since the Governor didn't know, as of this week, how many jobs would be lost by his own budget.
That points out a pretty important distinction between the two: Gibbons has paid staff whose job is to craft the budget. Buckley has no such luxury.
I don't mind giving her some more time to get to specifics. She has to reach out to the Republicans in the Legislature and find middle ground. The Democrats cannot override a gubernatorial veto by themselves.
But even during her brief speech, Buckley proved a grasp of the issues Gibbons seems unable to consider.
Actually, if Buckley's plan gets passed, it would be nice for the Governor to throw her some cash, since he's getting paid six figures to stand around and wait for the legislature to show leadership.
Your partisan wild guessing as to her plan is very funny, though. "It's gonna do this! It's gonna do that!" Just goes to show you have no clue.
"She has no plan" was a quote from you, it wasn't my characterization, nor my belief"
So she is hiding this plan that you believe she has.
It must be next to her under the rock that she is hiding.
Here is the link: www.i_am_hiding_under_a_rock.com
"which legislative analysts say can be extrapolated to about 50 percent cuts at the state's two universities. "
Come on we all know this is BS.
They "extrapolate" this number by assuming no other universities beside UNLV and UNR and assume no other university revenue sources other than the state. These are big ifs.
The 50% number is utter garbage.
John F,
The cost of providing services doesn't go up, it goes down - for everyone but government. The reason why cost goes up for government is because they have no incentive to keep it down.
This is why the 2009-2011 budget will be 9% larger than the 2005-2007 budget and people will still complain. 9% is much smaller than the 20% increase they want.
KSAN99
TOtal appropriations from the Governors budget to higher education will be $1.24 billion. This is down from $1.79 billion.
An idiot like gibbons is what you get when you have an economy that has always depended upon the stupidity of strangers.......ANY state legislator who votes to take one penny from education in this state is one who will NEVER get my vote.
kdr81: "figures don't lie, . . . ." Inthe four years since the 2005 budget, enrollment is much higher so your numbers are not apples to apples. The bottom line is not "effeciency" in governmental services. Effeciency requires investment in the future, something private businesses make but something that the taxpayers of Nevada run from. No one believes that gov't can, in reality be as effecient as private enterprise while shrinking funding.
The problem is that only those that are selfish and/or short sighted believe that Nevada is better off shrinking public eduction and other state services, while funding what's left on the backs of the teachers (who are already underpaid) and other state employees. If this budget were to pass, the number of state employees who will leave Nevada and further shrink the tax base is far greater than the job losses which might result from rationally designed tax increases that focus on those that can afford it. But then you'd have pay your share and you will say/do anything to keep those extra dollars in your pockent won't you!
Instead of cutting salaries and the education budget, why don't we cut out the housing allowances, car allowances, free cell phones, private jets, and unlimited budget accounts for all the muckity mucks who make over $100,000 a year from the state.
All of us regular people who make a lot less than that have to pay for all these things out of our salaries, so why shouldn't they have to too? And while we are at it, let's turn the governor's mansion into a hotel and make some money from it too?
Think of all the money we could save the state budget if we just did those things.
Oh, and all those business who work out of the state of Nevada and who don't pay taxes, they should be made to pay their fair share of taxes along with back taxes for all the billions that they have made off of us for years. You know who you are.
Jon R:
I don't get to see your show often enough and when I have seen it, you seem to be very unbiased in your questions. And I find it hard to be complimentary to someone who is unbiased in the face of narrow minded politicians who practice simplistic demagoguery as divisive measure.
To anyone who can think, gibbon [sic] is not against all new taxes, he's against new taxes for his consituency which happens to exclude the state workers whose personal income he proposes to tax at 6% without benefit of any deductions.
And has anyone noticed that the governor has given Rory the uneviable task of replacing $66M during the election cycle in which he will run agains gibbon [sic]. Too bad no one from Washoe is likely to run or Clark county might have been spared a portion of this burden!
Magic: Words like that will make the right accuse you of being in favor of 'income redistrution' and label you a socialist. In the Nevada of 1980, your words would have been viewed as heresy. Maybe they won't be today.
Nance thinks he knows everything about American Government, when in reality most issues just swoosh over his head.
He believes that Buckley and the Dems should have looked at the $6 billon budget Gibbons released yesterday and instantly provide an alternative.
Taking a few days to evaluate an enormous budget and then come up with changes is "hiding under a rock" in his view. Too bad they aren't psychic.
