Teacher’s Holocaust remarks spur probe
State law bans district from firing her, however, if she has no previous misconduct
Tuesday, Dec. 29, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Sun Archives
- Report: Vegas teacher accused of denying Holocaust (12-19-2009)
- ACLU airs free speech concerns on bias policy (4-25-2009)
- Exoneration sought for UNLV professor (2-21-2005)
Sun Coverage
A high school physical education teacher’s controversial comments to her students that reportedly disputed historical details of the Holocaust might not trigger her firing because state law requires one reprieve for professional misconduct.
Lori Sublette, who teaches physical education at Northwest Career and Technical Academy, is under investigation by the district for allegedly telling students that the Nazis lacked the technological capability to kill millions of Jews during World War II.
State law allows teachers to be terminated outright only for a handful of the most serious offenses, including felony convictions for sex and drug related crimes and moral turpitude.
When it comes to the broader category of “unprofessional conduct” — such as straying from the required curriculum, as Sublette appears to have done — the district has less leeway.
A Nevada statute from 1967 prevents a teacher from being fired for unprofessional conduct unless there is a prior admonition in teacher’s file for a similar offense.
“Everyone gets one bite at the apple,” says Bill Hoffman, senior counsel for the Clark County School District. “The law is very protective of teachers. They must be given a chance to correct their behavior.”
Sublette could not be reached for comment.
Keith Rheault, Nevada’s superintendent of public instruction, says “it is incredibly difficult to fire a teacher outright for almost anything less than a felony.”
Such policies that make firing difficult are standard in other states, Rheault says.
Additionally in Nevada, if a teacher satisfactorily corrects his misconduct, the formal admonition will be removed from the permanent employment file after three years.
Rheault said he understands the reasoning for the three-year window, noting that people can sometimes have their criminal records expunged of minor drug-related offenses provided they complete treatment and stay out of trouble.
However, when it comes to matters of professional misconduct, Rheault says he’s less willing to be generous.
“In my view if you’ve done it, you’ve done it,” Rheault says. “It should stay in the file.”
The district negotiated with the teachers union to tweak the three-year provision, requiring that an employee make a formal request to have the admonition removed, Hoffman said. And even if the admonition is expunged, the original employee evaluation that detailed the problem remains in the permanent file, Hoffman says.
District officials wouldn’t say whether Sublette, who has taught physical education in Clark County since 2001, has any admonitions in her file. Regulations put in place by the Clark County School Board make all personnel files, including discipline records, confidential. However, Hoffman says, the law is also clear that a teacher’s job is to teach the curriculum set by state standards, and lesson plans are reviewed by school administration.
“As a general rule, a teacher’s freedom of speech is pretty limited,” Hoffman says.
Situations such as the one involving Sublette are unusual in the district, Hoffman says, adding “most teachers understand their role.”
Sublette, who has a bachelor’s degree in kinesiology from the University of Washington and a master’s degree from Grand Canyon University, allegedly made her comments about the Holocaust during a mentoring class, which are weekly sessions taught by all of the school’s faculty to help students with life skills they’ll need after graduation.
On Dec. 17, the district reassigned Sublette from the classroom to her home, where she is allowed to work on assignments. She will continue to receive her full salary and benefits pending the outcome of the district’s investigation.
The district has more than 18,000 licensed employees. In 2008-09, 93 were dismissed by the district for various reasons. Since August, the district has dismissed another nine teachers.
Democrat Assemblyman Richard “Tick” Segerblom, an attorney who specializes in employee rights cases and has represented a number of School District employees, says it’s only fair to give people a chance to fix their mistakes.
“Nobody is perfect,” Segerblom says. “Termination should be used only for the most serious offenses or a pattern of behavior after an employee shows that it can’t be corrected.”
Ruben Murillo, president of the Clark County Education Association, says there are occasional requests from members for support after being notified by their administrators that they have strayed from curriculum guidelines.
“We strongly recommend to teachers, especially when talking with students about subjects outside of your content area, to watch what you say,” Murillo says. “Keep the discussions focused on the lesson at hand.”
