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StumbleLETTER TO THE EDITOR:
Electric cars aren’t an improvement
Tuesday, Aug. 25, 2009 | 2:01 a.m.
General Motors announced production of an electric battery-operated car that will get 230 miles per gallon. What gallon? Gallon of hot air perhaps?
Charging that battery requires an electric plug; that plug has to be fed electric power from somewhere — most likely from a coal-fired power plant. The energy equation for that is negative — it takes more energy to drive that electric car than a normal gasoline-powered car.
And its “carbon footprint” is larger. That idea of battery-operated cars was tried in the 19th century and found wanting, and this retired engineer with a Ph.D. in heat transfer and thermodynamics finds this old idea beyond ridiculous.
Again, what gallon exactly is that “g” in the 230 mpg car?
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The no thrills car, the Volt, will only cost $45,000.
Wooooweeeee......they are going to standing in line for that.
Why don't we just go back to the horse and buggy the steam engine and no airplanes we can not move are way thru the 21st century on 19th century horsepower. Just think how many B.T.U. do you think that the space shuttle puts out on every launch' The idea of battery-operated cars and trucks is point-less. Also do you think that other countrys are going to follow are lead on this like CHINA / INDIA / RUSSIA >>>>> YEA RIGHT DREAM ON!
Don't worry, electricity is everywhere, you just plug it in. We cannot generate it from a nuclear plant as we cannot store the waste.
We cannot generate it from coal as it warms the earth. We cannot generate it from hydro at dams as that hurts the fish. We cannot burn oil as drilling is bad.
Just get the electricity from a plug, or put a windmill on your house, because we cannot have them on our mountain passes and no solar disturbing the desert. Just get it from a plug.
I don't know how you got your Ph.D. considering you don't do your homework. FYI, the 230 mpg is a number plucked out of thin air because by law they had to put in a number. It's completely arbitrary. As for your carbon footprint assertion: it is only true if the electricity is generated by the most inefficient coal-burning plant. If it comes from the Hoover Dam or from a nuclear plant, it has virtually no carbon footprint.
Mr. Ph.D. Critic:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity...
Over 80% of USA electrical power comes from fossil fuels.
That number is not going to change much even with a push for solar and wind because their is a constant growth in the need for electrical power supply and we are lucky if we can keep up especially with the all enivornmental nuts stopping the building of nuclear, natural gas and coal plants.
If in two years, we all were forced to buy the Volt then the electrical grid could not support that especially during the hot summer hots in the west and the cold winter months in the mid-west and northwest.
I have a 2003 model Toyota with about 110K miles on it. I just installed the fourth battery into it because the desert heat beats them to death. Fortunately it has a generous warrantee and I had only to pay for the first replacement of it which was about $75. I have tried to research what a replacement battery for a Volt would cost and I come up with a range of $6000 to $17,000 depending on the source. Even GM does not give out an accurate figure. I really wonder how the Volt battery would stand up in this desert heat where it easily gets up to 140 degrees under the hood. Is the consumer in Las Vegas going to have to fork out $6000 to $8000 (these are just estimates) every 18 to 24 months to keep the thing running?
Also, the best batteries are lithinum based.
There are only 6 countries in the world that have lithinum mines.
If cars with those big lithinum battery packs become popular then the price of those batteries will go up by leaps and bounds.
Wow...the Volt runs on air and still pollutes more than a gas car? How'd GM manage to keep that secret for so long?
I'm used to cynicism in "journalism", but can we at least start plucking some new misinformation to base it on, just to keep things interesting? The "EVs pollutes more than gas cars" myth was debunked a long time ago, yes, even with 1/2 of our electricity (national mix) being generated from coal. 30+ studies were compiled here: http://bit.ly/S0BUY, and a quick google search provides more.
Because plug-in cars are charged mainly at night, we don't need to build new power plants of any kind for for them until we surpass as many as 180 MILLION of them on the road, per Pacific NW National Labs.
And I can promise you, Sgt.Rock, we will never, ever, see a commercially available car that uses lithinum batteries. So rest easy on that one.
The thing that you have left out of your calculation is the amount of energy purchased by oil refineries to make gasoline. It works out to 12.39 KWH per gallon of gas produced. That does not include the amount of energy to get the oil out of the ground OR the energy to deliver it to the refinery OR the energy to deliver it to the gas station. I drive a fully highway capable electric conversion. I can go 60 miles on that 12.39 KWH of electricity. Before the conversion, the car got 35 mph. It now runs on lithium polymer cells and has a range of 100 miles. I charge it with 2 kw photovoltaic system. I drive about 45 miles a day. The system will pay for itself many times in my life.
Also lithium should not be equated with oil. The battery can be recycled and the lithium used again. There are rebuildable cells being developed now that can last 40 to 50 years and then recycled and used again. Lithium is the 14th most abundant element on the planet. It is found everywhere. Those 6 countries have the cheap and easy to extract, sources of lithium. They are not the only sources
Mr. PhD critic:
Don't know where your 'bought' your degree (perhaps Sear-Roebuck back in the day) but you have some remedial math lessons to take.
It sure looks like EVs are in everyones future, The Infernal Combustion Engine (ICE) is "so last century", it is unfortunate that the entire world is geared up to support that inefficient mode of transport. Source(Well)-to-wheels efficiency is incontestible when you look at EVs versus ICEs.
Bet you enjoyed last summers fuel prices when you just had to go to the store for food.
There are many many EV drivers worldwide who fill for pennies per mile and save substantially on maintenance ocsts over the lifetime of their vehicles. But then you'd not understand such practical implications with those blinders you've been wearing.
Couple electric drive with solar power (yes it does work very well in stationary applications, but not on the roof of some a behemoth SUV) and you might understand the attraction of the two. Energy independence is the name of the game.
Fritz
Electric cars are over 4 times more efficient than internal combustion engine (ICE) cars and over twice as efficient as the Prius. I am getting 135 "equivalent" MPG in my electric car. The ICE cars are only 20% efficient with most of the energy in the gasoline being wasted in the form of heat. In contrast the electric motor has only one moving part and it's moving the direction of the wheels. Also, I power my electric car from the solar panels on the roof of my house. What I am saving in gasoline will pay for the panels in 7 years. The panels are warrantied for 25 years, so this means I can drive for 18 years without paying for gasoline or electricity.
Randy
Derrrr... Hey Sarge, y'all found any of that there lithinum yet? Maybe all them enviromental nuts is hiding it from you! But I thought they's too wimpy to come out durin' the hot summer hots and whatnot. Best go bust some heads 'til they gives y'all all the lithinum y'all can eat!
WOW!
THIS IS THE MOST MISINFORMED ARTICLE I'VE EVER SEEN!
How harmful. Why do lazy writers like this get space in papers like the Sun?
The average American school kid knows more about the advantages and efficiencies of plugin electric cars over internal combustion cars than this author.
The electrification of our personal transportation is the next major industrial revolution in our country. It will create jobs and make for a better world. If you do any reading at all you can see billions of dollars, both private and public moneys being invested in this technology. Just because something is good becomes popular doesn't mean it's BS. This kind of writer likes to take the easy negative bend on subjects just to gain readers with shock value. Very sad.
I urge all readers to do a little reading up on this subject and form your own opinions so you can recognize a BS opinion when you see it.
Jeff