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StumbleSome casino promos not as advertised
With some gamblers feeling misled, regulators seek to set casinos straight
Monday, Aug. 17, 2009 | 2 a.m.
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Amid crumbling profits, Las Vegas casinos are marketing aggressively with freebies, gambling discounts, contests and special events. Among them, according to disgruntled consumers, are inaccurately advertised payouts for video poker machines, gambling promotions that are available only to more profitable customers and comped hotel stays and VIP events with hidden costs.
Some casino customers are taking their complaints about ambiguous or deceptive promotions to the Gaming Control Board — an agency that typically settles more narrowly focused disputes involving gambling bets.
In an attempt to stem a rising tide of complaints about promotions, regulators will hold a series of seminars with Nevada casinos in coming weeks to discuss advertising methods, promotions and casino policies that cross the line. “This isn’t just a few properties having issues with interpretation. It’s industrywide,” Gaming Control Board member Randy Sayre said.
In a letter last month, Sayre cautioned casinos about how they conduct promotions, tournaments and special events, as well as “questionable or misleading advertising.”
Some operators, he wrote, either don’t understand the rules about how to promote gaming activities, or are willfully ignoring them. And the control board, he said, isn’t going to look the other way just because the industry is in a downturn and competitive pressures are leading companies to push the promotional envelope.
While gambling disputes often involve a clear-cut determination of whether a customer won or lost by looking inside the computerized guts of a slot machine, promotional disputes are more complex, regulators say, because they can involve multiple interpretations of how a promotion was advertised.
Regulators welcome complaints from the public as an opportunity to resolve disputes that might otherwise threaten the integrity and image of Nevada’s gaming industry.
Customers of Nevada casinos — among the world’s most regulated businesses — have a backstop in the Gaming Control Board that doesn’t exist in other industries where consumers are simply told to read the fine print, or “buyer beware.”
In 2007, state law changed to give the board the authority to settle disputes involving casino promotions using the same process by which they settle complaints over gambling wins and losses. The board, witnessing an increase in promotion-related complaints, sought the change as a tool to resolve them on a case-by-case basis. Before the change, the control board would have had to initiate an investigation and determine — by filing a complaint against a casino — that the property had conducted business in an unlawful or unsuitable manner. Only the most egregious promotional activities would have made that cut, Sayre said.
A cornerstone of Nevada law allows gamblers to dispute the outcome of any gambling game, for any reason. This so-called patron dispute process begins when a gambler calls the Gaming Control Board, which dispatches an enforcement agent to interview participants and prepare a written report. The customer or casino may appeal the agent’s decision to a hearing examiner, who makes a recommendation to the Gaming Control Board. The three-member board does not consider any new evidence and rarely opposes the hearing examiner’s recommendation.
Consumers have filed 91 promotion-related complaints with the Gaming Control Board since July 2007, when the law changed to authorize regulators to resolve such disputes. That’s a small fraction of the 1,957 total complaints — many of them involving disputed slot machine jackpots — received by the board over the same period. There’s no cost to file a complaint, unless consumers hire their own attorneys to assist in their case.
In most of the promotion-related complaints, regulators decided in favor of the casino.
Several of these disputes have involved gamblers who disputed the number of points they believed they had accumulated on their loyalty cards. These cards typically store such information on a magnetic strip that records gambling activity when it is inserted into a gambling device. Points are like cash in that they can often be redeemed for meals or money to gamble with, and are often offered to gamblers as a promotional incentive.
Regulators decided in customers’ favor in only 10 of the disputes. In 28 of the disputes, the customers’ complaints were resolved between the customer and the casino without further involvement by regulators.
In only one case did the Gaming Control Board reverse an agent’s initial decision by deciding in favor of a customer on appeal. That case involved a Las Vegas man who was denied a $300 prize by a local casino for legitimately winning a football contest. The casino said he wasn’t entitled to the award because the property had previously kicked him out and told him not to return. Regulators said he was entitled to the prize because the casino had never officially banned the man from the premises. Gaming Control Board officials declined to name the casino.
Anthony Curtis, publisher of the Las Vegas Advisor newsletter for gamblers, said casinos generally do a good job of explaining promotions to the public.
Casinos don’t want to risk angering customers — especially at a time when they are desperate for business, he said.
“There’s no value in fooling customers into staying at your property when that irate customer might go to the media or Gaming Control,” he said.