The topic of the Holocaust — the Nazis’ World War II-era systemic extermination of an estimated 6 million Jews as well as millions of other so-called “undesirables” — isn’t automatically controversial, Murillo says.
“It’s historical fact, and students should learn about it in the appropriate academic settings,” Murillo says. “But how it relates to a conversation in gym class baffles me.”
He agrees with the district’s response to Sublette’s comments and the campuswide fallout, including to bringing in Holocaust educators to talk about the issue with students at the school. Some of those opportunities have been pared down districtwide because of reductions in state funding, which included money for Holocaust education programs.
“Whenever it’s appropriate, and with the approval of the district, we encourage teachers to make use of community resources to support instruction,” Murillo says. “It’s unfortunate this type of situation had to happen for those kinds of opportunities to take place at Northwest CTA.”
Sublette’s comments likely don’t pass the free speech litmus test, said Allen Lichtenstein, attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada. Her remarks “had really nothing to do with the class, the curriculum or any area of the teacher’s expertise,” Lichtenstein says.
As an individual in a public forum, “she certainly has a right to her opinion and to voice her opinions,” Lichtenstein says. “But if one thing is clear, it’s that the school and the school district have the right to control the curriculum.”
In 2005 the Nevada ACLU vigorously defended UNLV economics professor Hans-Hermann Hoppe, who allegedly made offensive comments about gays. During a lecture, Hoppe told his class that homosexuals were less likely to save money than heterosexuals because they do not have children, and live riskier lifestyles. After a student complained to university administration, Hoppe received a written reprimand, but it was removed at the behest of then-chancellor Jim Rogers (who later paid for a conference on academic freedom at the Boyd School of Law).
Hoppe’s situation differs from Sublette’s in several key areas, Lichtenstein says.
The limits on a teacher’s speech at the K-12 level are far greater than a university professor addressing an older audience. Additionally, Hoppe’s comments stemmed from his own area of expertise and independent research that, while controversial, were made within the context of the day’s lesson.
“It might not have been a sentiment that everyone agrees with, but it was clearly an academic exercise,” Lichtenstein says. “In the other teacher’s (Sublette’s) case, those were inappropriate comments she should have had the good sense not to have made.”
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This 42 year law needs to be taken off the books and replaced with dismissal for unprofessional conduct. This is horrible, what is a high school physical education teacher can teach our kids " The Holocaust " and that preposterous Nazis, Lacked the technological capability to kill millions of Jews during World War II. Please my Grandfather was over there in WWII and he told all of us kids what had happen, and what he had saw, so take this law off the books of 42 years. And tell teachers teach what you are paid for if "YOU ARE A PE TEACHER THEN TEACH PE" . I would fine a way to punish Lori Sublette she would no longer be a teacher I would make her a janitor. Thank you all
No different than the hundreds of weird ideas put out on talk radio at a national and local level. Limpbaugh was comparing Obama with Pol Pot a couple of weeks ago.
Some examples of local talk radio's gems of wisdom:
Obama is a communist.
John Kerry committed treason.
The US won the war in Vietnam.
WMD was found in Iraq.
Obama is going to send troops to Darfur.
Soy is bad for people's health.
Mexican radical groups set California forest fires.
A college degree does not have an impact on gross lifetime income.
the holocaust was horrific...
without question...
perhaps exceeded only by slavery in terms of horror...
but...
it was a long time ago...
several generations ago...
is it not time to let it go???
is it not time to stop obsessing over it???
let's move on...
shall we...
did anyone catch the senior senator from israel...
joe lieberman...
on the sunday morning talk shows...
arguing for the invasion of yemen...
has not enough american blood and treasure already been spent fighting israel's battles against israel's enemies???
What is more dangerous for the average American? Terrorism or an uninsured person with a preexisting medical condition?
There over here because were over there.
What would the country do without chicken hawks like Sean Insannity and Joe Lieberman?
Our main WWII ally was the Soviet Union (they killed 4 out of 5 German troops) hoe main people did the kill in the 20's and 30's??
