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Sunday, Dec. 27, 2009 | 2 a.m.
What's Your Vision?
I bet three-quarters of a billion dollars that things will be good on the Las Vegas Strip by 2020, so I hope I’m right.
I figure the Strip is going to continue to be the place in Las Vegas, and there’s only one Las Vegas so people from around the world will continue to come here. The traffic at the airport will be 45 million to 50 million people a year and by 2020, all the room inventory will be absorbed.
Fontainebleau will be open and operating as will Echelon. Somebody will develop the property I used to own, the Frontier site, either the current owner or somebody else because the location is just too good to stay dormant.
MGM Mirage and Sol Kerzner had a magnificent plan for a joint venture on 40 acres at Sahara and Las Vegas Boulevard. I think a major resort will be on that site in 10 years.
With all the rooms absorbed, rates will go up and in 10 years, substantially higher than they are.
I’m a little worried about whether we’ll solve the traffic problem from Southern California. It’s a long drive from California to Las Vegas and I think people will continue to want to come here in their cars.
As the populations of California and the Las Vegas Valley continue to grow over the next 10 years, we’re going to have to deal with a lot more traffic here.
I’m not sure if a train will ever get built. I would love to see it, but I just don’t know how that would be funded.
I think international traffic is going to grow and far more people will visit from overseas.
One area that could suffer is downtown Las Vegas. It’s been tough for downtown areas across the country and I don’t think ours will be an exception. It’ll still be there, but it will be a downscale operation. Downtown can’t possibly compete with the Strip, but that means there could be some real bargains there.
Technology will continue to advance and it’s hard to predict what the casino floor is going to look like in 10 years. It’s all pretty upscale now and it’s possible that slot floors will be remade three or four times by 2020.
Internet gambling probably will be legalized by then. I’m not personally in favor of that, but if they can find a way to tax it, it will be legalized. I don’t think Internet gambling will hurt the casino industry. It will probably educate more people about gaming, but the people will still come. You can’t go to our shows on the Internet.
I think the locals market will come back strong and that Boyd Gaming and Station Casinos will be key players. Boyd is a great operator, and Station has some great locations. Both of them will be just fine.
I don’t see a lot of consolidation on the Strip, but some of the big players may spin off some properties. By 2020, Harrah’s and MGM Mirage will have their debt problems ironed out because they’re both led by some really smart people.
Phil Ruffin is the owner of the Treasure Island and co-owner of Trump International Tower, Las Vegas.
This guy must be living in a dream world or chasing the dragon while saying all this. Vegas will not be as it used to be. And the players from all across the world will not fly to a town that is no longer attractive. Tight slots and bad table games are everywhere in this world now, but the hassle at the airports with all these silly and ridiculous security checkpoints will keep tourists from flying far toget tight gamble. This is my vision. We see that the most recent attempt to take down an aircraft can happen and will happen, with or without all these stupid security checks at the airport, no matter how many check-points the airports will set-up, it will happen. And this will keep tourists from flying.
Anyway, good luck with these phantasy-ideas. I am surprised that Mr Ruffin did not mention the water issue. Water is the thing Vegas will depend on, besides tourism. The way water is being used and wasted, it will be a self-runner and Vegas will see what will happen in 10 years from now.
From Switzerland
As the large corporate casino companies continue to collapse under the weight of their own debt, the Phil Ruffins of the world will be in position to pick up some real bargains when the corporations sell off properties to pay down debt. Ruffin has predicted a lot of things that will occur in 10 years. I think in 10 years, Ruffin will be looked upon as one of the smartest operators in Las Vegas (Think Steve Wynn or Sam Boyd). He's 100% right on the train thing, it will be decades before it ever makes it's first run between L.V. and L.A. If I'm still around then, I'm still taking my car. If the I.P. is still there (doubtful), I'll still stay there.