As an example, the Silverton recently offered anyone with a loyalty card 2-for-1 entrees in its restaurants. In extending the promotion, Curtis said, the Silverton was careful to disclose on billboards and mailers that the offer was narrowed and now available only to players who had previously gambled a certain amount at the property.
In general, Sayre says, promotional offers should be clearly worded and shouldn’t arbitrarily exclude certain customers. Everyone, he said, should have a chance to receive the advertised benefits.
Though comps are gifts that can be given and changed at the discretion of the casino, a publicly advertised promotion creates an expectation that casinos should live up to, he said.
“Don’t fly someone out from Akron, Ohio, and then give them something else than what you advertised,” Sayre said.
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There's that old saying "nobody rides for free". This day in age, casinos are offering all kinds of promotions to increase business. While I've taken advantage of many promotions over the years, I don't expect them to just give everything away. Most of what I have used are the Stay 2 nights, get the third free, or 2 for 1 food or gaming coupons given at check-in. Occasionally points on club cards traded for meals or other inexpensive comps, paid out for doing a certain amount of business in the casino. I've never run into any deals that weren't as advertised. Yes, some seem to charge fees on rooms that add a few bucks to the cost, but not enough to make me not come back. Too many people nowadays expect everything for free. Not just in gaming, but in business in general. I expect a good deal, but companies are entitled to a profit.
"In an attempt to stem a rising tide of complaints about promotions, regulators will hold a series of seminars with Nevada casinos in coming weeks to discuss advertising methods, promotions and casino policies that cross the line." This is folly...seminars seem like another slap on the wrist...why let the most highly paid executives in an industry that has the "edge" off the hook again and again. I, for one, am amazed at how we allow the Casinos to do whatever they want to do...in the way of deceptive promotions, in the way of embarrasing activities in their nightclubs, in the way of conducting business so that Las Vegas is NOT taken seriously as a convention and meeting destination.
Among the MOST transparent: Venetian/Palazzo, El Cortez, Arizona Charlies
Among the LEAST: Station Casinos ($28 a night "resort fee" at GVR attached AFTER you buy the room at lasvegas.com).
I am sure there are others that would rival Station, but I try to avoid merchants that charge on the back end.
Did someone say FREE ???...where,where !!
I used to love the "Four Seasons" players' programs that were offered by El Cortez and Las Vegas Club in the 1990's and early 2000's. Hit a jackpot of at least $100.00 and you could stay free for 3 nights 4 times a year. However, when the son took over from the father, they got greedy quickly, began the player's card system, and cancelled the old "Four Seasons" programs with very little notice, even though the congratulatory letters promised that the membership was good for 3 years. That has always left a bad taste in my mouth.
Of course, I think Nevada Gaming Commission has a roll, but the bottom line is you better look out for yourself.
I take advantage of casinos every time that I can and quite frankly, I expect that they are going to do the same thing to me.
I screen my offers, read the small print, ask questions etc...
I check the internet sites and check out supposed payouts on video poker machines etc. In other words, I try to do a little homework myself.
As a general rule, I have found that no one looks out for my interests as well as I do. I think that rule of thumb applies to everyone.
The most significant thing that Nevada Gaming can do is make sure their are no lies or out right deception. I don't feel like having to read the "small print" constitutes deception.
Anybody that thinks that casinos aren't trying to get the better of them is very naive and should probably stay home.
The Red Rock Station recently ran a promotion that was bogus. I received a postcard showing among other items, a nice womens shirt advertised FREE for making points paying slots. Make x amount of points and the shirt is yours. I went to Red Rock and made the points and went to collect my shirt. This was on the first day of the promotion. When it is my turn at the promo desk I hand the staffer my players card and ask for the womens shirt.
What they had was a bunch of small size tee shirts left over from a previous promotion. They actually told me this. When I called the next day to speak with the manager she never returned my call. I called again and left a message and she had a young staffer call me. This staffer just repeated that the womens shirts were leftover from a previous promo and they were getting rid of them.
Terrible customer service. I have not been back to Red Rock since.
"And the control board, he said, isn't going to look the other way just because the industry is in a downtown and competitive pressures are leading companies to push the promotional envelope."
I think it's "downturn" not "downtown". I know spell check doesn't catch everything but jeez.
gaming control board is a joke folks. i had a good pay flip off a slot, after no help from stations i called gaming commision. someone came out to hear my complaint but were more interested in talking to stations employees than hear what happened.