The USA also signed a treaty with Vichy France, which had all sorts of anti-Semite laws on the books at the time.
After WWII, the US looked the other way in many cases as the Catholic Church ran the "ratline" -allowing many "war criminals" to escape to South America.
The US had a military post war alliance with Franco Spain, one of the 3 European Fascist powers: Italy, Germany and Spain.
People with their "holier than thou" attitudes and "comic book" understanding of history, should not through stones.
Because of the narrow-minded attitudes, the conversation was probably take out of context.
@ emvance - I'm surprised that your grandfather said anything at all. My grandfather was there in WWII as well, but he did not relay what had happened to any of us, it was too disturbing for him to repeat.
@ mred - for once I didn't recoil at your post. I couldn't agree more, this time.
There over here because were over there???
GrandmaCrabby is right, we needs to remember the atrocities and work to see it never happens again. There isn't anything mred says that changes that or changes the fact that a teacher can be disciplined for teaching outside the curriculum.
could you imagine if joe "the senior senator from israel" lieberman had been elected vice president...
and something had happened to gore...
good god...
we would have invaded half of the middle east...
what a joke...
he supported mccain becuase he wants to invade iran...
he now wants to invade yemen...
beware boys and girls...
some of our jewish politicians have clearly placed israel's best interests ahead of america's...
that is wrong...
that must end...
"is it not time to let it go???
is it not time to stop obsessing over it???
let's move on...
shall we..."
Those who forget history are destined to repeat it.
The fact of the matter is that Hitler et al were amatuers in comparison to the Stalin and Mao gangs. Remember the past but focus on the present and plan for future.
P.S. Goodbye Uncle Harry!
"The Peaceful & Loving Palestinians people are being murdered daily by the terrorist make-believe nation of Israel!"
Yeah those jewish suicide bombers are really causing delays at the airports.
are our jewish friends trying to use guilt to keep public sympathy high and american blood and treasure flowing for the benefit of israel???
it was a long, long time ago...
it was horrible...
get over it...
move on...
and oh by the way...
just in case you forgot...
america defeated the nazis...
"State law allows teachers to be terminated outright only for a handful of the most serious offenses, including felony convictions for sex and drug related crimes and moral turpitude."
This article shows "moral turpitude" is a felony?? Very stupid law.
IF this teacher said something along these lines, so what. If the school -- or anyone else -- has a problem with a teacher teaching, and her job is at stake, they had better tighten up the laws and contracts for something better than vague offenses like "moral turpitude" and "professional behavior." Students should be taught to debate both sides of any issue to learn the difference between truth and opinions, even sacred cows like this one.
mikegino -- you beat me to punch. Check out the Guiness Book of World Records. Hitler was only #3 for mass murders. Mao was #1. Yet Nixon praised him at his death. And we've made the nation he founded, and still governed by his ideals, very prosperous while still denying even travel to Cuba. How hypocritical is that?
"...a holocaust denier has no place spreading anti-semitic ideas in a public school."
GrandmaCrabby -- nothing in this article even remotely suggests this teacher was "a holocaust denier." That and your failed attempt at showing off the robust intellect you don't have should make you reconsider your lame posts here.
rejco100 -- you should get your historic facts straight. There's plenty of ethnic cleansings in our own time without making one up.
Killer: we are a hypocritical species.
It is absurd to pretend that a teacher who has probably 150 to 200 students will never talk about anything outside of the PE curriculum.
This is one of the most basic problems of the school system: it operates on pretense and nonsense and happy talk and pie in the sky.
Contrary to popular belief, teachers can be gotten rid of. There are so many guidelines and rules and obligations for teachers that any teacher could be admonished for something. That's how they do get rid of teachers - make the standards of the job impossible, and then, if they want you out, ride you until you quit. If that doesn't happen, they start writing down all the little things you are lacking in, and eventually you're out. Yes, folks, it can be done, and it is done, because the standards of the job are impossible - one of the reasons the job is not great.