Why don't we, the people of this Great State, cut Gibbons wage permanently... Sounds like a good idea to me?
You give nance too much credit. He only knows his pocket. The rest is rationale. And not very well written at that.
Impeachment isn't all that practical. Besides, who wants Krolicki in that chair? Reality is that if a couple of Republicans in the senate can vote rationally, gibbon [sic] is irrelevant.
So lets hope we see a couple of rational republicans this leg session.
TAX the mining companies, the WalMarts, the McDonald's, all the big corps that are making of Nevada a tax haven for them. This does not benefit our state at all. KDR and jfnance, don't you guys understand that the little-government, no-regulation, tax-breaks-for-the-rich policies have taken us into this deep recession we are in now?? And you want more of that??? WHAT ARE YOU GUYS SMOKING??? Radioactive manure???
and you know what, Jon? he'll get re-elected because the voters elected him on a no-new-taxes promise and he's keeping it. bully for him, I say. I know he's got my vote as long as he keeps his pledge.
TGin, are you part of the -2% who approves of Gibbons' administration?
Interesting how odog and JFNancy are becoming RIGHT WING SOCIAlISTS. Because some sectors are laying off we must all, as in a good socialist model, take cuts.
Obama shared his toys in kindergarten and you right wing nuts call him a socialist - now you are screaming for socialism.
Amusing these republicans are!
"rational republicans"
An oxymoron.
I just want to know - how much did Gibbons cut his own salary by? Oh, he didn't ? How typical.
In Gibbon's budget, he is taking the same pay cut as the other state workers.
Gibbons ran a petition to "put education first" in order to get elected. After he got elected, he showed that he is not a statesman, but an opportunist politician by putting education last. Not investing in education is very short-sighted because it will have long-term effects on the viability of our state's economy as our brightest students, teachers, and professors leave the state for elsewhere. Once they leave, they will not come back. Any long term diversification strategy will be doomed. We will also not be able to recruit the best and brightest from other states to come here if we have a miserable education system.
It is time to impeach Gibbons. He has shown a total lack of leadership and vision.
Why don't you ask the Chancellor about the pay increases that his professional staff is getting beginning January 1st? Maybe the governor knows about this? Hummmm.
Below is a link to a petition to recall Governor Gibbons. Please sign it and send it on to all you know.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/recall-...
By working together, we can fix this.
For God Sake Gibbons! What do you do??!! Fire him!
perhaps more taxes--
because this just cannot happen to education!
Those suggesting to just cut UNLV and keep UNR have no idea what they are talking about. UNLV is better than or equel to UNR in every sense. Someone cited US News and World report rankings. Go look at what those rankings are based on. They are very subjective, and if you think USN&WR gives a crap about nevada higher education you are wrong. They just put out basically the same ranking every year. They take no time to really evaluate what is going on with Nevada's Universities. The only reason UNLV has moved up at all recently is because they couldn't ignore the progress it has been making. UNLV has 10,000 more students than UNR, and more recognized programs. If you go across the country and ask someone to name a university in Nevada 95% will name UNLV. The only place that UNLV has a bad reputation is in the state of Nevada. Everywhere else it is thought very highly of, and UNR, if they even know it exsists, is thought of as mediocre at best. UNR has reached its celling while UNLV is still progressing rapidly despite the huge lack of support from the state. If anything it is time to abondon that sinking "flagship" in Reno and start focusing on the University that is actually making progress.
I agree with Gibbons, UNLV could withstand a 50% cut and be fine. The Professors in the sciences for example teach just 1 lecture class a semester. Thats less than 3 hours of teaching per week. They then hire extra part time instructors to teach other classes. Most of them are lazy. Make them teach 4-5 classes a semester. For an experienced Professor class prep time amounts to very little once they have taught the class already. They will try to tell you that they do research. But basically its just an excuse not to work. For example look at Life Sciences, they try to tell you that they will solve the worlds problems by looking at fruit flies!! So go ahead Gibbons cut the budget and make these lazy Professors earn their dough
This is the most ridiculous path the Governor is proposing, I can't understand why he continues to put these percentages out there without the final tally.
With a 6% pay cut and the subsidiary cuts to the health plan this equals about a 12% pay cut from every classified state employee.
I don't know what the percentages are for each of the pay grades for the typical state employee but the salary range is somewhere between $24,888-$56.626.56.