Wow, Mr. Ruffin, sure hope you are correct on certain counts. There may not be any more consolidation...it is probably illegal in most places to have allowed the monopolies on the Strip to happen. Downtown will never be a destination, and the emphasis should be to just secure it and keep it clean. We desperately need the fast trains between Vegas and the West Coast...Mr. Reid should get us the money as he paid others for their Senate votes. Proliferation of gaming, of any kind, has proved to hurt Las Vegas...it is not true that it creates more Las Vegas visitors; if so, what has happened in the past three years. Our elected City, County, and State officials, along with the heads of our Gaming companies should all join forces with our economic development types and get out on the road to sell Nevada and Las Vegas for new companies, for tourism, and for conventions. You too, Mr. Ruffin, should use any influence you have to make sure that something happens quickly at the Fontainebleau site followed by the Echelon site. Let's put our marketing hats on. Sure hope the Convention Authority has a meaningful advertising agency with meaningful programs for all the money they spend each year.
Wrong Mr. Ruffin. Downtown does'nt have as many Chapter 11's as the strip has. I would rather play downtown as the odds are far better.
If the strip keeps baiting and switching customers, they will find somewhere else to go. (Baiting, $49 room rate, switching $8 Budweiser and similar) Downtown does have better odds, better value etc. They have to in order to attract any business. Its tough out there, too bad wall street guys are running all the strip properties, they just dont understand the gambler. I was at city center and visited a retail store, the cheapest pair of mens pants were $1500. Who can afford that? Didnt they learn from the performance of the Grand Canal Shoppes II, that went bankrupt? High End only works for the privileged few, the vast majority of vegas visitors are regular joes, just like me. Build something for us, quit building to satisfy someones ego.
"With all the rooms absorbed, rates will go up and in 10 years, substantially higher than they are"
The above comment along with the prediction of more "major development" in 10 years defies reality. It will take 15 years to absorb what sits beneath the multitude of sleeping cranes we have today.
Capacity? What about Macau and Singapore? These major casinos will only bleed the Asian market that keeps the LV Strip alive today.
Back of the cocktail napkin points:
Increase in Las Vegas casino/bed capacity by 30%
Increase global casino/bed capacity by 20%
Increase in Indian gaming nationwide
Decrease in personal wealth (USA and UK) by 30%
Collapse of Dubai World and other EZ financing
I'll stop here to save napkins -
This dude Ruffin has no choice but to be this delusional. He's all in, and if he's wrong, he's broke.
Downtown Las Vegas is a dead dog lying in the street waiting to be picked up by the pound dead-dog removal crew.
It will not and cannot be revised despite the fantasyland dreams, schemes and pet ideas of our beloved mayor. Its dead...over...never to return again.
It was killed long ago when they stopped (1) supporting Helldorado, a parade that could have been world class on par of Rose Bowl Parade in Pasadena, many years ago to keep customers inside the clubs; (2) when they turned the world famous "FREMONT STREET", the worldwide icon by which this town was known into a ridculous sky cover show and cheap, sleezy gimick shops....its dead...over...never to return again.(3 allowed Steve Wynn to build a plastic version of the original Golden Nugget; glitz, gaudy plastic and flash-no fire and little else.
With all of the issues Las Vegans have, without the water your city will crumble. We want to retire in Las Vegas but I don't see any way you will have any water in 10 years or less. Unless texas and California can start masive desalinating plants to develop fress water from the ocean the whole of the southwest is in jeprody. There will not be enough water for all of the states. Many other areas of the worrld are building new casinos and that will hurt you foreign customers. Don't forget the state compettion, we live in the Detroit area and enjoy the casinos available to us. I am sure there will be more state allowed casinos to come to the aid of their failing state economies. So all I can say is stick your head in the sand do nothing and die. That is the course you are persuing. Remember the federal Government is broke there will be no help from them.
God this is depressing isn't it. Sorry but I belive it will come to be the truth.
First without the Golden Nugget downtown would be a total dump the Fremont Street sky cover should be taken down it destroys the atmosphere of being outside. Downtown also needs to host it's own events without relying on the strip hotels to help those events get notice. Also it has to many junk shops selling worthless items. Downtown can do better if it wants too but catering to people that don't want to spend more then $30.00 per night on a room is not going to do it for them.
if memory serves mr ruffin is hardly all in.he sold the frontier and property for 1.78 billion.he paid 775 mill for treasure island.according to my primitive math that leaves about a billion to fall back on.notwithstanding his other assets ,and imagine they're substantial.mr ruffin will be ordering the steak and lobster when he goes out.thats more then u can say for the long-time t i employees that he let go or took away their senority upon assuming control of the place.