As for Sublette, as I've said before, a combination of poor pay and working conditions does not attract the best and brightest.
a probe...
are you kidding me...
a probe...
is there possibly a greater waste of taxpayer dollars???
is the district attorney getting involved???
talk about a mountain out of a mole hill...
what a joke!!!
Michael... Ain't that the truth; proved in spades on these pages daily.
Killer; Lay off Gramma, she's got a right to post, same as you, and "lame" is not the appropriate word to use to denegrate her opinions. I find them full of common sense, typically.
is the outrage expressed toward this teacher designed to keep public sympathy high and american blood and treasure flowing for the benefit of israel...
hmmm...
we have been fighting the war on terror for over 8 years now...
let's check the score board...
shall we...
let's see who is winning...
america...
please...
over 4,250 dead...
over $2 trillion wasted...
that's trillion with a "t"...
started a war based on lies...
world wide reputation ruined...
america is a big big loser in these wars...
iraq...
please...
over 100,000 innocent civilians killed...
nuff said...
iraq is a big big loser in these wars...
afghanistan...
please...
they were ruled by war lords before...
they are ruled by war lords today...
the government is still corrupt, irrelevant and a joke...
same old same old...
afghanistan is a push in these wars...
israel...
bingo...
we have a winner...
winner winner chicken dinner...
israel is at the heart of radical islam's hatred of the west...
arab land was taken to create israel...
arabs want their land back...
arab's hate the fact that america provides essentially unconditional support for israel...
and low and behold...
america is fighting israel's battles against israel's mortal enemies...
now listen up boys and girls...
this is the key....
these battles are being fought with american blood and treasure...
hello...
israel's enemies are being fought by americans with american blood and treasure...
hello...
we have a winner...
the undisputed winner of these wars is the state of israel...
period...
end of story...
critical questions...
did richard perle, paul wolfowitz, doug feith, henry kissinger and other jewish americans know that israel would be the winner all along and is that why they argued for the invasion of iraq almost immediately after 9/11???
does joe "the senior senator from israel" lieberman care more about israel than he does about america???
will america eventually go broke if they are the only country in the world fighting this battle???
how many more brave young americans must die???
"Killer: we are a hypocritical species."
mikegino -- and bless us all every one for that. Until human society becomes more of a hive than a herd I'll embrace individuality!
gmag -- no.
"started a war based on lies..."
Biride...the war was started by your beloved muslims on 9/11. We went into Iraq after Sadam kicked out the UN inspectors.
Clearly you are a nut case.
hey noindex...
you are dead wrong...
we went to war in iraq because w the scum bag liar loser clown and cheney the evil doer lied to the american public...
they told america that saddam had wmd...
well guess what skippy...
he did not...
remember w the scum bag liar loser clown's state of the union address...
"aluminum tubes out of africa"...
a fabricated story planted by cheney the evil doer to a ny times reporter...
you are dead wrong...
answer me this skippy...
why on god's green earth was richard perle...
chairman of the defense policy advisory board...
arguing for the invasion of iraq on 9/12...
9/12...
the dust had literally not settled on ground zero on 9/12...
yet a jewish public official was in the oval office arguing for the invasion of iraq...
why...
hmmm...
i'll tell you boys and girls...
because he wanted american blood and treasure to be used to fight israel's battles against israel's enemies...
sadly many jewish american public officials put israel's best interest ahead of america's...
to them there is no limit to the amount of american blood and treasure we can waste fighting israel's battles against israel's enemies...
consider joe "the senior senator from israel" lieberman...
he now wants america to invade yemen...
are you kidding me...
enough is enough...
this must end...
now...
Several years ago I read that the Jews and Kurds have the same DNA. Is this blasphemy?
How many Persians did the Mongols kill? I recall reading that there are still mounds of skulls numbering in the hundreds of thousands dating from the Mongol conquests.
When you get down to it in our litigious society, almost everything is offensive to someone and they're willing to "take it to the next level." Just look at rejco and birdie. It seems these two are competing for the most "Comment removed by staff" posts on these forums. LOL.
I don't claim to understand how a PE teacher could work that into a lesson, but I'm guessing it was also taken out of context to sound worse. Just a guess.