What is especially strange is how Gov't could be set up to take bids for competetive regulators enforcement officers, but No the regulators get paid 100,000 dollars a year to do nothing more then look the other way. I know you fools are reading this from gaming board, so you better do something or all bets are off.
gamblers = morons.
it always makes me laugh when people complain that they didn't get a good deal at a casino.
that's how they pay the light bill, folks. by taking YOUR money.
Could this story have possibly been more toothless? Great example of the Sun being afraid to name names for fear of loss of advertising revenue. Sun editors need a backbone.
I am glad to read that other people had these problems. I thought it was just me. The Silverton staff was so rude, that we will never be back there again. The restaurant manager was so rude to us when we tried to redeem the coupons that THEY SENT US, it was truely amazing. They complain that the revenues are down and it is not a wonder. Station casinos have the exact same problem.
What, advertising and marketing doesn't reflect the truth? No way! Don't tell me now there's no Filet Mignon in dogfood either, as advertised on TV.
Southpoint is another example of false advertising. They advertise LOOSE slots. I went there twice and discovered to my surprise that they are as tight or tighter than the rest of the casinos. While I was there I ate there special (the Advisor) recommended it prime rib in the coffee shop. It is no big deal. Take everything with a grain of salt!
Red Rock Casino is the worst. Room promotions are fake and service is god Awful. I have had some good deals lately at Hilton and Southpoint
When I started out as a bank teller, I remember one of my first customers was making out a bank draft to send to a casino. And all the while as I was doing the transaction, making out the draft, debiting his account, he was going on and on about how they treat you like a king and you don't pay for anything. Meanwhile I was thinking to myself, gee, you could probably get one of the nicest suites in the city for a week for what this draft is for- doesn't seem that free to me.
gamblers = morons.
it always makes me laugh when people complain that they didn't get a good deal at a casino.
that's how they pay the light bill, folks. by taking YOUR money.
********************************************************************
I have to agree with stevem. It's exactly how we keep things rockin' in Vegas.
Although I honestly believe the casinos should offer a little more incentive to keep that proverbial carrot dangling!!
Some gamble because they are addicted to the action. Some for entertainment. There are people who go to casinos because it is an exciting atmosphere. There are those who write comments about subjects to which they are opposed just to to see their names in the paper = stevem.
I don't worry at all about giveaways because as a long time gambler I know which casinos to go to and most importantly which machines to play.
Memo to casino exec's
Comp me or kiss my fatt arse!
end of memo...
It's now a players market, get used to it!
its all a come on, ladies and germs. all they want is your money, nothing else. walk in the front door looking like a star, lose your money like everyone else, and shuffle outta there with your shoulders slumped and your head down.
speeking of complaints Bolder Station is still advertising their $7.99 Faitas all over town and inside the casino however they told me they stopped offering it weeks ago. Talk about a bait and switch. You order and think you are paying one price and get charged more.
Binion's delivers.
I have been staying there since '87 (not continually). The coffey shop is a place you can count on - good service. There coupon book is worth the trip d'town - use the valet.
Did I spell coffey right?
Dear Hy Ted, No.
Coffee not coffey.
Some sound advise. Gamble what you can afford. If you eventually rack up enough points over time for a room or meal that's great, but never play just to get the freebies. In the end you can usually just pay cash and still be ahead. That's why casinos have the reward cards. To get players to gamble more and entice them with "loyalty rewards". It's not free if you lose more than you can afford.
Here is something to mull over, as it is VERY misleading.
For 30 yrs. I have played in special tournaments offered by casinos to their regular players.
In the past it would work something like this:
I would receive an invitation to a tournament limited to 100 invitees. There would be a prize pool of perhaps $50,000. To determine whether or not this event was worth my time I'd divide the total prize money by the number of participants. In the example given, the "present value" would be $50,000 / 100 for an expectation of $500.
These days the casinos offer similar competitions but they will have (literally) thousands of entrants,
The severely misleading part is in the the invitation - that will say something to the effect " ... guaranteed prize pool is based on 400 entrants" That provision means that they can reduce the amount of the prizes awarded, BUT it is intended to strongly imply that that is the maximum number of entrants to the tournament, OR that the prize pool will increase proportionally to the size of the field. Nothing could be farther than the truth.