Simply distinguishing the fact that Mr. Ruffin sold the Frontier for $1.24 billion.
"High End only works for the privileged few, the vast majority of vegas visitors are regular joes, just like me".
___________
You guys don't get it, modern day Vegas on the strip doesn't want the "average joe" around. They're to much of an inconvienence, they would rather go after the big money and the pretentious phonies that it attracts. You know the people, the ones who come in here from California (and other places) after saving up for a few months just so they can blow all their money in high end casinos and clubs while pretending to be big shots in fancy clothes that they went in debt paying for. It's why I have never set foot in a "megaresort".
"With all of the issues Las Vegans have, without the water your city will crumble. We want to retire in Las Vegas but I don't see any way you will have any water in 10 years or less. Unless texas and California can start masive desalinating plants to develop fress water from the ocean the whole of the southwest is in jeprody. There will not be enough water for all of the states"
This is very true and no one, not even in this article, addresses this important issue. I will bet in OUR lifetimes, including you youngsters in your 30's out there, we will see the water run out....UNLESS something is done about it now. The Colorado River supports water for Cali, NV, AZ and Utah. No way can it continue to do so with the population growing in the next 10, 20, 30 years. No way. It will get to a point that in Vegas, you will only be able to flush your toilets on certain days - just like they schedule garbage pick up days. Garbage on Tues & Thurs, toilet flushing Mondays and Wednesday, Shower/bath day - Saturdays. Forget your yards... And filling up your pools.
You can never count out Las Vegas. National pundits were declaring Las Vegas dead and overbuilt in the 1950's, the 1980's, and now again in the 2000's.
I would never bet against this city. None of us know how, but it always finds a way to reinvent itself and flourish. Folks need to be a little more patient than expecting things to turn around in 6 months...
I'm afraid Ruffin like Wynn have forgotten how they got where they are today. I believe it was reported by the Sun that Ruffin, when talking a few months ago about lowering prices, that anyone who couldn't afford the prices at TI were "someone else's customers" Now TI is running "specials" like the others. What goes around....
Hey Ruffin, California's population is shrinking, not growing!
Ruffin's comments might be a little skewed to the Strip, since that's where his property lies. He may be correct about a few things, but he seems oddly ignorant about the state of urban downtowns - not just ours but those of other cities.
His comment "It's been tough for downtown areas across the country and I don't think ours will be an exception" is almost ten years behind. Downtowns have been suffering for decades (that's old news) but their revitalization has been underway for decades as well. The revitalization of downtowns has been successful in many cities, including San Diego (which took 20+ years to go from a flophouse disaster to a wonderful urban spot).
There is no way an area that is physically restricted can compete with one that is land-rich. I'm not even sure what Ruffin means when he says "compete." Downtown and the Strip are two vastly different animals - and that's okay. What emerges in Downtown over the next decade will likely be someplace more like what downtown was in the 1960s and early 1970s, not in a kitschy nostalgic sense, but rather as a place where residences, shopping, entertainment, casinos and offices coexisted. In other words, a walkable, concentrated urban center where people live, work and play.
"Walkable" and "concentrated" was never part of the Strip's appeal, as it was influenced much more by the vastness of the desert; resorts were spread wide and set far back from the street on grand drives with flashy porte cocheres so as to accommodate and celebrate the age of the automobile. That influence - until CityCenter - remains on the Strip today.
Of course, Ruffin's words are simply his opinion; if the Sun asked someone who has hundreds of millions invested into a Downtown property what they think, we'd be reading a different opinion.
Looks like today's story is another idiot magnet.
Just a sample of the words of wisdom posted here by some amature economic prognosticators:
People wont fly anymore.
No more water.
"Cocktail napkin" analysis predicts doom.
Ruffin will be broke.
Modern day Vegas not for average Joe.
Simply distinguishing the fact that Mr. Ruffin sold the Frontier for $1.24 billion.
And last but not least, this brilliant comment:Hey Ruffin, California's population is shrinking, not growing!
Funny stuff. Keep it coming.