Anyway, I don't think there's an issue with checks and balances. The old law seems fine. Give the teacher one mistake and then the chance to fix it. After that, dismissal.
But the notion of policing teachers for their comments seems like a horrific thing. What happened to professional accountability? Maybe if teachers were paid a salary that drew professionals from other fields, the inherent job demand would allow the professionals to police themselves (rather than institute a centralized control mechanism from the district).
I cringe more and more as people wholeheartedly accept/endorse/promote the censorship of teachers under the guise of "sticking to the curriculum." They should be responsible, but sometimes the truth is unfavorable (which is NOT the point of this article, I admit).
Did the teacher bring up the Holocaust or was it students and the teacher tried to get control of the discussions? Did she state her opinion or that there are contrary opinions and that students should investigate themselves?
What were the context of the comments? Did the teacher tell students to be critical thinkers and to examine news reports skeptically (which by the way would fall within the guidelines for the Advocacy class goal "to help students with life skills they'll need after graduation)?
The answer is that the writer of the article has absolutely no idea what was stated and is asking people who also have no knowledge of what was stated to respond to rumour, 4th hand hearsay and innuendo, going so far as to see if this teacher can be fired based on the rumors. Mr. Lichtenstein, you have no idea what this teacher stated or believes. For an advocate of diversity of opinions and thought, you certainly are quick to not advocate for this teacher to be given a fair process before being publicly crucified. Shameful.
There were 17 students present and only 1 student has come out with the interpretation stated above or that other students who were present came to this teacher's defense and refuted the version stated above? The rumor is being printed as fact; the contrary statements are ignored.
As a sure sign of the lunacy of rumor is the comment by the CCEA Representative "But how it relates to a conversation in gym class baffles me." The reason you are baffled is that you are flat wrong. It did not occur in a gym class. But why not perpetuate wrong facts which are presumed to be true because they have been repeated so many times that they are becoming accepted as fact. This seems to have been the context of the teacher's comments: Just because facts are repeated and engrained, question the facts and reach your own conclusion.
Grandma Crabby: Wow you labeled this teacher a Holocaust Denier when not a single statement attributed to this teacher (let alone proven to have been said) states that she denied that there were camps in which millions of Jews died. Nothing in this article or any other has ever stated that this teacher was a Holocaust Denier. Nothing in this article (or any other) contains any commentary against Jews or expressing anti-semitic statements. None.
Ms. Richmond, why would we even be inquiring about firing this teacher until CCSD has conducted its investigation. Have you inquired of CCSD as to whether the reason this teacher is not responding is whether she has been asked by CCSD representatives to not speak to you?
Many are commenting on this story based on what was perceived to have been said. The irony in this situation is that we are so quick to persecute that we are willing to exterminate anyone might not appear to conform, even if we do not know all of the facts. Not certain where we might might a historical analog but perhaps we all might learn from those events.
awe...
i was just getting started grandma...
and you had to run...
boo hoo hoo...
bottom line...
there were no wmd in iraq...
period...
end of story...
w the scum bag liar loser clown and cheney the evil doer...
with the help of jewish american public officials like richard perle, paul wolfowitz, doug feith, and henry kissinger...
who wanted to use american blood and treasure to fight israel's battles against israel's enemies...
started a war based on lies...
period...
end of story...
answer me this...
have not enough taxpayer dollars been flushed down that cess pool known as the middle east...
have not enough brave young american soldiers died...
enough is enough...
sadly though...
for some jewish american politicians like joe "the senior senator from israel" lieberman...
too much is never enough...
israel matters more than america...
and make no mistake boys and girls...
that's what making a big deal out of this teacher is all about...
keeping public sympathy high for jewish folks...
and keeping american blood and treasure flowing to israel...
sad...
truly sad...
this must end...
now...
Nevermind what was said, the real issue at hand is whether the law is reasonable or not.
On the surface, such a law that gives everyone "... one bite at the apple" seems reasonable to me when it comes to dealing with correctable offenses such as this.