Some of these invitational events are actually worth as little as $10 to the patron. What the patron sees is not the "fine print" - but the 36 point banner advertising the 5 or 6 figure Prize Pool.
Think about it !
I've never understood the value in the comps. If I'm winning $200, I can afford the $20 dinner, and the casino is paying for it (i.e., I'm buying it with my winnings). If I'm down $200, I probably don't have enough comps to buy me anything, and I don't need the temptation of "a little more play to get my comp." One book I read called playing for comps "playing under the influence," and I think he's right.
One casino review had the following ridiculous analysis:
"I played blackjack for two hours at an average bet of $100. My loss was about $800. When I was ready to leave, I hoped to get my $39 room comped. I was told my comp balance was $63.24, but it needed to be at least $65 to be applied towards a room. So, I went to the gift store and used my comp points for six bottles of wine and some cheap sunglasses.
The house edge under their blackjack rules is 0.54%, with correct basic strategy. Assuming 60 hands per hour, which is an industry average, my expected loss was 2 60 $100 0.0054 = $64.80. So it was almost like gambling for free."
This guy concludes he was "gambling for free," when he actually paid $800 for 6 bottles of wine and some cheap sunglasses. If he won $800, the comps might be a nifty bonus. But he could still have bought the 6 bottles of wine and the cheap sunglasses with the casino's money. Instead he lost $800 and called it "gambling for free."
I've been victimized by this. Had an offer a year ago for 3 nights and $1,000 Macy's Card from Palace Station. when I check-in i go to VIP to get Macy's card and was told that it's based on play. So I say, OK fine, how much play and the guy tells me it depends on the machine because each machine has a different theoretical. I say well, give me a ballpark amount of Video Poker play that I'll need and he tells me that he can't do it but that if I play it on Video Poker instead of reel slots it will take much more play. So again I ask, OK if I play nickel multi-line slots how long and he tells me, it will take forever on nickel slots. Then I ask about blackjack and he tells me an absurd amount of hours at an absurd average bet and then proceeds to tell me that if I miss their goal, which they won't tell me precisely what it is, that I don't get the card. It's all or nothing and they won't tell me what the "all" is.
I decided that the whole invite was simply a trap to force a lot of play and then give the casino an open option to decide, after the fact, based on whether you've been lucky or unlucky or played their preferred choice of games with a high house edge whether to give you the card, despite the fact that the actual mailer says that you got the $1,000 Macy's card just for showing up based on your past play as a good customer. I decided to just stiff them and not play a penny.
The wife and myself went to the canery east a couple months ago. After leaving or should I say handing the waiter in cash for the tip we paid the meal with a debit card.The charge on my card was about four dollars more than my ticket total.had I not noticed it on my bank statement I would have never known.After several calls to the resturant, I was told that it just happens some time by the manager.I dont think the casino really needs my four bucks,at the same time what does happen some time mean?
spock, why don't you pay cash for your meal? I think having 15 dollars or so handy shouldn't be a big problem to avoid such debit-card investigation hassle.....
Get the coins clanging.Every thing will be OK. HERSH!
to my biggest dismay, I would like to mention this ridiculous RESORT AMENITY FEE, introduced and consequently implemented by Boyd Gaming and Station Casinos. They advertise cheap rooms, and I must admit, the room rates sounds fair, even if everybody knows that in the U.S. they add some ridiculous fees, taxes, and such. OK, 10 per cent on top of the advertised room rate would be still ok. But wait a minute, then they come up with addional extra fees !!!! Some casinos, such as Red Rock or Aliante are advertising rooms, starting at 59.95 usd per night, plus tax, during the week. And then, after all taxes has been added, they also ad this ridiculous RESORT AMENITY FEE, PLUS TAXES ON TOP OF THAT FEE, making it everything but a cool deal!!! 59.95 turns into 90 dollars easily. And this is funny or what????
Well, I am not discussing the tipping attitude that's somewhat "normal" in Vegas. This seems to be part of the American life, although exactly this nation is in deep financial trouble and should find away out of it fast. However, this resort fee shid should stop. it's a rip-off, it's unfair, and it keeps people from booking room at Station Casinos. I will definetely noot book any room unless they cancel this silly promotion. There are many other resorts in Vegas that do not follow such semi-steal thiefery system.
From Switzerland