Downtown Las Vegas is in no way similar to the downtowns of other cities, which have suffered from the onslaught of Walmart, etc. The fact that downtown casino/hotels offer great room bargains and looser slots than the Strip, means that downtown Las Vegas will continue to attract its core customers. Nice rooms for about $50.00, reasonably priced restaurants, and free or inexpensive entertainment, are a huge draw to value-oriented vacationers like myself. Even after losing $200.00 or $300.00 on slots in a week, the total trip price is fantastic value. The downtown establishments can survive on the smallish profit they make on guests like me (except for those hotel/casinos which have let their overall debt get out of control).
I fully expect the huge strip hotel/casinos to have more trouble surviving the upcoming decade than the downtown places.
Ruffin demonstrated some real estate prowess with the Frontier but no one on either side of the isle would say he distinguished himself as an operator per se at the property. He has a cost driven approach which is a necessary trait during these times. But his 3/4 of a B investment is already worth a lot less in lieu of falling revenues and while he has the patience and staying power corresponding to his strategy, the TI is not the casino of choice in his neighborhood. I'm wagering his capital improvements will be minimal and the TI brand, as confused as it is, will tarnish over time. But I would not count Ruffin out.
Please let the mob back in before Vegas dies...
Las Vegas has to do something BIG and BOLD ! to outdo all of the competition all over the world to bring back the tourists and players. What's it gonna be? A good place to start is to open up Vegas to the crossroads of the world otherwise known as Los Angeles, by building the bullet train NOW ! The casinos have to offer great deals and tempting incentives to the tourists. The town has to go "All In"
I want some of those happy pills Ruffin's taking -- although if I was 73 with a 27 year old supermodel hanging off my arm the only pill I'd probably need would be of the Viagra variety -- the real bet is whether Phil will even see 2020?
: {
@Harley: LMAO--I just read the same fact on wiki about him marrying a very young Miss Ukraine. No wonder he's out of touch with the real world. And he doesn't even LIVE in Las Vegas...I wonder if he knows about the "third straw" for Lake Mead and how dire our water situation is??
I agree with the above comments about Lake Mead--we will be out of water long before 2020.
A big thank you for your investments in Las Vegas, and your boundless optimism, Mr. Ruffin. But you're missing your pom-poms to shake while you cheerlead us with your good-things-to-come predictions. Rah, rah, rah. Hip, hip, hooray!
You've got Casino gambling all over the U.S. & the world now. Vegas used to be the only game in town but now everybody can gamble close to there own homes. The bottom line with Vegas is that it's exclusivity is gone forever.
logic_should_rule - That is one hilarious post. I was thinking the exact same thing. I am enjoying the posts on this thread.
S711
I find it funny to read all of the comments that support downtown and bash the Strip. People talk with their wallets......if downtown is so great, then why don't you go spend your money down there? ha!
Funny thing is that the 10 people on the LV Sun site that support downtown can't save it from it's inevitable demise.
S711
Phil Ruffin will go down in history as one of the best real estate investors, casino magnate, humanitarian and operator of gaming properties. Say what you will about the man, but while others panic or got into financial trouble he was buying. That shows a savvy business acumen coupled with a strong belief that Las Vegas will survive and thrive. I will never knock that logic, and I for one am rooting for him and therefore our own towns survival.
There are lots of points of view about the future by other folks and yet people gravitate to this guy who has lots of money. What does that prove? That the scent of money is strong? I think the guy is a great investor but a bit delusional. Does downtown have a future? Don't know - personally love it and know it has a lot of fans who aren't going to throw away there money on marble floors. The well used carpets in the old casinos are great! The real people are there. Don't forget one thing - Steve Wynn says people make money in casinos - the owners that is. These days that is questionable. A lot will change - city center will go out of business and will drag down others with it on both the strip and downtown and on Boulder Hwy. Ok have a good time whatever you do and try to be human and concerned by things besides the greedy pigs on the strip.