When you compare the salary range to other government agencies this is also much lower than city and county employees.
In many cases we are preforming the exact same job duties and responsibilities as our neighboring employees.
I do agree something needs to be done and the situation addressed but I also feel that singling out only the state agencies is not a good idea and certainly does raise the question if this is even legal.
It also seems so unfair that the State Agencies are possibly suffering the consequences of the Jim Gibbons Jim Rogers dog and pony show.
And if I had to pick one or the other to be the Boss, I think I would pick Jim Rodgers. The impact to our Educational System will have devastating impacts on Las Vegas immediately and very far into the future, I don't think many people realize the snowball effect this will have on our local economy.
We think it's bad now,
I don't think we've seen nothinin yet ) :
Dear Pyloric66
Clearly, you do not understand or are not aware of the difference between a "teaching" university and a "research" university. At a teaching university, professors teach about 4 classes per semester. However, they also have smaller classes and a much much lighter research requirement in order to keep their job. Both UNLV and UNR are research universities. This means that professors teach fewer classes per semester, but they also have an heavier research requirement as part of their job.
Now you might be saying: "Why should we have professors doing research? This doesn't benefit our students at all!" But, in fact, having professors who are required to do significant amounts of research is very beneficial to our students. Not only do they get professors who are doing cutting edge research and so are receiving the most up-to-date education they can get, but it is also very often that the students themselves get to assist in the research, often getting a chance to do a smaller project of their own. These projects are often published or presented at professional meetings by the students themselves. Doing is the best way to learn.
And as far as being lazy, I can only speak for me and members of my department. I work every weekday from 9 to 5, except on Mondays and Wednesdays when I work until 8pm. I also work every Saturday from about 10 am until at least 1pm but most often it is 3 or 5pm. Most of my colleagues work something like that much. I doubt that in anyone's eyes that qualifies as lazy.
In conclusion,if UNLV's and UNR's budgets are cut by 50% it IS the students who will suffer. The best professors will look for places to work where they can continue to do the research UNLV or UNR hired them to do and so will not be teaching our students. And the students will lose opportunities to conduct their own research.
If research is "just an excuse not to work," I'm sure putting a lot of hours in!
Pyloric66
I am guessing that you failed a class at UNLV and have a ax to grind. The concept that professors in science do not teach enough is not founded in fact. It belies your ingnorance of what the job entails and echos the statements that we hear from people who value education only when they are getting what they want. I challenge you to find any other university that has science professors that teach the number of classes you are suggesting. Research would never get done and graduate students would not be mentored with your plan. The concept of a diversified economy that does not rely on hospitality is founded in education. Specifically, education in the sciences and engineering play the largest role. These two disciplines provide the vast amount of technological breakthroughs that are required for alternative energy, advances in medicine, and new materials that are useful for a variety of applications. Do you use a cell phone, a computer, drive a car? Well you have benefited from the fat cat professors you are mocking. So please go educate yourself before you spill the nonsense that you wrote here.
While I agree with what you say about research, I don't exactly agree that we only need to keep the sciences and engineering. The social sciences, humanities, the arts are also extremely important to diversifying our economy.
gazania,
I did not mean to imply that. I agree with everything you said previously and was trying to make a point specifically with regard to the sciences and engineering because that is what I am most familiar with. The university as an entity is extremely important and the concept of a well rounded education includes many disciplines. So I appologize for my narrow definition.
A statewide cut off 50% will decimate the education system. It appears that some of our readers have no idea how a research university functions. Faculty and students have to carry out state-of-art research which requires long hours of experimentation and grant writing. Federal grant money is in short supply. However, further investigation of many graduate-degree granting departments at UNLV and UNR shows the faculty are bringing in multi-million dollar grants. The findings of this research, be in on flies, humans, or machines, improves the life not of Nevadans, not Americans, but everyone on this planet. I suggest some of our readers should gather their facts and make well informed statements, rather than reporting unsubstantiated claims.
Sorry guys, guess I just saw it from a freshmans students perspective. Didn't know what whent on behind the scenes. Guess I should be more appreciative of your efforts :)
Is the 6% pay cut for all public employees (including UNLV professional staff) or only for CCSD teachers?
Vegasboy,
It's for all state employees which include all teachers of all schools who are payed by the state and all other state employees. It does not include city, county, or any other workers in the state of Nevada.