The trick is determining which offenses should fall under this law as opposed to being one-strikers such as sex-related ones. And in those cases it *must* be proven beyond a doubt, i.e. a criminal conviction, not just an accusation.
any truth to the rumor that a teacher was overheard saying something to the effect that chairman mao never hurt a soul???
omg...
can you believe it...
the humanity...
let's launch a probe...
taxpayer dollars be damned...
get the district attorney involved...
get the attorney general involved...
and if this rumored teacher is found to have denied the actions of chairmen mao ...
let's drag her up and down the strip...
naked...
then give her forty lashes...
then put her in jail...
and make sure we have lots of press coverage...
that's the point isn't it...
and when that is all done...
let's invade china...
we need to waste even more american blood and treasure...
a few more thousand lives and a few more trillion dollars...
what the hell...
Grandma Crabby: Even if this teacher stated that the technology for mass killings was not at hand (which I believe you will find out at the end of this process is NOT what she said) does not amount to a Holocaust denial.
She never stated that the Holocaust could not have happened; she is accused of stating that the technology for mass killings was not developed at the time that the war broke out.
"The Nazis did not start World War II with a plan to eliminate the Jews. This solution evolved--especially from 1939 to 1941--as they tried different techniques to accomplish their goals. Particularly in Germany and Poland camp commandants experimented with various killing methodologies and consulted with one another on their successes and failures. The ability of a single camp to kill 2,000-3,000 people per hour took years to achieve. At first, though, murder was done at close range-man-to-man, woman, or child...." The first exterminations were by firing squad, then "Hell Vans" where asphyxiation took place in the back of trucks and finally the development of gassing. The chemical "Zyklon B" which is commonly affiliated with the asphyxiations was actually an insecticide for de-licing the prisoners. "Precise counts of how many people actually were murdered in death camps can never be made because those marched off directly from the trains usually were not registered. However, a calculation that is both conservative and reliable indicates that at least 1.1 million [out of the approximately 6 million Jews killed or missing] were gassed to death at Auschwitz--90 percent of them Jews."
Clearly the foregoing information came from a Holocaust denier website because it states that the Nazis did not originally have the technology to exterminate Jews and developed the technology, right? Actually it is from a 2005 PBS Documentary on Auschwitz. In other words, suggesting that Jews died in many ways other than extermination and that the technology did not exist at the beginning of the war does not equate to outright denial of the Holocaust.
Truly historical investigation and reporting is not an all-or-nothing proposition--where you either accept hook line and sinker that all 6 million Jews died of gassing or you are of the opinion that there never were concentration camps and deny that there even was a Nazi state. No, nothing in the comments indicate that this teacher denied that there ever was a Holocaust.
I am glad that the anti-jewish group are posting.
Hmmmmm....most of them are Democrats.
I saw a poll by that nearly 70% of blacks have anti-jewish tendencies.
It seems that a majority of the rank and file of Democrats are anti-Israel and think that government is one of the worst on the planet.
The leadership of the Democrats and pro-Democratic media (like this paper which is own by a Jewish family) are strong supporters of Israel.
I guess the rank and file Democrat has no say in matters that deal with Israel.
On the flip side, why do Jewish voters play with fire by support the party whose rank-n-file is anti-Israel. I guess the health of state of Israel is not a big priority for them. Why should it be for America?
Bottom line; If the comment had been about any other atrocity, except the holocaust, it would have passed unnoticed. Draw your own conclusions.
hey private pebble...
you must chose your words carefully my friend...
let's be clear...
birdie is neither muslim nor jew...
birdie wishes israel well...
birdie wishes the arab world well...
excluding radical islam of course...
birdie wants nothing more than jews and muslims to live together in peace...
but if this can not happen...
so be it...
it must not become america's problem...
but sadly...
it has...
you see...
birdie is american...
all american...