I agree with those saying that there is an excess of high end rooms. I'm the $50 customer that Ruffin said a couple months back that he wasn't interested in. Actually, I'm the $25 customer that usually stays at Palace Station or I.P. But have recently stayed at Luxor for under 50 and have seen TI rooms in that range recently too. TI is one of those resorts that doesn't get the hype the way they do at Wynn, Caesars, Venetian, MGM, Mirage, CC, Bellagio, etc. TI kind of fits in with the Planet Hollywood, Luxor, NYNY, among othere as a newer place that is far better than the room price they command. In other words, A great value for those of us who might want to spend a little extra than the usual I.P. or Circus Circus and enjoy the upgrade. Totally lost in the mix are Excallibur, Trop, Ballys, Downtown, Stratosphere, Anything North of Wynn, etc. Palazzo is nice, but virtually invisible in the minds of the average person looking for a nice place. I think I'll try TI next time, If Phil will accept my $50 per night. I'm betting he will.
I find it funny to read all of the comments that support downtown and bash the Strip. People talk with their wallets......if downtown is so great, then why don't you go spend your money down there? ha!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
YOU may not spend your money downtown, but every time I go it's packed and I support downtown!! I respect your choices on the Strip, it's money coming into Las Vegas, so keep on visiting and spending your money, but also keep in mind, that, yes, the Strip will always remain King...with the tourists...and however long they keep coming. Mr. Ruffin has to say what he says...he's on the Strip.
This guy must be smoking crack. What freaking delusional planet is he on?
Strip issues aside, the water issue in Las Vegas should be taken really seriously by our elected officials. I wonder why is it that Lake Powell in Arizona is around 90+ percent of capacity while Lake Mead is at 40+ percent capacity? Why would the Bureau of Reclamation not release water to Lake Mead for the city of Las Vegas? The Colorado River flows to Lake Powell first and then to Lake Mead. There are talks that in the next couple of years Lake Powell will soon release water. What is our elected officials doing? Why wait so long? We have underground water basins in rural NV, our officials should really focus on securing water rights for Las Vegas and start building the pipeline to Las Vegas to supplement the water supply for the people of Las Vegas.
Just did a short research on water levels at Lake Mead and Lake Powell.
Lake Mead at full capacity is at 1225 ft. elevation. Current level is at 1093 ft.
1093/1225 = 89 percent of capacity.
Lake Powell at full capacity is at 3700 ft. elevation. Current level is at 3632 ft.
3632/3700 = 98 poercent of capacity.
It is about time Lake Powell to release water for Lake Mead.
Thank you, GooGooDolls. Your voice is the only sane one on this topic. Too much pessimism here for my taste. If you all don't like it here, then leave!
JulesK27 :
Your opinions are yours to express freely, as are those of the dissenters. You must understand that folks are UNHAPPY with what has been done to this once great city by the greedy business leaders and government. But get off the "If you don't like it here, then leave" crap ! everyone has an opinion, and you should consider that perhaps these folks care about our city, and are expressing their outrage at how things are being handled here...
I went back to TI last July after being away all the time MGM operated it. Room was nice, but the rest of the place was just "less" than before. A long time bartender there told me for the first time he was scared (of this economy). He's been there since the beginning and I bet he's gone by now.
Ruffin's made changes, but none of them are FOR players aka customers. Bad games, bad club (I got NO offers from my considerable play, yet other places are papering me to death). Now a ridiculous $20 plus tax resort fee?
Forget it. I won't be back. Good luck Phil, you'll need it. Downtown is not a pit like a lot of people want to paint it, I'll go back there in a heartbeat. At least there's still value to be had there.
You can take the Strip and Stick it, you know where, 80% are empty. Indian Casinos are the ticket now for the average Joe.
jbkayaker, I'd be willing to bet that those numbers are elevation, not depth. Those elevations are elevation above sea level, not elevations above the bottom of the lake. I can guarantee you that it is not 1100 feet down to the bottom of Mead from the water surface. I think you need to research more than the surface elevations. I researched. Maximum depth is 500 feet (one source said 560). Average depth is 225 feet. Therefore if it is down over 100 feet, that leaves a lot less than 89 percent capacity. Lake Powell maximum depth 560 feet, average depth 132 feet. Re-check it out, you'll see that the bottom of either lake is not zero as you have assumed.
Lots of chapter 11's on the strip. Only a matter of time, GOODBY!!!!!!!
Ruffin, is it true you took away a couple weeks of annual vacation from each of your senior MGM Mirage transfer employees? Please tell me it's not true, and I'd consider dropping some of my hard-earned bucks in your joint. Until then, I wouldn't buy a cup of coffee from you.
i talked w/a day 1 treasure island employee and he confirmed that ruffy took away the vacations they'd earned over the years.didnt know he had a mail-order bride.he couldnt pull a nice american girl w/all of his $.weak
You know, Phil penned this article. If he has something to say, he could/should post.
In all fairness, his marriage is his business. Actually I've heard his Ukrainian wife is not only beautiful and smart, she's also not overtly materialistic. To guess, a good classy lady.
But, the matter of getting cheap with loyal employees, I have trouble with that.
Phil Ruffin, a classy guy.
May many other mega-operator casinos fall into the hands of men like Phil.
I recently retired tho I would rather be working and moved to LV for several reasons but mostly I appreciate the weather here. I don't enjoy gambling or cig smoke but have checked out the Casinos as I have enjoyed them much in the past. Spent most of my life in the building & landscape business. The lack of water has been mentioned several times and yes over the years I have noticed the white ring on Mead steadily growing. One of the first things I noticed here was the shower heads are all water hogs, up north where there is still lots of water most everyone uses water miser type shower heads. I have also noticed the ugly grass lawns here, why not eliminate those althogether the Cactus and other low water users are much more attractive. I could go on & on about the silly water use in this city and can also tell you that it would take very little to improve it much but I have heard little of this mentioned. I guess what I am trying to say is, without water we have no city and folks that is coming soon so get your heads out of your as. What The He?? !!!!!!!!
I still believe in "some" of the downtown casinos. I believe in the Plaza, the Golden Nugget, the Mainstreet Station for its extremely smart marketing strategy, and I believe in the El Cortez.
I don't think the Vegas Club and the Binions Club will have any future. They never thought it's necessary to remodel their crabby rooms and fix the water pipe problems, and now the gamblers play elswehere.
The El Cortez is one of the last and true downtown jewels, so it's disqualifying to say that the Strip will be king and the rest is doomed to go down. Some casinos on the Strip are losing money and approaching total bankruptcy, whereas other casinos may look nice but are also not profitable under the current conditions. Too much debt load could break everybody.
I personally believe that some locals casinos will make it through this downturn, regardless, and some casinos will go down and must shut down. Right now, what we have, is a complete over-supply of gaming, and therefore the strong valued casinos with loads of loyal customers will survive. The rest will probably suffer or go out of business. Either on the Strip, or in Downtown, never mind.
Greetings from Switzerland
@cribster64
Yeah, his fifty-years younger wife married this billionaire for love. I'll give you that she's a very smart lady.
Mr. Ruffin is a great investor and very optimistic. But downtown will not suffer--tourists will flock there to see Las Vegas of old..when they tire of these new generic high rises on the Strip. Fremont Street is a fun place to hang out and gamble. And walk. And win. Now if they would only remove that ugly canopy and open up Fremont to the skies again. More classic neon, please.
westvegas, I can't agree with you.
Ruffin has done zilch yet in his casino career that I have seen to show he's savvy in the business as an operator. Shrewd investor yes picking up the Frontier at late '90's prices and flipping it for a huge gain, but being a good operator is different territory. When I see him getting cheap with employees, that is one mistake right there. He's on the strip but would be well-advised to learn lessons from someone like Michael Gaughn when it comes to taking care of the locals and the employees. Coast properties sweated the action something fierce (which Ruffin probably does too...lol!) under Michael, but he was fair to his help and knew how to treat locals. South Point is going through some tough times right now (I heard comps are tight), but in any case Ruffin is well-advised to school himself on catering to locals including his employees. He may think it's a seller's market in labor right now, and he's right, but he'd better promote good employee morale for the future or he'll pay the price down the road.
Everybody keeps telling me to try the Golden Nugget. They are doing something right, the feedback is glowing.
The train is critical. Sitting in traffic for 5,6,7 up to 8 hours is too much. When gas goes on another rally it will be a death blow to vegas.
Without a train, the CA casinos look better and better. Also as you try to diversify the economy the train will be a big help connecting LV to the coast.The train is a necessity.
"MGM Mirage and Sol Kerzner had a magnificent plan for a joint venture on 40 acres at Sahara and Las Vegas Boulevard. I think a major resort will be on that site in 10 years."