100% american...
birdie cares about america first...
second...
and third...
what makes birdie terribly upset...
are the fraud's who think they are oh so clever...
like joe "the senior senator from israel" lieberman...
he was spewing the same old nonsense on sunday morning...
invade yemen...
pre-emptive strike...
national security...
fear mongering...
same old crap...
but the fact is joey boy...
you are jewish...
you have displayed a willingness to put israel's best interests ahead of america's...
you want to invade iran...
you want to invade yemen...
you have displayed a willingness to send an unlimited number of brave american kids to their death in the middle east fighting israel's battle against israel's enemy...
you have displayed a willingness to spend an unlimited amount of taxpayer dollars in the middle east fighting israel's battle against israel's enemy...
and that is why your stance on health care was so distasteful joey boy...
so you see private pebble...
some jewish american politicians like the senior senator from israel are hurting america...
badly...
that troubles me...
deeply...
and that must be stopped...
now...
and make no mistake...
this outrage being expressed over this teacher by our jewish friends is not unrelated...
it is designed to keep american sympathy high...
and to keep american blood and treasure flowing to israel...
bottom line...
birdie is american...
birdie cares deeply about america...
only about america...
but sadly...
some americans care more about israel...
and they are willing to spend an unlimited amount of american blood and treasure on behalf of israel...
that is wrong...
dead wrong...
and it must be stopped...
now...
teacher, it's good to hear that the supervisors actually have the ability to fire teachers. It's terrible to hear that they don't. Most non-union jobs in the private sector give the manager/supervisor the freedom to evaluate the performance of the employees, and make changes when necessary. Of course the managers/supervisors make mistakes and don't always make decisions for the right reasons, but by and large the system works MUCH better than one where a person can't get fired if they do something stupid.
This is the big knock on teachers and unions. Giving teachers a paid vacation because they do something stupid seems ridiculous. Not having the ability to give a good teacher, that doesn't make these types of mistakes, a higher salary increase than a teacher that has clearly made mistakes, is also a joke.
I want teachers to be paid more, in general, but I want the RIGHT teachers to be paid more and the wrong teachers to get the boot.
To the person that said this is no different than the nonsense heard on talk radio...I hope you were just talking about the stupid comments themselves. Because we can easily turn the dial on the radio, it's a little more difficult to take our kids out of a school.
Disclaimer...I'm obviously anti-union (for the most part) because of what I've personally seen/experienced. I also don't know anything about this story outside of the article posted here, so my comments are simply based on the info above.
I don't know if I'm more concerned about the comments made by the teacher.....or the crackpots commenting on this site.
Scary.
Noindex
Dont waste you time on Birdiedreamin, he's a nut job... we all know that. Politics are like religion, everyone thinks what they believe is correct, the truth is, wether you are demo or repub, jewish or christian, people believe what they believe and there is no "right or wrong" when it comes to that, you as an "American" Birdiedreamin should respect the fact that not everyone believes what you believe, instead you insult everyone with your name calling and negativity, if you are "America" as you claim to be then no wonder the rest of the world looks down on us.
This thread has spun hopelessly off-topic and out of control. I applaud those few of you have tried to focus on the intent of the article: censorship, law, roles of the teacher, etc.
But wow. Noindex, tdoma, grandma, etc.... I am completely amazed and frightened about the comments too. I guess people really take their "free speech" entitlement to heart when they spew forth meaningless, uninformed, and insulting drivel.
hey grandma...
quick question...
jewish folks consider themselves god's chosen people...
correct...
and certain jewish politicians...
like i don't know...
say joe "the senior senator from israel" lieberman...
have no problem putting israel's best interests ahead of america's...
have no problem whatsoever spending american blood and treasure to advance israel's best interest...
like i don't know...
say invading iran and yemen...
using american blood and treasure of course...
now...
here's the question...
if someone just pointed out those two facts noted immediately above...
facts that are beyond dispute...
on like i don't know...
say a sun message board...
does that make that person an anti-semite???
stated alternatively...
do jewish folks interpret the term anti-semitism to mean anything that is not pro israel???
hmmm...
you know what we need to get to the bottom of this...
we need a probe...
maybe a commission too...
let's waste lots of taxpayer dollars...
and if a brave american soldier gets killed in the process...
so be it...