That area down by The Sahara is a dump,anyways.
I wonder how much Phil paid the Sun to run this advertisement?
@Bakersfield
Regarding the elevation at both Lakes, just check the Bureau of Reclamation website. It says the exact water elevation of both Lakes. Now whether they are measured at sea level or from the bottom of the lake itself, it is not really clarified. Regardless, if the lake's level at Lake Powell is NEAR CAPACITY then it should be about time for authorities to release water from Lake Powell to fill Lake Mead. The website has a table for the water levels on both lakes for comparison.
I see alot of misinformation passed around when it comes to water for Las Vegas.
Let's set a few straight:
Elevations are determined from Sea Level.
As of 12/23/09 according to the Bureau of Rec.
Lake Powell is at 60% capacity
Lake Mead is at 43% capacity
Who cares about the water? I don't.....I have grass lawns in the front & back with no plans to change it out to desert. I enjoy my home and love Las Vegas for all the good/bad characteristics.
I believe in time, the strong will survive......Chapter 11 will relieve some companies (properties) from it's debt load and they will become profitable again. Some downtown properties will make it, some won't......whatever it happens to be, I don't wish any bad luck on any particular company/property.....I hope they all make it.
My personal taste is more towards the Strip than Downtown. I think Downtown has become dirty, unsafe, and too low class for my tastes. I don't consider junk at any price value.....and that is what it has become in my eyes. I'd rather save my money so that I can spend it in a nice, clean place with great food, worse odds, and beautiful people than go 10x to a junky place, with crappy food, beggars bothering you every 10 ft, 10 yr old machines, and better odds. It's all about quality, not quantity in my book.
S711
My predictions for 2020. There will be 10 times as many losers handing out escort flyers on the Strip. They will outnumber the tourists. The disgrace that is the IP will still stand. It will now take one hour to cross Las Vegas Blvd by automobile on Flamingo in either direction anytime of the day or night. Planet Hollywood will file for bankruptcy again and will once again be called The Aladdin. The Miracle Mile shopping area will have one surviving store left, Starbucks. Caesars Palace will still be under construction. They will have torn down the room towers that were completed earlier in the decade and rebuild new ones. Circus Circus and Slots of Fun will still exist. There will be drunks and drug addicts standing out front just like today. Harrahs will buy out the remaining casino operators on the Strip. They will own every casino from Stateline to Sahara Avenue.
@outdacold
Newspaper article a few weeks ago mentioned the level of Lake Mead at 42% and Lake Powell at 92%. This was my first post.
When I checked the website of Bureau of Reclamation, it mentions the current level of Lake Mead @ around 1093 ft. Now if the level of Lake Mead at full capacity is at 1225 ft. Do the math and the it is currently around 89%.
Level at Lake Powel according to the Bureau of reclamation is around 3663 ft. At full capacity, it is around 3700 ft. Now figure out 3663/3700 = 98% of capacity.
Newspaper article also mentioned that pretty soon within the next 2 years give and take the conditions at the Rockies, Lake Powell will start releasing water for Lake Mead.
Given these stats measured at sea level. Lake Mead has still more volume of water than the smaller Lake Powell. PERHAPS this is the reasoning why Bureau of Reclamation has not released enough water to fill Lake Mead in the most recent past.
jbkayaker12
Just retreived this from Bureau web-site
Am I confused?
The lake is not a square box it's bigger at the top
Current Lake Powell storage is 14,574 thousand acre-feet (KAF) (60 percent of
capacity). Lake Mead storage is 11,087 KAF (43 percent of capacity). Total
system storage is 33,217 KAF (56 percent of capacity). Lake Powell elevation
is 3,627.49 feet.
Yesterday, the average Colorado River flows were 504 cfs near the Yuma Fourth
Avenue Bridge and 1,629 cfs at the Northerly International Boundary. The
average release from Painted Rock Dam was 0 cfs and Alamo Dam was 30 cfs. The
Morelos Dam diversions for the week of 28-Dec-2009 are expected to be 1,330 cfs.
ALL RIVER USERS should remember that fluctuating river flows may conceal or
create natural hazards such as moving sandbars, gravel bars, unstable
riverbanks, floating or submerged debris, or other unfamiliar obstacles.
Caution should be exercised while using the river between Davis Dam and the
Mexican Border at San Luis, Arizona.
Webmas
People.....this is the 21st Century......we will find a solution to this problem! There is too much money at stake in Las Vegas to believe that water supply will be a problem. We will solve it, RELAX.
It took us how many years to drain the lakes down to the current levels? Most of us won't be alive to see the lakes empty.
S711
From an industry valuation perspective I suspect TI is worth more as part of The Mirage (Mirage Resorts/Steve Wynn designed the property as "TI @ The Mirage") than as a stand-alone property. Ask a gaming analyst and he/she would likely concur. Assuming this is true, MGM Mirage was in the ironic position of discounting TI down to Ruffin's offer which turns out to be closer to the stand-alone value.
Time will tell, but I think MGM Mirage could today operate the TI more profitably as part of The Mirage than Ruffin can as a stand-alone property. Granted, in operating TI, MGM Mirage would enjoy numerous synergies as a large company with their family of properties as well as their much greater expertise as an operator compared to Ruffin. I would not be surprised to see Ruffin sell TI back to MGM Mirage.
In any case, Ruffin is unique in holding a strip megaresort as a sole owner/operator. I suspect his room rates will always be soft compared to his larger competitors, unless he gets very creative and innovative in his product offering. And these large operators continually expend capital to keep their properties fresh. Will Ruffin invest profit to do the same?
Sure hope he's right. Somebody needs to come in and open an OLD TIME CASINO with coins that jingle. Computerized machines are NO FUN !!!
The first casino to bring back the sound of coins spewing out and the feel of real money is going to take over the town, Hell I might even drop a few sheckles in one of those. I moved here from a state that has coinless video poker in every bar and I never played them there.
Hey, Sinatra guys like us who understand water resources and the seriousness of the issue have to worry about it and be active in the solution so dummies like you don't have to worry about it!
Is it just me or does Phil Ruffin look like one of those dummies with someones hand up their asp?
2020!! Seriously?? That's as optimistic as you can be? I love how Ruffin can talk about 2020 and still be perceived as being optimistic about the future of the strip. What he means to say is that we (Las Vegas) are screwed for at least 10 years!!
RHG.....you hit the nail on the head.
As a casino worker in downtown. I can tell you right now that people will still come to Vegas and spend what little they could spend. Not everyone want to stay in 4 or 5 star hotels and spend $200-300 / nite. Not everyone can afford to gamble on $15 - 100 table games. They just want a little piece of action in Vegas. Times are tough but things will get better as it always had been. Most of casinos in downtown rely on tourists with budgets. And I see now that we're getting more tourists from Europe , Canada , Asia , India and South America.
At least someone is trying to be optimistic!
The weaker the dollar , the more important that Las Vegas (plus of course the rest of the US) will realize the importance of international visitors.
I have had problems finding a hotel room on the weekends many times but because of the crisis this shouldn't be a big problem these days. Anyway, it costs nothing to treat international travellers better than ...."oh, just another stupid tourist"....
From Switzerland
Does TI still have the pirate show ? That was the only thing special abou that place,IMHO.
Soon the Strip will be Completely STRIPED!!!!! All gone.!!!!!!!!
On a lighter note: Have any of you seen Mr. Ruffin's wife? I think he's at least 40+ years older than her! She's smokin' hot and she was Miss Ukraine... God bless money and what it brings to some!
http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/05/22...
Happy New Year to all. See you around town. JH.
Want to know what LV will look like in 2010. The market will recover but not enough for people to justify all of the various projects that were envisioned several years ago. There will be a great deal of steel skeletons around town that will never be re-started and will eventually have to be torn down at the expense of taxpayers. Boyd seems to be willing to spend all of it's available capital to attempt a takeover of Station Casinos. While I don't think this should be allowed to happen it might. If it does then the lot where Stardust will remain empty for the next 20 years.
Nothing could be better for the gaming customer than for these existing gaming conglomerates to go belly up and be sold off in chunks. The only good thing about the current two major casino owners on the strip is that they have radically different customer philosophies. If the two companies gaming philosophies begin to coincide more it could become really bad in terms of competitive balance.